Indian Railway Catering & Tourism Corporation Limited (IRCTC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello. Am I audible?

Yes, yes, you are audible sir.

So I think we can go straight way to this question answer session? Or do you want any some introduction, as you say?

I think for maybe the first 5, 10 minutes, we can have some brief introduction. And then post that, we'll head straight away to Q&A.

Slightly be more louder. It is audible, but not very clear, so kindly be louder. Kindly. Please tell we could not understand. Hello.

Yes. I'll be louder, sir. I think we can start off with the first 5, 10 minutes worth of introduction, and then we'll open the floor for Q&A.

Okay, okay, okay. So I'm Ajit Kumar, Director, Finance, IRCTC. And with me, this team is there, our GGM Finance is there, then our GGM IT will be there and we have our AGM Finance. And regarding -- I think -- is it the first time they are interacting with us? Is it the first time? Is it the first time?

No, sir, we have many investors here who are already aware of the company, and they broadly know the business model.

Okay. Okay. Okay. So now you see the results have already been declared. And -- I mean, we have done comparably well. But however, we always want to have your suggestions for benchmarking and any standards, which we think that would be practical and feasible. We would like to have your suggestions so that investors and one who influences the decision of the investors and one who will always be with us through thick and thin. So I would like to have your -- this -- whatever the strategy, the suggestions and all that, we will have an interactive session and if there is any data which is required, and which is a minute data. So that we -- you can always send to the CIRO, and we will -- by e-mail, we will be reverting back -- so we will utilize this time for some strategy, some -- your suggestions, so that to keep -- to grow this company in a forward direction. And as investors, we have -- always you have supported. So therefore, I mean, it is whatever you say. So we will try to see to it that it is implemented to make it a better market cap to be in the market and to ensure that the shareholders' interest in protected. So I think we can go ahead.

Thank you so much for that. So maybe if I hand back the floor to you and have 5 to 10 minutes' worth of introduction, you know something about recent results or anything in particular that you might want to highlight, I think that would be great for the investors and post which we can have a Q&A session.

Okay. then I think 1 or 2 things we see. I mean we are -- in general level, we're just giving you some brief snapshot, one that we -- that was the pandemic, the COVID-19, which affected everyone in the industry. So it affected also very badly -- but yes, I mean, due to diligence and due to the -- I mean, passengers, I mean this, again, what you say the movement because we are -- this company is dependent on the movement of the services of the passengers. So we are already surpassed the pre-COVID level. And one more thing is there that due to the -- I will tell you this very good development that government of India has realized that the number of the trains had to introduce more because then more number of people are becoming what you say, they are going out for their jobs, their works, for employment purposes, and we [Audio Gap]. The introduction of the new trends is in a very fast pace. And one of the most important factor regarding is this is in the introduction of the dedicated set corridor, I will be telling me slightly that earlier the introduction of new trains were stalled, because this was not possible because the line was choked, so the line capacity was not there. But once this has started, there's a dedicated freight corridor. So therefore, -- I mean, of course, only part of it there. So the freight traffic is now moving [Audio Gap] on the Indian Railway Network -- and that means the more number of trains are being produced. We, in this government, if you see that the production and the manufacturing of the coaches and the locos are in a very fast pace. And therefore, you see the number of trains are being introduced at a very short notice, this is the one. Another thing is there that number of new trains are being introduced, the number of -- the existing trains are being extended, the extension of the new trains -- old trains and the frequency of the trains is also being increased. All this having -- I mean, see the positive, what you say repercussions for us in the sense that more number of passengers travel, then the more number of tickets are being booked. We've already done very well in the -- I mean the online ticketing. And of course, it will be increased -- number one. Number 2, more number of passengers [Audio Gap] at the stations. So if more number of passengers visit the platform and visit the stations to board the trains. So that -- the sale of that also goes high. So we have the -- on the starting units like what you say this Jan Ahaar, this executive lounge, then than refreshment room, Food Plazas, and then, of course, we are doing much better in the -- this tourism, it is rebounding. So we are taking what you say, the advantage of this. And very recently, we had tied up with this Char Dham Uttarakhand, they look after the booking, this being done on our platform. So what I mean to say if the situation is normal and the people are traveling [Audio Gap] is always on the move, if you see whether it is festival season, marriage season, social and first employment region. So the movement is there, then, of course, we have made the life very much easier for our military and paramilitary for elections -- so they have -- earlier you see the warrant system was there. It was such a cumbersome, I mean, how to reconcile and how to get to the book. So we are acting as a one-stop solution for all the paramilitary forces, the movement, the elections -- and of course, the elections are coming, so that will be another thing the elections first will be running. So we will be taking care of everything right from A to Z, they don't have to bother about anything -- we are the single point interface. So in nutshell, what I would like to say that, I mean, we will whatever, we will be increasing our market share -- I mean these are passengers that are there in any case, they will be there. We are extended arm of the Indian Railways -- and the inventory is theirs, I mean, these passengers are there, but we have -- as a service provider as -- we want to have seamless travel experience for all the travelers, for the passengers and to have the real good experience, the introduction of new Vande Bharat if you could see. So that has -- I mean, what you say the change is there, because the number of trains introduced and the number of service levels if you see. So it is fantastic. So we are getting very good media -- reports also and we are -- still we are at a new point that we don't want to improve. We're still sort of improvement, we'd like to have from the -- feedback from the investors, from the passengers from the social media, whatever it is, we will take it very positive, and we understand that we should be benchmarked in this industry. I think this is sufficient. Now you can have the interactive session, whatever if you like to -- I mean, ask.

