Howard Hughes Holdings Inc. (HHH) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everyone. I'm Jeff Elliot with Three Part Advisors. Thank you for joining us for Howard Hughes Holdings. HHH is the ticker. With us -- they are the premier developer of master-planned communities in the U.S. With us here today from the company, we have Carlos Olea. He's the Chief Financial Officer; and Eric Holcomb, Director of Investor Relations. With that, I'll just turn it over to Carlos.

Thank you, Jeff. Good morning, everybody. Privileged to be here. I love the trip to the IDEAS conference because we get to interact with all of you, and that's part of what makes the job a lot of fun. So I will do a presentation about what our company is. Some of you -- I recognize some faces. Some of you have seen this before. We'll talk about where we are now. We'll talk about some of the immediate plans, as there is a transformation going -- happening in our company very, very soon that I will go into some detail describing. And I'd like to leave as much time as possible for question and answer. We are a very different real estate company because -- well, it starts with a simple thing that is simple but impactful. We're not a real estate investment trust. So you'll see us use metrics like earnings before taxes and talk about tax planning and things of that nature that you would normally see in the REIT world because there are concepts that don't exist truly in the REIT world, but we're different in that sense. And that's only the first of many differences. And I hope to describe to you why are companies different and why it's an interesting opportunity potentially for U.S. and investors. Sure. You're familiar with the [ DLE ] statements. I'm not going to read them to you. I'm sure you don't want me read them to you, right? I think that is fine. We can skip them. So how does Howard Hughes operate? We operate in 4 business segments: Master Planned Communities, Strategic Developments, Operating Assets, and the Seaport. I will get to the Seaport in the end, but as some of you may know, we are spinning that off, and we're very heavily into the process, close to, hopefully, culmination of that later this year, we'll get into detail later. But why do we operate this in this way? Well, it's a very organic way of running our company in the sense that we build cities. That's the core of what we do is that we build cities. We're the only publicly traded company that has landholdings in the tens of thousands in acres and communities outside of metros with the right demographics and in the path of growth where we are literally taking land, putting infrastructure in the ground, designing neighborhoods, designing roads, designing parks and then building commercial, office, et cetera, for people to actually live and thrive in that community. So that in and of itself puts us way apart from the traditional real estate companies. And by the way, I come from the REIT world. I don't say anything about the REIT world is not meant to be pejorative in any way. The REITs, I believe, fill a really important role in the economy and I admire the companies that I worked for and many others, we're simply different. And part of why we're different is precisely from the very beginning, we build cities. We don't count our development opportunity in square feet, we count it in acres. And we not only counted in tens of thousands of acres. Our Strategic Developments segment is the part inside the company that you might say that is comparable to a merchant developer. These are the people that build vertically. In our lingo, Master Planned Communities build horizontally, strategic developments build vertically. So when Master Planned Communities, finished putting in the roads, the water, the electricity, the Internet, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, all of the infrastructure needed, you can start building up, the people from strategic development take over, built an office building, a retail building, as of late and multi-family building, which is where we're seeing a lot of growth, condominiums in Hawaii. This is a team that builds vertically. Once those buildings are ready for operation, they're transferred to the Operating Assets segment. This is a segment that can be compared to a traditional REIT. These are the folks that do property management, leasing, engineering because they run the buildings. So that segment, the third box is what's inside our company that you could compare to a REIT, and we use the same metrics to get for ease of reference for people that are familiar with REITs, we reported NOI and other metrics that are very familiar to people that follow REITs. Now the Seaport and I won't spend much time here because again, we'll talk about it later. The Seaport is almost a microcosm of all of the 3 segments located here in New York in the Seaport District. It's very different than unique, and that's part of why we're not part. That's really why we're spinning it off. It's different and unique from everything else we do, whereas in the Master Planned Communities, like I said, we think about in tens of thousands of acres in the Seaport, we do think about square feet. It's much, much, much smaller, particularly when you compare the scale of New York and Texas, New York and Nevada, New York and Arizona, where we have 37,000 acres super, very, very difficult to control a neighborhood in New York, but the scale is very different. It's a very different asset. And again, we'll get into it in more detail. But basically, when you think about [ tech ], how does Howard Hughes operate, this is it, this is how we're organized, horizontal, vertical and then operations. We