IndusInd Bank Limited (INDUSINDBK) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of IndusInd Bank, I warmly welcome you to our Investor Day. Thank you so much for taking your time out. We have an exciting day planned ahead as we share our future focus areas. The day will commence with a strategic overview by our MD and our CEO, Mr. Sumant Kathpalia, followed by presentations of individual businesses. I would like the esteemed audience to also know that we set up an exclusive zone outside the ballroom. This zone will be open during lunchtime and after we finished with all our presentations, please take a moment to visit each one of these booths and get an experience of our offerings. Without any further ado, I'd like to invite on stage our Managing Director and CEO, Mr. Sumant Kathpalia, to address the audience and set the context for the day.

Good morning and welcome to the investor presentations and the Investor Day. I think it's very important to do these type of meetings. It gives a brief cursor and an overview of what the bank is doing and what is the bank all about. Why did it do the things which it did? And what is the way forward for the bank as we move forward? It's also an opportunity for you to meet and interact with the management team, and see live some of the products and the capabilities which we have created or are in the verge of launching. I think the stalls out there will give you an insight into what IndusInd is all about and what IndusInd is planning to do. I think we got a complete agenda for you today. I think, I do my first presentation, followed by the consumer banking presentation. I think important why consumer bank because liabilities is a focus, and we will talk about liabilities and how -- what we are going to do on liabilities; the affluent banking, which is a new vertical of the bank. And what is it that differentiates us from the rest of the world. And why do we say affluent banking is going to be a big business for us. Vehicle finance, our domain specialization, followed by lunch; microfinance, again, one of our domain. Corporate banking, the change corporate bank. It's not the same corporate bank which you saw. I think what is the new changes which have happened in corporate bank. Diamond Group. I think a lot of people have questions about a Diamond. We've never exposed our Diamond head in the business in detail. We will expose the whole and what do we do in the Diamond business? And why is it so profitable as a business? Our digital banking. I think the new way -- we are not looking at this as an enablement. We're looking at it as a business unit. And I think what are we going to bring in...If we have time, we will go to the product groups. If we don't have the time, we will cut that and we will show you a brief cursor into the -- a new product launch, which we are going to have a new business launch which we are going to do. And I think then we will go into the experience [Indiscernible]. There are many presentations. We'll cut it short if it's time is required to cut it short. But I think if we do it by 5:00, I think we should be over. We will see if the product presentations can be accommodated today or not. I think the presentation covers 3 big parts. The first part of the presentation is really towards the backdrop to our strategy. Where are we coming from? What is it that we -- made us revisit our strategy? And why did we do what we did? I think a brief view -- review of the past to look at things which were happening and how have we molded ourselves as we move forward. Are the building blocks in place today? We will show you some data on it, and how are we looking. Whatever we said that we were focused on, are we -- have we moved ahead? Or are we still lacking on those data points? And how will we achieve the growth as we go forward? I think one thing you must remember, this bank has to be looked as a compounding bank and not as a volatile bank. It's a sustainable compounding 22% to 25% CAGR bank. That is how you should look at this bank as we go forward. It will be a very, very predictable, sustainable bank. And that is what our focus was, and that is what we have created as we move forward. I think before I go into the presentation, I think the operating environment has changed. And I think we must look at how the bank is coping up with the operating environment. I think a lot of buzz is around in the market, and I think it is very important to address that buzz. And that's the precursor to the presentation. Tightening liquidity or will the bank be able to grow? The questions which are asked is, will the bank be able to sustain its growth in a tightening liquidity? The confusion which is happening is, liquidity, granularization of liability and funding are 3 different issues. And I think there's a mix, and I'll talk later in my presentation how people are combining these 3 issues and creating an issue across the board. I think if you look at liquidity, yes, there is a tightening of liquidity. The RBI has sucked up liquidity from the system. We are now INR 2 lakh crore excess still in the system, but that doesn't mean that the bank is not liquid. We have an LCR of 125%, surplus liquidity of INR 47,000 crore in our balance sheet and a cash deposit ratio of 82%. We have not gone to 95%, 98% or 100%. We are liquid. Our growth is intact. And until we are able to touch 30%, 35% CAGR for the next 2 year, we don't believe we have a liquidity issue. And when we talk about the liquidity and the funding, I will talk to you how our funding and how our funding is completely different from the rest of the industry. Competition of deposits, [Indiscernible]. Oh, it's going to come. And everybody else will not be able to create deposits. As a consequence of that, the demand for deposits will go up. Yes, in a tightening liquidity situation, there is a rise in the COD. The rise in the COD is also being countered by different retail growth, which we have been doing. If you look at our retail growth, our retail growth has been 16% overall, and our deposit growth has been 15%, higher than the market, higher than the 9% growth with the industry. So say that the bank will not grow and there is -- will be a competition. As what we've said, we will continue to grow liabilities at any cost and granularization of liabilities. I'm making that statement again. Healthy credit growth. We said in planning cycle 5, we will do 16% to 18%. Second year was a -- first year got wrong. Second year was a complete washout with COVID 2 playing out. We did a 10% growth. This year, we said we will grow at 20%, but we're already at 18%. And quarter 3 and quarter 4, you will see the growth. We will touch the 21%, 22% growth, which we have said. And our growth will be there to meet the targets which we have set for us. That's 16% to 18% CAGR over 3 years, and we will meet our growth targets. Interest rates hikes. I think banks like us, which are more fixed rate book of 52% and a less floating rate book of 48% will have a NIM issue. Our NIM expanded by 4 basis points. Of course, the industry expanded, some of the banks expanded by 30 to 50 basis point. You have to look for yourself whether that NIM is transitory or is it sustainable. When we talk of our NIM, we talk about sustainability of NIM. And I think we will always be in the margin range of 4.15% to 4.25%. We've always set that and moving into a different margin rate of 4.25% to 4.35% as we move forward. I think it's very differentiated. We don't have a mortgage book and 18% EMI increases in the mortgage growth and 70% of NIM expansion happening through the mortgage book, which we don't have, is the way which you have to predict whether that can continue to be expanded in the way that industry has expanded. But we are doing well on NIMs, and we will continue to deliver the NIMs and under the guidance which we have set. Improving asset quality. That was another -- one of the things. People are showing 20 to 40 basis points. And I think, yes, we are in a benign environment on risk. The portfolios which we have are differentiated. Please understand microfinance is 15% -- 13% to 15% of our book. And CMD, which is the vehicle finance portfolio for us, it's 23% of our book. 46% of our book are prone to a little bit higher flow. And if you compare it with the industry, and we will show you, we are at least 40% better than the industry on this [Indiscernible]. You will continue to have flows, but we've said our guidance is 120 to 150 basis points of credit cost. And we should be able to deliver that guidance this year. And going forward, we have given a guidance of 110 to 130 basis point, and we should be within that guidance of 110 to 130 basis points. So let's start with the presentation. I think these are some of the concerns that the market had, and I think I wanted to address them upfront. What happens is a lot of talk happens around these profits, and I think it was very important to [test it]. I think let's get down to the backdrop of the strategy. And I think before we -- I talk about it, you have to understand what are the management beliefs and why have we got the strategy and which we've got. I think our business philosophy lies on 2 basic foundations. The basic foundation is we are a universal bank. We are not a microfinance bank. We are not a vehicle finance bank. We believe all segments and all businesses are profitable in this country, and that's why universality plays in this. We believe even the corporate bank is very profitable if it's done correctly. And I think we will continue to balance our growth and have all segments participating in our growth as we move forward. That's the #1 hypothesis of our -- of the management belief. The #2 hypothesis of our management belief is you must have a differentiator in the market, and that differentiator comes through the domains, 45% of our businesses are where we are #1 or #2 in the business. Growth is not important. Quality of growth is very important for us. And that's what domains over a period of 30 years of experience has shown how domains have created value for the organization and have sustained the quality which we talk about in the businesses, and we will talk about this as we go later in the presentation. Our approach towards customers. I think we believe digital is the way forward. We don't believe digital will take over completely or branches can take over completely. I think what is important, confidence will always come with the physical distribution. And I think the growth will be driven through the digital value propositions. And I think that is a mix of physical and digital, and how you integrate that and convert them into a value proposition is what you will see as we talk about. It's not about enabling, if you do products and services which are available in a traditional branch in a digital, I think it's not. It's an enablement. It doesn't create value in the long run. Those values are already embedded in your cost-to-income ratios. Everybody has achieved that. How you create a model which is differentiated from the branch distribution and create value, which converges with the branch over a period of time, is the value which I'm talking about and which is the way forward for this country as we move forward. I think personalization in client engagement, I think, is very, very important. How do you personalize and create experiences which the clients want at his time and at his moment, and I think you will see what we are creating on customers as we move forward. I think on technology, 3 parts play a role. Is your infrastructure capable to manage scale? And scale is the new buzzword. I think payments have scale, digital payments are huge volume increases, which have happened on the digital payments, whether it's on UPI, whether it's on cards, whether it's on IMPS, everything, I think. And how do you manage security as you manage your infrastructure? The cybersecurity risks are very, very important as you create this. The other is to deliver UI/UX, and I think there is a big differentiator. The banks were used to back-end systems and maybe a mobile device and engaging with the mobile. I think today's world is about UI/UX and how you create a front-end capability, which is -- which distinguishes you in a very different way. And I create an experience for a client, I think, is what technology is all about. The uptime on that -- on the front-end systems, the uptimes on the experiences which we give to the client and personalization which we give to the client, I think it's all about the new technology. And I think governance. And I think the governance is all about the culture of the organization. Are you creating the right culture and right capabilities in the organization to take care of sustainability and continuity of the business? And I think the management belief is all about the sustainability is very clear. Quality of earnings is more important than the quantity of earnings. So very big statement which I'm making. Please remember, the bank will always focus on the type of earnings, which you will see are more granular, more annuity-driven and more process- and technology-driven. And I think that's a big differentiator, which you will see in the management belief as we move forward. So what is IndusInd? What do you like IndusInd for? I think it's a diversified franchise. It's a very different franchise when you compare the big banks and us. You will find this franchise has unique propositions, which are very, very differentiated. If you look at our domains, we provide livelihood loans. 43% of our business comes from these domain specializations. In every category, you will see us #1, #2 in that category of domains. As a consequence of these domains, our funding profile is completely different. These are not domains which we have created. These are businesses which have been there for 30 years and have seen differentiated cycles, different cycles on geopolitical risk or demonetization or even in the pandemic, and have come over and continued to sustain themselves over a period of time. And I think that makes us a very, very differentiated, a large bank withholding domain specializations, 3 domain specializations of a very differentiated nature. And all the 3 we'll present to you today in a very differentiated way. Robust liability funding prefer, and I wanted to add the funding. One of the issues and angst against us was the liability was not granular, and we were dependent on bulk deposits or market borrowings. I think if you look at our data, and we will show it to you later in the presentation, you will see our dependency on market borrowings. Market deposits, bulk deposits has gone down considerably. We are not anymore a bank which is on a CD ratio of 100% and above. We are a 82%, 83%. We are not a bank which has -- which is dependent on borrowing or short-term funding from other banks. It's not the way we do our business anymore. I think if you benchmark us, I think you will benchmark us that you're best in class among the peers in that. Yes, the granularization exercise is still on. We are 41% as for Basel III LCR norms. We want to move to 48% to 52%, and we are moving at a very fast pace. I can assure you this much. So I think the funding profile and liability franchise also what we've created. I think when you hear Soumitra's presentation today, you will see how differentiated the liability franchise. We are not doing arrows in the open market and say it would strike. We can't. As a midsized bank, you cannot. You've got to have a very defined strategy on liabilities and saying, how are you going to grow liabilities? And how are you going to grow market share in certain geographies, certain segments? And how -- what is the next phase of that segmentation? And I think you will hear that presentation today, and how we differentiate ourselves in the liability franchise? Strong product groups. I think, did you all know that we are the third-largest treasury in the banking industry in the Indian bank. We have a global market group which is one of the best in class. We carry the overweight on a global market book than the size of the balance sheet which we carry. And you can see that, you can compare it. And I think it's a business which we are proud of. And I think if we have time today, we will run through that presentation. Our transaction banking book. People talk about ecosystem. People talk about, oh, I do the ecosystem. We are always doing it. Maybe we've not advertised. I think our transaction banking group carries a huge weight with the small size of balance sheet, which we have on the corporate bank. It's the type of businesses -- and we will give you some experiences and examples of what we've done in that area. And I think you will feel proud as to how this bank has differentiated itself. So for example, we are the largest escrow holder in the country, whether it's RERA, whether it's NBFCs. We're very strong in these 2 verticals: real estate and the NBFC vertical. We get all the flows out of this RERA. With an escrow account, we manage the RERA account, 90% of the RERA accounts are with us. A lot of NBFCs escrows are with us. That makes us a differentiating proposition as we move forward. We have created capabilities using mar Bharat Financial, and how we do the power distribution and do the collection capability. You will see those example and say, why have we got the best product groups to support our business units and get the value experience for the client. I think disproportionately large distribution. So when we look at our distribution, don't talk about 2,300 branches. We're not 2,300. We may be 2,300 physical branches on branch banking site. But we have 1,900 BC-led branches in the microfinance side and another 1,700 branches in the vehicle finance side to support our business, which makes us equal and to the large banks which are operating in India. We can convert them into deposit-taking branches tomorrow. We've already got the capability and the ability and investments done in the distribution as we create our business logic. So please understand this bank is not a 2,300 distribution branches. It has what people call Bharat. We have with the distribution reach in Bharat than anybody else, 3,500 branches sitting in Bharat, Tier 3 and below. We have 2,300 physical branches of banking-related business. So we are completely different as a distribution franchise, and we've already invested in that capability as we move along. I believe we have one of the fastest and off the blocks on Digital 2.0, not as an enablement, but as a business. And you will see the launch or some shades of it IND launch, which is our individual launch and then followed by SME, which we will launch in 3 months or 6 months down the road. You will see what capabilities and what areas we've gone and how we have differentiated ourselves from the others as we move into that business. It's not about a product. It's about an experience. It's not about making -- selling a product through a channel. It's about basically experience how product flows into the clients. And I think it's a very, very differentiated experience. And a very, very experienced management team. And I think what you will see over a period of time, and I will introduce the management team members. A lot of you have not met the management team members. As a consequence, a lot of management team has changed, but we did it slowly and gradually without affecting the business. So there are no more the [large ox who] were sitting, absolutely young energetic team, which is there who's taken on the businesses, specifically in the domains which we have and how we are running those domains. So this is our management team. I will request the management team members to at least raise their hands because a lot of people have not met them and have been introduced to them. I think Arun Khurana, Deputy CEO. So when we say about a Deputy CEO, we say, what is a deputy CEO? Can 2 CEOs coexist as a consequence? And you see how we've divided responsibilities and how we've run the business in a very, very -- Arun continues to have specialization in global markets, and our global markets I think the whole foundation, and he runs the product piece for the bank. So I think Arun Khurana, I think the Deputy CEO of the bank. Arun, can you raise your hand so that people see you? Yes? Sanjeev Anand, Head of Commercial, Corporate Bank, I think, have been with the bank for long, but it's the orientation which has changed over a period of time, the way our businesses have undergone, I think Sanjeev Anand? Biju, the stalwart of the Diamond business. I think been with the business for around 30 years, runs the business. And I think we don't have many accounts relation. We just run 50 relationship, but we run them [Indiscernible]. That's the business. The 4% or 5% of our book comes from Biju as a consequence. Sriram, who took over from Partha, you've known. I think he's been running this business 18 years, 20 years experience since CFD, runs the whole and see the transition. And we've never seen such growth what we are seeing and disbursements which we are seeing on the business. Very well acquainted with all facets of the business as we go along. Soumitra Sen, Head of consumer bank, he took it from me, runs the full consumer bank including the consumer assets piece of the bank. J Sridharan, I think -- ex-CFD guy, moved into banking, understood the CFO and has managed the transition and has managed the full volatility in the microfinance, which he took -- has seen the growth in the microfinance as we came along. I think, Samir Dewan, Head of Affluent, comes from RBC. He was the CEO of RBC in Singapore as Private Banking, runs the whole affluent banking channel for us and has created a fantastic business model, which you will hear. Siddharth Banerjee runs the global market piece, been with the bank and had a lot of experience in global market now. Rana Vikram runs the liability piece as a stand-alone individual, creates programs and what -- how the liability should move creates the transition. Gobind Jain, the CFO of the bank, I think a lot of you should interact with him when you have the time, runs the finance function of the bank completely. Ramaswamy Meyyappan, I think runs CRO as a continuity. We have the CRO who's there. I think Ramesh Ganesan, runs the technology and the CGMO piece and been with the bank, manages the whole technology transition and these global markets. Zubin Mody continues to run the HR piece of the bank. Anil Rao runs the old solution delivery and the operations piece of the bank. Anish Behl runs the Wealth and Para banking. Please Anish, not there, I didn't see him. Charu runs the whole digital and the strategy piece of the bank in this. Roopa Satish, who was the corporate, I think has done a fantastic job on the ESR capability and the portfolio management of the bank in the... I think Murli, who's not there today, is the compliance head of the bank. Jyothi Prasad, comes from Yes Bank, runs the internal audit, again, a huge candidate who's been -- Indrajit Yadav, Sanjay Mallik used to run the Investor Relation, Indrajit Yadav runs the Investor Relations. So that's a management team all about. I think it's very important to put the faces behind it. I think, except for 5 people, all are new into the [CET], all everybody is new into the [CET]. What was the bank known for? The bank was known for scale with profitability. I think you will recognize this bank again, except for the 2 year, we believe in scale. We believe in domain specialization, and we believe that we have to grow faster than the market in the phase in which we are in. I think we over a period of years have given you a 23% CAGR on the asset side of the business, and domains have run that business. And you will continue to find domains getting added as we talk about the new strategy. I think you will see that domains have been a very, very integral part of our business. And again, they did not grow, we did not grow our businesses. Deposits also help, people may [Indiscernible] 21% CAGR on the deposit side of the franchise. And I think we will continue to see the growth. I think the retail growth will be higher than the asset growth as we move forward in our businesses. Our branch expansion has continued. We continue to believe in the branches. We are at 2,345. We will end this year at 2,500, and we will talk how we will come and how we will do our branch expansion. And we've continued to invest in our employees. I think we have 36,000 employees in the bank roles. We have another 28,000 employees in Bharat Financial and another 17,000 employees in IMFS. So we are a very, very large distribution and a capability, which we have built over a period of time. The bank, however, and we must realize, face external and internal challenges. And I think concerns on the corporate group -- I think our corporate book, I think there were 5 accounts, 5 relationships which bled us. And I think we took inordinate highly exposures on them. And I think that's a learning which we've invited to the team. If you look at our corporate bank today, I can tell you it's very, very granular and very, very -- so I think we've learned from those experiences, and we've gone ahead and moved ahead. I think government deposit -- and that's where the granularization of liabilities is happening as a consequence. I think our high-impact items, high-touch contact business has got affected during COVID. Microfinance business as well as our CFD business did get effect during the COVID period. I think we've countered that and we've come out of it very, very fine. Even if you look at the restructured book, we did not restructure microfinance so much because we believe that restructuring is not meant, but we restructured the bus segment, where we believe that there is a value proposition. We believe in the medium and heavy commercial vehicle where there was a value preposition. We did not restructure the personal vehicle segment. We did not restructure cars. We did not restructure scooter. Whatever small amount we restructured is because of the political pressure, which we had to do it. I think otherwise, our restructuring was to do only valid restructuring. We did not restructure BBG so much. We did not restructure card so much. We did not restructure personal loans. I do not believe they are meant to be restructured. It's better to let them flow and take the hits as and when. That is how I can surely say I carry a book which is much more stronger than ever before because I've not restructured anything which is not meant to be restructured. And I think if you look at it, the banks profit over a period of time, I think has grown gradually except for 1 year where we talk -- we saw a dip because of the COVID and we took more provision. I think the bank is back. And I think already you would have seen quarter 2 results. We've delivered a ROA of 1.81% and a profit of about INR 1,800 crores. And I can only tell you, what you will see from us is the granularity of the profit, and no volatility in our earnings as we move forward. So you will continue to see this growth happening, but at a very stable pace and at a compounding pace. So you will see that as we go along in this business criteria. And we are very well covered on our provisions. And I think these related contingent provisions and of TCR is 72%. All books are at 100% -- 95% to 100% except, CFD where we believe we've done a PCR of 40% because there's a repossession, and the loss on sale of repossession is 30% -- 25% to 30%. Otherwise, all our books with the -- corporate, we provide 100%; future, I provide 100%. You go to microfinance, 95%. You go to cards, 100%. I have created more, and I believe that's the right way to provide a 90 DPD rather than carrying and testing your losses over a period of time. I don't believe in that. And I think that's the right way to run these businesses, and that is why these businesses are doing what they are doing as we move forward. I think the bank responded, and I think we created the PC5 vector. And I think our PC5 theme was scaled with sustainability, which changed scale with profitability to sustainability. And I think there was a very big -- the learning was how do you create sustainable growth with scale without creating volatility and such issues in the business, which we face in. And I think the 5 themes which we adopted in that period were leapfrog digital banking, and we will see how digital has played a role when the digital presentation comes into play; fortifying liabilities and when you hear consumers presentation, how have we fortified and how have we grown higher than the market in this space and what we have done; scaling up domains of expertise, I've always said domains creates value and domains will continue to invest in new growth engines, and we will talk about what are the new growth engines and how they have performed; and conservative and robust practices, specifically on credit, on technology and on operations, and how the governance has created a very big role as we play -- move forward in the business. I think strategic priorities were retail liability search, and we gave a target of 48% to 52%. We will come at -- by the end of this year, we should be at 42% to 43%. And so we move to 48% to 52% as we move forward because the liability has grown faster -- overall liability. Fine-tuning the corporate bank approach, completely completed. And I think corporate bank is now ready for scale, and you will see scale coming back in corporate bank. Holistic rural banking, and you will see how rural banking is the new -- people talk about Bharat. We already had Bharat and how holistic rural banking and what contribution it has to our business. Scaling up of domains and how will we enhance the domains as we go forward and new growth boosters. I think these were the sustainability metrics. Ready-to-deposit ratio, less than 95%. We were around 116%. And I think we said we will should be between 92% to 95% and how we've maintained that. Certificates of deposit between 5% to 10%. We have less than 5% right now on the certificate of deposit. The retail LCR between 45 and 50, you will see how closer we will get, even 19%. And now we've moved ahead on the LCR deposits. Unsecured retail in the credit card and personal loan and in the nonretail assets, less than 5%. Because we have the microfinance book, we continue to be 3.5% to 4% one that book. I think PCR is greater than 65%. We are at 72% of the book. And lower nonfunded to funded ratio, we are lower to nonfunded ratio right now. I think we also gave our numbers. We said our loan growth will be between 15% to 18% CAGR, and we will meet that number this -- because this year's growth will be in 20s. I think the CASA ratio is greater than 40%. We are already at 42%, 43% on that. Our revenue growth exceeds balance sheet happening. Our revenue growth is exceeding. PPOP loans will be greater than 5%. We are at 5.6% to 6%, and I'll show you the trend is greater than 5.5% today. Branch network, 2,500 we will achieve. And customer base, I think we will end up at 33 million to 34 million because it got affected with the COVID, COVID 2 wave to a large extent. And that year, the acquisition was lower at that point of time. I think -- so once -- this is the background on what the planning cycle. So where are we today? What have we done which is so differentiated? And are we really leapfrog into the future as we're talking about? I think if you look at -- all the 8 areas, whether it was liabilities, whether it was corporate bank approach, whether it was maintaining healthy margins, operating profit margins, continued investments on growth boosters, I think we have achieved each one of them, and I will go into details. I think look at these items and when you go through the foundation for the growth is almost there. Yes, on granularization of a liability is a journey. It will reach another 2 years to get there. But we are already very stable on our funding and the growth profile of the business. So let's start with liabilities. And that's the talking point these days, and I put that as the first slide. 80% of our growth which has happened has happened on liabilities in the retail part of the business. That's one message which I want to give you. All our growth which is coming in now in liabilities is granular growth. It is not bulky money which is coming in totally. We are very, very focused on granularization of liabilities as we move. And this has happened as a consequence of our [NPV] shaping up. And the [NPV] which has shaped up has shapen up to about 0.5 million accounts, which is gone. And I think that is the run rate increase which I think in a quarter which you've seen on the business, which has happened. And I think what you've also seen is the narrowing difference, differential with large [Indiscernible] in the distribution network. We continue to invest in distribution. So a lot of banks, for example, our peers or -- stopped investing in distribution. We continue to invest in distribution as we move forward and scaled up the new initiatives. Affluent and NRI came into their own. In a very tough scenario, affluent and NRI delivered outstanding results for the bank as we do it. And our cost of deposits went down. And during this time, when the market is up 190 basis point, we are up 50 basis points. So I'm showing you the cost of deposits also and the impact. It is because the long-term nature of the liabilities which came into play. Of course, the liability will increase the cost for deposits, but it will not be at the same pace as what our market or the repo rate increase. And of course, our reduced concentration of deposits. We're now at top 20 depositors [Indiscernible] and we believe we will end this year at 13% or more. So we are already in line with the big banks on all this. We were 27%. We bought it down over a period of time. So I think there has been -- all these 6 vectors show you what? They reflect that the bank is on the right track and a dependency on the bulk deposits on the market borrowings has reduced substantially. The large bulk deposit rates today are at 7.9%. They were at 5.5%, 5.6% about 6, 9 months back. If my dependency was high of 30%, 40%, my cost of deposits should have increased at a faster pace than what it has increased right now. Please understand this that dependency is reducing on market borrowings and on costs, and as a consequence, the granularization of liability has come into play. And these will continue to be 50 to 75 basis point, higher than the market on our pricing, which was 200 basis points earlier. We said till the time I achieve 48% to 52% in Basel III LCR norms. Strong liquidity buffers. And this is a question where I think a lot of confusion gets created and how the growth will get sustained. The questions are about growth. The question is -- are about sustainability. I think our LCR ratios are at 125%. All banks, good, bad, ugly, we are in the top on the LCR. We've continued to maintain our LCR ratio at 123%, with buffer in place on average liquidity. We continue to maintain liquidity. I could have increased my NIM by reducing the liquidity. I would have dropped my liquidity, and I would have improved the NIM because I'm lending at a very low rate in the reverse repo market. But I said for the sake of the organization and sake of growth, continue to maintain liquidity for the tough times, and we continued to maintain liquidity. And I think our credit deposit ratio reflects that will not overleverage the market. Our dependency on certificate of deposit is 3%. Our dependency on borrowing has gone down to 13%. And in the borrowing, 50% of our borrowings -- and this is what the funding franchise comes because of the domain specialization businesses which we have, we get funding from SIDBI, NABARD at very attractive rates. So for example, we just picked up money from SIDBI in the month of October at 4.5% for 3 to 5 years money, which has no stack cost, no regulatory costs. So 80% margin plus -- our portfolios are eligible for refinance from the developmental associations, whether it's international, whether it's domestic. And we get funding, and we can raise this to 20%-22% at any point of time. It's just that we want to remain at a bar of 15% to 20%, and that's why we've not grown that business. It is refinanced and we don't. And if you look at our short-term foreign currency, it's only 5%. Against the market at 8% or 7%, we are at 5%. All others are long-term borrowing money for us. We are not going and doing borrowings at a different level and doing short-term funding. We'll not do that. So our funding profile gives us the capability to manage the liquidity and manage our growth, and that is where you will see our cost of funds. The cost of deposits is higher. Our cost of fund is only 25 to 40 basis points higher than the market because of the capability which we have, because of the businesses which we possess. I've talked about corporate bank, and you will hear the presentation, but I can tell you on restructured book has run off with very less left now, I think what is our standard book has now gone in 0.5% and go to 0.3% as we move forward. Our corporate book franchise is now very granular and very capable of running the business and is now pivoting towards the growth. What did we do in the corporate bank? And while Sanjeev will go into details on the corporate bank, I think the granular book has come into play. If you will look at this book now, it had long-term and large concentration. I think that has gone away in the business. And I think we have taken -- we sold it down or whatever hits had to be taken we've taken and we've moved on with it. I think portfolio rebalancing has been done to chunky exposures. I think the credit has come out very, very beautifully. We've understood and we've rewritten the rules of the game on the credit side. I think big specializations on specific verticals, 5 verticals, which we believe are very important: health, RE, NBFCs, logistics and education and one more. I think it's agri. The 5 businesses and all of the verticals, and you see the growth on those verticals which [Indiscernible] book. RoRWA focus is a very clear focus, and we believe this with the reduced NIMs and everything can still deliver a 2% RoRWA. And I think what the focus on 2% RoRWA is a very, very important thing. And fee income is more granular than what it was earlier. So there is no investment banking income. You would have seen it. Their fee-to-asset ratio still is between 1.6% to 1.7%. They cannot deliver 2.4% because it's become very granular. And it does not depend on any bulky fees, which is coming in to play. I think this is something which I just wanted to share. I think this is the advantage of domains. Our book is at least 30% to 40% better on 60 DPD and 90 DPD, and this is indexations than the market. Whether it's microfinance, whether it's CFD, we are much better than the market. And I think this is a testimony of what domain specializations and what businesses which we have. And when people say, "Oh, they have a high-risk, high-return book." I do not believe we have high-risk, high-return book. I think we have businesses which are prone to high risk, which are managed very well, and the bank gives [Indiscernible] provisions against those businesses to reduce the volatility in the earnings. And please understand, these 2 businesses have done fantastically and come up very well now. And our gems and jewelry, which we go this is a very high... We have no SMA, no restructuring, no SMA-1, no SMA-2 in this business. And this is what we like. This is a slide which I like the best, stable NIMs. Our NIMs have been range bound, and this is what we should get from us. Granularization, our investment banking fees has disappeared. Our fee mix has moved towards consumer. Our fee mix is not dependent on bulkier deals. Our fee -- our corporate fee is coming from very granular effects and trade as a consequence. Very different fees. Our range-bound is cost-to-income ratio. It may go up, but it will come back. It's range-bound, 41% to 43%. It will be up right now for some time, and it will come back because it's range-bound, the operation leverage is coming back. And I think which is important. PPOP margins, which is among the best in the industry, range-bound. We are not fluctuating on our businesses and healthy provision coverage, again range-bound and with significant contingent provision study. So I think the vectors of the business look very, very solid as we move forward, very range-bound, very, very fortified as a consequence of the provisions and the contingent provisions which we carry. And the businesses which we carry, we will continue to deliver improvement in margins as we move forward. And when you hear the [Indiscernible], you see how our margins will improve as a consequence of the stability which we have created in our businesses. And this is, I think, a new investments which we did, our rural businesses have gone into 18% of the book -- sorry, can you get the presentation back, please? Yes, our net relationship value on an affluent. And when you talk about affluent, why are these guys getting into affluent? We are not a big wealth management team. You will see how the strategy has played out. If you played the wealth way, you would have lost the business completely. We cannot compete in the wealth right now. We don't have an AMC. We don't have an offshore branch. We completed in our expertise and created the wealth as a consequence of our expertise. And you look at the affluent banking, and you will see how the business is doubling almost every second year as a consequence of it. Our NRI banking, in spite of NRR and our sustained flows going down and our ability to retain those going down because they were all being used for consumption. I think the NR book has continued to grow. We are now at 2.8% of the market. We should end the year at about 3%, 3.2%. We continue to grow this business as a consequence. Our tractor finance, we have 10%, 9.5% of the market. And we are third in this market. A lot of this business is with Kotak and some NBFCs. Kotak is #1 in it. We are #2 in it. And I believe we should continue to see the scale-up on this. Affordable housing is a little bit of a disappointment. We thought we will touch INR 4,000 crores this year. I think we're still getting our act together on the affordable housing, but it's a business which we like. And we continue to grow within the CFD domain because clients belong to that domain. And our merchant advances, a new line of business which we have created, I think we will touch about INR 3,500 crore by the end of this year, INR 4,000 crore. And you should see this business going to INR 10,000 crore in the next 2 year. This is a business which comes at 23.6% yield at a fee of 3% or 3.5% to 4% and at a credit cost of 2.5%. So fantastic business which we have created. Rural [Indiscernible] tier business doing fantastically well, a very differentiated business through the Bharat Financial franchise. And of course, we continue to invest in our people. I think the structure in the corporate bank is a testimonial of how we've created the structure on our people. Our digital unit has been created as a separate deal, and 100 people are on board. We've created a digital experience center. I think it's a completely different capability which we've created. And I think our governance, our social -- and our audit, we have created a completely different assurance function in the bank to make sure that all the 3 units of the bank, which is risk management, compliance and internal audit, come together and create an assurance function for the bank, which is very, very critical as we move forward. We are the only one who also created a system and a capability to manage the assurance function as we move forward. I talked to you about risk management. I think the learnings have been imbibed into our capability. I think we are focused now on granular loans and very, very -- and working capital loans. It's not that we don't do term loans, but we do term loans for clients who have working capital loans as a consequence. I think conservatively, we are focused on sector focuses. We've reduced the focus. So you've not grown our RE exposure. It's still at INR 41,000 crores. We've maintained that as a consequence. So I think that's something which we've done, tightened our overall group exposures, as well as sectorial exposures. I think data has played a very big role. We've invested in data analytics. We've invested in early warning signal systems. And I think an analytical team, which has been created in the risk management unit, is completely different. We've updated our policies and procedures here. So there were policies and processes which had not been renewed for 9 years as the business has moved. We've now got a completely different automated system to track our policies, procedures and governance around that. And I think Launched Digital Management Policy Module ensuring timely review of these policies and procedures. So I think our risk management -- our operational risk management has completely changed in the bank. And that is very important for you to know that the bank is not talking about numbers, but talks about compliance, governance and culture of the organization as we move forward. And of course, on technology, I think our focus on technology has been on [Indiscernible] different things. One is, how do we create scale and manage scale. I think in today's environment, how do we create and manage scale? And what is the infrastructure which we use? What should be on cloud? What should not be on cloud? Should we invest on our own infrastructure? I think we found our answers. And I believe we have a very robust acknowledged by the RBI that we have one of the best technology infrastructures which we see. For example, we created enterprise payment hub much ahead of the others, where payments instead of going through one group, can actually get stored and forwarded at a very different time because [Indiscernible] system has limitations to process transaction. It's how you manage the volume of transaction and how you create capabilities has been -- that's the #1 capability which you pay. Customer experience is our [Indiscernible]. What is the UI/UX capability which you will create? How do you create personalization into the -- what are the type of applications you need to create personalizations? What do you need to do to do that? And I think we invested in those applications. Our front-end capabilities and camping management modules now it's not -- you download and do it. It is interactive with the clients at the point. Your new capability which you've created, we personalize your screens, personalize your thing as to what you want and what transactions you're doing, and what is important. For example, if a bill is due, the first screen on mobile screen will show you your bill is this much, due on this day, but your balance is this much. Do you need to use the line of credit to pay the bill? That's the type of -- screen change -- this is your personal. So if you're doing a shopping, did you know that you also have a shopping offer next to your house at this -- so it's very, very personalized and it's very intuitive to what you are doing as of now. So you'll see a very differentiated experience in this, I think, talk like IT, cybersecurity, best infra. I cannot ever say we've gone ahead of the market, but we are with the market on investment decisions on cybersecurity and our product innovation, and I think we will continue to invest in product innovations on IT to create the structure which we want to create. I think when people are struggling on IT, I can tell you we invested last 2 years. And as we talk with INR 700 crores of capital expenditure in the IT to get to more new things as we move forward because we want to keep ahead of the pace on the IT, and that's our backbone, we've invested heavily into the IT space as we move along. And of course, our HR, and I think we never talk about it. I think the type of things we've done, we believe that employees create a long-term brand and a reputational value. We've not seen any attrition in 1, 2, 3, 4, up to 4 levels in the organization. Where we've seen attrition is in the front-end level. And we are coming out with an employment engagement strategy there also. I think the type of initiatives which we've rolled out -- I think, for example, we actually rolled out a program of -- under [Indiscernible] for women in the organization. We do paternity leaves for parents and when they have babies up to and N number of -- and 30 days of paid leave can be taken during the year at any point of time. That's the type of things which we do for our employees. And I think we don't talk about it. Everybody would do a learning module, chatbot or mobile app, but what we do, we add that little bit of personalization into our employees. And I think that is very important. And that is the stickiness. Employees who stick with us post 1 year stay with us forever. Our attrition is within the first 12 months. It is not after 12 months. And that is where we are addressing the core issues. And I think if you want to become the employer of choice, and you will hear it later in the presentation. As we grow our organization, employees play a very, very important and very critical roles as brand ambassadors of your organization. And we are investing on our employees. And this is what we moved. I think sustainability credit to deposit ratios, less than 95%. I think our certificate of deposits continue to be at 5% to 10%. Our retail LCR continues to be at 45% -- 41% against 45% to 50%. Our unsecured retail is at 4.3%. Our PCR is at 72%, and our lower funded ratio at 2.85x. So we are completely aligned to the way we said on the sustainability. We met all our sustainability index, which we had set for ourselves with the Board. And it is with the Board and it's in my KPI that these are the sustainability metrics which we will do. And of course, now I'll come to the third part. So this is what has happened. How do we go from there? What is the growth parameters for this organization as we move forward? I think there are, again, 6 parameters which we are going to face the growth on. I think loan growth acceleration. I now believe this bank is ready to 23% to 25% CAGR. Bank will deliver a 23% to 25% CAGR as we move forward into planning cycle 6. I continue to believe that this is what the bank is all about. This bank was not about 10% to 12% growth. This bank is about 23% to 25% with sustainability metrics in place. So the only difference is sustainability will come into play in all our businesses as we do. Deposit mobilization will continue till we achieve 48% to 52% Basel III LCR. We will continue to give interest rates. It's not that we will stop the deposit mobilization, but our whole focus is granularization of liability because we've seen as the interest rate cycle rose, we did not -- if we were 40%, 45% bulk deposits that we were, our cost of deposits would have risen very fast compared to the other. That is the issue. And the cost of deposit has started more -- while you may give a higher, but the moderation in the cost of deposits and high interest rate cycle happens because of the retail and deposits, which come into play. Leapfrogging digital. You will see us a big player in digital. We are -- our experience is that we should be 5 million accounts in 3 years with a balance sheet of INR 25,000 crores in digital. That is the balance sheet which we want to create in digital. We want to be the biggest player in digital. And we will come become -- we have a digital completely different BU created. And I think they have a business and a P&L number which they are going to go after. New growth boosters, and we will talk about the new growth. We've identified a new growth boosters for PC6. And you will see how new growth boosters will accelerate our business as we move into. Becoming the employer of choice. I told you, you can't -- now your task -- if you are going at 23% to 25%, that means balance sheet will touch INR 550,000 crores to INR 600,000 crores on assets. If that is the funded asset balance sheet which you're going to get, you've got to be the employer of choice. Your people matter. You can go digital. It doesn't -- it's about people. And I think whoever you have in the organization, you have to become the employer of choice. And I think the employer of choice creates a value in itself for the organization. That's the theme which we are going to play with. And sustainable banking. ESG will play a very important role in how we grow our business as we move forward. We've already inbuilt this into our credit, into our lending now. We are the only bank when you talk about ESG, yes, who's in the Dow Jones Index. And I think we've got the best Euromoney Award on the ESG right now. So I think we are -- we are very, very strong on ESG. And I think that the type of businesses which we do lend itself to ESG also automatically. So I think we will talk about it. So ESG is a foundation on which we will -- and it's a huge booster for us as we grow our business. I think domains will lead the growth. I continue to believe that we will be -- we will maintain our market share or increase the market share in our domains. You will see us focusing on domains, and I think we will be ahead of the market on growth. That means we are gaining market share on these. Now I think these are businesses which have done well, and we will continue to maintain our domains. And I think most of our domains are coming from cyclical lows as of now in the last 2 to 3 years. And I think we have a huge opportunity there. Grow corporate bank. And when people talk, oh, would you grow the -- we will continue to grow. I have always said, our business will tend towards 55% to 60% towards retail and 40% to 45% towards corporate. It's not that we will stop the corporate growth. It is very important to get the risk-weighted assets in the bank growing at the right pace because all retail businesses come at 75% to 100% risk weight, whereas corporate bank comes at a very different risk weight, depending on which assets you do as a consequence of that. And scaling up subspace, specifically the nonvehicle assets. And I think there is a huge opportunity to more than double the book in the next 3 years. And I think you will see that in the presentation. I think deposit mobilization. And I think our core is very strong. And then I will give you some themes where Soumitra can expand. I think the segmentation which we do in a pool is completely different from the segmentation which we do. Our market share on liabilities is about 1.7% against Kotak maybe 1.8%. But in the home markets which we operate in, we are 3.4%. And we want to expand our home markets and go to 5% in the home bank. That's a very differentiated strategy on universal banking. We focus on segments. We don't focus on [Indiscernible]. We are not in the salaried segment. We focus on NRI. We focus on affluent. We focus on business owner. And as we go forward, we've done client segmentation. We will focus on communities. I believe India is very vast. If you look at [Indiscernible] Bank, [ING Vysya], for example, it's a community-based bank. I think there are different communities, which may not be on cast, maybe on business. Example, Diamond is a community. We are very big on Diamonds. We're #1 in the world. There are 1 million workers which are employed in Diamond. They have a INR 1 lakh average salary. Look at the opportunity which we are setting on. If you go into another segment like doctors, we don't have to go to doctors. Everybody goes to -- go to cardiologists and the gynecologists. It's a very different opportunity of different picture. So I think we've identified 5 segments like this. And we believe community driven room, playing with the ecosystem is a very differentiated way of doing liability. The next phase of our growth will happen through home markets and community banking. Community banking will take a very different way of life in this bank as we move forward. Continue scaling up a new affluent -- doubling our book on an affluent, doubling our book on NRI segment. Our SME and business banking will continue. They come with liabilities and of course the rural banking. The micro banking and which you will hear JS talking about is a huge liability wallet which we are waiting to get. And rest, I think merchant acquiring acquisition gets to 35% of that asset growth comes in the liability business. Because of this, they are self-funded. Agency business of the government of India and digital initiative focus on individuals, which I said that if you can create a INR 25,000 crore book, we are completely out of the issue as far as the liability is concerned in the way forward. And of course, this is the road map I think where we've enabled -- we've created capabilities. We have the best capability on credit card and personal loan today. We can do churn out of credit card in 2 minutes. We can churn out a personal loan in 3 minutes, completely automated, completely digital capability. We are churning out individual loans of SME in less than INR 2 crore, approval rates in less than 5 minutes as we move forward. And what we will see the individual launch and the SME digital, a completely holistic capability, segmented capability coming into play in the next six months. So you will see in the first quarter of the financial year, this financial -- calendar year, sorry, you will see the individual launch. In the second quarter, you will see the SME launch coming into play. And of course, the scaling up of new existing vectors, I've talked about affluent, NRI banking. Tractor finance is another vector, which we believe in. We believe it's a great business. It adds to the agri. We want to be #1, and it stated #1 financial in tractor finance. We want to be that. Affordable housing, if we are not able to do it, we'll go the inorganic route. But we want to scale up in affordable housing, MSME and the merchant acquisition business. And all these businesses will be very, very large-scale businesses in the bank. And adding new growth boosters. And I think, home loans, we've started the home loan business. We believe in 2 years, we will have INR 10,000 crore to INR 15,000 crore book in the home loans. Aside, we will -- investment banking is going to get launched this year. You will see the investment banking coming into play. We've had the team, we've grounded the team for the last 6 months to 9 months, and you will start seeing the results in the short while from now. And of course, para banking is a very big area where we want to get into. We continue to await RBI's approval, but I think it's an area where we believe we can make a huge impact in. And of course, I don't want to comment on it, but I think employer of choice may mean different things to different individuals. I think the more important part, I think, is the environment and the cultural which we create in the business as a policy. I think what we do, we have a steady progression, and I think we have a continuum. So all our senior managers now, going forward, will come as a consequence of the internal. So while we will higher 20% from outside, 80% will be all in-grown talent. We have enough move now, and we believe all our branch managers, regional heads, zonal head, and the various other segments, operations head, will all come internally. We are not going to hire from the market as we move along. And I think pay or benefits -- market-linked by pay and benefits. And I think the pride and trust has to come into play as we move forward. I think in next 2 years, you should see us being the employer of choice in the banking industry as we move along. And of course, we've talked about it. I think we've done a lot of work on the ESG side. I think our teams have played out on the ESG. I think our credit is all about having -- I think we're going to now launch differentiated products for women, solar financing, EV car finance. We are going to create products, which are linked to the ESG business, and are going to get into it. So green deposits is one such example. But I think there are differentiated products, and diversity and inclusion will be a big thing which we will do. So whether it's in our employee port, whether it's with women entrepreneurs, I think diversity will play a very, very big role as we move forward in our business. Of course, and this is the planning cycle 5. I don't want to repeat it. We are already meeting our objective of it. Again, so what are the themes of planning cycle 6. And I think this is an important thing. I think domains do contribute greater than 50% of our business, it's 43%. That means our domains will continue to be very, very strong. We will maybe add 1 more domain as a consequence. But 50% to 55%, we will be a big bank in the businesses in which we do. So we are a large bank in the businesses which we do. We're #1 or #2 in that industry. So that is surge in client acquisition. We will acquire 500,000 accounts a month. We will increase our run rate to 400,000 with the digital moving to 500,000 a month. We will acquire 5 million customers, branch banking customers a year. And that is very, very important for us. From 1.2 million to 2 million, we will just surge it to a very different scale, a different level of business. I think continuous gain in the market share, specifically in vehicles, SME, MFI, cards and deposits. You will see us gaining market share in 5 businesses. And I think that is something we will continue to gain market share on. I think our Digital 2.0 will play a very, very big role, and I think you will see us being a very, very under different sub brands coming into play on digital everything. Home loans will play a very, very big role for us and private banking get launched, the bank as we move forward. I think sustainability to the core, I think ESG will play -- is a very dearer, and para banking, we await the license, but we want to get into 3 areas: AMC, securities and non-life. That's our stated intent. We want to get into these 3 areas. And these are the themes which will drive our business as we move forward. Ramping up of secured retail assets. And I think mortgage, affordable housing are 2 themes which we want to work on. [indiscernible] is the third theme which we want to work on. I think these are 3 businesses where we believe we can make a huge impact to the business. Micro banking in rural India. So when we talk about MFI, we're not going to do JIG only. JIG will be a very small part of our business, maybe from 90%, it'll go down to 60% of our business. 40% of our business will come from 3 other areas: merchant acquiring business, home improvement loans, loans against property in the self-occupied residential property and scooter loans. We will become very, very big in this. And -- we will create a book of INR 60,000 crores in micro banking and INR 20,000 crores to INR 25,000 crores will come in these areas of business. And the JIG business will be INR 30,000 crores to INR 35,000 crores. So -- but these also come at a very high yield as a business. Used vehicle sale up. We are going to become the biggest player in the used vehicles. We already have INR 3,500 crores at less than 1% delinquency at 15.5% yield. We believe this is an opportunity to go to INR 10,000 crores. We have a very big plan to grow this business. We want to be the #1 aggregator on used car business. And we have created a portal with creative capability, digital capability. You will see that launch. That's completely online real time with the aggregators on this business. We want to do that. INDIE Launch, which is our individual launch of the digital, and scale-up will be the next big opportunity on the digital side of the capability. Investment in distribution, we continue to go to 3,500 branches. I believe we should expand our distribution. India needs -- we need that type of distribution in the branches. We continue to expand that. Doubling of affluent and NRI, which is a very important initiative, including launch of private banking as a consequence of that. Digital SME and MSME penetration. Digital will play a very big role in this. We want to be a market leader in this business. And how we do it is a plan which we are coming out with. Imbibing ESG in our business. We continue to maintain #1 position in the ESG. We want to be the #1 player in the ESG. A lot of funding to the bank comes in -- capital comes in as a consequence of ESG, as a consequence, and I think we will pay. And I think addition of fourth domains. So you will see us adding a fourth domain. Whether it's -- I told you 50% to 55% of our portfolio will come from domain. We will add a fourth domain to our business, which will be a very 10% to 11% market share of that business, which will come in into us. Whether it's -- we've identified the businesses which we want. I think it's only a matter of time that you will see the domain coming up into the play. And of course, loan growth ahead of PC-5, so we said 16% to 18%. We are saying 23% to 25% growth rate. I think loan mix will change from 58% to 60% retail, 42% to -- 40% to 42% towards corporate. CASA ratio greater than 45%. We are saying we will be able to granularize and grow to 45%. I think PPOP/loans, we've raised the target from 5% to 5.5%. We are already at 5.6%. Branch network greater than [ 3,000 crores ] and a customer base of 50 million clients as a consequence. So that's all I had. I think I can answer any questions which you have right now and take it forward. Just if you can have the question-and-answer session for about 10 minutes. And the management team is here. If I'm not able to answer, some members of the management team can answer. You can raise your hands. Yes?