Sure, sir. Thank you so much for that background and for actually having your entire team present for this call. So I'll now pass it over to the investors who are present on the call. Investors, you can -- this is a very small group. So whenever you have a question, please go ahead and ask the question. Actually, sir, let me first. Let me just kick off the conversation, right? Would you have any specific comments on the initiatives that you're taking for the tourism segment, right? Now this is a segment which we think, in our opinion, has done [Audio Gap]

But no projects. I would like to say that we have taken on lease the 10 Bharat Gaurav trains entire coach and -- to make itinerary and to have the package for the entire 2 to 3 sectors will do there. Of course, one of the religious sector will be there, the Ramayana and other circuits and Char Dham and then Shiv Ling. And then we -- State Teertha Yatra. So we are [Audio Gap]. So therefore, that all this -- we are back, rather better than, only the rail-based tourism. So that is another thing which will be -- I mean, with our packages are full, and we'll be running the full fuel capacity, so that will be a very good, what you say, experience for the passengers who want to have their dedicated package to -- for whatever is in demand, of course it is on the market demand is there. So that will be increasing the revenue. And that will be a go long way because we are the only market player, I mean we are the only one, who -- who have -- who know the operations, who have the experience and who can have a good experience for the passengers, for the travelers who will be getting a dedicated package towards from us.

Understood, sir. Next question is from Udit.

I just wanted to understand currently what is the policy on the -- that IRCTC charges on per ticket -- per passenger ticket sold? And how is that going to change as more number of AC trains or higher fare trains are introduced. Like do we -- will we continue to charge it on a revenue basis -- percentage of revenue? Or will it be a flat fee per ticket?

It is a flat fee per ticket. Sorry, to interrupt. It is flat fee per ticket. It is INR 13 for the AC classes and INR 15 for non-AC classes.

Understood. Understood. And given that we will be doing more ancillary services, right, we will be providing food and bedding services as well on all the new Vande Bharat trains, et cetera. So how -- what is the revenue that we expect to generate, if I think on a per passenger basis and the profit on the same?

