Immobiliare Grande Distribuzione SIIQ S.p.A. (IGD) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon. This is call operator. Welcome to IGD's presentation of H1 2024 results. [Operator Instructions] Let me turn the conference over to Ms. Zoia, CEO of IGD.

Good afternoon to all of you. Thank you for attending the conference despite its August 1 with a very awful weather. We have just approved the half year results. I mean the board has just approved the half year results. And I'm going to share some more info as well. I'm sure you already read the press release. I will walk you through the presentation, and then we will have a Q&A session. At the beginning, we have the presentation, now have introduced -- we have introduced where we want to head that is to say our priority is what we want to do with the company. We want to increase core business profitability. We want to enhance our financial position, meaning refinancing our maturities and we want to generate additional value through our businesses service for third parties. For the first time in this quarter, it will be presented through a slide, just to give you a flavor of what we are doing at least. And in this half year result, we tried to show you all of our offering teams with reference to the focus we have. We have a strong focus on sustainability. And in our day-to-day business, we want to focus on the environment and whatever pertains to the ESG. So, let's move on to financial highlights. The first thing I'd like to share with site disposal that was completed in April. A very strong disposal we're talking the hypermarket, a shopping mall and a retail market. So we see that despite the net rental income is slap down 0.01%, and on a like-for-like basis, we have net rental income equal to -- well, it would be up 4.5% EBITDA. EBITDA versus EBITDA, [indiscernible] generally speaking[indiscernible] Of course effect our FFO for [indiscernible] FFO, which on the low fourth quarter revenue compared to like-for-like basis, in 6%, considering any impact on retail. We're talking about RV we also declining in value [indiscernible]. As we said before, the objective of a disposal, tactical disposals, as I said before, was a team to cut our LTV and therefore give us the opportunity as of to the market with the long-term value that would be lower than 52 [indiscernible] Page 6, really is the fact that it's still a long way there started our journey in the first quarter of new covenants as our new governor this data to make us hope for the best for looking forward. And on March, we had in renewables, we have a downside of 3.5%. In this second quarter, we have a 3.6% as ideation completely offsetting change the negative risk. And I also mentioned some pre-technology that I have identified. I was appointed both W-A-L-B, Walb. And -- and there too, we are really focusing. We're working for to extend maturities in this model. And again, in part are a good journey. We went from 1.78% in Q2. We went to 1.62% in Q2 2024. Please remember that the renegotiation of breakpoints hapenned stepwise, we renewed more but at the same time, we all want to maturity, and it's there for a conflict negotiation. However, I want to show you this is now that is according to me, a positive figure after what we told each other last time on July 4, we are keeping our format, and we're trying to focus on outside and one . And we have further target, that is to say within the time line of our business, and we want to achieve 2 occupants of our assets. And in 3 months, if we take EUR 20 million worth of average and take more alone its 22, 21 basis points and Romanian occupancy went on basis for -- so the headlines we're walking to how headway you're walking in [indiscernible] On the profit side we have a very sizable effect on the profit side [indiscernible]. And I can finally give you the result annual property valuation assets on our portfolio detail slightly, less slightly down 5% as we write down. Mainly driven, as you can see on the slide, the delta between minus 0.31 and minus from mode minus the [indiscernible] hypermarket. That's the data we are looking at because all indicated in September were pointing towards a much higher inflation and inflation was lower than expected. And that, of course, has an impact on rate [indiscernible] without considering rates, we have this minimum impact. What I'd like to test is that the first half on a like-like basis, was very positive one, indeed, compared to the right balance we experienced in the previous year. And the curve is indeed -- the performance curve is indeed as we also talked the board this morning, we're starting to see some on alliances to say, but we've been over the last couple of years. In order to calculate the loan-to-value in the quarter, I think the net debt that we have, you compare to the EUR 1.7 billion of applicable properties, and then there are 2 leasehold properties, EUR 13.5 million, and there are 2 equity investments, which are the juice and food and which we will talk about a minute from now. So as you can see on Slide 7, the freehold property portfolio had this EUR 8.5 million, which is the result of lower inflation than expected, but I believe that this is going to change towards the year-end. Then we have the lease food portfolio with a structural write-down related to IFRS standards basically speaking, we have asset rents that we have to calculate the right of use, and this too is an item that will go down to 0, half of which they will disappear in 2026, and the remaining part will indeed go down in 2027 and be illuminated in SA. So because monthly will present our business plan, and you will see that in 2026, you will no longer have this effect. And in '27, everything will be down to 0. Let me talk about the good stake impact this disposal be carried out. It's a very important impact, EUR 29 million. Let me say that it is a one-off effect. And let me try and explain what it means very rapidly. And