Indorama Ventures Public Company Limited (IVL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Indorama Ventures 2026 Capital Markets Day. To start off the morning today, I would like to show you a short clip of our global capability center that we've built in Kolkata, which we're very proud of, and which shows -- we will be talking about it further during the day. So let's start with that short video clip, please. [Presentation]

I hope you had a chance to absorb the overview of our global capability center, which I said we're very proud of. My name is Kumar Ladha, and I've recently been appointed as the Chief Strategy Officer for the group. Some of you may remember me from last year's CMD where I was presenting CPET segment along with my co-leader at that time, Muthukumar Paramasivam. I'm proud to say that we -- that I've been working at Indorama for 22 years, serving in different business roles spanning various countries through my career. In my new role, one of my key areas of responsibility will be Investor Relations, and I look forward to meeting you and knowing you all well. For this CMD, we have changed the presentation format to a much shorter, crisper format with very clear action plans as to how we are approaching the 2026 to 2028 business plan. 2023 to 2025, as you all know, has been a period of structural reset. Our focus is on improving and optimizing our key priorities, leaving no stone unturned, looking at the most basic processes and systems that we have and making them more efficient. This will help us prepare for the eventual upturn in the industry, so we are better placed to lead the industry, but not bank on it. Unlike previous years, we will not be presenting an industry section as it is developing as expected and was presented to you last year. After Mr. Lohia's presentation, we will have a 10-minute presentation by Diego Boeri, putting a spotlight on our Fiber business before we open the floor for questions and answers. So with that, I would like to invite Mr. Lohia to start this presentation.

