HUB24 Limited (HUB) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

For this resolution, proxy instructions have been received by the Secretary. The summary of these instructions is set out on the screen behind me. For proxies held by the Chairman, I intend to vote all open proxies that I hold in favor of the resolution. I now direct that a poll be held. The polling instructions are the same as for resolution 1. If anyone would like me to repeat these, please raise your hand. Would you now please complete the poll cards for this resolution? [Voting]

I believe that those persons who wish to vote in the poll have now done. I declare the poll closed. The next resolution is consider the reelection -- or the election of Ruth Stringer as a Director of the company. To consider, and if thought fit, to pass the following resolution as an ordinary resolution: That Ruth Stringer, a Non-Executive Director of the company, who was appointed by -- to the office of Director by the Board to fill a casual vacancy and who retires from the office of Director in accordance with Rule 63.2 of the Constitution and ASX Listing Rule 14.4, and being eligible and offering herself for reelection, be reelected as a Director of the company. Does any shareholder wish to speak in relation to the resolution or ask any questions? No? For this resolution, proxy instructions have been received by the Secretary. A summary of these instructions are set out on the screen behind me. I intend to vote all open proxies I hold in favor of the resolution. I now direct that a poll be held. Would you now complete the polling cards for the resolution? [Voting]

Thank you. I believe that those persons who wish to vote in the poll have now done so. I declare the poll closed. Resolution 4. The next resolution is to consider and approve the issue of options and performance rights to Andrew Alcock. To consider, and if thought fit, to pass the following resolution as an ordinary resolution: That for the purposes of ASX Listing Rule 10.14 and all other purposes, that the issue of the company -- by the company of 33,588 options and 301,395 performance rights to Andrew Alcock on the terms set out on the explanatory memorandum to this notice be approved. Does any shareholder wish to speak in relation to the resolution or ask any questions? Allan?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Same question about transparency. Again, criteria is great. I think the quantum is too large, but fair. I think that if he does everything he's supposed to, he well deserves it. But the special performance rights, I mean you've got 270,000 special performance rights. At the time of being issued and this being awarded is $14.29. That comes to $3,800,058. That's what it was. It's not maybe, perhaps, I don't know. That's what it was. All I'm saying is, put the numbers in it. Put the numbers in so everyone knows of the volume. I mean the fact that this is $4.5 million at the time of issue award, that's fine. I mean they're really good criteria, they're excellent criteria. He really has to work to go and do it, and we're all going to be happy because we'll make equal money. Good stuff. Just asking for some greater transparency.

I thank you for that input. I'm quite happy that next time that we issue the rights, we multiply them by the share price at the relevant period on the issue of the document and multiply that and give a number. Thanks for that.

Yes, that's all.

Okay. Any further questions? For this resolution, proxy instructions have been received by the Secretary. The summary of these instructions are set out on the screen behind me. For those held by the Chairman, again, I intend to vote all open proxies that I hold. I now direct that a poll be held. Would you please complete the polling cards for the resolution? [Voting]

Thank you. I believe that those persons who wish to vote in the poll have now done so. I declare the poll closed. Resolution 5. The next resolution is to consider, and if thought fit, approve the employee share option plan. To consider, and if thought fit, pass the following resolution as an ordinary resolution: That for the purposes of Exception 13(b) of ASX Listing Rule 7.2, and for all other purposes, approval will be given for the issue of securities under the existing HUB24 Employee Share Option Plan, the terms of which are detailed in the explanatory memorandum. Does any shareholder wish to speak in relation to the resolution or ask any questions? There being no questions, I'll go to the proxy instructions have been received by the Secretary. A summary of these instructions are on the screen. For proxies held, I intend to vote them in favor of the resolution. I now direct that a poll be held. Please complete the polling cards for this resolution. [Voting]

Thank you. I believe that those persons who wish to vote have now done so. I declare the poll closed. Resolution 6. The next resolution is to consider, and if thought fit, approve the adoption of amended constitution. To consider and, if thought fit, to pass the following resolution as a special resolution: That for the purpose of Section 136(2) of the Corporations Act and for all other purposes, approval is given for the company to amend its existing constitution and replace it with the document titled Constitution of HUB24 Limited tabled at the meeting and signed by the Chairman of the meeting for the purposes of identification, and with effect from the close of the meeting. Does any shareholder wish to speak in relation to the resolution or ask any questions? Allan?

