HPL Electric & Power Limited (HPL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the HPL Electric & Power Limited Q2 FY '21 Results Conference call, hosted by Elara Securities Private Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Harshit Kapadia from Elara Securities Private Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thanks, Ayesha. A very good afternoon to everyone. On behalf of Elara Securities, we welcome you all for the Q2 FY '21 and H1 FY '21 conference call of HPL Electric & Power Limited. I take this opportunity to welcome the management of HP Electric & Power represented by Mr. Gautam Seth, Joint Manging Director. We will begin the call with a brief overview by the management, followed by a Q&A session. I will now hand over the call to Mr. Seth for his opening remarks. Over to you, sir.

Thank you, Harshit. Good afternoon, everyone, and a very warm welcome to all of you present on the call to discuss our financial results for Q2 and HY -- H1 FY '21. At the outset, I hope all of you and your loved ones are healthy and safe. After the subdued performance in the first quarter, primarily due to the nationwide lockdown, our company witnessed a sharp recovery during the second quarter. This recovery was majorly led by the stellar growth achieved in our consumer B2C segment, which includes revenue from the switchgear, lighting, wire and cables and nonutility meter categories. Our consumer segment witnessed a robust growth of 33% year-on-year to reach INR 145 crores in Q2 FY '21 as against INR 109 crores achieved in the corresponding quarter of last year. Excluding the sale of nonutility meters, the consumer segment stood at INR 134 crores, higher by 26% year-on-year compared to INR 106 crores in the Q2 of last year. The strong performance for the consumer business was driven by lifting of the lockdown restrictions, revival in the economy and consumer sentiments, ably supported by the company level initiatives such as expansion of dealer and retail network, refocusing on various customer segments and offering a wide range of quality products to consumers at various price points. Delivering a robust growth at a time like this validates our business model and our supply chain. Furthermore, it is a testimony to our strong relationship with the channel enjoyed by HPL in the consumer product categories due to our consistent product quality and technology. Coming now to our performance in the metering business. Metering operations continue to be disrupted as inspections and dispatches to utilities continue to be subdued even during the second quarter. As a result, revenue of the metering segment stood lower on year-on-year basis at INR 93 crores in Q2 FY '21. However, on a sequential basis, the revenue of the metering segment jumped by more than 2x versus INR 35 crores in Q1 FY '21. We readjusted well to the new reality by moving towards a leaner cost structure by rationalizing our employee costs and other operating overheads. The cost reduction initiatives enabled us to improve our EBITDA margins by 200 basis points year-on-year to 14.9% in Q2 FY '21 and keep our operating profitability intact at INR 34 crores. Our leverage and liquidity profile continues to remain comfortable. We have cleared all the interest and debt installment obligations that were due in H1. To give you an outlook for the second half of the year, at present, we have a robust order book of INR 335 crores, boosted by smart meter orders, which comprises over 1/3 of the total order book. This ensures us revenue visibility for the near term. Further, looking ahead, we expect the metering segment to perform better in the H2 as dispatches to utilities gradually pick up pace. Meanwhile, in the consumer segment, we expect to continue to see healthy traction in H2 FY '21 with the onset of the festive season and pickup in the consumer demand. Looking beyond the short-term challenges in meter segment, we are excited by the opportunities in the smart metering space, as both the public and private power distribution companies increasingly shift focus towards installing smart meters to replace conventional meters. We, as a company, remain fully geared up, both in terms of the product technology and capacity to capitalize on the enormous potential that the smart meters will offer going ahead. In fact, to further strengthen our product development capabilities, we have inaugurated a new state-of-the-art R&D center, employing a team of 200 engineers exclusively for smart meters, software development and other future technologies at our Gurugram facility. On the consumer business front, we continue to remain bullish on our long-term growth trajectory, led by product development efforts, network expansion and effective branding initiatives. On that positive note, I would request the operator to open the floor for Q&A. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Porinju Veliyath from Equity Intelligence India Private Limited.

Hello? Hello? Am I audible?

Yes, sir, you are audible, you can -- yes, sir.

Yes, sir, please.

