Immobiliare Grande Distribuzione SIIQ S.p.A. (IGD) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon. This is the Chorus Call operator. Welcome to IGD's conference call presenting full year 2023 results. [Operator Instructions] Let me now turn the conference over to Claudio Albertini, CEO of IGD. Thank you very much.

Good afternoon to all of you. As you could see from the press release that we disclosed, we published about 1.5 hours ago, the Board of Directors of IGD this morning approved the account for full year 2023. And we also sent you a results presentation, and I'm going to walk you through the presentation. Let's start from Page 3 in the presentation. And we, in a nutshell, are providing to you our 2023 highlights. We have 3 boxes. First of all, our shopping malls, so-called spaces to be lived in, confirmed for 2023 that they have very sound fundamentals, operating fundamentals, and they add up to 2022 ones, which were also very good, while tenant sales went up and footfalls went up to 4.3% tenant sales and the footfalls went up 4.5% versus 2022. Let's now look at the second box. In 2023, we had a big event in our main pipeline, the main pipeline, we disclosed with our business plan. That is to say we opened our project, the Officine Storiche project. It was a very important event for us, a milestone that somehow stands out in our industrial pipeline. And then in 2023, we completed our debt stock refinancing as disclosed in our business plan, and the EUR 650 million were refinanced in 2023, and they have to be added to the EUR 235 million that were refinanced in 2022 starting from August. And in less than 18 months, we have refinanced almost EUR 900 million worth of debt, about 90% of our -- maybe more than 90% of our net financial position. Rating agencies have confirmed their ratings. And Fitch more specifically, they confirmed the investment grade level with a stable outlook. Let's move to Page 4 of the presentation with highlights about our revenues, EBITDA and some capital ratios. Net rental income went up 4.9%, almost EUR 120 million. Core business EBITDA, slightly above EUR 108 million, went up 4.6%. And funds from operation land at EUR 55.4 million, down 17.5% versus 2022. We've already seen that over the year, over 2023, and we had somehow prepared the market by providing the reviewed guidance starting from February to November. We'd already prepared the market for this result, and we'll look into it as we walk through the presentation, which is slightly higher than the last guidance we gave you. The real estate portfolio of market value, excluding leasehold, was freehold is EUR 1.9 billion, EUR 1,968 million, down 5.4% because of fair value valuations that penalized us last year, especially end of December but also end of June. The EPRA NRV ratio is down 10.3%, landing at EUR 9.22 per share. If you move to Page 6 in the presentation, we show you the operating performance of our organization. Footfalls went up 4.5%, as I said before. And malls in Italy saw an increase in tenant sales as well as we showed you in the -- at the beginning of the presentation. So the number of tickets goes up 4% almost. So the spending for each ticket is up EUR 0.4, that is to say 1.4% versus 2022. And the hypermarkets are also faring very well, the ones we own, and the growth is close to 4%. If you move to Page 7, you see a breakdown for our shopping malls of the performance we have reported broken down by product category. Here, you see they all show a plus sign, exception made for the electronics industry. For us, the weight is about 10% on the total rents. And after the double-digit growth they experienced in 2021, there was a slowdown in 2022, and this slowdown went on in 2023 as well. All other product categories have a plus in front, and household goods grew more than 15%. And of course, restaurants also went up 15%. Restaurants were one of the most penalized sectors during the pandemic. So you see there's a positive for clothing as well, not so much the percentage value, but it's still -- it can be appreciated, but it weighs about 50% of our total rents. If we move on to Page 8, we see our leasing activities in Italy, and then we'll see Romania in a minute. Let's start with the leasing activities. We had 188 new contracts, 135 renewals and 53 turnovers. The renewed rents are flat, down 0.45%, but those rents had already grown due to the inflation effect for 2 years in a row. Occupancy rate is still quite high in excess of 95% slightly, while growing and recovering versus H1 2023. And also the collection rate is faring well, landing at 97% for 2023 full year. On Page 9, you see a few details. In 2023, we have relet 15,700 square meters with a rotation rate of 4% and new openings, Officine Storiche, in excess of 15,800 square meters. And overall, 83 new stores were opened. In the box on the right-hand side, you find some more details. There were 91 new brands included, 22 of which in 2023. Last 3 years, '21 to 2023, 91 brands, but 22 in 2023 alone. And you see the details of the new tenants. We have 10 new restaurants. That make the -- that show the buoyancy of the industry. And then we opened the first Starbucks in one of our shopping malls. It's Officine Livorno. And then staying on Officine, let's move to Page 10. And we've opened the early September -- first days of September, we opened the new destination. We call it an iconic destination for shopping and entertainment. It was very much expected to be opened in the city; 11 restaurants, a fitness center, 16 shops. And by the way, in the second half of 2024, Primark will be opening their stores as well, and we've already signed a contract with them. So again, highly successful opening. Here, you find some further details on footfalls for the first 4 months. And the occupancy, as you see, is more or less in line, a little bit more actually than the overall occupancy that we have, which is at about 95%. I was mentioning Romania beforehand. We are on Page 12 now. In Romania, 2 leasing activities were very brisk. 