HUTCHMED (China) Limited (HCM) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello, everyone. Welcome to HUTCHMED 2025 Full Year Results and Business Update. Today, we're going to go through our results in a formal presentation by our senior management, and then it will be followed by Q&A. Before I start, let's turn to Page 2 with our usual safe harbor statement. Basically, the performance and results of our operation contained within this presentation are historical in nature, and the past performance is no guarantee of future results. The information in this presentation is subject to changes and HUTCHMED has no liability for any loss arising from the use of this content. My name is David. I'm the Head of IR of HUTCHMED. We are very happy that we're going to have our senior management to present the results. Let me hand off the time to our acting Chief Executive Officer and Chief Financial Officer, Johnny Cheng. Johnny?

Thank you, David, and thank you, everyone, for attending HUTCHMED's 2025 results webcast. Joining me today is our Deputy CFO, Lorenso Chiu, who will give us an overview of our financial performance. Our Head of Commercial, George Yuan, who will share with you our commercial performance; and our Head of Discovery, Dr. Guangxiu Dai, who will provide an update on our R&D pipeline progress. Next slide, please. A quick highlight of our 2025 achievements. We are pleased with our ex-China FRUZAQLA sales, which had 26% growth versus last year, resulting in $366 million in in-market sales. More importantly, FRUZAQLA has rolled out to over 38 countries already. As for our China sales, it has rebounded in the second half of the year, achieving 21% in-market sales growth versus our first half interim results. In terms of our cash position, we have about $1.4 billion, which allows us to accelerate our global ATTC development and provide resources to explore potential in-licensing and M&A opportunities. On the right-hand side, we have now advanced 2 of our ATTC programs into the clinic, which we believe will have huge market potential. In addition, we are pursuing potential business development opportunities with multinational companies. In terms of the progress of our pipeline, I will leave it to Dr. Dai to share with you later on. I will now turn it over to Lorenso for the financial review and outlook. Lorenso?

Yes. Thanks, Johnny. And let me give an overview of our key financial highlights for 2025. Total oncology revenue was $286 million. This includes $71 million R&D-related upfront and milestone revenues. For oncology products revenue, as Johnny already mentioned, there was a rebound from our China oncology products, which recorded 21% growth in in-market sales in the second half, while FRUZAQLA continues its global expansion. On net income, we recorded a profit of $457 million for 2025, mainly due to the SHPL divestment gain of $416 million. Excluding this onetime gain, our core operations remain profitable. Next, please. Our R&D expenses for 2025 was 148 million. Expenses were lower versus 2024 as many of our late-stage trials are in the completion stage with multiple NDAs now awaiting approvals. In addition, we began shifting our investments into our early-stage ATTC assets with 2 candidates already in the clinic. Our cash position has been further strengthened to about $1.4 billion. That positions us well to accelerate both investments and developments of our ATTC programs. Next, looking forward to 2026, our oncology revenue guidance is in the range of $330 million to $450 million. This reflects a solid growth from 2025, driven by strong growth in our China commercial products with contributions from new indications as well as FRUZAQLA continued scope expansions. In addition, let's consider the potential partnership opportunities for our new drug candidates, including ATTC. Now I'd like to hand over to George to give an overview of the China commercial.