Okay. Okay. I'm Porinju Veliyath from Cochin. I used to listen to the quarterly this calls every -- many times. But every time we hear the same thing now, every quarter call, we talk about 20% growth, 25% growth. And on optimistic note. But if you see last 10 years, I see this company is declining every year, since last 10 years. And I don't know it's -- even this stock price or the valuation shows that in 2016, the company payment to the IPO at INR 202 and INR 360 crores collected. And that INR 360 crores has come down to INR 50 crores, INR 60 crores now, I mean stock price from INR 202 to INR 30. So what is optimistic is only for the family. Now they are taking INR 8 crores, INR 10 crores salary every year, officially, I don't know, otherwise, how much. And shareholders' wealth is eroding every year. In 5 years, they managed to destroy wealth from INR 360 crores to INR 60 crores. So this is not acceptable. If the management has failed in creating wealth or reinventing in the challenging segments. And so that's very sad. How can we take salary like that for the family, INR 8 crores, INR 10 crores? I think for this kind of a working management should have INR 25,000 per month kind of salary. So this is not 1 year, 2 year, this is sustainably like that. So there is no reinventing of the things. Management is very incapable, it's very much proved. So why not just exit, so that the investors can create some wealth through some better management?

Okay.

It is the same from 10 years. Yes, this is not 1 year or 2 years, [Foreign Language]. Only the promoter family benefits and investors go continues to lose money since IPO. Wealth destruction is going on every year in the last 5 years since the IPO. So this is -- there is no justification for continuing like this. You should do -- say something. Now company has become almost sick and ready to go to NPL. And still [Foreign Language]. What is it?

Sir, sir, can I answer you there?

Yes.

Okay. Yes. Thank you for your question. Sir, let me just give you a brief overview. And there are many points, okay, you have stated it, suggestions are welcome. And I think that's what these calls are for, so that we also get a feedback on that. Regarding the share pricing, of course, I cannot comment on that. But on the business front, let me just run you through very briefly on the outlook and other things. If you see our last couple of calls, in the last 2 calls, I'm sure you might have heard them, we have been talking on the consumer business growing. And if you see in the last quarter, if you see even our projections for the next 2 to 3 quarters, what we have started giving, we are definitely seeing that growth coming in despite the COVID and the pandemic what has been going on. And if you see last quarter, 33% growth, even going ahead, we are seeing a...

INR 145 crore.

Yes hello, even going forward, we are seeing a double-digit growth coming into that. Now in the metering segment, of course, you mentioned on that. 2016 was a year, which was we had 2 big disruptions. One was as we did the IPO within the next 30, 40 days, we had the demonetization coming in. So that really brought down the market. It does affect us in a way. And then subsequently, then the GST implementation came in. While this was going on, the metering industry in 2016, if you see the entire -- there are official data where the industries -- the entire industry shrunk by over 30% to 40%. And that is where HPL being a leading metering player also, we shrunk on that in the -- in our sales. But thereafter, we did make a come back. Now again, what we are seeing is we are on the verge of a new -- a very big opportunity coming in. Today, even in our INR 272 crores of orders, over 1/3 of them are in smart meters. The inquiry base, what we look at today are more than even INR 2,000 crores or even going up to INR 3,000 crores, a bulk of them are today on the smart meters. And there are, again, very few companies, which are very well poised to take the opportunity. So in the past, those smart meters, there were a couple of tenders which came in. But if you go through the history, as a company, we were very clear that we will not participate in certain tenders due to their conditions, the payments what were attached with that. And if you see the majority of orders, which were given even with EESL and others, there have been companies which have been blacklisted, there have been big orders, which have been going to companies where not a single meter has been supplied by those people even in the 3 years or 4 years. So the market situation -- so we need to be very clear when we look at the industry, I think from a business point of view, we do know our -- the business, we do know our work. The smart meter for this company is a very big opportunity, but how to take it to bring it into a profitability, that is somewhere, I think that is best left to the company. We have not participated in tenders knowing the payment situations and others. Today, if you look at the tenders coming out from the same utilities are with much better terms, which are today conducive for companies like us to do business. And that is where we are putting our money today in that we see that the business will happen in a good way. This is on the metering front. On the consumer front, we have been confident. We are seeing the growth coming in, in the last quarter as well. Even in going forward, at least in the next 3 quarters, we have already said, even in the last call that, we will see a good business growing forward. I do agree with Porinju sir, that yes, in the last couple of years, there has been maybe some part growing, some part not growing. So overall, there has been some stagnancy. But overall, as a company, we are very strong. I don't know you mentioned about other things. Our debt equity ratio is 0.81. So I don't see where the -- these -- whether they are rumors or they are just probably expression of someone's personal views. But I frankly do not accept those because one has to go into the figures and go into the things. Regarding the director salaries and other things, on the -- from the lockdown also, there has been a 30% cut. There has been no increase in director salary from the last 4 years. And I think even the senior management, post the lockdown, has accepted cuts, which is very relevant when you see the other expenses and even the employee cost coming down. So overall as a company, we have turned around in the second quarter. And I would say going forward, we definitely see a much better growth coming in. And we are there to see growth coming in, in both the bigger segments of the company.

