Hong Kong Exchanges and Clearing Limited (0388.HK) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to HKEX 2024 Interim Results Analyst Presentation. Today, we are very pleased to have our Chief Executive Officer, Ms. Bonnie Y. Chan, and our Group CFO and Co-COO, Ms. Vanessa Lau. Bonnie and Vanessa will first give a presentation about our business and strategy, then we are very happy to take some of your questions. With no further ado, over to you, Bonnie.

Thank you. and good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. I hope you have been enjoying the summer so far. I'm very pleased to be presenting our interim results for 2024 for the first time. In a few moments, Vanessa Lau, our Chief Financial Officer and Co-Chief Operating Officer, will share more details on the numbers. After that, I will discuss some of our business highlights. So let's kick off with a quick overview of the results. HKEX had a robust first half of 2024, with the second quarter seeing an upswing in market momentum and trading activity. While half yearly results remained steady, revenue and other income and profit, both reached second quarter highs. Headline revenue and other income increased 8% year-on-year and 4% quarter-on-quarter in the second quarter of 2024. Profit attributable to shareholders increased 9% year-on-year and 6% quarter-on-quarter during the same period. I will let Vanessa talk through these numbers in more detail shortly. But first, I'd like to highlight that the first half of 2024 marked significant strategic progress for HKEX. We introduced a range of initiatives that build on Our China Strength, enhance market vibrancy and future-proof our business with technology. Highlights included new enhancements to Swap Connect; the relaxation of ETF eligibility criteria on the Swap Connect which took effect in July; the introduction of the Self-Match Prevention service in the securities market; the implementation of revised listing rules relating to treasury shares; the launch of a consultation on reducing minimum spreads for equities, REITs and equity warrants; the announcement of the implementation of severe weather trading, which is scheduled for the 23rd of September this year; and the announcement of our in-house development of the Orion Derivatives Platform. All of these contribute to making our markets more competitive, and they also reinforce Hong Kong as a leading financial center. At the same time, we continue to strengthen our partnerships internationally and in Mainland China. We have added the Abu Dhabi Securities Exchange and the Dubai financial market has recognized stock exchanges. And we signed an MOU with the Shanxi government. Despite a challenging macroeconomic environment with sustained high interest rates, trading activities improved considerably in the second quarter of 2024. Cash market volumes for the first half were down 4% compared with the year earlier, but increased by 17% from the second half of 2023. As you can see from the chart, our diversification strategy continues to pay off. We saw an exceptionally strong performance across the Hong Kong derivatives, ETP and commodities market. Our ETP market in the first half of 2024 reached a record half year high, with average daily turnover up 4% year-on-year. We also saw a record high half yearly average daily volume of 1.5 million derivatives contracts, up 12% year-on-year. Our commodities business delivered strong results, with LME average daily volumes in the second quarter hitting a 10-year high. In the first half of 2024, volumes were up 29% compared with last year, and open interest increased by 14% year-on-year. Revenue from our data and connectivity business was up 3% year-on-year. So market settlement will continue to be affected by macroeconomic and geopolitical factors, we remain cautiously optimistic about the year ahead. I will discuss our core business strengths, our diversification efforts and our most important strategic initiatives in more detail shortly. But first, let me hand over to Vanessa to go through the results. Over to you, Vanessa.