Thanks, Lorenso. First, let's look at the FRUZAQLA, our business partner, Takeda's performance. They delivered a very strong 2025 with 26% growth, and if you look at the Q2 -- the second half, the second half, the growth actually is accelerated mainly due to the market expansion we launched some of the new markets like Portugal, Belgium and South Korea. Also, the strong Japanese performance and some of the Europe performance uptake also contribute a second half strong growth. This reflects a market needs for safe and effective medicine in the later-line mCRC treatment. Also the physicians experience enhancement and also the reimbursement progress contributed to those growth. If you look at the U.S., we do see some of the headwind, mainly due to the medical Part D redesign. Next slide. For China performance under the brand name ELUNATE -- in China, we posted a minus 13% growth, mainly due to a soft performance in the first half as we scale back some of the sales force after our GC second line setback and also some of the productivity improvement programs. But we successfully turned around the business with more efficient approach to focus on the top-tier cities and hospitals. In second half, we delivered 33% growth and successfully renewed our online deal with no price cut and include our EMC second line. Also, we submit NDA for RCC, those are all contribute to our future growth. Next slide. If you look at the ORPATHYS and SULANDA, which is 11% of our total 2025 in-market sales, they are relatively soft due to the fierce competition. For SULANDA, we also face multiple PRRT those nuclear medicine moving to the clinical stage and fighting with us with limited patient pool. Although we have some kind of headwinds, we do see some progress. First is for ORPATHYS, we have a first-line METex skipping, adding to the NRDL. Also, we have SACHI approval to drive future growth. Our SAFFRON/SANOVO readout what we are expecting in this year. For SULANDA, we maintain our market leader position in NET performance in the TKI markets. Also, we have renewed our NRDL with no price cut. Our Phase III PDAC study is on track. Next slide. We are building on behalf -- in addition to our solid tumor, we are building our hematology portfolio. We get our first medicine, first-in-class treatment for EZH2 mutation and follicular lymphoma approved. This is our first hematology products launched in China. This also gives us a beachhead in the hematology, and also the TAZVERIK include our China's first commercial insurance drug list. We are one of the 19th medicine including drug list. This gives us a kind of future growth opportunity to explore the commercial insurance. On the other side, those TAZVERIK provide us a beachhead in the hematology to leverage these products, we can engage our hematology opinion leaders, establish our core team with expertise in the hematology to prepare the future hematology launch. [Sovleplenib] prepared to launch early 2027, and our ITP is already resubmit and wAIHA indicating will potentially submit in the first half of 2026. Also, we have additional pipeline in the hematology, the IDH1 and 2 inhibitor for AML and also the BTK in the DLBCL also start our Phase III study. So in long run, we were aiming to build our very strong hematology portfolio. Now let's turn over to our Dr. Dai.