Mr. Chairman, 5 million votes against it, 5 million shares. Why? Do you know? I mean we're against it because we don't like the idea of asking for a virtual meeting, which is a requirement. Do you know why the other people are against it? I'm just curious.

Well, in the process of preparing the Notice of Meeting and on the receipt of different proxy advisers' inputs, including the ASA's input, which I thank you for, we received a whole range of input and a whole range of views in relation to the proposed Constitution. And some of those shares were personal to those shareholders, it's overwhelmingly for it.

Okay. Oh, yes. Let's just vote, for the brevity of this. So an excellent reply. That was all. Thank you, sir.

Any further questions? No? Those proxy instructions have been received. For proxies held by the Chairman, I intend to vote all open proxies that I hold in favor of the resolution. I now direct that a poll be held. Would you now please complete your poll cards for the resolution? [Voting]

Thank you. I believe that those persons who wish to vote in the poll have now done so, and I declare the poll closed. Resolution 7. This resolution is to consider and approve increasing the maximum aggregate remuneration for Non-Executive Directors. To consider and, if thought fit, to pass the following resolution as an ordinary resolution: To consider, and if thought fit, to pass the following resolution that for the purpose of Listing Rule 19.1 and the Constitution, ASX Listing Rule 10.17 and for all other purposes, the maximum aggregate remuneration payable to the Non-Executive Directors of the company in a financial year be increased by 100,000, from 800,000 to 900,000. Are there any questions? There not being any questions. I'll refer you to the proxy instructions that have been received, and a summary of these instructions are set out on the screen behind me. I intend to vote all open proxies that I hold in favor of the resolution. I now direct that a poll be held. Please complete the polling cards for this resolution. [Voting]

Thank you. I believe that those persons who wish to vote in the poll have now done so, and I declare the poll closed. Please remain seated, and staff will collect the completed poll cards from you. Is that going to be at the end of the meeting or right at this juncture? I think we will collect them now, will we?

For voting? Yes, we're closing it.

Yes. So we'll collect them now. And we'll then just shuffle the lectern here with Andrew. Can I invite you to get ready for your presentation while those cards are collected. Thank you. And I might note that there'll be an opportunity to ask all sorts of questions about the company to Andrew or any of the members of management that he might direct those to after his presentation. I'll just get the Directors to sit to the sides so you're not staring everyone in the eye while you present.

