Inderes Oyj (INDERES) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning dear Inderes community members, fellow investors, media representatives and other interested parties. Welcome to the first ever Capital Markets Day by Inderes. We are thoroughly excited to present to you the next phase of Inderes as described in more detail by my visionary colleagues presenting here today. My name is Eero Alasuutari, and I will humbly serve as your host for today's event. As we saw and heard on the intro video explaining the history of Inderes in a nutshell, we truly have arrived in the next chapter in our story. This chapter takes place not only here in Finland, but in the Nordics. Although our mission to democratize information by connecting investors and companies is not quite complete in Finland yet, it has reached a point where we turn our heads to the west. And in that spirit, we are presenting to a live audience, not just here in Helsinki, but in Stockholm, Sweden as well. Before we jump on to the agenda, I'd like to remind you that you can comment and ask questions to our presenters using the viewing page chat functionality. Our live audience in Helsinki and in Stockholm can ask questions using the QR code, you should find on a print out close to you. We will take up your questions in the Q&A session after all the presentations. But now let's get this show going. Our first speaker is the CEO and Co-Founder of Inderes Mikael Rautanen. Welcome, Mikael.

Thank you, Eero. So in the beginning, there was just passion, no business model and no strategy. Today, I'm happy that we still have the passion and we also have a solid business model, and we have a solid strategy to present today. The core of Inderes remains the same. Our role in the society. We are here to democratize investor information, taking this industry serving the 1%, deserving the 100%. In this strategy period, we have defined it as democratizing Nordic investor information to reflect our new focus. How we do it is by connecting investors and listed companies. In the strategy, we are not reinventing the wheel. We are using the same basic model that we have proven to be working and successful, demonstrated network effects in the business. So the Inderes flywheel. More listed companies join the ecosystem, the better services we can provide for our investor community. And the more investors join our ecosystem, the better services we can provide for the listed companies. This is the flywheel effect of Inderes. The main point of this and main message of this new strategy is that when we go to the selected new countries, we aim to build the full flywheel to all new markets. We will not be happy just gaining a big Investor Relations events or Investor Relations software business in a new market. We plan to build the full flywheel all the services for listed companies, our digital platform and the investor community. That's the long-term ambition. The key trend driving our business is a timeless trend. It's impossible for me to imagine future investors coming to say, well, I just wish companies would not be that transparent and open about their operations. It's inevitable that you, investors, you demand more and more transparency from the listed companies and our products and services are built to right on that trend and that demand. So that's the timeless trend feeding our growth. Now we are entering the third phase of Inderes. The first one was ramping up the equity research business and Inderes platform in Finland. After that, we started to diversify with our own product development and one very good acquisition so that our product portfolio now covers the basics and the essentials of Investor Relations. We've been growing successfully. And now the third phase that we're entering into after our IPO and the investments we've made is geographical expansion in Nordics. Strategy is all about choices. We have selected 4 main product areas where we plan to put most of our limited resources and focus. These products, we believe that by focusing on these, we can create the most value for our employees, community, customers and shareholders. So equity research, over 2/3 of Finnish companies as clients. Investor Relations events over 300 clients, very strong market position already to start with. AGM in a couple of years going from 0 to over 50% market share. Investor Relations software, that's where we aim to get more scalable growth, and that business is still on a start-up phase. The Inderes formula and the recipes that our products combine the deep domain expertise in Investor Relations, and investing our own digital platforms and the investor community, the audience. In addition to these 4 product choices, of course, we continue to innovate and develop completely new concepts together with investors and the listed companies. So 4 product areas and 3 geographical focused markets. The main markets, Sweden will be obviously the most significant pro driver in our strategy period, 23% to 27%. That's where most of our focus goes. In Finland, I want to emphasize that we still do have quite a lot of room to grow. Within the existing client base because many of those clients are only buying 1 or 2 of our services that we have. And obviously, we will continue to actively develop the Finnish IPO ecosystem to better serve and encourage the entrepreneur couple. In Denmark, we operate together with our strategic partner, HC Anderson Capital, this is an efficient way for us to start building a position in the Denmark market. Looking at these 4 product choices and 3 country choices in a matrix, you can see that we are building a solid balance between products that are in a mature growth, high profitability stage and products that are in a start-up or scale-up phase. This should enable us to do profitable growth in short term, in medium term and build basis for the long term as well. We are seeking the right balance, and I think we've got it quite well. From the Finland side of this graph, you can see that once we get the Inderes flywheel spinning, it's pretty powerful. It usually reach quite high penetration within the market. We have estimated that the market potential of Inderes in Finland is around EUR 20 million with the existing number of listed companies. Looking at Nordics and our new target markets, we are repositioning ourselves to be the small challenger who is again redefining the industry. We are estimating that the addressable market in Nordics is over EUR 120 million within the product choices we've made. What is specific for Inderes is that we like to target very small niches in the markets and do them in a really good way. But my friends, the journey ahead to reach Nordic vision. We're quite honest to ourselves that it will not be an easy ride. There will be a lot of obstacles in front of us. We have spent a lot of time in trying to identify the biggest obstacles on our way. And then we have defined 3 key strategic themes to overcome those obstacles. Productization and sales, Sweden and international index. These themes will next be converted into strategic actions that we will start implementing in a disciplined way. Our financial targets remain unchanged. So we aim to reach 30% to 50% combination of revenue growth and EBITDA margin, meaning that if we have slower growth, we aim for higher profitability. Our 3 infinite targets obviously remain unchanged. We believe that if we stick to those targets, and that is not easy, but if we stick to them, in the long run, the financial results will follow. So that's, in a nutshell, the strategy update we released with the CMD. And with that, we are expecting to earn 12 points from both Sweden and Denmark during the strategy period. Thank you.