Thank you, George. I'll provide an update on our R&D pipeline progress. The 2025 proved to be a great year for our pipeline, featured by fast regulatory movement and high-impact clinical data. We have achieved major progresses across our core areas, oncology, hematology and our next-generation technology platforms. In oncology, savolitinib has reached critical regulatory and clinical milestones in both China and global markets. SACHI was approved in China in a speed record for second-line EGFR mutant, MET-amplified non-small cell lung cancer. SANOVO and SAFFRON completed Phase III enrollment and third-line gastric cancer filed NDA in China in late December 2025. In hematology, savolitinib, our Syk inhibitor has solidified its position with ITP NDA resubmission and robust positive Phase III data readout in wAIHA. Perhaps most excitingly, our antibody target therapy conjugate ATTC platform is now a clinical reality with our lead assets, A251 and 580 moving into global clinical development. A251 has started patient enrollment in China and in the U.S., closely followed by our second ATTC drug candidate, 580, which was first dosed in patients just yesterday. Beyond this, we are seeing broad success with Fruquintinib EMC included in NRDL, Fruquintinib RCC and Fanregratinib, IHCC gaining NDA acceptance and Surufatinib moving into Phase III for first-line PDAC. Next, I'll dive deep into how this progress is define our growth trajectory. Next slide, please. With savolitinib, we have dual focuses here, maintaining leadership in China and expanding the global footprint. In non-small cell lung cancer savolitinib has been approved in China for first- and second-line METex14 alteration as a single agent. For second line, the combination of savolitinib and osimertinib represents a promising chemo-free oral treatment strategy to address mechanisms of resistance due to MET alteration following EGFR TKI treatment in this advancing setting. In this setting, SACHI has been approved in China and SAFFRON is expected to have a readout in mid-2026. For first-line SANOVO Phase III study of savolitinib and osimertinib will read out in the first half -- in the second half of 2026 or early 2027. Savolitinib is more than just a lung cancer drug. We also reached an important milestone in gastric cancer with China NDA for third-line MET-amplified gastric cancer being accepted and priority review granted. Next, please. The data from SACHI is compelling. In 2026 Lancet publication, SACHI study demonstrated a clinically meaningful OS benefit, 22.9 months versus 7.9 months in ITT patients who didn't receive subsequent MET inhibitor treatment. The hazard ratio of 0.32 is a clear indicator of OS benefit. Earlier, we have presented at ASCO that combination of savolitinib and osimertinib shows a clinically meaningful improvement in overall response rate and duration of response versus chemotherapy as second-line treatment. In particular, SACHI demonstrated clinically and statistically meaningful PFS improvement in ITT patients as well as in patients who failed third-generation EGFR TKI treatment. Next slide, please. Turning to Sovleplenib, a Syk inhibitor. Our focus is on addressing the large unmet medical needs in immune-mediated hematological disorders. In ITP, we have resubmitted our NDA in China. NDA has been accepted and granted with the breakthrough therapy designation and priority review. The clinical profile of Sovleplenib is highly competitive in the 3-year follow-up study, the median duration of exposure is over 86 weeks. The cumulative durable response reaches over 66 weeks. Over 51% of patients achieved durable response. This is highly consistent with 48.4% durable response rate in the double-blind phase of ESLIM-01 study. Sovleplenib shows a superior durable response rate compared to many existing ITP therapies, including Syk inhibitor fostamatinib and BTK inhibitor, Rilzabrutinib as well as Efgartigimod and FcRn drug approved for ITP in Japan. Sovleplenib's durable response rate is comparable to or better than TPO/TPO -RA drugs. A key differentiation for sovleplenib is its safety, particularly regarding vascular risks. It's well known that TPO/TPO -RA drugs have been associated with thromboembolic and thrombolic complications in ITP patients. Sovleplenib clearly demonstrates a highly competitive clinical profile in the safety and efficacy. Next slide, please. The ITP market potential is significant and growing. In China alone, there are over 250,000 actively treated ITP patients, representing an addressable market of USD 500 million to USD 700. Next, please. Next is our innovation engine, the ATTC platform. This platform is designed to combine the precise delivery of antibodies with the potency of target inhibitors. A251 is a first-in-class ATTC consisting of a potent PI3K/PIKK inhibitor conjugated to an HER2 antibody with a DAR 4 through a cleavable linker. Next slide. A251 targets a massive global market across several HER2-expressing solid tumors, including breast cancer, gastric, gynecologic cancer and many other HER2-expressing cancer types. Next, please. The scientific and strategic importance of this platform targeting the PAM pathway cannot be overstated. The PAM pathway is the most frequently altered pathway in solid tumors appearing in 38% to 50% of all tumor cases, much higher than the other major drivers like RAS, HER2, EGFR and ALK. For instance, PAM alterations are often seen in breast cancer, gastric, ovarian and cancers, prostate cancers. This gives A251 and other assets from this platform a massive total addressable market. Next slide. While small molecule inhibitors targeting PAM pathway and PIKK pathway have historically faced issues with high toxicities and poor [indiscernible] PK properties, it is always challenging to balance clinical efficacy and safety. The ATTC platform is designed to reduce these on-target off-tumor toxicities by delivering the payload directly to the tumors. The A251 payload is a potent inhibitor targeting multiple nodes in PAM pathway and PI3K pathway with high affinities in PI3K alpha, other PI3K isoforms and mTOR, ATR and ATM. Its biochemical profile significantly differentiates from the profiles of the others targeting PAM and PIKK. We believe this is an advantage of the ATTC approach. The payload demonstrates high kinase specificity in a broad kinase panel hitting targets in the 2 families only. Next slide, A251 demonstrates strong HER2-dependent inhibitory activities, meaning IC50 is in the range of 0.2 nanomolar in HER2-positive cells regardless of PAM status in a single-digit nanomolar in HER2 low compared to 36 nanomolar in HER2 non cells. The HER2 expression level really determines how much of the payload is delivered to the tumor cells and how potent A251 can be. And crucially, A251 exhibits a bystander effect that allows it to overcome HER2 heterogeneity by killing neighboring HER2 non cells. The preclinical data has been published at 2025 EORTC conference. Next slide, please. A251 has started a global Phase I study in the U.S. and in China. The dose escalation and building dose expansion and optimization is essentially one study in China and U.S. following the same protocol. We believe this is the fastest way to define a global dose. The trial targets HER2-expressing solid tumors with PAM status being tested retro respectively. This will inform the biomarker strategy for future development. The strategy includes utilizing A251 as a monotherapy for late-line treatment and exploring combination therapies in frontline setting. Next slide. We are accelerating discovery and development of ATTC and ADCs and this is the next-generation innovation time line. Our second ATTC asset 580 has started the Phase I opening sites and recruiting patients in China and in the U.S. The third ATTC asset 830 is anticipated to enter global Phase I this year. We are committed to maintain the momentum from the innovative platform in the coming years. Next slide. Looking ahead next 15 months, the upcoming milestones include for savolitinib, we expect readouts for both SAFFRON and SANOVO. We anticipate the label expansion with China NDA approval for the third-line gastric cancer indication. For Sovleplenib, our Phase III trial in wAIHA successfully met its primary endpoint, clearing the path for the next regulatory filing, which will happen in the coming months. Our next major milestone will be the China NDA approval for ITP. For the innovation platform, 3 ATTCs will all be in the clinical development in 2026. Beyond these highlights today, we expect China NDA approvals for Fruquintinib, RCC and Fanregratinib in IHCC as well as Surufatinib PDAC enrollment completion within the next 15 months. We look forward to another great year. And with that, I'll turn back to our acting CEO, Johnny.

