Implenia AG (IMPN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

[Interpreted] Good afternoon, and welcome to the Analyst and Media Conference on Implenia's Annual Results for 2022. We are pleased to have you with us today. I would also like to welcome those present in the live stream. My name is Silvan Merki, I am Implenia's Chief Communications Officer here at Implenia. And I have the pleasure of accompanying you throughout this event today. Our presentation will be held in German. However, if you wish to listen to the English version, you may select the English translation in the stream. And we still have some headsets at disposal, if you wish to select one. You will have the possibility to pose your questions here in this room following the presentation or if you prefer, you may also pose them via the live stream chat in German or in English. But before we start, I would like to draw your attention to the disclaimer shown here. We shall proceed as follows today. First, our CEO, Andre Wyss will give you a business update on the annual result 2022. Our CFO, Stefan Baumgartner will then guide you through the financial figures. Finally, Andre Wyss will give you an overview of the market before the 2 presenter speakers are available to answer your questions. And I will now hand over to Andre Wyss for the first part. Andre, the floor is yours.

[Interpreted] Thank you very much, Silvan. Hello to all of you. I am very pleased to present the annual results to you here at Connect for the year 2022. 2022 was, as you have read and heard of a very successful year for Implenia. We were able to complete the transformation in good time and with success. We have entered a new phase with Fit for Growth, which we explained in detail at the occasion of Capital Markets Day on the 1st of November. We are systematically pursuing our 4 strategic priorities, meaning portfolio profitable growth, innovation, talent and organization. We will continue to pursue these in a consequent manner. We will develop high margin businesses through organic and inorganic growth. We focus on sector specialization and integration along the value chain. This is very good results, highlight the success of the transformation. Our business is now perfectly positioned strategically and operationally for sustainable success. This is confirmed by the continuous improvement in financial KPIs over the last 3 years and the strengthening also of the balance sheet. Well, now let's move on to the details of the 2022 financial year. I will comment on the currency adjusted results, which are shown in dark yellow. The group's order backlog reached a new record level of almost CHF 7.5 billion. We acquire projects not only on the basis of price, but increasingly also through our competencies, technical solutions and high-quality standard. Thanks to the continuous and strict application of our risk management, meaning value assurance, the order backlog of all divisions is of significantly higher quality. It consists of large and complex projects with a significantly improved risk and margin profile. The group's turnover is practically at the same level as at that of the previous year. The EBIT has increased significantly to CHF 144 million. All divisions have contributed to the strong result. They have further improved their operating business and are profitable. Our markets contribute positively to these results. We have achieved a lot and the clear improvement in the annual result and the increase in profitability of all divisions confirm that we are on the right track for sustained success. I will now turn to the contribution of each division in more detail. The Real Estate division achieved an above-average result. As expected, the market value of our real estate portfolio of over CHF 350 million at the end of the year is somewhat lower than in the previous year due to the sale of the Evolus projects in Winterthur and Unterfeld Baar. The difference between the book value and the current market value is over CHF 200 million. EBIT has increased significantly to CHF 81 million. This above-average contribution to earnings was mainly due to the sale of projects in the first half of the year. Partnership with Ina Invest has successfully established or been successfully established, so Ina continues to develop beyond its expectations. The division has steadily expanded its service business in recent years with increasing recurring revenues as planned. We continue to invest in our own attractive real estate portfolio. It is well structured, diversified and optimally positioned geographically in urban locations in Switzerland and also in Germany. The division is developing a lively sustainable urban district on the current Bredella industrial and commercial site in Pratteln. It is a complex site development with a hybrid mix of users and a high demand for quality. Les Tattes, in Onex near Geneva is also an example of a multiyear development process in which we can contribute our integrated competencies along the entire value chain. Then comes the Rocket and Tigerli in Winterthur. It is the tallest wooden residential tower in the world. It is an extraordinary project that attracts a lot of attention at the international level. From the very beginning, these projects