Hulamin Limited ($HLM)

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to this Annual General Meeting of the Shareholders of Hulamin Limited. My name is Paul Baloyi. I'm the Chairperson of the Board. This hybrid AGM is also being conducted in electronic format in accordance with Section 63 2A of the Companies Act 2008, as amended, and the company's memorandum of incorporation. Accordingly, the proceedings of the meetings are being recorded and broadcasted via a live webcast. I have the pleasure of being accompanied by all my Board members who are sitting across over there. In front here, I've got the CFO, the CEO, the Company Secretary and the Chairman of the audit. Our external auditors, E&Y, I didn't get a chance to say hello, are they here? They are online. Okay. And who is our scrutineer? I just met them over there. Right, Computershare in attendance. As regards to the notice of the meeting, the notice convening this Annual General Meeting, along with the 2025 integrated report, annual financial statements and the sustainability report were issued on the 23rd of March 2026. A subsequent update of the notice following change of directorship and change of venue for in-person attendance was issued on the 7th of May 2026. Should any shareholders have any questions on these documents and the resolutions tabled at this meeting, please raise your hand or send a message through the comment section of the virtual platform. I will endeavor to respond or direct the questions to the appropriate person. We will try to group the questions according to theme and respond to them accordingly. And if need, I may park some of them to respond to them at the end of the session for that matter. So are there any questions? This is regarding the notice as a start. Yes.

Got 2 quick ones. One, what is the time that [indiscernible] shareholders ask question to you and the Board. And secondly, [indiscernible], executives, other people listening electronically. Do they have to write the questions or can they just verbally [indiscernible] to have a discussion?

They have both options, Mr. [indiscernible]. They can do it online. They either have sent us already the questions upfront, which we will read when we get to that section.

What is the section? [indiscernible] what other matters to [indiscernible]?

I think those questions on the general, I'll deal with them at the end of the session. I want to stick to the script of the AGM.

[indiscernible] I can't see the section. I see vote [indiscernible].