662 new leases, of which 515 renewals and 147 turnovers. Here, we see an upside, positive by almost 2 percentage points, despite the fact that these leases actually grew by effect of indexation. They are indexed based on European criteria and not on Romanian. Occupancy is 96.2%, slightly down compared to the first half. And the collection rate is even higher than Italy at about 98%. On the following page, you will find some further detail on the new stores which we opened, 147 of them, of which 2 new brands. Specifically, I'd like to refer to 2 brands. One is Stay Fit Gym, which opened 3 stores, 3 fitness clubs in our Romanian portfolio. And 2 stores for Sinsay, a fast fashion brand, further proving that we are really working on our merchandising mix in Romania. And finally, in Romania, we installed 4 new photovoltaic plants. And here, you find where they are, the 4 shopping centers, where these plants were installed. We're on Page 14 now, marketing activities with focus on digitalization. And we developed partnerships with our tenants. Specifically, I'd like to focus on 2 projects, the Spotlight project aimed at increasing CRM contacts and increasing loyalty too. We launched our first IGD mobile app with a loyalty program, which will be launched in 7 shopping centers in 2024. And we increased new contacts in CRM by 28% in 2023. The Partner project. First of all, so a continuation of our core marketing initiative with Coop Alleanza with positive developments. You see a few figures here concerning communication, promotion and digital. But we did not focus on Coop Alleanza only. We also developed partnerships with other primary and leading tenants. I'd like to point specifically to Kiko and Okaidi. I'd like to take you now to Page 15. In 2023, we organized 555 events, more than in 2022. We are not yet back to the pre-pandemic level. If I'm not mistaken, before the pandemic, we had organized about 700 events throughout Italy. But anyway, 555 events broken down into our shopping centers mean over 20 per shopping center, more than 1 per month. And we are focused on the areas that you can see here: loyalty, community, social relations, entertainment, communication, experience. So we did work hard. And it was a fruitful exercise. Not only that, we actually got a good boost in terms of sales, tenant sales, et cetera. Sustainability now. We launched our sustainability plan together with our business plan in December 2021. So we launched a business plan, which included a large number of 5-year goals. We are at the second year of our plan. We are slightly less than 70%. We are confident that we can reach 100%, or at least something quite close to that, on our sustainability targets. Here, you find a few details on things we've done in 2023. But before doing that, I'd like to recall that we obtained from EPRA a confirmation of Gold Awards, both for financial statements. It's the sixth year in a row here that we get this award, and it's the ninth year in a row for sustainability. We are rated by 12 rating agencies, most of them unsolicited, and their ratings are either stable or improving versus 2022. Then you find a detail of the several areas: green, responsible, ethical, attractive and together. And the initials gave you the GREAT acronym. Becoming GREAT is our motto and our payoff for our CSR. On the following page, you find the actions which are underway -- or which were underway in 2023 in the green environment. So we're talking about the environmental footprint of our portfolio. Well, photovoltaic systems, we have 13 of them now. 12 in our hypermarkets, those were investments which were directly made by our tenants. 20 shopping centers equipped with a LED lighting systems with an estimated decrease by 13% of the total electricity consumption. We started a first project aimed at monitoring consumption through AI. This was done in Milan at the Centro Sarca in Sesto. We keep buying energy from renewable sources. We are approaching 100%. We are at 94% of the total electricity consumed in Italy. In the ESP center, we are installing a new heating/cooling system with heat pumps. And then we also already installed 122 EV charging station in 22 shopping centers in our portfolio. Our portfolio is BREEAM certified. We have 10 certifications concerning 63% of the market value of our Italian malls. And we have 24 shopping centers certified with the ISO of ISO 14001. Coming now to the actual figures concerning our portfolio. As I said before in the introduction, there was a change in our market value. And you can see it here, we went from EUR 2.080 billion at the end of 2022 and EUR 1.968 billion in 2023, down 5.42%. If you add to this leasehold properties, EUR 17 million for 2023. And the stake, which is EUR 25.2 million, we are about slightly above EUR 2 billion. The EPRA initial yield is 6% in Italy, including both malls and hypermarkets, and 6.7% in