have been planned and realized according to the latest methods, such as BIM and Lean. The Buildings division was able to increase the order backlog to over CHF 3 billion and has further improved quality. At just under CHF 1.8 billion, sales were only slightly below the previous year's level. The division further increased EBIT to over CHF 36 million. All business units contributed positively to this result. The division is breaking new ground through earlier involvement in projects and partnership-based contract models. Through integration along the value chain, higher margins can be achieved, which will also contribute to increasing profitability in the future. In the growing areas of general planning, consulting and execution of real estate, especially in the health care sector as well as in research and development, Buildings was able to acquire new projects and greatly expand its competencies. In Building Construction, Implenia has acquired numerous residential office and commercial projects. For example, the EUREF Sustainability and Innovation Campus in Dusseldorf, a highly specialized innovation campus with a volume of more than CHF 180 million. The experience regarding sustainability, the competences and planning and construction of real estate for the research and development sector and the internal know-how in Lean cycle planning and BIM models are key elements for the success of the project. With the Cantonal hospitals in Baden Aarau and Lucerne as well as the laboratory building for biomedicine at the University of Basel, we are proving our experience and competence in the specialized field of laboratory and health care buildings. Here, too, digitalization plays a decisive role. The Aarau Cantonal Hospital, the largest new hospital building in Switzerland is being built completely paperless. Civil Engineering division also recorded a successful year. Order backlogs have increased to over CHF 4 billion and sales remained stable at CHF 2 billion. EBIT has increased to CHF 39 million. This is due to the strategic focus on the profitable portfolio, project portfolio and a correspondingly selective choice of projects. Many years of experience and extensive expertise and large and complex infrastructure projects enable civil engineering to position itself optimally in the market. In Civil Engineering, Implenia was also awarded the contract for the main north lot of the second tube of the Gotthard road tunnel in addition to the secondary lots. With Gotthard, Brenner, Lyon-Turin and Semmering, we are the only company to participate in all 4 Alpine crossings. The unique [indiscernible] project in Brandenburg was successfully handed over to the client and inaugurated. Ships overcome a height difference of 36 meters here and thanks to a lift. The division acquired other major infrastructure projects, such as Norway's longest railway bridge. These are technical masterpieces that confirm Implenia's position as a specialist for large complex projects. The Specialties division continues to adjust its portfolio on an ongoing basis as was the case with the sale of the formwork construction business at the end of last year. Despite the adjustments to the portfolio, the order backlog remains at the level of the previous year. As we anticipated, turnover is lower due to these adjustments. The remaining business units achieved stable turnover with a significant increase in EBIT. The division will continue to expand its planning and engineering capabilities by developing and evolving customer-centric business models, adapting its portfolio of innovative services and pursuing attractive acquisition opportunities. The Division services such as timber construction, construction logistics, pre-stressing building and facade technology are increasingly in demand by projects in other divisions and by third-party clients. The division acquired an interesting project in the field of facade technology in cooperation with the building department Berlin Decks. For the new building of the Cantonal hospital in Aarau, BCL is providing all the construction logistics services. BCL's extensive experience in managing logistics for hospital construction made it the ideal partner for buildings. All of Implenia's divisions are involved in the Rocket project in Winterthur, especially Implenia timber construction at Holzbau which was involved in the development and implementation of the complex sustainable wood construction. The divisions benefit from each other. This shows that our integrated model works. We have built up expertise over the years and can clearly state that sustainability is one of our key strengths, USPs. We are our clients' preferred partner in decarbonization and the circular economy and we're the first company in the real estate sector to win the Circular Global Award for our real estate project development. Leading ESG ratings, such as the MSCI AAA, EcoVadis Gold or Sustainalytics industry leaders confirm our industry leadership. We continue to be committed to a shift towards a more sustainable construction and real estate sector. The following is a short video showing how we live the integrated model in practice. Following that, our CFO, Stefan Baumgartner will take us through the financial figures. [Presentation]