Thank you, Dr. Dai. So in summary, we are very excited about our outlook for 2026 and beyond. We have multiple potential NDA filings upcoming, so including from SAFFRON and SANOVO readouts later this year. In addition, our new hematology products are expected to drive future sales growth in China. On the innovation side, our strategic efforts will be focused on accelerating global development of our ATTC programs and at the same time, exploring business development opportunities to further validate and add value to this platform. Finally, our oncology revenue guidance of $330 million to $450 million factors in our FRUZAQLA ex-China commercial growth and the positive impact of adding new indications for Elunate. With that, I will turn it over to David to start our Q&A session.

Thank you, Johnny. Thank you, everyone, for the presentation. We will now do the Q&A session. [Operator Instructions] The first question comes from CLSA, Matthew.

Congrats on the results. I've got a few questions. First is regarding the oncology guidance in '26. In '25, you received multiple, for example, sales team restructuring kind of stuff, the growth is actually a decrease. So the '26 guidance seems to imply something 15% to 16% year-over-year oncology growth. So can you elaborate a little bit more about how I should be modeling the key drug sales for this, yes. This is my first question. Asking my question in one batch. And second thing is about the kind SAFFRON readout. Do you have any color why the top line readout has been delayed from first half to second half? And third question is -- the last question is about -- can you elaborate more on the indication of the ATTC platform the first 2 candidates into the clinic, for example, the A251 [indiscernible]. And my understanding right that is more like on the post HER2 refractory breast cancer setting what kind of setting we are looking at in the future?

Thank you, Matthew. So for the first question, I will defer to Lorenso and the second and third question is to Dr. Dai. Lorenso?

Yes. About the guidance -- Matthew, thanks for the questions. About the guidance, as you pointed out, for 2025, there was a decline in the product sales. But as you can see, in the second half, we saw a strong momentum of recovery. And we expect that this will continue in the 2026. And together, we'd like to highlight, that we're expecting more growth coming from the new indications. As you can see, we have the [indiscernible] RCC, which is currently under review. And we believe that with that approval, that will bring in more revenue and the growth. And also about the FRUZAQLA, there's a strong growth in '26 expected due to the continued expansions of Takeda. And also, we can see that there are more and more countries are now in the market. And then with that full year penetration in 2026, that will continue the growth. Johnny, do you anything you want to add?