Thank you, Mikael. Next up, we will dive deep into our product portfolio with our technology business lead, Janne Vainionpaa and his very own the product show. [Presentation]

So hello, everyone. Nice to see you, smart looking crowd as expected. Despite a bit catch in intro, aim to keep this more informative than entertaining, so don't worry. And as of our business targets, they are still rather conventional. We aim to maintain profitable growth in the Finnish market and aim to keep growing into new markets, Finland and Sweden, Sweden and Denmark. And in this growth, our transition from manpower fueled expert organization to more of a product organization is one of the key elements. When I joined the [ Flik, ] the company, we have the Flik acquisition, years ago. Interest was basically an equity research company, building already then a large and active investor community. With Flik, the Events business arrived and also a team of developers working on the virtual events platform, which now also serves as a backbone for the AGM product. Since then, we have also built our software capabilities and launched a number of products in area of Investor Relations. So today, we are a company with strong position in commissioned equity research market. By the way, we have a wrong slide. Can we go one back? And also in the IR events business as well as the AGMs, as Mikael mentioned, and also have a solid offering in area of software products for listed company IROs. So with that, we have incorporated scalability into our business and improved our capabilities to expand into new countries. So one of the main themes in our strategy, sales and productization revolves around how we can replicate the good things accomplished in the Finnish market in other Nordic countries. In one sentence, one could say that we are focusing on making our products easier to purchase, easier to deliver and to sell. So looking at Investor Relations from our clients' perspective, there is always 2 dimensions: quality and reach. Even high-quality IR content doesn't make a different difference if it doesn't reach the right audience. In Finland, with the Finnish in investor community, we are in a unique position to offer Finnish listed companies complete set of products and services for their Investor Relations. Ability to offer this high-volume investor reach built in, in our products makes our product offering very compelling in the Finnish market. And in Sweden and Denmark, we have started to build the community and the distribution network. And we don't see any reason why our end-to-end IR product portfolio wouldn't be interesting for listed companies in these markets, especially for small and meat cap companies, I would claim that our suite of products offer a stellar product price to value ratio. If the company is looking for relevant features for a reasonable price, ease of use and automation of routine tasks, our R&D and service approach is excellent match, also in Sweden and Denmark. Finally, we are very investor-centric, unlike many of our competitors. Our core is in investor comps, and we have been able to recruit people with very high level of competence in this domain. In the events business, this makes us a holistic partner that can bring much more to the table than just good production capabilities or nice studios. And in software products, this enables us building stuff that are to the point offering automation and comfort where it's needed the most. With that, I think we are well set and excited to continue our expansion in the Nordic market. Now let's welcome our first guest, the one and only [Sauli biller]. Welcome, [Sauli].

Thank you.

So not everyone knows that name Inderes actually comes from independent equity research. Can you explain briefly what this service entails?

Well, I mean, the equity research, it's the core, what we actually do. It's not like a side business for us or a way to boost our investment banking or anything like that. It's just the core we do. And we are in the game where the investors trust is everything. If you don't have it, you get nothing basically. Sometimes in order to earn that, it means that you leave money on the table. That's the way it goes, if you want to be independent in this business.

Got you. You've been very successful in Finland with the 140-plus paying clients. What's your explanation for this success? Where does the client value come from?

If you start from the investors, what they actually expect from us. There is basically 2 things. First, they want independent high-quality content. And here, by the way, the content means a lot more than just the PDF reports. That's one. And then secondly, you need to be active since obviously the investors want to know what is going on in the market and with the companies, companies they are interested in. So if you're succeed in those, then you actually reach Kind of big audience through our own platform since well, it's a technologically good, and it's also free and open for everyone. It's not just for institution or anything like that. So that's very simple. If you jump on the corporate side, on the commission research clients, what do they expect from us? You can see that they actually expect pretty much the same things. So they also expect high-quality content. They also as on to be active is because when we are actively reserve the investors and they know what is going on. And finally, they want to reach investors through us. there is not really much of a value in the content if nobody consumes it right. So but -- so it's basically simple if we succeed in high-quality content, we earn investors trust through that. Then we provide major value for our commissions clients through our distribution power. That's the recipe we have been more or less doing for the past decade in Finland.