[Interpreted] Implenia is creating and building the world of tomorrow, integrated services offer our clients decisive added value in large and complex projects. We always put our clients' needs at the center. We accompany our clients' projects throughout all the different phases. We are one of the few construction and real estate service providers that can cover all services across our 4 divisions from a single source. Implenia is excellently positioned and has a strong foundation focused on our 4 strategic priorities and based on our strong corporate values. On a project-by-project basis, we bring in the best internal and external experts who work together closely from the outset. A good example is Rocket, the world's largest or tallest wooden residential high-rise building, which Implenia is planning in the new city district, Lokstadt in Winterthur. We are taking Rocket through its entire life cycle for our client, Ina Invest from the development of the site and the project to planning, construction and right through to the operational phase. Construction of the innovative building is being handled by division buildings. Our expertise in managing complex and sustainable large-scale projects comes into play as we execute the plans based on services provided by the division of Civil Engineering. Our special foundations team is creating solid foundations for Rocket and thus for the success of the whole project. The heart of the building comes courtesy of Division Specialties. Together with our partners, we have developed the innovative wooden structure, especially for high-rise buildings. As a leading multinational construction and real estate services provider, we offer end-to-end construction expertise for large and complex projects. We also specialize in certain areas such as buildings for the laboratory and health care sector. At the Cantonal hospital in Aarau, currently the largest new hospital building in Switzerland, Implenia is not only operating as a total contractor but is also taking care of building construction and construction logistics. Digital methods such as virtual reality and in construction, ensure that processes are optimized. We involve our clients early on and work further in partnership. Clients benefit from using Implenia's services as an integrated package. It pays off. That is Implenia's strength.

[Interpreted] Thank you very much, Andre, and hello to all of you. I am very pleased to present the figures for the annual financial statements 2022. I would like to start with the group result, which shows the reported results, including foreign currency effects. We achieved an EBIT of CHF 138.9 million for the financial year 2022, which represents a clear increase of 21% compared to the same period last year. All divisions contributed to this result, thanks to their improved operating performance and the above average contribution of the Real Estate division. This resulted in a group EBIT margin of 3.9%. The financial result improved mainly due to a reduction of financing requirements. The reasons for the lower taxes in 2022 are both the capitalization of losses carried forward and the EBIT mix. Due to the above average share of real estate in the group's EBIT, relatively low property gains taxes have influenced the tax burden. In the coming years, we expect a higher tax rate again. Compared to the previous year, Implenia was able to significantly improve its consolidated result, which now stands at around CHF 106 million. As Andre has shown, the order backlog turnover and EBIT are higher in currency-adjusted terms. In particular, translation effects from the euro's and Swiss franc's exchange rate influence results. The reported order backlog is CHF 7.2 billion. Adjusted for currency effects, the order backlog is about CHF 7.5 billion, which is an increase of 8% compared to the previous year. At around CHF 3.7 billion, turnover adjusted for foreign currency effects were roughly at the previous year's level. Reported turnover was CHF 3.6 billion. Both the reported EBIT of approximately CHF 139 million and the currency adjusted EBIT of about CHF 144 million impressively highlight the group's improved performance. There were hardly any transaction effects due to the natural hedging in the local units. Next, I will turn to the balance sheet. Cash and cash equivalents at the end of 2022 were roughly at the previous year's level of around CHF 609 million. The book value of the real estate portfolio was only slightly below the previous year's figure despite the sale of the major projects. After the balance sheet date, Implenia again made further investments in the real estate portfolio. Strict management of net working capital enabled Implenia to make significant progress in reducing its balance sheet total. The revaluation of the work yards of depots was already carried out in the first half of the year in accordance with fair value measurement under IFRS and led to an increase in property, plant and equipment of CHF 56 million. We have consistently pursued the asset-light strategy and will continue to do so in the future. In the second half of the year, we also made good progress in increasing the equity ratio, primarily through improved profitability and a reduction in the balance sheet total. Liabilities for services decreased compared to the previous year. Short-term liabilities decreased, mainly due to the repayment of the convertible bond on the 30th of June 2022. Compared to the previous period, we have achieved an overall reduction in financial liabilities. Implenia strengthened its equity to approximately CHF 482.7 million, an increase of around 40%. The equity ratio was thus increased to 17.5%. As can be clearly seen here, the improved net profit was the main contributor to the strengthening of shareholders' equity to CHF 482.7 million. With the increase in shareholders' equity of around CHF 137 million, we exceeded the target of at least CHF 80 million that we had set ourselves for the year as a whole. The equity ratio of 17.5% reflects the book value of the real estate portfolio in our balance sheet. The difference between the book value and current market value would already result in an equity ratio of well over 20%. The improvements in the operating business are reflected in the balance sheet structure and Implenia is therefore on course to increase the equity ratio to over 20% in the short term and on a sustainable basis. With the improvement of the operating business and as well as the successful management of the net working capital, we were able to increase the free cash flow to a high level of CHF 124 million. The redemption of the convertible bond as at 30th of June 2022 was reflected in the positive cash flow from investing activities and the negative cash flow from financing activities. The net cash position, excluding lease liabilities, improved to CHF 120.3 million. We are also aiming for a sustained positive development of the free cash flow in the future. Due to the improvement in equity and free cash flow, the Board of Directors recommends resuming dividend payments in order to allow Implenia's shareholders to participate in the company's success. The Board of Directors will therefore propose to the Annual General Meeting on the 28th of March that a dividend of [ CHF 0.40 ] per share be paid. The Board of Directors expect Implenia to be able to continue paying dividends in the future. I will now turn to guidance. In 2023, we expect EBIT to be around CHF 120 million, thanks to a strong operational activity in all divisions. As we already explained at the Capital Market Day, we expect the EBIT contribution of the Real Estate division to decline, particularly in the first half of the year. In the short to medium term, Implenia still expects an EBIT margin of around 3.5%. In the medium to long term, Implenia is still aiming for an EBIT margin of over 4.5%. By 2023, the group expects to have an equity ratio of over 20%. And in the medium term, the aim is to achieve an equity ratio of 25%. I would like to thank you for your attention and hand over to Andre for the market outlook.

