Himatsingka Seide Limited (HIMATSEIDE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Himatsingka Seide Limited Q4 FY '21 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Batlivala & Karani Securities India Private Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Prerna Jhunjhunwala from Batlivala & Karani Securities India Private Limited. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.

Thank you, Stephen. Good evening, everyone. On behalf of B&K Securities, I would like to welcome you all for 2Q FY '21 post results -- for 4Q FY '21 and full year FY '21 post results conference call of Himatsingka Seide Limited. From the company, we have with us the senior management, including Mr. Shrikant Himatsingka, Managing Director and CEO; Mr. K. P. Rangaraj, President, Finance and Group CFO; and Mr. Dilip Panjwani, Senior Vice President and CFO, Strategic Finance. I would now like to hand over the call to Mr. K. P. Rangaraj for the initial comments. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Prerna. Good afternoon, good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I hope you and your families are staying safe and doing fine. On behalf of the company, we would like to welcome you to this earnings call for Q4 FY '21 and the full year FY '21 results. As always, I will start off with a business update, followed by an update on the consolidated financial statements and which will also take you through the debt profile of the company. And after that, I will hand you over to the Q&A session to our Managing Director and CEO, Mr. Shrikant Himatsingka. I'll now start off with a business update. As you're all aware, FY '21 has been one of the most challenging fiscals to navigate. While we were severely impacted during FY '21 on account of the lockdowns, COVID-19-led disruptions, regulatory uncertainty and raw material inflation, we were pleased with our operating performance during H2 FY '21 on account of better capacity utilizations and order books. The demand for home textile products continues to be strong across segments and markets. We see a strong order book for FY '22. The capacity utilization levels at our Bedding and Terry Towel facilities increased in the quarter ended March, and expect it to continue to improve in FY '22 on the back of strong order books. The capacity utilization levels for our manufacturing facilities during Q4 FY '21 is as follows: Sheeting division clocked 76% capacity utilization in Q4 versus 71% capacity utilization in Q3. Terry Towel division clocked 63% capacity utilization in Q4 versus 45% capacity utilization in the quarter ended December '20. The Spinning division continued with 101% capacity utilization and pretty much the same in Q3. During the quarter, revenue streams from brands stood at INR 565 crores versus INR 385 crores during the quarter -- Q4 FY '20, the previous year, and INR 551 crores during the previous quarter. I will now move on to an update on the consolidated financial performance for the quarter ended March '21. The consolidated total income for the Q4 FY '21 stood at INR 748.04 crores versus INR 471.40 crores in Q4 FY '20, the previous year, an increase of 58.7% on a year-on-year basis and -- versus INR 681.65 crores in the previous quarter, which translates to an increase of 9.7% quarter-on-quarter. This growth was driven by the enhanced capacity utilization at the Sheeting and the Terry Towel facilities. However, please note the financial results for the quarter, Q4 FY '21, does not include any recognition of export incentives under the RoDTEP scheme, which is effective from 1st of January 2021, as the rates for the same are yet to be notified. The RoDTEP scheme, as you're all aware, has replaced the RoSCTL and the MEIS schemes for export incentives. Therefore, Q4 FY '21 consolidated revenues and operating performance are not comparable to the other quarters in the light of the above. Consolidated EBITDA for Q4 FY '21 was INR 129.66 crores versus INR 96.60 crores in the Q4 FY '20, which is the previous year, an increase of 34.2%. EBITDA margin stood at 17.3% in Q4 FY '21, compared to 20.5% in the previous year. The consolidated PAT for Q4 FY '21 was INR 37.57 crores versus a loss of INR 68.84 crores in the previous year. So I'll now move on to the yearly financial performance on the consolidated financial results. Consolidated total income for FY '21 stood at INR 2,272.53 crores versus INR 2,419.65 crores in the previous year, which is a decline of 6.08%. The consolidated total income and operating performance have been impacted for FY '21 on account of the following: one, lockdown restrictions imposed during the first quarter of the fiscal; #2, major COVID-led disruptions witnessed during Q2 FY '21; and as I already explained earlier, Q4 revenues have been impacted on account of the nonrecognition of export incentives on the RoDTEP -- under the RoDTEP scheme as the rates of the same are yet to be notified. The fourth -- the last point is the inflation in raw material prices and imposition of import duty and levies on cotton -- on raw cotton. Consolidated EBITDA for FY '21 stood at INR 303.17 crores versus INR 479.31 crores in the previous year, which is a decline of 36.7%. EBITDA margin was 13.3%, as compared to 19.8% in the previous year. The consolidated PAT for the full year ended March '21 stood at a loss of INR 53.35 crores versus a profit of INR 13.25 crores in the previous fiscal. I now move on to the debt profile. The consolidated gross debt as of 31st of March '21 stood at INR 2,467 crores compared to INR 2,814 crores at the end of the previous fiscal, which translates to a reduction of INR 348 crores. The total term debt stood at INR 1,613 crores, and the total working capital debt stood at INR 836 crores. The cash and cash equivalents stood at INR 144 crores at the end of March '21.

