IG Design Group plc (IGR) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome to IG Design Group Interim Results Webinar. [Operator Instructions] There's a PDF of the slides on the right-hand side, and this webinar is being recorded. I now hand over to Paul Fineman, CEO; and Giles Willits, CFO. Paul, over to you.

Thank you, Tamsin, and good afternoon, everyone. Thank you very much for listening and attending this webinar. So Giles and I will explain to you our performance in the first half of the year. We will then go on to talk about the outlook for the year and very importantly for FY '23 and beyond. So first of all, a sort of a heads up, a summary of the year-to-date. Well, despite the well-known supply chain and cost inflation headwinds, we have been able to deliver double-digit revenue growth in the first half. Frankly, our expectations were that the 11% growth would have been over 20% growth. But certainly, in August and September, the supply chain handbrakes and challenges were very pronounced. And despite the first 4 months of the year delivering a 25% growth, that growth rate slowed down in August and September. The good news is, however, that the business that we expected to deliver in August and September has subsequently been delivered in the second half. We've definitely seen that the strategy of working with the winners is absolutely paying. Our customers are taking market share. We are taking market share. So despite those headwinds, we are able to enjoy the benefits of strong consumer demand and the polarization of buying power into the winning customers that we're dealing with around the world. And nevertheless, the cost inflation and supply chain challenges have been enormous, and they continue to be. We are still in an uncertain time. But we're very much focused on delivering a good experience against this backdrop for our customers, and they are certainly noticing, that certainly when benchmark with our peers, we are really going the extra mile for customers. Now there is a short-term impact on the bottom line in doing that, but it bodes well for the longer term. We have, against the backdrop of hype for cost inflation and extraordinary supply chain challenges, unprecedented challenges. We have mitigated some of those costs but not enough within the year. We'll talk about how that plays out, how we feel it will play out for the balance of the year and also into next year. So despite the fact that this has been extraordinarily challenging, we remain optimistic that from a longer-term perspective, if anything, the way we've equipped ourselves bodes well for the organic growth targets and M&A activity that we feel can deliver our long-term growth plan. I think it would be good now to just look at where those revenues have come from and what the overall dynamics are. So on to the next slide, please. The overall message is that in terms of our Christmas business, which is roughly just under half of our business, the sales that we were expecting in August and September have come through. We're now having been in -- now we're at the back half of November. We've now overwhelmingly delivered our Christmas order book. Despite the lateness, our customers know this is a macroeconomic situation, it is not specific to Design Group. And in fact, we've experienced extremely little order cancellation despite the delays in deliveries. You're talking about less than 1% of the Christmas order book. So that bodes well. In terms of by destination, there have been different dynamics according to the regional experiences around the world. In the U.S., in particular, not only did we have to manage the lack of availability of sea containers. But once those containers actually arrive at the ports in the U.S., the normal transit time, let's say, between 48 and 72 hours, has actually become in excess of 4 weeks. That's the bottlenecks and backlogs at ports that we've to cope with. So the overall total lead time has extended by many, many weeks. And finally, in terms of the expected profile of manufacturing, shortages of materials, shortages of labor have compounded and therefore, manufacturing demand and profile in the second half will be greater than it normally is. Despite that being the case, we have, as I said earlier, we've seen strong demand across many categories. The only downside that we've seen in terms of demand compared to last year was where we had an extraordinary boost in demand with stay-at-home COVID lockdowns that was experienced in the craft category. We saw incredible rates of growth last year which have now receded this year. But if we say that FY '20 as opposed to FY '21 was more of a normal year, we're still seeing growth against FY '20. So overall, we are working with the winners. Our categories are doing well. We are doing well with those customers. But as I say, the supply chain headwinds and the cost inflation has been absolutely extraordinary, and we are still navigating through that. But as far as the H1 performance and financial situation is concerned, Giles, let me hand over to you to give some more insight into that.