Thank you, Chairman. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you very much for your interest in HUB24 and for your attendance, either online or in person this afternoon. I must say it's an absolute privilege to stand here today talking about your great company about our strategy and the things we've achieved. And we're very, very happy to be able to talk to you about such great growth and such great prospects moving ahead. As always, HUB24 is about creating better outcomes for clients, that be investors, people who are going to retire. It's about lowering costs. It's about improving utility. It's about creating better investment returns and bringing the best of that across our 4 operating brands in the marketplace. We're very proud to have done that. We think we've led change in this industry. As evidenced by some of the changing of the guard in terms of those people who -- or those institutions who are leaving wealth management and those who are actually taking market share, there's a very good reason for that because we are about creating better outcomes for customers and consumers and not about selling our own products and actually touching each part of the value chain, it is designed absolutely about creating change and better outcomes for customers. And those who choose to use HUB24 invest in HUB24 Super, those who choose to have advice from a Paragem adviser, those who choose to use HUBconnect and to those industry participants that are customers of ours in our Agility business unit. Very quickly, I don't intend to spend much on FY '20. I think that's old news now. We're all living in a different environment where there's change every day and every week. But some quick highlights on our performance in FY '20. As you can see, the numbers are up there on the screen. Very good results in terms of expanding our group underlying EBITDA, our platform EBITDA and our revenue, all up with healthy percentages there. It was a delight to be able to deliver fully franked dividend, as Bruce mentioned in his speech, and have a full dividend of $0.07 per share for FY '20. And we finished the year with $17.2 billion of funds under administration. And as of the most recently published results at the end of September, that had grown to $19 billion. So I'll spend a little bit later about the growth of the business and how that's happening in what is a turbulent time or a difficult marketplace overall for Australians. A couple of highlights. And this was also published at our full year results publication. So some highlights there for FY '20. Just a couple of things I want to draw your attention to. We did have record annual flows of $4.95 billion. In the context of COVID hitting Australia, February, March, this business still, in total, actually delivered growth with record flows for the year. And we managed to maintain momentum in our business in terms of delivering that growth, and we're continuing to manage to maintain that momentum at the same time as undertaking the delivery of our strategic initiatives and executing on strategic acquisitions as well. The rest of those are in the pack that's being lodged with the ASX, if you'd like to spend some time reading them. In terms of the trend for the platform segment of the HUB24 business, you can see on the chart on the screen that year-on-year, we've had continuing growth in revenue, and you'll see the expansion of profit margins. As you can see, the jaws between revenue and expenses expanding on the chart on the left-hand side. Translating that into EBITDA margin or underlying EBITDA margin, you can see the trend from FY '16, when we had a minus 4% margin through to FY '20 where our underlying EBITDA margin has risen to 39%. Our margin is continuing to expand with scale. We did make an investment in the business and its cost base in FY '19, and we certainly leverage that in FY '20, delivering growth, delivering outcomes and expansion of profit margins. And that has allowed us to fund the dividend that I talked about earlier. If you take that growth in terms of revenue and expenses and have a look at it in terms of a CAGR sense for the business, for the platform business over 5 years, our funds under administration has grown at a CAGR rate of 59% or just under 60% growth on a CAGR basis or compound annual growth rate, and our revenue has grown at a 55% compound annual growth rate as well, which is very, very good growth rates. I must say, I'm delighted to be here talking about that and being proud that our team and our business is delivering great results for customers and great results for shareholders. Once again, if you think about the net flows into the business, on the right-hand side of that slide. Again, we're talking about -- and this slide is showing that we are punching above our weight. If you look at HUB24 there in terms of our underlying market share versus our share of new business in the market, we're actually growing at about 120x our size or punching above our weight using a ratio there. And on the slide, you can see that the specialist platforms in the Australian marketplace are generally those that are growing. And the incumbent platforms are generally those that are decreasing in market share. Once again, just giving you a snapshot of the business and the trends over the last few years and our growth in terms of flows. In terms of what we've done in the context of what has been seen to be a difficult time with COVID 19. As Bruce, our Chairman mentioned, we had 2 record quarters of inflows. So the June quarter was a record for a June quarter. The September quarter was a record for a September quarter. All in the context of a marketplace that's troubled and turbulent and volatile, HUB24 has continued to grow. We're a very robust business. We're continuing to grow as a result of strong customer advocacy and because of our market leadership. Our managed portfolios, and I'll talk about this a bit later bit, during the pandemic and the time when people were rebalancing their portfolios, our managed portfolios really showcased their capability in terms of allowing advisers to get back to business to help their clients and actually rebalance portfolios very, very quickly. And in actual fact, they've demonstrated great value and the benefits of managed portfolio for what it can achieve for a customer, the pandemic has shown that and tested that. Again, the marketplace, the trends in the marketplace, the incumbents or the -- our competitors, if you like, are continuing to divest their investment in wealth management. Licensees and advisers are still looking for -- or increasingly looking for stability and a commitment to wealth management, which is absolutely what HUB24 is about. So in the context of COVID-19, it's great to be standing up here as a CEO or a Managing Director saying, "Look, we're growing." We're still growing. That's good. We're doing a great thing for our customers, and we're achieving great results for our shareholders. As always, we've done well. Once again, we're proud to put up the awards we've received over the 12 months. I'll talk about managed accounts a little bit later. But being first in product offering integration, an equal first in platform service is a great result for a business that has such small market share that's growing so rapidly. To grow rapidly and deliver great customer service at the same time is a mean feat or no mean feat. So those awards are there, and we're very proud of those. Taking a deeper dive in terms of managed portfolios. We lead the market in managed portfolios. For 4 years in a row, we've won the award from Investments Trends. In terms of first for managed accounts functionality, we've won awards for the reach of our portfolios, in terms of primary relationships, advisers value us more than others in terms of a primary relationship for a managed portfolio provider and the highest adviser satisfaction records. 