Thank you, Bonnie. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining our call today. I'm Vanessa Lau, and I'm pleased to share with you highlights of our 2024 first half financial results. HKEX continued to show strength and resilience, despite a challenging macroeconomic backdrop and sustained high interest rate environment. Trading activities in the cash market improved considerably in Q2, and Headline ADT reached HKD 121.6 billion, 18% higher than Q2 2023 and 22% higher than Q1 2024. Q2 total revenue and other income of HKD 5.4 billion and profit of HKD 3.2 billion, both reached record second quarter high, driven by strong volumes across the cash, derivatives and commodities markets. Profit after tax of HKD 3.2 billion and earnings per share of HKD 2.49, were both up 9% against Q2 2023. Although Headline ADT in the first half was 4% lower than the first half last year, revenue and other income of HKD 10.6 billion was comparable with first half last year. The group's derivatives and commodities markets continued to grow and performed strongly in the first half, offsetting the weak softness of the cash market. Notably, the number of derivatives contracts traded reached a record half yearly high and LME volumes registered a healthy growth, with chargeable ADV in Q2 reaching a 10-year quarterly high and chargeable ADV of the first half up 29% against the first half last year. For the first half of 2024, profit after tax was HKD 6.1 billion and earnings per share was HKD 4.84, down 3% against first half last year. The Board has declared a 2024 first interim dividend of HKD 4.36 per share, representing a 90% payout ratio. Turning to the next page where we focus on the detailed financials for Q2 2024. Total revenue was up 4% against Q1, reflecting higher trading and clearing fees from a 22% increase in Headline ADT and 11% increase in LME chargeable ADV, and seasonal increase in depository fees. This was partly offset by the decrease in corporate fund net investment income from lower gains in the external portfolio. Operating expenses were down 2% due to the nonrecurring retirement benefits paid to senior management in Q1 and the partial recovery of legal fees in Q2 from the 2022 LME nickel incident. As a result, profit after tax was up 6% against Q1. Next, we look at first half 2024 financials against the prior year. Headline ADT was down 4% versus prior year due to the strong cash market in Q1 2023. Our diversification strategy in recent years continues to pay off, with derivatives trading volumes reaching record highs and commodities market performing strongly. In particular, stock options, RMB currency futures and Hang Seng TECH Index Futures were the major contributors to the growth in the derivatives market. LME volumes have continued its growth trajectory since Q4 last year, with chargeable ADV up 29% from the first half 2023. Northbound Stock Connect trading volumes also saw a record half yearly high. Total revenue and other income of the first half was comparable with the first half last year, benefiting from higher trading and clearing fees from increased LME volume and fee increment implemented since the beginning of this year and record derivatives volumes. These were offset by lower cash market trading and clearing fees, lower net investment income from reduced margin fund size and lower listing fees from fewer newly listed derivative warrants and CBBCs. OpEx was up by 7%, reflecting our continuous investment in talent, infrastructure and operational excellence. Net profit was down 3%, a robust performance against a strong cash market in Q1 2023. Moving on to look at the trend line. You can see that we continue to follow the general upward trend of the last few years for both revenue and profit, with 2024 first half results consistent with long-term trend levels. Despite the lower Headline cash market ADT in the first half, the impact was offset by the growth in derivatives and commodities markets. HKEX continues to maintain an attractive EBITDA margin, reflecting the successful diversification of our business in recent years and our continued cost discipline. Next, we take a look at our investment income. Net investment income comprises of internally managed corporate funds, margin and clearing house funds and an actively managed external portfolio. Total net investment income in the first half was 6% lower than the first half last year, mainly due to lower margin fund size as a result of lower margin requirements. The lower return of Hong Kong margin funds was partly due to a higher proportion of Japanese yen collateral posted by our clearing participants. The external portfolio recorded fair value gains of HKD 233 million in the first half, 8% higher than the first half last year, reflecting the improved performance of equities and fixed income markets. Lastly, let's look at our operating expenses. OpEx was up 7% in the first half compared with first half last year, reflecting inflationary increases and our continued investments in existing and new talent, infrastructure, customer and operational excellence. The increase was partly offset by the recovery of legal fees from the 2022 LME nickel incident. To summarize, despite a challenging macroeconomic backdrop, HKEX' core business continues to show remarkable strength and resilience. The increasingly diverse business continues to perform well. We are very confident that HKEX remains well placed to capitalize on Hong Kong's unique role as a super connector and on our unrivaled China advantage, and we will continue to work closely with our partners and stakeholders to strengthen the attractiveness and competitiveness of our markets. With that, I'll now hand back to Bonnie for our business and strategic update.