have some stats, we all like our people numbers, right? So some highlights to the right. We have about 7 million of office, 2.5 million of retail, 6,000 multi-family units. I'm not going to read all of those to you. I will spend a moment telling you that where we see a lot of the growth in our communities right now is in multi-family. I'm sure it's no surprise to everybody that office is hard right now. Office is difficult, it has been since COVID. We do have some really successful office buildings that we've even put into place after COVID, and we'll talk about why that is successful inside of our communities in a further slide. But the fact that we create these communities that have all amenities that have great school systems, et cetera, draws a lot of people. Not all of them are ready to buy a home or the inventory for homes might not be at a point where they can afford a house, say, for example, in some of our most mature communities like the Woodlands or Columbia, Maryland. So multi-family has been the type of product where a lot of these people that want to live in our communities, want to have their kids in those school districts and have access to short commutes, et cetera, that's a product that they're looking for. So we're seeing a lot of growth in multi-family. However, across all asset classes inside of our communities, we are beating our markets. What do I mean by that? The Woodlands is north of Houston. Rent per square foot across all asset classes are higher in the Woodlands than in Houston. Absorption is faster in the Woodlands than in Houston. Vacancy is lower in the Woodlands than in Houston. And that happens in Summerlin of Southern Nevada as well. So in all of our markets because we create these communities that have all these amenities where people and companies want to be, we happen to outperform our markets. Now office is still office, and it's still hard, but the reality is that we do outperform the markets where we operate. And this is where we are. Houston: in Houston, we have 3 communities. The Woodlands is the biggest, most mature community that we have in the Houston area, more than 20,000 acres. Then Bridgeland is the second community that we have -- largest community that we have in the Houston area in growth mode right now, about to start its commercial core. The Woodlands sales is the small -- smaller -- the smallest of our communities. It Is north of the Woodlands, and it's largely residential. Las Vegas is -- Summerlin is right outside of Las Vegas in the path of growth with amazing views of the Red Rock Mountains and a really great quality of life. I'll skip Phoenix and come back to that for a moment. Maryland is the most mature of all of our communities. Maryland is one of the first master planned communities in the country. Some people say it's the second with [ Levittown ] being the first and then Columbia being the second, really and all that is kind of murky and hard to figure it out. But Maryland, Downtown Columbia is more than 60 years old and the Woodlands is celebrating its 50th anniversary this year. So those 2 communities are really the flagship communities that we have in our portfolio and the most mature communities that we have in our portfolio. And then Hawaii is very interesting for us because we have Ward Village, where we build vertically. You can't have 30,000 acres in Hawaii that just doesn't exist. So we are building a master planned community -- a vertical master planned community where we do this beautiful condominium towers that serve both the Asian market, the mainland market, but also importantly, the local market. There's a lot of -- housing is hard in Hawaii for any of you that follow housing in Hawaii. So this offering that we have is also very much sought after by the local market in Hawaii. Now getting back to Phoenix, this is our newest master planned community. 37,000 acres outside of Phoenix, Arizona, and Teravalis. We're starting development of the first village. We had our first land sales in the first village last quarter. A lot of interest, a lot of interest in that market from our homebuilder partners. Special to us because it's the first master planned community that we've started at Howard Hughes. And what do I mean by that? Well, we are lucky to be [ heirs ] to great companies that came before us. Columbia, Maryland was started by Jim Rouse from the Rouse Company. He was a visionary that created -- planned Columbia, Maryland and executed it. George Mitchell, famous oil man from the Houston area visited Columbia, liked what he saw, came back, started to assemble land and created what 50 years now -- 50 years later is the Woodlands, a fully fledged city on its own right, where more people commute from Houston to the Woodlands to work than from the Woodlands to Houston, every single day, which was one of his goals 50 years ago, sounded crazy, like how are you going to do that? You're 30 miles north of one of the biggest cities in the country. How is that going to happen? Well, it happens when you have a proper master plan and a lot of discipline and execution. And so for us, having Teravalis being the first one that we start. Well, we had the opportunity to learn from all of those that came before us, Howard Hughes himself. He started Summerlin. That's the reason why we are the Howard Hughes' company. Summerlin is Howard Hughes' maternal grandmother's name. And when he saw the potential for Las Vegas, he acquired the land around Summerlin. He didn't live to see it developed, but it was his vision that something would be developed. So we learned for all those visionaries for many, many, many decades. And now we get to apply everything into Teravalis, which