Yes. Thanks, Paul. So as Paul has mentioned, revenue is 11% up. And if it hadn't been for some of the supply chain challenges, we would have expected that to be close to 20% up. And but with the delays in shipments and deliveries, that held us back in the first half. And as Paul said already, those are deliveries that have subsequently been made. So overall, we -- it was purely timing. However, the impact of those operating cost headwinds has impacted on both EBITDA and the adjusted profit before tax with adjusted profit before tax being 34% down year-on-year. And we'll dig more into the detail of what's driven that on the next page. Not quite yet, though. In terms of the reported profit before tax, that's actually up year-on-year, reflecting a significant reduction in our adjusting items half 1 on comparative period prior year, primarily driven by the lower level of CSS integration costs within the period. Prior year, obviously, we had only just taken on CSS. And this year, we're a way through that integration program and therefore, have taken on most of those costs already. So reduction in adjusting items helping drive reported profit before tax up. Net cash or net debt at the half year, really reflecting the usual seasonal working capital outflows that we would expect higher than the prior year, and we'll talk about that in a few pages time, but higher than the prior year, really reflecting that higher order book, that increased order book and the increased level of manufacturing within the business. And then dividends, we are paying a dividend of 1.25p per share at the interim stage in line with our dividend policy. So moving on to the next page and in a bit more detail. Here's the -- we'll start really with the bridge, year-on-year operating profit bridge. So year-on-year, with 290 bps reduction in operating margin, and you can see here what's been driving that. Despite the sales increase, which did deliver good gross margin and an improvement in profitability. As Paul mentioned earlier, that lower level of craft sales, craft sales are at that higher margin level for us, so that lower level of craft sales year-on-year as a result of COVID boosting them in the prior year, meant that we saw a reduction in the margin as a result of mix. However, the biggest impact was the impact of the cost headwinds, and you can see there by far and away the biggest factor in terms of driving that 290 bps reduction in operating margins. Worth remembering that government assistance last year during COVID helped support profit to the tune of $3.5 million. It was actually $3.6 million at last year, we had $100,000 in this current half 1. And so the difference, $3.5 million being the bridge in relation to the impact on profits. And that's really the 3 or 4 big factors that impacts on the overall position of the group in terms of operating profits. If we look at the regional split, then what we see here is within the U.S., an 8% increase in revenues, which was also where we also saw the biggest impact in terms of operational delays, in terms of holding that revenue back in the first half. So very much, that's the region that suffered the most in terms of that timing aspect to revenues. International, though saw a 19% increase in revenues, which really was across the board, but predominantly in Europe and in Australia. However, both regions, as you can see, took a hit to operating profit and really both were taking that their share of that bridge below at the group -- which we've shown at the group level, both were being impacted by the cost headwinds and -- but the government assistance to be fair, was mainly in international. So if we move on to cash. So as I say, the half year closing debt very much in line with what we expected. Obviously, there's the lower EBITDA, which is part of the reason why we haven't generated as much cash in the first half. But equally, the main driver is the cash outflow associated with the movements in working capital. And as I said earlier, this very much really just reflecting the increased order book from where last year, it was held back because of COVID. This year, we've seen that increase and particularly in manufacturing, which is obviously where we're investing in the working capital in both raw materials, inventory and so on. It's worth stressing that this is absolutely as we expected. And we're now going into that phase where we start to see the cash come through from the inventory turned into receivables turned into cash when it's paid by our customers. And we will end the financial year with that net cash position that you've seen in that profile that is shown in the bottom chart. It's also worth remembering that in terms of average leverage, our average leverage at the half year was actually 0, an improvement year-on-year. And really, just reflects the fact that this business is still a very financially secure, very healthy balance sheet and in a good position, and we'll talk more about that later. So overall, as we expected in terms of cash, as I say, we're heading towards that net cash position at the year-end. I think I'll pass you back to Paul.