Okay. So second and third question, Guangxiu -- Dr. Dai.

Yes. So the SAFFRON readout is expected to happen in mid-2026. And the third question, A251 now is enrolling HER2 expressing solid tumor patients not restricted to post HER2 patients.

The next question comes from Matthew Guggenbiller. Go ahead, Matthew.

Can you hear me okay?

Yes.

Great. This is Matthew, on for Alec Stranahan from Bank of America. I guess 2 questions from us. On the SAFFRON readout, you said expected May 2026. Can you maybe clarify expected location of that medical meeting versus company event? And then for ATTC readouts, can you just maybe clarify expected patient number sort of follow-up we can expect from those?

Dr. Dai?

Okay. So the SAFFRON readout will be in, like I said, in the mid-2026. We'll share the data as soon as [indiscernible] informs us of the results. What's your second question? Can you repeat your question?

Yes. In terms of initial clinical data for the ATTC assets, sort of size and scope of those in terms of patient number follow-up?

The trial is still at early stage. We don't have a definitive time line for the data readout.

Got you. And then maybe one on commercial dynamics as well. I think first half had some headwinds from off-label sales, increased generic competition and sort of sales force turnover. I guess, can you speak to how those trends are looking in the second half and whether you expect those to stabilize throughout '26?

Okay. Matthew, we invite our Head of Commercial, George, to answer this question.

We -- because we cannot -- for the GC last year, we faced some GC setback. The indication is not yet approved. That's why if you look at the sales force, the original setting is we prepare for the GC. So the field force is a little bit overcapacity when we lost the GC indication. That's why we rationalized the team and also we try to focus more on the top hospitals. And that's why we have some kind of [indiscernible] the team, which lead to some kind of performance issue in the Q1 and the first half -- but everything is moving into the right direction. The turnover is significantly reduced. Also the vacancy is already filled. That's why we have a very strong team now, and those kind of momentum will carry over to the 2026.

No follow-up question, then David.

Next question is from Cavendish, Adam.

So a couple of questions. So yes, just in today's announcement, I noticed that you mentioned that AstraZeneca continues its efforts to increase MET testing as a standard of care in late-stage non-small cell lung cancer. And could you comment on how the pace of MET testing adoption might influence the potential uptake of savolitinib in the [indiscernible] setting in China and then globally, if SAFFRON is successful?

Yes. So Dr. Dai, yes.

We do not have additional information on this question.

Okay. No problem. Just on the second question then. So on the ATTC platform, could you elaborate on your partnering strategy, you are pursuing with the multinational pharmaceutical companies? And more specifically, are you considering out-licensing certain assets earlier in development to accelerate validation of the platform while potentially regaining greater control over other assets to maximize longer-term value?

Well, I think I will answer these question. In terms of our strategy for the partnering with the ATTC program, first of all, I think as you can see, we have a strong pipeline already building up for this ATTC platform. So we now have positive responses from potential partners, and many of which are multinational companies. We have ongoing discussion with all those potential partners. So with our large portfolio that we anticipate that we will build on, I think we want to advance and accelerate this development. So hence, we have considered to potentially license out some of these programs. So also, in addition, I think we also have this AI capability, which we can further develop some more candidates into our platform. As a result, I think this is why we also consider potential partnering opportunities. Furthermore, I think as this platform is really one of our next wave, we would also like to validate this through this partnering strategy.

That's great. And I guess just if I could try my hand on final question is just sort of maybe a broader one. As we think about the HUTCHMED story going forward, how should investors balance the contribution of the existing commercial portfolio against the emerging opportunity from the ATTC platform? And in particular, do you see the next phase of value creation increasingly driven by the pipeline and the platform assets rather than the marketed product?