4 years in a row, we've been winning those great awards. We've been demonstrating in the market, I mentioned a few minutes ago about managed portfolios coming to their own or being showcased through a period of volatility. Our managed portfolios have allowed advisers to adjust or rebalance all of their clients, if they're using a managed portfolio very, very quickly in terms of a volatile marketplace. If you didn't have one, you probably regretted not having one because the advisers were able to actually make a difference. And I think we've seen in this event or this market event, we've seen a far different response. If you look at what happened at 9/11 or what happened with the GFC if you're seeing how long advisers talk to go through their clients, rebalance their portfolios where they started A and end at Z, but being able to do that and actually implement instructions, it's a hard piece of work. With a managed portfolio from HUB24, you go through that fairly quickly. You've got to stay in business, you've got to look after your clients' interest and actually demonstrate how technology is creating value for customers. Even more so, if you had a HUB24 managed portfolio and you took advantage of some of the tax benefits that we get in terms of the way we manage parcels, the way that we can actually reduce costs, you actually managed to get better outcomes financially for your client as well. And we certainly showcased that during the pandemic. We've got lots of examples where advisers using HUB24, if they rebalance the portfolio for their client, they actually get a far better outcome. In one case, there was an adviser who saved their client $18,000 in capital gains tax when they had the same portfolio on a competitive platform doing the same trade simply because of the tax algorithms that we have in the platform. Good outcomes there. And we're happy to show that research. In fact, we've got research published in the marketplace about what we call Platform alpha and the benefits that managed portfolios are creating for consumers. Moving on to the strategic acquisitions, which our Chairman has talked about. At a glance, on this slide, you can see them there, the Xplore Wealth acquisition, which is for $60 million. The acquisition of the Ord Minnett PARS business or portfolio administration and reporting service. And our strategic investment in Easton of up to 40% and the divestment of our Paragem business into that group. In essence, those acquisitions position us for ongoing success. They're going to strengthen our position as a market leader in terms of being a specialist platform provider. They're going to increase the funds under administration, the business creates scale for us and create new strategic relationships that we will work with moving forward and also expected to enhance our financial results. As Bruce mentioned, for a total consideration of $93 million, including some integration and transaction costs, these acquisitions are expected to result in earnings per share accretion of approximately 13% in FY '22, and we expect to have synergies running at a full run rate of synergies from FY '24 of $10 million per annum. They are a series of compelling acquisitions. They actually play to our strategy and to our strategic objectives in terms of being the leading platform provider in this marketplace. On the right-hand side, you can see when you look at HUB24 on the top bar there, with our current $19 billion of custody, adding the acquisitions and the noncustody custodial FUA for Xplore and Ord Minnett, how that plays out, it sees us having an estimated $28 billion in custody and $14 billion in noncustody. And you can see our competitors listed there as well. And these acquisitions actually transform the size of our business and they create a new business line for us in terms of noncustody administration. They also give us access to really great, what we call, marquee clients or large clients in the high net worth space, being Evans & Partners and Westpac and broaden our offering in terms of high net worth product features that allows HUB24 to push further into those market segments as well. So they are great acquisitions. They're going to increase our FUA and our scale. They create a market-leading position for us in terms of noncustodial or Direct HIN administration, asset administration, and they create opportunities and synergies for us across the client base. As a result of that, we are looking at how we reposition our branding in the marketplace. If you look at the left-hand side on this slide here, we've been in the market with 4 brands: HUB24; HUBconnect, which is a data and whole of wealth portfolio; Agility, which is our data and managed services and technology subsidiary; and Paragem. Paragem will actually be divested, if successful in the scheme with Easton, to Easton Wealth, and we'll, moving forward, rebrand Agility to sit under the HUBconnect brand. So in terms of how we brand and face the marketplace, there'll be 2 strong propositions or brands out there, being HUB24 and HUBconnect. HUB24, of course, being our platform business with a solution for licensees, advisers and their clients. And HUBconnect being about our technology solutions, our noncustody administration that's targeting licensees, brokers, advisers and their clients. And you'll hear more about that as we roll that out in the future. The timetable for the acquisitions is there. I won't mention that. It's available for you online, if you like. In terms of moving to outlook. We intend to continue to deliver on our strategic initiatives. We intend to continue to enhance our core platform business by investing in the platform to create more choice for advisers, more efficiency, more choice for customers. We're enhancing our digital onboarding process so that it's even easier to deal with HUB24 moving ahead for advisers to open accounts with their customers. That's in train at the moment. And there's solutions coming out for some of the regulatory dangers being made, the first one of which being the advice fee opt-in for clients. We're rolling that out shortly as well. We're working on that and we'll roll it out in quarter 3. Of course, we're going to continue to extend our leadership in managed portfolios. We intend to enhance the capability there. There's some education going out in the marketplace. And we did move the portfolios to a registered managed investment scheme as a foundation for future innovation and future customer utility. And we're absolutely in the marketplace talking about the benefits of our managed portfolios in terms of the Alpha, if you like, or how we can add value to a client's retirement outcomes. If you're using good advice, if you're using good investment management and great investment managers, how our technology can actually unlock value and create more value and make a real difference to the nest egg you're setting up for your retirement. We will be continuing on delivering in terms of our technology innovation and greater data connectivity. We're extending HUBconnect, adding new data sources to it. And we're certainly looking to leverage the position we've got by bringing together HUBconnect and Agility into 1 business unit and providing services across the market. We will be, when we implement the acquisition of Ord Minnett's PARS, which will be completed imminently, and the acquisition of Xplore Wealth, we will be a market leader in that space, and we'll continue to deliver and invest in that -- in being the leader in noncustody admin and reporting services. Of course, one of our objective is to continue to grow the business. We're actually, at the moment, increasing our sales team. There's an opportunity in this marketplace because there's continued change occurring, continued exit by incumbents and continued opportunity for us to grow the business on behalf of our shareholders. So we're looking forward to capturing that opportunity. There is the transition of ClearView Wealth Solutions, which is planned for later on this financial year. And there's absolutely new relationships we intend to leverage with the acquisitions we've got underway. And lastly, we are committed to transforming advice to enabling this industry to continue to deliver to customers what they need in terms of lowering the cost of advice, increasing the certainty of advice and using our position as a technology innovator to do that. Interestingly, we'll be rolling out the bionic advice solution we've talked about with Aberdeen Standard being a partner with us there for the HUB24 Access platform, which is a different product offering in the marketplace. We look forward to talking about that as that occurs moving forward. At the highest level, in terms of our overall strategic objectives, moving forward, we want to create customer and shareholder value. We're positioning the business as the leading provider of integrated platform, data and technology services to the Australian wealth advisory businesses and to the marketplace in general. Our organic growth target there, which hasn't been updated as a result of the acquisitions, this is our current business. We're on track to hit that target, which we announced in August of $28 billion to $32 billion of funds under administration. We're going to pursue growth. We're going to leverage our existing relationships and the opportunities in the pipeline. We have to continue to grow the business and seek new opportunities as well. We tend to complete the transactions and commence their integration and leverage those transactions and provide greater benefits for customers, for advisers and for shareholders. And we're going to position the business for ongoing success, supporting our customers with great service and excellence, showcasing our capabilities and building long-term relationships. As a result, we expect to have continuing strong financial results and leveraging our growth in FUA and our scalability to deliver shareholder value and to increase profitability. So thank you very much. I'm happy to turn to questions. Bruce, I don't know if you'd like to return here. But questions for myself or questions for the Chair and I or others, we're happy to do that.