Mr. Rangaraj?

Hello?

Yes, sir. We can hear you. Please proceed.

We will continue to be focused on deleveraging our balance sheet going forward. With this, I would like to complete my update. We will be happy to take on your questions now. I would now request our Managing Director, Mr. Shrikant Himatsingka, to address the Q&A session. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you very much, Ranga.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of A.M. Lodha from Sanmati Consultants.

Hello, Mr. Himatsingka -- Hello?

Can you take the phone off speaker, please? Your voice is not clearly audible.

Hello? Now it is audible, sir?

Yes. Please go ahead.

My first question is, sir, just I wanted to know whether company is fully integrated for its yarn requirement.

It's partially integrated for its yarn requirement, and we partially buy requirements from third-parties.

And how much, sir, can you tell me the percentage-wise?

We are -- our internal capacities are adequate for approximately -- hold on -- is approximately 35% to 40% of our requirements at this moment.

35% to 40% you are buying from the market?

35% to 40% is what we produce internally by weight. The rest we buy from the market.

Remaining, you are procuring from the market?

That's right.

Then my second question, sir, what capacity the Terry Towel plant is running?

As stated by the group CFO, during the fourth quarter of this fiscal, it operated at a utilization level of 63%, sir.

My -- the last question. Sir, are we planning for the capacity expansion of the Sheeting and for Terry Towel [indiscernible] by putting the balancing equipment there?

Yes, we have the ability to debottleneck our facilities and enhance our capacities organically as and when the need arises. So Sheeting can expand further at very marginal capital expenditure requirements and so can Terry Towel. So while we are operating at 76% and 63%, respectively, and we expect the utilization levels to continue to rise in this FY '22. As we also said, we see pretty robust demand for our products during the next fiscal. Should the need arise, we will consider organic debottlenecking our capacities and enhance the same if required.

The next question is from the line of Resham Jain from DSP Investment Managers.

Yes. So I have 3 questions. So first is this incentive. What was the impact if we assume quarter 3 numbers in terms of the incentive rates? What would have been the impact in quarter 4 in terms of rupees crores?

The exact number, Resham, would depend on certain product mix and things like that. But it would in the region of INR 35 crores to INR 40 crores.

Okay. Understood, sir. Sir, my second question on -- generally, we are seeing inflationary environment across raw material and also in terms of logistic costs and a lot of other things. And at the same time, we are seeing good demand and better utilization levels. So is there any trade-off between these 2 going into FY '22? Some of these inflationary headwinds can be mitigated by better utilization, operating leverage. If you can just share your thoughts around this.

Yes. So other than RoDTEP, the Q4 has also been impacted by raw material inflation, both at the raw cotton level and at yarn levels, along with other raw material inputs that are used along the value chain. It's not normal to see these levels of inflation. Of course, on a weighted average basis, a lot of it was absorbed. But the inflation has been present starting the middle of Q3. And growth will help, obviously, offset the impacts of inflation, as will superior product mix, price increases. And I think all these 3 factors acting in confluence will help mitigate the impact. In addition, at some point, the inflationary movements have to abate and correct. So I think all these 4 pieces put together will make sure that things are handled in terms of managing the impact of inflation. There could be some timing difference between quarters in handling inflation. But directionally, I think there should not be a material issue. And since growth is one of the important factors that will make sure that the inflation is dealt with, the strong order books help that cause. So I think we remain reasonably confident of addressing a substantial portion of the inflationary impact going forward.