Yes. The Swedish market is obviously interesting with over 1,000 listed companies. However, given that we are still in early phases of the community building, why would a Swedish company be interested in buying equity reasons from us.

Yes, we have a clear chicken ex problem in Sweden since -- you -- in order to attract investors, you need content, and then again, to attract come value for the companies, you need investors. It's very simple. If you look at the content side first, I mean, -- we -- obviously, we are doing several things to speed up the local contact production. We are we are putting a lot more effort on the research sales. We will be ramping up several interesting large companies during H2 to provide local content. Then I also want to emphasize that our content pool already is actually a massive one. We are a market leader in the webcast in the Swedish market, through financial hearings, of course. So there is a time so very interesting content already. We are the only player who can offer for the Swedish investors basically information about all of the Swedish listed companies at free of charge, which is a kind of good deal. And then drawing in the [indiscernible] material from Denmark. Our material pool is actually pretty good already, and we need to utilize it much better in the future. At the same time, we need to ramp up also the local material at a clearly faster pace during the past 12 months. Then if you look at the distribution side on the company level, what -- so basically, what we can offer for companies now is well unbeatable distribution to Finland to our very strong market position here. Then, of course, we are ramping our platform in Sweden all the time with the content pieces and the resources I just mentioned. And of course, our friends in Denmark are also ramping up the [DK platform]. So our grand goal is to build a nordic distribution capability. So yes, that's it. So basically, since we don't know, which comes first, the chicken or egg. So we plan to do both to ensure that we succeed in this.

Sounds good. finally, name one key obstacle for us in the Swedish market.

This is easy -- finding the right people. This is a people business. That's it.

All right. Thank you, [Sauli]. Thank you. Next up, we have you [Joan]. All right. Welcome you -- you are the product owner for -- interest AGM services. Can you walk us through what is this service all about?

Absolutely. So we are the one-stop shop that helps the company's arrange AGM whatever model you want to use, because there's many ways to do AGM [indiscernible] you can do it in a hybrid way or you can do a classic AGM where everyone comes on site and you take and you just provision to speak. And you can see that we help actually with a lot of things. For example, also with the registration, the notifications you know when to go where and you know the app for voting. If you come online, you had a webcast platform where you can go and speak and do everything you need for AGM. So you have all the permissions online and on site. So we have more cool stuff Okay, you can see if you come to AGM as a shareholder. The first thing what you realize is that you have to get your voting tickets will help you with them, of course, show you how they work. we have our crew there helping you out with the molten tickets and showing you the place that where to go, where is the AGM. And of course, the main stage, you can see here that -- you go there, we go -- we have the design for you. We help the Chairman. We do everything you need at the AGM on site.

So basically, we are a one-stop shop for.

It is a very comprehensive way how to do AGM like also the legal knowledge, that's very likely important. We have like the very few like providers in the town that know how the legal services work here.

Yes. Yes. Other than the one stop shop, why do customers buy from us? You have gained already 120 companies. So why is it?

Yes. The key things are that we can combine the knowledge of doing a hybrid production like this place, as you can see now, we are the very few who can combine this with the AGM legal knowledge and the AGM technology. Like combining these 2 factors or these 3 factors or 4 factors, we actually like -- we can do it so comprehensively as a one-stop shop. That we minimize the complexity of AGMs because AGM is actually very complex like services. But we combine all the knowledge, though, it's like it makes your life so easy.

Got you. So you have gained a significant market share here in Finland as set, and now you're planning for Sweden and Denmark. Is there any particular sweet spot? And how do you plan to proceed in those markets?

Yes, definitely. The sweet spot are companies who have a complex AGM. Basically, they are mid-caps and large caps. They need a venue, they need help with the voting. They need registration help. They need a lot of things from us. And that's a sweet spot for us, where you need help and you have a lot of complex, and we're happy out with that.

Yes. So mid-cap, large cap.

Yes. Those are the companies we focus in the Nordics as well in Sweden and the market. And we will be focusing in pilot runs. We're going to test out things there. So as an investor, look at those, how many pilots are we going to get in the Nordics for the following autumn and spring?

Yes, yes. So could you name one critical factor where we need to succeed in order to.

Yes, definitely, stability. Everything in AGM comes to scalability. It's not a SaaS service or anything. It's a combination of software, legal knowledge and a crew that knows how AGM works. So the key factor is that we can need to learn how to scale it. That's why we need to do the pilots in Sweden and Denmark. So we know how the market works, what the companies are like expecting from us. So we know how to scale the crew up, so we can serve even more companies in the Nordics and not only in Finland.

Got you. That's all. Thank you, [Joan]. Keep up with the good work. And next, we have [indiscernible] . So talking about IR events here. As you explained, we are heavily involved in not just the virtual event setup, but holistically in the -- from the event planning to execution. Can you briefly explain what it's containing our service?

