Indian Bank (INDIANB) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Indian Bank's Q2 FY '21 Post Results Conference Call hosted by Batlivala & Karani Securities India Private Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. Participation in this conference call is by invitation only. Indian Bank reserves the right to block access to any person to whom an invitation is not sent. Unauthorized dissemination of content or the proceedings of the call is strictly prohibited, and prior explicit permission and written approval of the Indian Bank is imperative. Please note that this call is only for investor or analysts. Any guests from media are requested to disconnect the call now. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Bhavik Shah from Batlivala & Karani Securities. Thank you. Over to you, sir.

Thanks, Stephen. Good afternoon, everyone, and thanks for joining the call. On behalf of Batlivala & Karani Securities, we welcome you all to Indian Bank's Q2 FY '21 Post Results Conference Call. We have with us today the management of Indian Bank represented by Ms. Padmaja madam, MD and CEO; Mr. M.K Bhattacharya, Executive Director; Mr. V.P. Shenoy, Executive Director; Mr. K. Ramachandran and other senior officers. I would now request MD and CEO, ma'am, to start the call with her opening remarks on the Q2 FY'21 results, post which, we will start the Q&A session. Over to you, ma'am.

Yes. Thank you, Bhavik, and -- so good afternoon, and welcome to this analyst meet. On behalf of Indian Bank, I wish all of you a very happy Dussehra and a festive time ahead. Now the Q2 results of Indian Bank, very much in line with the improvements that we have shown in Q1. I think this is a very satisfying quarter for us. All the key parameters have shown significant improvement, both the earnings, the expenses and capital asset quality, you name it, and that there is an improvement in Asia. So I think the amalgamation is progressing quite well on expected lines, and all the synergies that we had anticipated are coming in. And more traction will be seen in the next quarter and going forward definitely with the opening up of this lockdown. So even during COVID times, I think the bank has been very active. And as can be seen, both from the results as also the time taken to give these results within 3 weeks, this is one of the few banks that would make it within 3 weeks. I think it's -- the operational efficiencies are coming in, in every which way. So if you will look at the profitability, the overall earnings have shown a very good improvement. The net interest income is up by 32% when compared to the amalgamated entity figures aggregated as of September 30. And the NIM also improved by 39 bps. NIM is now at 3.06%. But the noninterest income has been a big contributor to the overall income and also to the profitability. Part of this has come from the profit on sale of investments, but I think the themes of income for noninterest income have really diversified. And we have the fee income, the ForEx income, the transaction fee, the other -- the PSLC commission and also recovery from bad debts coming in, in a good way. The focus on interest expenses, bringing down the cost of funds, bringing down the cost of deposits through a steady decrease in the interest rates on both term deposits and SB also in line with the market has helped us really control the expenditure, both on the interest front and the same control has been exercised over the staff and the overhead expenses. The cost-to-income ratio is now at almost 48%, and this slight uptick compared to 47% last quarter was because of the provisions that we made for the staff expenses, which is the wage increase that is expected to come in very soon. 15% increase has been agreed upon by IBA, and so we have made full provisions for that during this quarter, about INR 263 crore has been made. Together with the pension provisions that we make, that has contributed to the increase in the cost to income. But even with that, compared to the year-on-year last year, it is improved by 338 bps. The -- business-wise, the total deposits grew by 7%. Again, I'm very happy that this increase came from SB and current account, 12% on current account and 9% on SB. The CASA advantage that we got with the amalgamation of Allahabad Bank is continuing, and we are building on it. So the CASA percentage at 41% gives a very good foundation for future improvements. The RAM book now constitutes 55% of total advances, and agriculture and MSME have registered good growth given the market conditions. Retail has been a bit muted, but I think this will pick up in the coming festive season for the rest of the year. Corporates has -- looks down. But when we actually add the TLTRO and the LTRO, the investment book that we had invested in the corporate bonds and other debt instruments, that's a flat amount that has been written off, [ INR 1,800 crores ]. Actually, it actually comes -- if it is taken under advances, corporate would have grown -- can be seen to be about [ 11.6% ] growth. The net -- the operating profit increase of 40% is a very good figure to have. It is now almost INR 3,000 crores, the operating profit for this quarter. And I think this is very sustainable for the bank. This should be the way, and maybe a little more improvement also is possible on future quarters. On a sequential basis, this has increased by 9%. Net profit, it was a loss last year on a combined entity, but this quarter, INR 412 crores. And that, too, after making the -- all the provisions on staff, also some additional provisions on standard assets into accounts aggregating almost INR 200 crores I