Under any other matters, that's the general form. I will get there. Okay. There being no further questions, I propose that the notice, which contains details of the ordinary and special resolution to be considered, be taken as read. In terms of the company's MOI, the quorum for the Annual General Meeting of Shareholders is 25% of the total voting rights entitled to be exercised in respect of at least one matter to be decided at the meeting and at least 3 voting members present at the meeting. I've confirmed with the Company Secretary that the meeting is duly constituted or cororated. I therefore declare the meeting to be fully constituted for the ordinary and special resolutions to be considered. We'll now go to proceedings of the meetings and voting by way of a poll. In terms of Section 30.2 of the company's MOI, unless otherwise resolved, voting at this meeting shall proceed by way of a poll. Shareholders were encouraged to submit votes by proxy in advance of the AGM. I would like to thank the shareholders who have submitted their vote, their proxies, which have been duly received and recorded. Shareholders who wish to vote at this meeting may do so on their voting paper. The scrutineer will collect the ballot papers when the voting closes from the attending in person. Those who are attending online, please e-mail the voting papers to Computershare at the e-mail reflected on your notices. In order to expedite the proceedings of this meeting, I will read out all the resolutions being tabled at today's meeting for approval. I propose that you complete the voting paper after each resolution is put on the meeting or to the meeting. The voting paper will be collated and counted after all the resolutions have been voted upon. While the votes are being collated, I will open the meeting to shareholders to pose their questions and comments. Thereafter, I will announce the results of the resolutions put to the meeting. Item one of the resolutions under consideration, the presentation of the annual financial statements. The company's audited annual financial statements for the financial year ended 31st of December 2025 were distributed to the shareholders and made accessible on the company's website since the 23rd of March 2026. The audited annual financial statements incorporate the reports of the Audit Committee, the Directors and the external auditors. They are hereby presented at this meeting in accordance with the provision of the Companies Act and are available for inspection. Presentation of Social and Ethics and Transformation Committee report. As required in terms of Regulation 43 5c of the company's Regulation 2011 and Section 12 of the company's amended -- Amendment Act 2024, the Social, Ethics and Sustainable Committee reports for the financial year ended 31st December 2025, is presented to the shareholders. The report was issued as part of the sustainability report on the 23rd of March 2026 and is accessible on the company's website. Ordinary resolution #1, reelection of the Directors. Ordinary resolution #1.1 to 1.3 relate to the election of Directors of the company who retire by rotation in accordance with Paragraph 33.11 of the company's MOI and who are eligible and available to have offer themselves up for reelection. In terms of the MOI, 1/3 of the Directors of the company must retire at each AGM. The profiles of the Directors retiring at this meeting were included in the governance report contained in the Hulamin integrated report. I would like to propose the approved -- the approval of the following resolutions. Ordinary resolution #1.1, reelection of Mark Gounder as an Executive Director. Ordinary Resolution 1.2, reelection of Dr. Bonnie Mehlomakulu as an Independent Non-Executive Director. Ordinary resolution #1.3, reelection of Vusi Khumalo as a Non-Executive Director. Okay. Firstly, as regards to the election of the Directors, are there any questions that anybody want to pose on that before I ask you to vote? In the absence of wish please proceed and fill in your voting slips. Ordinary resolution #2, election of the Audit Committee members. Ordinary Resolution 2.1 and 2.3 relate to the election of members of the Audit Committee of the company who are eligible and are available and have offered themselves for election. I would like to propose the approval of the following resolutions. Ordinary Resolution 2.1, election of Linda Yanta as the member of the Audit Committee. Ordinary Resolution 2.2, election of Zanele Monnakgotla as a member of the Audit Committee. Ordinary Resolution 2.3, election of Dr. Bonnie Mehlomakulu as a member of the Audit Committee. Are there any questions to the proposed resolutions? In the absence of which I'll take the resolutions approved and I ask you to note your ballot papers. Ordinary resolution #3, election of social, ethics and sustainability members. Ordinary Resolution 3.1 to 3.3 relates to the election of members of the Social and Ethics and Sustainable Committee of the company who are eligible and available and have offered themselves for election. I would like to propose the approval of the following resolutions: Ordinary Resolution 3.1, election of Vusi Khumalo as a memeber of the Social and Ethics and Sustainability Committee. Ordinary Resolution 3.2, election of Dr. Bonnie Mehlomakulu as a member of the Social and Ethics Committee and Sustainable Committee. Ordinary Resolution 3.3, election of Zanele Monnakgotla as a member of the Social, Ethics and Sustainable Committee. Are there any questions on the proposed resolutions? In the absence of which, please complete your voting paper. Ordinary resolution #4, appointment of external auditors. I proposed ordinary resolution 4, reappointment of Ernst & Young Inc. as an independent auditor of the company for the ensuing year and until the conclusion of the next AGM, the designated auditor being Mr. Farouk Ebrahim. Are there any questions on the appointment of the auditor? In the absence of which, please complete your voting paper. Ordinary Resolution 5 and 6, approval of remuneration policy and implementation report. Nonbinding advisory resolution 5 and 6 relate to the company's remuneration policy and remuneration implementation report as set out in the integrated annual report. I would like to propose the following resolutions. Ordinary Resolution 5, approval of the remuneration policy. Ordinary resolution 6, approval of the implementation report. Are there any questions in respect of those 2 resolutions? In the absence of which please complete your ballot papers. Ordinary resolution #4 relating to the approval of the authorization to sign documents. I propose ordinary resolution #7, approval of authorization for any one Director of the company Secretary to sign documents to give effect to the resolutions. Any questions? In the absence of which please complete your vote. Special resolution #1, approval of the [indiscernible] remuneration. Special resolution #1 is to consider and if deemed appropriate, grant the company authority to remunerate its Non-Executive Directors for their services as Director and/or pay any fees related thereto on the basis outlined in the notice of the AGM and for this authority to be valid with immediate effect until the next AGM in 2027. I propose special resolution 1, there were no increases to the proposed Director remuneration. Are there any questions? In the absence of which please complete your ballot paper. Special resolution #2, approval of financial assistance to subsidiaries and other related and interrelated entities. Special resolution #2 is to consider and if deemed appropriate, grant the company authority to provide financial assistance to its subsidiaries and other related and interrelated entities as contemplated in Section 45 of the Companies Act and on the terms contemplated in the special resolution 2 contained in the notice of the AGM. I propose special resolution 2, approval of financial assistance. In the absence of any questions, please complete the voting ballot. I may have add slightly in that I didn't ask you politely to vote for the annual financial statements. I simply just read it for the resolution. Yes. Okay. And I think that brings us to the final piece. As the voting of the resolution put before the meeting should now be complete, I will pause to allow the scrutineer, Computershare to collect and count all the votes. While the scrutineer counts the votes, the meeting is open to shareholders or shareholders representatives who have questions on these documents in the resolution tabled. May shareholders who are attending in person, please raise their hands. And those online, you are kindly reminded to please send your message through the comments section of the virtual platform. I will endeavor to respond to all the direct questions as asked, in particular, those that relate to the resolutions that have been put before you as opposed to broader general issues which we prefer not to entertain unless by exception as we go. So on that note, I invite any questions, and I'll ask the secretary to read those that are online.

Perhaps, Chair, if we could start with those who are in the room.

Yes. Any questions in the room?

And may I ask each shareholder who raises their hand if they could just -- before they pose the question, just confirm their name or confirm the institute they represent as a shareholder.

Questions relating to any aspect of the financial statements or just the resolution...

Yes, you may proceed if you want to ask that.

[indiscernible] first question is if you could just take us through the update on the comment in the annual report around strategic shareholder or the search for a strategic shareholder.

I think that probably was contained in my report as Chairman. I think for those of you that have been in the company longer, you'll recall that the company did say at the time that one of its strategic objectives is to find a strategic partner. And that is contemplated from 2 perspectives. One is recognizing that from an expertise perspective, technology, you name it, we are behind the curve as a company. And two, given global dynamics and where we are at the company and funding required, to complete or to build Hulamin into a state-of-the-art global player is quite significant. It does not make sense for you to fund it from a local base. And therefore, we're hoping to find a strategic partner. So in that regard, we've been engaging. We've got consultants that are out there engaging and some discussions have been happening. We are not at a point where we can share with you the details of that at the moment for obvious reasons, key amongst is confidentiality. And besides, there are strict criteria on the basis of which we may start disclosing names and dates and et cetera. We are not there yet. But sufficed for me to have said that it is continuing. It's something that the Board is still fully engaged and focused on. And we hope that as we go and hopefully, in the medium term, we'll be able to come back to you and tell you whether we've been successful in that regard.

