ICICI Lombard General Insurance Company Limited (ICICIGI) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. A very warm welcome to the ICICI Lombard General Insurance Company Limited Q1 FY 2027 Earnings Conference Call. From the senior management, we have with us today Mr. Sanjeev Mantri, MD and CEO of the company, Mr. Gopal Balachandran, CFO; Mr. Anand Singhi, Chief Corporate International Banca, KRG and Government business; Mr. Girish Nayak, Chief Enterprise AI and Technology; Mr. Sandeep Goradia, Chief Retail, Business Strategy and Solutions team; Mr. Gaurav Arora, Chief Commercial Lines and Motor Underwriting and Claims, and Mr. Girish Sehgal, Chief Health UW and Claims, Customer Service and Operations. Please note that any statements or comments made in today's call that may look like forward-looking statements are based on information presently available to the management and do not constitute an indication of any future performance as future involves risks and uncertainties, which could cause results to differ materially from the current views being expressed. [Operator Instructions]. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sanjeev Mantri, MD and CEO, ICICI Lombard General Insurance Company Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you. Good evening to each one of you. Thank you for joining the earnings conference call of ICICI Lombard for quarter 1, 2027. I would like to commence with an overview of the economic and industry trends, which have shaved the operating environment over the past few months, coupled with the insights on our company performance and our key initiatives. Following that, our Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Gopal Balachandran, will take you through the company's financial performance for the period ended quarter 1 2027. The domestic economic momentum remained steady with real GDP expanding by 7.8% year-on-year in quarter 4 of 2026 and 7.7% for 2026, supported primarily by private consumption and fixed investment in spite of a challenging global environment. Moving into quarter 1, 2027 high-frequency indicators point to a sustained economic momentum despite geopolitical and trade-related uncertainties. Consumption remained resilient reflected by growth in passenger vehicle sales, aided by GST-led affordability gains. Higher spending ability of a healthy harvest season and a conducive financial conditions, GST collections remained healthy while advanced tax collections recorded strong double-digit growth, indicating continued momentum in economic activity. India has recorded the highest ever first quarter Retail sales of INR 7.8 million which is indicative of a favorable demand factors. Furthermore, as per Vahan data passenger vehicle registration increased by [ 21.4% ] year-on-year, 2-wheeler registration grew by 13.8% and commercial vehicle reported a growth of 14.1%. Rural markets remained strong, with tractors also witnessing healthy demand reporting a growth of 21.8%. Bank credit growth remained strong during the quarter with overall credit expanding in mid-teens on a Y-o-Y basis. The latest available sectoral data indicate broad-based financing demand with credit to large corporates improving and MSME loans also growing at over [indiscernible]. Services sector growth was [indiscernible] by strong lending to NBFCs, commercial real estate and trade, while vehicle loans also recorded healthy growth. This [indiscernible] point to a sustained momentum across business investment, financial intermediation and household demand. India's own macroeconomic fundamentals and resilient domestic financial system provide buffers against external shock. However, the impact of El Nino conditions on the monsoon and continuing geopolitical tensions are a risk which may influence growth momentum. I will now talk about a recent judgment delivered on June 11, 2026 by the Honorable Supreme Court of India, which has recognized the economic value of unpaid domestic work performed by homemakers while determining the compensation under the Motor Vehicles Act. This judgment provides for compensation under a distinct head loss of domestic care, based on monthly income of INR 30,000 with a periodic increase to reflect inflation and socioeconomic changes. Based on a preliminary assessment of the impact of the demand, the Motor TP loss ratio of the industry is expected to increase in the range of 12% to 15%. Given the significance of the judgment impacting Motor TP portfolio of the industry and upward revision of Motor TP premium rates becomes both necessary and urgent in order to restore premium adequacy. That being said, the General Insurance Council has also filed a revision petition seeking review of the order. Keeping with our prudent and conservative reserving