think is a very satisfying figure to have as a net profit. The -- as we mentioned, the NIM and the net profit, but given the [indiscernible] focus of the bank, the -- even if we ignore the RBI dispensation and actually factoring in the notional NPAs that would have happened, I think we have these figures under control. The arresting slippages has been a big focus area for the bank for a long time, and that is now, again, pan India, this is being practiced. So even when this dispensation is lifted, I'm sure Indian Bank is in a very strong position to take this game forward. And the GNPA ratio, which is at 9.89% to date and net NPA at 2.96%, these are figures that we were already always talking of, I think will be below 10% and below 3%. Even with the lifting of the dispensation and taking into account whatever watch list accounts or whatever restructured or what is coming in the future, next 2 quarters, we are [ certain ] that, from what we see today, these figures should remain where they are or even reduce further. The return on assets and return on equity all have showed very good traction. And the other point is about the strength of the balance sheet, the capital. I think we have been continuously focusing on bringing down the risk base and the risk weighted assets, the density of these assets, and that has played together with the focus on the other parameters that go into it. And capital is now at 13.64%, capital adequacy, which is much above 13.45% of last quarter and definitely more than what was at the date of amalgamation. So given all these positives, I think the bank is in a very strong position today and with much more synergies coming in with the amalgamation. Amalgamation is progressing very much on track already in terms of whatever is physically possible within the COVID situation has been done. 76 branches and 25 administrative offices have already been merged. And the cost of synergies will kick in, partly during the Q3 or Q4 but much more so next year. And all this, we are tracking through a synergy tracker. So there is a very focused attention given to this. More than the rationalization part, the IT expenses are also being very carefully monitored. A lot of savings coming from there through the AMCs or through the other economies of scale, purchase of hardware or software. We are taking this opportunity to completely reinvent the business model to centralize the processing of loans, especially in MSME and retail, so that the turnaround time is reduced. The efficiencies are brought in. Due diligence has improved. And in corporate, the opening of this large corporate and mid-corporate branches across the country, making new verticals for these 2 portfolios, as also the focus on the SAM branches. I think this will offer well in future. We can already see the improvement in the time that we are taking to turn around, and Indian Bank will emerge as one of the major players in the corporate lending market. This is also opening up other areas of wallet share and getting the other businesses. Thanks to the RBI's current account circular, I think that also is going in favor of the bank. We have taken new initiatives, both on the digital. There is an all-in-one app, IndOASIS, that has been launched. It's receiving good traction. And apart from that, you are all aware that we have launched the business mentoring program in vernacular language, online program for MSME entrepreneurs. It's like an MBA for the small-scale entrepreneurs. So that has received very good appreciation. It was launched by the Union Finance Minister when she visited our office on 6th October. And very recently, we had a tie-up with IIT Madras Incubation Cell. The units that are incubated at IIT Madras will be referred by them to us for working capital or term loan requirement, and we would be lending based on the due diligence and the advisory received from IIT. I think this is one gap that was there in start-up funding, which Indian Bank has taken the initiative to bridge. And given the RBI's recent guideline on saying that INR 50 crores -- up to INR 50 crores of the start-up funding would come in the priority sector, I think this is a well-timed initiative by the bank. Given all these developments, I think we are quite confident. I think we owe it to our team to say that team effort has really paid off and the amalgamation will happen. The IT integration will happen within this financial year definitely, and the synergies will actually help the bank in the years to come. In the next 1 year, definitely and going forward also, we see Indian Bank emerging as one of the major and stronger banks in the economy. So thank you very much.

Should we open for Q&A?

Yes.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Rahul Nandwani from Centrum.

Congratulations on a good set of results. I wanted to ask you one thing. What sort of a demand or collection efficiency that will be in September and October?

Yes, yes. Just 1 minute.

Slide #30.

Okay. If you can go to the Slide #30, we have given the graph of the demand collection performance during the -- in all the portfolios through the months, so March to September. As you can see, there's an uptick in both August and September in all the portfolios. In the initial years -- in the initial months, it was a bit down, but now it is in each of these portfolios. Retail, it is 95% in September; agriculture, 96%; MSME, 86%; and corporate 96%. So this collection is improving, and this gives us the confidence that, going forward, this would help curtail the NPAs.

And in terms of, ma'am, the restructuring, what number are you looking at as a percentage of overall?

