Hyperscale Data, Inc. (GPUS) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Well, excellent, excellent. Amos, we'll get started in a minute. We're just letting people join real quick.

Okay.

Joe, can you hear me okay? We all good, audio-wise?

Audio-wise, it sounds fine.

Excellent.

Okay. It looks like we've slowed. There will probably be people popping in and out, but it looks like we've slowed. We should be okay, 150 people online.

Excellent. Let's go. All right. So my name is Todd Ault, I'm the Chairman and CEO of DPW Holdings, listed on the NYSE American under the symbol DPW, obviously, most of you already know that. So we go to the next slide, Joe. We are going to have to cover the legal side of it real quickly here. So I'm going to ask Darren Magot to read the safe harbor statement, and then we'll begin.

All right. Safe harbor is available on the deck. However, this presentation contains forward-looking statements within the meaning of Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, including, but not limited to statements about DPW Holdings Inc., DPW, expectations regarding the market demand, future financial performance, the implementation of strategic plans and future growth. These statements are made based on current expectations that are subject to known and unknown risks and uncertainties. DPW does not undertake to update forward-looking statements in this presentation to reflect actual results, changes in assumptions or changes in other factors affecting such forward-looking information. Assumptions and other information that could cause results to differ from those set forth in the forward-looking information can be found in this presentation and in DPW's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including its most recent periodic reports, including the risk factors listed in the Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2019, the 2019 annual report as amended, available on our website and on the Securities and Exchange Commission's website, www.sec.gov.

Excellent. Thank you, Darren. Obviously, we got to get the housekeeping out of the way. Let's go to the next slide, Joe. So I thought it was important to start off with -- there's -- even though we started our plans to be holding -- become a holding company on December 20, 2017, we continue to evolve it, and we simplify our capital structure and the way we hold our assets. We still get questions and -- about how diverse we are? We are a small company relative to, obviously, other holding companies, but we do have a diverse business, it's important. Today, we're going to be talking about Coolisys Technologies business, Digital Power, which you see in the middle of the slide. Digital Power has been in business since 1969. However, we do have a commercial defense business, which is headquartered in Arizona, which incorporates 3 businesses: Enertec, Gresham Limited in the U.K. and Microphase, run by J. R. Read. And then, of course, Darren runs our global, which is effectively our -- we hold -- where -- it's where we hold the hotel, it's where we hold our lender, our asset lender in Digital Power lending and various other assets and investments there, including our large holding in MTIX International, AVLP. So it's important today to everyone to understand that we are only discussing today Coolisys Technologies and their launch of their EV products that have been in the works for about 2 years. But we are a diversified holding company with many other assets and many other operating businesses. We are not discussing today our global or Gresham Worldwide, our defense business, which is we're doing remarkably well right now. Let's go to the next slide. Okay. So this is the current organizational structure for DPW. DPW has a wholly-owned subsidiary, Coolisys Technologies Corp., which owns Digital Power, and has a branded power electronics business that we bought a few years ago that operates as a brand. The business has been in business for over 50 years, and I'm going to turn this over right now to Amos Kohn and let him get started with his presentation about the EV market, something we're really excited about and a journey that Amos started about 2 years ago. I do want to say when we get started with Amos, it's important to understand that Digital Power itself has been in business for more than 50 years. Amos has been with the company for more than a decade, and does produce power electronics business globally. And so he's uniquely qualified to launch an EV product, so we think that he is very skilled in this area, and he can kind of lay that out for you guys as to why this made a natural sense for us to introduce some of the products that we've been developing for the last 2 years. Amos?

