Indraprastha Gas Limited ($IGL)

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Indraprastha Gas Limited Q4 FY '26 Earnings Conference Call hosted by ICICI Securities Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Probal Sen from ICICI Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, [ Neda ]. Good afternoon, everyone. I would like to welcome everyone for making the time to attend this call, and we'd like to welcome the senior management who have made the time to do this post call. The format will be similar to what is normally done. We will listen to management for their opening remarks, and then we would have an interactive Q&A session. We have with the senior members of the management of IGL, including Mr. Kamal Kishore Chatiwal, the MD; Mr. Mohit Bhatia, the Director Commercial; Mr. Sanjay Kumar, the CFO; and Mr. Manjeet Singh, the VP Finance. Without further ado, I'd like to hand over to the management for their opening remarks. Sir, over to you.

A very good afternoon to all of you. I'm Kamal Kishore Chatiwal, Managing Director, Indraprastha Gas Limited. And on behalf of the management, I take pleasure to welcome you all for our earnings call on the financial results of FY '25, '26. We appreciate your continued trust and supportive partnership of our company. We thank you for taking the time to join us today. The geopolitical volatility in West Asia, CGD industry has faced challenges in gas sourcing. We do volatility in the gas supply and pricing yet the company has demonstrated resilience through disciplined execution and clear focus on our long-term strategic priorities and strengthen of our operating model. Before heading to the Q&A round, I wish to highlight the key performance results for FY '25, '26 based on the results declared yesterday evening. We have achieved the average sales volume during the current year at 9.39% mmscmd as against 8.99 mmscmd in previous financial year, and a substantial increase of 10% in CNG sales volume in [indiscernible], with the declining sales from DTC and DIMTS excluded. DTC sales volume has reached to 3,000 [ kgs ] per day in the last quarter, and is expected to be [ near ] in coming quarters -- the coming quarter. We have achieved sales volume increase of 17% in our new GAs. There is an 8% increase in gross turnover since the previous year at INR 17,785 crores as against INR 16,340 crores in the previous year. We have earned a healthy EBITDA of INR [ 18 50 ] crores during current year, though a decline of 6% over previous year and a PAT of INR [ 13 64 ] crores, down by INR [ 103 ] crores as compared to the last year. We do onetime impact of reversal of OMC margin of INR 114 crores in the previous year. Despite the increasing gas price amid international prices, with the activation of force majeure clause by our suppliers, we are able to maintain EBITDA in the current year. With the national P&G Drive 2.0, to accelerate clean energy transition and natural gas adoption requiring a surrender of LPG connections wherein PNG pipeline connectivity is available, we are expecting substantial increase of 3 to 4 lakh build customer per year as against the usual 2, 2.5 lakh that we were doing, and a growth of 20% in domestic sales volume in upcoming years. We are quite hopeful that with the gas sourcing arrangement in place, increasing pipeline infrastructure with planned CapEx of INR 1,400 crores to INR 1,500 crores in the coming year, volume growth seen in the new year, we can plan to achieve sales volume of 10.6 and a net CMD at exit of FY '26 '27. We remain committed to driving sustainable growth, improving operational efficiency and creating long-term value for all stakeholders. Now I would like to invite our Director, Commercial, for his opening remarks.

Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Mohit Bhatia, Director, Commercial of IGL. And I'm pleased to welcome all our investors, analysts, stakeholders and the members of the Financial Committee joining us today. Thank you for joining us for our company's earnings conference call on the financial results declared yesterday for the year ended 31st March '26. As Managing Director has highlighted some of the points relating to the annual performance of the company from the results of the financial year 2025 '26, let me add some of the perspective from my side. We have witnessed a 5% increase in CNG volumes during the current year, a 9% annual increase in domestic PNG volumes, with 13% increase in particularly Q4 of this year as compared to Q4 of the previous year. With ongoing PNG Drive 2.0, there is a 4% increase in industrial sales and 9% increase in commercial sales in the current year over the previous year. It is also -- I'm pleased to mention that we have clocked 10.2 mmscmd of these sales during the month of February '26 itself. We have also crossed a mark of 1,000 CNG stations during the current year, with the total number clogging to [ 1 0 2 4 ], assuring greater penetration and ease in availability of cleaner fuel mobility solutions, increased steel pipeline network by 250 kilometers and MDP pipeline by 2,470 kilometer. Our domestic connections have increased by 3.7 lakhs during the current year, and we have witnessed an increase of almost 2 lakh plus customers in our build domestic customer base. As far as Q4 is concerned, we have achieved 6% increase in gross turnover, EBITDA of INR 423 crores, that is 4.85 per SCM and EBITDA of INR [ 3 85 ] crores. In SCM term, INR 4.41 per SCM in the current quarter. With the annual surge in the average new CNG vehicle additions post GST 2.0 and convergence are clogging at around 23,000 [ copy ] within average increase. And in the later half of the month, it was almost touching 26,760 vehicles per month. We are expecting a substantial increase of 10% to 13% in CNG sales volume growth in the upcoming year. We are also pleased to inform that we have commissioned our second LNG station, that is at [ Concor Dadri ], a step towards long-haul trucking mechanism. With the introduction of 2 zone traffic regimes in the later end of the current year in place of 3 zone structure to determine pipeline transition costs for CNG and domestic customers under zone 1. Regardless of the geographical area, we are expecting lowering of gas costs in the coming year for CNG and domestic consumers and recovery of our declining profits and reduced costs. On behalf of the management, I assure you sustainable revenue growth, market expansion and enhanced value delivery to customers despite dynamic business environment through geopolitical turbulence through a growth-driven disciplined execution of strategies and customer centers. With this, I welcome you all once again and open the session for Q&A. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Sabri Hazarika from Emkay Global.

I've got 3 questions. Firstly, this volume guidance that you have given, so 10.6. So is it average volumes or exit volume for FY '27?

So this is the last quarter exit guidance.

Exit volumes. And this 10% to 13% growth in CNG also, that is also incorporated in this 10.6 exit volumes. Is that right?

Yes, yes.

Okay. Second question is on your EBITDA per SCM guidance for FY '27 as well as long term?

That will be INR 7 to INR 8 per SCM. Maybe the first quarter would be challenging, but we are making efforts to bring it back to 7 to 8.

Okay. And also, what was the CapEx for FY 2026?

INR [ 11 72 ] crores.

INR [ 11 72 ] crores. And just one last question. Your domestic PNG currently, what is the base and out of which, how much is [ burning ] customers? I mean connected as well as burning versus connected and [ nonburning ]?

Actually, our total connected customers are close to 34.4 lakhs. And out of that, you can say the build on is 24.5. So balance now with this PNG drive push and plus the control orders from the government, we are expecting that -- and also seeing also that there is a lot of demand from customers to sit to PNG. And every day, as you are aware, the national PNG drive is going on, where all the companies have -- so ideally, is the best performing among all the companies. And until now for PNG drive, we have done, I would say, 1.6 lakh connections have been done, and our target is 3.5 lakh connections. That is the build connection, not the infrastructure, but the build ones. And earlier, we used to do around 2.25 kind of numbers, 2.25, 2.5. So that will increase to 3.5.

The 3.5 bill customers, which you are talking about it?

Yes, yes, yes. But the increase from, say, 24.5, that will be the increase.

And just a small follow-up. So also, how fast do you think you can achieve? Is there any project-related issues or it is just the customer mindset which can immediately lead to this conversion because I think the connectivity is already done.

So I will tell you that actually, we are in an advantageous position, in the sense that there are 5 lakh connections where very little is to be done. And just to give an example, we have close to 14,000, 15,000 connections in defense establishment, where the connection is provided even to the 7 quarters. It is only that earlier they were getting some quota for LPG. So they were really reluctant. Now the MOD, Ministry of Defense, has issued some guidelines, and there is a huge conversion there. So there, we need to not do anything, only the customer if it comes in, and there are some peaking issues with respect to NOC and other things that we are sorting it out. So other than that, infrastructure wise, there is no such major issue. Only the customer has to give his consent and we will start the gas. So those are the numbers that pilot connections of such connections there, where [indiscernible] is to be done, and we can immediately start. Only the request has to come from customers.

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of [ EA Sandram ] from [ Bugle Rock ].