I'd love to get questions at this part of the meeting. Please, anybody. I can see shareholders from last year here who came up with some good ones. Any this year?

I have a few questions.

Thank you.

As always. Now I was reading a bit about the new acquisition. You're paying 200% premium for it -- just talking about the latest acquisition. You're paying 200% premium for it. What sort of growth rate are you expecting to extract out of it and the synergies that you might get?

Well, we've published the synergies in terms of $10 million as the package for all those acquisitions from FY '24 as a run rate, and they're largely cost-based synergies. And we don't -- we haven't actually published a growth rate, if you'd like. But obviously, we've acquired the business. We think there's some great clients and there's some great capability, which will create growth for us. So in our modeling, that's very accretive. So from that perspective, we think it's a great acquisition for us in terms of the capability it adds to our business. But the numbers we've published in terms of the EPS and the synergies are the only numbers that we can really talk about today, other than, of course, we want to leverage that for growth. But in terms of the business case, we've published those 2 numbers. I think if I color that in though, in terms of what it means. If we can add bonds to the HUB24 platform, international and domestic bonds, that actually create greater utility for clients and actually allow us to, I suppose, extend into more high net worth clients. We can add non-Australian or global managed funds to our platform, which are things that come with that Xplore business. That will enhance our capability and allow us to compete differently in the high net worth space or the family office space. So we expect to see us being able to compete differently there. And the other part of that acquisition. We're talking about Xplore with the premium on that, the noncustody administration piece. Having that and linking that with the Ord Minnett business allows us to invest in building out an even bigger market share or an even bigger proposition in the marketplace because we're actually going to have scale in that space as well. So the opportunity for shareholders is great because we're actually entering the market, making a splash and will be arguably the largest noncustodial administrator, which means we can lead and bring our technology to that space and then grow again.