No, I think, see, it will depend on train to train because what we go as a transparent bidding process where the -- as per our criteria, the service providers were in panel with us and that registration is open for throughout the year, those were in panel, they bid for it and they put the advanced license fee, the one who quotes the maximum license fee is given the license to operate the catering on that train. So therefore, it will be -- I mean this -- I believe -- I'll send you the figure whatever is -- because it will be different for others. Because each trains will be -- as of now every train is a contract. So every train we advertise, I mean, separately. So in a sense that it will be different for let's say Vande Bharat, which is a premium train that will be in service per passenger will be different than Rajdhani, Shatabdi, the main express I will send the figures for each one for the major categories by e-mail, just send your query, whatever is there. But one more thing is there, regarding -- we are coming out for new policy in consultation with the Ministry of Railways because we are realizing that we should give a seamless experience for the catering to the passengers. For that we would like to have a modern kitchen. Modern kitchen is one where -- from where, I mean -- a state-of-the-art kitchen from where the food is produced, and the food production is the most important because if that is the hygienic and everything up to the mark. -- so that the distribution will be easier. As of now, we are going for short-term contracts, but we are refining our -- what you say, a big document, but very soon, most probably, we will be coming with a new concept that is called a cluster, cluster best, what you say, trending. That means suppose from New Delhi -- suppose 100 trains start, then maybe 5, 6 or 7 trains, something like that, a cluster will be of 7 trains or something like that. Now this cluster is the one who will be bidding for -- it is not for 1 single tender -- train, but for a cluster of it. Then -- but before that, prerequisite will be that he has to make a modern kitchen state-of-the-art as per our standards -- international standard. And this, of course, the entire hygiene and then this AI-based camera for supervisors, and we will be monitoring it. So that will increase slightly the revenue, that is number one. Number two, that [Audio Gap] of the Ministry of Railways from where the food production at one place -- one agency and the distribution is by the other agency in what happened due to the taxation regime, we had to pay the taxes twice, so twice the taxes were there. So now the one agency will be there. So the tax element, which was double. So that will be -- I mean single tax system will be there and that amount will be used for the food production. So that means that the quality of the food will go high. So what I meant to say that per passenger what you're telling this will be different for different trains. And then we are coming with the clusters. But however, if you ask a specific question by mail, I will send the answer because this type of analysis we have not made for each train.

Understood. And sir, like if you can help us understand currently how many people are availing IRCTC tourism packages and what is the -- our plan? Like -- how many -- what is the volume that we want to grow it to? And are we hiring any agencies or some people on role to promote it? What is -- how are we thinking about it?

See there are 2 things, again, I'm telling you the first thing -- the tourism, we -- there are 3 parts that will cover. Rail tourism I think I've covered. Then, the packaged tourism is by any means. I mean -- normally, of course, rail and air travel package. And of course, one thing is our platform is so robust that we are doing, let's say 10,000 bus booking. So that is of course different, that is not tourism, but indirectly itself. Then I told you the Char Dham, maybe the Lakshadweep also we will be getting it. So we are in a talk with different, what you say agencies, different governments and different organizations. But the air travel, we compete with unorganized private players. To be very frank, our packages are -- to be very frank are slightly high. We're being in a public sector, being a listed company, we have to ensure that whatever the services we intend, we advertise and we promise, we have to deliver it. And in the air package [Audio Gap] send one more supervisor to them. And then we have the aggregator best so that whatever the package we finalize in advance -- so the aggregator takes care of each and everything right from the -- I mean, receiving and then whatever -- this sightseeing and catering and everything and hotel bookings. So one of our [indiscernible] officer goes in that. So slightly the cost will be -- supposed that -- to make that comparison, let's say, for unorganized players is INR 100, and then maybe ours will be INR 101, INR 102, so slightly will be high. But then whatever we promise, whatever it is, we will fulfill it. And then we don't do so much advertising. Otherwise -- other, I will not place -- name the players, but you already know that many players are there, they are advertising too much, advertisement cost is too much. We don't advertise because word of mouth publicity and our, what you say the market standing is there. So therefore, we keep on getting the repeat and then the reference to this one. So as of now, if you see this, with visa restrictions when it were eased, so we have started the international tourism also. And then the Eastern, Maldives and Mauritius then, of course, in India, there's Andaman, then what you say, this Leh, Ladakh and of course, LTC, we are the preferred, because LTC the government department, government officers, those who have to avail the LTC. So they had to run -- I mean -- I mean we take the one-stop solution, because the moment you come to us with the package, we bring it in advance, so that to see through the market as per the festival, then as per the pricing, and of course, we block the inventory well in advance, seeing that. But only the thing is that we -- as I told you,we compete with the unorganized market, we don't give any cash back, which is possible for a private company. So that is another thing as a government company that we don't do it. So slightly -- our packages are slightly -- I mean, higher. But then you will have a seamless experience without having difficulty, because as I told that our -- one of the supervisor will be there to take each and every care for each and every passenger on board, the moment they de-board it and not only de-board, right from the package -- from the start. So all the seamless operations from -- I mean, the moment you board it and then, of course, our entire traveling circuit and then you come back. And then we are getting a very feedback -- very good feedback. And of course, if there is an improvement, any suggestions, so we ensure that it is incorporated in the next tour. But what I feel that sometimes, the air -- I mean this air package question you were asking -- talking, there is a limit to which, I mean -- because you have to also see the air fare, the air fare, I mean, too much of the penetration of civil aviation -- this number of planes are still less compared to the demand. So therefore, it is slightly a bit higher. Then there's a limit to which we can see that we can cut it. And of course, rail tourism is there. But air tourism especially, I'm telling it is going high. But then the -- I mean inventory is less, passengers are more. And then beyond the point -- flux point, beyond which it becomes unprofitable because no one will this -- book it also, and we can't block everything in advance so that no one takes it. So it is a market. we play in the market, seeing the market trend, seeing the trend of the passenger [Audio Gap] all type of tourism, let's say with eco-tourism, then this what you say the religious tourism, then the leisure tourism. So we cater to each and every but provided there is a demand of the -- I mean market demands, they only we do it.