Yes. I mean, we have our own assessment of the requirement. But on corporate, I think we were looking at some INR 4,000 crore or so. And a few applications on it has come, about 6 to 8. But more will come, I think, in this current month because the consortium advances and all where other banks are leaders, they are probably approaching. And the meetings would be held in the coming weeks. But on retail and overall, we expect about 3% of the book, 3% to 4% of the book to be restructured. But the traction from retail and MSME is still to be seen. Retail, especially, is coming in only as a trickle.

And ma'am, in terms of collection from moratorium books, so someone who had, say, availed moratorium for the entire 6 months, so did he pay in September? Or what sort of percentage of customers do pay in retail, I'm asking, started paying in...

Whatever was the demand in September, 95% have paid, so what you are talking of that moratorium period. Even those customers, so -- the collections have come.

So that is similar, 95% of the moratorium.

Across the portfolio of Indian Bank, as you see in retail, 65% to 70% is the salaried -- is housing loans. And among that, another 60% to 70% is salaried employees. So housing loans and salaried employees is a good combination to -- for asset quality. That must be the reason why -- most of these are in the public sector or in IT companies where the job losses have been limited. So that is the reason probably in some of the public sector banks this retail portfolio will not be under so much -- there won't be so much demand for restructuring. They have been -- and one of the conditions of restructuring is that they should be COVID impacted. They should have loss of income or loss of jobs during this period. If they haven't lost that, they won't be eligible.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Arvind S. from IDFC Asset Management.

Yes. I just had one question. So post the amalgamation, have you adjusted your share premium account with the accumulated P&L losses that are there in your balance sheet? Or have you applied for that?

Yes. We have applied for that. So once we get the RBI approval, we will go ahead and adjust that.

Okay. So the entire amount of P&L loss of around [ INR 18-odd thousand ] would be adjusted against the...

Would be adjusted against the share premium balance.

Okay. And just a question on this. In terms of what is the regulator saying on the dispensation. Is it a onetime-only dispensation? Is it something they're open to frequently?

Which dispensation?

This adjustment of losses against the premium. Is RBI open to it in your discussion with them?

We are waiting on the matter. PNB has already done it, and we are waiting for the approval from RBI.

We are not aware whether it is onetime or something, but I think PNB has already obtained that approval. So we have also approached -- I don't expect any more accumulated losses to go back to RBI to ask for the -- this is onetime.

We are planning onetime only, the entire amount.

The next question is from the line of Mahrukh Adajania from Elara Capital.

So my question here is on collection efficiency only. So what will be the percentage of customers who not paid a single installment?

In retail, you are asking?

Yes, in retail.

In single installment in the last -- 20% or so in retail.

20% have not paid a single installment?

Yes. They have availed moratorium, I mean, in the last -- how many months, 2 months? Okay.

Sorry. So 20% have not paid a single installment.

We'll come back. Actually, if you see, total accounts that would have been turned NPA in case this moratorium would not have been extended. In the case of retail book, it's only INR 185 crores. So it's a...

[indiscernible]

We'll come back with the figures. We'll come back.

I think it's around -- it might be around 6% to 7%, but we will confirm that figure.

Okay. Got it. Got it. And my other question is on corporate restructuring. So you said that you received 6 to 7 applications for INR 4,000 crores. So could you give some color on what kind of corporate, what sector, what is the total debt outstanding of these corporates?

Okay. Mahrukh, in total, we are expecting to the extent of INR 4,000 crores. Now we have received 7 applications, mainly it is from hospitality sector, hotels and this one, tourism.

Okay, okay. Currently from the hotel and tourism?

Yes, yes.

And the ones that you have received, you are the lead banker [indiscernible].

Yes. So the sole banker.

So these are the sole bankers?

So ticket price is around INR 150 crores each.

INR 100 crores?

INR 150 crores.

Got it. And in terms of the amount of these applications that have already [ come ], what will it be?

Around INR 800 crores to INR 900 crores, but all these were good orders which we are paying in time. Because of this COVID impact, 6 months [indiscernible]. I think September, we had discussion with them, the footfalls are better. So hopefully, they are telling that, by March, we should be able to get back to the occupancy and percentage given that lockdown. But otherwise, they are going smoothly now. So that way, we don't have any issue, even the cyclical is good and even the promoters are good. So we don't see any further issues in this particular account.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Mona Khetan from Dolat Capital.

So my first question was on the slippages front. So if the Supreme Court order was not in place, what would have been your reported slippages against the [ 430 ] reported right now?

For the first half year, probably the notional NPAs that we have calculated was INR 2,000 crores. And this up to the September -- INR 2,200 crores. That is for both the quarters.