[Interpreted] Thank you, Stefan. The current macroeconomic environment remains challenging. It is marked by economic uncertainty, rising interest rates and inflation. These external influencing factors are also decisive for our industry. Thanks for central purchasing units, the business units and the back-to-back contractual causes, it has been possible to mitigate the most important effects and to always guarantee supply. We will continue to do our utmost to ensure that this remains the case in the future. The most recent forecast for our markets remain positive, even though overall growth has slowed down somewhat. The mega trends remain promising and confirm the market growth that is important to us. The strong demand for housing in urban areas and the necessary investments in mobility and infrastructure offer attractive opportunities. Thanks to our project portfolio and know-how, we are active in these markets and are strategically well positioned to continue to benefit from the megatrends. This will make Implenia more robust and resilient to fluctuations in economic development. There will be a change in our Board of Directors. Laurent Vulliet will not stand for reelection at the General Meeting on the 28th of March. He has been a member of the Board of Directors and the Nomination and Compensation Committee since 2016. Implenia would like to thank him warmly for his long-standing contribution. Raymond Cron will be proposed to the General Meeting as a new member of the Board of Directors. With his experience, he will bring extensive industry expertise and management skills to the Board of Directors. The clear improvement in the annual results in a difficult market environment proves that Implenia is on the right track. Once the transformation is complete, our business will be well positioned, both strategically and operationally for sustained success. Implenia will continue to increase its profitability. Through organic and inorganic growth, we will develop high-margin business areas. We will do this by focusing on sector specialization and integration along the entire value chain. Thank you very much for your attention. I would now like to hand over to Silvan for the Q&A session. Silvan, the floor is yours.

[Interpreted] Yes. Thank you very much, Andre. Thank you, Stefan. Before we answer your questions, a brief reminder about our Annual General Meeting on 28th of March and the presentation of our half year results on the 16th of August. Should you have any questions following our event, please do not hesitate to contact us through the usual contacts. So we are now looking forward to answering the first question first here in the room. And I would like to ask Andre and Stefan to come here on the stage and join me. First, we will answer the question in the room and then we will have a look at the chat to see what questions you may have posed to be able to answer them. So to whom may I give the microphone first?

[Interpreted] Holger Frisch of the Zurcher Kantonalbank. I have 3 questions regarding the guidance. The CHF 120 million that you mentioned for 2023 and also the -- what is expected from Buildings in 2023. Those would be my questions. So where are the improvements for 2023 that need to be delivered or performed by the other divisions? And then regarding the dividends, also on the background that there will be a decline in 2023 versus 2022? What would be the basis for this that could sustain your statement and also with the liabilities? So in the past, we declared in a very detailed manner. We went to CHF 204 million. And these are no longer declared this year. Could you tell me what the amount is this year and why they have not been disclosed this year?