Good morning. Welcome to our Annual Investor Day. I thank you for joining, especially with the many developing stories emerging from the Iran conflict. As the title speaks, navigating recovery through radical clarity, operational excellence and capital discipline. I hope to deliver a simple and straightforward earnings road map to 2028. This presentation focuses on reported earnings in Thai baht, which is fundamentally shaping our mindset towards our title of clarity, operations and discipline in numbers. The move to EBITDA -- or reported EBITDA is a foundational element of the company's new operating model. It replaces a confusing and misleading metric with one that fosters transparency, drives operational accountability and provides a true picture of the business health to all stakeholders, including earnings per share, or EPS. Next, please. I believe the strength of our business are our people and the leadership that drives our outcomes. I will discuss in detail in following slides, the core pillars of our 2026 to 2028 delivery. And I needed to acknowledge my A team here on this slide that is instrumental in driving the results. The organizational shift is a direct response to the limitations of the past. It replaces a slow, top-heavy fragmented structure with a leaner, more collaborative model where information flows more freely and decision-making is pushed closer to operations. This is designed to make the company faster, more cost effective and better aligned to execute its strategic goals. The IMC is well groomed and experienced with members that intimately know our operations deep down and perhaps the best in the industry and the one that drives us to the southwest of the chemical industry. Our vision, the southwest of chemicals, we are benchmarking ourselves against the operational gold standards of Southwest and Ryanair. We are stepping away the fat in our corporate and GCC costs to become the role model for our segments. Our promise, this is not a dream of market recovery. This is an engineered flight plan. We are resetting the 2025 base to deliver a lean, data-driven and world-class Indorama Ventures that wins in any cycle. Our leadership team with its deep segment knowledge is implementing a federated operating model. This structure empowers segments to drive profitability and predictability, while the corporate team provides support through disciplined capital allocation, cross-segment coordination and portfolio optimization. A new long-term incentive program linked to the company's share price will reward key management for improved business performance. Next, please. The journey to increase resilience. Since 2020, IVL has navigated a dynamic global landscape, marked by strategic shifts and external challenges. Our pivot in 2020 expanded the IOD business we call Indovinya today and MTBE business, strengthening our shale to PET value chain. Despite the initial shock of COVID-19, our focus on essential products and local operations enabled us to adapt through supply chain issues and the high freight costs, which persisted then. The profitability rose in '21 and '22 before declining in 2023 as the freight normalized and the widespread inventory destocking took place. The conflict in Ukraine, coupled with adjustments to quantitative easing, led to higher interest rates and soaring European energy cost. Concurrently, China's GDP slowed while its petrochemical capacity grew. In 2023, IVL 2.0 initiative was launched to address these challenges by refining our business portfolio, optimizing make-or-buy decisions and leveraging the resilience of our Indovinya and Packaging segments. The IMC is central to this strategy, driving data-based decisions, moving transactional work to GCC in India to reduce costs and enhancing HR platforms for better talent and succession planning. Our 2026 to 2028 business plan uses 2025 data as a baseline, prioritizing volume delivery and operational reliability. Key initiatives include strengthening our Packaging business and our Recycling portfolio. Next, please. Under the IVL 2.0 strategy, 90% to 95% reference signifies a clear portfolio segmentation. 95% of our portfolio is defined as core. These businesses are considered strategically important and are characterized by having established competitive advantages or moats. Within this 90% of the business is deemed especially important to keep and grow. The focus for this segment is on driving performance improvements and long-term growth. This framework provides strategic clarity, allowing the company to concentrate its resources on strengthening its most valuable assets while isolating the remaining 5% to 10% of the portfolio. For example, the Cracker, MEG, Specialty Polymers and Recycling for strategic actions such as turnarounds or divestments. Our benchmark to our closest peers for the 3 lean years of '23 to '25 puts us in favorable light. And I believe that the evolution towards 2026 to '28 delivery is not a fantasy but built on ground realities. Next, please. Integrated shale to PET business model. I would like to highlight the excellence of the U.S.-based shale to PET business. The excellence of this business stems from a significant and strategic feedstock advantage, which makes it a powerful engine for profitability, especially during periods of high crude oil prices. Here is the explanation for this excellence. The core of its excellence lies in its cost structure. The U.S. Cracker and its derivatives, EOEG, use ethane as a primary feedstock, which is derived from abundant and inexpensive U.S. shale gas. Our paraxylene production uses MTBE as a pro forma input, which we derive from, again, low cost -- low capital cost and low feedstock cost based in Texas. In contrast, global competitors, particularly in Asia and Middle East, use naphtha, a feedstock derived from crude oil. This decouples the U.S. assets production cost from global crude oil prices. While competitors' costs soar with rising crude, the U.S. business enjoys a relatively stable and low cost base, creating a massive competitive advantage. This feedstock advantage makes the business a powerful strategic asset, especially in the current environment. When crude oil prices surge, the price of end products like paraxylene and MEG is set by the high-cost naphtha producer. The U.S. business with its low production cost and import parity pricing captures a significant arbitrage of price reference leading to windfall profits. The context of highlights -- the context highlights that this strategic advantage translates into superior financial performance. The acquisition of the MTBE business as part of Spindletop was noted as a game changer for the company's shale to PET portfolio since 2020. The business generates better returns and a much superior ROCE compared to typical Asian competitors. This is achieved by having both a better profit spread and lower capital employed. In summary, the excellence of the U.S. shale to PET business is not just about its operational efficiency, but its fundamental sector advantage derived from U.S. shale gas. This allows it to be one of the lowest cost producers globally, giving it a strategic and profitable role in CPET, especially during periods of high energy price volatility. Next, please. Our 5 enterprise priorities. Looking ahead to 2028, our strategy focus on several key levers to drive performance without relying on margin expansion. We are optimizing inventory by transitioning to a daily/weekly S&OE rhythm, which is quite different from S&OP. This is expected to release an additional $400 million of inventory. I may add that the current circumstances may allow us to reduce the inventory quicker because of the freight issues and the supply chain issues that are expected to occur. We will standardize data within SAP, working with Level 3 and Level 4 personnel, to improve data quality and eliminate redundant reporting. Digital spending will be directed to support change management and data availability. A shift to reported earnings and normalized terminology will provide clearer comparison by excluding nonoperational items. A new calculator will improve visibility and control over foreign exchange impacts. We will encourage moving -- one, moving more of our cost base to the GCC, to foster collaboration and efficiency. Our 2026 to 2028 business plan uses 2025 data as a baseline, prioritizing volume delivery and operational reliability to drive COMA. Key initiatives of asset footprint optimizations being played out since 2023 will complete in the 2026 to 2028 time frame, eliminating portfolios that are structurally weak and growing segments that meet our expertise and balance sheet strengths. Next, please. Structural EBITDA improvements. We project that by maintaining 2025's historically low integrated PTA-PET margin, we can double our EBITDA from THB 32 billion to THB 64 billion by 2028. This growth is driven by optimizing our asset portfolio and improving our product mix. Projected performance by 2028 is EBITDA of THB 64 billion at 12% margin, net debt reduced by THB 68 billion, net debt-to-EBITDA below 3x and return on capital at 11%. This strategy positions IVL as a resilient and profitable leader in the chemical industry, ready to deliver significant value and strengthen our financial position. This is an important slide because IVL's strengths lie in its local-for-local manufacturing model, and it has been proven to be our most unique selling point. Our global FMCG customers can rely on us to deliver them a standardized solution across geographies without any severe impact from reliable nearshore supply chains. At the same time, the Ukraine crisis and the electrification threat, especially seen in Europe since 2022, has driven energy and aromatics cost in Europe to unsustainable levels, resulting in weak manufacturing economics in Europe. Our management has worked very prudently to ensure that we maintain our close proximity to our customers and make our businesses profitable for our shareholders. This slide captures the essence that we'll be able to service the investment we have in every region with positive free cash flow. Next, please. Those were my prepared statements. Now I'm going to add, like, each of the next few slides. The important slides were the ones that I presented. This one is even more important, but easy to understand. At the bottom of the slide, we have given the comparison of our inventory turns against 3 key peers. And what we noticed is from '23, '24 and '25, our inventory turn, using a typical standard definition, was around 4.5x. We need to enhance this turn and take it to 7x over the next 3 years. And we believe that the move to S&OE the next 12 weeks on a daily/weekly volume and value predictability will allow us to look after our inventory in a much more prudent way and not only release cash from the business, but also help us to do COMA improvements of the business. The next 12 weeks, we know what our planned turnarounds are. There could be occasions when we have unplanned turnaround in a day, on a week. With the S&OE, we would be able to quickly determine how the POD -- whether it's a North America POD, whether it's a European POD or Asian POD, how we can use our multiple sites, multiple platforms to service the customer and retain the value. This is an important slide, and this is the one that releases $400 million of inventory over and above the business plan that the segments presented. This real improving inventory management is with real-time disciplines, optimizing supply chains and integrated planning, deploying digital tools, and it also challenges slow moving and safety stocks. Next, please. Cash is very important to IVL, with its high debt. So we were very concerned on the cost of maintenance and the turnarounds of our sites. Even with the disciplined view of the next 3 years' maintenance budget, we see that in 2027, we are going to have a higher maintenance CapEx or turnaround cost. We are in the chemical business. We have 3- to 5-year turnarounds, and we need to operate our businesses in a safe and reliable way. So this is one of the areas that we would concentrate and not be cheap. We would invest in our assets to keep them operational, keep them reliable and keep them safe. Next, please. We have discussed this slide in the past. We have our portfolio optimizations. Lots of optimization impacts have taken place since 2023 to 2025. There are some more that are ongoing at the moment. Maybe Diego, when he talks about Fiber. Fiber is a spotlight today. We chose not to speak about each and every business. We wanted to leave room for Q&A as well as make a spotlight on our business and to go into more depth on that business. So for this time, is the Fiber business. So we can explain this slide going forward, but it's quite clear. All the numbers that you will see in this deck are reconciled. They are all in Thai baht reported. They take into account ForEx impacts. They take into account inventory gain loss impacts. They take into -- so it's total clarity, and they all match each other, whether you saw the 5 pillars, whether where the cash is coming from, whether it's coming from cost or it's coming from COMA or it's coming from optimization and how they all end up to become the free cash flow. So all these numbers are tallied and reconciled. Total transparency, total -- no confusion. Next, please. These are the 2 businesses that are not yielding returns. As you can see, the last 3 years have been not great. The next 3 years are looking better as per the business plan. But we have put these 2 businesses in special focus. And the head office, that means the corporate team, is helping the business teams to realize the better outcomes, hopefully, better than what is projected over here. Next, please. So this is the final slide, I believe, on the total recap of the '26 to '28 outcomes over '23 to '25 outcomes. Remember, the margins have not been -- the margins are based on 2025, not on '23 to '25, but just on '25. And as you can see, the reported EBITDA would see a healthy jump of about 40%. The OCF will see a similar improvement. Maintenance CapEx is going to be higher than the previous 3 years. Interest cost will be lower. We have taken, I believe, Ashok, 1% decrease?

U.S. dollar rate, yes.