practices, the company has made an assessment of the impact of the judgment on Motor TP portfolio and has made their requisite provisions in the financials of quarter 1, 2027. Gopal will cover the specifics when he speaks on the financials later. Let me now dwell upon the industry performance for the quarter ended June 30, 2026. The general insurance industry reported a gross GDPI growth of 10.9% for the period quarter 1, 2027. Speaking of specific segments within the industry, the Commercial segment reported a de-growth of 8.6% in first quarter of 2027, driven by significant pricing pressure, particularly in Fire Insurance business. As we had indicated during our last investor call, the April renewal cycle witnessed exceptional competitive pricing with rate reductions being the sharpest at the beginning of the quarter. This quarter in an overall de-growth of -- this resulted in the overall de-growth of [ 27.8% ] in the Fire [indiscernible] of business during the report period of quarter 1, 2027. While the competitive intensity remained elevated for June 2026, the overall de-growth was [ 20.5% ] in the Fire Line business better than the preceding months in quarter 1. As articulated in my opening remarks, the Motor segment has seen good tailwinds in September 2025. The growth for the segment stood at a healthy 13.9% for quarter 1 2027, vis-a-vis 8.7% in quarter 1, 2026 and 10% quarter 4 2026. Health continues to be the fastest-growing segment for the GI industry and has contributed 47.3% of the overall general insurance premium for quarter 1, 2027, supported by greater awareness of health risk, protection needs, expanding distribution and continued product innovation. The Health segment reported robust growth of 20.1% for quarter 1 2027. Within Health Insurance, the Group Health line of business grew by 14% for quarter 1 2027, while Retail Health recorded growth of 31.6%. Speaking on the Underwriting performance of the industry. Overall, the combined ratio of the industry deteriorated to 117.8% for financial year 2026, from 112.6% for financial year 2025. ICICI Lombard combined ratio stood at 103.4% for the financial year 2026 as against 102.8% for financial year 2025, demonstrating a gap of over 14 percentage points within the combined ratio of ICICI Lombard in comparison to that of the industry. I would particularly like to highlight the resilience of our Motor Insurance portfolio. The industry continued to operate in an intensely competitive environment during financial year 2026, [indiscernible] pressure on Underwriting profitability. Consequently, the industry combined ratio for the Motor segment deteriorated to 128.0% in financial year 2026 from 123.7% in financial year 2025. Against this backdrop, ICICI Lombard Motor combined ratio moved marginally to 106.6% in financial year 2026, for 105.3% in financial year 2025, reflecting the strength of our Underwriting and portfolio management capabilities. Importantly, we maintained a market leadership during the year without compromising our underwriting quality. As a result, the differential between the industry combined ratio and ours widened to 21.4% in financial year 2026 from 18.4% in financial year 2025. Furthermore, an aspect which is noteworthy from a longterm perspective is that we have looked at the period since COVID and this differential out-performance between the industry and ICICI Lombard combined ratio for Motor Insurance stood at 10.3% in financial year 2020, which has further widened to 21.4% in financial year 2026. This sustained out-performance reflects the effectiveness of our risk selection, pricing and claims management practices and reinforces the strength of our operating models. I will now proceed to present our company's performance across key business segments in quarter 1 of 2027. The company reported a growth of 7.5% in GDPI for quarter 1, 2027 compared to the industry growth of 10.9% for the same period. Within our Commercial line segment, we have maintained a disciplined and calibrated approach focusing on growth exclusively on segments which align with our core risk management principles. Given the extreme level of competitive intensity, we witnessed a de-growth of 13.8% for the period ended quarter 1, 2027 in this segment. While we continue to manage a large corporate portfolio through adequate risk governance, we have increased our focus on the SME and Commercial Lines segment and by leveraging our distribution scale. Consequent to this, our proportion of SME business in Commercial line of segment has increased to 33.6% in quarter 1 of 2027 against 28.4% in quarter 1 of 2026. We have leadership position in engineering and marine cargo line of business for quarter 1 2027. In the Motor segment, we grew in line with the industry at 