is, again, our first one and our biggest one as well at 37,000 acres is about 33% bigger than the Woodlands. It is going to be our biggest community. Okay. So I've mentioned the master planning process and the amenities and all of that, but how does that work? What does that mean? Well, this is a very simple graphic of the process. Of course, it's a lot more complicated. And what you're seeing here is years and in some cases, decades of work. But how does it start, much like in Teravalis, it meant 37,000 acres, beautiful desert outside of Phoenix. What do you do first? We do the initial master planning. Where is the main road going to be? What is going to be the first community that you're going to develop? What are the lots for residential housing? What are the amenities going to be? What's the lot for school? What's the lot for hospital? What's the lot for Church, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It's really truly a master planning process where you're looking ahead, 30, 40, 50 years in planning for the entire community at the beginning, you're planning for 37,000 acres. When Teravalis is done, for example, we expect that it will be the size and with the population of St. Louis, Missouri. So we are building something that in 40 years will be equivalent to a very well-established city in the United States. It's a daunting task, but it's an exciting task. And we're the team that has the experience to do it, the only ones who are doing it as a public company. So you start with the master planning and then one you said, okay, much like in Teravalis, Floreo was the first village, say, "Well, this is going to be the first village". Well, what comes next, you'll start with infrastructure, literally cutting roads into the sand, big [ entrenches ] for power, for Internet, for water, et cetera, et cetera. Working with the local governments to make sure that we have all the permits and access and connections and all of that, that goes with it. Once you do that, which were closed in the first section of Floreo, which is why we sold land last quarter, we sell land to our homebuilding partners. And in this, if you follow homebuilders, all of the names you're familiar with. They work with us in our different communities and a lot of them are here in Teravalis as well. So we sell them land. We sell inventory. For us, that land is inventory, inventory for sale. And again, go back to our master plan, and we say, these are the lots that we're going to sell to homebuilders, these are the lots that we're going to retain. And if you remember the strategic development folks that I talked about to build vertically and we say this is the lot that we're going to retain. They maybe it is because they're going to build there. Maybe there's going to be an office, maybe there's is going to be retail, maybe there's going to be a multi-family. So it's all part of the planning. What is the land that we sell to homebuilders, for them to build homes. What is the land that we retain where we'll eventually build commercial amenities. So we sell land to our homebuilding partners, that does 2 things. Critically, it brings residents. And when they take the land and they build homes and they sell it to residents, then you start to have people, obviously, right? We said to have people moving to those homes and that starts to create the sense of community. We get to take those funds that we harvested from the sale, lands inventory sale, and we turn them into commercial amenities and other amenities for the city. We also have to invest. We have make sure that everyone of over our communities has also other amenities that are not necessarily those that we manage and are seen for profit but are necessary for people to want to live in the community like churches and schools, et cetera. Those are important as well. But we harvest that cash and then we convert it into commercial buildings, again, office, retail, multi-family. So if we were to grossly oversimplify our business model, you would see that it's actually very simple. On the right, we have cash proceeds from sale of inventory because that's what it is. Land is the inventory. Cash proceeds from sale of inventory, which result over time on the left on cash proceeds from recurring business, meaning leasing operations. That's all it is. Cash proceeds from sale of inventory on the right when we sell land, and we turn it into cash proceeds from recurring income from leasing. That's the business model. We keep doing it again and again and again. How we make sure that people want to move to our communities. That's the key, right? I mean I'm sure we all remember, we have seen from the past what happened in the crisis of the 80s, what happened in 2008, again. This goes down, right? A lot of people built a lot of homes and condos and what have you, all over the world, and some of them are completely empty. And why did that happen? Well, they got ahead of themselves, misread demand, whatever you want to call it. We are very disciplined in understanding how much inventory we can put out, so that we would never be in that situation. We never give the homebuilders more land that they can handle. One of the worst things in a building, if you have -- if you're familiar with rental operations, one of the worst thing in a building is to have empty spaces with the lights off. It drags down the interest and the value of your entire building. When you're building a city and one of the worst things you can have is homes with no residents. That just feels like a failure, and it's what we've seen elsewhere that becomes a failure over time. We never do that. We only sell when we see that the demand is there. We only give our