Thank you, Giles. I think now to spend some time just giving some granular insight into the supply chain and cost headwinds. And I think emphasizing that this is a perfect storm whilst double or triple digit cost inflation is unprecedented in our industries. Combining that with significant shortages and significantly extended lead times is an extremely difficult dynamic to manage within the year. So if we look at the 4 buckets that have impacted margin the most and will continue to do so within the year, let's start with freight. Now we had anticipated that sea freight would increase this year. And indeed, our budgets originally factored in the doubling of sea freight, which we felt at the time was a conservative and cautious view. What has actually happened is that sea freight rates have increased beyond 500%. And that trend had softened in June or July, but once again, increased dramatically during August and September. We are currently seeing a little bit of a softening combined with an improvement of availability. So whilst that is encouraging, we are still assuming a high level of freight cost as the new norm going into next year. We did try and successfully to broaden our supply base to access greater capacity. We also, in certain cases, piggybacked and collaborated with our customers in terms of their extraordinarily large capacity and capability in terms of accessing the best rates and the best capacity, we are dealing with some of the largest retailers in the world. And that certainly helped. But the combination of this extraordinary level of cost inflation, ongoing level of cost inflation, combined with the internal distribution headwinds, I mentioned the port bottlenecks, but as I'm sure you would have heard, there's also been the challenge of shortage of heavy goods vehicle drivers in the U.K. and Europe. There's also been similar challenges in the United States. Clearly, these are difficult dynamics to manage. The fact is we have managed them from an operational perspective, but in the short term, that's impacted on margins. Raw materials. Similarly, we are used to a level of inflation, I would say 1.5% or 2% is a norm. There was a time, I believe, 2 years ago, in certain categories of paper were 15% or even 20% more expensive. But we are looking at double and triple digit cost inflation and lead times going from perhaps 6 or 8 weeks to 5 months. Again, extraordinarily difficult dynamics to manage. Now again, we've been very flexible in our approach to where we secure materials from both regionally. We have compliance requirements in terms of environmental compliance and audit requirements that we still must achieve. So again, whilst the overall market seem to be flattening in terms of inflation, subsequent to August and September, we have seen again some significant double-digit increases. In terms of labor, on a go-forward basis, I would say that's probably the biggest uncertain factor for us to manage. And to give you a flavor of that, the number -- the balance between permanent workforce and temporary seasonal workforce, particularly in distribution and manufacturing has completely altered. There is a dynamic, which was overwhelmingly a U.S.-based dynamic, but that's now becoming worldwide, which is known as the great resignation with the changes of labor market practices post COVID lockdowns have meant that there is significant unemployment in the United States but even more significant job availability, actually accessing labor, when you need it and the skill levels that you need it has become extraordinarily difficult. We've managed to do it, but it's been at a premium cost. Our assumption is those premiums do not go away and the need to be flexible and to offer a sort of portfolio of benefits to ensure that we are retaining good people and are able to attract the people that we need in the business, that is structural. We believe that, that is the situation that we must embrace and factor in for the future. Finally, as Giles mentioned, a margin mix has changed as some of the higher-margin categories declined in value. And of course, we have absorbed more of the headwinds than we have been able to mitigate this year. The situation, however, will change for next year, and we'll come on to that. I'll just -- before we do that, I'll give a little bit of flavor between the regional dynamics so we can just take those into account. In the United States, despite the prevailing circumstances, we were very happy to be awarded Walmart Supplier of the Year for seasonal and celebrations products. It tells us we're doing something right. I can share with you that in terms of our performance this year, that has been