Right. The severance and divestments will actually yield THB 7 billion positive. And this is THB 7 billion, by the way. So all these numbers are in Thai baht, just to be clear. The free cash flow before growth and dividend would double from THB 50 billion to THB 100 billion. The growth CapEx and acquisition is -- will be THB 16 billion of investment against THB 42 billion in the previous 3 years. And the dividends will grow from THB 14 billion to THB 18 billion, while leaving the net debt reduction by THB 68 billion. Next, please. Sorry, this is our final slide -- but there are 2 more slides. We are going to discuss a little bit about the Packaging business. But before that, just to complete, this is an evolution, year-by-year evolution. All numbers quite straightforward. Nothing much to explain. You can see how the net debt equity is improving over year-on-year, how the net debt to EBITDA is improving year-on-year. So let me go on to the next slide, just to complete. We are taking packaging as a huge opportunity. Our strength lies in operating headquarters. We are based in Asia, low cost. We play in Asia, Middle East, Africa. These are the areas which are growing more rapidly than the West. We feel that we face local competition, mom-and-pop competition. And with our global relationship with the FMCG brands, we do have a goodwill, and we can, with our scale, deliver competitively to the packaging sector, using scale as a lever, using good equipment supplier relationships as a lever, using local for local as a lever and finally, our business model that allows us to have our manufacturing or our packaging needs very near to our feedstock. So we can co-locate our Packaging business to our PET business where possible. Next, please. So this is basically Indovida, geographic depth in growth regions, structural cost advantage, embedded customer partnerships and structural capital efficiency. Thank you. So with that, I would like to pass on to Mr. Diego Boeri to talk us through the Fiber segment. Thank you.