Chair...

You got another question? Please go ahead.

So just next, if you could perhaps just reupdate the shareholders on the current facilities and headroom that you have on the facilities. So what the current utilization is on the debt facilities and what headroom we have on those facilities?

I would like to give that information here.

I think the -- our funding capacity is one of the key elements that the Board has been engaged in to make sure that from a going concern basis, we're comfortable that as a Board, we're not trading recklessly. So we've gone through a thorough review of the company's access to funding, initiatives that we can do internally and whether we can confidently say we've got enough funding for the ensuing year. And I'm very happy to say that as a Board, we're confident that our funding position is pretty good where we are at the moment, and we've got enough headroom currently and planned into the future for us to be able to continue to be in business. There are obviously other initiatives that we're busy with, and we'll announce those as the future going. This will relate to trying to expand our trading base as a company because part of the commitment arising from the plant build was to increase capacity. And by extension, that would mean that we may have to look at funding -- increased working capital, but we'll announce those plans as we go into the future.

So Mr. Chairman, how much is the headroom exactly at the moment? What's the quantum?

I don't think that will be a relevant figure for you now because that changes. Even as I'm speaking to you now, it can move. So it's not a fixed position that I can say. Suffice for me to say, it is enough at this point in time for us to be comfortable that from a going concern basis, we are fine.

May I come in there. And I'm sorry to say, but I don't agree with you. I think your headroom is not sufficient. You know where the metal price has gone from the last 6 months from ZAR 2,800 to ZAR 3,600. That's a dramatic increase. And if I look at your cash -- and if I look at your headroom, I think you're running on a very tight ship there. I just want to say that as for the record. I don't believe that you are quite correct there. Sorry.

Thank you for that. I think as a shareholder and given the limited access you have to what we are doing internally, which I've not disclosed to you, I think you're obliged to say that because you're looking at stats. But may I just point out that as a Board, what I've told you are things that we've done internally with management. We've got initiatives that enable us to curtail expenditure if we need to. We've got initiatives that enables us to release stock in the market if we want to. So the headroom is not a fixed aspect that is out of our control. It's within our control as a Board. We determine ourselves as to how far we want to go. And so far, we think there's enough and we've got enough initiatives as a Board to be able to sustain the organization. You're correct in saying that we could do better. We could have had more. I'd like to have more. And I've already in my previous discussions, highlighted that we have got initiatives in place to do that. So other than telling you activity-wise and I'm telling this, we've done this, we've done that, which probably will show you that and prove to you that we've done that. There is no other way in which I can tell you other than to ask you to take my word as Chairman and as the Board, when I say to you, we have looked at it, we are satisfied that we have got enough headroom. As I'm speaking to you now, it's a matter, I can say that with confidence, and we've got other initiatives. So if we had any hesitation, I wouldn't be sitting here today.

Thanks very much, and it's very good to hear what you say. Yes, I have to think how to say it politely. I can only look at it statistically. You're quite right. I can only look at the history. But the history that I can see indicates to me that it is not under control. Maybe it is now, which would be wonderful to hear.

Thank you. I'll take that as a statement. I'm not going to debate that.

Chair, if I may read from one of the online questions. This one comes from Chris Logan from Opportune. And I'll read it for [indiscernible]. Since listing in 2007, Hulamin's share price has been on a consistent decline, reflecting poor financial performance. Has the Board seen fit to commission a diagnostic review as to why Hulamin has performed so poorly and what is needed for a sustained turnaround?

I think the past, I would say, 7 or 8 months or so, we've gone through a thorough introspection as a Board. And we've gone through quite critical analysis and interrogation of management and our management system. We've looked at how the company has performed historically. We've looked at our constraints. We've understood where the market is at the moment and the global logistics the business. We've asked ourselves some serious questions around can we ever get to a situation where we can say there is value in continuing to run this company going forward as a Board because clearly, I think given its history, it's an open book. And I think shareholders are quite justified in filling done in because we have not given you your due as shareholders. Having done that introspection, I think, one, we are confident that there's space for Hulamin as a company to go forward. Our own record is saying that part of Hulamin -- the major problem with Hulamin is getting its product to the market, producing the goods that a good margin and a good mix to get to the market. We do not have a demand problem. In effect, demand at the moment currently in terms of our market outstrips the supply. So all we're going to do is get the plant to work the way that it should produce the level of production that we can get the mix that we need to get to the market. And if we do that, this company will be profitable. And in my mind, if we do that, there should be no reason why we shouldn't start looking at rewarding the shareholders for your investment. So I think the question is well put. Shareholders are concerned. It's a legitimate question to ask. But I can certainly say and speak on behalf of the Board and management that it's one thing that we've looked again and quite critically. And it is our intention to restore this group to profitability soon and to begin to maximize production in the manner that we had planned when we announced the plant revamp. So at the moment, sure, we've had a bit of problems, which you could argue sometimes can happen. It was not a pleasant journey for us to have gone through. We're working very hard. We've employed expertise, and we're going to continue to put more expertise in the organization to get those efficiencies up so that we can confidently begin to produce at the level at which the plant can. And if we get the right mix, as I said, without a demand problem in the market, the company should work very well. Global logistics have changed, and I think it opens new opportunities for the group. Therefore, there is a business case for continuity as far as Hulamin is concerned and its product market.