That's a big question, actually. As you said, it's all about the service to the client. And we help our customers arrange any IR events. Is it AGM, CMDs, quarterly reports, whatever it is. We help them get the message through to in high quality to the right audience, and we help them to build brand awareness and loyalty within the public. And it doesn't matter if it's like a 200 or a [200,000] case kind of -- it's just -- it's the same thing we do. We advise, we coach, we help them get the message to the right people. that's what we do. I could give a few examples. It's easier to let you know what we do. This is from CapMan's Capital Markets Day last year. we create the key visuals and from that, we create the whole show, both online and on site, just like we do here today as well. Another example, Tietoevry's Capital Markets Day, that was also last year. And this was a collaboration with Stockholm and Helsinki offices, really nice event.

Yes. We are not the only event agency in town, right? So how do we differentiate?

There's been a few factors here said earlier, and one is kind of the one-stop shop that you also mentioned. We are a digital powerhouse. We have all the particles and all the elements you need to create a great event. We are all in one holistic service, of course. We own the technology, and now I'm not only talking about the AGM technology. We also have the video [sync] platform that your team develops. It's perfect for any company. We have the web that you're going to hear more about today as well from [Miikka]. We know the IRC. We have the advisory experts. We have the consultants, the analysts. We have the forum and we have the channels. And from the forum and channels, we get feedback and data that we can use to help the client do better events and reach the audience better. And then, of course, the distribution and these lovely studios that we have here in Helsinki and in Stockholm in key locations in high quality.

So we already have a very strong foothold in the Finnish IR events market. Is there any room to grow?

That's a tough question. We have a solid customer base, of course, over 300 companies in the Nordics. And in Finland, where I work the most, we cover a whole lot of the Finnish listed companies. It's almost like 90% of the active listed companies. But there's still a lot of room to grow. There's a lot of smaller listed companies that are not so active at the moment. So we're developing better and more efficient and cost-efficient ways -- automated ways for them to communicate better to give them a chance to also be heard. And of course, we're developing new products and services for the financial sector because we see that they also have a really great value to bring to the investor community. And then last but not least, the AGM and Capital Markets Day event business. We had a really good last 12 months doing large events for our customers. So we see that now we have a great opportunity to grow within the large event business. And then, of course, there's the Nordic market. That's a huge potential. That's the big opportunity. But I would like to finish with some feedback from our clients. I'll just leave this slide here. I think we always get feedback from the clients like Star ratings from 1 to 10. And from the last 12 months, our feedback is 9.1 on this scale. So I want to thank all the clients for the opportunity and the possibility to serve you and make this product function.

Great. Thank you, Jenny. And last but not least, we have [indiscernible] telling about the IR software. So [indiscernible] tell me what is our approach and angle to the IR software market in general?

Yes. So we have built our portfolio during the past 2 years or so, and now we have all mandatory IR software in place. So that means that we have IR websites. We have tools for the website. We have news distribution system, and then we have to do it yourself streaming solution. And how our products look in practice? So the IR website, we deliver as a full service or do-it-yourself version. Then this IR website, tools, they include ownership data, management trading, share graphs, analyst estimates and reports, investor sentiment to mention a few. And then the latest addition to our portfolio is the new distribution system, which we launched early this year. And actually, we are currently onboarding the first Finnish clients to the system. And then finally, we have the Inderes live, so the do-it-yourself streaming system.

There is obviously a lot of competition also in the software market. How do we differentiate from the competition?

Yes, that's a good question. So first of all, we have the Inderes investor community, so we can reach a very relevant audience. And that audience also provides us with very valuable feedback and data, which we can utilize, for example, in our development work.

Well, basically, the same question I asked from Sauli since we are still in the building phase of the Swedish and Danish community, how does that affecting our competitiveness in these markets?

Yes. So we are not there yet in Sweden. But nevertheless, our products, they are very good as a stand-alone products. So -- and now that we are offering all these different systems and solutions, we can build integrations between the systems and increased automation. And at the end of the day, that is the life of an IR professional.

Yes. So talking about money a little bit to what kind of growth targets do we have for coming years?

We have seen a pretty good development in Finland, and we see no reason why we wouldn't see a similar development in Sweden going forward. But we are in very early phases. So we have just onboarded the first client in Sweden. So it's too early to say anything exact, but fortunately, we have a very good team in place, and I'm very confident that we will get there in Sweden as well.

Yes, me too. All right. Thank you, [indiscernible] , and -- that actually concludes the product show. Thank you for tuning in.

All right. Thanks for the show, [indiscernible]. Our next speaker elaborates on the Inderes web development. So let's give a warm welcome to our product manager, Miikka Laitila.