Thank you, Todd. Thank you very much. So I will start with some overview of who is Coolisys and its subsidiary Digital Power, and then we'll move into the EV charging business. So our business is focusing in providing power solutions for diversified markets. We operate with a single subsidiary, Digital Power, with the business unit, Power-Plus, as Todd mentioned. And we provide -- we're mainly focusing in providing and manufacturing custom and value-added power products. Next slide. Thank you. So we are focusing on providing a feature-rich and top-quality power product, serving the harshest operating environment including also life-saving applications. So we provide product that goes to different -- diversified markets, including defense, medical, telecommunication, industrial, and most recently, we also entered into the automotive market. Please go ahead. Next slide, please. So -- no, please go back. Yes. So we operate through our 2 facilities, 1 located in Fremont, California and the second one is in Sonora. We produce and manufacture product through our global partners around the world, including partners in the U.S., Taiwan, China and Israel. That's where we manufacture our product line. We use multiple sales channels, including direct account managers, manufacturing reps and market-focused distributors to sell our products and to serve our customer base. Please go ahead, Joe. Next slide. On market, as I mentioned before, diverse -- it's fairly diversified market, including 44% of industrial and automotive market. We just enter into the EV charging business. But previously, we have been serving the automotive market through our defense solutions. We also provide medical -- product for the medical and the health care market. And we're also participating in defense and aerospace business, which is about 60% of our current market share. We are targeting to grow our defense business to 20% in the next 2 years and expand our medical to 35%, where the rest will be split between the automotive market segment and the industrial market. Next slide. This slide just shows some customer-based information. This is our defense customers. You can see that we are serving some major defense OEM and some government branches. And we continue to grow this business. As I mentioned, we are targeting 20% of our business will be focusing on defense business. It's all power-related solutions. Next slide. This is representing our commercial market segment. It's a split of different subsegment of medical, industrial, telecommunications markets. We don't have yet the automotive market because we're just entering into it. But you can see that they are major -- again, major player, technology player that's been our customer, of which some of them are for over a decade, some of them are telecommunication technology providers, some other are medical, also a major manufacturing facility are been using our services. Next slide, please. So I'm switching to the -- our solution, Coolisys solution for electric vehicle product line. So as Todd mentioned, it is actually right now 2 years we enter into this business by developing product line, and we are just ready to introduce our line. Next slide, please. So it's all -- the business -- the electrical vehicle started long time ago. In actually 1832, Robert Anderson developed the first crude electrical vehicle. So this is when it started. And then today, it's all obviously looks differently. So next slide. This is how it looks today compared to where it's been a long time ago. Next slide. So this is just some -- this is just to share with you some statistics of the market and where we believe it's going to go to. And you can see that for the last 12 months, there were over 1,000 installation of charging point in the U.S., 2,000 -- or over 2,000 in Canada. Canada become to be a major player in this green power solutions. And then also Asia Pacific is growing there very fast. So we -- and if we look into our potential market is that where we're targeting our marketplace that I'm going to address today -- in the future -- in the next few slides.

Amos, I wanted to chime in here with you so that we could kind of outline some of your vision here. I don't think people realize when they look at DPW, I know that we have an active shareholder base. But for the people that are the long-term shareholders that have been with us a long time, Amos has a nice distribution network from South -- in the Middle East and in Europe. And so while we're going to have North American rollout of the product, Amos, maybe you could elaborate a little bit on the Middle East, Europe and Southeast Asia and your thoughts on why you're uniquely qualified? I don't -- I just really want to emphasize the people your global market experience and your ability to manufacture worldwide because even though we're a small company, Amos has been doing this for more than a decade.