Sir, my question on the home loan product side. You said we are going to launch home loan product. So what is the target segment for that product? And secondly, would the yield -- basically yield and the -- targets customer segment for the product?

When you look at a home loan, please understand home loan never gives you a 2% ROI. Let me tell you [ 2% to 2.5% ]. It is a product which works between 1.3% to 1.4% ROI. But if you look at it as a product. But if you look at a customer, the customer profitability is very high because the customer ownership of product goes to about 5% to 6% on a home loan product. And I think our focus is to cater to our branch banking customers. Our branch banking customers are near mass affluent, affluent and above. So that's the market which we go on to the market side of our business. We are not interested in INR 10 lakh to INR 20 lakh or INR 30 lakh home loan products.

It will be rolled out to all our branches?

Which will be rolled out to?

All our branches.

We are rolling out to about 20 centers -- 20 states right now. We're not going to roll out pan-India.

Okay. Secondly, sir, on the tax spend side, you said INR 700 crores of something we have spent for last 2 years. So in terms of, one is the product innovation side and the new experience for the customer, and third is the team of -- you said 100-plus people working the digital side of activity. So in terms of our cost-to-income ratio, which is -- if I compare to other retail banks, our is on the higher side. Obviously, because of mix it is a higher side. When we'll see the benefit of those digital initiatives coming into in terms of better efficiency and better cost-to-income ratio?