14%, thereby maintaining our market leadership position with a market share of 10.5%. Our growth in new vehicle sales at [ 33% ] on a unit basis significantly outperformed the industry growth, which was at 14.9%. Our portfolio mix for private car, two-wheeler and commercial vehicles stood at 49.8%, 28.7% and 21.5%, respectively, for quarter 1, 2027. In the Health segment for quarter 1, 2027, we grew by 24.9% as against the industry growth of 20.1%. Our Health business continued to demonstrate strong growth of 69.5% for quarter 1, 2027, significantly outpacing the industry growth of 31.6% for quarter 1, 2027. Consequently, our market share has improved to 4.5% in quarter 1, 2027 from 3.5% in quarter 1, 2026. I'm pleased to share that our contribution for our long-term book in new Retail Health business continues to gain traction and stood at 53.4% for quarter 1, 2027 vis-a-vis 71.8% for quarter 1, 2026. The Group Health segment recorded a growth of 16.3% for quarter 1, 2027 with a market share being 10.3% for quarter 1, 2027 compared to 10.1% for quarter 1, 2026. Our commitment to profitable growth has been consistent over the years, all through -- although market dynamics may affect results in certain quarter, we remain well positioned to manage cyclical fluctuations and deliver long-term value. Our One IL One Team philosophy continues to foster collaboration and operational excellence, enabling a unified approach across the organization. As a part of this philosophy, would now apprise you of certain key initiatives. Our [indiscernible] app, a one-stop solution for insurance and wellness needs achieved 22.1 million downloads as on June 30, 2026, reflecting growing customer engagement and digital adoption. The gross written premium earned from IL [indiscernible] App during the period quarter 1, 2027 was INR 154.3 million as compared to INR 932 million in quarter 1 of 2026. There has also been a more than 50% Y-o-Y increase in lead originating from this platform. The total number of health and travel [indiscernible] witnessed an uptick by approximately 20% and reached 1,68,521 claims for quarter 1, 2027. vis-a-vis 1,41,000 claims for quarter 1 2026. We continue to improve our efficiency levels in Motor Claims, our preferred partner network service, 75.6% of our non-OEM claims for quarter 1, 2027, vis-a-vis 74.6% in quarter 1, 2026. The sustained increase reflects our continued focus on channeling teams through digital to high-quality network partners and deepening network effectiveness. Our NPS score for Motor Claims remained consistent at 69 for financial year 2026. I would also like to highlight that as a part of our effort to leverage India's digital [indiscernible] infrastructure, ICICI Lombard started using the use of account aggregator framework in our [indiscernible] management process. In the Health segment, 99% of our total sales are paid within 30 days for quarter 1 2027. For 2026 financial year 2026, we recorded an NPS of 73 for Health Claims demonstrating strong satisfaction levels and reinforcing our position as a customer-centric organization. [indiscernible] has further strength our on-ground claims [indiscernible] our health customers with our customer coverage improving over the previous years. As a part of their feedback in quarter 1, 2027, 93% of customers surveyed rated their experience as exemplary, which is 4.5 on a scale of 5, highlighting the support provided during case processing and assistance with the hospital coordination. The number of [indiscernible] assisted through the IL [indiscernible] initiative stood approximately at 30,000 for quarter 1 2027. In quarter 1, 2027, we marked the continued progress in our transformation towards unified digital-first service model under One IL One Call Center vision. Our focus remains on delivering seamless, intuitive and scalable customer experiences while improving operational efficiency through technology and servicing. Customer engagement remained robust during the quarter with a clear acceleration in digital adoption. Digital interaction reached 624,000 in quarter 1, 2027 compared to 214,000 in the corresponding period last year, increasing digital contribution from 36% in quarter 1, 2026 to 69% in quarter 1, 2027, during the same quarter and further improving to 71% in June of 2026. This significant shift reflects growing customer preferences for self-service and conversational channels, while also reducing dependence on traditional servicing models. Our differentiated service service initiatives which we had spoken about in our previous earnings call, have resulted in increase of our call center NPAs to 76% in quarter 1 from 60 in quarter 1 financial year 2026. I will now request Gopal to take through the financial numbers of quarter 1, 2027.