then, of course, we can drill down, if needed. You will remember, that we disposed of this portfolio. We contributed that to a fund, then we disposed of 60% of the fund stakes, and we kept 40%. Now our first assessment was the following. So we sold 60, and this leads to the consolidation once we've carried out the assessment based on governance systems and the accounting standards that we use the portfolio was disposed of. We remain with 40%. And now we have to consider that cash flows needed to actually improve the situation of equity indeed of a lower grade compared with Class A unitholders. This[indiscernible] 60 investors. Now since we have postponed the system that we used is the discounted cash flow system. So we talk about stake, we applied the business plan with the disposals when the plan we've discounted the flows based on a rate with the IG group rate, and this leads to a one-off effect. This will not be just the business plan, which means that once say [indscernible]. Clearly, when we actually implement the business plan when it comes to the foot plant and if everything goes as expected at that time, we will get like EUR 100 in EUR 100 million of the stake, and there will be a potential capital gain, which could be booked at the time when it is actually realized. But today, we have this right down, which I want to repeat it once again is a one-off. In the light of all this impact on our balance sheet, we obviously see a decline in the EPRA NRV, which goes to 8.92% from 9.22% and this is driven by the impact on the FFO and the impact on the asset and take valuations. Purely commercial and performance terms and on Slide 9 now, you will see that we have a footfall growing compared with the previous year. It is not something that we should take for granted because with opportunities to say that potholes takes a little bit more time to recover. Whereas we saw a positive performance, we have a minus 0.5% on tenant sales. But let me say right now that this basically concerns a specific product type, electronics. We have been growing at 19% to 22%. Sorry, in 2019 and 2020 and also until the first half of 2023. Of course, the weather did not help. But anyway, I believe this is fully in line with the market. This morning, the Italian daily Solent Cuatro provide figures on the CNCC monitoring end minus 0.9% for the general shopping rolls, but we're going to a little bit better than that. Now collection rate, we remain on a high performance level, 95%, which is an improvement compared to the first quarter for Italy and 96% for Romania. We keep opening new helping centers and we open new stores. We are actually ranging from services to catering, restraurants and regular stores. We have several openings. And the most important one, which will be opened on the 5th of September, concerns the Notorius cinemas, which we have a very strong partnership. We are already partnered in Milan. In Centrotec we will open in UCI in Ferrara, and this is indeed something that bodes well for the whole asset. Let me now say something about Associate [indiscernible] There was a positive impact in terms of valuation. And this is because the new leases are coming on stream. On Sunday, we successfully saw the opening of Sinse, a Polish chain, which is growing considerably in Italy. We made a joint communication with Primark. We communicated with opening in September that will be met our network, the second Primark store in the region of Tuscany and Primark. Problem was actually organized in the tune of people who will want to actually visit the score on the 30th September. When presenting the business plan, we said that we would focus on digital activities. You will see on Slide 12 that out of the 6 shopping centers of the plan. The app is already being widely used, which allows us, as we said, at long last, to have what is known as the IGD ecosystem, where in cooperation with individual tenants, we are offering promotions for new products, which are immediately submitted to the attention of our clients who are registered users of our app, and this is an excellent opportunity to shopping as well as getting to know the shopping center and the services, which are offered there. So this is really very interesting. As to our focus for first Conti business unit, we've given you compress press release amounted, but also we've already given some figures, we are expecting to achieve for the future going forward. On the food front, for instance, we have a main fee, mid and guaranteed fee for our facility management and asset property services, but we also have a lever that we can use on variable compensations. In this quarter for -- on behalf of strong, we've been performing a major leasing activity, we've been really left reverse of the and care. And we performed the full renegotiation with tenant activity, and that will, of course, lead to a zoneable fee that will be paid to us and will be running up our -- and improve our core business results. From, annual SIIQ point of view, and I'm moving to Page 14 14,what completed above possible ban for system. It will be ready up and running as of September. We are connecting it to the grid. And at that point, we will have 12 plants on systems with a sensible peak power annual on the slide. And then to share this with you because it's been a journey that myself has embarked on over the board because we want to somehow do something for our coworkers as well. So this is an important step in our journey, as I said before, we joined the renewal of the National Collective later ramen that was promoted by Coles [indiscernible] and all other Italian court also enjoy Interome, we're very happy and satisfied. It's going to cost us some things at a corporate level, but this is, I think, it's an excellent way to improve relationships with our coworkers with our people. That's why we wanted to show you best step as well with renewal as well that we think is very meaningful also for our