Thank you, Vanessa. As I mentioned earlier, the results for the first half of 2024 were consistent with those of the previous year, reflecting our continued resilience and relevance as well as the success of our diversification strategy and focused strategic development. Average daily turnover volume in the cash market was down in the first half from a year earlier. But as you can see from the slide here, it has been increasing from the end of last year into the second quarter. Our IPO pipeline remains robust with around 100 applications. In the first half of 2024, we had 30 IPOs raising HKD 13.4 billion, including the first listing under Chapter 18-C and the first GEM listing after our reforms. Looking at the second quarter, the IPO market saw a significant uptick. There was a 50% increase in listings and 79% increase in funds raised compared to the previous quarter. At the same time, our diversification strategy helped mitigate lower cash market volumes with record volume in the commodities, derivatives and ETP markets. The record volumes reflect a wider selection of products in the ecosystem as well as sustained demand for risk management instruments in times of market volatility. Furthermore, OTC Clear achieved a record half yearly clearing volume of nearly USD 500 billion, an almost 190% increase from the previous year. The average daily turnover on the Swap Connect in June 2024 more than quadrupled since its launch in May 2023. The Connect programs also performed well. Stock Connect trading recorded solid growth in the first half of 2024, with Northbound and Southbound average daily volume increasing 19% and 11%, respectively, compared with the same period in 2023. This growth was mainly driven by the expansion of eligible stocks in March last year. Average daily turnover for Southbound and Northbound ETFs was at HKD 1.5 billion and RMB 1.1 billion, respectively, with Northbound volumes reaching a new half yearly record. We also announced the expansion of ETFs in Stock Connect, which took effect in July. This enhancement reflects HKEX' ongoing commitment to broaden the Connect product ecosystem for global investors, further enhancing the competitiveness of Hong Kong as a leading global financial center. Now looking more closely at derivatives and commodities. As I mentioned earlier, there was a record number of derivatives contracts traded. LME volumes also showed healthy growth, with chargeable average daily volumes in the second quarter reaching a 10-year high. Our fixed income and currency development is also on a positive trajectory. The USD CNH Futures contract has seen continued growth since the second half of 2023. Average daily volumes in the first half of 2024 were nearly 6x that of the first half of 2023. Other key products such as Hang Seng TECH Index Options and MSCI India U.S. Dollar Index Futures set daily trading records during the first half. All currency futures and options contracts have been included in derivatives holiday trading since March. This helps investors manage foreign exchange risk during Hong Kong holidays, which reduces friction and adds to Hong Kong's attractiveness as an international financial center. Moving on, I'd like to touch on the various strategic milestones we passed in the first half of 2024. We continued leveraging our China strength, enhancing the Connect programs. We made significant enhancements to our connectivity, our trading structure and our product offerings. We announced the inclusion of REITs and Stock Connect and made enhancements to Swap Connect. We announced the relaxation of the ETF eligibility criteria for stock exchange, further enhancing the investment choice for Connect investors. The treasury shares listing rules amendments took effect in June, giving issuers greater flexibility in managing the capital structure through share buybacks and resale of treasury shares. We continue to support the liquidity and vibrancy of our market. To this end, we'll be implementing Severe Weather Trading in September. Part of ongoing plans to make Hong Kong's markets more attractive and competitive to investors, while also bringing HKEX in line with global peers. We are currently consulting the market for feedback regarding the reduction of minimum spreads in the Hong Kong securities market with an aim to boosting liquidity and lowering overall transaction costs. Looking ahead, we're very focused also on exploring adjacent businesses to enhance our one-stop offering to clients. We hope to be able to announce something in that respect in the coming months, so watch this space. Finally, we continue to future-proof our business and operations. A key example is the announcement of the development of the Orion Derivatives Platform. This will enhance investors' trading experience and provide a proprietary derivatives platform to address rapidly evolving time needs. To wrap up, HKEX produced robust results in the first half of 2024. We also made significant progress in our strategic diversification. Looking ahead, we expect the uncertainties of the macro landscape to persist and continue to shape market sentiment. However, we remain cautiously optimistic about the rest of 2024. Moreover, we are confident in the resilience of our business and our ability to capture the medium- to long-term opportunities, which remain significant. The derivatives market is going from strength to strength. We are confident that recently launched products and the strength in currency future contracts will continue to drive growth. Our Connect programs continue to perform well, with Northbound Stock Connect, Bond Connect and Swap Connect seeing record half yearly volumes. We expect the 5 measures announced by CSRC in April to continue providing positive momentum to the Hong Kong market. We are also making prudent targeted investment in talent, technology, client and risk management, supporting the long-term success and sustainable development of the business. It has been 5 months since I assumed the role of CEO, and I'm very excited for what the future has to offer. HKEX will continue to work closely with our partners and stakeholders to continuously enhance our market infrastructure, expand our product and partnerships and future-proof our business. Thank you very much. We're now happy to take your questions.

Bonnie and Vanessa, now we are open for questions. So operator, I know we already have quite a few questions lined up either by on the line, also by webcast. Why don't we go straight to the questions on the line first? Operator, over to you.

[Operator Instructions] First question comes from Gary Lam of HSBC.