Thank you, Eero. So hello, everyone. My name is Miikka Laitila, and I will briefly tell you about Inderes. So if [indiscernible] focused on the all listed companies and the customer side on top, and [Werner] will later discuss about the community. I will focus on the Inderes FI, SE and DK, so the web in the center and also touch upon the distribution as well. So what is the main functionality of the Inderes web? Well, it's connecting these 2 parties. And we don't only want to connect, but also match and encourage different parties for interactions. So inside the community, but also between these 2 parties. Well, what we are doing in concrete terms. Currently, we've been building a new platform for our sites. So you can see these are screenshots from the Inderes SE side. So that is the one running on the new platform and so is the interest DK. Inderes FI will follow later by the end of this year. These sites, they act as the home ground for our community. So there they can discover, they can learn, they can analyze, they can discuss about different companies. And there, of course, lies all our material, whether it is about the analysis, whether it's about the events or different releases and all the relevant things for the investor. We also provide different tools to support the investment process. So for example, stock comparison tool, dividend calendar and also model portfolio. So with this Nordic expansion that has been discussed previously, we have a wider reach and bigger audience for our customers' content, of course. And then naturally for the audience and the investors, we can provide better service and more content. And that is something that currently really guides our development. So what we want to do is we want to make it as effortless as possible for investors to find, discover and also consume relevant cross Nordic content. Well, not everybody is on our website yet. So then it's good that we have also distribution helping us. So what we do is we distribute our content to different websites, and we have different distribution partners. For example, you can see Cobalt, we have Avanza, have Bloomberg other parties there. Then on the social media side, we have the usual suspects, and we are also using local media partners. These, of course, these distribution partners, they are especially important when we want to create awareness on new markets about Inderes. Then we also have our audio app. So that is one way to listen to different interviews and content that we are producing and also events like this one. So -- what we know that investors are different. So someone wants to listen, somebody wants to watch. Somebody wants to read. So we are providing different opportunities for people to find and consume our content, whether they are retail investor in Sweden on Inderes SE, whether they are a new be on TikTok or they are a seasoned professional on Bloomberg there in all. Yes, I think that is quite briefly about Inderes web. What we want to do is we want to create an intuitive Cross Nordic platform designed for the growing content but also for the growing community. What I want to encourage is everybody, you can already go to the new site. You can see links there. Please use and provide feedback. You can send directly to me or discuss it on our forum or in Inderes FI or Inderes SE. Thank you.

Thank you, Miikka. Our next speaker is someone very familiar to the Inderes community. Let's welcome to the stage, our community builder and former police Officer, [Werner Paul Kennen].