So my background is actually in engineering, electrical engineering, and I've been dealing with product development and technology for many, many years, over 30 years maybe. For the last 20 years, I developed a very strong partnership in Asia to provide us access to technology and also to manufacture product for us. About maybe 10 years ago or over 10 years ago, I moved all our production business from North America and Mexico into the Asia Pacific area, where we developed very strong partnerships and we make most of our -- today, most of our commercial products in Asia. That is not just China, it's also Taiwan. Actually, our larger customer receiving product from us that we develop in Taiwan and we're manufacture in China. So we have a very strong presence in the Far East, and this has been for many, many years of very strong and close relationship that I developed with partners overseas. Also, you can probably hear from my accent that I'm not from here, although I've been here for the last 20 years, and so -- I was raised and born in Israel. And I have a very strong partners over there that providing us technology that we've been leveraging to provide a technology for many defense and harsh operating environment operation or harsh operating environment services. And we have been doing business with Israel these technology vendor and providers for, again, many, many years, and we believe that we can leverage the high-tech base in Israel to excel our product line and the services. In Europe, through the years I'm -- that I'm actually managing Digital Power, I've been involved in distribution and product services across Europe to what used to be our subsidiary -- our U.K. subsidiary, Gresham Power Electronics. And I believe that we can have an access to the market place in Europe through the relationship that we developed for the last 15 years or so. And -- so all in all, I believe that with the partnership, relationship and strong engagement that we have with the current -- with the domestic market as well as the international market, we have a huge opportunity to expand our business to this market segment, but as well as other overseas markets. Next slide, please. So this is just to show -- give you some -- again, some statistics of the current, what we call, Level 2 charging station versus the DC fast charging stations in the total marketplace. This is not up-to-date information, that is actually 1-year-old data. So today, the data is slightly different. Again there is a repeat growing market. But the -- but that is actually where we're focusing our target market where we want to be participating in. It's also -- on the right-hand side, you can see also the split between station and locations, meaning that there are obviously more station or charging station in single locations that, again, serves you the opportunity and the players and again, this is not the most recent information, but it gives you some trend direction. Next slide, please. So I want to give you some overview of Coolisys charging solutions. So Coolisys is electrical vehicle charger product line, will include both AC charger and DC fast charger. We will be focusing on providing level 2 charger as well as the DC charger -- the DC fast chargers. That's where we see our target market. Again, I shared that previously in my overview about my market relationship that will be -- initially, we'll be focusing on the U.S. market, and then we will expand to international markets, of which some markets we have exclusivity, in some other we will have nonexclusive rights to sell and brand our product. Our larger product that will be introduced into the market will allow a consumer or a car to be charged to drive a range of 150 miles within less than 30 minutes. That is our larger electrical vehicle chargers we will provide. We also will provide multiple management solution for charging for client charging, including onboard keypad, proximity card reader and [indiscernible] identification option. So we'll have different options for a user to use a service. Next slide. So we provide 2 major product line. One is the AC series, which run from 7 kilowatt all the way to 42 kilowatt, and that is actually is the -- that is what determined if it is for a residential deployment or for commercial deployment. And I'll get into this later. And then our DC series, mainly focusing on the fast charging system that goes from 60-kilowatt all the way to 320 kilowatt with 4 plugs. So you can actually have 4 cars using the same station at the same time. And that will be -- so we'll be introducing total of initial 10 products under the EV charging product line. Next. So the market segment will be split into level 2 charging and DC fast charging and this will be -- we'll be providing this mainly to -- for commercial deployment. For private deployment, we'll be providing mainly level 2 charging stations. In submarket, we'll be -- mainly be focusing on business to business, that is where we had the experience and we'll provide our product line to car dealership, the OEM directly, also municipalities and district, and we know that there is a strong movement to move into electrical bus in the cities and some other municipal -- large car or trucks and our charger is designed to also charging large cars or trucks. Retail, other businesses with a large employment base, parking services, also government facilities that has a lot of parking, I mean, a lot of parking spots. There is many actually opportunity in this area. Also, large building with -- apartments, which we can provide our product line to charge the owners or the rental users and some other businesses. So we also look into some other potential services and markets. We can provide definitely the power supply that goes into the chargers, into the EV charger station. So the power rectifier is actually the power element that goes inside and we'll provide all the different models that can be -- that has been used today by the different EV chargers station providers. We also...