[Interpreted] Yes. Thank you very much. So I will answer questions 1 and 2 and Stefan can number 3. So it's not division Buildings that is going to be [ half ] but Real Estate. That is clear. But we said that at least CHF 40 million is what we want to achieve. And so all divisions will continue to increase with profitability. So this is valid for all 4 divisions, except for the Real Estate because of this extraordinary sale of the development projects during the first half year, which have been reduced. So the others -- the other divisions will have to perform more strongly or deliver more. The dividend of 0.4%, that is the basis. So we want to resume this. We are being rather cautious and we plan in the future to continue to pay these dividends as Stefan Baumgartner has mentioned. And of course, we also expect an increase. And the third question is to you.

[Interpreted] Yes, regarding the eventual liabilities. So we try to issue this report in a more, let's say, reader-friendly menu. So that is the reason why it's not so detailed, it's more condensed. But to answer your question, yes, there has been a reduction of decline. That is correct, as you mentioned.

[Interpreted] Any more questions?

[Interpreted] Yes, from the NZZ newspaper in Zurich. I have a question regarding urbanization and your market opportunities or chances, perhaps you can tell us something about this? Do you believe this 10 million population in Switzerland, I mean you're talking about Basel with a very huge project in Pratteln, if I heard you correctly. So you -- the cities continue to grow and to expand into -- out into the rural areas. And also regarding Germany, how do you estimate your market chances and opportunities? I mean you also have very ambitious goals for Germany. How do you conceive everything? What are the opportunities and also threats or risks, especially in Germany, especially for you as a, let's say, Swiss company? And perhaps last but not least, another question, you haven't mentioned this, but the lack of experts and specialists that exist everyone, and there are even people who go -- or retired at the age of 60 in the construction sector. Do you -- are you still able to find enough people, enough employees?

[Interpreted] Well, I'll begin with the first question. So I mentioned it and showed it on the megatrends slide. We expect the population to increase in Switzerland, whether that will be 10 million, well, I'm probably the wrong person to answer this question. But we do presume that, that is going to happen. And the urbanization is already taking place not only in Switzerland, but also in Germany. And so these buildings, it means that we have to construct skyscrapers, practically put add-on some force and also in the vertical position. So we were more in the rural areas before, like maybe 56 years and now we are in the cities. Why do we want to be good in Switzerland? Well, this because we are the leaders in Civil Engineering and also Building, but also in Germany, with Building thanks to them, we are really present on the German market, and we have a very good footprint. But there, we also focus on greater projects, whether they are in the sector of Civil Engineering or in the Building Technology. Also in Real Estate, so we have already taken the first steps in that area, but we always do it based on the know-how that we have at the local level. And so we are quite optimistic as far as the market goes there. Where we are active or we are going to be active. That is where we will be able to expand. And so we are quite optimistic. Let's say there where we are working on projects outside of Switzerland and Germany, where we are especially active in the tunneling building. So in the Civil Engineering, we especially construct tunnels, there are not that many people present. You have the tunnel boring machine and also the specialists, but we don't really have a great number of employees are there. So we are able to master that situation. And we are one of the absolute leaders in this sector. And people come to us not only because we're a very good company, but because we have wonderful projects, perhaps you heard about it. We are active with all 4 Alpine crossings as a company and we are the sole company to do so. And that incites a lot of experts to come and see us because they know that they will be facing a challenging project together with us. And whereas in Building Technology, we work with subcontractors, we have lots of planners, architects, engineers who like to come to us because we have very challenging projects, very interesting projects. And the blue collars, those who work on the construction site where we just recruit them. So we are able to use the subcontractors in order to, let's say, compensate for the lack. So yes, the lack of experts and specialists is still a challenge. It's still the #1 priority. But as an employer of choice, perhaps we are not so much impacted by this than other companies are. And with these white colors, these very well skilled engineers. We have a great number of those, so we don't need to worry about that.

[Interpreted] To whom may I hand over the microphone for further questions? Well, it seems we don't have any questions here in the room. Well, I have further questions then from the chat. Martin Husler from the Zurcher Kantonalbank would like to know regarding Real Estate, what share in 2023 can be service revenues, so the recurring benefits. What do they make up?