Thank you, Eero. Good day our industry with [indiscernible] listeners and greeting store the physical audience here. So as Eero said today, I'm talking very basic stuff about our community. In the beginning, I want to highlight that we aim to build the most community-centric platform in the universe. This is not official target for the whole Inderes, but this is how our community team, we are around 10 persons -- this is how we think this is our everyday vision when we work. Our community refers to investors who interact with Inder's content and services I've added some means to these presentations. I think you won't see many CMD presentations, with memes. These are all from our community members. This one is from [Divinesia]. So if you get bored by my presentation, you can enjoy the memes, right? The core of the community sites, of course, at the interest. Though in a wider sense, we consider our Instagram or Facebook with the Youtube community and audiences as part of the community. We love if you spend time with us at Inderes. Because that improves our key performance indicator, but it's okay if you only want to enjoy time with us on Twitter or somewhere else. Our philosophy is that we try to be in all possible places and social medias where the investors just hang around. I think at least in Finland, it's hard not to see Inderes if you are an investor that's using Internet. So what's community building? It's very simple. It's like cooking Italian food but Italian food like Pasta takes 15 minutes, building a community might take 5 to even 15 years. So it takes longer, but the recipe is very simple. You need passion like Italian food. First, a great and Epic product or service must be built. For example, for Inderes that was analysis and especially [ Armata ] morning report back in the days. then build distribution with partners and by leveraging social media. People will notice the product falling law with it, if it works and become your fans. And over time, some fans will become evangelists spreading the gospel to the networks, bringing more fans to the service. Then you just have to organize a community around the excellent product or service by deploying Evangelist and fans and enjoy your time with them. The key takeaway in this slide, I think, is the high-quality service. This is what we have to think every day. Why community? Inderes services, everybody who uses Inderes knows that it's very hard cost of and quite complicated service. We have tons of very long PDFs. And it's very hard to do good social media marketing. We have tried many times. But if you try to market people that, hey, here's this for the page long PDF, why don't you love it, then we only wonder why they don't want to read it. It's very hard to do a good marketing on -- but instead, we are very good at creating -- or I think we are very good at creating interesting content like videos about that analysis. Also, we -- when we have a community that does worth the mouth marketing for us. We don't have to use much money on marketing. So we minimize our marketing costs. Community is a moat around Inderes service over time, and it's quite hard to displace interest when we have a community that is of high quality and it's very active. And of course, commodity gives us good feedback all the time. So we need to improve all the time. Here are some examples and quotes whether members think of us. The meme in the background refers to Harvia stock made by [Thomas Rahul] in our forum -- like Mauro said, it's hard to imagine life without Inderes or our Finnish forum. Forum is like a drug from unanimous user. Inderes is an exceptional island in this world of social media [indiscernible] in Finnish was the original world. So as you can see, investors who are part of our community, they are very passionate. They spent many hours per day with our time. I think Interest's contribution to finish GDP is negative because many people use their work time to hang around at our services. So how to build it? I echo the previous presentations here, we create the best service, then we try traffic to do in house platforms with good relevant content to investors that help them become better and more informed investors, hopefully, of course, they have to do something themselves also. Here are examples, morning report. As I said previously, we have short videos or Instagram and TikTok, a very popular social media among younger users or, for example, in these TV with many different concepts like analyst interviews, I have [indiscernible], we have Rose, Satava webcast, you name it. Community Development I would describe that it has gone from easy trading back in 2020 and '21 to what we call in Finland, [indiscernible] in a bear market in diplomatic terms. While we would like our community to grow over time, we are not concerned about short term, which means a few years shrinking of the community because of the beer market. Strong community will bounce back. And I would also add that I'm not worried about our community is shrinking. What I worry every day is the quality of our service and the quality of our community. If the quality stays high, we can sleep well and the community will grow over time when the market gets better. So the only focus is in the quality of the service. If [ Yao ] goes down a bit, it doesn't matter that much. But if the decrease continues for many years and the market goes up at the same time, then you can start roasting me why are we losing users. As you can see in the dividends, as I mean on the right, many people have churned, for example, into ETF investors. Yesterday, a big Swedish gaming company, Embracer gave very negative guidance and its stock went down 50%. And I saw many comments on our forum. This is it. I quit. Many investors quit yesterday, and they turned into ETFs. And it's -- of course, it's okay, but it's a very concrete example how investors lose interest in stock picking in these harder times. Sweden, I can only promise you blood, sweat and tears in the coming years. The recipe will be the same, with excellent service. We are building it, distribute. Advance partnership will have a lot build trust over time and also brand awareness with analysis or other content, for example, if we might find some very good companies and have good discussions about those companies are a forum that might drive traffic to our service. I'd like to highlight that in Finland, I think even though interest did many things right, we were bound to be successful. Because we were the only ones trying and no one has tried the same thing, but the difference in Sweden is that there are just gargantuan amount of different investor services. So it will be very difficult to make our service known among investors. We are not bound to be successful just because we do something. We really have to do something different, and I believe in independent research and high quality and that those things can make really a difference. Our target is to become a relevant investor media by the end of 2025. So if you ask people what is Inderes, they might have heard of it in the streets of Stockholm. And I also like to use this moment to highlight, we are hiring in Sweden. ISA has done an outstanding job in Swedish platform, but she also needs help. She's only working 4 times a week. If you are passionate, Swedish speaking investor living in Sweden, please contact us and help us build the service with the investors deserve. Avante, thank you. read analysis and make good topics and join our community, if you haven't already. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Berry. Now it's time for a short break of about 10 minutes, but don't go anywhere since we have loads of great presentations left for you to enjoy. So a short break will ensue. [Break]

And we are back live. So welcome back to Indus' Capital Markets Day 2023 program. I hope you had enough time to grab a snack and some coffee, where we have several interesting presentations ahead. Now it's time to link up to our colleagues in Sweden and hear more about Inderes Swedish expansion. So let's give the mic over first to Peter Westerlund and then Peter Sergel.

Hello, and welcome to the live audience here in Stockholm as well. Before my colleague, Peter Sergel will introduce our strategy, I will give you an update on the event business here in Sweden. As you already know, we acquired Financial Hearings and [SlimFabric] in last year's November. And after the acquisition, we now have over 200 listed companies here in Sweden. You can actually see financial hearings as financial years and scheme public as 1 team representing our event business here in Sweden. The operation itself is quite similar to the event business in Finland. But of course, there are some differences, which I would like to go through next. So here on this slide, I have never done the business and will only talk about quarterly reports. Here in Sweden, we have about the double amount of clients and even though we do the double amount of events, we have a smaller team compared to Finland. And the big difference is that 85% of all quarterly reports here in Sweden are remotely produced video and audio cost. Mainly audio cost, which doesn't require so much resources, 10% is studio productions and about 5% our on-site events in different locations. Even though we have the double amount of clients here in Sweden, our market share is much smaller compared to Finland. Our market share in Finland is over 90%. And this is due to the Swedish market is about 10x bigger compared to Finland. And this is something we see as a huge growth potential. By having a look on the competitor landscape, I must say that different platform providers will, in the future, be our biggest competitors. As software develop, tools are getting better, you will be able to automate things we now are doing manually. Our clients are already used to connect remotely by phone or using a web user interface. So by the beginning of this year, we have started to automate the operation here in Sweden. We are digitalizing internal processes, which used to be manual handled. This will over time reduce resources and minimize risk of human errors. And the tools we are providing to our clients are as well developing. And in the future, we will be able to reduce resources as well in actual productions. This event venue where we are today were launched in February, and this is a really good option for new high-end clients. And of course, for existing clients who would like to upgrade from a remote solution to a service with higher production value. This where we are today is suitable for quarterly reports. Capital Markets Days, smaller AGMs, press conferences and similar events. We have produced about 15 events here since the concept that were launched, and the client feedback we are getting is really positive. And by having an event venue like this allows us to produce more advanced IR events and we can remain a price effective service as well. And together with the event design team we have in Finland, we can now serve our clients here in Sweden with the same standard as in Finland. So this was a really quick and short update of the Swedish event business. And next, I would like to hand the word over to my colleague, Peter Sergel, who will introduce our strategy.