Sir, just for my understanding, sorry, I'm a bit new here. So sir you are booking in advance, you're blocking hotel rooms, airfreight tickets, everything and you are taking that inventory risk. Is that understanding correct?

Part of it. I will not say because as I told you, suppose that we know that every -- suppose that it's a holiday season, every -- as per historical trends, as per the market survey, we know that let's say 500 people will be traveling, so we understand that at least one [indiscernible] if you will get into 100, we block it. But we can't block it let's say 300 and then something will be wrong [indiscernible] pay. So we keep what has been trend, how much trend, how much we have been giving the service, how much we will be coming to it, our travel agents are also there, 2 more things are there. They compete with us and [indiscernible], because that is also there. They are also agents also and they also compete with us. As I told you that the way we compete in the unorganized market. which everyone is free to, I mean everyone can become a travel agent and they can advertise and then whatever the services that is a different thing. But as I told you, slightly ours is higher. So we want to -- whatever we promise, we want to deliver it more than whatever we promised. So therefore, we, of course, take it into inventory. But then we -- I mean government [indiscernible] in the market, we take a calculated risk, reasonable risk. I will not say that we'll book all the 400 to 500 inventory whatever is possible.

Understood. And sir, so if you can help me like how many people book the holiday package, which may be 3-day, 5-day tour on your platform? And what is the size of the tourism department that we have in-house.

If you don't have the data, then we can again send the data. I will request one thing. I mean we have very minor data, from which -- packages from which sectors and what we have everything, but then it will little take time. But sir, some of the -- I will just tell you. Figures are there. Okay. Then -- let's say [indiscernible]. Then holiday, customized education packages INR 15 crores roughly. Then corporate travel business, online air ticketing business that was [indiscernible]. That was only our commission, of course. Then online hotel, retiring room bookings, then INR 0.39 crores was there. Then online bus booking INR 5.96 crore. Then what is that, MM? [indiscernible], then cruise, I think we have not done this time because 1 cruise was there, so we have not done this time [indiscernible]. The total packages, we have earned INR 27 crores -- earnings, our earnings, our part.

Next, we have Debasmita.

So I basically had 2 questions on the Internet ticketing segment. So 1 is that I know that there is a discount that is currently offered on payments made via UPI, and that is to promote UPI and digital payments. But given that UPI payments are now approximately, say, 37% of overall ticket bookings, and therefore, it is getting to a saturated level, is there a plan to remove this discount on UPI payments going forward? And, my second question was on the new Vande Bharat trains that have been announced. So as a result of, say, the 75 new trains that come in and then another 400. What is the increase in number of passengers and in the ticket bookings that you're expecting going forward?

[indiscernible] please.

As of now, there is no plan to change the UPI structure. And from Vande Bharat, we are expecting around 3% increase in number of business.

Sorry, please, ask the question.

Sorry, is the 3% increase over and above the regular increase that you see year-on-year?

Yes, it will be over and above.

And this 3% increase is coming from the 75 trains or the 475 trains?

No, there is a plan of 100 in the first stage. Already, some of them were launched next year -- last year. So we are talking about for this year.

So 3% increase for approximately 75 trains?

Yes, maybe.

We'll move on to the next participant. Debasmita, did that answer your question?