I don't have any questions about the quarterly performance or about the recent margins, but I do have some observations to share. And these are really a reiteration of what I had suggested earlier to IGL. So please permit me a few minutes to present these observations. So I think , sir, that IGL needs to do more and be a little more proactive in terms of communication. While it is true that periodically, any company's performance will face ups and downs, it is important that the company presents to the investment community, the correct picture about its own competitive position. And why, in your opinion, there's really nothing wrong with the company's ability to compete in the marketplace. In the past several months, there have been negative perceptions around IGL that are floating around in the investment community. And I will share a couple of them with you. For example, there was a fear that the electric vehicles will swamp out the CNG vehicle industry. And number two, the fresh registrations for [indiscernible] or two-wheelers will not be given in Delhi, if the vehicle is not an electric vehicle. So these have actually created negative perceptions around IGL. Now I really think, sir, it is part of the beauty of IGL to put out facts in the public domain to dispel fears of this kind. Point number one, why should there be licenses for CGD businesses given to 300 cities, if gas is meant to be discouraged? Number two, how can India meet its commitments to Paris Climate accord if gas is not used extensively? Number three, what is the present level of new vehicle registrations in Delhi and NCR for CNG vehicles? Number four, why will gas continue to be a transition fuel for at least 15 years more, if not longer? And number five, what is the company doing to diversify its geographic presence? Now IGL's ability to compete in the marketplace is beyond out. But being reticent about your own strength is not what is required now. That is my observation, sir.

Yes. Thank you for valuable advice. I would say first suggestion is very well taken. And in that line, in fact, we have created one advocacy group, because we need to reach out to many, many people, including the investing community. So that's the part we are doing. As far as electric is concerned, there have been some positive developments because recently, [ Haryana ] has notified TV policy, in which the CNG for aggregator, now aggregator only CNG and EV revenue allowed. It's similar to what the Delhi policy was earlier. So that is a very, very positive development. Second is that now, the aggregator part in the very easy policy. The debate is clear that CNG would be allowed in that aggregator part. The 4-wheeler part, only the challenge will be 3-wheeler. That also we are submitting our -- we have done a study. We have commissioned the study. The report is yet to come with [ deri ]. And now we are also doing some tests with ICAT and IRAI. So those -- if they are shared with the decision makers, I think that will give confidence to them also that CNG is a cleaner fuel as compared to the perception right now, they have some of the lab readings that they have got. We don't know the source of those readings. But those are the things that we are working on. And we don't see gas as a transmission fuel, we believe it is a destination fuel simply because not all the [ future ] are renewable fuels like PPG, hydrogen, the [ feature ] fuel. So they can be blended in the existing infrastructure that can be used to blend those. Now similar to the [ colon ] story, if CVG is a mandate stood at 5%, IGL has taken 10%. Going forward, that can also be increased to 20%, 25%. And add to that, is we blend hydrogen into that network. So it becomes a future-ready network. So that -- in that sense, our network is very resilient. And if you can blend some of these future fuels of the renewable fuels into natural gas. So that should support us. And your other questions were related to new GAs. So we have given acceptance for [indiscernible] so those are the 2 new geographical areas that we'll be working on. In addition to that, now that the push for PNG is more, and some of the players, the weaker players may opt to go out and then those opportunities would be available to us. So we are open to those. And yes, so the third one which you said on the registration of the CNG vehicles, so some data, some statistics, I would like to share with you. Like I mentioned in my opening remarks also, around 23,000 on an average monthly basis, the new addition of CNG vehicle is happening across Asia, Delhi and entire other GS. Otherwise, your daily contribution is coming roughly around 40% and 60% [ Nora, Gazyva ] and other GS, it is happening. And if we see in the later half of the year, it touched to almost 26,000 also after the GST 2.0 came and the -- it got reduced from 28% to 18%. Secondly, if we see the segment-wise data, so CNG last year contributed to almost 34% and petrol vehicles contributed to around [ addition ] was 35%, diesel was 20%. Yes, it is picking up, as MD also said, it was around 8% to 10%. But I think CNG is going on very, very early numbers.

My only request is that let's make it a regular exercise that you put out these numbers and these details in the public domain through either a presentation on your own website, et cetera, so that we may not have to wait for an analyst meet or something like that to ask these questions. That's the only request I have.

Yes, yes. I think your point is well taken, and we'll come out with certain mechanisms so that timely more effective communication and something on the website will be also published.

Next question is from the line of from [ Akash Mehta ] [indiscernible] [ HSBC Life ].