absolutely acknowledged as being exceptional under the circumstances, and we see ourselves going from strength to strength in the relationships with our major customers. We're also seeing the United States embraced to a greater degree, the drive that we've had certainly which has been very well received in the U.K. and European markets from a sustainable product perspective. And we're seeing growth in sustainable product demand in all categories and in all channels in the United States as well. We're very happy with that. We can also share that in the high-margin categories of creative play, seasonal décor and certainly upscale cards, we see very good momentum coming into next year. The CSS integration has overall gone very well. Unfortunately, one of the synergy opportunities that we expected to deliver in FY '22 because of the supply chain headwinds, we have had no choice other than to postpone that into the second half of FY '23. The annualized benefits of that will come through FY '24. We have, however, been able to consolidate other U.S. sites and other Asia sites that support the Americas business. So against a difficult backdrop, a lot has been achieved in the Americas business. The final piece just to bring to your attention is when we acquired CSS, they had both a direct-to-end user and a B2B e-commerce platform. It was a bit of a, I'd call it, a spaghetti junction of websites and platforms, et cetera. We've been able to standardize that. We've been able to put it under one umbrella called Something Delightful. We launched that fairly recently. It's been acknowledged as being one of the leading online shops within the craft category that was recently acknowledged by Newsweek magazine. It's important. It's not just [indiscernible] it's important because it increases our consumer profile. We see that rolling out and increasing over the next few years. Reality is, when it comes to e-commerce, during that embryonic period, although we see top line growth, we will be investing the margin that, that delivers into expanding the database, expanding our marketing and increasing our profile. But it's definitely an exciting opportunity for us to grow. So on to the international business, different dynamics. Again, sustainability, incredibly important. We're delighted to share the news that Tesco has actually awarded us their Supplier Partner Award for Sustainability. What does that mean? It means from their entire network of suppliers that Design Group was acknowledged as, I guess, walking the walk rather than talking the talk, when it comes to sustainability. And we are seeing a growing portfolio of products going to the vast majority of Tesco stores for next year. We're delighted with that. It's a commercial opportunity. It also is important that we are living the ESG objectives as opposed to, as I say, just talking about them. Again, it's very strong consumer demand working with the winners in Europe and Australia has given us double-digit growth. So we are delighted with that. Across the business, there's been significant effort either in price negotiations or product engineering or other mitigations to help mitigate the cost in this year. Clearly, we have been able to mitigate all of the costs this year. But the momentum going into next year is strong, and that applies equally in our international businesses as well as it does in the United States. So in terms of the actual outlook for the balance of the year, our order book is at 91% of budget. That's in very good shape. As I said, we have now overwhelmingly delivered our Christmas order book. There's always a few stragglers at this time of year, but we feel very confident that we will deliver on our Christmas order book. And to give context, Christmas is in excess of $400 million. I think that we have actually received despite delays in the supply chain of perhaps between 6 to 8 weeks, we've received cancellations of less than 1% of our order book. That's the statement that we are doing well particularly when benchmark with the overall peer base. And our customers are also hungry for goods. What we can say is that while we have delivered on Christmas products, the sell-through is extremely strong. That bodes well again for next year. But uncertainties remain. They apply to labor costs, they apply to freight costs, they apply to material costs. So the second half is really when we will see the greater impact of these supply chain and cost headwinds during FY '22. But as I say, I think that from a customer perspective, we've really gone the extra mile. Customers have absolutely noticed that. And as we go into FY '23, the dynamics are altering. So now let's talk about those