Okay. So you're expecting the growth rate to be quite high? I know you've been saying the last 5 years, 59%. But on that acquisition alone, on that business alone, do you expect it to be, like, at least, I don't know, 30% growth just for that business alone?

We don't give those targets. Xplore is actually growing. We expect, as a business, we'll continue to grow with very, very healthy growth rates in combination. That business will provide growth for us. It is about growth. Whilst there's synergies there, we've often said we're not going to buy a business just to consolidate and create book value or scale value. It is about growth. So we do expect that, but I can't give you a figure.

No, okay. Well, I thought you might have a figure in mind, like some sort of a target to aim for.

Well, let me add. I mean he has got a figure in mind, but we're not disclosing it. But I think you can get a sense of that, that when you pay cash and scrip for an acquisition, you raise the cash or scrip. And when you eliminate, if you like, when you talk about the acquisition being accretive in terms of an increase in earnings per share, you're covering the dilution with some upside. And Kitrina, our CFO, is over here. It was 13...

13%. Yes.

13% EPS accretion. So that's, if you like, an accounting hit to the growth, but that was only FY '22, and you're probably thinking in 3 to 5 years. But we -- I'm sorry, we haven't published a number. But what I can say is that we've delivered on growth and watch this space. Thank you.

Okay. Wonderful. I will watch it. Now I guess next thing is you're saying with the platform, different types of investments. And I guess in the last few months, cryptocurrency has been creeping into the -- almost the norm or the markets with a lot of big companies accepting Bitcoin or other things, which I still understand yet I'm still learning. So what is your thought on that? And will you be bringing crypto into the platform investment because we are into investments?

Firstly, the investments available on the platform, financial advisers have to be licensed and authorized to give advice on. So if advisers and licensees want to see those sorts of investments, it's something we might consider. But right now, I think it's about -- there may be products in the platform, I'm sorry, I don't know, there may be products in the platform that do invest in crypto. But from that perspective, we think the platform has great, safe, secure strategies. And it is a business that does rely on advisers providing investment advice to consumers. So I think that's part of the value chain there. So we might look at it, but at this point in time, probably not without that demand and without licensees feeling they can protect the interest of their clients to provide advice on those products.

Yes, there's a crypto ETF.

Yes. I actually think there are ETFs and products that actually do invest in that possibly on the platform there, but I can't answer that on the spot.

Oh, okay. It just I've been hearing all this infrastructure has been built out by a lot like the central banks, the big banks, the whoever, they have been looking at -- I guess, the other thing is the blockchain technology, that a lot of these financial institutions as well as a lot of big businesses have been building it out and they're going to try and bring it on board because that's the next level of that advising technology, I suppose.

We can certainly participate in that with the technology. We can certainly do that and the interfaces we have with the industry and the infrastructure and it would allow that over time. So I don't think that's an issue. If we chose to go there, we'd be able to do that with our technology. Certainly, we watch the ASX initiatives we're actually in a working group with the ASX on the replacement of CHESS. So we're certainly involved in how they're using blockchain and how that would work. And we think if that lowers cost to consumers, we'd actually embrace that and work through that with our value chain. So we're alive to those things and participating in those industry groups.

Well, that's good. So like, let's say, blockchain is going to come in the next within 5 years, so with what you've got, the platform that you've got, can you easily transfer over to the blockchain network? Or how will it work? I mean...

You're talking about actually having any mutable record of a client's holdings.

Yes.

From our perspective, in the current environment with custody, we have a custodian that does that where a customer will use a custodian to do that. If blockchain replaces custody, absolutely, that would be something we would port to, and that wouldn't be a difficulty. It may take some time. But I think let's wait and see how that goes.

Okay. Thank you.

Further questions? No? There being no further questions, I'll have to close the meeting, and I invite shareholders to have refreshments outside. Due to COVID, that's pretty modest this year. I think it's bottled water. I apologize, but I was told that was the rule. So happy to have a bottled water and have a chat informally about the company with shareholders and management who are present also. Thank you, everyone.