If I may follow up those 2 Chair, and I'll group the 2 that come in. They relate to remuneration and shareholding by executives and nonexecutives. The first one regards questions, remuneration, why there is no minimum shareholding requirement to ensure alignment. It's not quite clear whether this is in relation to minimum shareholding requirement for executives or for nonexecutive Director. This is followed on by a question from still the same shareholder, Chris Logan. Why do directors that being any -- are Directors in totality hold 428-odd thousand shares? And do you not think that this lack of alignment is a major factor in Hulamin's poor performance?

Right. I think I'm quite able to answer that unless any of the Board members first they want to dip in, but I think I can. Okay. At the outset, I think I'll acknowledge that I think lately, it has been one of the key, I think, hot issues for shareholders as far as alignment initiatives are concerned that executives show skin in the game by investing in the company through shares. And many companies have responded, and there's been a variety of measures that they have taken to do that. Hulamin is no exception in that regard. We haven't done that yet, but definitely just part and parcel of our review of where we are and where we're going. It is one issue. At the moment, we have got our focus on the critical aspect of what we're doing now. We have looked at our situation in there, and we have done at the moment, the Phase 1 of the review and amendments to that, which pertain to aligning -- it's a journey, aligning executives to shareholders' requirement and making sure that the measurements that we give them focuses them on value attributes that actually can be regarded by shareholders to be worthwhile as opposed to how it was and also to make sure that, that value is given to the executives at the point that value has been created for shareholders. So some alignment has taken place in that regard in the short term. And then over the long term, that is one of the things that we're going to be doing. Have I missed anything?

On here. I just want to say this issue has been now raised and discussed by the Board for well over 5 years. So I hope that it will not take another 5 years that we see some progress on that matter. I mean it's not a very difficult thing to change.

Yes. The point is not -- have you got any more questions online?

Yes. I will group these ones. They relate to the assets under discontinued operation disposal. The one question, I think, is more of a comment rather than a question, and I will not go into detail comes from Sean [ Hwan ] [indiscernible] in relation to Hulamin Containers. I think it's only for noting and just to confirm to the shareholder that we have received the e-mail we were copied in as a company in relation to the e-mail he did submit to Questco. So we'll allow Questco to run that process in relation to responding to his queries pertaining to containers, Chair. In relation to Hulamin Extrusion...

Have a background to that. The questions...

It relates to disclosures. Why were certain disclosures regarding Hulamin Containers not provided. It -- looking at the exclusion -- exclusive internal pack subsequent the offers, the people offered, the destruction of -- not really destructions, a strategic volume shock absorber. So there's a number quite lengthy. And all it is really pertaining to information that was listed and made available. And the questions here have been forwarded as indicated to Questco.

Okay. So why do we choose not to answer in there?

They were not directed to us. He's asked us to note the questions. They were directed specifically to the sponsor. And as I've indicated, we'll allow the sponsor to then run the process in relation to this.

Mr. [indiscernible], Thanks very much. Allow me to ask 1 or 2 questions, but also say a bit more besides that, I believe per share, I have one word to say. So I think I can talk quite for a while. Yes, Chairman, Paul Baloyi, welcome to the Board of Hulamin and to your first AGM of Hulamin. It's good to see you here, but as you most probably expect already, this will not be an easy AGM as Hulamin is in a serious state. I'm very grateful that we can do this AGM in person and not as it done in the last few years. I think it would also be nice if the people who joined by electronic means could do that also asking that question in person. That should be technically possible, but it seems to be not at the moment. As you might know, I have been a shareholder for more than 5 years and a shareholder with a fair volume of skin in the game, as I say. My investment in Hulamin was done with all good intentions, not to make a quick buck and then run away with a handsome profit. I invested with a long-term view coming from the aluminum industry in South Africa and globally. I saw great potential of this company, as you just said yourself. For you to understand this view better, let me give you a few facts. Hulamin is the only aluminum rolling mill in Africa. The next nearest one is in Egypt. Our mill has a monopoly position for the rolled products in South Africa, a market worth well over 100,000 tonnes per annum, which is protected with a 15% duty on all imports. In addition, it has duty-free access to the European market, which is huge and which imports rolled products of more than 1 million tonnes per annum. Hulamin has also preferred access to the U.S. market, where for years, it has built up a sizable market for its product and is well known. Exports have always played an important role for Hulamin production, whereby these exports were only profitable when the local currency was soft. Hulamin's products are of high quality and have globally up till now a very good technical reputation. Hulamin has an aluminum smelter, South32, down the road from its casting house in Richards Bay, where it receives directly liquid virgin alloy into its cast house, which is of great financial benefit to Hulamin. It has also access to a big local market of post-consumer scrap at very favorable prices as export of scrap is strictly regulated by our government to the benefit of Hulamin again. As of 31st of December 2025, a total of around ZAR 9 billion of plant and equipment was installed and investment in the company since 2007. After depreciation, the value still stands at ZAR 1.1 billion. The company is sitting on a huge property in Pietermaritzburg, which was valued in 2007 at more than ZAR 500 million and further investments into properties since then have brought this cost value to more than ZAR 1.2 billion. As earlier said, when Hulamin was listed at a share price of ZAR 32 in 2007, its shares quickly rose to ZAR 40 a share as the potential was seen by the investors. But looking over the last 10 years, Hulamin made a consolidated loss of around ZAR 150 million. It paid net no taxes to the government, which has always given strong support to the company. The last dividend to the shareholders was paid in 2019, and Hulamin did nothing to grow the local downstream aluminum industry as it sells the same tonnage into the local market today than 10 or 15 years ago.