Understood, sir. And sir, my last and the final question is on -- you mentioned about very good order book in FY '22. Any number if you can share, broad range, in terms of what kind of growth? Because FY '20 also got impacted. FY '19, we saw our peak revenue. And on that base, what kind of broad range of growth should one expect in FY '22? Yes, that's it from my side.

So that's a tough one, Resham, because we don't give guidances. But under the circumstances, it's fair that we gave a little more clarity as to what one could expect. So when I -- when we use the term strong order books, we see them to be buoyant, not only because of the enhanced demand for soft home products, but also more specifically because of the various new products that we have launched across our Bedding and Bath verticals. And we've seen a good reception across markets. So I think both the factors, that is general demand for soft home products as well as more specifically our efforts in furthering our market share. Both these factors will act in confluence to make sure revenues sort of go north. Now coming to how much north, obviously, we wouldn't like to put a finger on it, but it will be safe to assume 2 things: A, it will progressively increase during the fiscal '22; and b, we should be doing better than annualized run rates of Q4.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Raj Nahar from [ Mili ] Consultant.

My question is regarding the yarn capacity. As you mentioned, it is 35% to 40%. So currently, the yarn market has been very strong. And whether are you able to -- first is that to buy the required quantity and whether we are able to pass the increased cost of yarn. And second, is there any thought process on enhancing the spinning capacity more?

Raj-ji, if I may answer both of your questions. There is no issue on the supply of yarn as such, so -- while there are supply chain disruptions, inter-state movements are hampered from time to time and inward logistics are hampered for imported cotton and things like that. There are supply chain disruptions, but those are being handled and have -- we have made sure that there's no material disruption to the business at this point. So supply chain disruptions exist, but the supply is very much continued. So that is to your question about are we able to procure the required yarn under the circumstances, the answer is yes. The second part of your question is, so how do we plan to mitigate the yarn price increases. The answer to that is the company will have a 3- to 4-pronged approach. There is -- there will be the growth in revenues that will help us mitigate some of this impact. There will be some price increases, superior product mix amongst the 3 most important parts or pieces that will help address this issue. We are also realigning our supply chains to be able to mitigate some of these impacts. However, we don't see any increase in spinning capacity in the near future to mitigate this impact. We will contemplate enhancing spinning capacities given our large captive consumptions going forward, but nothing in the near future.

The next question is from the line of Rishikesh Oza from RoboCapital.

Just one question from my side. Could you please share an outlook for the EBITDA margins going ahead in FY '22 given this increase in raw material prices?

It's a difficult one, Rishi, but I think our normal EBITDA percentages are somewhere in the range of 20% to 22%, in that range. There -- I think we will see a little correction in those margins for the full year given the inflationary impacts, but we should be able to keep them range bound with a progressively better performance during the entire fiscal. So in other words, in the near term, there could be -- the impact could be slightly exaggerated. But as our price increase will kick in and the inflation settles down, progressively, we will catch up with the margins. And as a whole, maybe we should be closer to the lower end of the band than we normally achieve.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Devang Patel from NAFA Asset Management.

Sir, if I look at the difference between the consol and the stand-alone numbers, at the PBT level, this quarter, the number has turned from negative to positive. Could you explain what has changed and if this is sustainable?

Yes, fair question. We have been attempting to better manage our global sort of value chain and balance it a little better, Devang. So this is a result of that. Maybe don't go exactly by this quarter, but you're right, the balancing between stand-alone and consol will be better than is normally the case. So directionally, this is here to stay. The quantum might decrease a little to balance it out. But yes, directionally, this is where we are headed, to better manage our value chain. But I would urge you only to look at the consol numbers and not stand-alone and consol separately.

Okay. Sir, and on the debottlenecking in the next phase, how much time would it take to debottleneck? And when would you consider that decision?

We can debottleneck our capacities in 6 months from when we hit the button, as I said. So we will watch this demand pattern for the near term and then take our call. We have some -- since we have some capacities in hand, we'll wait for a little more time. But post that, if this continues, as I said, for very marginal organic capital expenditure, we will debottleneck our capacities.

So you would consider that sometime later this year?

I think it's a good time to revisit the question at the end of the next quarter or so, or first half rather.

The next question is from the line of Vibha Batra from FairConnect.