Bonnie, Vanessa and Ricky, we get light energy that Bonnie is bringing to the market, initiating a lot of initiatives around. Two questions, both related to the China angle. If I may, firstly, with reference to IPO CSRC announcements, one of the initiatives to support the Southbound Stock Connect for RMB-denominated stocks. Shall we expect this to progress, let's say, within the rest of 2024? Just thinking alongside with U.S. rate cuts, stronger RMB and potentially Alibaba primary listing in Hong Kong, would it become sort of like a policy package or a development package that would be more powerful to drive the market revival -- revive the market? Second question, if I may, is with reference to the onshore A share market average daily turnover, which declined more materially in the recent 1.5 months, maybe around 25% below 12-month moving average. Now what's your interpretation of the change there? And in what way should we expect this to pose a risk to Hong Kong exchange revenue, for example, through Southbound, Northbound? And in what way do we see this maybe as an opportunity that's more of sort of investment actions, decisions or executions will be done in the Hong Kong platform relative to the Mainland as they maybe tighten on some of the areas around?

Thank you, Gary. Two questions. Your first one, I think to answer that question, first of all, as you have also alluded to and I've mentioned at the beginning, we are seeing very encouraging uptick in terms of Southbound flow. In fact, just to recite the figure, in the first half of 2024, Southbound average daily volume has increased 11% compared with the same period in 2023. So your first question relates to the RMB Counter. I think if we consider this in the context of already a pretty strong Southbound flow, I could only imagine that with the introduction of the Southbound RMB Counter, it will make it easier -- even easier for Mainland investors to take advantage of the Stock Connect and invest in Hong Kong listed securities. So that should be a positive thing. As regards to timing since the announcement, which came out in April, it's 1 of the 5 measures in the CSRC announcement, we have been very focused in terms of implementation. So we are working very closely with our Mainland counterparties to get the execution going. It obviously involves adjustments in the system. So it will take some time. But suffice to say that we're making very good progress on it. To your second question about the trading volume on the onshore Asia market, it's very difficult for me to speculate the reasons of the recent volume. However, again, going back to my point about the uptick in Southbound flow, that has stayed very solid in the past few months. I think there are various reasons behind that flow. The often cited ones are that a lot of Mainland investors are taking advantage of the Stock Connect platform really to treasure hunt in Hong Kong, and they are especially fond of high-yielding stocks in terms of dividend. That's one explanation of the phenomenon. I -- personally, I think that there is enough strong fundamentals to sustain good and solid activities in both markets. But if I focus on the Hong Kong market, I certainly would love to expand more resources and focus to continuously improve our Connect franchise. If we prove to be a very convenient and effective venue for Mainland investors to diversify their investments and invest offshore, I think that's certainly one of the main objective of having the Stock Connect franchise. So we'll continue to work on it. Thank you, Gary.

Thank you, Bonnie. Operator, next question, please?

Next question comes from the line of Richard Xu of Morgan Stanley.

Two questions for me. On the derivatives, I think Vanessa mentioned a lot of initiatives that drive -- that's been driving that impressive growth, other initiatives or efforts in the pipeline. And if we're looking ahead 2 to 3 years, which area will probably we're going to see more growth or new initiatives to drive the revenue growth over the next couple of years? Second question for me is, I don't know if there's any new initiatives that you've been discussing with CSRC or other policy makers in terms of supporting the Southbound? The volume has been quite strong and -- but any other initiatives, for example, on the retail side, encouraging more retail investors or other regional expansion for this Southbound volumes?

Thank you, Richard, for your question. Your first question relates to derivatives. Yes, we're very happy to see the strong momentum because it's very much our strategic diversification strategy. And over time, we see derivatives obviously contributing to a bigger portion of our group revenue. At the moment, it is about 29%. So there is, over time, you can see the pickup. Now in terms of the product suite, again, we're very encouraged by the progress we've made, and it spans a very diverse product universe from, obviously, products like flagship Hang Seng TECH Futures and Options, MSCI China, A50, Connect, MSCI Suite, all of which short-dated index option, which is a pretty recent introduction, RMB currency futures, the list goes on. And I think -- what I can say to answer your question is that this will remain a strategic focus on our part. I think it is very much core to our diversification strategy. It does provide some sort of counterbalance when the cash market is showing softness. So I think you can continue to watch this space as we keep an eye on investor appetite and what really their demands are in terms of products that they want to use to diversify as well as risk manage. And on that, I can also ask Vanessa to supplement.

Yes. So on the derivatives, Bonnie talked a lot about the new products. But I would also draw attention to the microstructure enhancements that we have rolled out over the last few years. And even this year, with Self-Match Prevention in the cash market in March and then the derivatives market earlier this month, it's responding to participant demand and hopefully bring more efficiency to the market. And of course, back a couple of years ago, when we launched derivatives holiday trading, that also makes a lot of sense for participants and improves our volumes. So a lot that's happening in the derivatives space on both products and microstructure enhancements, and this will continue.