Hello, everyone. Thank you for listening in online, and a warm welcome to the people here in the studio in Stockholm, our really nice event place. The big question for Sweden is, can we build a flywheel of trust the same way as we have built in Finland? And all Investor Relations is [indiscernible] explained built on this trust issue so that the investors trust the information they read and the companies trust that we reach the right investors. The landscape in Sweden is a little bit different than in Finland. There are multiple competitors on each and every one of our specific services. So for instance, there are 5 to 10 different IR event providers. There are more than 10 to 20 equity research firms and multiple tech providers that can handle this type of events. And there's also multiple communities as Valery said. What we know exactly where we should position each and every one of our services. We know the competitive landscape for those services. But the most important thing is that no one has all of these services. So together, our services form a very unique offering on the market. The key product areas that we will focus on in Sweden, the coming years, this is also narrowed down into a time line where we will focus in the short term from now on in the coming year and a little bit on the longer term, as Peter Westerlund explained about the automation and so on. So the first focus that we have now is actually to utilize the studio capabilities that we have built here in Stockholm and increase the average spend per customer. So get the revenues up from these events by showing a great customer experience and the type of add-on services that we can provide, such as design distribution capabilities, et cetera, to prove that value. And then also launched a new type of equity research service that we do have with this A-class service that is extremely active and that reaches all these people that consumes this content. And then over time, move more and more into automated services. So lifting the high-end market with the studio productions, but also automate the low-end market with more do-it-yourself versions, services that are really easy to buy. Internal goals and what we're working with internally now is to develop, of course, our people and the customer experience. So we're letting the people grow in terms of being producers and production managers and technology providers by bringing bigger events into the studio. On the equity research side, we have proved the value problem where we will work with key references and even, as mentioned earlier, probono research of large-cap companies to show the value of our research and our distribution capabilities. So a little bit of educating the market, both on the business side, but also on the investor side. Internally, we will focus on transformation into a more sales-oriented organization. Financial hearing is an extremely strong brand that has been built during many, many years, but most of the sales is actually inbound sales, people asking for us to deliver services to them. And this we will enhance our outreach so that we can bring on more customers into our flywheel. And we're also focusing quite a lot on building distribution partnerships to enhance the reach to reach more investors and to build the Nordic community but also reach to other providers' platforms so that the content that we produce is actually received by as many as possible. So these are the short-term internal focus areas. If we look upon the general market challenges in Sweden, it is like that the Westerlund said in Finland 90% of the companies are mainly doing studio productions and in Sweden, we're mainly doing audiocasts. So how do we educate the market and transform the market to do these higher level of productions. And we need to get an acceptance for this from the companies that they actually do more and better productions and look more professional in their appearance to their investors and that they're also buying more and more value-add services and except that, that can be part of the package. On the trust side for equity research, the Swedish market, you've read the news in [indiscernible] industry that commission research or equity research is -- the reputation has not been so good. So here, we have a big educational part as well to educate both the companies and the investors to understand that the type of research that we make is actually a research to be trusted. And that is one of our key challenges on the market. And from the IR side software part, the key challenges come from competition and our reach into these business-to-business companies that we want as our customers and our sales and marketing efforts. So the focus area is a little bit longer time and more externally going out from the company will be on the marketing side to prove our independence and build this trust that we're talking about. So you will probably see a little bit more activities from our side there, both in our community side, but also in our distribution channels. When it comes to distribution, it's really important to have the right viewers. So over time, as our Nordic community grows, we can also show the activity and what they're doing by using analytics and data to feedback to the business customers. And hopefully, we will be able to create a more healthy stock climate and stock discussions here in Sweden, where you have a positive feedback loop between companies and investors, like Inderes built successfully in Finland. And then over time, but also starting already now, we already have the first few customers on these services. It should be really easy to use so that the customer themselves can launch a quarterly report, generate the press release and start the event if they want to, if they have the capability and to do that, it should be plug-and-play. But it should also be very easy to buy so that you can get access to this. And this comes down to how can we work with sales automation and lead generation and our web pages for business-to-business communication. So in the long run, putting all these pieces together, we believe that we also in Sweden can build a flywheel of trust by starting with an open and independent equity research that people trust. If the companies built a really comprehensive and compliant Web and IR communication using our software tools, we will help them to look professional as well with the events that they produce. So that gives you -- get your media training standing in front of the camera, speaking to an audience during the quarter reports to perform on the CMDs, et cetera, and look really professional. And then, of course, the key here is the distribution side that you want your content to reach as many as possible in the correct way. So that is the correct content and not the gossip that flies around out there. If we succeed with this, we believe that we can help companies increasing the liquidity in the stock trading and get more shareholders and shareholder relations that are built on trust and feedback. So in summary, externally, we're trying to transform the market so that studio productions become more of a must-have and they want to have than it is today on the Swedish market. We want to introduce a new level of equity research, which focus on fair value analysis and the professional is that, that signals. We want to expand into the lower end of the market using our software tools so that we can get more content on our platform and serve our investors better and, of course, enhance our distribution partnerships, both via producing new types of content, but also new types of distribution agreements with various partners. Our internal focus is, of course, to let people grow. And we believe that we can let people grow by doing more enhanced productions and higher level of services when it comes to equity research. We have a number of analysts already employed, and we have the first few customers on each and every service in our flywheel right now. So we are on a good path going forward. And we want to automate things where it makes sense. So with study production like this will not be automated. But there you need to have a human interaction and to create a great experience. But when it comes to quarter reports in the middle of the summer for instance, which you easily can do yourself, just do that transmission by pressing a button and you have the order to build process already at hand. That's our target for that part on the market. So with that, I would like to give our 10 points or 12 points actually back to Finland.