So my first question is on the [ Haryana ] policy, but I mean the [indiscernible] and the new, -- so I mean, in terms of the implementation and just going through what will be the next steps that you, I mean, will kind of happen in terms of adopting cleaner fuels in Haryana. That's my first question.

Okay. So as I think MD also just shared that I think yesterday, only some EV policy and CNG policy of Haryana has come, wherein the aggregators case, they have the preferred to go for CNG and EV on a tandem basis and further curtailment of petrol vehicles. So since we have also gone ahead with the acceptance of the GA Haryana, in particularly [ Faridabad and Gurgaon ], I think it will be beneficial listing for IGL.

So in terms of volumes, any numbers you can kind of share that would kind of, I mean, incremental , not incremental volume, any assessment that you have done?

Yes, I think what -- yes, so whatever area we have presently of Gurgaon, it's -- we have a very limited area, 1/3 of the area. But going forward, I think another 1/3 we'll be getting. And the Gurgaon, I think, has lot of potential is there in terms of vehicular addition. And going forward, it is almost -- we are selling around 2, 2.5 lakh of CNG per day, whereas our competitor to the other CGD entities, they are almost touching around 8 lakhs to 1 million. So with this -- because in CNG, what happens is if you have a CNG station at the ordering area and with the price competition and other services, I think you can attract a lot of volume from the competitors also.

If I may supplement that when we were looking at the vehicle conversion GA-wise, we find that Gurgaon is one of the promising one where after Delhi, the number of conversion there are on the higher side, like 6,000 -- as against 10,000 in Delhi. So the conversion rate in Gurgaon is also very high, and that, we feel, would benefit us.

If we talk about the penetration -- so Gurgaon has one of the highest penetration amongst our GA. It is around 47%. So on the new vehicles which are sold in Gurgaon, 47% is on CNG. So we already see high penetration there. And given the continuance of CNG in the new policy as an aggregative team, I think it supports our current position and probably it will help us in where growth could be in Gurgaon.

Sure. Sir, that's quite helpful. Just on the margin bit, if you can just help us with the incremental gas price hike that would be needed on basis of the current gas cost for us to kind of maintain the EBITDA per SCM. Give us some indicative number and your loss -- gas costs split as of now in terms of sourcing?

Yes, in terms of sourcing, you can say it's a 50-50 mix, that 50% is RLNG and 50% is domestic. And after that 6% to 7% would be HPH 2 gas, and 43% to 44% as is KPM renewal. And that keeps on changing the mix. But you can say 60% is [ 18 ], 40% is new well. And based on that, the situation is very, very dynamic. So what we feel is that we have taken a price hike of INR 3 that should help the EBITDA margin. And going forward, we are watching the situation. And based on our assessment, we'll take a call on any price increases required.

Sure, sir, but I think another INR 4 to INR 5 would be needed. I mean this is how things are going, I mean.

I can only share that the input costs have increased by around 25% as of now. But tomorrow, if the situation improves, the crude comes down to 70, 80 levels, then I think this will get improved -- the input cost will get improved. In that sense, so as of now, we can't tell you how much is needed to -- for us to maintain [ 7 to 8 ] for the entire year because the year has just started. And because our strategy has always been to have a balance between growth and EBITDA margin. The margin guidance, 7 to 8, is a very reasonable expectation that we've seen. And growth, the conversion numbers are very, very robust that in the last quarter, that was around 27,000. Year average was around 23,000. So if we have to maintain that momentum, so I think that would be one factor which will weigh on our minds.

Just not take the EBITDA number at a particular point of time, rather let us see as an average quarter on the average or annual average. And in that sense, whatever -- and I said that 7 to 8 is something which we are looking at. And over a period of 1 year, we'll be able to achieve that.

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Yogesh Patil from Dolat Capital.

You just mentioned that input gas cost on overall level has gone up by 50% or 15%?

For the current -- [ 25% ].

Okay. So is it right to assume gas cost per unit in Q4 was approximately 36.8 per SCM that has gone up by 25%? Is that the right understanding?

No, no. It is not in the last quarter, but I was talking from the pre-war levels. So [ 52 ] kind of number.

Okay. Fair enough. Second question, sir, considering INR 3 per kg in CNG price hike and exchange rate remains the same at the current level, then can we expect EBITDA in the range of [ INR 6 plus ] in the Q2?