Yes. Amos, I wanted to chime in for everybody because I think it's an important point you need to make there. And that is, so even though Coolisys has introduced its own line of power solution products to charge for EV charging. If you look at the background of Digital Power, everything from Scientific Atlanta to Cisco to some of the most advanced medical products to defense products that require a power solution. The purpose of introducing Amos' products, Coolisys products, is to that we also make the product for OEMs. So while it's possible that you see a deployment of Coolisys' charging units commercially, especially from an industrial perspective where there's fleets, buses, municipalities, Amos, I think you should elaborate on the fact that you -- we think there's going to be an electrification as other companies introduce electric cars and a big demand for these charging stations, Amos makes the infrastructure for them, too. So you don't have to use a Coolisys product to make -- to have your charging station powered by Coolisys and the technology he brings with the rectifiers he makes and the EV parts and solutions. So can you kind of explain to everybody that you expect to be able to make -- well, you already do make these products, so maybe explain how you're the engine inside of the chargers, but you may not have your name on them.

Right. So any product start, and we're talking about the power products, start with the inside power rectifier or power solution inverter and converter that is what is inside a complete system in this case. And we are providing our power rectifiers to many large OEMs for many, many different systems. We usually design the product to fit into those systems. It's going to be a medical system, maybe surgical equipment that is in the surgical room or it can be a defense artillery system that is actually residing in a tank. And we will be -- and we are designing the product that goes inside. And then our defense OEM partners or medical OEM partner is actually marketing the product with their name, there are many components inside, but a major component, which is the power component is Digital Power, Coolisys, in this case, component. Obviously, to develop the EV charger or station that we are introducing today, we had first developed the charger element that goes inside, the power supply, and that become to be a component that we believe that we can serve multiple markets, multiple customers for -- as an OEM for brand-new charger system or for later or even maybe in a closer range for repair and services. Keep in mind that many -- it's going to be many, many installed base or very large install base of EV chargers that will need services. And we will be able to provide the technology and the engineering and the services, and I think that this is a very large market. I can take another example in the broadband industry, in the television industry or broadband industry, we are -- we provide power element that's going into the fiber optic networks, and we are -- so we develop that component that goes into those active element in the network to amplitude the signal and to allow transferring broadband data over hundred or thousands of miles. Now we provide the product that goes into those active element, but we also provide the solutions and services to many other service providers that they have the legacy product -- legacy system that require replacement, and that's where we actually taking place our value-added solution, where we will be putting together the [indiscernible] interface, and we'll be able to interface inside their product our technology. So this is -- we see that this is a great potential for us. We are in the business of power. So why won't we will provide our power rectifier to also our competition. I see this is a big potential market for us. We are a power engineering company, so we can do all of this. And so with the relationship that I had overseas, where we actually work together on the technology for the last 2 years, as mentioned, we have exclusive -- we received an exclusive license to sell our product line in North America and in the Middle East. We see some other nonexclusive market in Asia. But again, we're building the product in Asia, so maybe it will be easy way for us to compete. We'll have the insight, data and information about the market, and we can leverage that and utilize this. And also in Europe, but in Europe, we will have to compete with Siemens and ABB and some others. And we are aware of what they provide and their pricing structure, and we will be prepared for that. Next. Next slide, please. So this is just another slide that address the different subsegment where we see that we can actually install our product line. At home, at work, public -- public locations, and there are many other -- there is many opportunities. I don't need to -- you can all read that, I don't need to actually go through this. But that is where we are targeting our business. Next. Next slide, please. This is just -- I want to just give you very high level overview about the difference between AC chargers and DC charger. Because for example, most of the Tesla car will come with AC charger, level 2 AC charger. And I want to explain the differences. AC charger is actually -- is not a real charger. The charger -- the outside supply -- the power supply device providing the electricity that comes from the grid through the AC outlet. There is 2 different -- 2 different standard, I will address that in the future slides, but it goes into a charger that reside inside the car and convert the AC voltage into the DC voltage and also bring up the voltage to a higher voltage that is being used by the battery. In that process, there is obviously some efficiency that has been lost. And therefore, the AC charger are less efficient and take longer to charge a car always. Next slide. So just -- so a DC fast charger is charging directly the battery. It does not go through the inside charger. So the charger that we have in the car is actually reside inside the outside charger, the source energy. And it's going directly to the battery. The voltage are different and the power is different based on the battery technology and the battery capacity. Obviously, when you charge the battery directly meeting the voltage and the power that the battery can be charged, and this is go through controllers through communication between the charger and the vehicle, you can have much faster charging time and much more efficient. There is no efficiency that is being lost in the translation between AC and DC. Next slide, please. There are multiple standards today. Little bit confusing. But those standouts are being used for what we call level 2 -- level 1, level 2. I did not see -- show you the level 1 because we don't participate in this market, but it's very similar. And then the DC charger. So there is a different standard. Telsa, they have their own outlet interface, different plug, mainly using level 2, but they have actually worked together with the Japanese standard, CHAdeMO, to allow fast charging through an interface to the CHAdeMO charger. And so we see 3 different -- I mean, 4 different charging connectors that is being used. There are some others also connectors that is being used to interface between the charging unit and the car. So mainly we see in North America for level 2, the J1772 that is being used. We also see the CHAdeMO that is being deployed, mainly used by Japanese car, but also it's being used in North America as well. That is mainly adopted for fast charging. The CCS or the charging -- or the combined charging system. There is a system 1 and there is a system 2 actually, the combo, is being used by a combination of a German company and North America company. Also Jaguar is using that. And we also see some transitioning from one manufacturing to another. So different companies, actually, different car manufacturing is moving from one style to another. And then Tesla use their own proprietary connector. Next slide, please. So what are the factors?