[Interpreted] Well, as we said before that we endeavor to have half as recurring service revenues. We are already in a 2-digit million amount for the income at Ina Invest and we also want to expand Ina Invest, but we always want -- and we also want to expand the other services. So we are continuing to endeavor that. So in 2023, we will not have achieved half not quite half.

[Interpreted] And then Martin Husler has a second question also from the Zurcher Kantonalbank. How do you estimate the inflation on construction costs, especially for Implenia, the real estate market? And can this and always -- what margin do you plan for the Building and Civil Engineering specifically?

[Interpreted] So we saw that there was an increase of the high dimensions, but actually, there have been adjustments made not exactly at the same level as the previous one, but the salary costs have not had their impact. There are several reasons. So this is the first one being, as I mentioned before, in the tunnel sector, we don't have that many employees on site. So it's not that relevant and especially it's also distributed over all of Europe. And in the building sector, we work with subcontractors and we have contracts with them, and we have a lot of back-to-back contracts, as mentioned before. And so we can go through or carry through the negotiation, not only with the clients, but also with the subcontractors. So like I said, the environment remains challenging, but I believe that we have a very good setup to be able to face these challenges and to master the situation.

[Interpreted] Thank you very much. And then the third question from Martin Husler. How do you estimate the increasing interest environment on the development of the Swiss real estate market? Do you see it as a gloomy or do you think your perspectives for real estate are gloomy or how do you see the situation?

[Interpreted] I think there are challenges to face. And I think we need to make a difference. So where do we have these real estate of this property. And it's interesting to see that for certain locations in the urban areas, we have very attractive geographical sites and -- and of course, there continues to be an increase in real estate property and in other regions there is a decline. So it really depends where the portfolio is located. Regarding the construction investments, I also believe that here, there are differences, for example, whether it's a residential house or duplex houses that are not constructed in urban areas, perhaps that will decline. But I believe that situation is the same in Switzerland as in Germany. There has been a strong decline over the past months in Germany. But we think that in the second half year and in 2024, there will be an increase. So the advantage that we have is we have a full backlog order, so we have already 2023 guaranteed for us.

[Interpreted] And then a question in English from the chat from Marc Saint John Webb from Quaero Capital. Congratulations for the strong results. Could you give us more granularity on your forecasted EBIT margin of above 4.5%? Where are the major improvements coming from? What margins do you plan for Buildings and Civil Engineering specifically?

[Interpreted] Do we answer in English or in German? We'll answer in English? One is certainly continuous improvement, operating improvement for each division. That's the major movement. Then it's operational excellence on all dimensions. So we want to become operationally more efficient using Lean, using digitalization, which the industry is still lagging a bit behind other industries. So in other words, there are huge opportunities. Thirdly, I mentioned the expansion along the value chain. So we're looking into areas with higher margin business, which will be organically and inorganically grown. So these are the major elements of the margin growth?

[Interpreted] Thank you very much. We still have the possibility for questions here in the room. So if you wish to have a question, just simply raise your hand. There is one, a person here in the back of the room.

[Interpreted] [indiscernible] Finance and Economics. What is the greatest risk that you see in the years to come? Could it be the complexity of the projects that perhaps could lead to delays or difficulties? Or if I come back to this lack of employees, your subcontractors perhaps need to contract or to, let's say, recruit people and they don't find -- because of the lack of people, they don't find skilled works and facing difficulties.