homebuilding partners enough so they can maintain their pipeline, but not enough so that we fund ourselves with one homebuilder owning half of our land holdings, and then there's nothing we can do about it. If they go under or they have a problem. We never do that. We only -- we're very disciplined on how we distribute land. And then we also are very disciplined about making sure that our homebuilders are going to take care of where people live. We have to make sure that we fulfill everything else here on this [ world ] that you see on the right. But there's places where people can work, where they can play and in play, we have all sorts of cultural activities as well, concerts, art, et cetera, which is very important to us, learn then to have good universities and access to universities, community colleges, et cetera, in our communities. Of course, [ worship ] and growth is very important as well. When you put all of those factors together, now you have a community where people want to be. It happens over time, but you have to be disciplined with the execution of your plan as well. But if you do it right, like we believe we do, you create these communities where people want to live, where for example, as part because of the discipline in our master plan because of the thoughtfulness of the people that have been building our communities for decades in the Woodlands, which is 22,000 acres, roughly, the average commute is 7 minutes. So if any of you have been to the Houston region, a 7-minute commute, we achieve it in the Woodlands. We achieved something very similar in Columbia, Maryland, and we're going to achieve something very similar in Teravalis in due time as well. And we achieved in Summerlin. If you live and work in our communities, your quality of life gets significantly improved because of the thoughtfulness of the master plan. Of course, as a resident, you don't think about it that way, right? Just think like, oh, it's -- the grocery store is right there. My office is right there. Everything feels really close, everything feels really nearby, everything is really close and nearby and you find yourself with more time at the end of the day to do the things that you care about, your hobby, get healthy, go get work out, spend time with friends. But why is that? It is the discipline of a master plan that created it. It's not by coincidence that the commute is 7 minutes. It's very thoughtful. I'm going to start speeding up a little bit and getting into stats and I want you to have time for questions. Everything I said gets reflected here, Why has our NOI grown from $46 million to $252 million in 13 years, because we bring a lot of residents that take advantage of office, retail, et cetera, and it increases our multi-family. And then just look to the right, like that's the first. When I said that we start by selling land to homebuilders. Well, you can see there what's happened to the prices per acre, look at those sales, it's skyrocket because more and more people want to continue to live in our communities. There are some of the most sought after communities in the country. And so it gets reflected in the price per acre. When we look at this, this is one of our favorite slides because we took a point in time and we said, right, let's do this in 2017 before COVID and after. So in 2017, our inventory of land, not counting Phoenix, we hadn't bought Teravalis here. So those 37,000 acres that we're going to start as the first master planned community at Howard Hughes are not even in this slide yet, just excluding that. There's going to be a lot of value from there. [indiscernible]. In 2017, the value of our land holdings was $3.7 billion. Since then, we've sold $2.1 billion. And the value left is [ not ] $1.6 billion. $3.7 billion, you sell $2.1 billion, it should be $1.6 billion, right? No, the value is $4.1 billion. And why is that? Because the price per acre, you see the increases below, has far exceeded what we invested in infrastructure to a point that we are selling inventory, harvesting cash from it to develop our operating assets portfolio and the remaining inventories worth even more. Again, this doesn't happen if you don't have residents and companies and retail operators, et cetera, that want to be in our communities. And very important for us 2 years ago, we reached a milestone where our operating assets NOI, If you look at the first column, what we're talking about here is at the bottom is recurring income from leases, above it, inventory land sales, above it, inventory condo sales. You see it, look at the size of the bar chart, where as selling land and selling condos are very important, but that's inventory. It's finite. Even though we have a lot, it's finite, right? For the first time, 2 years ago, our recurring income was sufficient to cover our overhead and our interest expense. Why is that important? Because over time, the inventory cash flows will decrease. It's only logical, they're finite. And it is our job to make sure that the recurring income continues to grow. So that at some point, we're not funding development with sales of land. We're going to fund development with recurring income from existing leases. And it's also going to give us optionality to do other things, potentially pay down debt, potentially put out a permanent buyback program. It will get there because our NOI continues to grow, and that's part of our focus. But so far, already, let's say that hopefully not, we had another great crisis, and we couldn't sell land, we couldn't sell condos. We can keep our lights on with our recurring income. And it's only growing, which gives us, again, a lot of optionality in the coming years. Very quickly here, I'm