Romania. Here in this box, you see that rates were increased by 90 basis points... [Audio Gap] In 2023, we unfortunately have the floods that affected Emilia-Romagna. You can see it from the picture that -- you have the before and after picture, this shopping center, Lungo Savio was devastated by the flood. But of course, we started working both ourselves and our tenants. And the hypermarket opened in June almost in full, and shops in the mall reopened in July 2023. And this gave us the opportunity to rethink the layout of the shopping center. We did a commercial remodeling, which is still underway, to introduce new brands, new tenants. We are moving on with the -- on Page 24 in the presentation. At Imola, we are restarting the Centro Leonardo. It's an old shopping mall. So we -- it was requiring a complete restyling. We started -- well, the work should start at the end of Q1 -- Q2, sorry. They will start at the end of Q1 and should be finished by Q2. We're working on the external part. And again, in that case, the work will end at the end of 2025. Officine Storiche. We not only have the commercial part, we also have the residential part. And we are on Page 25 of the presentation. This is the new part. Let me remind you that the old part, 73 flats for the first Mazzini -- the Mazzini project were all sold. We are talking about 73 flats. We had another 42 that were sold later in time. Out of the 42, 30 have already been sold. For the remaining 12, we have 5 binding proposals that will be completed in 2024 with deed, with a notary public. And then the remaining 7, we are confident, if not to be able to complete the selling between '24 and '25, to really finish the selling, the cash-in for this -- EUR 7 million in 2022, EUR 6 million in 2023, and we expect another EUR 4 million for 2024. We're always talking about cash. And on Page 26, you find a summary of our investment pipeline, and it was laid down in our business plan spanning 2022-2024. EUR 35 million worth of investments in 2022, another EUR 25 million in 2023. And there's still EUR 20 million for 2024. Those are the expected investments, of which EUR 9 million are committed and EUR 11 million are not committed. We have no further development project after 2024. Moving on to figures to be crunched. We are on Page 28 -- from 28 onwards. Net rental income goes up EUR 5.6 million, up 5%, with rental income going up EUR 5.1 million and costs being cut by EUR 400,000. And all that -- and now moving to Page 29, a list to an improvement in our core business EBITDA and the relevant margins as well, EBITDA margin, growing from EUR 103.4 million in 2022 to EUR 108.2 million in 2023. And the growth was driven by the net rental income growth and also income from service, net service income, that is not as meaningful as the other one. And then we have EUR 5 million growth in general expenses. That leads margin -- EBITDA margin growing, landing at 72.1%. I'm talking about core business EBITDA margin whilst EBITDA margin for freehold is 74.1%, and therefore better than that of the core business EBITDA margin. That also factors in leasehold assets. And so far so good from an economic and financial viewpoint. Let's now move to Page 30. And here, we see the increase -- the rate increase between 2022 and 2023 affected our -- both our P&L and financial management. We go from financial management in 2022 slightly over EUR 30 million to about EUR 49 million in 2023. If we look -- if we compare these 2 values and we put them in a nonrecurring items, then accounted for in compliance with IFRS 16, it will be 57%. So it's a very high growth. FFOs, funds from operations, we've already looked at it over the year. It is down from EUR 67.2 million to EUR 55.4 million in 2023. On a positive note is the core business EBITDA increase, but we feel the weight of adjusted financial management. So the difference between EUR 42.7 million and EUR 27.3 million, then you must add debt and versus -- it takes us to EUR 55 million. And if we refer to the guidance, when we talked about a refinancing transaction, we exceeded the guidance by a couple of millions from end of November, so to say. And we went back to the guidance we had given in February. This is slightly better than the February guidance. But in February, we had not estimated and factored in the refinancing costs. Page 33, EPRA indicators, I've already said during the introduction. I've told you how the value per share declined. NRV were 9.22, about 10 percentage points. And you see at the bottom of the slide, EPRA share, how it performed starting from 2022 to the end of 2023. We had EUR 55 million roughly of FFO -- overall FFO divided by EUR 110 million, you get to the EUR 0.50, decline in fair value per share of EUR 1.26 per share. And then dividend paid, well, EUR 0.30 per share. So you get to EUR 9.22 per share. And on Page 34, you see how our NFP moved, starting from 2022, EUR 977 million roughly to 2023. We broke it down by quarter. We had a very strong cash generation in the first 2 quarters. And the first half, we had a dividend distribution, about EUR 33 million, EUR 0.30 per share for the 110 million of shares outstanding. Cash flow in the third quarter was EUR 11.1 million, and the decline in Q4 is already factoring in the higher cost in our financial management. NFP is down of about -- to EUR 968 million. So we generated cash even after paying a dividend. Loan-to-value is growing. And then we had write-downs, real