human. And that's not a drive into figure. I like this very much because in 60 way, and we have a net rental income in EUR 59 million in H1 2023. And we disposed EUR 2.6 million worth of net rental, but somehow we recovered that both through the growth in our hypermarket laws but also to our growth as a whole. If we look at this time frame, we still 69 real dispose of some assets, then we -- and yes, we are back to 69 that is very interesting because people know that at least for the time being we have not cut our revenue as much. That's very very minor. Look at core business EBITDA, we have 53.8% with the start of assets. We disposed of 2.6 million of EBITDA. And yes, we are not to 53.9 opening of oil and then the growth our portfolio here and we were at 53.8%. We are now at a port urinate Italy's EBIT is 73.9% were made slightly less at the EBITDA margin we're talking. And it's mainly 2 costs that are being part and sets and EBITDA margin if we just consider our freehold that is landing at 75.8%. Let's look to Page 18 for now. We talk about our financial position and the affected and line in our -- because of our financial position, which doubled profit went from 1 to Well, with rebrand, it's EUR 17.9 million to EUR 30.5 million. And then EUR 1.3 million worth of nonrecurring items and now it's 6.4%. So this net financial position is really affecting us negatively. But despite that, our FFO 2019, it was slightly 5.10 in Q1. We are now at 18.3, but we have to consider the change in the group of consolidation as well as the increase in the financial position, which accounts for 10.6 impact on the FFO. So we have a little bit less of change in EBITDA in the portfolio, so minus 2.6 which is basically offset by our core business, then 12.6, minus 12.6 because of the difference in the financial position, down to an FFO of 18.3. On Slide 20, you see the group's net results. We started off from a net loss of EUR 47.1 million. We changed so the real estate perimeter by 2.6%. So the group net result reviewed after the disposal would have been restated after the disposal would have been 49.7%. And here, we see a positive impact of lower write-downs and also an increase in the financial position, 46.9 at 17.7 financial position and 29.1 million, the food impact, which I mentioned before, which leads to a net result of EUR 32.5 million. And here too, I'd like to emphasize the following: next of the one-off write-down of EUR 29 million despite this very, very expensive financial position, we would have gotten close to 0. This means that in the second half year since we will no longer have this one-shot effect and helping that valuations have stopped declining and can to start growing again, then clearly, we will have results that will be more consistent with a group the likes of IGD. Importantly, despite the financial position, the core business holds well and remains resilient and can lead to positive results, very positive results. On Page 21 now. Now on the one hand, we have lower net revenues. On the other hand, we have lower net debt. Let me say that once again, the food disposal had one single purpose. We wanted to cash in EUR 155 million. We wanted to adjust the loan to value, and we wanted to provide incentive signal to the market, showing that we are able to repay debt as soon as possible. We have an LTV, which is at 44.9%. When presenting the Q1 results, we had a pro forma of 44.4 million. But after the write-down, the food impact, that accounts 0.5%. But here, again, this is mostly driven by the food deal. And anyway, we are still below 45%. Average cost of debt, as we saw in previous slides, it has a raging impact. We went from 3.86% to 6.05%, whereas for the covenants for the various loans, we are absolutely in a comfort zone. Last but not least. I'd like to show you for the third time for the third consecutive time, Slide 22 with the 2027 cliff. I kept by my debt side at home. And we've been working a lot on this over the past few weeks. The idea, which we announced is that we want to reshape the maturity profile. We want to reduce the cliff. And I'd like to say right now that the banking system was quite positive about this. They welcome this. We -- over the past few weeks, we've met more or less all the banks that are counterpart to our loans, the EUR 215 million unsecured loan, the secured loan by EUR 250 million, which went down to EUR 190 million. The pool appeared to be interested in our ideas. We keep having conversations in particular with Fitch. The idea being, wherever possible to maintain an investment-grade rating. And this is because today, we will turn to the banking system a little bit more. But in the future, maybe for smaller situations, not the EUR 300 million and EUR 350 million, but perhaps for EUR 100 million or EUR150 million, we might decide not to give up the possibility of turning to the market. But as a priority, we want to reduce the 2027 cliff. We want to lengthen maturities, and we want to have a maturities that becomes a little bit more linear and less way than it is today. That being said and despite the major impact on financial charges and in light of the fact that the core business is beginning to make small steps in the right direction. We shouldn't be in a hurry to me having these 3 months with all pluses in terms of net rent of all finance rates is indeed something important. We want to confirm, therefore, once again what we had already stated on the 7th of May. So FFO of EUR 34 million. Lastly, we have a series of ins and days, and we will have the results that will be presented on the 7th of November to the third quarter. And we've already confirmed a series of initiatives with the market, with the aim of describing everything and sharing whatever everything you're doing. I'd like to stop here, and I would like to leave room for possible questions. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from the line of Arianna Terazzi with Intesa Sanpaolo.