Amos?

Yes. Yes.

I think the audience probably attending already knows this, but it's important they understand that all of those chargers we have adapters for and all of our charging units are capable of charging everything from Tesla to Ford to Jaguar to all of them. So I don't know if you need to elaborate on that, but I just wanted to point that out to everyone that all those adapters are adaptable to the Coolisys charging units.

Yes. So I just want to mention one thing in regard to this, is that the charging communication between the charger and the car is actually it's the same around the globe. So that helps us to develop different charging connectors or charging port that will be -- obviously, we will be able to provide our chargers to multiple deployments. So charging factors. There is no single number to say how much we can charge and how much the -- how long the company or how fast and what distance the company can run [ of course ] and operate. There are several factors. So obviously, the type of vehicle, the more the battery capacity, I mentioned that earlier and the charging limitation, fast, slow or power charging, et cetera. Also, we charge the car when it's parked so it is important to understand the route, the distance from electrical source to another and the mounting method, which I just mentioned what is the difference between one to the other is also affecting the charging capacity and charging time. Also, what is the need for -- to use the electrical vehicle. So daily driving time, alternative charging option, what is the -- and the dwell time, which is actually how much time you have to charge your car. Next slide. So we talk about the level 1, 2 maybe level 3. Level 3 is more [ acknowledged ] to the DC fast charging. So level 1, it allow you to drive 2 to 5 miles per 1 hour of charging. So -- but you can just hook the charger into your 120-volt outlet and you can charge the car overnight, and you can have your charger -- your car ready to go. If you want a faster charging, and you don't have 20 hours to have a complete charge, then probably you will use level 2 because level 2 will give you 10 to 20 miles depending on the battery and depending on the car, per 1 hour of charging. It is required 240-volt outlet, which is what you -- we all have usually have for -- at home for appliance such as dryer. The dryer requires 220 voltage. It's actually 2 times 120 or 110-volt outlet. And then for the fast charger, which allow you to charge the car to drive about 150 miles in less than 30 minutes of charge, but this will require 3 phase input. This does not fit most of the houses in North America. In Europe, we see that there are many resident facilities that has 3-phase source. And so that could fit better in Europe, maybe in China. I know that in Israel there is 3 phase for every home. In North America, we don't think that this is -- will be the commercial -- I mean, the commercial market will be a market, but the residential market will not be a market for the DC fast charging.