Yes. And to your second question, sorry, your line was a little soft just now, but I -- if I'm not mistaken, you are asking about sort of besides the CSRC initiatives, what else can we expect in terms of sort of driving volume? And I will say a few things. So first of all, as you know, we are celebrating the 10th anniversary of the Connect franchise this year. And there has been a constant dialogue between us and our Mainland counterparties to continuously expand the Connect franchise. And you look -- we look at it from a few different perspectives. First of all, obviously, inclusion of more products, right? So as you can see in the CSRC announcement, there is now the upcoming inclusion of REITs into the Connect franchise, right? This is on top of stocks, bonds, ETF swaps, which have been added over time. We are also working on a lot of enhancements on the micro infrastructure angle. So also in the package is the RMB Counter for Southbound trading that comes towards more the structural side of things. You alluded to investor eligibility, and I know that, that's a subject of a lot of discussion in the market. And I think quite a few groups of stakeholders have suggested that maybe we should try and lobby for some relaxation in terms of investor eligibility. Currently, the focus has been more on the retail side, right? So bringing more retail investors from the Mainland to invest in our markets through the Connect franchise. I would say that when we look into the issue, we focus beyond that. I think it's not just getting more retail investors. But perhaps we should also do more analysis in terms of what other pockets and types of investors from the Mainland we can potentially introduce and include in Southbound trading, noting that obviously the market in the Mainland, it's also getting more sophisticated. And over time, you'll see additional pockets of investors beyond just retail. So that's my answer to your question.

Thank you, Bonnie. Next question will be on the line are already here. So I have two questions. One, how should we think about the volume and revenue impact of tech size change and by when? Second, how are the shifts in program trading rules impacting volumes, especially for Northbound?

Thank you for the question. I will perhaps answer the potential impact of volume on the reduction of minimum spreads and Vanessa can chime in on the cost implication. As I mentioned earlier, we're currently consulting the market for feedback regarding the reduction of minimum spreads. This was done as part of our overall initiative to find measures to boost liquidity. And we do believe, as we explained pretty thoroughly in the consultation paper that by reducing the spreads in the thoughtful manner, we should -- that should result in a positive momentum in terms of driving up liquidity. So the consultation period is still open. It's early days, but we have received, I would say, broadly supportive feedback. So as and when we have received all the market feedback, we're going to analyze it. But let me pause and let Vanessa comment and I'll come back to your question about program trading.

Sure. Thanks, Bonnie. I think the consultation on reducing ticket size is a very interesting development for the market. Having a smaller ticket size should facilitate the market prices of those liquid but more spread constrained stocks to better reflect the market conditions and lower the overall transaction costs. And this is the key to the whole initiative. Lowering the transaction cost should therefore encourage trading activities and also facilitate more efficient price discovery and trade matching. So ultimately, it should benefit market liquidity. And hence, it was one of the key measures included in the liquidity task force work that was done earlier. It's difficult for us to pinpoint exactly how much additional revenue will come from this. But as we said earlier, all the initiatives and microstructure enhancements that we do will boost market liquidity and therefore, will boost revenue over the longer term.

Right. So coming back to your question about program trading, now first of all, the final implementation rules have yet to be announced by the Mainland exchanges. But it's very important to bear in mind that for the Stock Connect platform, we always follow the home market rules. It's an overarching principle, and therefore, Northbound trading will follow the practices of Asian market, right, while Southbound, obviously follows the Hong Kong market practices. And therefore, I think it's a little too early for us to assess impact because we are still waiting for the [indiscernible] loose on program trading to come out. But as our usual practice, we'll definitely keep the market informed as and when we have further -- we are aware of further developments. But I also want to sort of make it very clear that because of the home market rule principle, the arrangement for the Hong Kong side, the Hong Kong securities market, including Southbound trading, is not going to change. And so I guess for international investors preferring to continue investing in Hong Kong. And obviously, in Hong Kong, we house a lot of Chinese stocks -- Chinese concept stocks as well. They will continue to be able to trade with the same level of familiarity and consistency as before.

Thank you, Bonnie and Vanessa. Next question -- next two questions are also coming on the line are already here. First one, what is the sustainability of the ADT trend that we saw in Q2? I think it was more about a month of May that has driven the rise in ADT, but July was weaker compared to Q2. Any comments on this, please? The second question is around any guidance on the cost growth.