Well, we see, as we have our second wave of, as we mentioned, hematology asset that will be going into the commercial side that would add into our existing commercial -- already commercialized portfolio. So that would be increasing our balance of our investment in R&D. So we will continue to ramp up our R&D expenditure. Last year, in 2025, in terms of our investment in R&D was probably the lowest in recent years, mainly due to a lot of programs we're waiting for approval -- pending for approval, and we are also at the early stage of development of this ATTC program. But going forward, we do take this accelerate our global development strategy for ATTC. And at the same time, with the expanded commercial assets, we will be able to generate more income, so we can balance out our ATC investment.

The next question is coming from UBS, Chen Chen.

Well, my first question is on surufatinib. We see that it has started Phase III patient enrollment. So I'm interested in like partner strategy. So are you considering like BD like after data readout? Or you are now in talks with any potential partners right now because the Phase III will enroll like a few hundred people, so it would be very expensive.

Okay. I will answer from a strategic side, and then I will invite Dr. Dai to comment further. We have no -- at the moment, no intention to partner this program out. But Dr. Dai in terms of the status of our development, you can -- perhaps you can comment a little bit.

Sure, Johnny. So the Phase III first patient in has -- was achieved in December 2025, and we hope to finish the Phase III enrollment in the next 15 months. And we hope that surufatinib can provide another therapeutic option for the first-line PDAC patients and agree with Johnny that currently, we don't have our licensing.

I see. That's very clear. Well, so my second question is on your like R&D guidance in this year. So we noticed that you have started like a few Phase III trials such as like surufatinib as we discussed just now and also like BTK, DLBCL and also a few like early-stage trials such as ATTC candidates. So I'm just wondering like what's your guidance for your R&D expense this year?

Okay. Just to clarify, we do not give out any public guidance on R&D expenditure. But as we mentioned that 2025 was the lowest level. We do intend to ramp up, as you also mentioned, a number of programs that we are actually advancing as well as our strategy on accelerating our ATTC program. So going forward in the next few years, we do want to ramp up to a very reasonable kind of higher level of investment on R&D in the range of $250 million to $300 million, I think that would be the ideal level of R&D investment. Of course, we will be -- stick to our commitment to the investors that we will be profitable in a sustainable situation. So therefore, we will be investing as we will be able to generate sufficient commercial income to cover our R&D investment.

Okay. Great. Maybe the last question for me. So I saw that you have a very strong cash position by the end of 2025. And you also mentioned that you are planning to do some like in-license and also some M&A. So can you please elaborate a bit more on that side?

Yes. So yes, $1.4 billion of cash on hand. So our priority is, of course, as we mentioned, accelerating our global development for ATTC program. We are open because with these cash resources, we are open if the opportunity arise for in-licensing late-stage commercial assets or potentially some assets that is complementary to our portfolio. But I think M&A and this in-licensing opportunity, we are open-minded because we are in a good financial position, but we have no fixed target at this stage.

The next question comes from Panmure, Julie Simmonds.

I was just wondering on the move into hematology products, whether this changes what you're investing in sales and marketing and what changes to the sales infrastructure it requires.

Thank you, Julie. So George, would you like to comment on this?

Because hematology is a very specialized team, that's why we already start up a new business unit with dedicated sales, marketing and medical capability to address this kind of market opportunity. And with the future pipeline adding to the business, we will expand the team.

Lovely. And then secondly, just on the impact in the U.S. of the Medicare Part D changes. Just wondering how much impact you expect that to have on sales in 2026, whether you can make any comment?

Sorry, I didn't hear your question. Could you repeat again?

Yes. Just questioning about the changes to Medicare Part D that went on in the states that are obviously impacting your sales there. And if you've got any thoughts on what impact that might have into 2026?

We have received no new changes so far. The impact factors into 2025 has been reflected. Despite that impact for U.S., I mean, we still achieved a 26% growth for our food sector through our partners. So we do anticipate that in -- sorry, 2026, we will be expanding rolling out of all the ex U.S. countries. So far, already 38 countries have been commercialized in terms of this food sector. And we continue to see that the NRDL in those countries will be expanded. So the total impact for ex-China sales, we see that U.S. will continue to grow, but also outside of U.S., that is the key driver also.