[Interpreted] These are very good indications, great complex projects need to be well managed. So it means we need the best of the best, and we do have the best. And we only attack or let's say, projects that are great if we have the necessary experience, one of, for example, this health care project and also laboratory projects. It's something very complex. I know it from my previous role, where I used to work, and you really need to know what you're talking about. And so we waited to buy [indiscernible] to our top specialists here in Switzerland and this proved to be the good decision that we took. So management assurance is a top priority of our company. We take our things seriously and this process is continuously improved, although the industry standards as the standards continue to increase as well. Regarding the lack of, let's say, specialists, well, I think that as an industry, we need to become more self-confident. We don't only have the hard-working employees. We also have very highly skilled and trained engineers, architects and who have done the masters having even studied 2 or 3 various majors. And so you can see here in the environment, we have a very innovative environment and what the majority of our people do is very challenging and highly -- of high complexity. And so I presume that we will have more people coming to us. And you are correct that with the subcontractors, you have to be very selective when you work with them to make sure that we don't have so-called third class workers on the sites. So that will be a challenge. But it's always much simpler, let's say, if you are an attractive employer or an employer of choice and you have very good personnel that you can lead in a very good manner. So the challenge is perhaps weaker than for other companies. And for subcontractors who have the possibility of working on one great project or, let's say, 10 smaller projects with several other companies, they'll probably come to us for one project because it's more satisfying. And so we have a certain advantage versus the competition, but we cannot underestimate the situation. We will not underestimate the situation.

[Interpreted] Thank you very much. Any further questions? [ Johannes ]?

[Interpreted] [indiscernible] You said that you wanted inorganic growth. So how many objectives do you have for the current year?

[Interpreted] Well, we don't have goals for any takeovers. I think that would be wrong because we would hurt those goals instead of doing something or investing in something sensible reasonable. And so if we find something, it has to be adequate. So it will have to be on the Swiss or the German territory. It also has to guarantee certain expansion of margin and it has to be along the value chain. And it has adhere also relate then to our core business. Otherwise, we wouldn't do it. But there are no concrete goals for now. And if we do that, we would do it very selectively.

[Interpreted] How many takeovers in the past have contributed to your growth?

[Interpreted] Well, we have practically no takeovers or acquisitions. We sold in a very selective manner for, let's say, sectors that we deem would not be profitable for the future. Did not relate to our core business anymore. [indiscernible] was one, for example, and that worked very well, by the way. It was more like a training instrument, so to say.

[Interpreted] All right. [ Dominic ], next question.

[Interpreted] Yes. Perhaps another question, if you permit me to pose one. The Swiss construction market is very strongly fragmented. There are a lot of companies and a lot of Swiss companies, interesting for a country like ours that is oriented globally. So it seems to be somewhat impacted the market, but especially with Civil Engineering and Building Technology. And what do you expect? Is that going to remain the way it is? Or as for many other industries, do you believe that there will be a consolidation that will happen?

[Interpreted] That is also a very good and important question for our strategic positioning in the future. Let's say that the construction industry is a very local thing. I don't know any other industry that is only local. The more complex project and the more specialized project, these, let's say, border limitations no longer play a role. On the contrary, we are especially requested or required for tunnel companies. They are always interested in working together with Implenia because we know our business. This also applies to hospitals. You can see these backlogs for hospitals, these order to hospitals that are being submitted to us. And there are other areas where we also had greater revenue. And so these borders play less and less a rule, but we will be very prudent as we move on. And I presume that for the greater and complex projects we -- there will be a consolidation that will take place and also certain internal rationalization. Of course, for the local activities, there are probably other companies who are better for that. For example, in the [indiscernible] for a residential house, where we are probably not the partner to do that. I believe there are other companies who are much better at that work for that activity. So I think there will be a division between the smaller local companies who can position themselves for local projects. And we, Implenia who are more specialized on very complex and greater projects. So there will be a consolidation. But I think the smaller companies will have to continue to exist at the local level in any case.

[Interpreted] Thank you. Christian?

[Interpreted] Christian Arnold from Stifel. Also, on the long term at the moment, where there are a lot of political discussions regarding renewable energies. So in the mid and long-term, there are more and more solar or photovoltaic parts that should be built and also dams that are being built, et cetera. Do you have the competencies for such projects? Is it something that one needs to focus on and to strengthen its competencies?

[Interpreted] Well, we want that. Yes, for example, we are building the dam at [indiscernible] which is a very good experience, a very interesting project for us. And so we are already talking about the elevation of that. As for the windmills, I'd say, we have -- there are a lot of parameters to take into consideration and also pretension voltaic -- voltage. And also the foundation is also very interesting and we're talking about onshore and offshore projects here. So there are a lot of very interesting opportunities that present themselves. We'll have to look at them closer more in detail and we will only participate if we do have the know-how and we only participate where we have the experience and the know-how and the competencies. But yes, that is for sure, let's say, et cetera, that we want to, let's say, penetrate and especially in the infrastructure for Civil Engineering.