Yes. Maybe we can take it offline and send our queries via e-mail.

Next question is from Dhruv.

Am I audible?

Yes. You need to be a little louder.

Okay, am I audible now?

Still same.

It's not audible, please. It's not audible. Your question is not audible.

Can you hear me now?

No, you are -- actually the voice is really faint.

Yes, yes, yes, voice not clear.

Can you use other device? Or you want to send it over chat or e-mail to me? I can take it up?

Yes.

Yes, sure. I will do that.

All right. Next, we have a question from Shreya.

Sure. So I just wanted to follow up on your comments earlier about extending the capacity of current trains and also the impact of the dedicated freight corridor. So what could be the incremental capacity that we are looking at from these 2 initiatives? And when do we expect that to happen? Is it like more like a 1-year, 2-year thing that we're expecting or more like a 4- to 5-year plan?

See, earlier, I mean pre-COVID we were doing 890 trains this catering. And the total number of trains, now we are doing around more than 1,200. So of course, I mean, this is -- that corridor is -- all 4 metros and then crisscross will be there. So that [Audio Gap] line capacity, which is being added. And coupled with that, also that what will be the coach manufacturing and loco manufacturing, also taking place. So it is synchronization of all the 3. But that is a fact that whenever -- whatever the demand will always be there in such a vast country with a vast population. And I mean this -- the travel, which is taking place whatever region, business region, leisure region, marriage region, social region, employment region, whatever is there. So that demand will always be there because if you see the current -- this booking and waitlisted passengers. So incremental around -- roughly around 12% to 13% out of the passengers, which we have seen historically. But again, I'm telling you, it can be more than that provided that the cost of this -- pace of construction of the dedicated freight corridor is matched with the number of locos and number of coaches, which form a train, that when the train is there, then of course, there is Ministry of Railways to receive the train and we are ready to -- I mean, do the entire service as a service provider, right from catering, then booking and then, of course, packaged drinking water. So that is the almost train. So this will be depending on many factors, but yes, it will be always more than 10%.

Got it. Got it. And any time line for that, that you have in mind? Or is it like, again, not really fixed, right?

I will tell you that, but -- and in theoretically, I can tell anything. But remember that the construction of the new lines, which involves capital and whatever is their supply chain management, that is one thing and the land acquisition from the farmers. And so -- I mean -- so that is another issue where I will not like to dwell on this because then state governments and so many things come up. But still, I mean, this as per the latest laws, the land acquisition of the central government or what is the national importance. I mean whatever sub-judice litigations are there, but still the things are moving. So I cannot -- this time line already -- by the way, it's monitored every week, not less than the prime mister himself. That I can assure you that where all the cabinet ministers will all be there. So what I mean to say that this is going at a very fast pace. In the same way, the manufacturing of the loco and the coaches. So that is also in a very increased pace. But then I told you it had to be synchronized, all the 3. Then only the introduction of the new train will be there and then only this will come into picture. So it will depend on many factors. But obviously, if the passengers are ready to travel, if the passengers -- it's responsibility of the government to ensure that the passengers travel -- they have a seamless experience of traveling and there is demand. And then in any case, it is a profitable venture for the government as well as for us and as a part of government we always pay the -- what you say the dividend. So what I mean to say is everyone is in line, in sync, whether it is a construction of the new lines, whether it is a production of the new coaches or production of the locomotive. And we, in the same sense we keep on enhancing our capacity of the ticket booking and I mean this -- our Internet system, our infrastructure of the IT system. And of course, we keep on seeing that what will be the new route which come in advance, so then service providers -- there should be adequate service providers who can take care and then coupled with that, of course, the packaged drinking water so that I mean we can ensure that the drinking water is available to the traveling public. So all this keeps on going. So, I mean time line, I will not say anything, but they are a very fast pace and percentage, I told you roughly like this, but it may be that in the near future, if there are more, what you say, the technological upgradation is there. I mean, in some areas, let's say, the less problem of the land acquisition is there. [indiscernible] there's not much agitation. So all the things are there.

Sir. I'll ask you questions on Dhruv's behalf. So he is asking, can you talk about the second sleeper volume share in ticketing volumes for FY 2023 and for 1Q FY '24? And how would this shape up going forward?

[Foreign Language].