Thank you. I'll answer the first question and Vanessa can address the second one. So that talks about the ebbs and flow of the market, as I call it. Obviously, we were very pleased to see the uptick of volume, especially in the month of April and May with May being a total standout. We did -- ADT hit HKD 140 billion for that month. So it's a very encouraging sign. Now obviously, global markets broadly are still experiencing a lot of headwinds because of many factors, macroeconomics, high interest rates, geopolitical concerns and all that. And so I would say that the relative softness that we've seen in the more recent 2 months, it's a reflection of all those elements in play. But I do want to focus on sort of what we saw in months with May -- the month of May which is that market vibrancy can also return very swiftly when the conditions are present. So for sure, capital markets will go through those cycles. And I mean it's natural ebb and flow. But what I feel I am encouraged about is that the current activity we've seen in the market actually demonstrated strong interest still among global investors on the Hong Kong market. In fact, I'll perhaps digress a little bit to point out something which I feel that did not come through too much, which is the fact that in the recent months, you would have picked up probably that there has been a lot of follow-on fundraising activities conducted by Hong Kong listed companies. And these are rather big deals. We're talking about, for example, Alibaba doing a $5 billion convertible bond deal. Lenovo, I think, just announced a $2 billion CB offering to a Middle Eastern fund. There are other names in the same bucket, JD, [indiscernible] , Trip.com, et cetera. And I've looked into a few of them, and I was very pleased to note that in many of these deals, actually, the take-up from international investors are pretty healthy. And therefore, while I understand there is always a focus on the ADT, we always have to go back to the primary market and to look at follow-on volume, which is, to me, a very good indicator of investor interest for the right company, the quality ones is still able to do a pretty sizable fund offering -- fundraising offerings. And I just want to make sure that I also share with you that perspective. And that may sort of give you a more wholesome picture.

On your question on OpEx or cost growth, the way we manage costs is more over a longer term trend rather than any single quarter because, as you can imagine, in a particular quarter, there could always be some one-off items. If you look at our cost trend over the last few years, it has been demonstrating pretty good cost discipline in that our EBITDA margin has been consistently in a very attractive range and above a lot of our peers. So our focus in our cost investment in the coming years will continue to be in two particular areas in talent and also in IT infrastructure. And these two are very important to help us continue to deliver on our strategic initiatives. So that's how we think about our approach to cost management.

Thank you, Bonnie and Vanessa. Operator, next question from the line, please.

The next question comes from Gurpreet Sahi from Goldman Sachs.

Really two questions. First is, on the weekly options for the Hang Seng TECH Index. So can you -- which you are supposed to happen early September. So can we check Hang Seng Index and then HCI has this weekly index option introduction, so how much of the volumes they are getting as a percent of the bigger contract? And so -- normal contracts. So with weekly option expiry, how much do we see -- can we expect this Hang Seng TECH Index options to go up by? And then second is, maybe I didn't catch it through the early answer, like Southbound Dual Counter. This was introduced -- sorry, the Dual Counter was introduced a year ago with the objective that this will reduce the cost for Southbound, et cetera. But still Southbound does not have access. So what is the holdup here?

Thank you, Gurpreet. Sorry, the line was a little soft, but I think your first question relates to the weekly options that we have freshly or recently launched. I think we detected a trend. People are asking or investors are asking for shorter-dated options and therefore, I think it's part of our ongoing product development. We certainly want to make sure that we continue to create products, which fits investors' appetite and demand. I think it's still too early to -- I think the jury is still out into how that product is going to pan out in terms of volume on a sustained basis. And as you know, with these new products, we usually do need to experience a period where we drive up interest and all that. So I will keep an eye. And I think as we go further into sort of this development cycle, we will be able to share more informative data points. Your second question, I think, relates to the southbound RMB Counter. So this was 1 of the 5 measures announced by the CSRC on April 19. And it's -- I think I answered a question earlier. It's a good development. And certainly, I think, coupled with the Southbound flow or the increased Southbound flow that we've seen over the last few months is certainly something which will hopefully give a lot of positive momentum and increase in volume in our market. With the inclusion -- with the creation of the Southbound RMB Counter, it actually involves quite a bit of system enhancement, which we need to work with our counterparties on the Mainland side to achieve. So the team has been in dialogue for quite some time. They have hatched out all the details. I can share with you that we are in the execution phase. And therefore, what we certainly would do our best to make it happen as quickly as possible. And when we are ready to share the next milestone, we'll definitely keep all of you informed.

Thank you, Bonnie ad Vanessa. So thank you. I think this marks the end of today's session. And thank you to everyone on the line for joining us today. So we hope to meet and speak with you again very soon. Have a good evening.