Actually, the -- we are watching the situation, especially with respect to alternate fuels, competing fuels also. And that has been our endeavor that whatever we were at 5.4 in the [ first ] -- we finished at 5.4. So whatever is needed to reach 7, we will take those measures.

Okay. Sir, a few data clicking questions. How do the DTC buses phase out during the Q4? And what was the CNG consumption of DIMTS versus during the Q4?

See now DTC is only 25 buses are remaining with us and things around [ 70, 90 ], what is the number? [ 70, 90 ] buses are there.

Any consumption number of DIMTS buses CNG consumption number during the Q4?

DIMTS number, yes, just a second. I think DIMTS number...

It will be around 1.5.

DIMTS, we are selling now around 1.9.

DIMTS is 1.9 and [indiscernible] 1.3. Yes, 1.3 exactly. 1.3 and DTP is almost now have hardly 1,000 kgs per day. So DTC is all gone. DIMTS, still it is there. It is reducing, but almost INR 1.3 lakhs per day as well.

Okay. And the last one -- yes, sir. Yes, sir. And the last one, sir, we have seen a sharp jump in operating expenses sequentially, was it include any one-off expense?

For operational expenses per SCM, if you calculate that would be, I think, a better metric.

The CSR expenditure is generally in last quarter. So that is the reason it has gone...

But if you see, as compared to previous year, like we also said the rupees per SCM will be the correct measure to understand so we have reduced by around 8 to 10 [ paisa ] in our OpEx expenses per SCM this year.

Sir, one fundamental question...

Sorry to interrupt, Mr. Yogesh, can I ask you to come back, please? [Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Maulik Patel from Equirus.

Sir, 2 questions. One is that what is the growth you have achieved in these 3 different ones and another lease second reason in the [indiscernible] for the CAG segment, if you can give a specific number?

So like we mentioned in the opening also, Delhi is flat in CNG, it's almost 1% only, and we have to take care of the DTC volumes lost also. And [ Noida, Ghaziabad ] is around 6% to 8%, and other GS have grown by 16% to 17%. And if we knock off the historical volume for the GDP, then the entire [indiscernible] level, it is around 9.8% to 10% growth.

Got it. Got it. The second question, in terms of final supply mix, did you have any of this force majeure during the quarter? Because of the -- whatever has happened with related to the [indiscernible] volume. Do you have any force majeure? And if it's fair, how you replace that?

Okay. So as you are aware that after the Middle East issues in February end, so there was a force majeure imposed by Qatar Energy at Qatar after the [indiscernible] attacks and all. And then immediately, first, government has come up with a reform. They have come up with the [indiscernible] for prioritizing domestic PNG and CNG as priority #1 and subsequently to fertilizer. So first thing they have given on the basis of the last 6 months average sales, we have been getting almost 100% in the location in terms of consumption. That is the priority #1. DPNG, 105% and CMG may be around 35% to 40%. Then there has been a pull gas mechanism, which as government has come out and the [ gale ] is offering on that full gas mechanism, pricing is there. That is there. And for industrial and commercial, some spot back to back, we have made some arrangements. So it is a force like that.

Next question is from the line of Nitin Tiwari from Philip Capital.

Just a few housekeeping ones from my end. What was the CNG sales in kg in this quarter?

Sales in kg -- in 50 lakhs, [indiscernible] thousand. On the average for the year, fourth quarter 51 lakhs 30,000.

51 lakhs 30,000. Right. And sir, my second question was with respect to the industrial and commercial consumers. So what was our pricing for these consumers in the previous quarter and what's the pricing right now? And related to that, sir, also, if you could highlight what was our average LNG procurement cost in the previous quarter and what it is now? I'm talking about spot LNG.

Spot LNG, if you see some quantities which we had specifically bought for a few of the customers on back-to-back rates, that came at around $17 during that crisis summit. When it started, it was around 21, and then subsequent months, it was at around $17.5. So that was the pricing in terms of ForEx component for the gas cost. The entire cost has been passed on to the customer. And given that the alternate fuels are also not available to them, they are basically coming back to P&E, and lots of demand is there at this point of time. Demand has not gone down.

Yes, that was what I was trying to get at. So what is the price that we charge in the previous quarter and what we are charging right now to industrial and financial business?

If I tell you, around 35% to 40% increase in the prices have taken shape over 2, 3 months.