Next question coming from Daiwa, Wilfred Yuen.

I want to follow up on the revenue guidance that range from $330 million to $450 million, which is a wide range versus last year anyway. Maybe can you give us more color as to the breakdown between the oncology product sales and the R&D milestones payment? Are you expecting some additional milestone maybe to hit the high end of the guidance $450 million?

Lorenso, would you like to tackle this question? I will add to it.

Yes. Further to what I explained earlier, I think you can look in this way because we do not give any guidance of particular items within this revenue guidance. But for your information, I think it will be worth to note that in 2025, our revenue has included some of the upfront and milestones, which if you exclude those, the base would be lower. And then for the 2026, the guidance reflect a kind of a solid growth from 2025. In addition, I think some of the factors that I mentioned, the growth from our China -- China products with the new label expansions and also the new indications would drive further growth. So I hope that could address the questions. Johnny, do you want to add some more comments on this?

So Wilfred, I think basically, you should take the guidance as the middle of this range, right? So the lower end potentially, if some of the -- at this, I think the low end of the guidance is where we are very confident, and we are also very confident that to achieve high of this guidance. So $330 million has factored in, as Lorenso said, many of the organic growth. In addition, we also factor in for a base kind of baseline growth for our ex-China sales, which, of course, is run by our partner. So conservatively speaking, we are very conservative to give this low-end guidance, but you can expect the midrange of that is almost like a 36% growth. between $330 million to $450 million is about [indiscernible] that is more like 36% growth versus this year's 2025 performance. So I think this is a guidance that basically can reflect the business growth as well as the potential if we have licensing, of course, we won't take all the upfront income. We will potentially apportion part of the upfront income and factoring into the upside.

Next question coming from Goldman Sachs, Paul Choi.

My question is on savolitinib and assuming clinical success coming up here with SAFFRON, can you maybe comment on how you think Tagrisso, savolitinib combination would be sequenced in the treatment paradigm given the recent launch of J&J's RYBREVANT bispecific? And just how you think about guidelines evolving directing oral options versus bispecific options?

Yes. Thank you. So George, do you have any color to share on this?

Yes. This is -- I think this first thing is this provides an oral -- 2 oral products for those EGFR-resistant MET amplification patients. So this is -- we provide very efficacy and as well as convenience. But we do know the J&J bispecific antibody do provide another option, but all depends on doctors' perception regarding how the treatment paradigm shift is still precision medicine win the game or not. The testing, the secondary testing win the game or not. So it depends on how AstraZeneca is shaping the [indiscernible].

Thank you, Paul. I see a couple of questions in the chat box. Some of that actually has been kind of answered already. There's a question -- Johnny, the question is what is the thought about the need to decide appointment of a permanent CEO? Or are we happy with the current situation?

Okay. I think we have -- the company has made an announcement in August. I think no status change as yet regarding the announcement. So Dr. SU is focusing on his health right now. And yes, so we have this interim arrangement. And as you can see, we have a lot of talents within our management team. Today, we have Dr. Dai and also we have Lorenso Chiu joining this webcast. So the company has been running for 20-odd years, and we have a very loyal and also capable talents within our talent pool. So -- and everything has been running very, very smoothly and also progressing in terms of our pipeline as well as our commercial strategy, everything it is now working as per plan.

Thank you, Johnny. I don't see any outstanding questions right now [Operator Instructions] There's another question talking about SAFFRON readout delay from first half to second half. But as Dr. Dai has mentioned, the most likely scenario will be around mid-'26. If no further questions, Johnny, would you like to do a concluding remark?

Thank you again, everyone, for spending the time to attend this webcast. And if you have further questions, please by all means to feed through our IR colleagues. Thank you.

Thank you, everyone. And this concludes our results presentation. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.