Thank you Peter. 12 points most definitely go to Sweden, although I suppose a couple of weeks ago, we could have spared some of those points to get that victory. However, let's continue with the program. Now we have a very special guest all the way from Denmark. So let's welcome to the stage, H.C. Andersen Capital CEO and Founder, Tue Ostergaard.

Thank you very much for, first of all, the invitation to come to your CMD. It's a pleasure to be here. I should send my regards from the team in Copenhagen. We are very delighted to work with Inderes that's [ virtual ]. It's a platform that is great. And I'll come back to a short introduction of why we think there's a great future together. First of all, this is me, we founded this company 3 years ago now. And it's been quite a ride. We share exactly the same values and the sort of dream of democratizing and digitalizing the financial market. So that's the thing. I'll take you briefly through HCA, why we're here. The problem we solve and where we see the future for us in Denmark, but also well -- with upside synergies. So first of all, it was founded 3 years ago. And one year ago, we made a deal with Inderes. And why was that? That was because the goal -- the solve of the problem is exactly the same. The Danish community, the Danish Investor Relations community is still very focused on institutional investors. It's still very focused on doing it the old way. We just' like to disrupt things. That's nice. So that's what we do. We have gone out there, try to be -- offer a new product in an old market, you can argue, solving the same problems as Inderes. And along came Inderes, we made a deal and now we're working together, I'll come back to that. So we're committed to the same things, growth and profitability. We have to make money every year. It's quite a hassle you know that, but we have to do it, and that's our guiding staff for how we want to develop the company. Remember, we're 3 years old. We have approximately 21 full-time employees, approximately 7 of them is in the research department. The rest is basically digital or advisory business that we do. We have revenue of EUR 1.6 million. Last year, we have cash at hand at EUR 1.5 million which is very nice in these markets, things change overnight. And the daily collab is on events. It's on a shared research. We hope that investors in Finland get some benefits out of this in Denmark simply because they can now access very easily new companies they never heard of. Not everything in Denmark is Novo Nordisk. It's a big thing, but there's a lot of other companies that we want to draw your attention to. So we do mutual events. We do content. And if you go in, if you're Finnish investor today, you can go in on Inderes.dk, check it out. It's, of course, slightly different, but the aim is the same that we want to attract and engage investors. So the synergies that you've seen on Sweden and Finland is quite obvious in my view. That is that all the things on the software side can be basically distributed to the Danish market very -- it's not easy. Nothing is easy in this world, but it can be done. The other thing is the equity side -- the equity research side. I think we will over time transform into the way Inderes has done it very beautifully. And of course, we will do the AGM service in Denmark too. It's not -- it's on discussion that it's a relevant product team. So the strategy from us in HCA and the team in Denmark is to grow the market share in Denmark, but also the Upside and how is the Upside on cross-selling the services. That was it. Thank you for listening, and thank you for the invitation.

Thank you Tue. Before I let you enjoy your coffee, I'd like to ask you a couple of questions. First of all, based on your experience of the cooperation during the first year with Inderes how's it's been working together with Inderes.

Well, the first thing we needed to get fixed was to have a platform. I mean the way Mikael introduced your early start was during all this on social media, and we realized the same thing. So we need to be on the platform. And we have concentrated on building Inderes.dk. So the content that we produce is shared. That's up and running. It was already in October, so 4 or 5 months after. And that was a stepping stone. And then I think we gradually explored the opportunities of the mutual events, for example, Finnish-Swedish companies presenting to Danish investors and vice versa. So it's been a very good experience. And every time we call for help, Inderes helps us. So that's great.

Fantastic. How is the market situation looking like at the moment in Denmark?

Do you want an honest answer?