Hey, Amos, I did want to say that one of our strategic consultants into the -- we could identify a market for people on the call, when a new housing track is built, new home construction are starting to include charging units at the facility that you get one when you buy a car, but in some states, this is mandated or will become mandated and so 1 of the potential markets for us, the person helping us in this market is actually on the call listening, is that when you think of a new housing development build, one of the markets for us is to build level 2 chargers into all new houses that are built, similar to some of the rollouts that are being required on the solar side, where when they build new homes, they have to have solar. So this is a big potential market for us. We've contracted with the strategic partner here in this space to help us get into the residential home market. But this will be not on an individual basis, but on a commercial basis, where there's a housing track build, there's going to be 400 homes and there will be 400 charging units put in plus for residential parking there, park and recreation, there'd be additional parks -- opportunities for charging for parking spaces too. So this is a potentially big market for us being developed by one of our strategic partners. Amos, continue, I'm sorry.

Yes. That's fine. Yes, I'm sure that [indiscernible] apartments will have a high-power 3-phase interface, which will be -- we can use that, but not on the residential side. We target our market for the -- on the commercial market, when I think that there is no issue here. And then obviously, the residential market where we will be -- we are targeting the level 2 charging interfaces. Please go ahead. Next slide, please. So I kind of mentioned that in the previous slide, it maybe sort of bit redundant. But it shows you the difference between the different levels and the DC fast charging. And so I don't want to repeat that. But I want to say that if we look into the right-hand side, the DC fast change. It's requiring to use the 40-volt -- 400-volt or more. It will be -- it provides direct current charge directly to the vehicle battery. And you can reach up to 80% of the full capacity of charge within 20 to 30 minutes. Next. This just shows a little bit difference between all electrical vehicle versus a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle, which has also become to be very popular now. It both require electrical vehicle charger, but the difference here is obviously that all-electric vehicle does not have an engine, gas engine side, it's all-electrical. You can see that the average range today is about 250 -- 240, 250 miles. There are some models that Tesla offer today that actually can go up to 400 miles. But this is just an average. If you look into the plug-in hybrid electrical vehicles, the average drive is about 600 miles with the exception of the smaller BMW. It's about 600 miles, of which the electrical range, it's very slow, but the point here is that either use the car for shorter range commute or it's just allow you, obviously, to save gas and that's how you get into this very long-range mileage on 1 tank full of gas. Next one. And that I'm concluding this presentation. Just to recap, we are over 50 years in the business of power electronics. We provide power solution to the diverse industry for harsh and life-saving applications. And we have a very nice product line.

So let me outline for some of them in terms of from what an investor can expect going forward. Amos, you talked about a rollout and starting to deliver product in November. So for those who are on this from a commercial application perspective and not as investors, but interested in the products, you can contact Amos at [email protected], and that will be available on the website, et cetera, if you want to contact for commercial opportunities. We talked about OEM relationships. I think as an investor, if you're looking to gauge as an investor what milestones we're hitting, you're going to want to look for those joint partnerships, those joint relationships. We happen to be in Fremont, California. So we're in the heart of Silicon Valley. We've been there for a long time. And that's a really important market for Amos for development. Amos believes that there's going to be future development of future cars and that the Silicon Valley will continue to deliver innovation in other parts of the world innovation around this space. So there's a lot of opportunity for us to be involved in the OEM space. And so as an investor, you should be looking for partnerships, relationships and help to deploy a network. We have a lot of advantages. I don't know if anyone's ever looked in the fact that one of the CEOs of one of our companies, J.R. Read is here, one of the initial founders of the space. So we have a lot of depth and access for Amos to talk to people and network and make possible his parts and solutions. The good thing about the company, even though it's small in size, it has great manufacturing capabilities and great relationships with submanufacturers. So I'd be looking for in that space in terms of partnerships, OEM relationships, new products, new contract developments. As I said, one of our major consultants on here is helping us get into the new building home market. We are looking for more solutions here. It's a global -- we believe in electrification. It's going to take place around the globe. So this is a big, big market for us that's going to take years of deployment. It's not an overnight solution. As you can see, it's becoming more and more attainable, and there's going to be a greater need for these charging markets. And just think about what it was like when you were deploying the gas station market, it took years and years to develop a nationwide market from the combustion engine.