Mr. [indiscernible], if I may ask you to just shorten it...

No, I will not. As I said, I have one word per share. Sorry to do it, but there's no other way and no other time. I will do it quick. Taking all these basic facts and numbers into account, we must then see where our company is standing today. The share is trading for around 5% of its listing price and well below 40% of its recent high in July '24. The market cap today is ZAR 580 million. I would safely say these ZAR 580 million are far less than the scrap value of all machinery and the huge property in Pietermaritzburg. Looking at these facts of today, I'm more concerned than ever about the actions taken or better said not taken or implemented by the Board and the executive team about the future prospects of Hulamin. Before now asking you, Chairman, who has come late last year into the company, what your plans and actions are for the next months, allow me to provide you first with my assessment of what is going wrong at Hulamin. There has been a great shortage of technical skills at the executive level of the company. I have stressed this since the appointment of Mark as the COO in December '23. A mill, such as Hulamin cannot be run by 2 accountants or CAs only, and we have witnessed this in 2025 in the third and fourth quarter, in particular. The Executive and the Board of Hulamin are aware of many issues that need to be addressed, but the implementation of any of these decisions, if a decision is even made, is extremely slow. Hulamin's Board and executive are going slowly nowhere. I'm happy to give you quite a few examples where the execution of a decision of the Board has taken 2, 3 or even 4 years, each time losing valuable time and also losing money. Hulamin must use in its production more post-consumer scrap and by doing so, reducing its input cost. Yes, I know people at Hulamin are saying this has been done, but one cannot see it in reality, and I mean post-consumer scrap. You have to look at your headroom and cash flow and are coming back to the earlier point. For well over 18 months, you are in a cash squeeze from my point of view and limited headroom. But at the same time, you sit on an unacceptable level of inventory, close to ZAR 4 billion of raw materials, work in progress and finished goods, which is close to 4 months of sales. And as I said, for quite a few months. What is going on there? And how can such nonactivity be explained? You need to increase your production volume. While Mark was talking at the investor conference in October '25 about a production volume of 200,000 tonnes per annum, Hulamin battled to do 170,000 tonnes in '25. And as things run at the moment, I will not be much more -- and it will not be much more in '26. And this target should not be reached by filling the production line up with nonprofitable materials such as hot band. With all this being said, I have today the impression that our Board and the Chairman are being busy with themselves and issues will not -- that will not improve the results of our company. And if any, and when decisions are being made by the Board, it takes the executives forever to implement these directives. It is my firm conviction that this is not the hardware, meaning the factory in Hulamin's market position that restrains and limits its potential, but it's the people who are running the company so inefficient and so slow. I therefore ask you, Mr. Chair and the total Board, what are the next steps taken and implemented in the next 6 months to turn this company around. We, and that's being the employees and the shareholders of Hulamin have no more time to waste anymore. Thank you for your patience, Chair.

Thank you for that question. I'm not going to deal with all the aspects individually of your, but rather to acknowledge, as I did initially that your concerns and your displeasure at the Board and management in terms of performance is justified based on the history that you have seen at the moment. As to what are we doing about it, I think there's been quite a few things that we have embarked on at least since I joined the Board. Amongst those included a review of the executives and a change in the executives and some of those key activities are still continuing. It included an adoption or incorporation of external-based expertise that we brought at the executive level, which is working as consultants in the business to try and get our efficiencies to go. Part of what -- why the investment was made in the first instance in the business was to get the capacity to grow and that capacity was predicated on a demand that is there on the market and also expansion to Europe. Those are things that are under consideration at the moment, and we're looking to put them into action. Our key focus at the moment is to do step 1 and 2 of what you raised as being issues. One is get the right team in the business and get the right expertise in the business so that we can get the stock to the market. If we can't do that, then we shouldn't be in business or rather we shouldn't be in Hulamin at all because in my books, there shouldn't be anything that stops us from doing that. And that's receiving a high level, a high degree of focus by the Board at the moment where we're monitoring things on a monthly basis to ensure that we can get what we want to do. We have faced some challenges at the moment, which are technical in nature, and they are not people driven, simply just technical problems that we've had, which necessitated that we get external expertise into the business to try and resolve them. That work is ongoing. And I think so far, it has been effective, and we are getting over those technical problems. It is our intention, as I said to you, to make sure that we improve in terms of our production and our sales, which is down in the market. And if we get that right, you will see a huge change in the company. It's as simple as that. There are no magic that we need to do and the things that we're going to do are there pretty much. So I don't know -- there are things that I'd like to say to you, Mr. [indiscernible], about me personally, but I don't think it's necessary here. Suffice for me to say that as a Board, we are making a commitment that we hope that you will see some of the changes that are coming. If we fail, we'll be sitting here -- we shouldn't be sitting here with you repeating the same thing next year. So that's for me as Chairman.