not going to talk too much about it. You can see so much -- some of the stats of what we're doing right now. What you see on the right is simply an example with different asset classes and how we look at development cost per square foot versus NOI per square foot, how we think about where they should be. The only point that I'll make is that sometimes you see some -- there are some outliers in some of them. There are some outliers like, no, I don't know [indiscernible]. The grocery retail. What is that? That's the Whole Foods. You would say somebody could say, well, look, it's like so low and it's expensive and low. Why would you do that? How is that a good use of money? Well, we still think it's a very good use of money because if you live anywhere near a Whole Foods, particularly you have a family, that's important. People want to be close to a supermarket that they like the most. People want to be able to walk to a supermarket to run and be back in 5 minutes. So if you think about what that can do to price per acre around it for future home sales. When we think about what you can do to multi-family. I used to live in a multi-family many years ago that was on top of a supermarket, a different one, and they're [ funded ] incredibly convenient, it accrues to the value of the entire community. And that is also something that is different from us than many other real estate companies in that we're always thinking not just about the building that we're building, but what are the second and third order of magnitude effects of that building? Meaning what does it do to land around it? What does it do to those future residents? Does it attract them? Does it repel them? If it repels and it doesn't matter if it has a good yield, you're not going to build something to [ repose ] people. I assure you that we could make money by building a [ prison ], never going to do that. And we might, at first glance, not make a lot of money by building a Whole Foods, but when you take into account the impact that it's going to have, it is accretive. It is still the best risk-adjusted return, even though that project on its own doesn't appear to be. Okay. Last part before we get to Q&A to Seaport. Why are we spinning the Seaport? And what is the Seaport. Well, the Seaport is a historic district in New York City, Pier 17. And we are also going to include in the Seaport, 2 assets that we have in Vegas, Triple-A baseball stadium and a Triple-A baseball team. We are doing this because in 2019, we decided to focus on our core, that the best that this company could do is focus on what I've been describing to you, building this community, executing the master plan, growing our NOI pipeline. And we used to have a collection of assets all over the country, notably building in New York, in Chicago, I'm sorry, 110 North Wacker and I mentioned it's a beautiful, beautiful building. If you're in Chicago, we built that, but we only have one building in Chicago. That's it. No competitive advantage, no price per acre, no, nothing else that we could do. So we decided to focus on our core, dispose off that building, dispose off the holdings that we had. And last one is the Seaport. After this, we will only have Master Planned Communities. Our entire focus will be on executing the master plan in those communities that I've been talking about. And let's be honest, I mean, the Seaport has a concert venue, a baseball stadium, a lot of restaurants. It's a combination of retail experience, sponsorship business, entertainment, we build cities, and we're infrastructure people. We're development people, we're leasing people. A different management team with the right experience can make a lot more out of Seaport than we ever could. And we believe this is going to be accretive for both of us. Mathematically, it's going to be accretive to us right away, because we're going to get to trigger $120 million of operating losses, [ well ], the cash effect of operating losses inside the Seaport. And like I said before, we're a tax payer. So for us, making sure that we can shield ourselves from taxes as much as possible is very critical. When you look to the right, [indiscernible] our respective condominium sales this year and our expected land sales this year, we're going to be able to use the NOL and save significant taxes for this fiscal year and next. Lastly, announced up here, and then I'll open it up for questions. We've been very disciplined with our debt management and how we approach that and the position on the balance sheet. And so for 2024, we basically have no maturities because the maturity that you see there is related, except for $11 million is related to the condominium tower that we're going to close on. This one right here. And that gets [indiscernible] closing. So when we do the closing with the home buyers that are buying condos at the same time we will receive their cash, we pay this debt, so it's an immediate transaction. We really don't have maturities. And we're already working on the 2025 and 2026 maturities right now. Obviously, we're a lot more advanced in 2025. 2026 is a little hard to tell. I'm sure you saw just yesterday, the Fed said there's probably only one rate cut this year. So it's not the time to start working on 2026 maturities yet. There's a lot of planning that goes into it. But 2025, we're already very advanced. So a lot of discipline management of our debt paired with a really impressive, we believe landbank that, as I described to you, continues to appreciate in value and an NOI that is growing to the point where is covering overhead and beyond. In a nutshell, that's the Howard Hughes business. That's the opportunity of our company, any questions?