estate write-downs and the decline in market value. You can see it at the bottom of the page, we go from a loan-to-value of 45.7% at the end of 2022 to a loan-to-value of 48.1% at year-end. And then we gave you a pro forma for 2023, including the disposal transaction. I'm sure you all read about it in our press release last Friday. ICR is down, but it's still above 2x; it's 2.4x. And the average cost of debt, because of the higher cost in our financial management, lands at 3.86%. As I said during the introduction, during 2023, we refinanced a stock of debt totaling EUR 650 million with 2 transactions. And all this, despite the well-known difficulties in accessing the markets, the financial markets, by everyone, only over the past few weeks, we've seen a few positive signs with markets showing signs of reopening. So EUR 650 million is made up of the green secured loan with a pool of banks by EUR 250 million and exchange and tender offer and consent solicitation, which was launched successfully so in November, totaling EUR 400 million. With the cash coming or the liquidity coming from these loans, we refinanced early our USPP, so the private placement maturing in January 2024 for a total of EUR 100 million, and above all, the bond maturing in November 2024. All this, as you can see on Page 36, takes us to the new financial maturity profile. What you see that for the coming 3 years, the current 2024 and the coming 2 years, we do not have any significant maturities in the ordinary ones and with this cliff in 2027 and EUR 205 million in 2028. Consider that at the closing of the transaction, which is expected to take place at the end of April with the cash in of this EUR 155 million, we will bring down the last 2 bars for '27 and '28. And we will, therefore, considerably reduce our stock of debt. I already mentioned ratings. This debt has an average maturity of slightly less than 4 years. So over the coming 3 years, our finance department will work at refinancing early these 3 loans, which had a cost that was the result of market conditions in 2022 and 2023, particularly penalizing. So it is in our interest as soon as the market improves, and we hope this takes place soon, which is our intention to have an early refinancing of the 3 of them and so reduce the cost of our financial management. I imagine a lot of questions will focus on this because I was saying in the beginning that a few days ago, there was a press release containing some details of a transaction, which we closed preliminarily last Friday. The closing of which should take place by the end of April. With this transaction, as you can see, we have the disposed portfolio. There are 15 assets, including 11 hypermarkets and 2 shopping malls for an NOI of about EUR 17 million. The portfolio was valued at EUR 258 million, more or less in line with our book value at year-end. The cash-in on a gross basis will be EUR 155 million. Perhaps a couple of millions will go into the costs related to the transaction, and it will be used entirely to reduce our debt. So again, the preliminary agreement was signed last Friday, and the closing is expected to take place by the end of April 2024. A few details concerning this transaction. So a real estate investment fund was established. The name is Food, which is managed by Prelios SGR. 60% of it will be held by an SPV, 50% of which will be held by Sixth Street, and 50% by Starwood Capital with Class A shares with preferred return, and 40% will stay in IGD's hands with Class B shares with subordinated return. So IGD will be given a mandate to manage the project, property and facility management activities. The goal is to further enhance the portfolio with a view to selling it to the market on the best possible terms in the coming years. Of course, this is -- I mean on a payment basis and tenants will not be involved. The fund has no financial debt and will not have financial debt in the future. As I said, partners are the 3 that you see identified in the box at the bottom of the page. We have Sixth Street and Starwood, 2 leading investors, American, and we have Prelios that will manage the fund. What will be the impact on IGD? Here, you see our market value and how it changes. Our market value, so the hyper supermarket component accounting for over 20%. But after the disposal, this is a pro forma figure, but we will go down to 11.2%. So we are almost halving the share of hyper and supermarkets in our portfolio. Loan-to-value, it is as a pro forma figure. It will go back -- will go down by 3.7 percentage points. So it will be slightly below 45%, at 44.4%. Net rental income on a per year basis will be down by EUR 17 million, but we will have, on a yearly basis, a benefit of about EUR 13 million in terms of a decrease in financial charges, EUR 11 million and EUR 2 million EBITDA. So again, there will be a negative by about EUR 4 million for IGD on a yearly basis. Coming now to the final slide. This is the dividend considering the negative fair value movements that entail a negative net result for IGD. There is no obligation to distribute a dividend in 2024 in compliance with SIIQ rules. Therefore, IGD in 2024 for 2023 will not pay any dividends. I'd like to take you now to the final slide concerning our outlook for 2024. We forecast in terms of operating results on a like-for-like basis, that is to say considering the divested portfolio, we expect growth in 2024 too. EBITDA growing by about 3%. So we keep... [Audio Gap]