Thank you very much. As you said. Yes, I think it actually is quite simple. Sorry to say that. I don't agree with you when you say it's a technical driven problem and not a people. Honestly I truly believe it's people driven. The product is a very, very good product and is recognized through the world. And you have the people in the plant that actually know how to do things. If certain things don't work, I think you made an incredible mistake of taking the responsibility [indiscernible]. I would not be able to [indiscernible] you need -- you always need this technical assistance, and you didn't take it. And now in the second and -- third and fourth quarter, basically Hulamin paid the bill for, let's say, whatever happened in your filtration plant, et cetera, is not a technical issue. It's a people-driven problem. So we only have to look at people here. We don't have to look at the equipment at Hulamin. That's my firm point of view.

Yes. Mr. [indiscernible], I think I -- may I just remind you about our discussions outside this. When I met you, I've answered quite precisely in more detail some of your concerns that you're doing now. you're asking the same questions and expressing the same concerns for that matter. So I suppose you're doing this for the benefit of everybody else here and for the record purpose, which I acknowledge, it's your right to do that. But I did at the time, inform you that we are seriously working to improve the expertise into the organization and informed you that we've infused 3 expert people that are in there, including our own local [indiscernible] Geof to try and get those things over the line and that we've got a continuous strategy of improving on that lack of technical capacity. But when I say there are technical problems in the plant, there are technical problems, which we -- for which we brought in these skills to try and fix at the moment, which is the problem that you're finding. So suffice for me to say that work has already started. We're doing that at the moment, and we hope, not hope, we are confident that we'll get the other side of the equation. And if we can do that, there should be nothing else that stands in our way because the market is there. We'll produce the goods and get them to the market. And that's what I'm hoping that we'll achieve in the medium term. Okay. We got any more questions on that?

[indiscernible]

Sorry, I'd hate to be specific in terms of time, but meaning we should get over this problem this year and start producing to the level that we need to do.

[indiscernible]

Like I said, it's problems that we know are there. We brought in people. I don't expect them to take years to fix it. And I expect them to fix these problems and for us to get over this problem and start producing at the level that the plant is structured to produce this year to start evidence that we can do that, not next year.

We've got 3 more questions on the line. I think the last question relating to culture at Hulamin has essentially been dealt with. So I'll move away from that one. The one relates to Hulamin Extrusion, and I'll read what the question is. Extrusion has posted operating losses of ZAR 295 million and is now being disposed. In contrast, Wispeco had a solid -- has been a solid performer. Can the Chair please explain why Extrusion has underperformed Wispeco to such a market extent?

I might need some assistance. Geof, do you want to take this one? If you can?

[indiscernible]

Do the best you can. Otherwise, I'll speak to the other members.

Look, I really think the difference is that the business plan that Wispeco had was very different to the business plan that Hulamin had. The business plan that Wispeco had, it's a very vertically integrated approach from distribution right through to the manufacturer of extrusion, but also importing from China, in particular, to fill out the market. So they have a very well-focused business plan that works on extrusion. As far as Hulamin is concerned, I think our strategy has been to wind it down, wind it down as with all due respect as slowly as possible. And then finally, to exit the business. We have not put capital into that business at all and that's what it needs to do. And we've been reserving our capital and prioritizing our capital for the Rolled Products business and particularly the Can business. And that's meant that extrusion has been starved of capital. And as a result, it's wound down to the point we need to sell.

[indiscernible] Extrusion, do you mind us how much cash we're expecting to get out of the transaction?

Do you want to take that?

Unwind of the [indiscernible] stock and So what's the amount?

[indiscernible] The money that it will [indiscernible] along with the [indiscernible]

How much cash is Hulamin going to bank as a consequence of...

It will be over $100 million mark...

ZAR 200 million, ZAR 300 million [indiscernible]

No. So it will be between ZAR 100 million and ZAR 150 million mark.

Sorry. Can I come in there, Pravashni? I think that's not 100% correct. Yes, you get your stock for ZAR 100 million sold, but I mean that's not kind of income or whatever, you just get your stock out, ZAR 100 million. You get ZAR 10 million for the company itself, which is very little. But I think you also have written off in the last financial year, the loan from the, let's say, head office to Extrusions of now ZAR 76 million that has been written off and ZAR 56 million.

Yes. So that wasn't specifically the loan that was written off. That was our investment in Extrusion business, raw products investment in the Extrusion business.

So from a business point of view, let's say, I would run a business. I've written off ZAR 76 million, and I now get ZAR 10 million as a sales price. And then you sell all your stock, the creditors and debtors -- but I mean, basically, yes, that's the situation.