When is the spin-off happening?

The spin-off is very advanced. I can't give you a definitive answer because right now, it depends on the SEC more than anybody else, but as -- we expect that it will happen in Q3. Hopefully, the SEC gets back to us quickly and we can deliver on that.

[indiscernible]

Yes. So thank you for that question. As you see here on the left, we have a [ visual ]. The Seaport lost $55 million in 2023, and those were cash losses that we funded. $55 million is equivalent to the equity of a multi-family project in the Woodlands. So we're not only going to unlock the $120 million, yes, it's going to cost us to do the spin-off, but it's going to save us from having to fund these losses going forward. Now new management has a plan. I'm sure that if you follow the Seaport after the spin, you'll see that they're going to start executing their plan. The reality for us is that it was still generating losses. And those dollars would be better served by creating more product in our communities.

[indiscernible]

It's a little different than that. It's not mathematically driven, because it goes back to -- we need to make sure that we're building for demand. So we can always say like a REIT would have to because they need to pay dividend to the initial growing FFO that they have to grow NOI [ by X ], right? What we do is we deliver a product that fits in our communities. And so sometimes it might be a lot, in some years, it might not be much, but it is part of the plan. And what I'm showing you here is how our growth in the next 3 to 5 years and NOI is going to look. This is what we have largely under our control. The reason why I say that is because we're at $252 million, that $82 million is already -- it's in existing assets that are already in operation that we just need to finish the lease up on. And by the way, between the time when we put this slide together, which was 6 months ago, something like that, older, some say a year now, right?

Numbers.

Yes. This is 3 months ago. Thank you. Eric updates it, I don't know, I forgot. 3 months ago. Out of that $82 million in existing assets, more than half has already been accomplished. So that's just finishing leasing, right about $82 million that -- the next $24 million is projects that are under construction right now. Some of them have leasing, some of they don't. When they stabilize, they will also accrue to NOI. So just what we have in our pipeline already is going to take us $358 million. And this doesn't include a slew of speculative projects that we have in design ready to start when the conditions are right. This is only what's already on the ground either completed or in the works. So this is the best representation of how we grow our NOI. Yes, it's not mathematical, but it gives us a lot more certainty because this is what we can control.

[indiscernible]

That's right. That's right. Yes. And obviously, continue to grow. We see each other next year. Some of those projects right now are in design or just waiting for the right time might make it into this pipeline, but it continues to grow. And I'll end with one view that I think explains very well why I said that they'll continue to grow. This is our remaining inventory in each one of our communities and the years that we think is going to take to finish them. So if you can see that, if we look at Teravalis, we're talking about 2080. And even in a mature community like the Woodlands, we still have 716 acres of commercial. So if you come to visit us, which I invite you to do, it would be a pleasure to give you a tour and show you the Woodlands and show you Bridgeland, The Woodlands feels done. It was very much complete. 716 acres of some of our best commercial land, there's still a lot of opportunities for corporate relocations, for more multi-family. There would be a very significant accretive impact to NOI. And so this is why -- this is how we manage our inventory pipeline that then becomes NOI, becomes land sales, et cetera.

[indiscernible]

It's very rare. It's very rare. We say that Teravalis was once in a decade find. I don't know if it's once a decade, it might not even be. We're always looking for the next one, but it's hard to find. Now I'll be very brief here, if you think about it, what we need -- what Teravalis is, what we're interested in is more than 10,000 acres in the path of growth of Metro, great transportation, right demographics, entitled and assembled. Now the people that our partners in Teravalis spent more than 30 years entitling and assembling. It's hard to find, hard to find. Yes. We're out of time, but can we...

I just wondered if you could talk a little bit about Hawaii because it's certainly large than the Seaport.

Can you wrap it up quickly?

Yes. So Hawaii still has significant inventory ahead? And look, like the benefit of Hawaii, the set of the completed towers, the condominium market is like nothing we've ever seen before. That demand is there, the price per square foot continues to push forward. So we need to stay focused on continuing on our development, finishing and selling these towers under construction, much of them, as you can see, already sold out before they were even completed. And then we have the 2 best towers in the entire master plan left, that are going to start -- one is already in -- they're in presales already. We haven't even broken ground. They have significant presales. So the short of it is to continue developing the master plan, exhaust all our entitlements and then explore other opportunities to continue delivering this product on the island.

Well, thank you, everybody. I really appreciate your time, and good to see as always. Thank you.