Sir, if you're comparing us to HDFC, which is a 37%, it's wrong to compare. They are a balance sheet of INR 10 lakh crore, and the operating leverage comes into play. Operating leverage comes into play at a particular point of time. We've said our cost-to-income ratio should be in the range of 41% to 43%. We are at 44.6%. You should see the leverage coming back into play in the next 2 to 3 quarters, we will go back to 41% to 43%. And as a consequence, in the next 3 years, you should see us at about 38% to 39% operating leverage. But I think you should assess us on the PPOP margins rather than the operating leverage margin. It's very important because we'll continue to invest for growth. Yes.

Fourth domain, you mentioned para banking, AMC, retail broking, whatever. How soon do you see we getting approvals or scale starting that?

Para banking, I cannot comment. But the fourth domain will come in very soon.

So through acquisition or...

Inorganically or organically, I think we have a size, we've always grown through inorganically on the domains. But let's wait and watch.

Sumant, I just want to ask you at the rate at which you are going, I don't think you'll need capital for the next couple of years, if you are going to grow at 23% to 25%, generating a healthy ROE. Is that a correct statement or...

So we continue to assess our capital requirements every 6 months. And that is the way we should assess. And I think we don't want to be below CET1 of 14%. That is something which has created a hurdle rate for ourselves. I think in my view, the internal accruals are enough to take care of growth. I think we will, in 3 quarters from now, assess whether we need capital or not as of now. If there's an acquisition coming in way, we may need a capital at that point of time. But for the growth of the organically, I think what you say is right that we may not need the capital for some time.

So it's only the inorganic initiative, which will...

Or we feel that the macro environment is such, and we don't wait for the macro environment to get down to a level where capital is not available, we may raise capital at that point. So I think we don't need it right now. We'll evaluate in 2 to 3 quarters from now. And I'll come back to the -- we will inform you much before that we are raising capital. We don't need capital as of now. Yes, back -- somebody has to go back.

Sir, my question is on the retail deposits. So as you have set targets of 45% to 50%. But if you see in terms of strategy on liability or branch banking, it's on -- it's more focused on NRI or affluent banking, and community banking, which by nature are more wholesale in a way and less of retail, right? So how -- there's a disconnect between how we're going to bridge this gap on the retail deposits because the HNI or the affluent banking will bring in more wholesale or bulky deposits.

No, no, no. You're absolutely wrong. All HNIs coming with deposits of INR 1.5 crores to INR 2 crores, individual. They're actually individual. If you look at communities, it will all be individual. Home markets are all individual. They don't come in with these type of deposits, no.

No, we saw this trend in this quarter itself, how the HNI deposits, some of them actually ran down as we saw the rates go up.

No, ma'am. What ran down? It is absolutely wrong. What ran down was an agency account, agency account where RBI now has set on the nodal accounts with the transfer monies to the bank, whether it's shipping, whether it's transport sector, whether it's aviation sector, defense sector. They've taken off 5 sectors. And they said, on these agency account or help in these agency accounts, money will not go to the bank from the treasury. It will go directly to the end user. So they are now working through their own treasury. That is the reason. There is no such flow. It is a treasury flow of the Government of India, where they change the way the flows happen. All treasury flows used to happen to banks and from banks, it used to go to the other. Now they said, my flows will go to the end user. That's it. So for example, if you were to distribute money on the early subvention, it will directly go into the customer account. It will not come to the bank. That is the way our Government of India treasury is working now. It's not the HNI flow out. It's absolutely wrong.

Can I go ahead with the question? Sir, I wanted to understand your thoughts on the fintech partnerships. We see a lot of banks partnering with various fintechs with a viewpoint of acquiring customers probably coming at a low cost. So what's our thought process on fintech partnerships when it comes to adding new customers? That was the first question. The second question was also, a lot of banks are focusing on payment platforms. So payment, I believe, is a very big thing for the banks, but I probably missed out or did not hear anything on the payment platform strategy for the IndusInd Bank. So these 2 things, if you could highlight would be great.

So payments -- so let me answer the first, the fintech part. I think we continuously believe that collaboration is the way forward. I think the rules are getting more and more clear on the fintech relationships and how we have to move forward. I think the digital lending norm or the fintech relation data privacy laws are now coming into play. And I think these are laws which are preventing us from doing very deep-rooted fintech relationship. I think there is a way out now, which we feel is the way forward. We've just approved -- sent to the Board a note on how the fintech relationship. But I think -- please understand, I think while we will do collaborations and partnerships to get best in freed, which we do already, and you'll hear it in the digital presentation. But I think creating your own real estate asset is also very important as you move into the digital. So I think while partnerships will play a very big role, and you have to create value-added partnerships rather than core partnerships. So if people say savings account acquisition can come through a fintech partnership, I don't think it's a value addition. What can come through a fintech partnership is a merchant supply chain partnership to a right. So that is the way. You have to say where you create a value of a very different and complements you. Where you create a value to support you in what you are doing to scale up, I think you will suffer in the long run. It's my opinion in this. And I continue to believe banks which are saying that they are tied up with open or they're tied up with XYZ, and they will do the business, and they will start -- I think it's a great way to acquire a customer, but the customer is never theirs, and it will not do a cross-sell capability. The profitability of that customer is very negligible as a consequence of that. That's number one. On the payment side, I completely agree with you. I think there are 3 ways to do. One is to build your own stack. I think we have a payment capability now on UPI on payments, which we have created. We are also now in discussions with the digital. We have acquired a payment capability through M2P. We believe it's a very, very big initiative for us. In the digital, you will hear how that stack has been created and how payments is going to be [indiscernible]. We're also talking to a strategic partnership with the payment firm. And I think whether we take a participating stake or acquire, it is a different issue. But I think a strategic partner, with a participating stake in that place, in the payment space itself.

It was a great presentation. So I am RajoshiPalit. I am an ESG associate at Quantum Advisors. So I had certain questions with respect to social end of the bank. Now the bank is lagging behind its peers on gender diversity. So what steps is it taking to bridge the gap, first? And secondly, there was this entire executive exit, which happened in BFIL, and there were some issues with respect to proper procedure -- HR procedures, which were not followed. What kind of steps is bank taking to reduce such or remove such issues which can happen in the future?

So let me answer this. Gender diversity. So we are very cautious about gender diversity. I think if you look at the banking part of our business, you have a very good gender diversity. If you go to CMD welfare, very rural and a very different business, the gender diversity is low. So we have to say how do we balance that, that is the concern. Bharat Financial also, in the deep rural areas where you have to work, I think a little bit of a gender diversity issue comes out into play. So we are finding ways to address that. It's not simple to address it but we are finding ways to address those issues. And maybe the banking business becomes more gender diversified. In collections, in these areas, you can't put the gender diversity because it creates -- you can put them in telecalling sectors, but you can't put them at feet on street at that point of time. And I think we are cautious about that, and that is the reason. But our call centers are becoming more gender diversity based, and that is where we will balance this. So I think I'm -- we are very clean on the steps which we have to do, and you still see this moving to 21% to 22% from 18% what we are today to 21% to 22%, which is the best-in-class in the banking sector or in the industry. Now let's go to your second question. On the HR side, there were HR issues. I think there were multiple issues, not HR issues. I think the HR issue was that we did not know that these guys were looking out. So that's not an HR issue. It's a market issue, that the guy is looking out and doing a deal, that's not an HR issue. The HR issue is that there was a contract which said that they cannot take an employment anywhere for 12 months, but we found out legally that you can't reinforce the contract. Let me tell you, the applicability of a non-complete agreement, which is not registered in law and not available by law, can be done on good faith basis but cannot be reinforced if the person. You can do a case, but you can keep on filing that case. I can assure you there is no value addition of that. And specifically, the bank had to take control of the businesses. We were running it like a micro finance institution, and I think we sent [indiscernible] there to take charge of the business as a bank. And I think that is what you are saying. The agility of micro finance with the processes of the bank have come into play in the institutional. And as we talk, we are very comfortable with the micro finance business.

Just a question on the micro finance business, because your vision is to shift towards a micro banking sort of a structure. And with the changes in norms around individual loan exposure versus household debt, you yourself have mentioned that rejection rates have gone up. How do you see this micro banking vision strategy and a structural ROA of this division going forward?

In fact, it is in line with the strategy, what the RBI wants to do. Actually, it is in line. You're balancing the book, they were scared about overleveraging in the unsecured side. Let me be candid. That is what -- and what people were doing is people will move clients where we move into an unsecured business in the team of business loans, ADLS or whatever you call them, yes? And they were being given loans of INR 150,000 to INR 200,000. We said, going against the grain and giving INR 200,000 to INR 250,000 to a client who's [indiscernible] today are INR 40,000, is against the grain. There's a difference between intent and ability. And how do you find the right balance of intent and ability? And I think the right balance is, you have clients who are doing well, do their household assessment, create a scorecard and give them a secured lending as a consequence. And as they move forward, the secured lending and what it comes through, comes at 18% -- 16% to 18% and with a very secured self-occupied house in property or a home improvement loan or a scooter loan. All these yields are comparable to the individual yields. And the biggest thing is grow the working capital business in the Tier 3 to Tier 6 cities, where the yields are at 23% to 26%. And you can continue to work and that will balance out the yield if the home improvement of this comes at 6%. So the balancing of the book, while you continue to grow, the ROE of this business will continue to be between 4.5% to 5%. It will never be 7% because we will keep contingent provisions. Does this answer your question? Yes. I'm there. You can ask me more questions, we have to get or we will -- you'll hear the individual presentations. I'm available for any questions throughout the day. And I think during lunch, we can have an informal chat also. I think, thank you so much, and thank you for coming and spending your day with us. Thank you so much.