Anyway, so making excuses, and it's a challenging industry segment, I understand. So if you work in that kind of a thing you should have professional, capable management [Foreign Language] that you do not have it. You 3 family members running that sail, that is very evident. Somebody sees last 10 years of your working. Why not appoint a smart CEO who is capable of taking it up? Every company in the segment, consumer and electrical kind of thing, they have created so much wealth. Look at many of those companies, Havels take any of them the way they have created wealth, you destroyed wealth 10 years, others -- while others created wealth. Others became 10x and 20x, you made the client's money 1/10 from INR 202 to now INR 35, [Foreign Language]. So this is not 1 quarter, 2 quarter [Foreign Language]. You have been a failure. You have to accept that.

Sir [Foreign Language] today, if you look at our company, there are 40 to 50 senior professionals from -- who are running the show, there are 7 factories. They are not run by the family members. Each and every important function, whether it is R&D, whether it is sales, it is everything right from finance, account, everything are headed by senior people, they are senior people, all from the industry and other things. But anyway, I think your suggestion is taken. And definitely, one can contemplate on this. We are always open for learning and for improvement. So we'll definitely look at your suggestion, sir.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Viral Shah and Prabhudas Lilladher.

Hello? Sir, wishing you all a happy Diwali.

Yes. Thank you. Same to you.

To start with, sir, you had mentioned that there is a good amount of opportunity, which has been coming in metering segment. So could you elaborate more on to that? Whether from domestic and international as well, are we looking at or just only domestic? And in domestic, what kind of opportunities are we looking at in terms of smart metering division? And in terms of working capital as well because -- and thirdly, on competition in this segment?

Sorry, the last part I missed out?

On the competition on the segment in terms of metering?