35% to 50%, you say?

At around 35% to 40%.

35% to 40% increase. And that's the trend that we are continuing, right?

Because on back-to-back spot basis, then it is almost 50, 50%.

Okay. And lastly, sir, what's the CapEx number for '27?

For '27, we expect to be around INR 1,500 crores we can -- we push on PNG by the government. So a lot can be added will make it [indiscernible] [ 72 ] crores. We expect that to go up and reach approximately around [ INR 1,500 crores ] on core segment of the business.

Next question is from line of [ Pratesh ] from [ Encode ] Capital.

Just 2 questions was regarding your sourcing of natural gas. So after the crisis, more government pulled the gas and kind of try to allocate the gas. And since the CBDs were put in the priority list one, I suppose that you would be getting about 100% of the cash. Just wanted to understand of the pricing mechanism, on the basis of this, you get the gas for at least your priority sector plan CNG and PNG domestic? And second, regarding the industrial segment consumers since they appear -- the propane wasn't available. So I'm assuming that the margins would have got elevated at least for this quarter? And how are you seeing the quarter 1 of FY '27 as far as PNG industry is concerned?

Okay. So we'll start with the ATM, you know that it is based on [indiscernible] product committee pricing mechanism, and now it is increasing year-on-year basis. So now currently, it is if the CVD loading is also there to $7.7 per MMBtu is the APM price first. Then the second part is the new oil gas, which is at a premium of 20% of the Indian crude basket. So Indian crude basket has already gone up. So it is almost touching now $13 per MMBtu. That is the new world gas. The third, I also earlier mentioned that there has been a new working on the pooled gas because the government has given a mandate of priority one to PNG and CNG. So there is a different mechanism of cool gas, and that is being also sourced at around $14 to $15. And apart from that spot is the spot you -- depends like it is now 17 to 18. And apart from that, on the industrial, as we mentioned earlier, whatever we are sourcing additional that is given on a back-to-back basis with a little bit of markup and that is passed to the customer.

I can understand that, for example, 100% is the requirement and about 60% -- [ 50% ] is getting fulfilled by, let's say, by APMS and CPT, then whatever rest, 50%, at least for your CNG and PNG domestic fulfillment, that would be -- that gas would be -- will be given through the full gas mechanism and the pricing which the government has decided. Am I right in assuming that?

Yes, you can. It is almost like that.

Got it, sir. And also there was one media circulation regarding the unavailability of the [indiscernible] CVD companies are not able to meet the requirement of the PNG connections which government has mandated about 1 lakh connections per day. So it is that only 10,000 to 12,000 connections is being made. So I just wanted to understand your view on it. Is it correct as far as IGL is concerned or it's not that relevant to IGL?

So actually, we are right that for the industry, this is one of the issues. But for IGL, this is not an area of concern because we were already doing 2.5 to 3 lakh well connections and 3.5, 3.7 lakh last year, we did infrastructure-wise, if you say. So we were already doing, and there is a small increment in that. So that sense and being also the national capital, so there is some advantages. So we are not facing the plumber issue as compared to other entities that are facing this issue.

Next question is from an [ Rajkiran Ganli ] from SBM Mutual Fund.

Sir, you mentioned that the gas cost has increased by 25% on a base of INR 32 per your cost means that your gas cost has gone up by INR 8, whereas you've taken the INR 3 per kg hike as yet, which is about INR 1.4 per SCM. So even to maintain this Q4 margin, maybe OpEx normalize and all, I'm just wondering maybe even in Q1 and all, it will require a significant high increase, right, just to pass on what is already there?

So actually, industrial and commercial segments, we have been able to increase the prices because the competing fuels were substantially higher. So there, we have no issues. The domestic segment is covered through ATM. So that also is not an issue. And we have taken a INR 1.7 increase in last month for this increase in this APM price. So that has been factored in only the C&D portion that we believe that if the situation improves and the cost comes down, because slowly, we are seeing that the handing of quantities that were curtailed due to the force majeure, they are getting restored. Now we get that is done because that is one gas where we have not seen much volatility. The [indiscernible] has remained between 2.6 or 2 1 5 to $3. So if that is given 100%, then that will solve some of our problems.