Yes. My question is mainly on top line growth. So FY '21 was exceptionally low. Sir, the base itself is low. So if you were to imply -- if you were to just calculate, as you said, on quarterly, you will expect similar growth trend. Can we expect 25% to 30% growth on an annual basis for this financial year?

As I said, ma'am, we hope to do better than the annualized run rate of Q4. It might unfold progressively during the fiscal, but as a fiscal -- at a -- as a fiscal as a whole, that's what we plan to achieve. I mean that's where we are headed towards -- to the -- subject to, of course, any extremities and unforeseen circumstances that might come our way on account of COVID or the third wave or things like that. That apart, this is where we seem to be headed.

So in percentage terms, I calculate, for example, March '21 growth over December '20 and then impute the percentages or year-on-year?

No. Just look at the Q4 FY '21. And as I said, we hope to do better than the annualized run rate of Q4 FY '21. So -- yes.

Fair enough. Okay. So then also, we are expecting our operating...

Although I'd like to remind everyone that I did use the term "progressively," so there could be timing decreases between quarters. But as a whole fiscal, that's where we are headed.

Fair enough. And where do we see our return on capital employed based? It's in single digits if you were to see now. And we are...

So obviously, FY '21, ma'am, is not the best fiscal to judge our capital efficiency. But as stated, we'd like to achieve capital efficiencies in the region of 17%, 18%, ideally is what we target once our model stabilizes. Please note that our Terry Towel plant is a new facility. We've been ramping it up through these rather challenging times. And unfortunately, we have faced the regulatory uncertainty that you all are aware of, along with unprecedented levels of inflation. So that doesn't help in our model settling down. But we've taken the mitigation measures as outlined. And hopefully, with that, directionally, we'll continue to improve our ROCE. I'd also like to say that the return on capital employed not only should be adjusted for payables, but I don't know how most analysts look at it, but because of the change in accounting standards, there are 2 buckets that have enhanced the size of the balance sheet, not just for us, but any company that has the following. Any duty benefits availed of in the purchase of imported machinery will now be sitting in our balance sheet as government grants. And the second change has come through in the form of the right to use of lease liabilities that sit on the balance sheet as well. The reason I'm pointing this out is that it depresses the ROCE number because of the fact that it sits in the denominator. So I don't know how most houses are dealing with it, but this is a result of an accounting standard change that has been introduced probably a year ago or something of that nature. And as far as our balance sheet is concerned, it has inflated or enhanced, not inflated is the wrong number, it enhanced the balance sheet capital employed by over INR 400 crores because of the recent...

How much of this [indiscernible] on the account of government grant?

And right of use, which you will see in our...

I think right of use is said to be included in the capital to compute ROCE [indiscernible] together. So I guess if you can...

Yes, right. So whether it's fair or unfair is a separate subject. The reason I'm giving you prior notice is that it's different than a departure from what existed. And therefore, I don't know how you would like to compute it, but I'm just bringing this to your attention and context to it having a depressive influence on the number.

Yes, yes. I appreciate this. And this -- this incentive, how long will it take, in your estimate, for government to finalize it?

Ma'am, unfortunately, I have no clarity on the subject other than what any of you read in the media. So per media statements, the government should be announcing it shortly. But whether they do or not remains to be seen.

Okay. So then you will have an exceptional gain also for January to March quarter, and whatever is going forward, that will reflect in our numbers whenever it comes?

Per the current view and -- yes, that's how it should be. Do keep in mind that the inflation will also be very heightened during this time, probably more than Q1, because by the time timing -- by the time price increases kick in and so on, we are already in the end of May. So while you will have some exceptional gains, you might have some enhanced impacts on account of these factors as well.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Prerna Jhunjhunwala from B&K Securities.

Yes. Am I audible now?

Yes, ma'am, you are.

Yes.

Congratulations on a good set of numbers. So in your earlier comments, you mentioned that FY '22 is going to experience superior product mix. So could you please enhance on that comment? What kind of changes you're seeing on the demand perspective as well as in what context we can see this happening in FY '22?

Well, I mentioned it as -- Himatsingka has had a superior product mix in its revenue streams. So that will help us mitigate some of the inflationary impact. I didn't mean that our product mix will improve further from here. I just meant that it's a good thing to have in our arsenal to be able to fight inflation. And superior product mix definition would also include the fact that a substantial part of our revenue streams do come from brands. So to that extent, we might be helped in managing inflation. That's what I really meant.