Good morning. Good morning, everybody. I'm Diego Boeri. I'm the Executive President of the Fiber business. The Fiber business, you have heard our presentation in the last couple of Capital Market Day. Our business is leaner and more resilient than it was 1 or even 2 years ago. That's not because the market we operate have improved, not because we have had a tailwind from the market, but because of -- we made a lot of deliberate choices on portfolio, footprint, cost and capital. Our plan is not assuming any macro recovery of our industry. It does not rely on any tailwinds. It relies on a lot of choices and action that we're doing in our portfolio, footprint, cost structure and capital. That's why we call it the self-help plan. Next slide. The -- before talking about the future, it's very important that we anchor on what we have done, what we have accomplished in the last couple of years. You will remember, I presented myself our transformation plan in around March 2024, and since then, in the last 2 years, we have reduced fixed cost by $45 million net, with absorbing an inflation and currency impact of $42 million. This has exceeded our original target of cutting fixed cost by 10%. So we have done that. On the asset rationalization front, we have rationalized the assets in Thailand in Nakhon Pathom and also in Wellman. They were producing mechanical recycled fibers. We have signed an agreement to divest our business in Brazil. And this Monday, we have announced that we are starting a process to sell or close our factory in France in Longlaville that produce material for the tire industry. So we've been very busy in rationalizing our asset footprint. We reduced net working capital by $137 million, which is a 16 days improvement overall. The single biggest driver of inventory, you heard it from Mr. Lohia, which has given us an additional challenge, was really driving down the inventory, become much more efficient in our -- in how we run the business. And all of this has been possible because of our new operating model, which changed the way we manage the business. Our new functional model is in place. So before we used to run the business like a federation of many different entities that we have acquired. Now we have an integrated business. We have harmonized the compensation of our top 200 managers around the world to make sure they're all aligned to the goals of the business. And we have also invested to improve in our digital journey, and we are really leading on the transition to our global competency center. You saw the video at the beginning of this presentation. All of these are the major structural changes, reform we have done that, frankly, has enabled all the work we have done. Without this work, we could have not accomplished the results we have -- I just talked about. Next slide. So these actions make us more resilient. But certainly, we're operating in a tough market. And our top line is certainly is not helping us for 3 major reasons. We have a structural pressure from China. There is a huge overcapacity. This is real and persistent. This, our high-value products in our portfolio, we make many different products, are not insulated anymore, so there is much more exposure from China. The business in Europe, I was talking to some of you before, is the one which is under the biggest competitive pressure. It's less protected by tariff and duty. And we used to make $50 million EBITDA in Europe, and the EBITDA in Europe is reduced by 70%. So a lot of the action you're going to hear about are centered in Europe, which is the region we're taking care. And also, the portfolio itself is very -- is large, is resilient, is large and relevant, but it is also starting to mature. We are in daily necessity, like cars, diapers, apparels, so very relevant pieces of business. But a few bright -- apart from some applications, there are still where we still have very little competition. The rest is in the market. There's a lot of competition on most of our products. So we have to renew our portfolio. We have to come up and focus on the area where we are more differentiated, and we have to invest in -- we also to have invest in some new innovation, which I will cover in a minute. A few quick information about our markets. It's a very differentiated picture. You shouldn't think of fiber as one monolith that is all the same, right? We are operating in mobility. It had a record performance in 2024 and now is under pressure. Light vehicle and replacement tires in our major markets are kind of flattish, right? There is growth in China, but we don't have a big domestic business in China. China itself has added 25% capacity for tire cord fabric. They had 25%. That, we feel it. The world feels it. That means our volume in Europe are under pressure. Our margins are under pressure. And also the business, the domestic business we had in China, which is roughly 10% of what we were doing, has basically very little margin left, right? That's the biggest issue. Lifestyle is the textile, apparel business. This is a different story. It's a differentiated and defended. The volume are stable, but margins are under pressure. China stopped adding capacity in this more commoditized part of the business, stabilize the spreads, the margin. Our focus is improving the domestic mix and proximity to the customer. We are -- we have invested in textile-to-textile recycling, which is something that will take a lot of visibility in the next few years as the world, particularly Europe wants to recycle textile more. And that is the -- and then we are pursuing very aggressively make versus buy model. Can we sell products made by other people and make money because we are a bigger global players? We have a very interesting business model emerging from this China overcapacity situations. Nonwovens, which go mostly in hygiene, diapers, to be simple. The picture there is much better. I think the biggest part of our business in the U.S.. The demand is quite strong. The other parts of the region, they are also quite exposed. But our main focus is on the U.S. And finally, Nonwoven Fibers is a turnaround story. We are reshaping the portfolio and the supply. Volumes are down. Customers are going for cheaper options, putting margin under pressure. We are still improving margin for a number of reasons. We have been able to renegotiate raw materials. We are rebalancing the portfolio, focusing more on construction application, more durable goods, things. So we have done a lot of focus. And then we are moving some of our products to more competitive. So a lot of work there to keep the franchise profitable and afloat. To conclude, we are facing different market conditions in each segment, and we are taking action accordingly. It's not one business. It's many -- it's 4 different segments that have 4 different strategies. Next one. When you're looking at the full portfolio of Fibers, this is the key chart, right? We did a complete portfolio analysis, and we have assessed all our businesses on 2 dimensions: financial return, return on net assets; and also industry attractiveness and created 4 different category: invest, protect, fix and divest. So we don't have one business, but we have at least 4 differentiated positions that we will manage very differently. If you start with invest, this is 17% of the Fibers revenue, but contributes to 50% of EBITDA. This is where the capital investment matters. This is where we're going to continue to grow and invest. And I'll give you a glimpse of where we are investing for protecting this top part of our business. We have then a part of the portfolio, which we call protect, 43% of revenue, almost 50% of EBITDA. It's a stable EBITDA. Returns are modest. I think, here, we want to defend share, improve the mix and select upgrade competitiveness in this part of the portfolio. Then we start to go in the area where we are taking most of the action. In the fix part, we have 20% of revenue. We only have 24% of our EBITDA, very little EBITDA margin. We call it Lights On. We have to focus on strict cash discipline, don't waste capital in these businesses and trying to do improvement plans that are very specifically time bounds, right? And finally, the divest part, there is 20% of revenue, with negative EBITDA. We're going to act with a lot of energy on those parts of the business, and you will see they are part of our restructuring plan. So these are -- these portfolio actions are central to our plan. The capital allocation is very rigorous and follows this portfolio segmentation that we have done. So now let's go on what is that we're planning to do. We are executing 6 asset rationalizations in the next 2 years. It's a lot of work. It's difficult. It's mostly in Europe, so it's not easy to do those actions. We have a very seasoned team that is doing that. It's a big piece of work. We also are busy with 2 divestitures, which are in very advanced stages. Those assets are uncompetitive, cash negative, and exiting them is essential to improve the overall portfolio. We're going to reduce 2,150 headcount, almost $160 million in net fixed cost reduction, and this will uplift the EBITDA by $53 million. We are self-funding this. We're not going to Mr. Roy asking for money to do this. The business will generate the cash to do all the severances and the restructuring. So that's why we call it a self-help. After having paid $145 million of closure cost, we still generate $110 million of free cash flow from this action in the period that we're talking about, 2026 and 2028. Next slide. Now let's talk a bit about growth. I mean, so far, we are talking about what we're doing to put the house in order, to the portfolio in order to focus on the things that generate value for the company. Where are we investing? We talked about we're focusing our capital and execution on 3 areas. The growth investment is the first thing. These are applications where we have a unique position that is more difficult to attack from competition or where we don't have yet that kind of high competitive pressure. We are investing about $140 million of CapEx to generate $26 million of EBITDA, with nearly 90% of the CapEx is already being spent. So we only have the tail of the spend in this current business plan. Then we have done a full cleanup of our innovation pipeline. We are moving away from commoditized product for our growth investment. And we have now 32 active projects, which will give $45 million of COMA -- additional COMA, additional earnings by 2028. across a number of applications. We want to make this pipeline much bigger. So we have reorganized our R&D to deliver more projects, more pipeline. But this -- the ones that we have are pretty clean. And finally, sustainability investment. We have a vocation to lead from the front in this space. We have announced that we have bought 10% of Jiaren. We made a kind of a strategic option play to be a leader in the chemical recycle of textile. That's an affordable action that we have done that will give us a leading position in this space. As it grows, we will be there to capitalize. And also, we have a lot of projects in sustainable products, particularly in the tire industry and in the textile industry. So this is not big right now. We are not counting a lot on this, but at least $50 million extra earnings will come by 2028. So those are the growth initiatives. We can now move on and talk about cash. Cash is king for Fibers, even more than for the other brother and sister businesses. Apart from improving the earnings, we maintain our focus on reducing and optimizing working capital. We have done very well. We have reduced $136 million, the net working capital. First, we have done it reducing the excess across the organization. And the next phase is more structural, putting in place rule mechanisms so that it becomes a little bit easier to manage it. We are redesigning, completing our S&OE plan, making sure that our teams in this very large business are very much on it every day, every week and not only every month. And we have to do that before moving to IBP, integrated business planning. And that will further tighten our execution across the supply chain. On the CapEx front, we have already reduced our CapEx intensity in '24, '25. 90% of the CapEx for growth has already been spent. Maintenance has also been put under tight management. So I think we've done a good job there kind of keeping a super tight control. And also don't waste CapEx, don't put it in assets that are not generated returns. So every project goes through a very tight discipline. So we're very proud of that. Next. So now let's see how we're going to be making money in this business with all these actions. We walk through what is changing. Here's how we -- enterprise will make money. The journey is very clear, from the chart on the left, 2024 marked the start of the turnaround. While the period for 2026 demonstrates improving resilience despite continued market pressure, by 2028, the outcome is structurally leaner, a higher return Fiber portfolio. Our COMA is declining because we're taking out all these assets. We are selling or closing some of these assets. The COMA is coming down, but the cost is coming down faster. So at the end, that's why the whole philosophy of this plan is self-help, right? We are not counting of some tailwinds, some good stories, some things that will lift up the business. But we -- basically, we're going to lose some COMA, but we're going to cut aggressively the cost and improve -- whatever is going to be left will be a healthier, more performing, more sustainable business going forward. And then the growth and the investment we put on top will lifted up further. We are confident about the improved performance going forward. This is driven by portfolio, ramp-up of growth investment, cost optimization and strong cost and cash discipline. This is absolutely critical. We have now a more performing machine, a better team that is really -- has done 2 years of very hard work. So I feel quite confident about them. And now, my last chart, we used to have this business run as 3 business units, then we put them together to find the synergy, to reduce cost, to become more leaner, to find more synergies within our business. This gives us the scale, but it's also mask real value. I mean the opportunity is to move from a single-blended story to a clearer, purer platform where strategic logic, synergies and multiples are better understood by the market. We see an opportunity to unlock up to $300 million of increased enterprise value through targeted portfolio action that sits above the current plan. So this is a bit like how do we see the future? Where are we going next? We're going to restructure and reorganize, make the business in a much solid and sustainable pace. What's next? This is -- this chart is -- we cannot put all the names of all the activities we are doing. But conceptually -- the first thing, we are exploring option to merge with industry peers to find more synergy and scale economics and enable a valuation re-rating over time. I think we have a very active projects in this area. We are also looking at acquiring capital deployment. We remain selective, focused on structurally advantaged region and differentiated capability, the strengthen portfolio. There are areas of the world where some of our businesses are in very good health. We can get better there. We can pivot the business there. That's our second strategy. And the third one is divest. We will exit commoditized and noncore assets where the returns are structurally below expectation, unlocking trapped capital and accelerating our transition toward a more asset-light model. Those are the 3 big strategy for the future. I'm spending personally quite a lot of time on the 3 of them. Together, these actions complement our ongoing transformation and represent the next phase of value creation for Fiber. So that's kind of the quick summary of what we're doing in Fiber. Thanks a lot.