[Interpreted] We have another question here in the room or who has another question? Yes, [ Johannes ], please.

[Interpreted] The entire word talked about supply chain problems last year. How much growth did it cost you for not being able to complete certain constructions, certain building projects?

[Interpreted] I think it was a negligent number. So we were able to guarantee the supply chain. I always mentioned it in my explanations. We did not have any greater problems. And we were always able let's say, to deviate or to circumvent this difficulty because we had a central -- a centrally managed purchases who is close -- who works very closely with the operational units. And so we were very able to have or to establish alternative delivery methods. So our business did not suffer from this or let's say that the number was quite negligible. And we presume that the situation will remain as it is.

[Interpreted] Martin Husler from the Zurcher Kantonalbank. So where do you see the biggest risk for guidance in 2023?

[Interpreted] Well, the backlog order is very well. It's full for all divisions. So I don't see any risks or any threats here. I don't see any risks or threats for the existing projects. Of course, projects always bear a certain risk and the assurance process has to intervene, not only in terms of selection, but also for the execution and during the tender phase. But I think the greatest risks are more -- any macroeconomic area. So for example, if the supply chain should for one reason or another then be interrupted, I think that would pose a great challenge. Do you have something you would like to add?

[Interpreted] No, we have very, let's say, negligible risk. So it's actually things look quite positive for guidance in 2023. But as we said before, we have to continue to lead the projects in a very good manner. So the assurance project covers the entire project phase from the beginning till the end. So we do that with 3 areas. So we've got organization that is divisionalized and that has shown or proven what they are able to do. And we can rely on them. The second thing are the processes that have been brought to the highest level and also continue to be improved and then there's also the point of culture. That's the third one. So you need a transparent culture. You also have to disclose all errors and risks in a very transparent manner to the management team and also everything has to be addressed at the management level and also in the local teams. And I think the company has made significant progress in all 3 areas.

[Interpreted] Another question then from stream, Marc Saint John Webb. Will you consider delivering hospitals and laboratories outside Switzerland and Germany, if there is a real demand?

[Interpreted] We currently concentrate on the existing projects, which are interesting and demanding, and we want to deliver them in the highest possible standard. What comes after we will see. But this is not a priority for 2023 and maybe not even for 2024.

Thank you very much. So there's still a possibility to pose a question here in the room. Next person.

[Interpreted] Perhaps a question regarding the order backlog with over CHF 7 billion and which guarantees group. Where is the natural, let's say, limit for organizations such as yours? Are you going to know further growth? Or is this, let's say, the limit that company, the size of yours could actually reach.

[Interpreted] That's a very interesting question. So the order backlog must increase, must grow even with the same turnover, and that has to do with the fact that we are endeavoring or we are moving on to hire more complex projects and an expansion for our tunnel project will last 8 to 12 years. But even, let's say, in the Building Technology such as the hospital, Cantonal hospital in Aarau will not be done in 1 year, but we'll use -- we'll go last over a period of years. And so the order backlog is not actually that relevant then for the, let's say, the size of the company. We were only acquired there where our crew can actually work. But if you do acquire such great project, you always have the top talent that you can get then from other companies and many of those top talents go to the projects. And then they see a company that seems very attractive. That's when they come to us. So we presume that we do not have any goals for the order backlog or for the turnover, we are focusing on profitability. And if the order backlog grows, well, it does so. And with the value assurance process, it will continue to grow. And if it declines, well, we will not -- it will not be a reason not to become nervous or to worry. It will continue then to grow in an organic matter together with the company without any, let's say, additional recruitment of personnel.

[Interpreted] Thank you very much. Any further questions here in the room or in the chat? Well, there are no further questions in the chat. What about here in the room? May I hand over the microphone to anyone here in the room? So it seems that it's not the case. So I would like to conclude our Q&A. And I would like to hand over to Andre for the conclusion.

[Interpreted] Thank you, Silvan. Thank you, Stefan. Thank you to all of you. So I hope that we were able to answer all of your questions. Thank you very much for being here. I wish you a lovely day and good-bye. [Portions of this transcript that are marked [Interpreted] were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]