Okay, okay. And sir, with -- in the U.S., we're seeing good consumer demand coming in. Do we see the brand performing much better than low-value products, which we saw in FY '20 as an industry -- FY '21 as an industry? We saw demand for low products to be heightened due to pandemic times, et cetera. But going forward, do we see that brands will outperform against...

A lot of our brands are mass brands. In fact, they all are. And it's good for us that the demand is broad-based. It's good for us that -- it's good for us and in general as well that it's not just the high-priced products that move because bulk of Himatsingka's products are catering to broader audiences. So when I say superior product mix, that doesn't necessarily mean high-priced product mix. It can mean better-priced, lower-end product as well. So I think the demand pull is across price points. And it's not focused just on the better or the lower price points. We see demand being strong across price points. So it's holistic, it's broad-based, which is good.

That sounds great, sir. That's very helpful. Sir, second question is on debt. We've seen substantial improvement on your debt profile. What can we expect for FY '22 and '23 going forward?

So as we have shared with you earlier, major CapEx has anywhere been concluded. We are now on organic CapEx mode. And we will continue to be focused on deleveraging our balance sheet on the one hand and enhancing EBITDA on the other. So they will have a clear impact on our leverage ratios going forward. So I think in -- during FY '22, we'll continue to see debt reducing. There could be timing difference between quarters, but as a financial year as a whole, you should see debt correct. I guess it would be safe to assume that we would expect correction in -- of up to INR 200 crores or thereabouts.

Okay. That sounds interesting. And my last question would be on European Union. You had entered into a tie-up with Disney. Could you help us with any progress on the European Union traction?

Yes. We did forge an alliance with Disney for the distribution of soft home products in the EMEA region; the Europe, Middle East and African regions. And we should see progress on that front in FY '22 as well. It's an important addition to our brand portfolio. It helps broad base our reach. It strengthens our juvenile portfolio. And there's a lot of exciting things going on in that space as well. So we should see -- so that should also be a contributor to the growth that we envisage during '22.

The next question is from the line of Anurag Jain from Green Lantern Capital.

Congratulations on a decent set of numbers in challenging times. So one question which I had was that with this China Plus strategy becoming more and more visible and we, at the same time, over the last few years, have significantly enhanced our gross book, we are ready with our world class capacities. So are we seeing significant increase in inquiries and more number of customers talking to us? And would we see significant traction on that front in the next couple of years?

I would imagine, yes. So the traction, as we see it, Anurag, is being witnessed for the following reasons: a, Himatsingka has broad-based its product mix with the launch of its new Terry Towel plant and has entered several subsegments in both its Sheeting and Towel segments. And we are reaching out to a broader client audience globally, and that is giving us some mileage. So that's one reason that we're seeing growth. The second is there's a general buoyancy of soft home products globally. And then there's a third piece, which is to do with geopolitical reasons that are driving demand shifts. And that's been witnessed over the last year or so. You're right in your observation that the intensity of the demand shifts are more, let's say, pronounced over the last few months. So it will -- as we see it, it will be a contributor to the strong demand over the next few years that we are seeing. This will be one of the reasons that cause such movement. I would caution you, though, that these things can also reverse should there be issues with Indian supply chains of any material nature. These things can also reverse. But at this point, we see it as a positive factor that will drive demand going forward.

Okay. Got that. Got that. So one last question from my side. This was on the business model itself, so right from spinning till the brands, we are present across the board, in bed linens, sheeting and the towels. So the question -- hello? Am I audible?

Yes, it's in Bedding and Bath products.

Yes. So the question was -- and I was going through the annual report, and we were working with big brands and very high-end cotton products and stuff like that. What I wanted to understand was, again, in terms of margins, in terms of resilience of the business, in terms of return ratios, being such a huge vertical integration, what are your thoughts there? I mean are we up to full potential of the business model that we've built or there is no scope to do margins, return ratios?