2S, the booking of the 2S which are reserved category earlier, the last quarter, it was INR 3.14 crores and now currently is INR 1.33 crores. So it has, of course, gone down because not reserved.

Okay. And sir, anything that you want to comment on how this share would be going forward?

I could not understand your question.

How the share of second S would be going forward?

Yes, Yes, slow and steady it will go, but it will be ably compensated by the introduction of the new Vande Bharat and then our revenue will be administered compensated rather more than that. So -- because we are increasing the [indiscernible] and the number of what you say inventory thing, coupled with that, of course, the catering and then, of course, this packaged drinking water. So yes, it will go slowly and slowly, but then it will be ably compensated by introduction of new trains.

Understood, sir. And then he has a follow-up question. Is there any progress on price hikes in Rail Neer?

You see price, I will tell you regarding this. This is administered price from the government by the Ministry of Railways, this administered price, the price is fixed by them, number one. Number two, that, yes, the cost of production has been increasing because this is, what you say, it is a function of the petroleum products. And sometimes due to the external disturbances also, sometimes it goes high, sometimes it goes low and all those things are going on. But yes, this is a fact that there is increasing trend of the -- I mean, cost of products. We have written requested Ministry of Railways for this. It is under consideration. It is a fact that other packaged drinking water, those who are unorganized sector or whatever organized sector, they have already, what you say, hiked their rate, I mean, that is the public, what you say, the current price -- so we -- as of now, we are comfortable. But yes, if the price increase will be there in the cost of manufacturing due to the factors of the production of the petroleum products, which is not in our control, then obviously, the Ministry of Railways will also consider this because they are reasonable. They are a part of it. They also have a 62% share. So they will -- they are taking a view on this. It is under consideration.

Understood, sir. And his last question is, the per ticket convenience charge, right? What is it currently for tickets booked via UPI?

Via UPI it is INR 10 for non-AC and INR 20 for AC.

Okay. And UPI share, can you quantify for FY '23 and 1Q FY '24?

Last year, it was 33% UPI share was and now this year, it is 37% -- this quarter, 37%.

Okay. Okay. Understood, sir.

It is increasing, yes.

Got it. And I think he has one more question. There are a lot of disputes on revenues with catering licensees based on your disclosures. Is there any progress on that?

I could not understand, please, can you repeat it?

Yes, sure. So there are some disputes on revenues with catering licensees.

I got it. You see, as I told -- explained earlier also that as of now, you are having a short-term contracts, number one. Number two, that we are going to have a long-term contract. And many contracts are under -- many tenders are being -- will be floated are under preparation or whatever the document been prepared, and then I told some of the trains have been extended, then frequency has increased. So all this will couple with that. In any case, it will be increased revenue share to us. But [indiscernible] trains were introduced, but [Audio Gap] kilometers and all that. They start at 11 o'clock in the night and terminate at let's say 7 o'clock or 6 o'clock in the morning. Then [indiscernible] function of market demand and supply and the service providers even if you tender, the [indiscernible] only 5% of the people will be having the meals, so that is another thing. Number of trains may be increased, but if you don't have the meals on the train, so that is of no use to us. Because we have to have this catering and Rail Neer. So I mean what I mean to say that they have to pay the license fee and if they don't earn the cost to the revenue, so they will not come and that is happening. So many trains are there. Number of trains are increasing. If they don't have the sufficient number of meals where they break even. So therefore, no service provider is coming. And even if we tender them, there is no use, I mean there is no point because that is not a revenue earner for us.

Understood, sir. Sir, another question on catering. IRCTC currently offer catering in, let's say, 1,200 trains, and there are plans to add 200 trains to that. So what is the time line during which you will add this 200 count?