Thanks, Sanjeev, and good evening to each one of you. I will now give a brief overview of the financial performance of the recently concluded quarter. We have uploaded the results presentation on our website. You can access it as we walk you through the performance numbers. [indiscernible] from October 1, 2024, the long-term products are accounted on a [indiscernible] basis. All numbers, therefore, mentioned are on a 1/n basis unless take otherwise. Please also refer to our investor presentation for further details. GDPI of the company was at INR [indiscernible] billion in Q1 compared to INR 77.35 billion in Q1 FY '26. A growth of 7.5%, asset industry growth of 10.9%. On an [indiscernible] GDP of the company grew by 8.5% for Q1 FY '26 as against an industry growth of 10.7%. Our GDP growth during the quarter was primarily due to growth in Retail Lines. Combined ratio stood at 107.2% in Q1 FY '27 compared to 12.9% in Q1 FY '26. On an end basis, the combined ratio stood at 16.1% in Q1 FY '27 compared to [ 10.2% ] in Q1 FY '26. During the quarter, we have incurred 2 large losses under the Fire segment, which impacted our net to the tune of INR 0.63 billion that's INR 63 crores, impacting the combined ratio by 1%. As articulated by Sanjeev in his opening remarks, on the judgment of the Honorable Supreme Court, which impacted the motor third-party portfolio, we have considered an impact of INR 1.5 billion in our Claim reserves. This again has had an additional impact on our reported combined ratio of 2.8%. Excluding the impact of the large losses and the judgment of Honorable Supreme Court, the combined ratio for quarter 1 FY '27 stood at 102.3% as against 102.2% for Q1 FY '26. Investment income was INR 11.74 billion in Q1 FY '27 as against INR 12.88 billion in Q1 FY '26. Our capital gain, net of impairment investment assets stood at INR 1.83 billion in Q1 FY '27, compared to INR 3.8 billion in Q1 FY '26. On the investment side, during the quarter, the overall debt portfolio yield increased to 7.58%. That's up from 7.46% at the end of last financial year ended FY '26. And the portfolio duration equally increased to 5.53 years. That's up from 5.13 years at 31st March 2026. Profit before tax de-grew by 46.1% to INR 5.36 billion in Q1 FY '27 compared to INR 9.94 billion in Q1 FY '26. Consequently, PAT de-grew by 46% to INR 4.03 billion in Q1 FY '27 compared to INR 7.47 billion in Q1 FY '26. Excluding the impact of the two large losses, in the Fire segment and the judgment of the Honorable Supreme Court on the Motor third-party portfolio, the PAT de-grew by 3% and stood at INR 5.75 billion in Q1 FY '27. Return on average equity was at 9.6% in Q1 FY '27 compared to 20.5% in Q1 FY '26. Return on average equity, excluding the couple of impacts that I spoke, [indiscernible] 13.6%. Solvency ratio was at a healthy 2.71x at June 30, 2026, as against 2.67x at March 31, 2026, which again continues to be significantly higher than the regulatory minimum 1.5x. As I conclude, I would like to reassure that we remain focused on our strategy of driving profitable growth, and sustainable value creation for all of our stakeholders, while ensuring that the interest of the industry and our policyholders is at the forefront. Thank you.