Okay. Got it. Yes. And on the restructuring front, just to confirm, you mentioned about INR 4,000 crore of restructuring proposals on the corporate side. And of this, around INR 800 crore or INR 900 crore is from the tourism, hotel sector. Is that the correct understanding?

No. Actually, I think a slight change. The expectation was that INR 4,000 crores or so will come for the restructuring, of which about INR 800 crores has come -- some 6 to 7 proposals. And incidentally, these are more from the hospitality sector, the hotels and other sectors related to hospitality.

In other cases, the...

These are all where we are single sole vendor, so there was fast movement on this. In others, we are [indiscernible]. So it will pass through the consortium, the other route.

Okay. So, so far, the proposal stand at around INR 800 crore, and you expect it could increase to INR 4,000 crores, including the consortium exposures.

Exactly. Yes.

Okay. And if you refer to Slide 16 of yours, the power sector loans have increased very sharply on a sequential basis. What would be the reason? I mean where are we increasing our exposure within the power segment?

Shenoy here. Mainly it is gencos and transmission companies and almost all state government companies which have been in profits and central government also in 1 or 2 cases.

Sure. And if I look at your double deal below book also on Slide 19, there has been a sharp rise from 33,000 to 43,000 this quarter, about INR 3,000 crore this quarter. What explains that? Have there been any downgrades then?

Yes. I think it's because of the downgrade in some of the accounts. So we can give you further details after this meeting, but that is the main reason.

Okay. And some of these have not currently been factored in the slippages?

No. These are not flipped as such. I mean these are just rating as BB, but the record of payment is there.

Got it. Got it. And lastly, on the tax front, we again have a tax rate of 42% this quarter. So do you expect it to rationalize to a lower rate closer to the 26% going forward?

We already shifted to 25% tax rate.

Moving it from 35%.

Yes.

Right. But then what explains the higher tax rate for this quarter?

Depending on the operating profit. So what we are doing...

The tax rate is 25% -- tax rate should be 25%.

Yes, yes.

25% on operating profit.

The tax rate is 25% operating profit. So we have [indiscernible] [ 34.95 ].

INR 306 crores.

INR 306 crores. Okay. We've adjusted the DTA on loss of Allahabad Bank, so [indiscernible].

The DTA loss has been adjusted, and that's why it looks like 40%. But actually, we have adjusted that, and we have paid only 25%. I mean we have provided 25%. I think I'll ask the CFO to give you the details of...

Sure. So could we expect that, going forward, the DTA adjustment is done with? Or could it play out in the future as well?

Another INR 300 crores is pending to be adjusted. So Mona, I think IT, we already taken care of in the first 2 quarters. The remaining, hopefully within the third, fourth quarter it will set off.

The next question is from the line of Rakesh Kumar from Systematix Shares.

Ma'am, just firstly on this current account deposit guideline which RBI had come out with. What is our approach as a bank for this thing and how we are planning to retain our current deposit composition in the system, not current account deposit for the bank? But as a system, how can we protect our market share? So that is one point. And second is that how -- like state-owned banks, how they are looking at it in general. And second question was what was the net DTA number as of March end, June end and September end?

Okay. First, on the current account, I think RBI circular is very clear. Especially, this was about the [indiscernible] companies. So wherever we are the lender to a company and we are the major lender, then the SBA account or the collection account -- the main account should be with the lending bank. So that, we are strictly implementing. Especially, this comes in favor of public sector banks because most of the big companies have been using the public sector banks for lending and private sector banks or foreign banks for their other requirements. The stickiness is there because probably those banks were early movers on the technology front, but now almost all public sector banks have a good technology in place. So even Indian Bank has a collection mechanism, and the digital interfaces have been developed. So that is one part. I don't see that lack -- I mean this is a big issue. The core thing was the stickiness of these companies with the other banks. So that we are giving some time and people are moving back. Or if that bank wants to give 10% of the loan, they are welcome. So this is happening. The banks are looking at getting the main share of the current account for the -- to attract the cash flows. But in terms of Indian Bank, I think the current account increase or the main sustenance comes from the government deposits, from the relationships we have across the country. Allahabad Bank was very strong on the CASA front. Indian Bank, too, has a very respectable CASA of almost 35% in the south, so this is quite remarkable. These are more from the current account savings bank portfolio of the bank. So this is continuing. And very recently also with the government, definitely, we have a very good relationship, both in Tamil Nadu, in UP, West Bengal, Delhi. So very recently, the [indiscernible] campaign of the government, they also tied up with Indian Bank so should be -- they tied up with us to route the government digital payments. So this is through the PAiSA Portal that Allahabad Bank had developed. So these are all the similar linkages are there with Tamil Nadu government also for routing the DBT. These are all the flows that is -- individually, they may be insignificant. But as a -- in terms of volumes, they are up to a lot in terms of the flow that happens through the bank's account. That is what is sustaining us in the CASA. One part is the company, but the bigger part is the government and other relationships. So that, we don't see as threat to the bank as long as we maintain that relationship. And we have a dedicated team in Delhi, looking at both the relationship and developing the technology for this relationship, actually integrating with the government department, helping them -- it's almost working like a fintech. So on the DTA front, I ask Shenoy to answer.