So a very good morning, and thanks for joining us. I think Sumant's -- the first, I think, I would say, 1.5 hours, I think really give you some insights of how we are running the business and what are the future, what are the beliefs which we have. So I -- my name is Soumitra Sen. I look after the consumer bank. I have additional responsibility of also handling the marketing for the organization. Been with the organization for the last 14, 15 years now, so was in the same pack of 2008 when we came in from ABN AMRO to IndusInd. And prior to taking over the consumer bank, I was handling the branch banking business. That was there for the last 11, 12 years before I graduated to get the consumer bank. Now as Sumant was mentioning, consumer, yes, it's about liabilities, assets. Just to give you a bit of that what consumer stands for, for the organization. If you look at the balance sheet on the liability side, it's anywhere between 65% to 67% is consumer, okay? And if you add the affluent business, okay, which is a subset out there, even add another 12%-odd. So around, you can say 80% of the overall consumer deposits on the liability side is between consumer and affluent. There is also a small piece at the BFIL, which I think J.S. will cover in the afternoon. If you look at the asset side. Assets, if you look at the non-vehicle, okay, we will be around 11% to 12%. As of today, it's a INR 27,500 book, will at least go to a INR 30,000-plus by the end of this financial year. And if you add the BBG, which is INR 12,000-odd, then the overall book is around 17% to 18-odd percent of the overall asset book. On the fee side, I know without even affluent, we are around [ 50% ] plus, okay? He spoke about 71%, rest obviously, there is an affluent and there's macro finance and CMD, but 50%. So consumer is a big dominant, I would say, view for the organization. To start off, I think we actually take pride that as an organization, we -- especially on the consumer side, we are a very differentiated organization. And I will actually explain why we say differentiated because somebody was asking about why we look at NRI, why we look at Pioneer, why not salary account or whatever. It's not that we don't do the BAU business of household accounts, or the salary accounts. But also understand that, okay, in this commoditized market, okay, IndusInd slightly laggard out there, right? We don't do -- on paper, we have 27 or 28 years of vintage, but the actual consumer bank out of that is only in the last 12 to 14 years is what we have done. So when you talk salary, when you talk the household, yes, we are there. Those are BAU business for us. But can I take a dominant market share over there, perhaps not. And I will talk more of that. So how we still get to that market share gain? Because at the end of the day, two, three things are the leader I keep on. What is the market and how much market share I gain? It is not internal focused, it's external focused, okay? So we have to create those differentiation to move ahead of the pack. And that's why we actually claim that, okay, we are differentiated in our business unit. So the way I have actually paced out is that we'll talk about our core, Sumant spoke about the bank, I'll talk about what consumer core believes are. The team, because I'm a firm believer that it's the people who actually makes a difference. The leadership, the thought process, which is there actually makes a difference. So I'll talk about the leadership team. And what are the building blocks for this differentiated thing. And I'll talk about the distribution. I will talk about the segment strategy, which we have. I'll talk about the intelligence, the client intelligence we put in. We'll talk about how we are trying to grow the asset side of the book, okay? And obviously, not to let go as the service levels and what we are doing to improve those. And obviously, at the end, I will give a bit of some kind of a direction or a guide that what consumer will be delivering in the next 2 to 3 years. So what are the core beliefs? I think Sumant touched on that. And this is not today, we always believed that India is a phygital model. It will never be digital, and obviously cannot be just a physical model, okay? What has changed? We have been if you -- there's a slide which we'll show you is that, across the last 8, 9 years, we have been opening branches. Every year, we open around 200, 250-odd branches. Except 1 year, during the peak of COVID between '20 and '21, we open 100 branches, or else we have been opening. We believe that the experience will come from visiting the branches, but the convenience factor will come through digital, obviously. And you will see our account opening is around 90%, 95% digital. The processing which we do is around 90% digital. So that is an enabler, which is already there. But will the physical model go off? No, the formats of the branches have changed. To cut down the CapEx, we used to open previously 2,500, 2,600 square feet branches, large mega branches. Today, if you see even in a metro branch, I'm at a 1,100, 1,200, and it's a boutique branch. It's a more of a sales and service branch. Operations are centralized. So OpEx is actually cut down by 50%, but we are still there. And I think Sumant showed that, okay, we will end this year at 3,500 and we will add another 1,000, rather we'll end at 2,500 and add on the 1,000 to get to 3,500 by PC-6. So we will keep on opening the accounts. What actually is helping is that, if you look at the artificial intelligence and the machine learning, when these are getting integrated, what -- that's a bank we are getting the benefit as that, we can anticipate in our client needs. So we have become much more intuitive, okay? We have been able to service them better. So that's the digital part, which is playing out with phygital. So but as a bank, we believe phygital is the model ahead. Sumant spoke about the domains. Within consumer also, we have domains. We have NR as a domain, and I will -- we have slides. I will not take much on that now, I'll explain it later on. We have home markets in the domain. We have the affluent as a domain. We keep on the business owners because, especially on a developed market, which is the metros, will you be able to play with your household and the salary? I think perhaps we are late. We can still make a mark by getting into the business owner segment and there -- from there on getting into the wealth of the promoters, directors and the staff. So there are different ways of doing it. So business owners also is a domain. And I will talk about how we will expand on those. Data intelligence. To me, it is not about the wealth of data or the analytics. It is all about how you make these data into more tangible, actionable and a bite size where the execution team can actually absorb and actually can convert. Because data intelligence or data as such doesn't mean. But if I can make it into bite-size, I can give it to the frontline and my sales guy, the RMs, the SGMs, when they speak to the client, if I can give the -- what are the next best offers. I think that makes a difference. So that's all what we stand for, and we have been working over time on this part. The assets. Assets is for two reasons to me. One, obviously, it gives a very healthy yield. Our gross flows are practically now coming into -- in line with the market. I don't see any risk down the line. But what actually it helps is, for the liability business, because most of your question is liability is that it helps me to get fonder for my liability business. For the credit card guy whom I bring in, the personal loan guy whom I bring in, the lab guy whom I bring in, I'm being able to open the savings account and current accounts. So it's also a fonder to my liability business. This is a team, and I spoke about myself, I don't need to speak. If you look at the -- in the team, especially on the left-hand side, all these people joined along with us when we came in 2008. Ritesh, Vikas, they are the products and the program guys sitting in the country office. Ritesh looks after the personal banking repayments, and Vikas looks after the all important business owner segment, the NR and the GBG business, the government business. We have done 2 new fresh recruits on the market. Sai Giridhar, who has come in as the Head of Retail Assets. One year old in the system, but around 26, 27 years of experience, was with us in Banco ABN AMRO moved on to HDFC for a decade or so and then joined us from Yes Bank. So a solid guy, some of you may know him, solid ground on the retail assets. [ Vinith ], again, looking out of the all-important branch banking because that's where the distribution and that's where all the liabilities and the asset growth will happen. Again, ICICI Bank for some 17, 18 years; Yes Bank, for the last 3, 4 years; has joined us from there. So both these recruits are very experienced in their own fields. And you have the Head of Wealth Management, which is the insurance and investments, a gentlemen by the name of Ashish, has been there with us for a decade now. Good part is on the functions, the support function, and Sumant spoke about the governance model. So what we have done? One big change, which I think Sumant encalculated when he came into the thing is that, have a compliance which is policy and processes in-built into your business. So Manish Jain joined us from Axis, around 26, 27 years of experience. So he keeps on going through -- it's like in a concurrent audit within the system. The policies are getting implemented there or not? What are the deviations? Is there any rate deviation? Is there process deviation? So that said, even before the bank audit picks up, he keeps on doing it every month on month, and quite a lot of help I've got from this. Then you have the head of the design or what we call the solution delivery, okay, has a dual reporting, reports directly to Anil, who looks after the general operations of the bank and a second line to me because all the product developments and all to see the light of the day, he's the guy who helps me out. And then you have the marketing and the HR functions. Now what has changed? I think this is a very important slide, and I was also explaining some notes just before the presentation held. That we did a presentation to the buy side, maybe a quarter back, and now we are doing it -- that time we did for the sell side, now we are doing for the buy side. The retail growth, okay? Everybody is talking about it's got muted. The industry is growing at 9%, 9.5%. Assets are growing at 16.5%, 17%, 17.5%. How the hell will you be able to do it? And I will talk more about it. But if you look at our performance, okay, we are growing 3% quarter-on-quarter on the retail side. We have jumped it up to 4.7% last quarter. So in this market, yes, you can survive, we can do better. So that's what we have done. On the interest side, Sumant made that comment that earlier we were around 200 basis points. Now we are 50 to 75 basis points higher than the market, and we'll continue till we get into the Basel III norm of around 48% to 52%. But look at us, what we did was on the FD side, yes, we were a bit of a front runner earlier, but we knew that the interest curve is going up. So what we did was, we were out in the market and we garnered quite a lot of fixed deposit. And the retail fixed deposit guys are -- it's all 87% above 1 year, 87%. 83% is above -- I will say 87% is over 1 year, 83% is out of that over practically a 2-year period. So it's long-term money for us. And now you see how the other interest rates are going up. So let's say it's a win-win for us. What we did was on the savings account side, we used to give 6% earlier. We actually reduced it to 5.5%. But yes, as we stand today, we had to again take it up because everybody is now moving the rates up. So again, we got back to 6%. But during the time, we actually from 6%, dropped it down to 5.5%, and then got back to now 6%. I spoke about the assets. The retail assets, I think, is booming in the industry, okay? Two, three points to note is that the highest disbursals ever we have done is INR 2,500 crores is what we did last quarter. This quarter, we are trying to get to INR 2,700 crores, INR 2,800 crores. So it's booming. Money is there to lend. But what we have to always be? If you look at some of our peer banks, they're focusing on the unsecured business. Yes, the yields are higher. Yields are higher for me also. But as a bank, we have kept that balance. If you look at 51% of my growth has happened from secured business and 49% from the unsecured. So it is not about only cards and PL because that's where the market is. So we are recalibrating ourselves. We want to be very cautious and then do the growth. So the growth have actually happened on LAP, growth have happened on the [indiscernible] growth have happened on the gold loans. Yes, it has also happened on the cards and on the PL. So it's 51%, 49%. The quality, and I think Sumant made that point, that it's not about quantity, it's about quality, and we are very, very focused on that. The learnings of COVID has been already implemented. The gross flows are looking southwards. And if you look at the TransUnion data, and I always believe that 30-plus is the best barometer to look at because that's on the 90s, you can play the write-offs and all those stuff, but on 30s, you cannot. So our 30s are looking as per the market. So there's absolutely very, very eagle's eye on the quality of business which we do. Now let me start with the basic of any retail deposits or what we call it liability, it's the LCR, right? We have grown 1.8x the industry. Industry was -- I'm talking not even talking now, I'm talking about the last 2 years, they were growing at 11%, 11.5%. We were growing at 21%, 22%, okay? So that's what we have done. The LCR, okay, what we call it the Basel III thing, we have both on CASA and CASA TD, we have actually doubled it. That means when my deposits were growing at roughly around 20%, 21%, on the retail part, I was actually doubling it every 2 years. So that at least the LCR, if you see from -- 26% in '18, nothing to talk about, we have reached a healthy 41%. What we have discussed internally is that we should exit at anywhere between 42% to 43%. And over the next 3 years, and you will see that in the PC-6 plan, we want to be anywhere between 48% to 52-odd percent. The best-in-class is obviously at around somewhere anywhere between 57% to 60%, but I think I don't want to get too much into it. I'm sure in the product groups, it will get covered. It is also covered by Sumant. Our funding profile is very, very different than any of the peer banks. So if you add that 15%, 16% out there, so if you talk about 50% on that 15%, 16%, so we are also at a comparable 65-odd percent. So don't look at only the LCR to do your competition combination. It is the overall funding. It's -- we will get into a 48% to 50%, 52-odd percent in the next 3 years. You have seen that, okay, we have been able to scale up and with the funding profile, which you have another 15%, 16%, you can add, we are safely at the 65%-plus plus. The left-hand side, you will see that, obviously, no guesses for that. The first bank one is the biggest retail bank which we have. So that's at 23%. But look at us, we are just after that, 12%. Obviously, the size matters. But I'm clocking much better than the others, including the other big peer banks. That's the LCR growth. How LCR growth are in that? It's there in the RBI data, take it out, divide by the number of debit cards, you will get the answer. Because nobody announces that, okay, I have this many clients. The best way to do it is, again, that's RBI data. Take the debit cards, divide the LCR ratio, which is published by RBI, and you will get the data which is there. So we are right there on that. ATS. When you -- the thing that when you go for volumes, what happened is that your ATS goes for a toss. We have kept a very healthy 1.68 lakhs. Is it the best-in-class? I don't want to be best-in-class. The best-in-class means that you have bulk deposits. I'm there with the peers. They're all at a 1.57 lakhs, I'm at 1.68 lakhs, 1.49 lakhs. So I'm there. So yes, there are some big accounts, and we are trying to now reduce it. And you've seen Sumant spoke about it. As we go into the PC-6, you will see we will keep on moderating that. Our top 20 was once upon a time, 20% to 23%. As we stand today, it's around 16%, 17%. And if you take 1 of those biggies out there, we are at 10-odd-percent. So we are looking at the top contributors, and we are trying to slowly reduce the exposures out there. Look at the number of customers. Again, what we have done is that, best way to do it is divide it by the debit cards. And we have indexed it. But in 4 years, we have doubled the clients. But believe me, this is the place where we need to do more. If you look at our per branch clients, we are at somewhere around 3,600. Our peers, the top 4 are all at -- I will say, top 3 are all at 8,000, 8,500. So I'm lying behind out there, let's be honest. And obviously, there's somebody who took the plunge on the digital side. That particular bank is over 13%, 13.5% now. But the quality there, you will see that the ATS is much lower, but yes, they have volumes there. And with the INDIE getting launched, I think that gap between that 3,600 to 8,000 will get -- Sumant spoke about that, it will get neutralized. So it's a matter of time. But clients matter because to get your retail and get your -- the cross-sell product holdings, it matters. So yes, we have done well, but I think there is a scope of improvement out there, and we are absolutely focusing on to get the number of clients up. Why this -- what we call it, the differentiated strategy. And so I'll tried to explain that what are the core beliefs? How we want to drive this consumer business? One is that which I said, is the phygital model, we'll keep on opening branches. But when you expand, one thing is very important, especially I keep a hawk's eye on that is, what I call it, unit profitability or unit efficiency. Is every branch making money for you? And that's what comes. Unit profitability is what we look at. And as we expand and I have a slide on that as well, I'll show it, is that we keep a hawk's eye on the cost and the revenue. And we have a beautiful model where my branches actually get, I will say, 63% of my branches actually breakeven with the allocated cost increase, that means total cost in 9 to 12 months. There is only the balance around 37-odd percent, which actually takes the 15% to 18%, and these are mostly branches which opened in the metro because rentals are quite high. But we have a beautiful model there. Overall, as a new branch portfolio. That means that I opened 250 branches. As an overall portfolio, I know my branch efficiency is somewhere around 66%, and the overall efficiency is somewhere close to 96%. So I breakeven the branches on the portfolio every year. This segmented strategy. It's a belief which started off with the -- our consumer finance, then obviously, the macro finance, the diamond. That wherever we have a domain, you get disproportionately higher market share, and it has happened in the consumer side also. And I will talk about it, how we have done better than the market and how we have done better in the market, and I'm sure Samir during his affluent discussion, will talk about how we have done better on the affluent side, how we have done better on the home markets okay, and I will talk about that. But we have a very differentiated model to play on the domains. I think somebody was talking about the partnerships. Yes, we do have, okay. We do have partnerships to boost up the acquisition. But you will see more of this coming once we set up the digital bank out there, which should be from the next quarter itself, you will see that the partnership and all. But apart from that, you will see that our -- the values have gone up by at least 1.7x and the numbers have gone up by around 2x already. Obviously, we need to double that again in the next 2 to 3 years. Intelligence, I spoke about. I think it's not about the overall, the wealth of data. It is how we use that data, how we create that platform to do an upsell and a cross-sell. So I'll talk about that also. Customer responsiveness and the innovations, it goes hand-in-hand, okay? As a bank, you will see that, okay, in this commoditized consumer market, we have kept on innovating. That was one of the [indiscernible]. And some of you will be well aware that when you go to the market and check the clients, clients talk about that you have superior products. I have people joining from competition to us. When they come and start working, they say Soumitra, I think we have very good products in the bank. So innovations have been, I believe, which we have that it will help us to stay ahead of the pack, and that's what is happening out there. Last but not the least, that's a very, and Sumant spoke about employer of choice, and I think this is something in the management team, we drive it. I personally love that is that if you have happy employees, they're far more productive, they're far more engaged with you, their productivities are much higher and they give superior in customer service. And I think we have some very transparent way of how we monitor in the consumer bank, in the last few slides I will talk about it, how we monitor them on a month-to-month basis. How we reward them, we don't wait for the appraisal cycle, but we keep on rewarding and recognize the people who are doing well. And at the end of the day, the full appraisal process, how it's a very, very transparent, clean way where beginning of the year, any person in the bank, you can work into that, they will know that, okay, if I do 1, 2, 3, 4, I will get into my next level. So that's something which I believe when you run large teams, you need to have this kind of policies and process in place to take care of your employees. So that's there. First one, I think in this expanding market, if you don't get your right and one of the biggest investments you are doing, which is the branch infrastructure, you will go wrong. And I think the way we do it is that, obviously, this RBI data, the bureau data, which is there. Everybody does it. I also do it. We also look at those -- the business change which are coming up, the community which is coming up. We try to own those. Any business corridors, which is coming up, any of the smart cities which are coming up, we try to be there. Then we play the density. And this is what I will talk about when I talk about the home markets. How -- in a very, very Tier 2, Tier 3 cities, how we played this density game and got this professionally more market share in these markets, even when the peer banks are present out there. Plus, let me take a couple of minutes. Our -- when you open a branch or when you walk into any of the IndusInd Bank, I believe that India is a big city -- big country, you cannot have a big canvas and you can't paint it with 1 brush. It cannot happen. So we have a segmented strategy of the branches. We have NRI branches, we have affluent branches, sometimes you would have seen those full-page ad, which comes out when we launch those. We have business owner segment branches. These are client segments. But when I drive my distribution for profitability, I look at 1 more cut. Even in a vintage branch, there are places where branches are doing well. So I put them as performing branches and keep it aside. But that vintage branches don't give me any balance sheet or fees. So when I dive deep, these are clients where the branches have their clients, but they have not been able to engage with the clients. So even in a city, I split up into 4 parts. So these branches where it is vintage, they have clients, but they are unable to do it. I call them client engagement branches, and I put more RMs. I put more wealth RMs, I put more EC RMs, depending on the profile of that to get interact, enhance the client relationship. There's another set of vintage branches where there's no clients. They have been there for 3, 4 years for whatever reasons, but they don't have clients. So what we do is that we go back to the drawing board and put more acquisition on those. And hence, what happens there for the next -- and these people are -- these branches are monitored on a month-to-month basis, that we focus on acquisition in the next 12 months to 24 months, they come up the curve and other become a performing branch or the client engagement branches. And the last is, obviously, the new branches which we set up. We have at different -- not in all places, but in some places in high-density we have different RHs only manning the home markets, the new branches. Because what happens is that if I give too many vintage branches to somebody, they keep on focusing on those vintage branches to get the revenue. So I have dedicated regional heads to focus only on those and our new branches in that particular city to scale it up. As I said, 9 to 12 months is my breakeven. So that's how we have been able to do it. Very frankly, till date for the last 10 years -- I've given you for the last 8 to 9 years, we have been opening 250-odd branches, except that 1 year where I think 2020 and [ 2021 ], we opened 104-odd branches. We have been actually consistently even. We will end this year, okay, though you see only a 50, 60 as of now. But in the second half, you will see that we will open around the 200 more branches. So we will exit at 2,500-odd by this financial year. This is for some of you who want to just have a look at the distribution, okay? You will see that we are not a rural player. We have around 57% of our branches and we keep on opening in the metro and the urban branches. So 57% actually is there. And the rest, obviously, rural, obviously, is there because as per guidelines, we have to be at 20%, 22%. So that's why we are there. But 1.7x, 1.6x of our new branches are coming up in the urban and the metros. And that's why sometimes, as I said, our rentals play a spoil spot on my efficiency. But in the 15 to 18 months, I cover it up. I'll make these branches profitable. If you look at our geographical , we are not a South segment or a North oriented. Yes, there are some North, obviously, slightly heavy at 36% of my network, and you will see correspondently my balance sheet and my fees are also slightly higher on the North, but I'm well distributed on the West, South and East. It's not that we are 1 oriented geography where we operate in. We are well distributed out there. Now comes the -- why the segmented strategy and I'll try in the next 4, 5 minutes, try to explain that what is the concept behind it. I'll give you 2, 3 before the start point. One is that we always look at which business can give me LCR accretive and deposits. So if any business gives me sticky money, LCR accretive, I try to do those businesses, one. Second is, I think Sumant mentioned, that our deposit market share, and that's an open thing. You can check on your RBI data is we are at 1.7% market share. Not much, but yes. Kotak will be at 1.8%. Obviously, HDFC high at 9.6% or 9.7%, it can be off by 5, 10 basis points, but that's where it is. Obviously, Axis will be somewhere around 4-plus, and ICICI at 6% to 7-odd percent. So obviously, my next best is obviously, Kotak, can we need to fight that out. How we do it is that every initiative which we take, we put a tag of how much market share I can gain, and it has to be much more than that 1.7%. If I've to move that 1.7% to 1.8% to 2%, I need to do businesses, which gives me far bigger market share. So that is what I call it the bedrock when I take an initiative. I start with affluent, okay? Affluent, I was just reading, I think, Morgan Stanley or CLSA report, where they were talking about the household income, okay? The household income in 2019 was somewhere close to around [ 5.24 ]. And they are projecting that in 2030, okay, it will move to somewhere around [ 7.32 ]. So that's, what, around 1.4x. But in India, the affluence is actually climbing in a big way. If you look at the elite class, they are actually growing at 2.3x in the same 2019 versus 2013. The affluent is moving up by around 2.1x, and the base is 1.4x, which I said. Even the aspirers, people like us, we are moving up by around 1.6x. So affluent was a spot -- a sweet spot, which we had to. So they are -- Samir will take you through. There is a client continuum, which happens and also there are RMs to get the new entity. And our proposition is perhaps one of the best. We fight it out with a HVC premium gold. We are far above. It is not private banking. As Sumant said, private banking will launch in the PC-6. It is banking for the well to do. But Samir explain our strategy behind it. Next comes the NR, okay. The NR, if you see your data again, it is at [ INR 10 lakh 77-odd thousand ]. And the last, I think update, which RBI sent is August. We are closing November, but the last data available is I think it comes in a 2 month lag, it is INR 10,77,000. Now if I look at the August data, we were around [ 28, touching 29 ], okay? 1,000 as the NR book. So if you do your maths, we'll be around 2.6% to 2.65-odd percent, okay? The journey started in 2019, where we were at 1.58%. I spoke about 1.7% my deposit. I'm already at 2.6%, 2.65%. As we stand today, we are already at INR 30,700 crores. So in the last 3 months, also have increased. So my estimate is that when the October-November data comes in, I'll be anywhere above around 2.8%, 2.85%, okay? And the stated objectives that before we get out of this financial year, we should be around 3% to 3.1%. That's the guidance which we are giving that we should be a dominant player on the NR side. Some of the things which you should look when we talk about the NR business, I'll have a slide, so I'll talk more about that. Business owners. I think I will say this is BAU, but not BAU. This is a dominant thing. If you look at the developed markets and developed markets for us is basically the 4 metros: Delhi, Kolkata, Chennai, Mumbai. We have Hyderabad, Bangalore, and we have Pune. These are the 7 developed markets which we have. Now in these markets, the big 4 are already well entrenched, and you have host of all banks and are also operating. So can I go again with the same household, same salary accounts and try and knock, knock and get it? I don't think we can make a mark. Remember, our theory is that we have to gain market share out there. So what we did was we have an excellent proposition on the current account side. It's married with the transaction banking, it's married with the FX restructuring and structuring, which we do forward. So as a composite, we go and try and get the business owner or the self-employed guy onboarded. Once I onboard the self-employed guy, the business owner out there, I try it once. He's banking with me for 3, 4 or 5 months. Then I get into the personal accounts office. Then I start managing his wealth. The concept is help the business owner to do what he's best at, what he's actually doing his business. If I can build efficiency into his business by giving solutions out there, then obviously, tomorrow, people definitely bank with on the personal side also with us. By doing that, on the developed market, we have been able to crack open some part of it. So that's the strategy on the business owner side. You have the salaried and household. It is not that we have vacated. We have an open market team. But we do only around 50-odd thousand in a month. Maybe Kotak does around 75,000 to 80-odd thousand accounts in a month. So I'm a laggard out there. So what we have done is, again, on this part, that -- and Sanjeev will speak about it when he speaks about the corporate bank later during the day, is that we have given lending to these banks. We have a very good equation with the decision makers out there. So we actually tapped those, what we call it the OPDT, owners, promoters, directors and trustees, okay? We offer the pioneer, which is the affluent kind of offering out there and start banking with them. Once the bank, it's the influencer model. Your boss is banking, so why not you? So I tried to do an inverted funnel and try to start getting those salary accounts. Tested, video got success, but the top management, because my proposition pioneer is very high, I have been able to swing deals out there. So that's how I'm getting into the corporate salary. Government defense is another place. Because we are strong out there, we have a decades old relationship. Now we are looking at how to get those salary accounts of those government business. We have got cards specifically for the government cater out there. And we are trying to do a very selective way but we are there in the corporate, not in mass market and open, very selective out there. But through the corporate banking where we have relationship or the government or the defense, we're trying to capture the employee accounts from there. Rural. Again, J.S. will talk about it in the afternoon when it covers the BFIL. But I don't know if you have seen -- we -- because of my rural network, which is there, which is more 2,500, I'm being able to get to the last mile. When you do government business, when you want to go to the last mile and open those accounts, my Bharat Money Stores actually plays a big part of it. HDFC is tied up with the customer service units out there or customer service centers, what they call it. We have our own Bharat Money Stores. So which is better? Somebody else's infrastructure or your own infrastructure? So we play deep in the rural through our own, and I will -- I have again, a slide on that, that how I capture the full money frame, I will talk about that. So rural plays a big part in that life. NR, as I said, we are already at a 2.6% to 2.65-odd percent of market share. What is very important is that in the last 2 years, we have been able to capture 9% of the flows, 9%, okay? We are not a big bank. 9% of the flows. As I said, my book is around INR 30,700 crores. We are definitely the fourth largest in the country. And next, I'm talking about the top 4 peers. We are above Kotak. And Axis is not far off. So my own ambition is to, in the next 1 year, go above Axis, and then we will see how much to do for that. The outward remittance, the LRS, okay, and if you talk about '19, say, in the '20 -- 2020, it was somewhere around [ $12.6 billion ] which was the remittance out. And on '21, it actually moved up to [ $19.6 billion ]. And our share out of that is 20%. We are [ $3.8 billion ]. So you see that when I say domain plays up and it actually gives you disproportionately more share, look at it. I'm being able to capture 9% of the flows of India. I'm being able to do 20% of the LRS. I have been able to get 2.65-odd percent market share when my overall market share is only 1.7%. How do we do it? We have a digital account opening, 5 minutes, anybody sitting anywhere in the world can open accounts in 5 minutes. But yes, RBI still looks at the physical documentation. So we have tied up with DHL, okay? And in the next 7 days, the physical documents come in. But your account is active, you can start doing your remittances. Yes, it's on a debit freeze, you cannot get the funds out, but you can open the accounts. I have a 24/7 video branch, all time zones gone. At any point of time sitting in Australia, sitting in New Zealand, you can actually talk to me, I'm there available 24/7. I have a very superior remittance platform, okay? In Singapore, Thailand, it's already started. Test marketing is on. Like if you're shopping in Singapore, there's a QR code, you can actually scan it and the money gets transferred. We were 1 of the first banks to tie with NPCI, and we are doing it. It's on the test market. We'll launch it in the next coming few months. So these are some of the things which we have done to get the NR. NR is not easy, but it's -- once the money comes in, it's sticky money. Money doesn't go. NRIs come only once a year, sometimes they don't visit. There was a study which was done, I don't remember, by one of those, I think E&Y or somebody they have done it. That 40% of the remittance of the NRIs bring in, it goes into the maintenance of their family or they support their family. Like I may be sitting in London, and I want to support my parents, my brother out here. So 40% of the remittance which I bring in actually goes in for that supporting the family. 30% actually goes into bank deposits because, obviously, the India still offers the much, much better interest rates than the think. And 30% is their own other investments or they want to buy properties, whatever. So that size. So as a bank, we are more interested on that 70%. I told you that the rates are better. My proposition is better, so I get that 30%. I get a chunk out there. On the 40%, which is the family maintenance, my NR, and I have close to 300 RMs who actually scout around and open those accounts. There are 2 ways of doing it. One, obviously, there are digital marketing in countries like the UAE, the U.S., the Canada, the Australia out there. But also my guys, we have practically home states like Kerala, Punjab, you have Gujarat, where these RMs physically visit because most of the households out there have NRIs there. They start from there, open the NRI accounts and also the domestic, the kids account. So all NRI guys are -- when they open an NR account, they are tasked to open at least 2 or 3 domestic accounts, especially the mandate holder. What happens is that when the money comes in, the money actually stays within the family. That 40%, which I told you, the study was talking about 40%. I try to capture that. So the 40% and 30% is what I concentrate and that's why our market share is going up. So that's the plan for the NR business. And it contributes 23% to the LCR. So that's a big one. I think affluent contributes around 32% on the LCR side. So these are very strong, granular, sticky. Money stays with you. I spoke about the business owners. Let me take a couple of minutes on -- I know what the branches are tasked on. The branches are tasked that, okay, 2 kilometers on the left-hand side, guidance side, get all the current accounts in. Starting with that small kirana shop, the grocery shops, the tailors, the saloon, which he operates. So through the QR code and the POS machines. POS is what we launched 24 months back. We are clocking around 6,500, 7,000 machines per month. We want to exit this financial year by at least 10,000 odd machines. So what is happening is through this route of POS, we are being able to get the current account of that in a small shop, which is there. We also grow into the enterprise merchant. What are those enterprise merchants? So maybe [indiscernible], or in Noble medicine in Mumbai, or the Portrees in Chennai. So what we try to do is we convert one of them and then talk to their management and try to -- by giving them funded limits, nonfunded limits, and getting the full -- the ecosystem out there, starting with the POS, giving funding, getting the current account and giving them transaction banking benefits to capture the flows out there. So that's another way of cracking the current account in a market, which we do. The last but not the least is the exit. Very, very attractive, okay? Because -- and what we do is that we have port data available, where every ECRM, emerging corporate RM, is given a 100, 200 list where through the port data, you know that how much transactions the exit -- the exporter's or importer's doing. And the RMs are tasked to get -- convert the new to TFX, what we call it, or get the flows in. And that's what the supervisors keep on tasking on. So as we speak, you will see the flows have indexed. We have moved up. Our last year market share was 1.54%, okay? Though it fell down in '21 because of COVID, but from a 1.42%, it moved to 1.44%. We exited last year at 1.54% market share on the FX volumes, [ in India ] volumes. This year, FY '23, when we exit, I think we should be anywhere between 1.7% to 1.75%, and it gives me very, very strong TFX fees. Somebody was asking, about the fee breakups. The wealth on the consu bank, wealth gives me around 20% to 22%. FX gives me around 25-odd percent and then the assets and all the other products. But FX is a big contributor to my [ fee kit ]. So that's what we do. The home markets. Now it is cities. It is also states. Now the home market is where -- when we started, this is an initiative which we started some 6 years back, okay? Where -- to dominate and to increase market share, we thought that, okay, the way to go ahead is get to places where it's still not that competitive. The deposit growth is there, and you can capture more than disproportionate share of the client's wallet. And so what we did is we started with around 12-odd home markets. As we stand today, we have 17 home markets. And our market share in these places are close to -- actually, it's between 3.94% and 4.1%. That's the market share. It goes up and down a bit, but that's the market share which we have. And compare that with our overall market share of 1.7%. Now what are these markets? Markets are, if you look at the north market, it's places like Kanpur, places like Lucknow, places like Chandigarh. Chandigarh, for that matter, we have a 9% market share down there, 9% market share. We are a dominant player out there. We are -- places like Gurgaon, Noida. We don't -- as a bank, we don't -- NCR has one. We have at Noida, we have at Gurgaon separate plants, and Delhi is part of my developed markets. And again, in Gurgaon, I don't know if some of you may have visited. I'm a dominant player in the Gurgaon market. [ Through the home design, ] you have places like Surat. You have Ahmedabad. You have Indore. You have Nagpur. So those are the places where we have home markets. In the South, we have Coimbatore. You have Vizag. In the East, you have Raipur. You have Patna. You have [ Bawadi ]. So these are places where we have seen that competition is still not there. When I say competition, it is the peers, the top 4, top 5 banks. They're still not there or that entrenched. So that's why we didn't go into Goa. We didn't go into Pune because Axis was already there. We chose to ignore those. So these are in places where we have put up density of branches, and 19% of my network actually is housed in this home markets, but I get 38% of my balance sheet from these. So we control, plus/minus 1, 4% of the market share in these markets. Also [ Rama ], which I don't always flag it. When you open a branch in a metro city and when you open a branch out here, my OpEx goes down by at least 25 to 30-odd basis points. So it's a far more effective way of doing business in the home markets. I spoke about the home states and how -- where we are strong, how we are playing a different route out there to get the LCR money in. I think some of you would have read in the papers also came out. Uttarakhand is one such example. So what we have done, we always used to have the central mandate out there. So from a central mandate to Uttarakhand capital, which is Dehradun, we took that. The Panchayat, okay, the 13 districts. All the 13 districts banks with us. The Panchayats and the Nyaya Panchayats, there's some 8,000, and [ all ] Panchayats, all of them banks with us. All of them, okay? Plus we have opened 600 Nyaya Panchayats' account. These are -- Nyaya Panchayats [ are nothing ], but a group of 7, 8, 10 Panchayats coming, and there is a Nyaya Panchayat out there. So that's how the Nyaya Panchayat concept also came up. And then to get to the last mile, the farmers, we have already opened around 1,500-odd farmers. And we will keep on expanding on that. That is where the BFIL comes into play. That's where the Bharat Money Stores come into play, where perhaps [indiscernible] looking at the customer service centers, we have our own outlet out there to do it. So last mile. We have already captured INR 1,200 crores to INR 1,500-odd crores out there. But you may think it's chunky. But look at -- I've already opened some 10,000 more accounts out there. So what is it? It's 11 -- 10, 11, 12 lakhs, nothing more. So playing on the domains, yes, we are strong on the government business, but how we're actually getting into the last mile, the last guy who's using the money and getting his account. So that's how I capture the full trade. This is a new thing which we are starting off. And I know there is this study, which happened in the U.S., okay? It's by FDIC, if you look up, you will see. It's about community banking, okay? And I think they did a study in 2019 or '20, I don't remember. There are some 4,750 community banks in the U.S., and they have 29,000 branches, okay? So that was one aspiration and inspiration for us. Second, I think someone spoke about the South-based banks. So where the community, the baisa community and all, you get those flocks together. The cooperative banks out here. They play. They have [ vision ] out there and they're getting their value for money from there. So we played that where we thought that, okay, let's start owning some of the communities. And what we are trying to do? One bank approach. You have a corporate bank, and I've put those 3 [indiscernible] there, and Sanjeev will also spoke about that out there when he speaks. Logistics, education, health care, these are also what corporate bank is looking, to lend. If both of us together can go and capture the ecosystem, community bank is nothing but capturing the full ecosystem. And what happens? The study in the U.S. says that the ROAs are much better and faster in these community banks. The quality of our business is much better in these community banks. You know why? Because it's already known. I don't want to default when I know AMRO is there because if I default, AMRO might be laughing at me. So the peer pressure actually keeps the quality going, and that's what the U.S. banks have taught us. And from there, we have started, and you will see that we have already started off the diamond bank within the organization because that's one of our domains. We are strong out there. The decision makers are already banking with us through lending. So now what we are doing is that we are trying to capture the full ecosystem. There are 2 epicenters out there. One obviously is Mumbai; the other one is Surat. So we have actually our branch in the Diamond Bourse out there, okay, and they cater to around more than 1,000, 1,500 odd offices in those Bourse. Then what we go into is that the decision makers, the owners, promoters, writers. We get into their wealth, their trust accounts, their family accounts and their ancillary businesses which are there. So we never knew that there is actually ceramics, they actually invest in the real estate. So we are now capturing those through the Diamond and our merchants out there. Then we are looking at how to capture the staff out there. Let's take Surat. Surat is where the diamond finishing happens, the polishing happens. But these workers are not from Surat. They come from 100, 200 kilometers away from Surat. So what we are trying to do is get into their family and get into their communities. And we are actually supporting -- we have already opened some 18-odd branches. These are all small, 400, 500 square feet branches manned by 2, 3 people, so that the family can bank. The money which goes, they still are not that digital and all. They love that physical presence, small boutique thing. So they have a branch out there. We get into that, like during the Diwali, these garbas and all that, we sponsor those. So the family sees IndusInd all over. [ DMU ], already banking with us, lending relationship with us. The staff, banking with us. Money sent to the villages for the usage of the family, they see IndusInd, and they bank with us. But capturing all of that, we feel like it's just -- we started in this quarter itself. We feel INR 2,500 crores to INR 3,000 crores, we can absolutely build up in the next 2 years. So that's how we are building communities, and Sumant spoke, we will have another 3, 4 of them. [indiscernible], we'll announce another 3, 4 there, which will help us to get that. These are all recruiters. So -- when you -- I'll pause a bit out there. When you talk about HDFC, when you talk about ICICI, when you talk about Kotak, YES, everybody has their own strengths. We play on our strengths. We play on our domains. We play on this segmented approach. And tell me, most of you also visit the other workshops. Do they have this kind of a segmentation to do it? So when people ask that -- right, [indiscernible], you've done well, but do you think in this coming 2, 3 years, you will be able to keep the momentum up? Absolutely, yes. Very confident. And I was telling [ Bill the thing ]. Only thing is that if there is any macroeconomic changes which happens, I can't help it. But to get to a 6 lakh, INR 20-odd crores, I don't see that to be an issue. Very frankly, if you ask me. As the leader of the pack out here, I don't think it's an issue at all. And as I said, and I'm not talking about the BU business. BU business continues as is. I've not even spoken what I think [ ACC ] speaks about, that the vintage of branches will bring more deposits because they have been opening branches for the last 6, 7, 8 years. 38% of my branches are below 5 years. When my branch from a 5 years move to 10 years, I get a 5.5 and odd times delta. When that branch actually moves to 10 years, I get 11x delta. So those are there. I'm not even talking about it. When all these new branches come in, you have more people. Like productivity normally increases by 10% to 12%, same -- the same guy doing more, 10% to 12% every year. That will -- those I'm not talking about, those are BU for me. It will happen. And I have this segmented strategy to talk about. So I can only say that in front of you is that IndusInd, and also Sumant spoke about the funding profile. I'm not even touching on that. So there is no issue of that, but also on utilization and on the liabilities. I think -- I'm not trying to become [indiscernible]. I have to do that 22%, 23% growth. I'll be able to do it. I don't have any issue. One big thing on the liability side is acquisition, okay? Because, yes, COVID times, we saw that the -- what we call the ETB, the existing book, also grew by or deepened by around 6% to 7% or 8%. But in normal, believe me, look at any data. Take out the corporate salary because corporate salary gives you year-on-year growth. If you take out the corporate salary, most of the -- including HDFC, ICICI and all, it's flattish. If they do a 2% growth, they feel damn good. To retain clients, [indiscernible] trading is a big one. It's the acquisition which actually fills the growth. And you look at how we have actually -- we have grown the values by about 2x. We have grown the LTVs by 1.75x. We will also keep on growing. And somebody was asking about the alliances. Alliances will play a part. As we stand today, we are already tied up with Paytm. We are tied up with Airtel money. We are tied up with Groww. We are tying up with Motilal Oswal for the 3-in-1 accounts. We are. But once the digital kicks off, you will see how this whole thing combines, and Sumant is talking about that 5 million accounts. So that's something which will happen. But we have absolutely a robust acquisition plan in place to fill the liability growth. I'm sure this slide, all of you have seen multiple times. What I'll do is that I will just give you a couple of examples to tell you that how we use this data to our benefit. How do we do the execution? We have this, and I'll say, Forex Card, right? And I also use it, but I'm also giving you the example, is that you load, say, by GBP 2,000 when you're going to U.K. and you are shopping, and shopping, shopping, Harrods, Selfridges, whatever you do, suddenly, it comes down to -- you've already utilized GBP 1,500, GBP 1,600. There's an automated SMS which will go, saying that you've utilized 70%, 75% of your thing. You can immediately refill at a better FX. No markup, better FX and within a couple of minutes. So you just do -- not touch, the money comes in. So that's what it is. We are talking about NRIs. When NRIs come and visit, the moment they do it, a UPI transaction goes through the ATM. The RM is getting alerted saying that, okay, your client has come. Please meet, greet and try to take the relationship forward. When there is an RM and his client is actually doing vendor payments, we have certain thresholds. If it is of a certain value, obviously, we'll get intimated. But if you're doing multiple times, the RM is getting intimated that why would you go and tap that vendor because the money -- then the money trail will skip with you only. So those are the real time things that we are doing, and that's how we have been able to build our product holding on the -- obviously affluent side is 5.2% odd. But on the mass banking also, it is somewhere close to around 4%, 4.1 odd percent. It's not bad, and it's growing every month. This slide talks about that. We -- through the virtual RM and through our -- what we call the high value or the best RMs, the Pioneer, the business owners, the NR, where we have a very strong 750-odd RMs, they actually handle the top HNIs. But the rest, we have -- in the middle market, we have a [ Select RM ] and they manage the relationship. And in the below of the pyramid, we have the virtual channels to come in. We have virtual RMs and we have virtual service managers to handle that. 76% of our book is covered by relationship management so that we know that, okay, for the client, there's somebody to talk to. Of any need, there is somebody who can help out the client. If you look at our -- I've given you the breakup of our SAR and CAR retail books. It is not bulk. 52% of my book is on the SAR side, above the 20,000 [indiscernible]. That's why my ATS, if you look at it, I'm at a 1.68. That's because my sourcing is on the right direction. Even on the current account. By opening individual and also entrepreneurship doesn't give you funds. What you need is the partnerships and the companies. So 57% of my current account sourcing is with partnerships and the companies so that my ATS goes up. Now coming a bit on the asset side, okay? Assets, as I said, a couple of points out there. One, to keep the [ COS ] going, I think we have a big, big play out there, especially for IndusInd, is that we never utilize our brand channels to sell assets. We never did that, okay? Right, wrong, but that's something which is there and we can play up. We do roughly around 85,000 cards on a monthly basis. Branch does around 10,000 to 12,000. There is enough scope to get to 20,000, 25,000 orders. So my ambition is to get to a 1 lakh card and then stabilize and look at the qualities out there. I can get that from the branches only. On the PL side, I have scaled up post COVID to a 3 lakh -- 350, 360 odd per month, okay? Brands used to be practically 0. So I used to do around 200-odd. I have now taken the brands from 0 to 82. Last month was INR 82 crores. Is that good? No. But I'm saying that, okay, when I'm growing the asset side, it is not only about going to the DSA, which is high cost. I'll use my own network to source those accounts. I will do some partnerships. I will use our intelligence to like LAP, and some time back, there was huge attrition, which was happening, okay? So what we did was we got to trigger with the trans unit, so that if anybody was checking the radar, I was getting integrated, and we were trying to tap the client even before he thinks of doing a balance transfer or a top up with somebody else. So we use intelligence very, very sharply to grow my asset book. And obviously, the digital, what we have done for the credit cards and the PL has really, really made our life. Like Sumant said, I can actually issue a card in 5 minutes. I can do a PL and a [indiscernible]. That's what the branches are utilizing to do it. So no more mid offices, no more people involved. It's all digital. And that's why we scale up from 35,000 cards to 85,000, that 200-odd PL to 350. It's all happening through the Jocata and the digital. Yes. Sure. So not much to talk about. We are present in all the segments. Most of the products on the retail side, we are covered. The growth is very, very healthy. If you see -- I've given the BBG LAP an upgrade, cards, PL, agri. And you see that, okay, as I said in my opening slide, that I'm not only focusing on the unsecured to do my growth. That's risky, okay? So I am calibrating it between secured and unsecured. Secured is 51%. Unsecured is 49%. So that's what it is. I have -- and across the 2 million mark and credit cards, we took some 11, 12 years to do it. But the next 1 million, I have told Sumant, it will be done in 1 year. So that's what the escalation is. Credit card is something very close to my heart. And for every segment, we are actually there. And I know that Sumant is saying that, okay, not much of time, but we have some very, very innovative products like the middle one, the Nexxt card, the Duo card, okay? The Nexxt, I have it. During the lunch break, I can show you. We were all talking about buy now, pay later, right? All of us, and we said that was the big thing which is coming up. It's withering off, but still it's a big thing. I have a product in my credit cards where I have 3 buttons, okay? One button will give you that it can use it as a normal card. The second button, you can flush off all the reward points which you have. All of us use cards, so many of us are bankers and financials, but we don't know how to use our reward points. So you just press the reward points, give it to the merchant, the reward points will now get utilized out there. The third is very important. You can actually, without even telling the neighbor who's standing behind you, to buy that same 75-inch because you want to see the World Cup, and you don't want to tell him that, okay, you want to take EMI. You don't want to go to the Bajaj Finance guy who's standing. You just press the -- but you can make the EMI into 6 months, 12 months, 18 months, 24 months. You just press it and give it to the merchant. Automatically, it becomes a 6 months, 12 months, 18 months, 24 months thing. So I have very, very innovative products to stay ahead. Duo card. In one card, you have a debit and a credit. You don't need to carry 2 cards. You have a debit and a credit in 1 card. The spends are looking very healthy. We are one of the -- apart from, I think, Amex or we have just tied up with Amex on the spends side. You'll see the CIF going up. As I said, we just crossed the 2 million. We are doing around 85,000 cards per month. The spends market share is also crawling up. This is another -- and it is not -- I will not just talk about BBG as a single stand-alone product, but it is very, very interlinked with the business owner segment and with my current account. So this is driven through the branches, okay? And you will see that, okay, it is mirroring as per the market scenarios. COVID. Yes, we slowed down the market. Slowed down, establishments are closed. But the time it started to climb up, I'm already at a 2.5% quarter-on-quarter growth. We will go through a 2% to 4% in this. But it is helping me, not only to those INR 2 crores below templated lending from the branches, but also to capture my liabilities and also my -- build a stable loan book out there. I covered this. This is the innovation slide, okay? I think consumer is a very commoditized market. And you will see that at every step and the ones which has that -- the flag says 1, 1,1 are -- we were the first one to actually launch in the market. And there are some out there where, even today, the competition doesn't happen, which is to have the Choice Money in the ATM. Even today, none of the competitor banks have it. So we have actually always disrupted the market and we have kept ahead by doing innovations. We don't go and flash it, but awards follow us. You see in MeITY, we are the #1 private bank. We got the best savings award the year before. I spoke about the Indus EasyCredit, which is the PL and the cards, so we have got an award. On the merchant deposit machine I talked about, we have got an award. So awards follow. We believe that you innovate, you come out with a good product, awards will follow you. This is the last section on people and how we run the business. And I think retail is all about being detailed, being disciplined. So we have a Bible, which actually tells me and all the staff how to behave, what to wear, how to do a [indiscernible], how to do an e-mail. So everything is in a book. So that's what I call the Bible of to-dos, which are there. We keep on -- the leaders keep on speaking to these people. We do those the awards. If somebody has done good service, we actually recognize that person so that we inculcate the habit of having good service across. We have sharing committees where we pick up, and that's for the complaints. We try to figure out that what are the root cause of those complaints? And then we are sharing committee, and these are the top 10, which I have actually put, and there is a measurable, that after intervening on the processes, it's all about building client convenience. It's all about making the client into -- from an experience to a delight. So we have -- and that's the -- the metrics we follow. This is also shared in the customer service board meeting, which happens. We very recently have started the NPS. Prior to that, we had a CSAT thing, which was the litmus test, which is to do. For every transaction, the client is to get SMS to say that, okay, what was the satisfaction levels? Now we have gone into NPS. And I think you will see in the next slide, okay, this side, this is very important, the last one. And this is -- I'll give you from where we have gotten. All annual reports of all banks have the number of complaints. So that's the number of complaints we have picked up from all the annual reports of the -- of different banks. And then we have divided that total complaints by the debit cards because that's the number of clients which you have. And if you do that, look at IBL at 4.4. So what good work which we are trying to do on the service and getting into the process and trying to correct those processes is actually helping us to do that. This is what the customers talk about. I'm not playing it, but it's there in the YouTube. At any point of time, you can go and see it. The big part, which I spoke about. So when you run big, big organizations, you need to create transparency. Why people leave? It is not about money. It is about that what's in it for him or her. How I can give a career progression to this guy. So we have our KPIs, very, very transparent KPIs beginning of the year. And every month, starting with the service to the RM, to the sales guy, to the branch manager, to the regional head, to the zone lead, have qualitatives and the quantitatives there. And I've given you these 2 branch managers and the regional heads, but everybody has a different. Proportions differ. The sales guy will have high quantitatives, low on qualitatives. But everybody has quantity and qualities. If those person meet the annual kind of thing, teller, branch manager, there's something called Continuum. So without even questions asked, you get into the next level. One of the 2 things which we check is compliance and any frauds if this guy has done. If no, if you met the numbers, you get into [indiscernible]. And what is happening is that it is helping me to keep the attrition under check. This is what I was explaining. So we have absolutely from the teller level to the senior branch manager to the regional head have a Continuum, which plays out. And you see that, okay, our attrition rates are actually being able to tame down by 20% to 30%. This is the rewards and recognitions we do. We follow a principle that every month, we do a digital event, and you will see people like Kapil Dev, Harsha Bhogle, they come and do a talk with the people and one face-to-face meeting every quarter. That's all. So in a large sales organization, it's to keep the team kept up also. Just a guidance is that the client acquisition, Sumant spoke about it, we'll double it in FY '24. Okay? On the domains, NRI, I said we will actually exit at 3% plus. And in the next financial year, I will say that in the PC-6, we'll definitely try to get to a 5% plus market share. Home markets, we are already 4%, roughly plus/minus. We will try to get to 5% by next year, also add from that 17 branches to 25 branches. And in the PC-6, I'll take it up to 40 branches. So we'll play on the domains out there. On the utilization of deposits, by next year, we have to exit at 45. The shared objective in the PC-6 is that we will get to a 48% to 52-odd percent. And with the funding profile we have, if you add that the 15% to 16%, you are sitting at 65%, 66%, which is the best-in-class across. Even HDFC bank is at 62%. Assets will always be ahead of the market. We will, as I said, the non-BBG part will be around 30,000. In the next 3 years, we'll get to that 60,000. That 12,000, 13,000, we will exit on BBG, we will try to be at 18% to 19% out there. So that's the guidance for the going forward. So that's all for me. If you have any questions?