[indiscernible] than expected I'm going to ask us for questions. I hope [indiscernible] can give us more color on the value ratio 0.5% you mentioned on your portfolio. Would you have more hope elaborate we talked about a month ago. Could you deliver your [indiscernible]

Very well. No, the 0.5, which is actually this 0.83 and 0.31 malls, the other ones was hypermarkets. So the opposite in the past, is the result of lower inflation. In November, we had a slightly higher inflation in the first year in our DCS at the end of the first 6 months we to the first year, we see 1.7 in the end of June 2025. This is a little bit lower. And this other CF level has an impact on float, and this is why you see this little decline. Interestingly, differentiated 9, 0.80 is the hypermarket. They have a very long duration. You know that they end at 12.2 years. So after 10 years, this year. So hypermarkets in terms of rents grow only with inflation. When there is an inflation forecast which is lower than expected, then of course, revenues affected. Malls are 0.31 compared to 0.84, which means that remarketing activities were done on a market level. So there was a growth, the plus 3.6 million of this quarter for the leases that were renegotiated, which are worth about 4% of the total rent. And then there was a slight decline. The discount rate did not include the 25 basis points of the -- this ECB rate reduction with only part of it was reflected -- and this is the effect of the actual write-down of the decline. And a few assets actually declined a little bit more, others actually increase in value, particularly to assets in Tuscany, the office, but that is a mathematical effect because since we see a sense in Primark providing revenue and they are 2 large purposes, and this applies to the half year period. We are considering this leads to an increased cash flow on an annual basis. Hence the fact Maria, which is a shopping mall in Greece is doing very well. Therefore, I mean, we see growth there. There might have been a few losses, but everything very small so. And this is for the actual rate. On the renegotiations. Well, I've mentioned this already. Again, with colleagues, we've had conversations with all the banks, which are currently involved in the 2 banking loans, we saw a positive sentiment, then of course, they're all expecting to see how accounts are going to perform and how the business is going to perform. Sale by good environment. So by the time we present the business plan by year-end, I guess I can give you a color on this renegotiation activity. Let me also add something net of the site at repaying the bond, which is the most expensive instrument. There will be a benefit also in the financial position. But right now, priority is given you were making our maturities a little bit more linear before we even start talking about having considerable savings related to rates. And therefore these effects. So we are highly focused on this. We're working hard on it. And we believe that in the next few months, we will have the possibility of providing color on this refinancing activity.

The next question comes from the line of Simonetta Chiriotti with Mediobanca.

I have a question on your sales in Romania asset sales, I mean, you got a new strategy last month, you shared when you be able to info on your new business and it has evaluations do you think the inflation of pose should be line while there should be a rate increase that should be favorable or a favorable. Could there be any [indiscernible] of the year. We are also concerning evaluation. As far as I understand, the item, which is for EUR 39 million for the good JV. This has nothing to do with natural asset valuation. So we set a write down or are in the JV result. And then the last question on to that we can expect in the second half of the year kind of improvement of debt to EUR 80 million of the most expensive part of your debt on your loan.