Sure, sure, sure. Yes. So we have a -- so if you look at the smart meter opportunity, the government has been talking about putting 25 crore smart meters, and that's a huge opportunity, what is there. But if you see, this is not a just a claim by the government because internally -- because even our team has been involved with the government with even right from giving the feedbacks on the standards on how the whole thing has to be laid out. So there has been -- the government has been very proactive. One has to consider that the overall connections in India are estimated to be about 20 crores -- 28 crores connections, household connections. So practically, the government is talking about putting in smart meters across the country in the next 3 to 5 years. And I would say that this is pretty ambitious target. It is definitely a doable target. But what is this -- what helps us is that even after the lockdown, the examples what the state have has taken in has -- like they look at UP and others, what they have done. And certain learnings what they have got from this, the government is now really going for the smart meters. So when we look at the order inquiry today, if, let's say, we have seen over, let's say, 1.5 crores to 2 crores of meter tenders out, a lot of them, even at the state level are today, focusing on the smart meters. So -- but we are seeing a transition. So this transition from a normal electronic conventional meter to a smart meter may take -- it will take some time. We have said that in the last couple of calls as well. So it may take another 3 months, 6 months until the proper, the -- from the conventional, they are able to shift to the smart meters. But on the whole, when one looks at a 5 years, 10 years opportunity, it's a huge opportunity. And this opportunity is not only restricted to having the smart meters supplies, but also the subsequent management services, which are associated, which normally would go on for about 5 years with that. So that also has certain revenues, which a company can look at a continuous revenues coming in. So from a smart meter point of view, that is very good. Post the lockdown, the government, in fact, the minister and the -- even the government came out very strongly that in times of pandemic, when people are looking at faceless and contactless technologies, smart meter technologies are definitely much better. So I would believe that even in the last budget, a specific funding was given for the smart meters. So overall, this opportunity is -- seems to be there for a longer time and to come in. Also, what is good is that initially, when the government started looking at smart meters, we had a lot of companies coming in. The prequalifications were pretty open. So a couple of tenders went by where we chose to -- what I was just talking in the earlier answer, that we also chose to keep away in certain tenders where we thought that the terms were not conducive for a proper business for a long -- keeping a long-term in view and also on the payment side. So there, we have been very selective on that. But today, when we look at the way the tenders and the business is evolving, definitely, it appears that the -- in terms of margin, in terms of business, the smart meter opportunity seems to be good. Coming to the second part of your question where you talked about the working capital. The working capital in metering business is high. There's no doubt in that the debtor period -- in fact, post the lockdown, we have seen certain slow collections happening, but which is now gaining better strength because a lot of utilities, which were slow to start off, today are seeing the opening happening. Because eventually, the meters have to be installed in the -- at the consumer premises. So that has been slow. So overall, the segment has been a little slow starter, but we believe that will come back. But nevertheless, the debtor periods in the metering business are at 6 months. As of now, we would say once the smart meters are coming in, probably the same working capital cycle would be applicable for that until the government really comes out with some different way of funding these. But currently, as of now, the working capital in the smart meters would remain the same. In terms of competition, whenever there is a change in technology, we have seen a lot of new entrants come in. There is some kind of a disruption in the competitive scenario. But as we go forward, we see that to be -- it gets thinned down and becomes much more focused. Like if you recall, if you go back 10 years, 15 years, there have been over 40 players in metering, but in the last -- over a decade, the major competitors have been almost 4 to 5 who have been doing that. And that's been a pretty mature competition, I would say. In terms of -- in the shorter span of smart meters, which have come in, where it's been a learning experience for everybody, we have seen a couple of -- a lot of people came in, and a couple of Chinese companies are already -- have been blacklisted in this. But today, as we see the competitive scenario, again, it seems to be that there are few specific players with the strengths of technology and the complete back end services what can happen. So going forward, I would say the competitive scenario will also be much better. Maybe there could be 1 or 2 new entrants, which may eventually come in. And -- but I would say, looking at the way the business is structured, it will have to be a very effective competitor who would probably be matured enough to understand the eventual cost and realizations of the entire business. So overall, just to sum up my answer, I would say, yes, it's a smart meters is a big opportunity. Even the way the overall environment and the ecosystem what has played out in the last 3 years, I would say it has improved much better. So for us, today, to get into do the smart meter business in a big way, which we, of course, believe, we are very well placed in terms of product, quality, R&D, with the new R&D center opening up now. And with even the commercial terms being much more viable, definitely, we would see a much better business coming forth, yes.

Okay. Fair enough. Sir, you had mentioned in your opening remarks about cost rationalization measures, which we had been implemented in the first half of the fiscal. How much of this cost rationalization are sustainable?

Again, your last part was not clear. How much of the cost?

Cost rationalization measures which we had been taken [Technical Difficulty]

Viral, we couldn't hear you well. Your voice was breaking.

Hello? Am I audible now? Hello?

Yes, you can go ahead.

Yes. Sir, my question was, you had mentioned in your opening remarks in terms of cost rationalization measures being taken by us. So I wanted to have clarity, how much of -- what portion of that measures are sustainable going forward?