[indiscernible] from [ ASG Quantum Research ]. My 2 questions I do have. First is about the average ticket size in the credit card -- sorry, NR segment, where we do have 150 clients. And if possible, I would like to know the geographical diversification in the NR account. And second is, sir, our bank is moving toward the QR scan business where we already have a lot of competitors like GPay and Paytm and other people. So I just want to understand what kind of growth we are expecting in that. And what is the average ticket size, if you are talking about the QR scan business?

Okay. Just to answer you on the NR side, it is roughly around 3.5x of the domestic. Domestic, I told you that we hold around 1.5, 1.6. So on the SaaS side, it is 3.5x that. And on the deposit side, we are around 12x of the domestic. Now please understand it will always be had, and the guy's bringing money. He's thinking pounds, he's thinking dollars and actually putting money in INR. So obviously, we get that delta of 3.5 for transaction account, this is savings account, and not 12x on the fixed deposit. On the geographical spread, which you talked about on the NR. We are very strong. Yes, Kerala is a big home state for us, but we are very strong on the Punjab side. We are very strong on the Gujarat side, and the new 2 markets which are coming up is Maharashtra and actually Delhi. We are not that very strong on the Hyderabad side. On the IT, we are still not that -- we're trying to build. That's something which we are trying to build on that. On the GPay, and I couldn't get the question here, but I think it will get covered when we do the digital presentation and on the afternoon.

A question on -- deposit rates have moved by 190 basis points since May 4 policy meeting. And how much we have increased our updated since then? That is first question. And second is in the -- since we are coming into the busy season and the deposits, what is your view on the deposit market? How much we can expect deposit rates to move to reflect the complete transition from the policy rates?

Okay. Deposit rate has gone up around 1.9-odd percent, all of you know, okay, in different phases. So we were once around 5.75%. We were always that, what Sumant said, that we were 50 to 70 basis points. So we touched to 6%. As we stand today, we were at 7%, okay? So we passed on -- obviously, not fully at passed on. But as I said, if you see the ad for Axis, they're already at 7%, okay? That change happened last week. And HDFC, if I'm right, is already offering 7.3-odd percent now. So I'm forced to. As we speak yesterday, we had a mini ALCO, we are deciding to now move our rates to 7.25%. So we passed on, but we didn't pass on the full 1.9%, but we did pass on because that's what is required. On the deposit growths, you know that 9.5% is the deposit growth rates. We are clogging much higher. Last year was around 21%. We are trying to get to at least 18% to 20% internally. I'm talking about internally. The stated objective which Sumant and us says, on the retail side, we have to be practically 2x what the market is. So market drops to 8%, I'll try to be at 16%, 17%. Market goes up to 10%, I will try to be at 20%. Because I'm coming from a small base, you would understand. And with the segmented strategy, I'm playing deep on these pockets, I should be able to get more market share. Hence, I'm saying that, okay, we should be 1 point, and I have already done that 1.8, 2x of what the market is.

A couple of questions. First is on self-funding ratio for retail assets. If you could give some perspective of how much liabilities you are able to mobilize from your retail assets customer. And the second question is relating to attachment rate of term deposit within your customer base, if you could give some perspective. And 1 clarification on community banking. I thought the bank already used to mine the promoter and promoter family accounts of Diamond customer base. So what incremental changes have you made? If you could talk a little bit around that, that would be useful.

I'll start with the last one. The Diamond Bank, I think we spoke maybe a quarter back, that the Diamond, Sumant said that we are starting this thing of community banking. And I told you why this community banking, the U.S., we have seen some success in the South India, we have seen some success. So what we are now trying to do is that we used to only talk about the promoter accounts. Now we are not only talking the promoters, but the salary and their -- the families in the small villages. So we have 1, 2 steps below that. And it is, as of today, only Diamond, but we will also do the other piece also. What was the first one you said about? Self-funding. Okay. I told you -- okay, yes, I remember, I remember. It's like on the asset side, especially the retail assets, we didn't play the branch route, okay? I gave you the number that out of the 85,000 cards which we do, brands-only sources, 10,000 to 12,000, okay? And out of that, the guys who actually are opening accounts with me is as low as 10% to 12%. I want to take it up to 50%. Actually, I've told my guys that it has to be full 100%, but I'm feeling that, okay, it should be at least 40% to 50%. Same goes for LAP and PL. As we talk today, the percentage are very small. But that's the opportunity which we have. We look at HDFC. What is the story of HDFC? It's the cross-sell between clients. So I have that potent base and now I'll be doing it.

And on term deposit attachment -- attachment of term deposit with existing customer base?

I've come out with a good thought out there and have implemented. Yet to see too much of success, but we will. There's no doubt. See, when I'm doing that 85,000 credit cards, I'm actually sourcing 2 lakh 70 to 2 lakh 80 apps, okay, to get to that 85,000-odd cards which I'm rolling out. Now in this, the rejects which we see is that -- is because of CIBIL, because of stability of employment or SE. So what we are trying to do is, and we learn from all these policy bazaars of this world where they talk that, okay, how they can correct or cure their CIBIL scores. So we have come out with this innovative thing that we have a secured credit card, right, where we are telling the guys that, okay, why didn't you opened a FD with us of 15,000, 20,000, 10,000, whatever. I'll give a 90% limit. If your payments are good, you can upgrade yourself to a normal credit card either with me or somebody else. But what I'm trying to do is, one, attach FD out there. Second is it's new to bank to be both on the liability side and also on the card side.

This is [ Andre ] from ICICI. Just 2 quick questions. So one is this LCR retail deposit that you're saying that you're focusing on. Is there a ticket size gap you're placing on top of it being an LCR retail? Because if I'm not wrong, that cap is INR 7.5 crores, which is quite high.

INR 7.5 crores. Absolutely. It's RBI guidelines, so it's INR 7.5 crores. We are also internally focusing on something called [ Osmos ], which is below INR 2. So which RBI still don't track it. There's no published data. LCR is a published data. So obviously, that, we need to correct. We are absolutely low now. We have 41%. Stated objective, 48% to 52 odd percent. But it's INR 7.5 crores, yes, you're right.

Yes. right. And the second is when we look at the industry data on credit cards on an average card or whatever basis, IndusInd comes up at above price [ the system ], right? Average spend per card or average transaction amount per card, it's at 8,000, industry at 4,000. So is that it?

We are much higher. If you see our data, we are anywhere clocking during festivities, it went up to 28,000. And on a normal, if you don't [indiscernible], around 24,000. We are far higher. We actually compete only with Amex out there.

Is there any reason for that? Is it per spend?

No. It is not. It's the client base which we have. It is more on the upper strata. We don't have -- I give you those -- you will see most of our cards are based on the upper strata of the economy. So it is -- and the other answer is actually, if you look at other peer banks, they have a large salary base. And because the salary base, they have given those cards. I don't have that. I don't have that mass salary base. Hence, my cards in the lower strata is slightly lower than what is there on the other side.

This is [ Kunal from Ganelin ]. I have just 1 question on this NR strategy of ours. So just wanted to understand, is there any concentration, I mean, when it comes to specific, say, I mean, few banks have got concentration at a particular region, community. So anything of that sort when it comes to IndusInd Bank?

Good. I think good question. I'll give you -- and this is the last one because I think we are running late. I'll give you 2 data points so that you get the answer. I showed you last 4 years data where, from a market share of 1.58%, I have moved up to 2.6%, 2.65%. In the -- 4 years back, my base was 83,000 NR clients. Today, as we stand today, I'm at 1 lakh 40. So it is around 1.7x have increased. If you look at my market share also, I have actually increased by around 60%, 65%. So it is -- absolutely. So it is all retail. It is not bulky, okay? Bulky can be maybe [ 5, 6, ] and that is also in the below, so maybe INR 10 crores, INR 15 crores. It will maybe somebody really high-value client putting INR 2 crores or INR 5 crores. But these are all LCR money, which is INR 7.5 crores, 97% of the NR and affluent is LCR kind of thing. So there's no chunky. On the geographical thing, we don't have those kind of segmentation that, okay, suddenly, I'm totally Kerala-based or whatever. I gave you the balance sheet spreads also. Our home markets in NR is Punjab, Gujarat, Kerala and the newer markets is in Maharashtra and Delhi.

Okay. And just 1 related question is you said that 25% of the fees comes from ForEx. So these are pure transactional fees? Or what kind of fees...

These are FX flows, both on the export, import and all the NR inflows, remittances, which comes in. That's it. So that is consumer. I'm not [indiscernible] bank. So consumer is all about trade flows, which my clients give. I have -- as we stand today, I'm at a 1.54% market share. I want to -- I think I should exit at around 1.7%, 1.75% end of this FY '23, and these are all transaction flows with the importer, exporter is doing inward, outward and the remittance flows, which comes in for affluent and NR.

So there's no contingent liability-related fees, which would basically [indiscernible] of any sort. I mean any liability product for these transactions, contingent liability kind of products, pure transaction-oriented fees?

No, it's purely transaction fees. No contingent line ups. That's it. Thank you very much. I'm available during lunch time. So -- or at any point of time, you can always come. Thank you so much. Thank you.