Thank you, Diego, for your presentation and Mr. Lohia. I think we can open up the floor to questions. We will have some participants that will be joining us online and posting questions online, which I -- we'll be monitoring.

Thank you, Mr. Lohia and the team for a thorough presentation. I got a few questions from myself. Number one is the -- can you add more color on the EOEG turnaround that you put on the chart, seem to be a bold move, expecting you to turn from a negative THB 2.5 billion to a positive THB 1 billion. And what happened there in last year? Is the shale gas advantage or the shale gas spread has been lost and you expect that to return? And what is the impact of the war on this MEG? Would it help in terms of the shale gas advantage? And the second question is that can you untangle the impact of the war on the PET? On one hand, we've seen refiners going to cut run that will spike up the PX prices. Would you think that you'll be able to pass that on to end users, so the margin will be preserved? And the other question is the -- have you seen the tight freight logistics market on the 30 tankers split that into container, which will impact your West market? Or how many in terms of percentage or tonnage of the PET that is not on the fixed cost which could be impacted by that, either positive or negative?

Komsun, how many questions are you asking?

Sorry.

Okay. You may have to remind me what all you asked. Okay. Let me start. Can you put the EOEG slide, please? Essentially, the story of our Cracker and MEG is not about margins itself only. The stories are about our reliability of volume. We haven't been producing to capacity. We have our captive needs. We are buying MEG rather than making it. Cracker margins are down last year, but I think those -- that's cyclical. But I think in our commodity business, in any commodity business, if you cannot produce the volumes to capacity, then you cannot earn the right to operate it or make money in it. So I think the major problem for us in the Cracker and EG business is the ability to operate those plants reliably. The way we have structured our Olefins business is that we acquired Spindletop because they have a cracker in Port Neches. They have an EOEG business as well. And they have been -- they are the -- actually, they are the producers of our IC business. They are the guys who are responsible for the manufacturing of this site. So there has been now a special project called Project Rebound, where we are collaborating together with the corporate, with the CPET team and with Indovinya team and trying to go deep into why we cannot reliably operate these sites. Remember, our Clear Lake EOEG site, we've owned it since 2011. And it paid us -- we paid $700-something million for that, and it paid us back in 6 years. So it was a great asset. Recently, we haven't been operating it that well, and we need to fix that, and we will fix it. So the radical clarity is that it needs to get fixed. It will get fixed by hook or crook. There is some opportunities in EG because if from the U.S. we can get duty-free imports into India under the trade deal -- I don't know where the trade deal is at the moment with the Supreme Court issues. But in case we get duty-free access to India, then I believe we will have -- or let's say, North America, which is surplus in EG, would have an advantage as an industry. So that should benefit the EG industry in North America. So I think those are the 2 main things that we need to focus on to improve the health of the MEG. When it comes to the recent war, and this applies to all our businesses and the sailing lines and the sailing links and sailing lanes. I think this is where our local-for-local model really benefits. So this slide, which is on the screen now is a little bit different from the slide that you saw in the main deck. Over here, we have incorporated the crude oil prices. And as you see, our reported EBITDA moves very strongly with crude oil. As crude oil dipped in 2020 to $42, so did our earnings. As it peaked $200 in '22, we had our peak earnings. Currently at $68 in 2025, we again had a trough earnings. And we have built our model at $70 in the business plan. So it's obvious that we will have a short-term advantage from the movement of crude in this year. There are -- so there are short-term advantages. There are 3 advantages that one can get from this crude movement. And there are also 3 negatives that may -- if we don't play the S&OE properly or keenly, we may lose that benefit. We may gain it in a quarter or 2, and then we may give it up in future quarters. Let me explain that a bit more. So a surge in crude oil prices would likely be a net positive for our short-term reported earnings, but it comes with significant risks and complexities. Here's a breakdown of why. Inventory valuation gains. This is most significant positive impact. Our existing inventory of raw materials and finished goods was acquired at a lower cost. Therefore, we will get the advantage from here. Margin expansion on sales, we can increase the selling prices because of our local-for-local markets. And with -- I believe the container freights have already gone up by 30%. So we are pricing our products in Europe and in North America or in Brazil based on import parity. Freights play an important element, so does tariff. But freights are going up. Like I said, we believe it's 30% up in the last couple of days. We -- our business is keenly keeping an eye on that and making sure that we can price our finished goods to take advantage of this import parity. So basically, the local-for-local moat gives us a huge advantage, and we can benefit from this crude oil surge as well as the freight surge. And the delays is going to take longer for imported goods to arrive in Europe because they may have to go through Cape of Good Hope. But these are not -- there are negatives to this. The lag, we do have contracted sales. And therefore, how we manage those contracted sales, can we put a surcharge because of -- Europe is going to get really hit on energy cost. So can we put a war surcharge? Can you put a utility surcharge? Can we put something on that? So that will, again, depth management of contracts is very keen. So the last 3 days, the teams have been very busy deciphering what they can do. There will be increased working capital. So over the year, maybe it will ease back to where we are today. But for the time being, as we buy new products at elevated cost, we'll have to fund it. And the biggest risk could be a demand-destruction risk if inflation is too high. We believe we are in essential goods. So we have not seen much of a demand disruption. We have seen more inventory pipeline destocking/restocking type of -- but final consumer demand for our products have been resilient, in my opinion. So I think the risks are there. But again, S&OE is something that I'm very much -- I believe that, that is a pivot, which was in the play. And I think that pivot is going to support us going forward. So I covered MEG, I covered the crude oil in various aspects. What else, Komsun, did you need to ask, that I could not cover?

I think you covered it all. I'll let others ask.

I have like 2 questions. The first one, that, I saw some chemical -- global petrochemical company that announced the force majeure. So what do you think on this one? Are you going to have a plan to do that? And what is your current feedstock level that can supply? Until how many days? Yes, that's it.