Let's answer some questions, Amos. I know we have some. So let me read off a couple of them. When [indiscernible] chargers available, Amos? We just talked about that. Amos. Could you elaborate November of 2020 in terms of the commercial products and what you think will be available in November?

Yes. In November, we'll be receiving some of the prototypes after we have developed overseas, and we will be ready to receive orders in November time frame.

So Amos, what is the capacity to make these chargers? One of the questions over the next few years, what capacity do you think you need or you have the ability to manufacture? Because we know -- we've talked about this market growing to $27 billion. I know internally, you've done some forecasting as to how big of a market it could be. I think there's some danger of identifying what we think we'll get of the market right now, but it is a huge market and potentially a lot bigger than the entire company for us. So maybe you could talk about capacity?

Capacity in terms of the sales or capacity in terms of the units?

I would talk about your ability to manufacture and maybe how big the global market is?

Yes. So I think that in terms of manufacturing, we have no -- almost no limitations because we use partners overseas that manufacturing product in the thousands range. They are currently manufacturing some of the product to the China market. The Chinese market has a very huge demand in deploying the electrical vehicle charging stations because of their regulation in China. And so I don't think that we will have some -- we don't think we'll have a real limitation in terms of serving the market in North America or our other international markets could expand later on. In terms of the marketplace, we want to take a very cautioned or we want to have numbers that we will -- probably will be able to support and serve. So conservative numbers in terms of revenue, but -- and sales of the product, which I believe we'll be able to support. And I don't want to go to number right now, but we will be able to support thousands of deployments.

Got it.

I think we see some statistics about $27 billion market place, $26 billion market, and we will -- and I'm taking conservative in our approach right now. But I'm looking into a few thousand of installations per year.

Amos, one of the questions is, what are the cost of the charging -- the charger costs? I know this is wide-ranging from the commercial bus application to courtesy charging. So maybe you can give people a range of what these installations and chargers cost is generally?

I don't -- I never talk about our cost. I don't share this with any -- I don't share it with anybody. I can share my expectation for our sales. And the cost is my trouble -- so my problem, is what I'm dealing with. And so I would say that it will be competitive. I understand and I know actually what is the -- how much is being charged today for level 1, level 2 and fast chargers. Just to give you a range. So if we just focus on level 2 and DC fast charging solutions, then today, the range goes between $400 to $6,500 for level 2 installation -- level 2 systems and for fast charging, anything between $10,000 to $50,000 or $40,000 or $50,000, but there is also a huge market that, as I mentioned here before, we want to participate, which is the services and then there is an installation fee that we can add and the support fee, expense support and support -- and the noncontractual support services.

So Amos, one of the things that we probably should explain to people is there is a market for us to install units and participate in the actual income of selling charging. Maybe you could talk a little bit about the model, that's a co-op model where we install the systems with them for a certain cost and participate in the revenue?

Yes. So there is a business model where we will be actually providing the charger for free, and we'll be sharing the charging revenue, actually the actual challenging charge with the charging station provider. So it's going to be with the dealership when they provide a few months to a few year free charging, like XM Radio for example, when you buy a new car and you get few months of free XM Radio. And so somebody paid for that, and that is actually the same model we'll be using for our business, which we will be participating and partnering with dealership car OEMs in providing some service, some free charging services, but also with other shopping mall and even military -- not military, but the government facilities we will be providing, maybe we'll be providing those chargers for free and will be charged for the use -- will be -- that will be recap our costs as well as expanding our business.