My name is Samir Dewan. I oversee affluent and international business. Thanks, everyone, for taking this time out today, and it's good to see a full house. There are some movements at the back, but I think that's fine. So today, I'm going to start things off with an overview of my business and discuss some areas of growth, and we'll wrap it up with the Q&A. I have been allocated about 30 minutes of time, so I'll try to be on time. I'll spend about 25 minutes on the presentation. And then we'll wrap it up. 5 minutes, keep it for Q&A, and then we move on. But before I start my presentation, I would like to just make an overriding observation, which is despite the scale and size of this business that we are talking about, and I hope you will see that in the numbers that I will show in the presentation, this business is now -- actually, the growth is accelerating faster now than ever before. In the last 3 years, I think Sumant showed in his slides, even in [indiscernible], the business has almost doubled in almost every financial metric. And I'm quite confident that the growth will continue or in fact even take a higher pace as we grow more stronger and dominant in this space of business that we do. So with that background, I will move on the slides, so I'll try to cover it up as quickly as possible. Okay. So this chart that you see, it moves from right to left, left being the premier layer of clients. And as we go along on the left-hand side, that's the bottom of the pyramid. For us, our business strategy is essentially based on -- it's a very client-led business model. So all clients with 50 lakhs and above are considered affluent customers. For me, my sweet spot is the clients who have investable surplus of, say, 1 lakh to 100 crores. This is, for a very good reason, this is a very attractive segment. These clients -- the segment is growing fastest. There is some Knight Frank out there, which says about 6.1 lakh. If you see this one, I mean, at this point in time, you're talking about just 2 -- so doing 3x. And the good part about this segment also is that not only that the segment is growing, but even the wealth of these HNIs are growing at even faster pace. So I get double benefit. One is my universe increases. And at the same time, even those guys who are in this universe, their business increases. So I get double benefit. I grow with these guys. It's also a very cost-efficient segment. I continue to get fees from them. They're not as sensitive about the fees. The moment we move to a little bit more towards left, we know that the margin starts to squeeze. The spread starts to go down. So this is absolutely fitting in the right spot. Also, these customers still don't even -- they still depend on financial intermediaries like banks to do their transaction and meet their banking requirements. Again, if you move towards the super HNIs or ultra-high-net-worth individuals, we are seeing some already emergence of family offices. So it makes it more difficult to go and reach out to them. This segment also fits very well with our stated strategy. I think Soumitra and Sumant both mentioned it. We are playing deep in the Tier 2 markets, so this fits in very well, or the home market that we talked about. So these are the clients which are sitting out there. What I would also like to show you actually is that not only that we have, if you look at all the financial metrics here, in most of the metrics, we've either doubled or have grown more than that, right? In the last 3 years, the business has been really -- of course, we had a little bit of a tailwind. The market has been extremely favorable to my business. We have -- we had -- the environment was very favorable. We had the market, which was in a bullish trend, liquidity was very high and even interest rates were almost all-time low. So we've had a big advantage of this one. But the good news is that even though there was almost a U-turn starting this financial year, the market went into bearish mode. Liquidity is an area of concern, and the interest rates are almost at the highest level in the last 10 years. But we have continued -- our growth has continued the momentum. And in fact, I've had one of our best quarters in the last -- in Q2. I'll move to this one. So in fact, while the last 3 years were very good years, we also spent some time building a very granular, a very consistent and a very annuitized business. Sumant had -- when we started this business of affluent, Sumant had thrown a challenge at us saying that, look, you need to have a model which works in both good and bad market. It cannot be that -- and he said that the market will never be always secular, will not have a secular trend. So market will have good and bad. It will go up and down. It can't be that when there's a good market, I have a great business, when the market goes down, which will happen cyclically, I'm struggling for my numbers. And I think I'm quite confident. In fact, the last 6 months is a validation of the fact that we managed to create a model which is showing that, as I said, my last quarter, quarter 2, has been the best-ever quarter that I had, and I had a great first half in this year. So this model, essentially, and I'll go into details in terms of when I start discussing this model, it rests on 3 pillars. One is that we've diversified our fee, and you will see that in the next slide, how we have diversified our entire fee structure, how it comes and from where it comes. The service, which I call it as a bedrock of my business, I believe that particularly in -- especially so for this segment, the customers, these clients, they talk about price, but they eventually end up buying on service. So this is an extremely, extremely important parameter for our business. And of course, you can never succeed if you don't have a capable team. So people is a very dominant part of this business. It's very people-oriented. So if I move to the next slide. Here, when we looked at the model at that time, we said, look, we need to diversify our business. If you see the wheel right now, this wheel looks totally different, this pie chart that you see, from what we had in the last, let's say, last 1 or 2 or 3 years. Right now, what you see is that almost 50% of the income is coming from the business owner segment and the rest of it is coming from the individual assets. So what we did was that when we started this business, we created an RM and we create an ecosystem around an RM. So every RM has a product specialist next to it. So when an RM identifies a need from a customer, he will go in the second meeting with a product specialist. It could be an asset specialist or a trade specialist or an FX specialist or an investment specialist. So that's how the whole thing started. And we -- it has given us a great dividend, and we are finding that even when the market is not reacting the way it should or in our favor, we continue to see the growth in this other side. In fact, additionally, we focus on full family segment. So most of our clients, we have on an average 1.8 client per household, which means that almost every customer that we have in the affluent segment, there are at least 2 customers there in terms of a family member. So every client we have at least one family member, we have gone very focused on this family, full family segment account, which has, again, given us big help. I mean, this could also be a business account. So in some cases, there could be 1 individual customer, but there could be a second business account. So therefore, the household average becomes 1.8 per household, 1.8 customer plus household. We have close to about 300,000 customers and 1.5 lakh of households, right? So that's the way. So I'll now go slightly deeper into each 1 of them. On the client experience side, as I said, I mean, this is really my competitive advantage. The way we have created a service environment around all our customers, we have a dedicated service manager for every client, and these service managers have no fee or a revenue target. The only thing in their KPI is the client experience. And we've also digitally enabled them. So I think [ Soumitra ] mentioned something similar for some of -- on the consumer side. Here, every customer, if it gives a service request, may be it a statement request or an interest certificate or a checkbook or whatever that may be, and it could be from any channel, whether it is done in the branch, it is left by -- with the contact center or is there on mobile banking or on the Internet, the moment the service request is placed, an alert is sent out to a service RM, and it becomes the responsibility of the service RM to ensure that, that request that has been raised by a client is fulfilled and closed within the given turnaround time. So it has really played out very well for us, this entire stuff. Not [indiscernible] again, NRI, sorry, is, again, a very, very critical segment for my business as well. We've created, again, a separate segment for these guys. We leverage on the setup that consumer bank has. These guys have 24/7 service call center. So a client can call from any place, any location at any point in time. We service them at any point in time of their choice and convenience. They could be calling from U.S. or Australia. Our contact center is open and available to them to answer any questions that they may have. Also, we have created a separate -- I think there was a question which was asked that do we see any particular -- a concentration of our clients in the geography? Well, I wouldn't say that there is a concentration, but definitely, I mean, we have, for example, the GCC area, which is the UAE, the Dubai area, we have a larger part of our customers sitting there, so we create a separate proposition for them. So normally, the proposition is not just for the customers when they come to India, but also while we're in Dubai, for example, we help them. There's an airport pickup for them in Dubai. We have Dubai Zomato tied up. We do their car insurance renewal, which is supposedly -- or a registration renewal, which is supposedly a painful process. So we take care of that bid for these customers, which is, again, very well appreciated and again, giving us very high dividends. The metal card that I would like to speak to you, again, all convenience stuff that we have created. This is the best-in-class card that we have. We give both the customers metal debit and credit card loaded with features, and we have taken now the service to even the next level. I think we saw these pictures, as I think Sumant mentioned, that when we see an ad, we have been launching these branches in many cities already. We have about 10 cities that we are covering. These branches don't look like a branch at all. They look like a lounge. So you can see in these pictures, actually this picture also don't do justice to the way this place looks. We have about 10 or 12 of these now already in there, 2 of them just coming up as we speak within the next 1 week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks kind of stuff that's happening. Our debit card is a very strong card. It gives you a zero markup. So I think we spoke about the FX card. But even on a debit card for Pioneer, if a customer is using it in U.S. or in U.K. or anywhere else, the conversion that you see is almost exactly as the -- you can check on the Xe app or on the IBR rate. It's exactly as per that rate. So -- and of course, we also powered it with unlimited golf games. Golf is, again, a very popular game for our kind of client segment and is very well used as well. So cards is doing very well. The other thing we do, just to ensuring in terms of the service, we have moved away from an RM scorecard now to a client scorecard. So what it means is that we start monitoring every client and see what the score of that client is. So we look at, one, as I said, one of the very important vector, the household segment. So we look at the household of these clients. If every client has been -- at least the family has been penetrated. We look at the product holding. Is the client holding 1 product, 2, 3? On an average, an affluent, the client holds 4.9 products, which means that every customer in my segment today has at least, on an average, have 4.9 products of the bank, are using 4.9 products of the bank. Digital enablement of course, we also track the transaction intensity of the customer. If we find that the clients are not transacting enough on our account, that means maybe we are not a primary bank for the customer. So we go back to the client, we speak to them, explain them the benefits and also show them some of the digital capabilities that we have. It helps us, again, to build that bit and strengthen the liability. The one big thing that this dashboard has done for us is that it has taken away from a [indiscernible] approach, which means that no RM -- if I'm an RM and if I have 3 very good clients. I can actually survive because I will get a very good fee from those clients and work with them, or maybe 5, 10 clients. But what this does is that even if I have 5 clients, I may get full score on these 5, but the remaining 150 clients that I have, I'll probably get no score, and it will show up here. so the RM gets exposed. So it forces the RM to ensure and engage with the remaining 140 clients as well because we know that there's value in the entire 150 customers that we have. So this has helped us big time in terms of improving our margins, our number, our productivity per RM. Because the way this business is -- I mean one is clearly, as soon -- as much as we scale, we will see more value out of it. And -- but it can't be just linear. The productivity is a big game here. So the more productivity that we show for the RM, and the growth becomes -- it starts compounding. The last is the people and the distribution. Again, as I said, this is extremely critical vector for us. My business is very people dominating business. Clients -- it's a relationship business, the clients actually buy the world of the RM who's there in front of him. So we continuously invest a lot in terms of training. There are regular trainings happening. There are regular market calls happening, almost as regular as weekly, just to ensure that the clients are fully aware of what's happening around them. The reward recognition, I think it was mentioned also by Soumitra. We do it on a regular basis. In fact, I was -- this weekend or last week or this weekend, we were in Portree celebrating the winners of the first half of this year. As I said, I mean we've had a great first half, so we have been celebrating. And in terms of distribution, we are already on ground for over 50 cities. We have about 10, as I said, Pioneer branches, 2 coming up. These Pioneer branches have been super success. I heard in the past that it takes even for HDFC to reach up to INR 100 crores, INR 150 crores in 3 to 5 years. We have seen in terms of the success of these branches, it takes less than one year to get to INR 100 crores to INR 150 crores. My Chandigarh branch, which is about 7 months old, is already past INR 100 crores. I have a branch in Kolkata, which is 7 months old. It's close to INR 100 crores. I have a branch in Delhi, in Punjabi Bagh, for those of you who are familiar with that place. It's about INR 500 crores. It's been the oldest branch. It's about 2.5, 3 years. So we are seeing great advantage of this visibility that we are creating plus these branches that are coming up. I have a few testimonials. We just picked it up from some of the customers. But the focus -- what we try to do is we try to focus that every client interaction has to be made delightful. And if you read this -- I mean, you don't have to read them actually in details, but the common theme that's coming across in all these 3 testimonials is speedy resolution, proactive approach, we try to create as much convenience as possible and superior service that we can offer to the customer. In fact, I'll tell you I had an opportunity to meet a customer last week and he's been banking with us for almost 24 years. And he was -- and now we have his family account, his children account. His grandkids are also banking with us. And we have a few of these multigenerational clients. I mean it's really -- it makes you feel really proud when you meet them. In fact it was very cool when he said to me that, "Samir, we would have not been where we are if -- without IndusInd Bank." So that's the kind of relationship that is there with this, between these customers and some of our bank and the RMs. It's clear that that's really the bedrock of relationship. Am I doing even faster than that, right? Maybe. Okay. So this is my last slide, actually. So this is a forward-looking slide. I have -- this is essentially have no hesitation in saying if I look at the past trends that I'm confident that I'll double my book. In fact, I'll grow faster than what I have grown in the last 3 years, seeing the track record. I mean we are compounding in numbers. Every year, in terms of how we are heading out, heading forward. So we are able to push. I think someone -- maybe Vikram mentioned outside that we are able to push on the strategic advantages that we have or the model that we created better than some of our competitors. We didn't stick -- initially when we started, we started as a pure-play wealth player. And very soon, we realize that we can't just be a one-horse pony. For the same reason as what Sumant had mentioned that, look, you can't be just dependent on one product as wealth. And if the market doesn't go in your favor, you start -- at that point in time, we realize that, look, we have such a rich HNI base, and we are able to do a lot more than just restricting ourselves to the wealth, but probably able to meet all their banking requirements. And we've seen a big success out of that. I mean, with those customers, the relationships that we have or we had. We are getting all their business transactions. We are getting their business requirements. And although when you saw the pie chart, it shows that we have now almost 50% income coming from the business owner segment, it doesn't mean that our wealth income has gone down. It's just that we have increased on our business owner side far more, much faster that it's right now looking like the 50%, 40%. Also, of course, in this market, this becomes more conducive when the market is also favorable on the well side. So in summary, we are excited about this business, and I'm quite sure that we will further succeed by driving our business, driving our synergies, and we will continue to invest in technology and also in the new initiatives. So a lot of work still to be done, but I'm quite certain that the large part of the heavy lifting is already over. We've done that in the last 3 years. Our models changed over that period. We used that time when the market was great in that period. I think right now, we have a good model. We have the right platform. We have good people and all the resources that are available for us to meet our numbers in the PC-6. And in the next 3 years, I'm quite certain that we will see this business doubling for sure, if not doing better. So I guess that's my time. I think I've taken 25 minutes exactly on the presentation. I'll open up for the Q&A, if any.

In the affluent category, which you are talking and the high HNIs and everything, they are opening international accounts, mostly with foreign banks because you're allowed to send $0.25 million per person and park it outside. Are you offering a product where I don't have to go to a DBS or another foreign bank and open a foreign currency account with you?

Yes. So you don't have to go to DBS at all. We can do whatever, what DBS or HSBC or Citi Gold could do. At this point in time, so there is an arrangement where you can have your LRS money, which is about $0.25 million every year, which you can move as an individual outside of India. And we offer that. So we have tie up with the foreign banks as well, where we'll allow you to do that. The other thing that's happening in this space is the GIFT City. So GIFT City allows the -- right now, to hold balances or funds in foreign currency. At this point in time, the way they have opened it up for resident, individual investors, it's not playing out very well. You can't hold the money in foreign currency for too long. I think they give you a grace period of about 30 days, and within that, you have to transfer it outside. And I've been -- we have been speaking to GIFT City as well. So GIFT City also forms part of this business, where we are able to actually then be able to park that money. And right now, you can make some investments in a predefined products, which are largely sovereign products.

Assuming not the GIFT City, you said you have tie-ups with certain banks outside? Or your own branch outside, or...

So we don't have a branch outside.

You don't have a booking center?

But we do have a rep office. We have rep offices in London, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, where we help in terms of more servicing the customers. We don't have a branch outside.

So who would be your partner, preferred partner bank?

So we have Bank of Luxemburg, we use if there's a need for our clients who want to transfer and fund parts of money outside of India and foreign currency.

I just wanted to get a sense of the competitive scenario in this space. Who do you acquire customers from? Are there customers who are coming through from, say, the larger private sector banks where customer service is an issue and they look to a better customer service offering like you? Or the earlier questioner also alluded to some of the foreign banks are now not so intensive in their marketing cities, in a state of flux, and probably losing customers as well. And when you index yourself, most of your customers would have multiple bank accounts. How does the journey happen? Does it start with small balances, and then over time, you acquire a larger part of their wealth? Or just to onboard the customer, you onboard the customer till the large amount of wealth comes on board. I just want to understand what -- who are your major competitors? How do you acquire customers? How is the customer's journey through your relationship? And are you seeing as a book that customer balances are improving all the time because you're offering a better service and they're drawing from balances with the other bank that they have relationships with. Sorry, long question, but just trying to figure out...

I think you have a good understanding of this business. So the answer is yes and no. Yes, in most cases, we do start small with our customers. And then over a period of time, the balance sheet starts growing. In fact, in my -- in this financial year, we've acquired close to already 10,000 customers. And on an average, on every month, I acquire a certain acquisition value. And in fact, it was very intriguing that if I acquire 100 -- let's say, 100 every month, that's my acquisition value. In the 6 months, I should have been 600, but it's 2,500. So that's how fast and how quickly this segment starts doing. A lot depend on the trust that the client has. He won't place a lot of trust immediately when he comes into you. But the other part of our acquisition strategy, as I said, is full family banking. So when we go to full family banking, there is already a trust established there. So a client is actually referring us because of his experience or her experience that they've already worked with us. Those are the clients who are giving us even larger value, and we are seeing some immediate and initial large value checks coming into us. The third -- and that's where I say that this model has played out very well. And even from a competition perspective, to answer that question, is that we do a universal banking. So I am not restricting myself only to wealth. Wealth is my foot in the door strategy. When I go to the customer, when I reach out to the customer, my first maybe protocol is towards the wealth. But very soon and immediately, because we have a lot of business owner segments, we are able to actually offer clients a full suite of transactions or banking requirements that this customer may have. Now in this case, frankly, there are not many competitors who are offering for these customers. ICICI Bank recently, I have seen in the last 1.5 months, they are coming up with their private banking ads and also I've spoken to some people there. So they are adopting this similar model where not only the wealth, but they were also looking at the business interest of the customer. But the other ones like Bergandi, or HDFC Imperia, they are still very limited and restricted. So that's what's. And the last, the acquisition that we get is from -- we also acquired a lot of RMs. We are able to give the ability to our RMs to do a larger business for the same customer, which in many banks, is not possible. And therefore, they end up making better revenue credit and better incentive, and this place becomes a place of choice.

A quick follow-up is on geography. Traditionally, most players have focused this business in metros, I should speak to most. Given the strategy that Soumit was also referring to in terms of home markets and you're trying to move out, is that your large opportunity from a 5-year perspective? Slightly underserved, smaller towns, where the market is large, but the competition is sort of ignoring.

Yes. So I mean, again, the metros definitely remain large right now. I mean they take the lion's share. But clearly, we are seeing value, and particularly value for our business because, a, we are one of the later entrants into this market. In the smaller towns in the Tier 2 cities, where we already have -- as IndusInd, we already have, we call them home markets. We already have our intensity in terms of the presence is already there. We are seeing huge value coming out. So markets like Patna, Jharkhand, Jaypore, Chandigarh, Kanpur, Bangalore, Ahmedabad, Hyderabad. I mean these are the markets where we are seeing -- we are deepening and we are seeing huge value. And in terms -- in fact, in many of these markets, and I gave the example of Patna, we are clearly the preferred choice for every client. We are very large. We are the largest, in fact. There are only a few markets where we are -- I can say that we are largest from a wealth perspective, from affluent perspective. That market is -- we are largest in that market, now also doing a similar bit in Ahmedabad we are seeing and also in Hyderabad. We're leveraging all the presence basically where we have already. Sorry, there's a question right at the back.

So as per my understanding, when it comes to wealth management business and this affluent client, HNI, RMs play a very vital role because they bring in these clients. But there is a certain tendency that when the RMs leave, it also punctures the client -- clientele, right? So what kind of attrition rate we are looking in in this business of RMs? And what kind of measures you are taking, let's say, if an RM is leaving, so with that, the client does not go?

Right. I mean, so RM is -- it's a very high dependency business for us. Client -- the individual. That's why I said that we the people is 1 big focus area. In fact, I tell this to Zubin that my biggest business partner is HR. Just to ensure that because, a, retention is a big key and b, the hiring is the second one. So we do a lot of stuff to make sure that at least we retain our -- the high-performing RMs. As I said, I mean, I just came back from an R&R. We celebrated success of a lot of performances that happened for -- in the last first half. We've also created a segment of RMs. We call them elite RMs where we give them special stuff. These are all the RMs who do a fee or a liability of a certain -- beyond a certain threshold. So we try to ring-fence these RMs as much as possible. We do see attrition, yes, but not necessarily that when RM attrites, we see about 20%, 25% of flight off from -- for the clients as well. But it's not anything beyond that. In fact, it's becoming also more difficult for RMs now, particularly because we have the model where client is -- RM is able to service clients lot of his banking requirements, which if he moves out, he may not -- he may have to give up half of those -- of that business or the credit that he gets today. In terms of percentages of RMs, I mean, I would say there are 2 types of RMs that we lose. One is regrettable RMs, where the guys who are performing, and we are not able to hold them back for whatever reason. And there's also another part of non-regrettable RMs, where there are some RMs who are not able to come up the curve, which we continuously, on a regular basis, I won't say we fire them, but I mean, by not giving incentives, but not giving increments, they come under pressure. So by regrettable levers, I don't know, Zubin, just correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it will be in the range of 25%, 26%. And I think you are fine as long as it stays around 20%, below 20%.

Samir, just to add on that. I think 1 thing which I want to just add to what Samir said is I think IndusInd is especially on the Pioneer side, is past the only institute or bank, which has a concept of [indiscernible]. I think your question was that if the client will move out, in our case, I can say no, because any client is actually mapped to 2 people. One is a RM, which Samir spoke about. The other 1 is a service RM. So mostly what we have seen is that these sales RM moves out, the service RM doesn't, because remember, Samir said that, okay, they don't carry targets. He mentioned it in his presentation. He don't carry targets. So these people are -- so we envelope the clients in 2 ways. One, through the state, the other 1 to the service. So the client -- there can be an attrition on the RM, but my client doesn't go out because I have 1 leg already there.

In fact, there's a third leg. So every customer who's beyond a certain threshold, there is a mandatory meetings of the supervisor. If it's even beyond further threshold, there's a meeting of a regional head, zonal head. So in terms of our better and good customers, we ensure that they stick around and they stay with us. But yes, we do lose some clients, right? Right. Okay. So that's my time. Thank you very much. guys. Thanks a lot. I'll leave it here.