I have a question on valuations and the increase in yield, the yield expansion, versus the gross initial yield. And compared to what you have disclosed in June, it's quite limited. So the delta is quite limited. But the impact on your income statement was higher than my expectations. Could you elaborate on this? Could you give us some color on that and how valuations are faring? And if you could tell us something about your expectations for 2024.

Roberto Zoia will answer the question.

Yes, as a matter of fact, we had a decline that was higher than expected during the first half of 2023, and that was driven by interest rate hikes and increases on the discount side because, of course, VCE rates went -- BCE rates went up or hiked in second half. And then looking at the write-downs, if we take the total amounts of our freehold that we had about 2% in the first half, that went too far because of this fair value decrease. And that was mainly driven by a further increase of the 2 rates I mentioned. If we compare it to 2024, we think that at least discount rates should have reached a level that's quite high. And unless there are other rate hikes, meaning financial rate hikes, it should stay flat. The problem is in case of transactions that may take place in the first half of 2024, what kind of yields, what kind of underlying yields we will have, and then we'll make a valuation from that. We'll take stock from there.

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from Giuseppe Grimaldi from Exane BNP Paribas.

I have two questions. The first one concerns your disposals. Are you considering further disposals? And can you give us an idea of the geographical areas where you're planning them for, for example, either in Italy or Romania? Second question. My second question is on financial charges. In the light of the divestment transactions for 2024, what did you consider in your budget?

Okay. In our business plan, we had envisaged the disposal in a range of EUR 180 million to EUR 200 million. This transaction accounts for EUR 155 million roughly. It was one of the 3 asset classes. We wanted to also sell a portfolio made up of hyper and supermarkets. This -- but this, I mean, is what we have already done. And then we had also expected or planned to sell part of our portfolio in Romania and 3 sort of subareas in Livorno. Then, of course, we are working at making valuations by Roberto. Roberto and the authorities are working on it. It's very difficult in Italy. We want to actually enhance the value of these areas, there are 3 of them, and then sell them on the market. There will be a one-off impact on our accounts, about EUR 20 million. Then in remainder, the situation is different. We are still working, we are scouting on the market. And we might decide that we sell part of our portfolio, not necessarily the entire portfolio, but we will see whether in the course of 2024. We are working on it. We are assisted by leading consultants, and we will see that we manage to sell at least part of our Romanian portfolio. But again, the EUR 153 million, net of the relevant expenses as opposed to EUR 180 million to EUR 200 million, which we had planned for, is 80% of what we had planned. So if we can continue the disposal of part of the Romanian portfolio, then we will have reached our target, but then we might also consider doing something else in 2024. It depends on the market conditions, on the proposals that we received, et cetera. Financial charges. So this -- our CFO will provide you with further details.

Okay. 2024, considering the time when the proceeds will be cashed in April and considering the notices that are needed for the early repayment, the advantage goes down to EUR 3.4 million, EUR 3.5 million, whereas on an annual basis, I confirm it is the EUR 11 million that we disclosed in the presentation. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] Next question comes from -- it's a follow-up by Simonetta Chiriotti with Mediobanca.

I was wondering about dividends. There are a number of elements that have to be taken into account, the net profit performance for the SIIQ regulations and then the bond regulations. Can you please remind us of the parameters that we'll have to factor in or take into account for 2024?