Yes. So just to give you a sense of the cost reduction, if you see in the second quarter because that was -- we had a 3 months, it was a full quarter, what we had. Although the revenues went down by 16.5%, the employee cost went down by almost 20.5%. And the other expenses, the overheads went down by 23.3%. So if you see this helped us to improve the EBITDA going up to 14.9%. Now when we look at these, there are -- what this lockdown taught us is that since we have on a zero based reviewed all our cost structures and even other things. So there are many costs which we don't see it coming back. So there have been -- plus, there are a lot of overheads, which we take like rents and a lot of other things, which were happening. We have either reduced them till March 31 or even many of them, things which are not required, we have reorganized them, just show that -- to make sure that we are able to bring down our costs here. I would say going forward, let's say, when you look at the employee cost, yes, there has been certain rollbacks from the 1st of October. But even certain rollbacks, what we have, are also linked to the performance incentives. They are performance linked incentives for all employees, whether they're in sales or even back end, production going up to everybody, including the directors. So what we are coming into a new culture where we are looking at the performance being a key force for the remunerations to happen. So this is one part. So we might find that certain part will be going back thereon. When you look at the other expenses, the majority reduction in the other expenses has been on 2 heads. One is on the traveling and conveyance. The other has been on advertising and business promotion. So as things will open, yes, certain traveling costs will come down, but we don't see because -- or rather, we have realized that we are able to do the same amount of business or even grow over 30% in certain businesses without having much of traveling to be done. So for the near future, a lot of these expenses will not be coming back. Also on advertising and business promotion, we -- even going up to the third quarter, we would see that to be -- that to remain low. But eventually, as -- especially because this is more related to the consumer business. So as the business is expected to grow up to double-digit in maybe in the fourth quarter or in the first quarter next year, yes, we will resume back certain advertising and other things. But maybe not coming back to the levels of pre-COVID level immediately. So we will be much more cautious. I feel a lot of new insights have already come in our cost structures, where we feel that maybe some things were not essential. They were happening, but maybe a thing like COVID has brought in certain disruption where we have reviewed and seen that what is relevant going forward, and I think that is what we are doing it.

The next question is from the line of Dhruv M. from HDFC Asset Management.

Yes, sir. Sir, one question on smart meters. What we understand is in the earlier stage of implementation of smart meters, one issue was that the state government or the discounts did not have back end infra for integrating these smart meters. So based on your ground level understanding, do you think this challenge is now sorted? And at least that issue is now resolved, at least across the major states like, say, Rajasthan and Tamil Nadu, Maharashtra, is that issue resolved?

No, the -- you must understand that the -- each individual utility has its own billing software. And whenever a smart meter is installed, so there has to be an integration of the head-end software along -- with the softwares of the utilities. So as a technology and as if you see, this process is well tried and tested. And this is possible. But yes, whenever, like in any company, wherever these type of integrations are happening, there are issues on implementation. There are -- while this is happening, but it is possible. So of course, one does require a good support and cooperation from the other side also to enable the integrations happening. But as far as the technologies are concerned, and even so sometimes before the tenders, there are pre-testing of these type of integrations. So it's possible. I don't think that's a big issue to be there. But yes, when you look at an all India level of rollout and especially for the first timers when a new technology is being implemented, which is totally software-driven, it has -- it needs an uptime of, let's say, 100% uptime and it involves that. Yes, these challenges are there, but they are -- they can be sorted out. I think the the manpower and the technologies are robust enough to do that, yes.

Yes. Sir, my question was more on -- I understand that these are technology issues and can be resorted out. My only point was, I mean, are they -- the -- what I used to understand was that the back end -- the states have not invested in the back end itself. So the first, they will have to invest in the back end and then the smart meter rollout can happen? Because I got to understand that these are prepay meters, so it has to be very live-based system that remains always 24/7 remains live? So what I was trying to understand have the majority of the states invested in the back end because once they have done, that will lead to a significant ramp-up in their ability to now procure meters?

No, I cannot comment for all the sales, but yes, wherever -- because units are learning, as I said earlier also, it's a transition happening. And today, if you see, it's not that every 100% of the states are immediately going for that. But yes, many states are working it. So while the tenders are being framed, once the -- that evaluation is happening, I'm sure people are aware that they also need to have those subsequent costs coming in because it's a onetime change. It's a change -- it's a change of the mindset also. It's a complete cultural change because eventually, post these implementations, one doesn't require the manpower to go and collect the data and other things. So one moves to a manless system of getting in the data. So yes, it's a change. I would believe that the states which are coming out with the tenders. Because the tenders are not just -- it does involve a couple of months of study evaluation with the vendors, with everybody. And that's how it's coming out. So I guess they are aware of what they need to do and to eventually make the whole thing go live, yes.

Got it. And sir, secondly was, say, for example, a state goes ahead with the back end infra and has done all the back end infra work and goes with a smart meter, say a smart meter supplier, A. Now can -- in the next tender -- I mean, is there a compulsion that he remains -- he will have to stick because of the technology issues, he will have to stick with A? Or he can -- in the tender process, there is a new supplier which can come in and can integrate it easily?