Good afternoon. I'm Sriram. I have taken over from Mr. Partha, Head of Consumer Finance in January '22. I have been with this company for nearly 30 years. Before taking over this role, I have been heading commercial vehicle, construction equipment and light commercial vehicle as national head. And even before that, I have handled other products like 3-wheeler, cars and construction equipment, as stated. So I have adequate experience in this unit as a whole. And post taking over the entire industry has turned around. So more than the experience, I would say, like I'm lucky too. Now moving to the I'll start off like MD did, like on talking about the macro developments and how CFD has handled that. One of the major factors is the growing vehicle sales. There has been a huge increase in vehicle sales January, like all the vehicle segments, starting from 2-wheelers to construction equipment, everything has picked up, and the numbers are looking good month after month. And we also like have done much, much better. We had earlier clocked around INR 9,000 crores in the previous quarters. Now we have come to INR 10,000 crores. In Q4 of the last year, like we did INR 10,000 crores for the first time. And in the Q1, Q2, which are supposed to be the weakest quarters of the year, we have done INR 10,200 crores and INR 10,800 crores. It all goes very well for our future. Generally, like nearly 45% of the business comes in H1, and the H2 contributes to nearly 55%. And here, like we have done more than 21,000. So I'm pretty sure like we'll be doing around 25,000 in the next off. And raising interest rates. As everybody was feeling like nearly 2% increase has been there in the repo rate. So like we have been trying to increase our interest, so like we have managed to increase by 114 basis points for the December numbers. We were doing around 12.35 in December. Now we are doing the incremental disbursement is happening at 13.50. So it has been a good increase. And secondly, our book is entirely like fixed book. So the kind of like volume we do in the -- like in the peak of the intra cycle, it will go a long way to increase our bottom line in the future also whenever there is a interest rate drop. And the most important factor, like I would say, is the increasing freight rates. There have been lots of disruptions in the market, like there has been like COVID, after that, action load norms was there, and then there was the diesel price increase. Everything was not targeting very well for the commercial vehicle segment. But the increasing freight rate is 1 thing, like not only negated all these, but it's also like giving hope to all to be able to buy the new vehicles. Like the entire industry is banking on the freight rates to improve, and it has improved quite a bit. Nowadays, like there is a 90% efficiency in all the vehicles. The vehicles were applying earlier for, say, 80% to 75% to 80%. People are getting the onward loads, but the return loads that people have to come empty. But now there has been like good demand for the return loads also. 90% of the cases people get a return load. So it is very, very profitable right now. And there are some other developments which has happened or supposed to happen. Like 1 is the NBFC, like the NPA norms has been changed by RBI like it will become NPA on the 90th day of default. And going forward, unless they pay up the entire overview, it cannot be upgraded to standard. This is a huge change for NBFCs. This kind of change, it takes nearly 6 to 8 quarters for the entire NPA to show up. The entire NBFC industry they operate at nearly 10% SMA-2, apart from NPL levels, which range between 6% to 9%. So the entire SMA-2 will flow into NPA at some point of time because none of these guys will be able to pay up the overdue in full. So that is 1 thing like we are banking on to NBFC to slow down. And we, as a unit, we are better equipped to capture whatever is the slowdown by NBFC. So we are others in the same geography as the rest of the NBFCs. We are also having the customer profile, which is similar to that of the NBFC. So I think like we are best positioned to take care of any slowdown in NBFC funding. And the growing digital adoption by CFD is another factor we are banking on like in 2-wheeler and cars like we have adopted our digital journey, wherein we will be giving approval in 15 minutes to 1 day. Our percentage is somewhere between 3 to 5 days that we are improving it to 15 minutes to 1 day. This will also give us like more business. It will also help us to increase our productivity. This is the disbursement I was talking about. Like we have moved from [ INR 3,000 to 13 ] now the last month like we were 4,437. Before December of last year, we had already crossed 3,000 in 4 months in the entire tenor of CFD. So in the last 12 months, like we have crossed 3,000. And in November, also, like we are looking good for a 4,000 number, which will help us to close the quarter at INR 12,000 crores. And going forward, also, [indiscernible] we look at INR 12,000 crores to close the year at somewhere around INR 45,000 crores, INR 46,000 crores disbursement is what we are looking at, which will be all-time high for us. Last year, we did around INR 34,000 crores. And before that, like INR 36,000 crores was the highest ever we have crossed up. And we are very sure of crossing beyond INR 45,000 crores this year. And I have compared only the monthly peak before that. I have not compared with the previous year's number. I have compared with the previous peak, which CFD has done. So 8% over the previous peak of April, 10% over the previous peak of May, 24% over previous peak of June. And now, it is nearly 40%. And November is also looking good for another 40% Since the rate of interest was taking about from nearly 12.35%, we have nearly locked up to 13.50%. And going forward, I think another 10, 20 basis points, it can increase in the future by a better product mix. Like we are doing 2-wheelers, we are the #2 in the industry. But due to slow digital process, like we have slipped to fourth position. Now we are aiming to get back to a second position, which will give a year or up nearly 24% 2-wheeler. Once we mix -- once we change our product mix, we should be able to get a much, much higher yield in the product segment. Portfolio as a whole like whatever is the income or the yield is only 12.75%. But we will improve in the near future. We should get to 13% in the next 2, 3 months, like we should be able to get it to 13%. And apart from this, we do also make other income of nearly 1.4%. These are the USPs, like generally, like CFD has been using to get to this position. Like 1 as the vintage. We have been here in this industry as a leader, as [ lender ] finance or a CFD for more than 30 years. And all the people are very, very experienced. Most of the people have done 15 to 20 years in this division. So like we are able to use this vintage like kind of -- they have seen at least 2, 3 decisions. The COVID may be a new thing, but all other kind of decisions they have seen in the past. So they do not get bogged down by recession. They always take business calls even when there is a recession because they know the kind of business we write up in the recessionary period, like is generally more profitable and more safe than the rest of the time. On the network, we are nearly like 800 branches like Pan India -- sorry, 800 IM or those branches apart from nearly 400 branches of IBL, totaling 1,200 locations, but we serve nearly 43,000 PIN codes in this entire branch network. There is no part of India which is uncertain. Maybe Kashmir is the only state we do not lend to. There are still in the country like we have a very good presence. And all our branches are very, very yield conscious. And our like focus on the Tier 2, Tier 3 locations, that gives us the entire profit, like these kind of locations are generally not having a competition from the bankers. So we get much more yield because the competitors or NBFCs who have a much, much higher rate than CFD. So we are able to get our income up and balance out whatever our metro, wherever we have to compete with the bankers. And the process, we have the best-in-class staff in all the segments. We range between 3 to 5 days to give a sanction, which is in turn of the best, except 2-wheeler we have lost out. The rest of the industry like we are very much the best player in that part. And so this -- this is one of the unique things with CFD, like the branch is [ behind us ], both collection credit and business as a whole. Like they underwrite the business -- up to 1 to 2 vehicles, they can underwrite the business itself. Apart from collection and business sourcing, they do it. This is what they give, what you call, welcome service to the customer. It's not that they can do the business and run away from the customer. They have to service him for the entire 3 to 5 years [indiscernible] is going to be with the company. There's no way like we can escape from the customer for a service need. And later on, he cannot approach the customer for a business. No way the customer will entertain. So they always have a balance between like service and business. So that way, it has been evolving very, very good for this unit. Stable manpower. Our business, like generally, there's no -- not much attrition. Beyond the branch head level, there is very, very minimal attrition. Whatever attrition happens, it's below the branch head level. It is also more because of -- there is no movement in the beyond branch head level, so people do not see much of a growth. So people in the business executive role, they quit. Otherwise, once they get into the branch head role, their growth path is more or less different. Some people do stick on for the entire journey out here. Relationship. Our relationship with the dealers and OEMs is one of the best. Not only the feet on street has got our best relationship with the dealer employees, even the dealer owners or the dealer -- or the OEM employees, they have a good relationship with the people. They know whom to escalate a matter to. If there is -- if there is something which is not being attended to the field when people, they immediately take the phone and speak to the next level. This way like we are able to attend to all the problems and attend to all the customers also. And collections. This is one of the USP like we are very, very proud of, generally, like other NBFCs and banks. There are a lot only whatever is the bonds we take to a collection employee. But what we do is we alot around 250 contracts per employee, whether it's or new customer, or if he is paying on promptly, also he is allotted to that employee. So he keeps the service like part of those customers also. These customers, they have like need for NOC. They have a need for like a statement of account. There are other needs like insurance to be reviewed. Everything these customers approach these collection people and collection people also derive some income out of it. They do refer some used vehicle transaction, which is required by these customers to our business executive and get also certain incentives. That way, they also maintain the contact with the customer. They also earn and the customer also get the service needs. And they say like we also get upfront information. When our customer is going back, we know better than the rest of the industry. Even when the first month slippage is there, the collection person like informs us, whether the guy is profitably running and whether he's siphoning the funds or he is not able to run it, or like he has got other problems in the family which he can tie over, or it is only like an area of specific problem, which can change over in the years to come or months to come. This is the entire top-level team. It's not that we are banking on 1% or the entire product. It's like we have 8 to 9 product in CFD. All of these people have come from like a state level. They have been promoted to zonal head, zonal head to national product head. And I also come the same route. All these zonal leads have also like come from business executive, they have been promoted up to zonal heads. They are 43 to 50 range -- age range, and they are the future bet the organization, and they are doing extremely well, except Dinesh, who has come from outside., Rest of the people have been grown inside the organization. These are the rest of the products. Again, here, all these people have more than 15 years experience within IndusInd Bank, apart from some experience outside also. All these people are our future product heads. This is our market position. Like commercial vehicle, we are #2 in the industry next to HDFC. This is 1 area like where we have lost market share in the near past. Like we were having a market share somewhere around 12%. We had slipped to 9%, and now we are up to nearly 10.5% run rate is around 10.5%. The slippage in the -- whatever is the market share is mainly due to the interest rate, which is mainly offered by HDFC as Sundaram Finance kind of -- sorry, bankers and NBFCs. These people offer those rates which are not very profitable for us. So we do not compete on these rate trend. So we have lost out some amount of market share. More so like the retail -- whatever is the retail demand from the commercial vehicle segment has slowed down. Earlier, there used to be like 50% of 1 to 2 vehicle owner, which we are buying those vehicles. But now it has more turned towards our strategic kind of thing, but it will change in future. But right now, like we touched a low of 9.5%, and we are already up to 10.5%, which all goes well for the future, we'll be able to there is a strategic demand itself, we are maintaining 10.5%. When there is a retail demand, I think we will be one of the best. And construction equipment here, our market share has been steady at 13%, and we are steady at #2 position. Like it's more than 5, 6 years, we have been #2 to HDFC and we are maintaining the position out here. And total, I mean, principal outstanding in this segment is around INR 9,000 crores. Light commercial vehicle. This has been one of the trust areas in the last year, like we are light commercial vehicle and commercial vehicle together as a unit. But in last January, like we split it into a separate unit from a market share of nearly 4.5%, we have increased up to 9% because of the split. The current rent is around 10%, like last 2, 3 months, we are doing at 10%. And this is 1 area we think we can reach it to the top very soon. The higher in the segment is much, much higher than that are from commercial vehicle, and so like the profit also is much, much greater. Small commercial vehicle. Here, like we were a major player before. Like we used to have a #1 position in the kind of passenger vehicle segment. But due to COVID, the passenger vehicle segment in 3-wheelers has slowed down quite a bit. There are not many takers even the existing takers or I mean existing customers are finding it difficult to run it. It's not very easy because the share autos and autos are not playing fully. So there is a problem there. So slowly, we changed over to the good segment. From passenger or we changed to goods that like there is quite a bit of viability post COVID. People are able to operate it fully. So slowly whenever there is a passenger vehicle segment, we should be able to catch back that #1 position earlier had. Tractor and form equipment. This is one of the latest entry for CFD. Like we entered only in 2014. Before that we never were funding a tractor segment. We were funding as a portion of construction equipment, but as a separate unit, it was formed in 2014, so that we can do agri tractors. So there, we are doing very, very well, like from 0, like we have gone up to 9% in 6 years. Like we are the #4 in the industry. And slowly, all the 4 are already closed by nearly 9% to 12% market share range, all the 4 people or therefore, all the food bankers. So we should be able to catch up 1 or 2 in the next 2, 3 quarters. And 2-wheeler loads. This is another area where we have slipped up in the past. We were #2. We are -- market share was like nearly somewhere around 7.5 peak. We have shipped on market share also and also on. But as I said earlier, like we are entering into a solution through BCG and sales force and like we will be able to give a 1 day TAT. Post that, I think we should be able to catch back whatever is the last market share and also improve our share. And the passenger vehicle. This also has been one of our like very good performer in this year. Like we have increased our market share from 3% to 4%. And though we are #7, the auto loans, whatever is the amount which is generated every year by business is very, very good. Slowly, we have got up to INR 18,000 crores, which is same as the commercial vehicle. And very shortly, that should be more taking commercial vehicle as the leading product in this unit. Our total disbursement driving total cost is INR 70,000 crores as of today. Sorry, I didn't mention, like there is INR 24,000 crores MI loan which is getting -- which is getting placed and we are getting a refinance on that. And apart from that, agri loans from tractors is INR 8,000 crores, which not only senior PSL lending, there is also a VC funding available on those. And coming to the collection, this is Equifax report that we are getting from Equifax every quarter. We are comparing ourselves with the industry. The orange one is the entire industry, the gray one is is like only our tier -- or the main bankers like HDFC, ICICI, Axis, YES Bank and Kotak. So we compare ourselves with them. Except in [ 30 plus ], the other I think we are either in line with the peer in the industry or even better than them. If you look at commercial vehicle, except in June quarter, where we slipped them gone beyond Pier 1, which is mainly because slipped in Odisha, whey they introduced the export duty on iron ore, which made it very, very unprofitable for iron ore exports. So people curtailed and curtailed their operation, and they were not even mining or exporting. That plays quite a bit of burden on our customers who are doing all the kind of transports from the mine to the port or to the industry. Now that export duty has been totally -- like in the last 2 days, it has been what you call canceled and it is back to the old levels. I think in the coming months, we should be able to get back to the difference like before what was existing. Same thing in the construction equipment. Though on the June '22 quarter, because of the iron ore and also in the September '22 quarter, we have slipped a bit because of Orissa. We should be able to catch back in the coming quarters. PV new, the auto loans, like we are the best in the industry, both by overdues and also by NPA level like ours is one of the best in the industry. are performing better than the peer in the group. It's the other bankers itself. Our NPL levels are sub 1, and nearly 0.3 to 0.73 is the NPL level depending on the time period. And it is one of the best product available in our industry. Two-wheeler here, we have not compared the peers because the HDFC is one of the major peers, like as the major disbursement of the industry is skewed towards HDFC, Equfiax is not giving a report because you will be able to guard your HDFC portfolio itself out of that. So they are not giving it any peer comparison. So we are comparing only with the industry. We have -- even against the industry, we have slipped up in 60-plus, mainly not due to the NPA increase, mainly due to the numerator also, the denominator also decreased actually. Like we are having INR 6,000 crore portfolio, whereas we slipped down to INR 4,500 crores. So because of that, like due to COVID, we had stopped our business during around 6 months in the first COVID and 3 months in the second COVID. So the portfolio dropped. That had a huge impact on the percentages. Hence, like it looks worse than what it is. In the coming months, we should be able to reduce [indiscernible] 5% by at least year-end both by getting the actual NPA down from the INR 350 crore level nowadays and also increasing our base from INR 4,500 crores to somewhere around INR 5,500 crores or INR 6,000 crores in the next 3 or 4 months. Already the last 2 months are looking good. We are doing cutting not less than INR 500 crores in each of the months. I think with the sales force, whatever journey he was talking about, I think we should be able to increase it much further. This is a tractor. This is one of the late entry for us into tractor segment. Hence, like we are more or less in line with the industry. I think once we get experience in the tractor segment, I think we should be able to perform much better than the industry itself. And these are the focus areas like used car, commercial vehicle is 1 segment. which is more profitable also. The kind of whatever is the NPA credit cost coming out of it is not very variant from the -- it is more than a new vehicle, but not vary variant considering 4%, 5% extra income, what is coming out of used vehicle. I think it is a good bet to be in. And the kind of things like used vehicle composition, what we have is really 60% comes out of the existing customers, who have repaid the loans. Another 25% comes out of the customers wherein the customer himself is selling and he generally refers our buyer to us for financing. These 2 are a bit safe area because, one, there is no transfer of vehicle involved in the fast case. Second case, there is transfer in all, but these are our customers. So we know like whether the seller is fraudulent or not, whether we will run away from transferring the vehicle. So that kind of risk is not there. Only the risk of buyer not performing is only that. So this 85% of the cases were in like there is no risk in transfer of vehicle. The customer, anywhere like we are evaluating these kind of customers only for a new vehicle also. So we don't see like it will be too variant in this 85% from new vehicles. The other 15%, we do take up cases wherein we fund before the name is transferred to the buyer. Here, there can be some hiccups like from transferring from 1 customer to another. There are certain RTO issues. There are also within that time like the engine will like concur, so the buyer will not like be interested in taking the vehicles. That kind of problem exists. But at 85% is safe, this 15%, there is some amount of risk, but there is an increase margin available. And the new late commercial vehicle, that's what I was talking about. Already, we have made inroads into other competitors. I think we should be able to get to the top very soon. Affordable [indiscernible] this is one area like we have slipped up though we have started in 2018. We have run up a book of around INR 2,000 crores. Some -- this was run up even before COVID with this INR 2,000 crores. After that, it has been steady at INR 2,000 crores, though we are not able to increase it. We will be focusing in the next 3, 4 quarters, whether we can scale up this volume. And tractors, again, from start in 2014, we have come to a stage wherein near we are nearly INR 10,000 crores portfolio. This is one segment which gives like PSL advantage also. So we are focusing on this segment. And the return out of the segment is also quite good. And these are the digital incentives what we have taken, which has held us like very good advantages. So IndusInd CIVID is 1 the where we are marketing our repossessed vehicle through this segment. This way like we are able to improve our price realization also and gets us also like comparative quote that are all available digitally so that when customer goes back to a quote stating that price is low, we are able to show them the platform, everything. That way, it is useful. And going forward, I think we should be able to get all the customers, the buyers also into financing terms. This is 1 area. And the interest rate, that is what I was talking about. We have coming to a solution wherein we'll be able to give a sanction from 15 minutes to a day. That is 1 area. Both this like we will be demonstrating in our star outset, please do look at it. And we also service our company clients to watch a banking on the Indus mobile wherein customer ask for statement of 1 or their interest chart or anything regarding the loan, we are able to answer them. And we are also send them able to promotional materials of whatever schemes what we are having and what is the benefit out of these skips. Thank you. Open to questions.

Yes, sir. So in the presentations that were made on the Analyst Day a couple of months back, you had also shown 30 DPD, 60 DPD, 90 DPD for all the businesses. Now there was a clear trend that for CVC sectors, 30 DPD is not materially different from peers. But gradually, that is with 60 and 90 DPD, we are able to perform better. How should we read this?

One thing is like we debit delay interest on every month on the delays, like whatever -- whenever there is a delay of 15 days in the customer, we do debit whatever is the delay interest as per the agreement into the account. Generally, like not all the -- there are some bankers who do it. There are some NBFC who do it, but not all of them do it. So naturally, there is a slippage of 1 bucket to another. So whatever is like if the customer pays the due alone, he doesn't pay the delay interest, then it slips to 1 bucket higher. So that is where like there is a difference. We make it up in the next 2 months, where we do collect it, and we are rest still back. And beyond 60 days, we do not debit the delay interest when client reaches a 60-plus bucket. We do not debit the delay interest. That is one of the major reasons why 30-plus is variant, but 60 plus we are able to catch back.

So essentially, -- does it imply that in underwriting or in collection, there isn't much difference between us and peers. It is just a accounting or entry?

There is no difference in NPA at all. Like once it reaches NPA like entire delay everything is reversed, whatever the income is reversed. There is no difference in accounting in NPA. In more new situation, yes, there are certain people, who do not debit the dealer interest, we debit it religiously. Like we do not allow it to slip on we collect it in the next 2 months.

And any particular reason we are not able to replicate the same success in 2-wheelers?

In 2-wheelers?

Yes. Two-wheelers performance is on par with peers.

Yes. That is because like numerator has come down quite a bit.

So that is the case with PSL as well and a lot of them have not grown their books.

See, like there is a difference between the main competitor was HDFC. There is a difference in kind of underwriting in HDFC. HDFC was mostly concentrating on salaried employees. We were doing it for kind of masons, carpenters, milkman like that. So there was a bit of a time period during COVID, wherein people who are not making money. And we also never gave them, say, past 3 months moratorium we give. After that, we didn't give them restructure portion also. We were totally awarded as restructuring is. Because the interest rate was so high, we postponed it. There is a ballooning of whatever is the loan amount. So we avoid doing that. So all these people ran to NPA level after the collecting all the 3 installments back, it's not that easy as they are in a trade war and they cannot pay more than 1 installment. We are slowly collecting it. Maybe in the months to come, we should be able to bring back the NPA level also and increase our outstanding also, which will have a dual impact.

So you don't feel there is any reason to revisit the lending segment, the rates underwriting or any of the...

We have already revisited. There are changes we have already made, and our new system is kind of giving more so 60%. We are looking at people who have an income, which can be demonstrated in the bank statement, IT return or salary this thing. Yearly, it was more than 70% to people who are not having it on records. Now nearly 60% will be people who will be having the income on records. There are 40% only we will be playing around with the other kind of categories.

Wonderful. On affordable housing finance, can you provide some more flavor on the kind of segment you are targeting, yield structure you would want to target?

So we have chosen nearly 100 locations in Pan India. Only in these locations, we are operating right now. We are looking at all kinds of customers who are coming in that range wherever like commercial vehicle kind of customer also, we are looking at. So this kind of industry only like are paying the interest rate what we are demanding. We are demanding somewhere between 12.5% to 14% whereas the salary donors and our salary people now are getting housing loan, which is much below 10%. So this is a segment we are targeting, and we are targeting also our existing customers and some referred by. We are in the learning process. We are able to crystallize on which is the exact segment we'll be focusing on. But in the time to come, like we should be able to focus on certain segments.

Any sense on the average ticket size there?

All right. INR 12 lakh is the average ticket sales.

Okay. So this business will continue to be driven through the CV franchise?

Yes, right. It is.

And any desire to go inorganic to build a size, maybe get ready...

Yes, we are looking at, we are trying, we are not able to make inroads. But I think we have a [indiscernible] which is being introduced, [indiscernible] we are doing it. It is being introduced in 1 or 2 places this month. I think going forward, if we are able to get our that down, which is already nearly take 9 to 10 days. If we can get it to 3 to 4 days, we should be able to make inroads into this segment.

And the potential inorganic opportunities will be in, flavor wise, similar to what we are doing currently.

I'm not looking at that. Maybe MD will be able to answer that better as well. Any other questions? Thank you.