You see the 200 new trains time line, because this is all dependent on the Ministry of Railways as such. I told you that we are the one -- once we get the trains introduced, rather the start of the launching of the new trains is a function of the Ministry of Railways. But I told you in sufficient detail, that, yes, if the number of passengers are not getting seats, they want to travel, there is a demand, and it is public responsibility, government responsibility and it is revenue earner for government also. And for, of course, the shareholders also. So therefore, the all round -- I mean, effort is being taken to increase, I mean, to construct the new lines, that is number one. Number two, to have the line capacity due to the operation due to the -- what is the operation requirements are getting synchronized, the new technology has been so that the manpower, I mean, the detention and all that, so turnaround. So all these things are taking place. Of course, coupled with that, production of the new coaches and the locomotives, so that is another supply chain. So this is already going on and [indiscernible] highest level. So launching of the new is basically a prerogative and function of Ministry of Railways but they are also, I tell you aligned -- the public demand. So therefore, I cannot comment exactly what will be the time line and all that. But I told you that it is at a very, very fast enhanced pace and the government is really considering so that the waitlisted passengers should not be there. They should have a facility to travel if they want to travel for whatever reason -- primary reason, for whatever reason.

Understood, sir. I think Debasmita had some more questions on this, I will pass on the chat to her.

Sir I meant that there are 200 trains that are currently not catered to by IRCTC and are also not -- there's no plan to include them in the entire list of the total 1,600 passenger trains. So my question was that, is there any plan in the future to include those trains as well in the fold of catering?

You see the thing is that TSV we call it like train side vending, where not much demand of the food is there. So we, of course, we have tried to tender it out. Since no service provider has come, we keep on reducing the license fees to the bare minimum, if still are not coming, then of course, we have tied up like this -- that train side vending the concept like this, that no pantry will be there, no -- dedicated kitchen will not be there. But then the [Audio Gap] and book the order and then of course, they will give you an advance let's say 3 to 4 hours in advance to the next best stations, whatever the junction is there. From there, they should pick up the food and then of course distribute it. So that is one. And by the way, we also started e-catering also. So [indiscernible] I mean, they have opportunity, they have option. I mean -- 2 days back, 66,000 was the total meals booked. So it is an increasing speed. But since it is -- this license best model -- so in the TSV train, where there are not sufficient number of people who would require food, who do not order food. So in any case, that will be loss making proposition even for service provider. And therefore, even after tendering, no one has come up. So therefore, there is no option but to have the TSV or the e-catering. Because ultimately, we are giving all opportunities. If there's sufficient breakeven is there, then of course, some catering license provider will be there. If they're not, then we have TSV. If it is not there, then still many -- much less number of meals is required, then the e-catering is also there. So we have tried to satisfy all the passengers, but it depends on the volume. Because we don't have the volume gain, that is the main thing. The breakeven has to be there, because this is pure business sense.

Understood, sir. So is it correct to say that all passenger trains have either catering or e-catering services or train side vending? And these 3 broadly cover all the 1,600 trains right now?

Yes, yes. Of course, Of course, very rightly.

Okay. Understood. And then I had one more question on Rail Neer as well. So I understand that right now, it is available in only about 600 stations. So with the additional 4 new plants is IRCTC planning to reach the other stations that it's currently not serving as well?

Very right. Correct. Correct. We would like to, because as I told mandatory like this, that once we enter some station, other way around. Once we are not able to reach some station, platform station, railway establishment, then we request the Zonal Railways, the Ministry of Railways itself to have the -- to empanel some of the, what you say the packaged drinking water and provide to the passengers. But however, once our production goes high, and we are able to cater to serve some station, then that is dedicated as a mandatory station. Mandatory Rail Neer station, that means all the brands will be out -- and [indiscernible] only our packaged drinking water will be there. So no one has -- then, no one has the right to sell it. Because that becomes the mandatory. So we are trying to increase the mandatory stations gradually. So this is what you said, the 4 plants, what you told , which you have in knowledge. So this will be again, increasing that and what is the [Audio Gap] Hello. Am I clear?

Yes, sir. That was very helpful.

Sir there is one follow-up question from Dhruv and he's asking what was the haulage charge increase taken by railways for Tejas trains and what is the annual impact of the same?

I will tell you, this haulage charge of railways no doubt they have -- we have got a letter that it will be -- it has been increased from retrospective effect. That is number one. We have requested that to consider it and it should not be from the, what you say, retrospective effect, but from the prospective effect. As far -- and they are under consideration and I will tell you what was the earlier haulage charge, that was INR 31 crores. And then the variable charges was INR 51 crores, then study charges was INR 3.48 crores. And of course, other expenses are there. So that was earlier what it is as per the direction of the Ministry of Railways, but we are confident that -- we have written a letter with the series of consultations and meetings, and we have been trying to convince them that the charges should be only from retrospective -- from perspective from future date, it should not be from retrospective effect. It is under consideration, and we are hopeful that it will be done. Now even if from perspective effect will there, then we will change our -- the business model, the revenue model. So [Audio Gap].