So if you look at it collectively from an equity point of view for the shares and over the last few years, if you take into account that extrusions has made a loss, that net equity is fairly low. What was written off was not your loan account at all. That remains intact as is. And where we were a year ago versus where we are in terms of that loan account, it's decreased substantially. That's how we were able to recover the rest of that loan if you take into account, we take over the debtors and the creditors. That net effect is still giving Hulamin a net cash figure, to settle the loan that we may have. The 10 million shares, if that's in response to the very little net equity that's there. And it's not only because we've written it down. It's really merely because of the continued losses Extrusions has made. And even if you didn't sell it for this value, the longer you keep it, the more it erodes value.

How many -- what's the headcount reduction as a consequence of the sale of Extrusion?

Can you just clarify your question?

How many [indiscernible] will be taken out of Hulamin Group, as a consequence of the sale of Extrusion?

Okay. So Hulamin Group, because we're selling the shares of the company, the employees will go with the company is approximately 230 from the group numbers.

What percentage of your aluminum used is made up of used beverage cans? And what type of discount to the primary aluminum price are the UBCs purchased at?

Thanks, Chair. The discount or the price of the aluminum ranges from various percentages of LME dependent on the quality of the used beverage cans. So there's a wide range. And basically, the range that I can give you right now flows from about 55% up to about 65%, even closer to 70% depends on the quality of the UBCs itself. With regards to percentage-wise, I'll answer it slightly different is that we right now are to -- it's not only focusing on used beverage cans. We also take what we call class scrap from our can makers, all 4 can makers. So the volume that we're basically looking at in a range, you can look at just below -- between 35,000 and 40,000 tonnes per annum right now, with the intentions to grow that and bring that closer to the range, 50,000.

All right. Any more questions online?

If I can, Mark, you also know that your so-called class scrip doesn't come at such a discount. I mean you basically pay I say, 85%, 87% on that. So the benefit is much different. I think the question was how much -- how much of post-consumer UBC scrap is now really being used. I mean there is certainly somebody in the room who can answer that question. And maybe you would give them the chance to do that.

I think so far this year, on average, we've been using approximately 1,000 tonnes of UBCs per month. But that trajectory had to be curtailed because of various issues in terms of working capital. I think you've touched on those questions, Mr. [indiscernible], in terms of working capital. So we had to manage our working capital carefully. And unfortunately, some of the UBCs that we had planned to buy and consume, we had to curtail that. But from a running rate, we are running close between 1,000 and 1,200 tonnes a month, which is much higher than we've ever achieved as a business in terms of that rate. And we've been able to turn around our capability of consuming that scrap. What is constraining us is the ability to buy the scrap right now.

I want to try and get to reading the results now of the voting, if I can.

I just have 2 questions.

Yes, sure. Go ahead.

And I'll give you both questions and then you can proceed if you could -- we have an update on the Containers business. And then last, what the plans are in terms of our debt balance for the year? Is there any intention to reduce it this year? And by how much, if possible? If we could just understand what the thinking is around that, please.

Thank you. I'll let Mark answer the questions on the container, and I'll deal with our strategy on debt management effectively. I think our focus has been in creating sufficient headroom on our group facilities that we've got at the moment, and we've done that. Part of the structural problems that we have in here is that we are conscious of the fact that whilst at the time we made the decision to build the plant, we're quite confident that we should be able to get cash in the short term to repay that, it hasn't panned out to be correct. As a result, we got ourselves locked into a situation where you've used short-term funding for your capital situation. And as a result, you've got this natural squeeze on your working capital. Part of what we're going to embark on is to structure that because when you structurally then you're getting into a structured reduction facility that's going to happen. And that's part and parcel of what we're going to do during the course of this year so that we can be a bit more optimum in terms of how we manage our working capital because part of the challenges or part of the requirements in this business is not just looking at the stock and worrying that it's too much, how you buy when you buy and the mix that you do your product all goes into your working capital management system. And part of what the Board is contemplating to ensure that we put a measurement towards that for incentivizing is let's look at that because then it will focus on how we eventually are able to get a proper return on our working capital. At this stage, I think we're getting a bit of laying curves. And we know what the problems are, which I think for me is the starting point. And we are now working on solutions to fix that. So I can't give you a quantum-based answer in terms of we're going to do just by this. Suffice for me to say that our focus has been increasing the headroom or making sure that we've got headroom, and we've got great focus and clear-cut initiatives that we're going to take in that regard. And part of the other initiatives that I've mentioned around sorting out our funding and structuring ourselves into longer-term funding, which can go on a reduction basis and also creating a capacity on more working capital funding to fund the growth in the business. Those are things that strategically we intend to focus and put them in place because it's not going to happen naturally. It's not a case of just pumping up the production and then you can go and sell. It does consume more capital. It does require a little bit more investment and all of that requires careful coordinated actions from the Board and management, and we are engaging that through that.

[indiscernible] Remind the shareholders online. The voting will close shortly. Kindly, if you have not done so, kindly submit your voting papers at proxy at Computershare. The e-mail is reflected in the notice and in your proxy form. Thank you.

Let me just answer the question on the container. I forgotten about it, sorry.

Okay. Just to remind the shareholders, the business itself was operations was closed last year June as reflected when we reported. The assets, I'm pleased to report have been sold. We've received the proceeds for the plant and equipment. We're busy with the transfer for the land now as we speak. We were hoping that within the next 3 months, it's been registered. And within the next 3 months, it will come through.

Okay. Thank you Mr [indiscernible]. A final question, then I'll close.