on the next slide, please. If this was primarily a Design Group problem as opposed to a macroeconomic problem, perhaps the ability to change the rules of the game, so to speak, would be different. But our situation is that we are now receiving commitments from customers between 1 to 2 months ahead of the norm. That obviously gives us greater time to plan. Those customers want to give us the ability to maximize the execution of their requirements. We think that's structural. We think that, that will certainly be the case for the next 2 to 3 years, which is good. We have also altered in certain cases and important cases, the terms at which we do business. What that means is rather than there being a blend of domestic order fulfillment or shipment as we would describe at FOB from source, we are seeing an increasing amount of business being fulfilled FOB, which means that the customer takes the risk in terms of the shipping cost of those goods. Alternatively, we've put in place very specific terms. For example, we would say the prices are valid for a narrow window, perhaps 4 or 5 weeks. It's based on this cost of material, this cost of freight. If the cost, and we are responsible for the freight in those circumstances, if the cost of that freight is exceeded, the customer has paid us the difference. If the cost is reduced, we will pay the customer the difference. We're not seeking to profit from that. We are seeking to derisk from that. And whilst those proposals have been on the table for years, now they are being accepted. We are also seeing double-digit price increases accepted by major customers around the world. Frankly, we need them. And where customers are not prepared to either accept a reasonable increase or a blended approach to the categories and opportunities that we have, then although we'll do it with a heavy heart, we have to have the courage to say our door is always open. But thanks, but no thanks. We will walk away from certain business which is not considered to be viable. Often that business is kind of the scrap to catch the macro or we have to make sure the macro is there. But we have seen a quantum shift in the approach from customers, it's a very collaborative approach. Customers know we've taken the pain this year, and that is unsustainable. So we have to be resolved in our approach to drive different behaviors for next year, and that is happening. Additionally, I haven't mentioned and we should mention the impact of COVID because we are seeing, unfortunately, COVID raised its ugly head, as we all know, increasingly, certainly, we're seeing lockdowns in Europe. We have seen regional impacts in the United States. We've seen port closures in China, we've seen national lockdowns and major regional lockdowns in Australia. So we are still in an uncertain time. And I guess that whilst operationally, we have rebooted our business and reconfigured our business to cope with COVID, we will not assume that everything in the garden will be rosy in the future. We will have to assume that we remain confined in how we have to behave and certainly in terms of the health and safety aspects and or the protocols that we have to comply with. I guess the final takeaway message is if we go back to the growth plan that we shared with you only fairly recently, i.e., that we could grow our business both organically and through M&A to $1.5 billion of sales. And this year, we expect to be quite close to $1 billion and adjusted EBITDA at 10%, i.e., $150 million. We absolutely believe in that as a vision and a goal for our business. We certainly did not envisage the extreme unprecedented magnitude of the supply chain and cost inflation that we've had in FY '22. But in some way, having from a customer perspective, navigated through that, we actually feel that the opportunity, certainly from an organic perspective are greater than ever. We are working with the right customers. And from an M&A perspective, again, we see lots of opportunities on the radar. We will, of course, be very discerning. So I guess the message is, it's been a very tough first half. We are navigating well in the second half, the order book has been overwhelmingly delivered certainly from a Christmas point of view. We're coming up to an important period of time in quarter 4 and certainly November, December, from an everyday perspective, the headwinds are still there. Some are accelerating, but we are navigating through this period, and we believe into a more normalized ability to mitigate and plan ahead for next year. And we are feeling well placed for a good rebound next year. So thank you for listening. Giles and I very much welcome any questions. Thank you.