Sir, we missed the last part of what you said. I think the connection was a little weak.

Okay. Okay. What I meant to say that, yes, we have got the tariff charges from the Ministry of Railways, which has been applied from retrospective effect. We have written a letter, we have persuaded with them, and we have a series of meetings and consultations and we have been able to convince them that it should be from the -- not from retrospective effect, but from the perspective effect from the future date. That is number one. Number two, that in all probabilities, we are confident that we -- since we are reasonable and as a reasonable stand, we will be getting it wiped off. Number three, that in future, whatever increase is there, we will be trying that we will align our policies in such a way that our revenue model should be such that it should be a profitable venture. Of course, we have made a provision of around INR 52 crores for the last 2 years. So that is as a conservative accounting practices, we have made it. But then we are confident that the Ministry of Railways will, what you say, take decision which is a reasonable stand and waive off and apply the study charges, what you say, this tariff charges, haulage charges, not from the -- this retrospective effect, but only from the future date.

Understood, sir. That is very clear. If there are any more questions from participants, we can take them now. I don't see any questions here. Sir, I had one last question maybe, and [indiscernible]. Sir, let us say, there are 2 scenarios, right? In case 1, you sell the ticket directly to the customer through the IRCTC website. And case 2, the ticket is being sold through some aggregator, right? It could be some travel agent. In both the cases, do you make the same amount of commission on a per ticket basis?

I will tell you what is that. Let's say, typically, we have made our own agents. So that is we have allowed competitions amongst ourselves -- with us. So with the B2C, the providers, so they haven't made agents, so they can also book the ticket, but of course, the pipeline is the same, so they have to come again back to us. Now the charges wise, the INR 30, let's say for AC, INR 30 is the maximum we can charge from the AC ticket. And we -- they are empowered to charge maximum INR 40, okay? INR 30 plus INR 40, INR 70. But however, some of the customers are having due to ease of operation, whatever reason. So they book through them, they are free to it. So out of INR 40, INR 12 comes to us the percentage, INR 12. So that means we end up with INR 30 plus INR 12, that is INR 42. But the passenger pays for INR 70, so that is the cost.

Got it, sir. Thank you so much. Debasmita, you have a question?

So sir, I wanted to ask a question on convenience fee. So right now, it is charged on a per PNR basis versus a per ticket basis. Is there any plan to -- to change it so that it's charged on a per ticket basis going forward?

You see at the moment, it is quite profitable, the profit margin are very adequate. We are -- I mean as a responsible public sector company though we are in the business also, but then we will -- we have the mandate. IRCTC has a mandate. We will see to it, if with the demand -- situation demands, we will go as per whatever reasonable. But at the moment, I think we are comfortable with this. So therefore, immediately, there is no plan.

Okay. Sir, I think there is just one last question. What percentage of ticketing revenue is from AC tickets?

AC tickets. Okay. Okay. Just a minute.

Sir, there's just one last question. What percentage of ticketing revenue is from AC tickets?

Yes, yes, just a minute, just getting the data. If we have some [Foreign Language] the question is what is the percentage of ticket revenue from AC tickets. AC tickets ,what is the revenue percentage out of...

I heard the question. Actually, the number of tickets booked in AC classes is roughly 35% and other than AC is 65%. The revenue from convenience fee from this is roughly around 45%. I am not -- exact numbers not trying to give, but that will somewhere around 45%.

Is that clear? 45% for the revenue or the convenience fee.

Got it. Got it. Yes, that is clear. I think we are out of time, and we've taken some additional minutes of your time also. So on that note, Ajit sir, and your entire IRCTC team, many, many thanks for taking the time out and for answering all our questions.

Thank you. Thank you all, any suggestions are welcome, so that we try to ensure that these are whatever practical, feasible we want to -- because we want to be in touch with, I mean, business standard, the market, so these are the one. I mean you keep on advising us. So thank you very much.

Thank you, sir. [indiscernible] interact with companies very often on this, and we'll be in touch with you. Thank you.

Okay, thank you. We can log off then.