To the best of my knowledge, I think they can go for multiple vendors because most of the smart meters are anyway based on the international or the -- even the specifications under BIS approved in India. So however, number of meter manufacturers you'll have the specifications, typically, they have to fall within the same specifications. Although people might use a different route of the software and other things. But in terms of the integration, I would say that that's a flexible issue, yes.

Okay. So...

So that is what I believe that earlier -- because this has been discussed a couple of times because people is -- the utilities wanted the flexibility that they should be able to change in future or even while they are implementing with different vendors and not to be stuck with one vendor, proprietary software or something. So I would say, I think that has been well though of and rightly so. Because eventually, the government has to have its own platform where various vendors can integrate here.

Got it. The -- so basically, the idea is have a common platform and say, any vendors can integrate to that common platform. It will not be restricted platform?

Yes.

That is what the approach is?

Yes.

Okay. Got it. All right. That's helpful. Sir, one last 1 question is we have seen a decent improvement in your gross margins. So I mean is it because of some one-off benefits that we are getting because the raw material prices probably would be lower given the situation or part of this can sustain? So the gross margin is about 37%...

Yes, 37% from 34%. So if you see that, it's more because our material consumption is around 62.5% or so. So -- mainly it is more on the product mix, I would say, that we have been able to do that. And as such, if you see last quarter, the push on commodity costs and other things was not as high. Of course, right now in post October, we are seeing the copper increase in certain areas, which affects certain items. Of course, but these are all on the trade products where prices get eventually passed on. But otherwise, as such, in that quarter, we have not seen any big pressure on the commodities or the material costs, yes.

The next question is from the line of Rishith Shah from Dhanki Securities Private Limited.

Yes. Sir, just another question on the smart meter side. So you said, sir, there are currently around 1.5 crores to 2 crores meter tenders out there. So can you just expand on what are the current tenders or the coming tenders in the next 3 to 6 months?

Yes. As I said, there are almost over 2 crore number of meter tenders which are out. In terms of value, they can anywhere be around INR 2,000 crores or INR 2,500 crores. So in terms -- so there are -- so these are covering various utilities. So it's not 1 or 2 big tenders are there, but these are covering a lot of state level utility tenders as well as certain central utility tenders. Central is more the EESL tenders. So it's very well spread out. So it does shows that the inquiry and the level of interests are high from the utilities in procuring the meters. So of course, as we are in the transition stage, not all meters are in the -- from the smart meters, but yes, there are a couple of states, which have come out with the smart meter tenders. And some of them probably are still on the conventional type of meters, but we believe going forward, maybe in a few months or by next year, they will probably also start procuring the smart meters. As I said earlier, I'd just like to add that to shift to -- for any utility to study and then evaluate the smart meters, it requires a couple of months for them to do because they need to work on, understand the technologies, understand the feasibility in -- which may depend from state to state. So the circumstances or the situations may be a little different from state to state. So every state, rightly so is evaluating the smart meters. And of course, the central government is also pushing in a bigger way. So definitely, it makes sense for them to evaluate those technologies and move forward here.

Okay. So just a carry forward from that. So what would be our -- I mean, so within these tenders, what would be the tender that we would be bidding for, I mean? Yes.

So we would be -- as a large company, we bid for practically every tender which comes out. Because in terms of prequalification, in terms of technology adoption, I don't think there is any restrictive -- we have -- even in the past, we have seen any restriction coming out on the -- on that whether we need to participate until our team feels that, yes, we -- maybe the certain payment terms or certain clauses are such, which are not conducive for business. Only on those points, we may not participate. But otherwise, from a general demand point of view or looking at it, we participate almost in 100% of the tenders. Yes.

Right. And just a ballpark figure of what kind of success do you have in winning these bids? I mean, if there is an average ballpark figure that you can give?

Look, sir, based on our estimation and even certain last 2 reports, which have come out from credible market sources, we probably have a market share of maybe 22% to 24%. So I would say, even looking at the way these tenders are there, we would -- we are -- should be very confident to retain our market share. So that's what we will strive for. I mean I'm sure our teams are working on that.

Okay. And the last question, sir, what will be the current capacity utilization in the metering business?

So in the metering business, it should be about 60% right now.

The next question is from the line of Nandish Shah from Moneycontrol Research.

Yes. My first question is whether the current EBITDA...