Thank you, Paul. Could you put on your webcam? [Operator Instructions] And the first question is, how are your customers changing their practices in response to the supply headwinds?

Well, as I highlighted before, I feel that we're having very grown-up conversations, very collaborative conversations with our customers. It's a mutual dependency situation. And I feel that customers are looking as we are at every single aspect of the cost profile of how we do business together. SKU simplification, product rationalization, product simplification. Certainly, from a trading terms point of view, where can we see win-wins. And I think that customers are also very focused on securing supplies. Our products are delivering 50% to 70% retail margins for our customers. That's important. So whilst the headwinds and the supply chain challenges have been extraordinary, there's a reason why customers have been collaborative, there's a reason why they have accepted later than initially required deliveries, it's been a mutually collaborative effort. So I think that those relationships, which have been hard fought and hard won over many years, are more important than ever. They were consolidating their supply base before the supply chain headwinds. I see that only accelerating, and we believe we're going to be a net beneficiary of that.

And how does the management team think about customer concentration and risks associated with it, for example, Walmart with 25% of sales?

That's a great question. Intuitively, the thought of having too many eggs in one basket never sounds right, but I think you've really got to delve deeper in that. Walmart also -- and I appreciate the question is about the principle of it as opposed to Walmart, but because they're our biggest customer, I'll respond to that. Walmart are such a significant dominant part of the retail landscape in United States that effectively, if you're not doing business with Walmart in our categories, you're waving goodbye to between, I suppose, 25% and 30% of the total market. And I think when you think of Walmart, also understand that Walmart are the second largest e-tailer in the United States. So our customers, our top 20 customers are 67% of sales. But when you think of the top 20, probably think of 60 because every customer is on the channel. So for example, our biggest customer in the U.K. is Tesco. And we are serving Tesco and superstores, in convenience stores, online and there's different offerings in different categories and solutions for each one of those. So working with the winners is very much part of our strategy. We're still serving over 11,000 customers. I actually think we will cut off some of the long tail. I think that we will consolidate with our larger customers I think they offer us multi-category, multi-season, multi-territory opportunities. So if we think of Walmart, we're trading with Walmart in United States, in Canada, in Mexico, in Brazil. So I would say, working with the winners is a good strategy. Of course, they have an agenda, and but net it's our job to ensure that by growing with them, we're also growing the bottom line. That's been incredibly difficult this year. But overall, the track record and trajectory shows that actually, we've got growing relationships and growing profitability with the vast majority of our top customers. So we are comfortable with that.

And with paper and petroleum being significant input costs, what's the rough percentage -- sorry, what is the percentage roughly within the margin? How does the 10% move in petroleum price impact margin and the same with paper?

Giles, over to you.

Crikey. That's quite a detailed question. I mean, there's so many different angles to that as well because petroleum will impact us not just in terms of polypropylene but also across freight as well as other things as well. But I mean, typically, we'd be looking at, I mean, a 10% increase in paper wouldn't be that significant an increase in -- I mean it would be probably 10... I would suggest maybe 2% or 3% increase in the position. And I almost think that the oil piece on polypropylene would be relatively immaterial, 1% or 2%. So it's also worth you have to step back a little bit and take a view on where does all of our product come from that sits in our COGS. We have roughly, what, $800 million of yes, $800 million of cost of sales. And within that 60% or 65% is probably sourced from the Far East. So it's not a raw material cost for us. It's an agreement where we've purchased other costs from a supplier in China or in the Far East. In that situation, the impact of a paper or change in oil prices wouldn't necessarily impact on what we pay because we've agreed to contract. So you then have to revert back to whether you actually buying your raw materials for the 35% of the stuff that you produce. The majority of which is paper. So once you've dissected it that way, an individual increase in -- a relatively small increase in the price of paper won't in itself, have a massive impact on the overall position of the group. But that's not the situation that we're facing at the moment. The situation we face at the moment is where it's not 10%, it's 100%. And with petroleum, it's the same and with freight, it's 500%. So it's the scale of the change rather than the sort of the proportion of COGS that's significant.

So what is the strategy on revenue versus profitability? Revenue growth remains, but the margins collapse. So what's the overall strategy to recover the margin?