I think we planted this question because all of this is very good to us. We have no FMs. Our businesses in Europe are supplied locally. Our businesses in North America and Americas is supplied locally, and they are not impacted by the issue of crude or gas. We are a downstream player in Asia. Therefore, our paraxylene or other raw materials come from within the country where we are, whether it's India, Indonesia or Thailand or China. So we don't -- we will get the increase in cost as it passes through, but that's a pass-through mechanism for IVL. So no FMs anticipated. We do have a recent, last 2 days, story that our PET plant in Poland had to go down for an unplanned shutdown. So we won't be able to capitalize on this shortage fully in Europe. But apart from that, we are fine. So as far as our inventory goes, can you put the inventory slide? We have a lot of inventory. We have too much inventory. We are going to cut down inventory. We are going to destock. We are going to encash. So no worries on the supply side, raw material side or finished goods side. We have enough.

Naphat from CLSA. I have 2 specific questions. First is on the U.S. operations because I know that U.S. is self-sufficient in terms of feedstock. And we -- and the other 2 PET producers are the major 3 producers of PET . And given with the higher feed cost now, so I wonder how much we -- in terms of gain or loss for the U.S. operations that we will be getting because U.S. is a net import of PET . And with the freight cost at the moment, I doubt that -- this will likely push up the PET prices in U.S., and we stand to benefit on this rising freight cost. Yes, that is on -- my first question is on the U.S. operations. Second one is on the TTF gas price in Europe. How -- have we been hedging on the TTF gas price? And if yes, so with the double cost of the TTF gas price now, so are we -- can we pass on this additional cost on the Europe operations?

Thank you, Naphat. So on the U.S., on the PET and the import parity and North America being short of PET, yes, so that's -- I think it's natural. It all depends on how long this Iran conflict continues. Because we have seen freight rates go up to insane levels during COVID and when we have had the supply chain disruptions in the past. They are now at the moment back to where they used to be pre-COVID levels. And as I said, I believe that they have gone up by above 30% in the last 2 days. So all of that is good news for our U.S. manufacturing. We are a local company over there. We have all our feedstocks. We are a fully integrated shale to PET company in the U.S. So obviously, my team in the U.S. is going to ensure that we don't leave any -- I mean, we serve our customers well, but at the same time, we serve our shareholders from these circumstances. So no worries over there. I can't quantify the value. And I just want to have radical clarity. Let's not give a number that I'm not able to guarantee. I can't guarantee anything. It's all future related, but I've gone through a lot of deep sensing into all the numbers that we have presented today. So just give us a few more weeks. Let's see where the war settles. If the Hormuz Strait opens up, if the U.S. can protect the waters, if the freights -- so let's see where it goes. If it's going to be a protracted war, if it lasts for 2 months, 3 months, all hell is going to break loose. So let's not over-imagine or over-engineering it. We'll see where it goes. The TTF gas, yes, we do have a hedging policy. We -- I just asked Diego, the Fiber hedges 50% of its TTF. So I know it, for this side -- Ashok or Muthu, do we know what is your PET? So PET -- so we have 2 businesses. We have PET business and we have Fiber business in Europe. And the business owners are confirming that they have 50% hedge. Thank you.

Maybe I will add one more question on the deleveraging plan that we were planning for last year. And I think what is the status of the deleveraging plans now? Are we on the deleveraging, on the asset sales and also the IPO of the Surfactant and also Packaging, yes.

I understand. Yes. So basically, we have put on hold both the Indovida, the Packaging business IPO and Indovinya, the Surfactant business IPO for obvious reasons. The U.S. market, the public markets are not industrial business friendly as yet. And we have seen that the peers of Indovinya, their multiples have come down. For us to go and do an IPO in this circumstance is not needed, not accretive to IVL. We will remain 100% owners of Indovinya. We will not share our benefits till the market gives us a premium. So no issues. It doesn't impact our deleveraging plan. It does delay it, as you can see on this slide, maybe there's a slide where we show the multiples. So we do deleverage by THB 68 billion, but can you move to the slide where it's 2.7x net debt to EBITDA, right. So as you can see, we actually -- our 2027 plan in previous year CMD was to get to around 3x in 2027. This one, the plan that we have presented today, and I mentioned to you that I've personally gone through this plan in much more detail than I have in the past. And these are the numbers that I see. And these are all -- as you heard from Diego, like in the Fiber business, each segment has had to go with the tooth and comb to understand what they are doing, and they're not overpromising and underdelivering. So irrespective -- I think we're going to own our businesses. We are not going to IPO in the U.S., at least till the markets really give us a substantial premium. I believe that this performance that we deliver in Thailand would make us regionally outperformer. And that itself may fetch us a premium that the U.S. may not match. Thank you.

Just a follow-up question on this deleveraging. So meaning that we will -- so we put on hold on the IPO of Indovinya and Indovida businesses. And on the net debt to EBITDA, that just show on the screen, so will be coming from -- the decline is coming from the operational improvement...

So let's go to the 5 pillar slide. So this gives you all the breakup. Cost year-by-year, COMA year-by-year, inventory, cash year-by-year and portfolio reorg year-by-year. This is all reconciled, no fluff, no mismatch, no this and that. This is how we'll get there.

We have a question online from Shubham Sehgal of SIMPL. This is quite related to what you just mentioned about the spin-offs and IPOs. But the question is specifically relating to IPO of Indovida segment. And if we could highlight the debt or net debt position of Indovinya specifically?

No, we don't do that, and there's no need for that. See, we operate as IVL, as Indorama Ventures. And up to EBITDA level, we maintain our transparency below EBITDA when it comes to capital allocation. It gets more difficult for us to segregate. So at the moment, we are going to stick to the presentation that we have in hand.

Mayank Maheshwari from Morgan Stanley has raised his hand for questions. Mayank, please go ahead.

So sir, I had 2 questions. One was in terms of the portfolio reorg, you're talking about around $400-plus million in terms of free cash flow coming in there. Can you throw a bit of light on that, of what divestments on nonstrategic businesses you're thinking about? And the second question was in terms of the targets that you rightly said kind of put out now, how much is the, I would say, management incentives aligned to that? And what have you done at your level to kind of make sure that the incentives work to get to your targets?

Thanks, Mayank. On the divestment, there is one divestment in Brazil that was signed and that will get delivered. Diego, you mentioned two.

March. End of March.

End of March. This month.

What was the other one?

Then we have a manufacturing joint venture in Asia that we're dealing with. Then we're working on one in Europe in the Lifestyle business. So those are three active. One is basically done and two are in very much advanced stage for Fibers.