Well, 2024, it will very much depend on the results coming from the exempt accounts. But the main thing is to be able to pay dividends again in -- distribute dividends again in 2024. Apart from the COVID action, where we did not pay a dividend, IGD has always paid out dividends, on the one hand because, of course, we have a regulatory duty, but we've always -- there's a voluntary part to be paid out. But because of the regulations, we cannot pay that out for the -- so there's no obligation for 2023, as I said before, for the 2023 dividends. But for 2024, it will depend on how we perform. And it was -- it had a big -- well, fair value decrease, of course, had a big impact on that. And so we're not compelled to force to pay a dividend. But should that be a positive result instead, we would have to pay out a dividend at least 70% of it. It will very much depend on how we perform. On the operating side, I'm not concerned. And the question was asked before, how will the change in fair value fare in 2024. We hope that this hemorrhage somehow, that this negative fair value, fair value decrease will stop, will come to an end. In 2023, we had about EUR 138 million that was driven by the decrease in fair value because of IFRS 16. Remember that between 1990 and 2023, IGD had about EUR 470 million worth of negative fair value between fair value and IFRS 16. So it's almost -- well, it's EUR 470 million that affected us. The 2 COVID years were very bad for everyone and there was a big fair value decrease. But also the fact that rates went up over the last couple of years had a negative impact on our performance. So we are currently trying to run after the right value to try and to decrease it. Our net financial position went down in 2023 and also in 2022. But if the net financial position declines -- but if market value declines even more than it, so you have a loan-to-value that goes up. So far, we've been chasing it and we've managed to be all right to the disposal, one in November 2021 and this recent disposal that will be closed in April. But we know that IGD has to get to a loan-to-value that's closer to 40% than 45%. So if there were a good opportunity to do another disposal, we're going to do it. But it's like having a short -- a blanket that's too short. I sell assets, my loan-to-value declines, but also my NOI declines, and so -- and that upsets my P&L as we've seen in our guidance for 2024.

Our next question comes from the English conference call, Alvaro Mata.

Two questions from my side. The first one is in regards to the disposal of the portfolio for EUR 258 million, cash-in of that portfolio will be EUR 155 million. And what we know is that you have to use some of that to repay mortgage debt that you have on those assets. So I guess the question is what is the amount of the mortgage debt on those assets, and therefore what is the amount remaining that you'll have to pay down debt? And then the question will be, will the amount be fully dedicated to repay the 2027 bond?

Very well, Andrea Bonvicini, our CFO, will take this question.

Okay. As for the net sales proceeds, as Mr. Albertini was saying, that will be slightly lower, about EUR 153 million, of which about EUR 62 million corresponds to the allocated loan amount, which will have to be reimbursed on the secured loan, which IGD signed in May 2023. The remaining part based on forecasts and of the limitations envisaged by the rules will be devoted amongst other things to partially reimburse the loan within 120 days from the cash-in of proceeds, which should take place at the end of April. So we will communicate the exact amount very shortly. Of course, the company is interested in actually repaying the most expensive loans and in doing so as early as possible. This is as much as I can say right now.

Okay. And then second and last question, can you give you me a guidance for 2024 CapEx?

Okay. So we're still talking to Alvaro Mata, correct? Yes. So we envisaged and we indicated that on page -- let me find it -- on Page 26, you see the investment pipeline for 2024. They account for about EUR 20 million, of which EUR 9 million committed investments, which we'll actually do anyway, and EUR 11 million, which can be deferred. They're not committed. You see that on Page 26. I did not say that before, let me say it now. Under our business plan, we had envisaged about EUR 82 million worth of investment. It's slightly less here. It's about 80 million. We slightly reduced our pipeline, which could go down further because, as I said, EUR 11 million are not committed.

[Operator Instructions] Mr. Albertini, ladies and gentlemen, there are no more questions in the queue.

Thank you very much. Just to remind you that on the last page, Page 56 of the presentation, before I say goodbye to you, let me remind you, on April 18, we have the shareholders' meeting. And then on May 7, we have the first quarter results, Q1 results. August 1, we have the first half results, and November 7, we have Q3 results. And then on March 20, we will attend the STAR conference of the Italian Stock Exchange. So you will find us there, if you want. Thank you very much and talk to you soon.

This is the Chorus Call operator. The conference call has come to an end. You may disconnect your phones. Thank you. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]