So Amos, obviously, we're the largest shareholder, the only shareholder right now of Coolisys Technologies, DPW Holdings. I know you talked about wanting to ultimately and to be independent, in fact, we've recently had that conversation. What size do you want the company? I know like if you look at DPW Holdings and Gresham Worldwide, we publicly announced, we're looking for opportunities to access the public markets. What size do you want this business to be? Or can you comment on the relationship with DPW and what you want to see happen for Coolisys down the road? I know right now who are your largest shareholder, the only shareholder, but I know you've talked about expanding and growing the business, how far off are you before you're big enough before you feel like you should be an independently traded company and be on your own? And you can just keep the comments vague, but I know this is something you're looking for.

Yes. Sure. Yes, I think that with my experience and understanding of the marketplace where we are playing a role for many, many years, we can definitely expand the business, and I would like to have an independent role or independent operations with some percentage of DPW, but maybe allow the public to enter into the business and to grow the business. I think that the business can grow very fast into 4x, 5x of what it is currently running today. And in the next few years, maybe even to have the business grow to a significant amount of business, which will be even maybe 10x more than what we are doing today with just innovative technology market that we want to enter into. We do have the access on the technology. We have access to the product line. We want to develop, obviously, the marketing segment part of our company to support this business unit. It's more like a real business unit and to grow the business into -- and I do want to have a better control of our business, of which DPW would be a shareholder, but it's not going to be a single shareholder of our company.

Yes, I think it's important that people understand as a shareholder of DPW like I am myself, I'm -- obviously, [indiscernible] Company is the largest shareholder of DPW Holdings right now. But DPW Holdings owns fully operating businesses like Gresham Worldwide, the commercial defense business we have that's run by J.R. Read, it owns Coolisys Technologies, these are independent companies that operate independently as us as the largest shareholder and we consolidate them, but all of these are being incubated and built over time. In the case of Digital Power, a division of Coolisys, it's been there for 50 years, they're all being cultivated for ultimately either their own opportunity as a public company or to fit into something larger down the road. So we tried to isolate today the opportunity for Coolisys to roll into the EV market. I know Amos has a lot of exciting things coming, potential partnerships, JVs, et cetera, so we appreciate your time today. We hope that you look at Coolisys independently and understand as DPW announces more things with Coolisys, the opportunities for Gresham Worldwide, the investments held by global which is a subsidiary to former DPW Financial group, which is where our lender is. We continue to incubate, grow, build subsidiaries. Some things have worked out. I know people ask a lot about our bitcoin mining operation. Obviously, that's been a difficult situation getting price and things have improved there. Please read the important disclosures about that, that are going on there. We have a lending division where we're -- we have a manufacturing contract also for MTIX, which we're working on. Obviously, hiccups along the road. But some things are starting to develop well. We're pretty excited about what's going on with Gresham Worldwide. We're really excited about Amos' rollout. He's been working on for 2 years into the EV market, and we'll keep everyone informed about these developments. Amos any parting comments you want to make about the company?

No, I think we said enough. Maybe I'll just mention one thing that I am myself a very mission-oriented manager. And when there is a mission in front of me, I just try to operate and get those things executed. And so...

Amos, that's from your being a soldier in the military and all the things you've done. I'm pretty proud of what Coolisys has done. It's been into development. We asked Amos to look at this 2 years ago. And now we see scale here. I don't think -- it's important to understand that we wouldn't support the spending of the capital we're doing here if it wasn't for the fact that we think the market is a big global market. It's a big global opportunity. It's -- Amos is uniquely positioned in Silicon Valley to take advantage of technology partnerships. And so this is a really big opportunity all in itself. So when we look at DPW, we say how bigger is each opportunity? Whether it is Gresham Worldwide or whether it is MTIX International or whether it's Coolisys. And so we think Amos is going to start to accelerate its growth. The segment reporting is broken out with our filings. You can read about what Coolisys has done in the last couple of years and then take his comments and extrapolate how big of a business we think this can be. We will give additional updates, look for additional partnerships and relationships, and we appreciate your time, everybody. We've taken up 1 hour and 10 minutes of your time. Amos, thank you. Thank you to everyone on the call. Jason, I know you're there. Thank you so much, Joe. Thanks, everybody. Take care, and let us know if you have any additional questions.

Thank you.