Yes. And essentially, what we have not quantified over here, but we have $300 billion of property sales coming from the assets that have got closed down. So we have Canada, we have Rotterdam, we have Australia, we have one in Indonesia. We have TPT, I think it was announced this week in Rayong. So we have $300 million of divestment revenue coming from property sales. Going to the incentive or linking the incentive to the management. In the past, our long-term incentive plan was based on fixed KPIs. It is still based on certain KPIs, but the payout is linked to our share price. So we are going to -- we have already rolled it out to our key management. There are 38 key management personnel who will be part of this LTI, but the payout will be at the end of 3 years. So depending on where the management can drive its performance and showcase itself to the investors and what value the investors can show or give us based on where our share price would be in 3 years' time. So that's a straight alignment with shareholder value. I hope that answers your question.

Perfect. Yes, very clear.

It's all about radical alignment, radical clarity, transparency, open communication, collaboration.

This is Rohit from SMBC. I have one question. I think in Diego's presentation, he mentioned about merge being one of the planks in the Europe strategy. Given the current sort of environment, do you think this may get pushed back because of the current uncertainty in the market? Or do you think it's on track?

Yes. No. Good question. No, it was not for Europe. It's a global merge. So we're looking at players that could give us even more footprint in Asia so that we can synergize more by the shutdowns of the closures that we're going to do in Europe. That's kind of -- it's not a European thing. It's a global thing. We have focused on having more Asian footprint, lower cost, more competitive so that when we divest or close the factories in the West, we recover more COMA because if you don't -- the math is very simple. If you don't recover at least 50% of the COMA, these asset shutdowns become prohibitive in terms of payback. So you need to have a place where to put these materials competitively. So that's the strategy. It's not a European thing.

Just one more question. China, of course, has been the big sort of impact globally for petchem and other sectors. How much of the cost benefit derived from their access to not just cheaper cost of capital, but also to cheaper feedstock? I mean there were news that in the past, they were able to get some sweetheart deals from -- on their feedstock from, let's say, Iran or Venezuela in the past. And now with all this going on, do you think that benefit may reduce a little bit? I mean I know that's a little broader question but just curious.

I can share my opinion on that. I think it wasn't feedstock advantage because China still has to import its energy. So they may be buying it a bit cheaper. India may have bought it a bit cheaper. But overall, I don't think that was the most advantageous position they had. The most advantageous position they had was the crude to chemical complexes. There are 5 huge crude to chemical complexes. We know this company, Reliance in India, who talks a lot about the Jamnagar. There are like a few Jamnagars in China, and they all are super competitive, all new, all state-of-art. And since electrification, people have moved -- the refineries are moving more towards chemical production than gasoline production. So those big investments rapidly done over the last 5 years, that was putting the additional pressure on the margins. At the same time, the U.S. shale gas advantage was also taken advantage of by the U.S. olefin companies. So there was a lot of capacity put up in the U.S. as well to serve China. Now as China gets self-sufficient, it is creating this overcapacity globally, and therefore, the margins were low. Now it's going to take some years for that capacity to get used up in the system. Temporarily, now because of the freights, because of the naphtha or the crude and the gas, LNG supplies from Middle East to Asia, we'll see where that goes. So there may be for a short time, again, not knowing how long this thing will last, but at least for the next month or 2, there will be more prudence on the energy stockpile, on the energy reserves that India has, China has. So I think it will improve the margins for a short time, but we have to be very prudent. We can't land up paying high for the raw material in this next month or 2 and then getting stuck with that inventory when the margins go back to normal or the current normal. So this S&OE is very, very important to get operational excellence and not land up with high-value raw materials. I think this is a perfect opportunity for us to destock.

I have 2 questions. The first question regarding the PET outlook. Could you provide an update on demand/supply dynamic? And what is the reason of the spread rebound in the first quarter? Do you think this is sustainable? And my second question is regarding the West PET contract for this year. Is it -- have you locked in? And is it much higher compared to last year?

Why did the spreads improve in the last 2 months? Well, I can tell you I was not told about it in advance. So it was a surprise to me. I think it was more to do with some capacity. I believe some people say that because there was China New Year coming up, so there was some inventory positioning taking place in China. So there were no demand-led reasons for the increase in the spread in the last 2 months. I think as new capacities in PET are not coming up as rampantly as they did in the last couple of years, is one of the reasons why the competition has been less severe. Also, the margins in the integrated PET, the PTA-PET integrated margin of $160 is still not anywhere near where it needed to be. Can you put the slide on the margins and the business plan, the journey? Can we move quickly with the questions, please? So as you can see, the -- this is only -- this is -- yes, this is the integrated PTA-PET margin. And this $160 is the low of 2023, where we are used to $200-plus in the past. So I mean, we are nowhere near where we would be one day, I don't know when but one day. But at the moment, we are saying, "Okay, irrespective of that, what can we do as a local-to-local company? What is our USP? What is our strength? Why are we the world's leading PET producer?" And I think this presentation today or the next 3 years tells you that we have a lot of levers internally that we are going to all use our muscles to get to. We just have to get more reliability into our operations. So Yash Lohia, he was there visiting sites. I was there visiting sites. We have encouraged all our leaders to go visit the sites, spend time with the sites, site managers, understand from them what we need to do to help them. We are a manufacturing company, and our DNA has to be manufacturing. If we can't manufacture well, then we have no right to be in this business. Sorry, what was your other question? So that's on the margin on the last 2 months.

West PET margin for 2026, the new contract price?

In the U.S.?

Yes.

I would rather not say because I'm telling my PET guys that there's a war going on. So work with your customers, you can't -- we are not making money in the business. We don't have the liberty to pass around gifts. So we are going to work on that. We have inventories. So I need to make sure that my net -- I benefit in net from the situation. So I'm not going to give it away. So I would rather not answer that question. I'll let you judge it in quarter 1 and quarter 2 results. I hope they will demonstrate much healthier than this base of $120. Obviously, this is Asia reference price. But I do expect quarter 1, quarter 2 to benefit from what we are seeing. Again, don't take me wrong. Again, I'm not being -- I may not be being sensitive to the war, but I'm being sensitive to IVL that this is something that I can't give my inventory advantage. I can't lose that. I will not lose that. That's my point.