t from the easy ones. So the JV food write-down or impairment has nothing to do with the assets. In fact, the assets properties which were assessed and evaluated by the funds are absolutely in line with the valuation, which has been done through the contribution. It's really on cash flows. Given that we have subordinated Class B asset. We considered that this equity could be recouped in about 5 years. These cash flows were discounted. As I said, with a discount rate, which is equal to the group 1, hence, the write-down impairment. It has nothing to do with the assets. Of course, it is not very intuitive met, but I will explain this very well. It is the result of cash flows, which have nothing to do with asset valuations or property valuations. It's just the valuation of the stake. And there was a question on the cost of debt. Well, of course, we're beginning to see something. But more in the retail area or mortgages for residential homes in our case, it will be slower. Clearly, though, the idea is that this cost of debt should go down. We will not see a major decline and a lot would depend on the refinancing deal that we will make. For Romania, the process is ongoing. We have started a series of conversations quite fruitful. As I've already said, and I can confirm that the fact of selling individual assets, single assets encourages private investors, family offices to go very close to the book value. So there is a lot that is sort of being in the pipeline, but Grande communicated when we have news. Well, let me point out that we're not talking about sales of EUR 100 million. We are talking about individual items, individual assets whereby you're selling making sales was 8 million to 10 million assets at the time we consider that this could take a couple of years, but it will be very important to me and when we meet next to say that we actually proceeded with the first disposal. We are highly focused on this. We are working a lot on this. So the idea is refinancing and disposal of Romania. It's quite hot topic. And that, of course, first of all, rates will tend to go down. So therefore, in the approval models, at least the discount rate could go down in the valuation. Which increase in the discounted cash flow. Secondly, we saw that the market is beginning to do something. In the first half year period, retail performed much better than offices. I believe that by year-end, there will be other transactions. I believe that there is a positive environment. Let me say once again, the retail area is the one that has 100, 150 points more in terms of yields compared to logistics, not to mention offices. Which is why I believe that -- I can't tell you whether there's going to be a write-back or an improvement in values. But as I said before, when I said -- when I looked at the group result with 37 of the loss, if you deduct the 291 short, we would have landed at minus 8 plus the FFO, which is produced in the second half year period, and we hope we can have a positive effect on valuations, which means that the minus sign on the item line should be a thing of the past. I'm rather optimistic and are optimistic based on the figures I'm seeing today, my perception of the market is that today, there are other asset classes which are slightly more worrying, whereas the retail part appears to have gone back in -- that become interesting for investors again. And then, of course, there will be an improvement in the future if the conditions are right.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from the line of Federico Pezzetti with Intermonte.

Good afternoon to all of you, and thank you very much for the presentation. I only have a couple of questions, a very, very short one. The first one is about the increase in rent on a like-for-like basis. It's 4.5% you mentioned to break it down better. Could you mention the underlying drivers, indexation, et cetera? And then the second question on your collection rate, 95% from 91% in the first quarter to 95% now. Was there any specific effect leaving after leaving upside? And then what are you going to do in this next quarter?

My name is [indiscernible] I will address the second question. We said that when communicating the results of the first quarter, this is something quite cyclical. It's quite cyclical to have lower figures in the first quarter. This 95 tells us that there are no major issues. Of course, we need to keep monitoring the situation -- you should not be tolerant, so to speak. And our peers have a target of 95%, 98%, 97%, knowing that the first quarter is always a rather more negative one, and the last one tends to be the most positive. So let's say that this 95% is a good balance, something that can show an improvement like-for-like, where there are 2 components of revenues. The first is inflation growth. Inflation is growing less than expected. But when compared to the last year, and you saw what happened in the second half year of 2023 and then what happened in the first half year period of 2024, when you see the effect of indexation of the contract, you see a growth. There was an impact on the side. And then that is something that is going to play a role in the coming -- in the coming quarters. So referring to the steps which are granted with the renewals or new marketing activities. For example, a new tenant. In particular, if they have to go for major investments in the tools would ask for the following -- well, we will pay you eventually 100. Perhaps you can help me with 10 the first year in the second year. So it's sort of step rent agreement. So it's a virtuous circle because let the actual step rents become -- that were granted in 2021, 2022, 2023, when the full rents are being paid at that point, you see an advantage and you see an increase in the overall value. This is an excellent driver and we are using it in order to increase our world. What we're trying to do in a hard to say this is really an taking job, but excluding results, we say, well, your contract or your lease is that for renewal? I can help you for the first year. Granting a discount in the past year. But if in the past, you had the break option at 36 months. Now you will have it at 48. You need to accept that 48, the right balance between helping tenants in the startup stage, while at the same time, lengthening the duration of the lease, and that is beginning to bear fruit. Consider renewed, as I said before, 4% of our total rents from 1.77% to 1.82 in world, which means that in all the deals we've entered into in the second quarter. noted, we have a little bit of upside, but we also managed to have break options which are slightly longer. So it's a balancing act really. And we also added digital for good measure. So today in the leasing and digital department, we actually considering the possibility of the start-up effect on the rent break options and digital activities, which can lead to a partnership between the shopping center and individual tenants. The app is one of them. But then, of course, we are working also on very many other initiatives in cooperation with our tenants. For example, in terms of events as well as communication to build customer loyalty, too. So it's a joint action where we said that as we going to motor in the past, but I'd like to repeat this experience because I like to actually, you start negotiations when needed, we talk about everything and lease values or internal values are indeed important, but the MDA part of that partnership agreement, which has to be a lengthy one, we have a lot that we can improve on. We have plus 5.3%. We have positive upsides. We have a wall which improved. A lot remains to be done that we shut off from a level where it can improve -- that is my impression. And this is the impression I wanted to share with you today.