Yes. As far as the DTA is concerned, as of 1st April, the figure was INR 853 crores. And in June, we set up around INR 279 crores netted out. Balance was INR 574 crores. In September, we had netted out INR 306 crores. [indiscernible] bank's portion is [indiscernible]

6 to how much? Sorry, sorry. I missed the number.

INR 853 crores as of 1st April; INR 574 crores as of 30th June, balance; and INR 268 crores as of 30th September balance. We have set up INR 279 crores in June quarter and INR 306 crores September quarter.

Okay. Ma'am, just coming to -- coming back to the first question, the current deposit thing. Like it is like in the CCOD account, which is already there, it is all about what market share a bank has in the system in funded and non-funded facilities. So like in our bank, I don't know like in how many accounts we would have 10% market share or more to retain the CCOD account. So it is all about the market share balance that a bank has. And then picking and choosing some of the accounts which you would like to do. So what is the bank preference? Which kind of account -- it is just that we will try to retain the state government, central government accounts or quasi-government accounts or we would like to also retain private or corporate account for this current account deposition?

Yes. As you said, the current account is linked to the lending. And as you also mentioned, the 10% share in the consortium is important to get the current account. So wherever we are the member of the consortium, we are ensuring that we take more than 10%. And in accounts where we don't have that 10%, we are at a lower figure, we are working -- and now with the merger, the appetite is there. The exposure ceiling is still not hit on many of the large corporates that really are borrowing from the market. So Indian Bank is one of the banks which has these exposure still available on many of the companies. In the last 1 year itself, I think we have brought in a lot more corporates into the bank's books, and this, apart from the mid-corporates that we already have. In mid-corporates, we are either the leader or the sole lender. And these -- we have carved out a separate vertical for mid-corporates, so that focus comes on these accounts. And this across the bank we are focusing on. So when I said current account, it's not just the government. It is all these accounts. I mean if you -- if we have to separate these 2, I think at least 50% might be coming from the government, 50% or 55% estimate be coming from the -- our own relationships. So this we will sustain, and we will improve on this component of corporate current accounts. That will be the flow. So no corporate would want to keep funds [ hiding ]. So we need to have these other relationships with these companies, which also we are focusing on.

The next question is from the line of Jai Mundhra from B&K Securities.

First on this Slide #30 again. The SMA 2 number is INR 2,800 crores. Is this the same which we have said in our BSE release number? I mean is there any overlap in the INR 2,169 crores which are overdue and where asset classification benefit is extended?

That is a part of this INR 2,822 crores.

Okay. So if I were to look at the residual stress, so INR 2,822 crores already includes INR 2,169 crores right?

Yes, yes, yes.

Okay. And this INR 2,169 crores, is this the same number which otherwise would have slipped, if not for Supreme Court judgment?

Yes, yes. Correct.

Right. Now, sir, and the second thing is this advances outstanding since BSE release, the line #1 and line #2. Both are same, right? So is this -- I mean how do we reel this back? I thought maybe the first line is SMA 0, 1, plus 2, and the second line would be SMA 2 now. So maybe at Feb end, they were SMA 1 also. So is this -- I mean could these 2 lines be same or there has to be some SMA 0 number also, right?

Which side we were talking of 30 only?

No, no ma'am So BSE release...

BSE release. Okay, okay.

So the Slide #1, which is INR 2,169 crores total advances outstanding in SMA category, and the second line where asset class indication benefit is extended. So I thought the line number 2 would be a subset of line 1 because line 1 was everything, SMA 0 plus 1, plus 2.

No, no, no. It's -- we again only where the accounts would have turned NPA [indiscernible] had not been given. Solely, the NPA [indiscernible] change. Whatever the accounts had that benefit not been given by the Reserve Bank of India would have turned NPA. That is the same figure as mentioned in both the columns.