[indiscernible] Question -- it's fine. Okay. Got this. I think the Board of Hulamin should be very happy to have your financial knowledge and talent on the Board. So I think that's really a very important part of the business, the financial aspect. And so to have you on the Board in that respect is fantastic. But however, in our industry, if I may say, what any other company would do, they would look at its raw material in stock. That's what I said earlier. That's the first thing you do. You sit on scrap and other material, which is basically the second closest to cash. You're looking at funding and you're looking at this and you're looking at that. At the same time, you got in your backyard piles of this stuff close to cash. So in this industry, you would immediately turn it around as much as you can in tonnage. Certainly, you will not scrap now virgin metal, but you a your scrap, you would convert that or you would actually sell it for scrap, just to actually get pressure of your cash flow. So what you're doing at the moment, I must say, not you, sorry, Mr. Chair, but what is done at the moment makes no sense from our industry standard.

Okay. Again, Mr. [indiscernible], I think you're right in one dimension, but I do believe that it's a combination of things that we're going to have to do. It's not just purely just the stock. So I'm not going to debate the aspect. You obviously have got quite a lot of knowledge in the market on that. And I take your comments on board, and thank you. for that guidance, we'll definitely use it as part and parcel of our input. This is the second time you've told me, and we've taken it on board just for the record. Right. Sure, go ahead.

Regarding extrusion, you have management change in the last 10 years? Or was it just the same management?

In extrusion, Mark, did we change? And did you have any management changes in extrusion over the past years?

Yes, we have.

And when was the last change?

The last change was last year, I think you stand correctly, but last year January. So in my 2 years that I'm around, yes, within straight after a year, there was a change.

So -- and it's not been successful at all.

No. And if you listen to how Geof articulated there, the core reason there is you need -- firstly, you're operating in a different market, and it's not our core. There's been 0 -- I can confirm there's been 0 capital investment in the plant itself. And yes, it's just -- it's not viable for us at all in that way. So we did make initiatives to be able to try to look at our cost base, look at other various options. But the only option that we had was either try to get a seller who's once the -- has got the aspirations to actually put money in and operate it differently and more like an entrepreneur or our other option was to close.

And is the present management is going to be part of the buyout company?

All employees go with the company right now with regards to whether the company is going to retain that current...

No, the management. I'm not talking about the workers. I'm talking about the CEO and the management team, are they going to be part of the buying -- going to be buying the shares of the company?

No, the guy that's actually acting at the same time, he is on contract, so he leaves and you've got like middle management on a level there. There's no structure high-level CEO or anything in that sense.

And why doesn't the buyer... [Audio Gap]

According to JSE laws, you have the election to be named and not to be named. He chose not to be named. So according to JSE and since now that he's made that declaration directly to JSE, we won't release his identification unless he does go to JSE.

So this management is going to the Competition Commission. It has been submitted to the Com Comp, hasn't it? I think that's one of the CPs work.

Yes.

Yes. So that's a public disclosure.

So he has an election to it and he has made a written right up to JSE.

But he's disclosing his name to Com Comp at some point. The beneficial ownership will be in the public domain. So why don't we know it now?

It's not for us, and it's not our right to disclose.

Debating that. I see your point, by the way, on the fact that it's coming out this way, but it's said. But we can only comply with the JSE ruling that says we shouldn't do that. The fact that it's superfluous in the sense that it's being announced elsewhere, I guess you could say that, but there's a rule set that within which we need to operate.

I'd like just as a matter of courtesy, you could find me that JSE [indiscernible]. I'd really like to see it...

Yes. No problem. I think we got that from our sponsors. So it will be -- okay. We're going to read the results now. The Company Secretary will read the results for us.

The details of the results will follow at tomorrow's since. So I will only focus on the actual 4 votes. Resolution 1.1, reelection of M. Gounder has passed with 83.6 votes -- 83.6% votes. Reelection of Dr. Bonnie Mehlomakulu has also passed with 96.5% votes. The reelection of Vusi Khumalo has also at 96.5%. The reelection of Linda Yanta as a member of the Audit Committee has passed at 99.9%. The reelection of Zanele Monnakgotla as a member of the Audit Committee has also passed at 99.9%. The election of Dr. Bonnie Mehlomakulu as a member of the Audit Committee has also passed at 96.4%. Moving on to the Social and Ethics Committee. The election of Vusi Khumalo has passed at 96.5%. The election of Dr. Bonnie Mehlomakulu has passed at 96.5% and the election of Zanele Monnakgotla has also passed at 99.7%. The appointment of the auditors has also passed at 99.9%. The nonbinding advisory votes have passed, although they are below the 75% threshold, they have passed at 73.6%. The implementation report has also passed at 73.57%. The authorization to sign documents to give a fit to the above resolution has passed at 99.9%. The 2 special resolutions, one pertaining to the NED fees have also passed at 99.9%. The financial assistant has passed at 83.6%. All resolutions put before the meeting, the AGM Chair have passed.

Thank you for that. And again, may I express my sincere gratitude and thanks for your engagement. It's difficult. It does get difficult, but it is necessary, and we respect that. So on that note and to my fellow Board members, thank you for attendance and management. This meeting is adjourned. Thank you.