Simonetta Chiriotti with Mediobanca.

We would like to take advantage of your point of view on. How do you view the credit consumption in the second half of the year based on our current performance of course.

If you look at the half and then the outlook for the second half, your peers do not seem to be very positive about the outlook on consumption going forward also as payment target activity take in this respect to the somehow health check or your penance and what is the trend you expect on their revenues on their sales. Okay. We are monitoring them very closely so I look at easily as a country more than at digital biographies or because there are different codes and the different parts of the company. But I see a shrinking in how consumption, what we can say about the outlook is and that may change our approach in the field of gene product the sector electronics, which really boomed with exacting first for the table of for deep holders and then with closet because we've all been buying the last line of electronics. It's a kind of casita has to be our water home. And the is of stores where we are treated going forward. not just because we have omnichannel approaches as well also to say we want to pay on rent on personal than the store. And I think that has to be -- we have to keep an eye on that because -- and although luckily in our portfolio, we don't have very large stores at the electronics. We've always bet on 1,500 maximum 2,000 square meters on media world in the older age say they wanted or 1,000 square meter that almost still have to be downside. Then clothing and footwear. The clothing suffered a lot and footwear as well announce also these tenants, they were almost bankrupt in the past, and now they are trying to move on but focusing on a different segment because they have novelties, they have to have low prices advancement for instance, on our tenants, which is a little bit new product is performing well, and they are opening a lot for. So it's very much the sense on individual plates. And then fintech theme is spending its growth somehow. And for the kind of market we have in our shopping malls I don't see it as a critical and retrans in helping more doing real work or the services we are really working on it, and we're doing a lot of work. I'm there to always have to come out with a few ideas going from health care to services to citizens. And for example, something that comes to mind, we are going to have some of these standards enter our shopping malls be when they're having more with more IT web at a store where you can buy and you can shop, you can buy something and then you help by personnel beers they provide services. You might think in cities where you don't have IT, you have these small stores within a shopping mall that rain by furniture and then you have your personal once you bought it. And in our portfolio, we don't have assets with 300 stores, of which 90% of shopping, we are not so worried about consumption, but you need to be very dinner have share cash has gone even when it comes to reference, the one we are doing is to find new brands or the time because we go to the restaurants, those who go and have launched there, but if you have a different use of it by the end of the week, you have enough. So today, I see that rotation turnover also in restaurants, it's possible not call. If the more that going to do it and that inflation will lead to on lots of consumption because prices went up a lot. And I think that if inflation that is going to decline a bit, we should not experience too many problems in our shop in mind. But this, again, is an item that has to be marketed. We never have to be too focused on one product category rather than the other closing in our small peaks of 7 were around -- so if something is an exercise we constantly run on the product factory by product category basis. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] Ms. Zoia, there are normal questions in the queue for the time being. Perfect. Very well. I would like to speak all for joining us, and have a good summary to going on holiday. Talk to you next time. Thank you. Goodbye. This is of course call operator. The conference call is now to an end, and you may disconnect your phones.