No. So let me give you a broad -- just a broad overview. Please don't hold me to specific numbers because assumptions change from time to time and underlying sort of drivers change from time to time. But I think, to your question of what is the potential vis-a-vis, what our investments are and what we have made so far, so there is -- there's a fair bit of upside for the seeds that we have sown thus far. We have capacities to be tapped in Sheeting and in Terry. And we have some organic debottlenecking that we will sort of put through as demand -- as we close in on full capacities. There's also scope to enhance capacities beyond the debottlenecking at marginal CapEx rates. So I think our Home Textile Solutions portfolio has a fair amount of upside from here, both on top line and on the EBITDA front. And with the continuing deleveraging focus, given the fact that we have completed our major CapEx, it will also automatically drive focus on capital efficiency. So someone recently -- someone just asked me the question about ROCE. So I think we will look at trying to deliver 17%, 18% ROCE, ideally speaking, on the capital that we employ. And the industry is stable. There are entry barriers that exist. They're not -- they're only 2, 3 players -- 3 players with large integrated capacities in this field at this point. And so it's not easy to set up capacities. It's time-consuming and it's capital-intensive and so on. So given those entry barriers, given the fact that there's a fair amount of upside that's still left, given the fact that we operate an entirely integrated model on a B2B basis and Himatsingka truly has world-class assets, we have demonstrated the fact that we have led the pack, I would say, in most years in terms of EBITDA profile and things like that. So given all those things, there's a fair amount of fuel that is left on the table. And that's what we are now focused on [ setting ].

The next question is from the line of Pratiksha Daftari from Aequitas Investment Consultancy.

Sir, just a couple of questions. If you could just tell us, what are the key drivers for our growth expectation for the next year or the order book that we have? That's my first question. And secondly, I wanted to understand that do we have any maintenance CapEx plan and what would be the content?

So drivers will be -- so -- I mean let's just go through this from a standpoint of logical sequencing. The most important growth driver is the end consumer and the consumption that's sort of being witnessed across markets. So that's where it emanates from. That is robust at this point. The second important factor is that one must be well entrenched in global markets, which means our client reach must be strong, which exists because that's required to tap into that consumption that's taking place at the point of sale. If these 2 factors are aligned, then you need the right products and brands to offer to these clients who will in turn offer to the end consumer, which is also in line. We believe we have probably the best brand portfolio in the industry and a very, very versatile range of products, both in our Sheeting vertical and in our Towel vertical. Our Spinning vertical is largely captive, as I said earlier, so that doesn't count. Himatsingka also leads the industry in capability solutions in the cotton space, which is very important for the millennial consumer and new age retailers as they realign and relook at their offerings to audiences. Once we have the right offering and the brands and the right product versatility, what's important is global-scale manufacturing capabilities and scale, which is something we've put together over the last few years. And the important thing is focus on execution and the ability to actually execute this demand, which is something that's currently underway. The last few quarters have been volatile. There is no denying that. But if you look at our track record in -- through '15, '16, '17, '18, '19 and probably the first half of FY '20, we've consistently grown our top line and our EBITDAs during this period. The volatility that we witnessed was really during the second half of FY '20 right through to the end of first half of FY '21. And then we saw sort of coming back to stability during the second half of '21. So I think the worst period of volatility is over for Himatsingka. There could be some near-term pressures on inflation of raw material, but that won't disturb our model as such. And we are poised to now harness the benefits of the seeds we have sown over the years, to realize true potential of our model and of our assets. So this is -- these are the growth drivers, ma'am, that will help going forward. And I'm sorry. What was the second part of your question?

Maintenance CapEx, sir.

So maintenance CapEx, as we've shared earlier with stakeholders, probably in the range of INR 70 crores, INR 80 crores, somewhere there -- INR 60 crores to INR 80 crores in a year. Could be more in some years, could be less in some. That's where it would average out.

And just one last question -- you're saying something, sorry sir.

So it works out to approximately 3% of net block and 2%, 2.5% of gross block.

Okay. And I just want to confirm this, you said the debt reduction target would be about INR 200 crores in FY '22, right?

Yes, approximately. That's right. Subject to volatility and unforeseen circumstances that might crop up during the year on account of COVID. I'd like to qualify it for that. So if there are such movements during the year that are extreme, these targets could change accordingly.

I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Shrikant Himatsingka for closing comments. Over to you, sir.

So thank you all so much for taking the time today. I hope I've been able to answer most of your queries and questions. We are available any time to take you through more questions and queries should you have any. Do feel free to reach out to us, and we'll make sure we'll address your questions. Thank you very much again, and do stay safe. Bye.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Batlivala & Karani Securities, that concludes this conference. We thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.