Well, as I mentioned, there's a sort of a portfolio of strategies to attack this situation. First of all, if you look at the cost headwinds, the first thing that we need to do is to address where we have the greatest risk. And one of those areas is in terms of transforming or transiting domestically fulfilled business into FOB fulfilled business. So that's one key strategy altering the actual fulfillment conditions in terms of shipments that will make a material difference to us in terms of derisking. Secondly, the most vulnerable business that we had is customer own brand Christmas business. So establishing very strict criteria in terms of validity of pricing, specification and the minimum scale of business, whereby we would accept a customer bespoke, unique or own brand product, is also something that we are applying very strictly. If customers can't meet that criteria within reason, we will now steer them to a Design Group branded alternative where we're in the driving seat where we can achieve global economies of scale and reduce our costs. So the profile of product is also important and the brand that we apply is also important. Thirdly, as I said, we will walk away from business which is not viable. We aren't a registered charity. We want to make a profit. We don't apologize for that, and we have shareholders to please. So whilst customer service is absolutely a paramount importance to us, it's not unconditional. There have to be conditions which make business viable. We are prepared to look at a basket of -- and a mix, but that mix has still got to give us a level of profitability, which is acceptable. The other strategy, which is important to us is the focus on higher-margin categories. And it's not a coincidence that, for example, our creative play business I can say, for example, in the United States, where we really only began the creative play opportunity between 3 and 4 years ago. we see that business going from 0 to north of $40 million next year. And these are high margins, the difficult products. There's a high degree of difficulty with those. And for that, we are seeing retailers embracing our product offering. It's very difficult for them to source and this is a high margin. So there will be a blend of, our strategies will be changing the terms at which we do business to make it the balance of risk is more viable. We will change what we do in terms of brand offering. We will change the specification of product that we are going to provide for our customers. We're still going to give a sort of an unmatched portfolio of products or brands of capabilities. But I would say that we will alter the minimum parameters that have to be applicable to that in order for it to be viable from our point of view. We expect in 3 years' time, we'll have a greater amount of everyday business, which will reflect higher categories -- higher-margin categories. And we also see a greater amount of volume going through e-commerce channels than before. Hopefully, that responds to the question. I'd be happy to give some further detail. There is one other thing that comes to mind, which I think is important, which is we must not feel that our efficiency drive in terms of manufacturing or our infrastructure is a done deal. It isn't. And in terms of certainly addressing the difficulties and challenges in the labor markets. The more we can automate, the better it will be for us. So all of that will feed into a better, more secure gross margin and operating margin than previously.

Great. And how do you think about pricing power with the large sort of Walmart, Tesco and Aldi, et cetera?

Well, the proof of the pudding, I guess, is in the eating, isn't it? And what I would say is, if you are only supplying simple commoditized products, the pricing power is modest. If, however, you are supplying a portfolio of categories, brands, seasons where you're supplying across regions and you're meeting compliance goals and sustainability goals, et cetera, et cetera, then the pricing power is fairly balanced. So as I've said before, none of the major retailers are pussycats and they're demanding in terms of margin. But margin is only theoretical until you deliver a product. And I think that the retailers are very cognizant of that fact. And certainly, when we benchmark ourselves against our peers, as I said earlier, I feel that we represent extraordinarily good value for money to our retailers. They are still getting exceptionally good margin, but they will value security of supply more than ever before. One question that I had earlier today is with these incredible circumstances that we've had, could we have declared force majeure and effectively put guns to the heads of certain customers? We think that, that is a very short-term-ish, very blinked approach. You win the battle and lose the war. We took the point of view that we will keep our customers as happy as possible. But we do feel that, that is appreciated and acknowledged. And as far as pricing power is concerned, all I can say is we feel confident that we can leverage what we've actually delivered pretty well and that the margins will return northwards. Anything you'd like to add to that, Giles?

That's good.

Okay.

Well, thank you very much. Indeed, the questioners said, great answers and very helpful. And that's the end of questions. Paul, do you have any closing remarks?

Just for the sake of repeating myself, I can only say on behalf of the entire team, how disappointed we are with a pretty unblemished track record coming to a pretty brutal end in FY '22. But, as I say, I believe we're doing the right things. If someone said, well, could you done anything different? The answer is you can always do things different, but I believe that the team has pulled the right levers. And as far as our long-term growth proposition is concerned, medium to long-term growth, we feel confident about that. But it doesn't feel like we're winning at the moment. But I actually feel that -- I believe that in hindsight, we'll look back in this period, and we'll be able to say, well, that was an investment in the future. I certainly hope that's the case, and we're very committed to making that happen. So thank you, everyone, for some great questions and for your support. Thank you very much.

Many thanks, Paul and Giles. And to all listeners, you'll now be taken to a web page to give feedback on today's presentation. If you're unable to complete this at this time or receive a follow-up e-mail, we'd be really grateful if you could take a few minutes to complete. Many thanks. This is the end of the webinar.

Thank you.