This is Kaushal from Macquarie Securities. Just 3 questions on my end. The first question is, I know a big sort of uplift on the free cash flow is from your inventory optimization. Could you share a little more color in terms of what are the assumptions that are driving this big unlock? And with the latest sort of conflict that's happening, how does this sort of affect your equation in terms of this -- the focus on inventory unlock? The second question is on the recycling margin assumptions, the rPET . So I see a big sort of jump from negative 6% to 10% going forward. Just wanted to get a better sense of what is driving this sort of a big uplift. And my last question is on the CapEx side. So I recognize that you're reducing your CapEx going forward. What are some of the peers doing as well? And is there any risk of any capability gaps if you reduce CapEx right now?

Thanks, Kaushal. No, CapEx -- as I said, our CapEx spend on maintenance and turnarounds over the next 3 years is higher than in the last 3 years. While -- and we have been careful in the last 3 years as well. So I think -- and I said earlier, we are a manufacturing company. We are not going to cut down on our needs or proper needs on investments in our manufacturing. So we are going to continue with that. That is the most sustainable part, even more sustainable than sustainability itself. So we are going to invest the rightfully to make sure that our plants can operate reliably and safely. So no issues on CapEx. Coming to recycling, that's a very interesting point, and I did not emphasize it enough, the negative 3% -- or what was it, negative 6% to a positive 10% is one arm of the recycling. But in the bottom right, there is something called SPS. And this SPS is a single pallet solution. We are one of the few producers in the world who puts flakes into our continuous polarization. So we can give a blended recycled PET to our customers, with 70% virgin and 30% recycled content, all in one piece, fully homogenized. That means a converter can take my pallet. He doesn't need to have 2 silos. He puts it in his husky and gets the preform that he needs. We are one of the very few producers who can do this. And this is an area that our PET folks have been challenged. This is operating at 30%, 35% rate. We need to take this to 100%. As we take our SPS to 100% utilization or near 100% utilization, it will pull in flakes from the recycling, which will improve the recycling itself and the harmonized SPS product, we need to make our brand owners, the Coke, Pepsi, Nestlé aware of this important pellet that we have, which can save energy, can save time, make it more straightforward in the converters facility. And we then don't compete with the converters themselves who have their own rPET solutions. Because if somebody buys my virgin PET, puts his rPET and not my rPET, then I still only get part of the business. If I can sell my SPS, then I get both my streams operating fully. So that's on SPS. So that's a big, big, big reason why I believe that, that business can improve. We have again put recycling under a new separate management. Separate means under CPET, but we have a dedicated CEO, CFO, CMTO. We've given a manufacturing guy, Puneet, great guy. We have brought Pankaj from India, a PET guy. So we are making that -- making sure that each POD has a dedicated management, and we are making them accountable for delivery. And these are business plans by them. These are not business plans that corporate has played with or -- so full clarity on accountability. What was the third question?

Inventory unlock.

The inventory unlock is -- I mean, what more clarity can I give? My peers are at 9 turns, 8 turns, 7 turns. Why am I at 4 turns? So we are going deep into that and saying that, okay, we can understand if you are an HVA specialty, you may have 5 turns. But if you are a commodity, you should be having 10 turns. And the bulk of our portfolio is commodity. So we are getting more deeper into this subject.

Yes. I have some questions. Based on the presentation, we saw that your EBITDA has gone down so much in 2025 and impact for about the high net debt to EBITDA. So based on the projection, I think it's quite challenging for year 2028 to be THB 64 billion. So we have some concern for this year, 2026, that you will make it down for net EBITDA to 4.7x. So this projection is before the Middle East attack crisis? And if this event is worsened, do you have revised for the projection or not? And how you review for your liability side if your EBITDA is not meet the target? The second, we saw about how you make your cost on the good shape lies the cost and portfolio reorganization. So we would like to have more detail because of -- we think that's one that is -- maybe takes time and also that maybe they have any situation happened for -- about that you -- uncontrollable. So you have a second plan or not to maintain your EBITDA in year 2028 to be the same at the projection or you need to revise again in this year?

Yes, very deep questions. And let me reflect. We are in the weakest ever period for chemical industry that I have in my 40 years of experience never seen. And I think I'm older than most of you in the room here. So I don't think any of you have seen this either. And therefore, we have taken a lot of time to understand our moats. So I think if you go to the moats, if you go to the IVL 2.0, that slide better explains. So this is a slide which gives me comfort on the '23 to '25 period, which was the leanest period, as you saw from the first slide where we had the 2018 to 2028 numbers. So the last 3 years have not been great. We had THB 84 billion, I think, in '22. And as you can see, the last 3 years, our average reported EBITDA is, what, THB 40 billion. And it was half of the '22 peak. So that is my comfort that I look at those numbers, I look at all the operational excellence stuff, all the asset footprint optimizations, all the cash that we can recover from the divestments, all the fixed cost savings that we are getting from removing the structurally weak assets that we had in our portfolio in 2022. So I think we were one of the companies who recognized the structural changes that were happening to the industry, with -- since the Ukraine war, since the energy crisis in Europe. And we have taken very -- we have taken steps. We have not been shy of taking steps as most of you will recognize. So we have dealt with 90% of the bad assets that we had in our portfolio. So the remainder assets, and as Diego mentioned in his presentation, we are well up to speed on taking care of the remainder of the portfolio. And as you can see over here, 90% to 95% of our portfolio is our moat. And we -- in this period, going back to the net debt EBITDA slide or net debt equity slide, we had 1.8x net debt equity in 2024, and we could retain it at 1.8x in 2025. So 2025 was the deepest recession for our industry, if one might say so. And therefore, going forward. Yes, all these plans were made before we know what happened in Iran in the last couple of days. This plan was not built on any anticipation of any wars anywhere in the world. We were hoping for a calmer, quieter world. What I hope I've been able to convey in this message today is that the war may not be good in general, especially for the people who are impacted by it. But for IVL, it's a net positive in the sense of the impact coming from energy crisis or the impact coming from freight crisis or the impact coming from supply chain crisis because our local-for-local model has -- is a unique selling point or the unique -- that's our competitive advantage. And we are the only ones in the world who have the shale to PET advantage. So I think all the moats that we have, I'm sufficiently comfortable that we will be able to deliver on this plan that we have in front of you. And I didn't want to complicate it with adjusted and core. You're going to get what you're going to get. You're going to get what is reported. And then we will normalize it with onetime impairments. We'll normalize it with any asset sale. We'll normalize it for things that are not transactional. But for me and for my management, margins go up and down, crude oil price goes up and down, freight rates go up and down, deal with it. Sh** happens, deal with it.

There are no more questions online. If there are any last questions in the room? Thank you very much. I think we can close the session for today.

Thank you.