Okay. And on the industrial and commercial side, where you said more price hikes have been taken and you've been able to pass through there, any breakdown, if you can give how our margins in that segment versus prewar?

Margins, we have almost kept flat. We reduced a little bit, but then we are able to maintain the same level of profitability in those. That cost has been past. Profitability is maintained. That's what we can see at this point.

Next question is from [ Arka ] from Nomura.

My first question is across the IGL portfolio, what percent of CNG volume goes to the cab aggregators and delivery services?

So cab aggregator, our mix has been that 48% is the private vehicles and cab aggregator, around 12%, 13% is there. 9% is -- there is no entity pay in which this data is available. So 12% to 13%, we will see arrive from the [indiscernible] directly.

Okay. And secondly, can you please tell us the total CNG volume that comes from Haryana?

From Haryana?

Yes.

CNG volume you're talking about? The total volume from [ Haryana ] is 0.81 million, 0.65 million of PNG and 0.16 million of CNG. And Haryana had an overall growth of around 11%, 12%.

Over the period? Over this period?

We have around 4 DAs there in Haryana, [ Karnal, Kasal, Nuvali and Gurugram ], and overall we got around 11% to 12% of growth year-on-year. On average annual basis.

Next question is from the line of Kishan Mundhra from DAM Capital Advisors.

Just one question, data keeping question, actually. So if you could provide the detailed breakup of our gas procurement that we have done in 4Q bifurcated into APM, NWT, HPST [ Henry up ] and [ Brent-linked ] contracts. If possible, in MMC in returns. And then also, if you could compare it to what we are getting currently after the gas pooling mechanism?

So okay. So I'll give you of Q4, is it okay?

Sure, okay.

So as we mentioned, domestic gas is around 55%. And the breakup of this 55% APM is around -- domestic gas, 37% is ABM; 8%, fuel gas; DMG, 1%; HPHT is 4%. Then we get some from IGX also, we take around 3%. And coal [indiscernible], 1%, so this is on the domestic. Our LNG front short term is almost 7%, and the long-term contracts, what we have is around 38%. So this is roughly breakup in terms of percentage.

With the overall mix, not from the privacy segment.

Yes.

Okay. And sir, if you could help us this revise what -- how many long-term contracts do you have currently in mmscmd terms? And what is the split between Brent-linked and NTR linked?

We have close to 5 -- 4.8 million, and 2/3 of that is [indiscernible] linked.

And are you looking to -- I mean -- so are you scouting for more long-term contracts RNG contract?

Yes, yes. Because some of our contracts are expiring in '28. So we are looking at long-term contracts. Beyond '29 onwards, we are in discussion with various suppliers.

Next question is from the line of [indiscernible] from Nuvama.

I had a bookkeeping question. What are the number of industrial and commercial customers that IGL has as of the end of the quarter?

End of the quarter. So we have around 7,500 commercial customers and around 5,500 industrial customers.

Next follow-up question is from the line of EA Sandram from Bugle Rock.

Regarding the question that you had earlier answered from another gentlemen, you said that you have 1/3 of Gurgaon, and you're expecting to get another 1/3. Can you give more details, please?

No, no, we never said that we have 1/3 and we are expecting another 1/3. So what we meant was that whatever authorization is with us is 1/3 of the Gurugram area.

Okay. So it will remain 1/3. Is that what is meant?

Yes, some of -- we have not accepted the authorization as a subsidy and still subsidies with the conditional -- with some conditions we have given our acceptance for starting this work.

Okay. But is it the intention to gain more territory in Gurgaon? Is that the intention of IGL?

I think there is no option like that available. If it is available, then we'll definitely -- but right now, there is no option because once you get an authorization, you have a excludability [indiscernible]. So that option is not there.

Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take that as the last question. I'll now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

Thank you, everyone. Thank you for joining this call -- annual earnings call for IGL. Thank you for taking time out from your busy schedule. Next year, of course, this was a challenging year in terms of the gas cost, and it is still continuing. Hopefully, when we meet next time, this geopolitical situation will be behind us, and we'll be going to be with better numbers. On this note, I would just like to want to share that I'll be going back to my parent organization, BPCM. Mr. Manjeet will be taking over as CFO. And from 21st onwards, he will be the point of contact for you all. So thank you so much. See you probably -- I'll meet you somewhere [indiscernible]. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Thank you.

On behalf of ICICI Securities Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.