Okay. And then coming back to collection efficiency. So the numbers are very, very, very, let us say, positive numbers. That it looks like almost retail, agri, corporate, all 3 of them are 95%, 96%. So is there -- so -- at the same time, if I compare versus March, right, where there was, let us say, very little impact of COVID, so it looks like it is even better pre-COVID. I mean one thing is to reach pre-COVID level. It looks like you are already much above pre-COVID level. Is that the way to read it? Or there is something else?

I think -- you wanted to...

See as far as the efforts being put by the team is concerned, they have been continuously following up either of the recovery department or the moratorium department and the branches to see that wherever the scope for recovery is there, they will recover it. As a result of which, because of their persuasion and the regular follow-up, we've been able to achieve these recovery targets and contain the slippages. Secondly, as good as this is pre-COVID levels because we feel slowly it is coming on track [indiscernible]

Right. So I mean from a stress perspective, the rest, 3% to 4% -- 4% to 5%, people which are not paying, right?

Yes.

That should be the outer boundary for stress formation. Is that the right understanding?

Yes, yes.

The next question is from the line of M.B. Mahesh from Kotak Securities.

I just had 2 questions. One, if you could tell us, this quarter, the recovery has been reasonably strong at about 800. What's given that? And second, what kind of pipeline do you have in terms of recoveries in the corporate book in the second half of this year?

See, as far as corporate book is concerned, many of the cases have been referred to NCLT. And unless until a decision is taken there, it becomes difficult. But hopefully, by March -- not by December, by March, we expect some recoveries to come in the corporate group. Besides, I think some of the corporates where the outstanding is not much, they are also applying trying for OTF. So some amount may come during the December quarter. But overall, with the NCLT, 1 or 2 cases getting settled. By March, we expect a good recovery. Otherwise, [indiscernible] is planning to go ahead with it.

Any corporates or any names around or any sectors that is driving where you have firm visibilty reduction in the NPA side?

What is happening is NPA reduction. NCLT, nothing is moving. And we had said INR 4,500 crores will recover this year with about INR 2,000 crores coming from NCLT. So NCLT has signed. And the rest of it, I think we are on track. And this is happening either through soft recovery or through OTFs is also working. But more also through OTFs and other...

[indiscernible] we have achieved INR 930 crores.

So INR 930 crores.

See around less than INR 1 crore. The recoveries are to the order of around INR 930 crores and potentially written-off accounts INR 145 crores will recover. NCLT settlement which happened, which is prior to COVID, which is the settlement happened, that is around INR 145 crores. So that has moved. Now that the -- I think I said [indiscernible] will be better on track [indiscernible] through [ retailing ]. It will be happening. And the NCLT, hopefully, if things happen, then I think our target for this quarter is around INR 1,700 crores. And going forward, quarter, we are expecting [ INR 2,600 crores ] targeted [indiscernible].

Ma'am, just one clarification. Do you have any broad idea as to how are you likely to close this year in terms of cost and [indiscernible]? Or is this too early?

So we have our own back-of-the-envelope calculations and even taking into account restructuring or what will flip based on our own assessment which has held us in good stress so far. I think we will stick to the less than 10% of gross NPA and less than 3% in net NPA. So that we are confident we will be able to maintain.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is a follow-up from the line of Mona Khetan from Dolat Capital.

Ma'am, I just had a clarification on the collection efficiency number given. So would this include only the demand for this quarter? Or would this -- would the reported numbers also include any overdue payments for previous quarters?

All. It's including all, including the overdues, including this month's payments, all.

[Operator Instructions] As there are no further questions, I now hand the conference over to Mr. Bhavik Shah from B&K Securities. Over to you, sir.

Ma'am, I just have one question. Any guidance on treasury profit? Is our bond portfolio still has a duration price and [indiscernible] have strong figure [indiscernible] treasury in the second half also?

See, we don't expect the profit from treasury to the same extent during the first half. But then also, it's not -- it will not be very much [indiscernible] risk also. So overall, the yield is better now, and we are able to have a -- we still have 4 bonds, which we are to sell it and on which we are seeing a huge amount of profit. But we are being very calibrated, and we are doing it on a stage-by-stage basis.

Okay. So on behalf of Batlivala & Karani Securities, we thank Indian Bank management for giving us the opportunity to host the call. Thank you, everyone, and have a good day.

Thank you very much.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Batlivala & Karani Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.