Sir, shall we proceed with the question-and-answer session?

Yes, please.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of Sanketh Godha with Avendus Spark.

So my first question is on this TP result itself. So this INR 165 crores, what you provided is only for the business, what you have done in 1Q? So which means this INR 165 crore kind of number, if you do the same amount of business every quarter will be a repeat number, I just want a clarification on that side. And given the judgment is retrospective, so for the back book, did you provide anything with respect to the Supreme Court judgment? Or you think your [indiscernible] is good enough to take care of that amount?

Yes. Thanks, Sanketh. And before I kind of answer on the specifics, let me just put this in context. I think when you look at Motor third-party as a book, as what we have always been saying, has been a book, which obviously exhibits a long tail of claims development over years. And then, of course, we have also seen that this part of the portfolio typically gets influenced by what you get to see as judgments coming in from coats at different points of time. And this is right through the year since we all have been in operations. Over years, I think, obviously, seen various judgment changing from time to time, which has kind of possibly laid down what would be the norms so far as settlement of motor third-party claims liability is concerned. So therefore, to that extent, any judgment coming in from, in this case, the highest Court of India, I think we have seen also in the past when some of these judgments have come at different points of time, way back, if I remember it, going back to, let's say, 2008, 2009, and very recently, since we listed some of you may recollect, we also had a couple of Supreme Court judgments coming through in 2021, more so in quarter 4 of that year. Even at that point of time, I think what we have kind of largely done is, which we have again spoken about our reserving approach. In general, I think what we generally factor in is to be prudent and conservative whenever such events come to light. And that's the reason why we always say that [indiscernible] in specific always has to be kind of looked with a lens of conservatism in terms of reserving that you carry. And that's also reflected if you'll see our specific reserving [indiscernible] disclosure outcomes in the context of motor third-party over years. So in the light of that, I think pretty much [indiscernible] thought process is what we have exhibited when you look at even for the quarter 1, that's when we have seen this judgment coming through in the month of June. So we have continued to follow prudence. We've continued to exhibit conservatism in so far as the outcome of this judgment as we expect [indiscernible] assessment at this point of time. As we also mentioned in the opening transcript, I think at this point of time, the General Insurance Council has also kind of filed revision petition against the judgment. Obviously, it is sub-judice at this point of time. And obviously, we'll wait and see in terms of how the impact plays out. So therefore, to the first question of yours, in terms of how do we see the impact of this play through in the subsequent quarters, I think will also be influenced by in terms of what do we see as an outcome of [indiscernible] revision petition. So that's one. Second, I think we have also been kind of talking through insofar as the entire industry is concerned, this is a market impacting event. And therefore, to that extent, I think we have also been kind of talking about a clear need for a revision in the motor third-party pricing. So hence, to that extent, I think, obviously, this would suitably get represented through the industry body. And hence, which is why, again, we put that also as a part of the opening transcript to say that, therefore, there is clearly a need for a revision in third-party price change. So again, that's another factor in terms of how things will possibly play-out when you look at the portfolio that you kind of right for the future. And the third, in general, when you look at not specific, again, in the context of this judgment alone Sanketh, I think even otherwise, I think when you look at the -- as we always have said that there is always ways through which you can always kind of create efficiencies in managing the overall motor book, and that will fall -- and that will be true even for the third-party portfolio as well. So hence, again, there is an element of variability that gets attached. So therefore, it will be too difficult for us to really say that whether -- nothing is going to happen in so far as the future quarters are concerned, and therefore, will you continue to see the same impact for the subsequent quarter. So since there is a lot of variability, that's the reason why we said -- we will wait for how some of these events play through. And obviously, to that extent, we will kind of calibrate what it entails to your first point on the future impact of the judgment playing through. To the historic book, I think obviously, Sanketh, I think when we have kind of called out, which is exactly what we keep saying, I think when we kind of provide for reserves, that's the point that I made I think obviously, we're building for margin for uncertainties, and these margins are exactly for reasons, for maybe events which may not be unknown at the time when we're kind of providing for the reserving estimates. So we have factored in, I think when we have provided for this, as I said, a prudent and conservative number at this point of time. This is a holistic assessment of the exposures that we have till 30th of June, I think this calls for a conservative claim, is also INR 1.65 billion in our numbers.

So if I may also add, see, this verdict has come on June 10, and we're really a month down, really very early days, but it's come from the highest court, and we have to respect the regimen whichever way it comes. Gopal, briefly spoke about the fact that we have been subjected to multiple judgments. And if you look back in time in terms of history from 2009, there was a [indiscernible] case, which redefined the future prospect of [indiscernible], the 2012 as [indiscernible], national insurance came in 2017. Then in the recent past, which he has referred to, there was a [indiscernible] which came in 2020 and also in 2021 [indiscernible] came in. So there have been multiple cases which have come in the past, which has redefined it. Past book as things stand, and we're very confident in terms of saying that our reserving philosophy is holding us good. So there is no impact. It is only the [indiscernible] quarter 1 that we've taken. But I would also be candid enough to admit that the factors what Gopal has just covered. This is purely on prudency as well as on a conservative basis, which is the way we have all these conducted assets in the Motor. And in particular, this time, we spoke about why we have been able to do work [indiscernible] on Motor and what has been in submission, our performance vis-a-vis the market. But there is a risk evident, it's important that we call it out. But while that is there, we are also equally equipped to manage it and a multiplication of INR 1.65 billion into next 3 quarters would be unfair. We will have to wait for the situation as it evolves. We also will keep you all abreast of what it is.

But sir, for example, general insurance council loses on review petition and hypothetically assume there is no price hike for next 3 quarters, then is it fair to say that if you conduct the same quality of business, what you conducted in 1Q, then this INR 165 crores is a more kind of repeat number for every quarter.

Sanketh, I would again just kind of put [indiscernible]. The fact that, let's say, there is an element of variability attached, which is the reason why I called out each of those elements, before I was kind of responding to your specific point. And to be honest, honestly, we obviously had expected this to come from all of you. So hence, to that extent, and that's the reason why we will have to kind of play as it comes through. As for what Sanjeev was saying just a month back is when we have seen this judgment come out. We will also have to see in terms of how ground level adoption of the order plays out. So there are multiple variables which gets attached insofar as the future quarters are concerned. And as we will [indiscernible] we'll be kind of reaching out and obviously become -- talking to you in some quarters as well. And we will obviously keep giving updates in terms of where do we land.

It's another significant development which you are [indiscernible] nothing more than that, and we have taken that into the quarter 1 financials because it is prudent, and we have always been conservative. But beyond that, it will evolve in that. And trust me, this combined is [ 128 ]. I mean you know that [indiscernible] 110% to make it better than where it stands. And if that is the case, then it will play out over time.

Our next question comes from the line of Prayesh Jain with Motilal Oswal Financial Services Limited.

Just clarifying this point again, what Sanketh was asking on. So the INR 165 crores reserve is only for the business return in Q1? Or is standing [indiscernible] business?

So Prayesh, just to kind of again clarify, I think, which is what I kind of explained. I'm just reiterating. I think we have done a holistic assessment of all the exposures that we have on the books, as at June 30. Just [indiscernible] not only just the book that has been underwritten for quarter 1. We've also looked at the book that we have underwritten even for -- in terms of the exposures that we have for the past periods. And I'm just iterating basis, all of that from a prudence and conservatism standpoint. I think the quarter financials has a claim reserve impact of INR 1.65 billion. And again, I would just reiterate, I think for us, this is exactly why this book requires industry to make sure that they are appropriately reserved. That's very critical. Otherwise, you could end up in situations as what we have seen. The reserving triangle disclosures are pretty much many players in the market possibly reflecting otherwise. And hence, it's very, very important. And particularly, when [indiscernible] events like this happens, you just have to make sure that you kind of reflect the prudence and conservatism in our reserving approach that we have consistently followed. And that's the reason why, we also give reference to some of our earlier instances when -- so to that extent, this judgment coming in from courts, according to us, I don't think that it's for us, I would say, is something that we have seen regularly coming through over years. The approach and consistency with which we have kind of dealt with it is what we have kind of reflected. Even in the past, which is what I said, when such judgments came. We did a fair assessment of, let's say, what could be the potential implications at those respective times. And I distinctly remember since I called-out post listing in 2021, and all of you should actually go back to the transcript that exists. And we had specifically called out to say that we have kind of considered for the impact of the judgments in the period in which the judgments had come through. And hence, to that extent, it is pretty much on the similar lines is what we have done, even now.

Particularly in Q2, you don't have any price hike or any reversal of this. I believe the loss ratios will normalize, right? Is that a fair way to think?

So which is again -- which is what I kind of responded to even Sanketh's point. I think at this point of time, I think these are just initial days, I think we will have to wait and see how some of these variables play out for the future. And then we will be able to come back and specifically speak or maybe start talking about what are we seeing as an update?

And also Prayesh one way or the other, this is what the new normal is, as you said, then the cost of [ attrition ] also may change. It will redefine multiple things and multiple levels because industry at this juncture where the industry is, we decide, it does not matter where Lombard is. There's already not much of elasticity. So even the behavior on ground will change. So -- it will find its way what's already got canned, which is the quarter 1 is what Gopal is referring to and talking about. See another one was, can it be simply absorbed, right? And nothing will happen and industry can be keeping it business as usual. We do believe that this deserves the attention at multiple levels. So we've gone ahead and taken this call, but to think that nothing will be done on every single front and will be business as usual, also not be fair.

[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from the line of Madhukar with JPMorgan.

So just two questions. One, on this provisioning. Do you -- because it is retrospective in nature, do you consider only sort of the open cases? Or does this mean that even cases that were previously closed and the sort of reopened and you would be required to pay additional compensation? Second question is if we were to exclude the two major fires loss incidents or what would be the loss ratio in the Fire segment? And is that sort of holding or how much additional sort of loss ratio are we seeing on a normalized basis because of lower rates in Fire are we seeing?

So maybe I'll take in the reverse order first because I think possibly we have tried to respond on the third-party reserving, and I'll come back on that. So on Fire Madhukar, I think so again, let me just put this in context. There seems to be some cross talk. But yes, whoever is speaking, maybe you can put themselves on mute. Thank you. So just on the large losses on the Fire segment, let's put this in context. And again, this is not something that I'm speaking only for the first time. In general, I think if you look at our approach to writing Commercial Lines, has been kind of look at underwriting profitable risk selection. So that's been clearly the thought process, and that is also evident when you look at -- I think when we are kind of in that sense, when you looked at the overall book on Commercial Lines or even if you look at Fire as a category, relative to the industry growth, I think, obviously, we have kind of let go of market share. Having said that -- maybe again, there seems to be some cross talk. So once again requesting whoever is speaking to possibly put themselves on mute. So therefore, that's the thought process with which we have been kind of underwriting the overall Commercial Lines book. If you ask us a large lot [Foreign Language] Okay. So large losses, if you ask us, I think it's something that kind of does [Foreign Language]. Okay. All right. So let me continue. So hopefully, this time around, we will be able to complete it. So the thought process is very clear in terms of what do we want to underwrite. Having said that, I think these were two large losses that impacted the book quite significantly. And therefore, Madhukar, to answer your point on what could have been the loss ratio -- the reason for calling it out is kind of -- is the reason why we kind of reflected on why we should be calling that out separately. And that's the reason if you look at, in general, Fire loss ratios for us historically. We have never seen loss ratio in an [indiscernible] of 100% plus. So that kind of speaks the impact possibly what these two large claims kind of led to, which is absolutely okay with us. I think that's the nature of the business that we are in. But if you were to kind of exclude the two, the loss ratios will be pretty much in the range within which we have kind of historically operated at. And if you go over your -- again, I said, the reason I'm not giving you a specific number is because any specific year can also get impacted by some of these events or it could be impacted by catastrophic loss. So which is why over years, when you look at Fire as a line of business, generally, the loss ratio range that we operated is between 65% to 70% on an average over years, that's a range. In some years, it could be yes, some areas could be lower. So that could be possibly the range within which you could possibly see the outcome play out. So that's in response to your second one. On the first point, again, the reason why I put that in context on Motor third-party with reference to some of the earlier judgments, that is exactly what we also keep looking at as to what happens whenever some of this judgments do come from time to time. Does this impact open exposures? Or does that, in that sense, have some bearing when it comes to, let's say, specific closed cases. In general, I think what we observed is, since the matter has reached possibly a finality when it comes to closure versus court orders, I think those cases typically do not come up for a change. That's generally the experience what we have seen. And therefore, to answer your point, it's largely confines to, as I said, some of the own exposures for us.

Our next question comes from the line of Rishi Jhunjhunwala with IIFL.

Again, going back on that Motor TP provision. And I would like to just simply understand that if nothing changes for us from here on, right, assuming everything else remains same, on an ongoing basis, the Motor TP loss ratios get extended or expanded by how many basis points? If nothing else changes. I understand that there are dynamics around possibly price hikes and other things as well. But theoretically, how much it goes up by on an ongoing basis?