Good afternoon to you all. My name is Sridharan. Am I audible? Yes. I think it is a natural order of things that my turn is coming now. Prior to launch, we Had [ Summit Pro ] and Sameer want talking about banking, then came Sriram, who talked about banking to people who are slightly outside the city side and towards the country side. And now, I'm going to talk about a business, which IndusInd Bank and is BFIL is doing in deep rural. So we are the Bharat. Before I go into slightly more involved discussion on what has happened to the economy and how we are managing and about our business. I thought that I'll just give a brief 1 slider on who we are. And we are the new kid on the block as far as IndusInd is concerned. We got acquired by IndusInd Bank in 2019 through a merger. And the way it was structured is that half of the merger, the business correspondent undertaking will be offloaded to a wholly owned subsidiary, so that we do the business for IndusInd Bank as a wholly owned subsidiary. The balance sheet is in the bank, but the entire business performance is driven by the unit, which continued to manage the business. Now in terms of an industry, we are an industry leader. This business, BFIL business, which earlier known as SKS, Swayam Krishi Sangam, started way back in 1997. This is our 25th year of business. It started as a mutual benefit trust, then NBFC and BFC, then got acquired. Now we are a undertaking. In terms of the core strengths and what we actually do and who we represent, I just want to look at the culture of the organization as to who we are and what do we do? Our ethos is basically in 1 word, responsibility because we deal with customers who are at the bottom of the pyramid, who are coming into formal banking or formal credit market for the first time or they're early entrants, so they have to be educated on their responsibilities. And we also, as a responsible lender, when you find a large number of times, that should not be any lower leveraging. So the responsibility to the and also responsibility to depositors, the investors, these are the underlying thing of our life business from the day we started the business. It is not that it has come just only now in the last 4 years or 5 years or 3 years. Secondly, the success of this business, the success of SKS and BFIL business has been because of the very, very, very strong risk culture. I've got a slide on what I mean by that, but this is one of the biggest strains. And third, whatever we do, it has got a very high social impact. As I told you that our customers are, to a large extent, first time coming into the formal credit market. And the journey of our interaction with them start with educating them, telling them what do they need to do in terms of this thing. They are all having high aspirations to start a business, but we tell them what are the importance of saving, how to support each other in terms of need and what is the importance of meeting the credit obligations very, very regularly. And that, where we start the lending journey -- and this actually gives a huge social impact to the customer community, and it also gives a lot of pride to our operating team. If you meet the area of my 23,000 loan officers who are on the field on an everyday basis, each of them is highly charged because each of them talk to clients whose life we are changing. Now in terms of our strength, we are a very, very strongly, deeply entrenched rural business organization. 80% of our business comes from the rural area. Out of about 500,000 plus villages in the country, we operate in 133,000 villages. We are present in about 500-plus districts. So the deep rural reach is what is giving us one of these thing. The other thing is that our business is highly templated and we have to -- the way we start with the customers who are in the part of the pyramid, my employees are also joining us from the same mill. So we have to give them a very, very focused training. We need to first educate them as to how they need to interact with the customer, how they need to manage, how they have to conduct the central meeting. So the entire process is completely templatized and completely clearly articulated, there is no doubt when our Sangam manager or the loan officer completes his 45-day training program, he or she will be exactly equal and to another person who has been there in the field for the past 5 years. That is the way we train them and then we send them to the field. Then third is the technology that we are able to use, especially in the last 5, 6 years. I have heard of -- I joined 1 year ago, so what I'm talking about 10 years ago or 6 years ago is built on what is documented and then explained to me. 10 years ago, when the entire industry was completely on paper, you have to collect the application form, process it centrally, give the loan in cash. SKS at the time was the first company which started introducing computers. From that time onwards still today, in terms of the digital journey, BFIL is leading the pack every well. I've got a slide to show you. I also will tell you when the customer journey comes, how it is end-to-end digital. Then the last thing is our employees. We are a people business. When we manage 80 lakh customers, 80 lakh loan clients and about 90 lakh other clients who have savings account with us, this has to be managed to buy my last mile loan officer. I cannot have a 4 principal everywhere because I can't have a person to shadow every loan officer who goes to the field. So the way we train them, the way we impart values to them should be in such a manner that they are able to exercise their job efficiently and on an adequate controlled passes. This can happen only when we take care of our employees very well. So employees are a very, very critical component of our business model. And the strength of that, I want -- on this slide which later I'll show as to what we mean by our employee strength. So as of now, as of September, we managed INR 32,250 crores of asset business for IndusInd Bank. And we also have got a liability base of INR 1,700 crores, which has been organized purely based on our meeting them. As of now, it's not to any promotional activity. We just go them and we tell them that, look, there's an opportunity for you to start a recurring deposit account. We opened savings account faster instantaneously until there are some samples money, we ask them to put it and fix deposit. So with this, we are able to manage 1,600, which is 5%. Our plans are there to take this to a much higher level. So this is what we are -- currently, we operate our business through 3 verticals. One is the micro finance, which we call member services, which is predominantly a joint liability group based model. This is the largest business unit, one of the oldest business unit. The second is the one which really excited us. We started that in 2019. This is the loan to rural and semi-urban shopkeepers purely on a templed, but in a very, very differentiated product offering. This we have scaled up pretty nicely. What started at close to 0 in 3 years, 3.5 years, it is 2,700, and it is tracking upwards 25% to 50% year-on-year growth, and it will grow further. The third is our Bharat Money store, which is a sub BC agent network that we built up. As of now, this also started somewhere in 2017 on a pilot. Even now, we are running this more as a service offering, not as a sort of what to say, we have not fully monetized this. What we started as a SoC network with a few shopkeepers who we enable them with the technology to give them AEPS-enabled payment services with the business, which has started with about 10 merchants 5 years ago, is now around 80,000 merchants, half of them do transaction at least once a month. And this actually is growing. We would like to monetize it in the next 3 years. So this is what we are in terms of our business. Before I go into a discussion on our individual business as our organization a little more deeper, I thought that we will spend a couple of minutes on what happened in the recent past, especially in the last 6 months in terms of external environment? And what opportunities it gives us and how we have done that? While many things have happened in terms of our industry, I would like to look at only 2 major things. One is the RBI coming out with a unified set of guidelines for the entire micro finance industry. Earlier, prior to this RBI guidelines, there are a set of regulations, which impacted all the NBFCs, NBFC MFIs, and there was ticket-size caps, exposure caps, whereas the banks and small finance banks had a much more freedom. And the way the industry looked at the business model was slightly different and differentiated. RBI came out in March 2022 with a uniform set of guidelines, which is for the entire industry. Now what has that done for us is something that as of the questions we asked in the morning, I thought that it's an opportunity for me to explain to you. In terms of the guidelines, RBI has made 2 principles very, very clear. One, you should look at these borrowers who are at the lower end of economic wealth holding at a household level and do not split them into individuals, and there is no way by which you can assess the individuals income. It is all a family income. So any family whose annual income is up to INR 3 lakh and any collateral fee that you give to them. So collateral fee loan you give to them, is a micro finance loan. A very simple decoration it is applicable to all the entities, whether you are an NBFC lender, whether you are a cost foods into licensed by RBI or whether you are a small finance bank or a commercial bank, whoever it is, this rule is applicable. Second, in terms of ensuring that the lending is more responsible, cash flow approach has been brought by RBI as a mandate. Just prior to this, almost the entire industry had an exposure as the measurement. Why? Because somewhere 10 years ago, RBI said that if you are an NBFC and you are lending to MFI, then individual exposure cannot be more than INR 1.25 lakhs. So because of that, the entire industry fixed their business model in terms of whatever exposure that they give to the customer, irrespective of what they earn, where they live, what sort of cash flow that they have. And all their lending models was based on that. Now RBI has brought this thing back and say that you need to assess who your household is, what their income, and not more than 50% of that income can go towards loan obligations. You decide your business offering conserving this, this brings a great amount of responsibility to the lenders. And this also gives a great opportunity for us. I'll explain this. Prior to this RBI guideline, almost every lender used to say that, look, RBI has given a limit of INR 1.25 lakhs, and I will go on giving up to this limit. The only thing is that I'll go and then check the credit bureau where only MFI loans are populated. So you only look at the MFI exposure of that client and then you keep on giving them. Whether you have got multiple relationships, multiple lenders to the same customer, as long as you are within that cap and you find a borrower, you give a loan. Now there is also a requirement to capture the income, but that was not part of the factor. As far as BFIL is concerned and even earlier SKS, as I told you that, responsible lending has been our ethos. While the INR 1 lakh or INR 1.25 lakh cap was there, we consciously never went to the extent of giving them unless we are sure that the customer needs it. We had put that in our business model and our credit valuation. So when the RBI guidelines came, we were one of the first off the block to build that RBI guidelines was announced on March 14. We have just given a 3-week time to switch over. April 22, we have the complete end-to-end digital journey steps together where we can go to the customer, assess the customer's household income, evaluate the customer's requirement for the loan, and then give this thing. Second, we are all now forced by this regulation to look at the overall comprehensive credit bureau history of the customer. Really almost every lender was looking only at the MFI outstanding, the customer may have a CC loan, the customer may have a 2-wheeler loan, the customer may have any other sort of retail loan, which is not coming part of the MFI bureau. So with the comprehensive credit report and the overall credit exposure coming in, we have a great opportunity to look at the customer, our income, our families' income, our family is outstanding, and then offer products which can meet their overall requirement. This is a great enabler for us to come and then stand here and say that we will not be a micro lender, we'll be a micro banker. So the journey from a micro lender to micro banker is greatly enabled by this regulation. And as far as we are concerned, we have not found much challenge in doing that because the evaluation of our customer had in built this in some manner or the other. Then the other thing like the transparency are part of our this thing. So in terms of the RBI regulations, we were one of the first to implement. Even though RBI came out with an in FAQ late July. They said that, look, we find that industry is still not -- this thing there are some people who want to have additional time, so until 30th September, we can continue to have older practices. We do not revert back what we implemented in the month of April. We continued because we've already embed those guidelines in our business model. Then as far as the intrastate scenario is concerned, we were able to pass on some amount of the rising interest rate. After a long, long time, we've revised the rate of interest from 19.75% for the JLG business, which is the micro finance business by 75 basis points. Even though the industry interest rate has gone up by more than 190 basis points in terms of the regulatory rate. We have passed on 70 basis points. We are watching the scene as a large lender. We are still evaluating whether there is any scope for further increase in the rate. we are not going by what some of the other smaller NBFCs have done who have increased the rate by 200, 300 basis points. We are watching the space. As I again telling you that our -- this thing is more towards a responsible lending. Now with that, let me come to a little bit of who we are, who are our customers, and how do we serve them before I go into a quick discussion on our individual businesses. Our customers are all entrepreneurs. They are as entrepreneurial as a really large business person that you can see. The only difference is that these people's economic wealth holding is pretty low. They are at the one end of the spectrum, but these are all entrepreneurs. These people who are small business owners, they are looking for finance. Earlier, there -- before they come to entities like us, their only funding availability is a local money lender. We bring them from a local money lender. We educate them about the financial industry lending group participation, paying on time, and we make them a responsible borrower. So in our member services business, all the customers are women entrepreneurs. In the member services business, we lend only to women and only in a joint liability group model as of now. The journey towards individual lending will come a little later as a product expansion. But Today, our customers in the member services business, the 75 lakh loan borrower, the borrowers are all women. They are all organized into joint liability groups. And as I told you that they're all coming from bottom of the pyramid, and in terms of exclusivity, to a large part of them. About 7 years ago, we used to be -- 70% of our customers to be unique to only us. But this industry, because of the high rate of interest and better margin, has seen a large number of players coming and then staying for some time going back and new sort of players coming in. So the multiple people lending to the same customer is pretty high. We do have certain standards of how many lenders we do permit. As we speak, 41% of our borrowers are borrowing only from us. They are not borrowing from any other entity, whether it's an NBFC or a bank, whether it's a micro finance loan or a scooter loan or any other loan. 41% on are unique to us. And these customers are predominantly rural, as I told you, 80% of the customer base is rural, and we are present in 23 states, 500-plus districts and 133,000 villages. And our customers, someone asked during lunch time, as to what are the industry in which they are there. So this is a thing that most of our customers in the rural area are in agri and alike agri activities. That can be poultry, that can be being -- I mean, cows and the buffalos or some small, existing shops, handloom, handicraft, small trade, they buy and sell vegetable, hobby culture. So anything in the rural which requires some amount of a business where they need funding, we go and then approach them and then take. In terms of technology, the bottom part is that this is where one of the differentiating factors that has come into our business model. Prior to the mobile penetration and especially prior to other, most of the business processes were paper driven. We have to collect the application from, process it at a huge cost in terms of originating the customer, evaluating the credit and serving the customer. when the mobile and RR penetration has come, we are proud to say that we, as the deeply rural part of this country, provide a completely end-to-end digital journey to the customer. Now our customers, and I say that the digital, they are not digital savvy than they can do everything on their own. While the journey is digital, we are there to support them to start the journey. The sourcing of the customer is not digital. We are not a fintech to originate the customer on a nameless basis. every single customer who walks into BFIL and Indusind Bank is physically met by a loan officer and also a supervisor. There is no customer who is onboarded without at least 2 people meeting the customer. And these customers, when they come into the system, their journey from start to finish is completely paperless. There is not a single document, which I have to collect from them and store them. There is no signature required then to enable the payment. And in terms of the key things that differentiate us from the market is our agility, our efficiency in cost efficiency and our execution capability. In terms of cost efficiency, we continuously monitor our efficiency in terms of cost per rupee of asset or in terms of our income to cost-to-income ratio very, very meticulously as compared to the competition. We continue to benchmark much better than the entire industry. Of course, we have got a desire to improve it further. We've got an ambition to do it further. We will certainly improve. But in terms of our current operational capability, we are the best in class when it comes to cost-to-income ratio. And the only thing that differentiates us from any other lender is our execution capability. There was also some discussion of -- on what this organization is about and some senior people have left and what is the impact and things like that. BFIL is an organization which is not seen by many other than through the numbers that we put out on investor presentation quarter-on-quarter. This is a pretty large, stable organization. Now I have taken over 1 year ago to lead the unit, but it is not that the rest of the organization I have brought. The rest of the organization entirely, is the same that existed earlier, whether the Head of Member Services business or Head of the Bharat super shop or Bharat or my people officer or there or internal audit head or my account said, every single 1 of them existed there. And it is not that these are the only guys who are there. We are 30,000-plus 35,000 people organization now. The layer which is below them and the layer below them is highly stable. And that is the reason why the management change at the top could happen. Of course, some of the impact what people noticed was more what is perceived based on what you see in the media, what sort of -- what you say, news item that is put together. But as far as the core of the organization is concerned, when I am present through my 3,500, 3,200 branches, they are there. They know exactly what they have to do morning to evening. They are supervisor layer, which leaves 25 kilometers away from them, their supervisor layer. That entire network is intact and this organization has been successful only because of that sort of infrastructure, and that has remained. Now as far as the organization chart is concerned, as I told you that we are a busy as a business correspondent regulatorily, we are permitted to distribute the products. The risk architecture or the product development architecture or the technology architecture or the overall supervision control has to be done by the bank. So you find some portion of the activity, which are managed by Indusind Bank. And the rest of the distribution organization rolls into me and then I report to Sumant, who is the Chairman of the Board. So just to give you assurance in terms of organization, this has been a stable organization. And proof of the putting is that, for example, one year ago, when people had certain apprehension of what would happen, you have seen 3 quarter results. You have seen results of December, March, June, September. In fact, 4 quarter results have been out, and you are seeing the trending. This is a very, very stable organization, and I'm proud to lead this organization. I'll just take few more seconds or minutes in describing the member services business first because many times when I talk to people, they are not able to relate as to what exactly this business is and what do we do? As analysts, many of you might have gone to the center meeting, might have understood, might have spent some time, especially those who cover MFI business. Just to give a recap, this is a very, very highly involved customer journey. The customer doesn't become a loan client on day one. As I told you that financial literacy, educating the customer and organizing them to groups, teaching them what they have to do, where they do not know, forms the core of this activity. And from there, everything else comes. In terms of our lending, it's all exclusively women borrowers and it is a group-based concept. As the joint liability or the -- the model of a peer lending is completely ingrained in our listing. We do not give a loan to a customer, the Grameen Bank model. We are true to the Grameen Bank model even today. We do not give a loan to a customer unless the customer is in the center meeting and the other members of the group know that this is a person to whom we lend because collectively, even though there is no formal guarantee, collectively, they all assure that the group will repay because the next tranche of loans will come only when the entire center is completely due without any overdue. So to ensure that this Grameen Bank model is intact, we do lend only in groups and the other thing is that we, today, after taking over -- after becomes part of the bank, we provide not only micro loans. We also provide banking services to them. As I told you that we give them a recurring deposit facility, savings bank account facility, fixed deposit facility. In case the customer, does not have a bank account, we instantly open a savings bank account and the entire loan disbursement, whether it is a customer who has got savings account with us or to any other bank the entire loan disbursement is directly into the account of the customer. There is no cash involved. And in terms of repayment, even today, we truly follow a weekly -- repayment. Every single loan to the joint liability group model, the customer has to pay installment week after week by being present in the center meeting. This brings the discipline of working together and the discipline of borrowing and lending with the women. And the small repayment ticket sizes gives them the ability to repay cash on a regular basis in terms of having a huge burden on a larger ticket on the month end. The process orientation is very, very innate in our business model, both with the customer segment as well as the employee segment. The other thing that differentiates BFIL and SKS with the industry is the resilience that BFIL has shown in managing whatever shocks that we have gone through, whether it is a large-scale shock in terms of, let's say, a demonetization impact or some of the larger floods and earthquakes that have happened or the recent COVID, which was one of the prolonged one. All through the cycle, you can see that the growth rate of BFIL has always been slightly out of the market. And our market share has remained highly impact. And even today, we command 11.4% of the market share in almost every geography in which the business is present. So while I can go on talking about more about this business, since time is limited, let me just move over to the next feed on the block, which is the Bharat Super Shop. When we looked at the business after the merger, one of the things that we found was that this large franchise is significantly involved in only one model of lending and one type of asset, which is the JLG business. So how do we diversify? So we picked up from where our strengths lay. Our strengths lay in identifying a customer who is at the beginning of our formal credit journey, educating them and being with them giving a loan. So we looked at the rural, not even rural, the semi-urban mom-and-pop store, the kirana stores and all other types of small businesses where they require finance, but they do not have access to the formal listing. In our business model, we first picked them up, and we have started with educating them. This is not in group, but we go and tell them that look for you to become a borrower from a formal market, you need to have the discipline of paying regularly. So those customers who do not have a formal credit exposure to anywhere in the country, we start them with a recurring deposit product. We tell the customer that look, I will onboard you. I will give you an instant current account. I also will give you a QR code, basis which you can acquire transactions digitally. You also will be given a checkbook in case you want, but you should start with us on a recurring deposit. That recurring deposit amount should be something similar to the GWI that you are supposed to pay. Now only when the customer pays four EWS continuously, we understand that the customer has understood the concept of payment. And with this product offering, we were able to scale this up quite successfully. So the product offering is that it is not that we look at the customer, we go and then talk to the customer and then first give a check and saying that, look, this is your loan. Our credit evaluation looks on 2 principles, whether the borrower is stable in the place of business, and whether the borrower has understood that if you take a loan, you need to repay on a regular basis. Once the customer has completed the first cycle without any issue, we then evaluate and move them to a monthly cycle because monthly cycle gives us a little more loan efficiency, but that we do it on a very selective basis. The success of this business model is the comprehensive credit offering that we make and we being there physically with the customer every week, every month. In terms of operational model, one thing that differentiates this from the JLG is that, here, the entire repayment because we open a current account for the customer, the entire repayment is from the account. 80% to 82% of the customers the -- their standing instruction for loan repayment gets exercised at the beginning of the day. There is no need for somebody to go and then remind or collect. Another 12% to 14% on the day they make the payment so that the transaction is settled. There's only about 3% to 4% where our loan officer has to go and physically meet them and do the collection. So in this product, the transaction, whether it is customer onboarding or loan or even collection is end-to-end digital, and that actually has given us a fantastic opportunity. In terms of business, we identify the trades to which we will lend and the geographies in which we lend. We don't give it to every single person. We started with 1 activity, 2 activities, 3 activities. When I met the investors about 4 months ago, we had 38 different types of trades. We have add another about 12. So right now, we are giving to 52 different type of trades through which we will lend. And we keep adding to that, and that's how we expand the business. And in terms of the growth, I told you that we were INR 375 crores in March 2021. In 1 year ago, we could scale it up to 1,900 and the last 6 months, we have further increased to 2,700. Now in terms of the service, there's a door-step banking and comprehensive product and this right-side picture gives you where our customers are concentrated, this 50-odd trades. I think I'll skip this. This is basically what we have talked about. It's in terms of the growth journey that we have got. Initially, we started with very small product of 3 months to product and 6 months product. And later, we have moved to 50 weeks and 100-week product, and that's why we have completed nearly 4 cycles of loans. This is the Bharat Money Store. In the morning, [indiscernible] talked about the Uttarakhand initiative, where one the features that we could present to the Uttarakhand government is our ability to provide last-mile banking services to the deep rural country in terms of account opening, remittances or loans. And that was enabled by the Bharat Money Store. When we looked at this in 2017, even prior to merger, some of the problem statement that came before us was that the rural India does not have a point of persons to do financial transaction of both banking as well as a simple transaction settlement, whether you have to go and then pay your utility payments or electric -- gas payment or a mobile recharge for any of them, they have to travel to a place which is anywhere taking them from 2 hours to nearly half the day. How do we solve that? Through technology, through association, through engaging the business correspondent network, we can provide banking services to them. The other genesis and from 2019 to 2020, for example, these are the services that we offer today in the Bharat Money Store. They can open a savings account, current account, they can do cash deposit, cash withdrawal, all electronically, their account gets debited or credited instantaneously. The BBPS based bill payment they can make and they also can do any other financial transaction like whether it's an IMPS or on any of the transaction and like the Uttarakhand government or the Tata Power, we also provide customized solutions to the larger economy. Starting from 2017 to '19, we only had Aadhaar enabled payment and utility bill payment. Slowly, we have increased the product offering. And right now, even through a mobile part, if somebody has got a card-related transaction, our merchants are able to do that. And we have also started attracting deposits through this. And this will be one of the key pillars for our liability franchise going forward. Now we have also worked with the merchants to improve our point of presence. When I say that we are presenting 80,000 merchants. One thing that I saw one year ago was that the branding was not all uniform. And unless we have a common branding, we can't take the business. So we work the way the design agencies and then found out an option of giving them a very simple, very scalable and sustainable cost-efficient branding. Now the new branding that we see, it costs INR 3,000. We do not invest on our own. We tell the business partner that you start doing this business. It increases footfall to you. And you also make money through APS fee. Over a period of time, you'll recover this with this promise alone, they invest at INR 3,000 and then they are able to recover the money. And as we speak, the branding exercise started about 2 months ago. Currently, we have covered about 6,000 stores. And before end of the year, 20,000 stores across the country will carry this uniform branding, where Indusind will be very, very clearly visible, and people can know that the shopkeeper is representing through BFIL, Indusind Bank, and they can safely do a transaction. So the journey from BMS 1.0 to 2.0 is basically to make our point of process. These 80,000 places which will keep increasing to be more visible and through which we can do our banking business. Now these are the 3 businesses I talked to you about. If I look at what actually has differentiated BFIL or earlier SKS with the rest of the industry and how -- is the risk culture that we have got. We were the first NBFC MFI at that time 10 years ago post AP crisis who started looking at enterprise risk management. And our enterprise risk management works on 3 areas: One, looking at the country, starting the country in terms of geographies where we will be there. We do not go into geographies, whether it is a state or a district or a village unless we have studied that. So we have a framework through which we identify the geographies in which would be present, and that framework gets revised, reviewed every year, and we are what caps that we do not, we will not be present howsoever lucrative market looks we will not be present more than x percent in a state. So that way, we have classified the country into 5 different zones in which we'll be operating in Zone A, where we will be present up to 15% to 16% of our business will be there. And in zones which are highly risky, we will not be doing more than 0.5% to 1%. So we have the classification of geographies as one of the first pillar. The second pillar is a normal credit evaluation norm. That's who you identify as a borrower, how do you lend and what is the amount that you lend repeatedly at any point in time. Third, which is the most important thing is that our continuous intervention. We look at on a daily basis, on a daily basis as to where there is some stress, where there has to be some amount of control, which branch is struggling, which zone is having an issue, where there is going to be some sort of a rain or this thing storm is going to come. We look at that and then we keep on calibrating some of the things like here don't increase the ticket sizes, don't offer certain products to these customers, do not give them more than INR 30,000 to the borrower, even though she's eligible for INR 100,000. So this constant attention to the risk in the portfolio is the one which has always helped us. And on the operational risk side, we are -- if there is one thing that keeps everyone in the team awake at every point in time is the exposure to operational risk because we are largely cash driven. Our collection comes cash, and we do not have a supervisory layer as a third and fourth eye behind every transaction. The transactions are booked by the customer -- by the loan officers on the field and our supervisor layer sitting slightly away from the geography. So we are very, very conscious about the operational risk. And as I told you that the entire -- if there is something that happens in the business in my Hyderabad office, which is very, very constant is the continuous churning of the number to look at the data because we have a customer base of 90 lakh customers, which keep increasing by about 10, 15 lakh every year and about 10, 15 lakh customers outright, so when you look at these customers and when they are coming from a large part of the country, you need to be completely analytical in terms of your listing. So data customer profiling is a very, very critical component of our risk management. And proof of that pudding is here. If you look at historically, whatever that has happened to the industry, our credit performance is always better than the industry, and we would like to maintain that. Only thing at times the gap between us and the industry is pretty large, which makes us happy at times, it is narrowing, but we would never like to lose that market position. And this market position has come because of the culture that we have got. Just to give a flavor, we are the only micro finance lender in the country who is meaningfully present in all the geographies where it is there. For example, in India, INR 2.7 trillion is the micro finance industry base. And in that, our market share is 11%. This business is large in about 10 states. We are meaningfully present in 9 of them. The only state where the market is big, where we are not fully present or deeply present is Tamil Nadu. No other NBFC or a bank or an SFB can say that they are present everywhere. They're all concentrated in certain pockets. This also adds to our strength. In terms of our lending practices, this is another stratification of how do we look at the industry and how do we look at where our credit origination and our credit skills come. We do not want to over leverage the market. Even though there are enough number of lenders available, many lenders come and go, we have our own standards. Now if you look at -- I've just classified the entire country into 3 parts where the loan ticket sizes are pretty low. There are some states which are there. There are some states where the loan ticket sizes between 40,000 and 45,000, and there are some states where the ticket sizes are more than 45,000. If you look at in any of this stratification, our ticket sizes, our loan size is lower than the industry. And even though we are a market leader, even though we have got a very large process because this industry works on a repeat loan. The customer is given a loan after 20 weeks to 25 weeks, even though the first loan is still in currency, she may need another loan of INR 10,000, 12,000, 15,000 so we are there to provide loan to her, provided she's able to manage that. This leadership in terms of managing the risk is what is helping us in terms of better credit quality. The next is technology. I used to look at [indiscernible] and then look at how do you treat your, what to say, best customer. There will be a relationship manager, there will be a doorstop banking and that entire client servicing will be digital. When I look at, we offer to every single customer of ours, all of them, every single customer of Bharat Financial has a relationship manager, whether it's a Sangam manager or the loan officer or a Bharat Money Store officer, has got a relationship manager. And all the products are offered at their doorsteps. We do not ask them to come to the branch. We go and then deliver the loan, we go and collect them from there. And the transaction is completely digital. So this is, again, another great differentiating factor, and that is because of the technology platform. If you look at -- in any of the journey, it's completely digital. As I told you that we do not collect any paper. I do not have any document storage costs. My only storage costs are on the cloud where I need to keep the documents and data. There is no storage of paper document. Sumant was telling in the morning about employer of choice, BFIL and as well SKS has been participating in the employer of choice from for the past 9 years. The first year, we were just outside 100. And from that time onwards, till now, till 2021, we were always in the top 100. In fact, for 6 years, we were in the top 50, last year because of some perception, we slipped we are about 80 or 82. But BFIL has been an employer of choice -- for the past 8 out of 9 years that we have participated, we would like to maintain that. When it comes to people, as I told you that the strength of the organization, the people, in BFIL, hiring is taking place only at 1 level. I hire a loan officer, a Sangam manager. And thereafter, the journey from a loan officer to a branch credit manager, branch manager, unit manager, divisional manager, general manager, these entire 5 layers are internal, have what this business of member services is managed by 75 regions. 68 of them have joined the business as loan officer. We do not hire anyone laterally. My employees are very, very confident that they come -- they spend their time diligently. They grow the organization, they can grow in the rank. So this is one of the greatest success. If at all there is something which gives stability to our business, it is our people's strength that I can proudly say that you walk to any branch, any part of the business, you will find that every layer of people having a very, very high tenure. The average Sangam manager tenure is 3.5 years. Average branch manager tenure with BFIL, is 12 years. The average branch manager -- the average general manager tenure is 15 to 16 years. So the ability to retain people is a great strength for BFIL. The other thing is the investment that continuously we make in training people. Our business works only in training people, mind you, the loan officers who joined them, they are not even college graduates. They are all typically class 12 passed candidates. To them, we give them training and we make them a responsible member of the society, a responsible loan officer and each of them on an average manager portfolio of about INR 1.7 crores loan book. The other pillar is our constant monitoring through internal audit and it's all known to us. I would like to just skip this. The other thing in terms of technology is that we have a very, very effective customer outreach program. While I have got a large number of field force, which talk to the customer since I do not have a supervisory layer locally, we give a toll-free number, any customer who has got an issue they have to talk to, they can simply lift the phone and then talk to us and then we listen to their voice. And here also, technology is playing a part that when the customer calls, the call directly lines into a call center for an appropriate language. We operate in all parts of the country. I've got a call center sitting in Hyderabad, which operates 8 languages, so the customer calls, automatically, my technology will determine that this customer is speaking Odia, so it will go to a desk where, which is manned by Odia speaking person. And this actually is a great this thing. Every customer, when I talk to a customer and say that if you've got a problem, what do you do, she would probably say that I have the number in this loan card. I will talk. What are the time it takes for you to reach, as soon as the ring picks up within 2, 3 rings, somebody answers. Do they answer in your language? Yes. So these are all some of the things that I thought that I'll share with you because I do not have a great strategy to say that, look, we will do this, that and all. The only strategy that we have got is that how NBFC MFI lender, which was acquired by Indusind Bank in 2019 will shape its future. The last 2, 3 years have been impacted by COVID. So we could not do much in terms of the growth journey. Now that we are off COVID and we have got technology behind us. There's a huge customer base and the entire Bharat managed by us, where will this business and this customer base go to. Our ambition is to make every single loan officer or a Sangam manager who have got from a micro lender to a micro banker. There will be a bouquet of products. There will be a bouquet of services and we will be offering 2 eligible customers, individual loans. We will be providing scooter loans. We have been providing scooter loans on a sort of pilot basis, we will increase that. We also will go to rural India and then give them affordable housing and the lab. It won't be the ticket size up 10, 12 lakh what Sriram was saying. It maybe much smaller. So from a micro lender to the micro banker journey, is what is giving us an excitement. And that is the journey that we will see in the next 3 years. In terms of what the contours will be, what targets will be, we are planning 3 years -- 3 years of planning cycle. Our planning cycle 6 is about to be finalized in the next couple of months. At that time, certainly, I'm sure that Sumant will permit us to come with a sort of a more articulated strategy with the targets. The strategies in our mind, we know exactly what products we need to offer to the investor community, to the analyst community, we will bring up our plan and then showcase it to you. So this is what I have got in terms of my slide. The only thing that in our company, we feel is that what describes every single loan officer who starts his work at 6:30 in the morning is that customer centricity or any of them, it doesn't give them any sort of meaning. They simply say that [Foreign Language]. So for us, once a strategy is decided and the plan of action is there, we will just go and execute. Any target is possible. Open for any questions, please?

Sir, you briefly spoke about 3 lending. One is the micro finance, one is the Bharat Super Shop...

And the third is a Bharat Money Store.

Bharat Money. Can you divide the lending among these 3?

Yes. See, the member services business is 29,500. And Bharat Super Shop is INR 2,600, INR 2,700. Bharat Money store is not typically a lending arm. It is basically a liability service point. It has a very small loan book of around INR 70-odd crores. So my [indiscernible] crores is predominantly between the micro lending business, JLG business and Bharat Super Shop. Today, it's about 94% is in the JLG business, and 6% is in the, what to say, Bharat Super Shop. We will end the year with 90 and 10, as we go forward in the next 3 years, as Sumant told that, my JLG business will not be more than 60% of the overall bouquet of products that we have got. Rest 40% will come from other businesses, whether it is the merchant acquiring business, Bharat Super Shop or the new vertical that will be launching in terms of a 2-wheeler and secured lending or loan to individual clients.

Sir, your Bharat Shop, are you -- is it collateral-based lending or...

See, it is a purely a liability service point. If in the rural somebody wants to remit money of some INR 1,000. He or she does not have a mobile app to do that. She has to go to the bank and do that, right? Instant she can come to our merchant, based on Aadhaar enabled, because all their accounts, wherever it is connected to Aadhaar, she can give her fingerprint. The system will identify where she has got the account. She can enter the amount, what she wants to transfer, to whom she wants to transfer, the money gets transferred electronically. Like that, we provide anything which is Aadhaar enabled ora mobile passed based in terms of transaction we provide.

What is the revenue, sir? Revenue here?

The revenue for them is the commission. APS transaction comes with the fee for the merchant. We earn a fee, we part -- part of the fee to them. So that's how their revenue come.

What is our total revenue out of this?

See, this is not a very revenue spinning game as of now. It's a pretty small business. It gives us INR 600 crores of liability for us and the future liability business will come. See today, it's -- as of now in the last 5 years, we have been running this more on a pilot basis. Now we will be monetizing this. Now we will give targets to people to acquire because anyone who wants to open a savings account or a fixed deposit account or an RD account using Aadhaar enabled can simply go and then open there. The Uttarakhand model is that. In Uttarakhand, we are not going to open bank branches there. The 600 villages, which are the new panchayats. Any person who wants to open an account where the MGNREGA payment will come or the subsidy can come, he or she can just go to any of these VLE, Village Level Entrepreneur open her account. Money will come to her. She can transfer, she can receive. So this is a liability servicing point, transaction service point.

This is very -- a lot of Fintech is trying, Niyogin and other people are trying similar stuff.

See, Fintechs are -- the whole thing is technology-based. Somebody has to go and acquire them, right?

And sir, you have 2,600 lending Bharat Shop, my question was, do you do collateral-based lending or it is...

This is unsecured.

Unsecured.

This is unsecured, but we take a credit guarantee beyond this thing, where there is a risk involved we take a credit guarantee. But as of now, this is collateral free. This is unsecured. But we are also going to increase the ticket sizes which will come with the collateral. Currently, the ticket size with average lending is out INR 64,000. But we do have products which will give an average loan of about INR 2 lakh to INR 4 lakh. When we go there, that will be collateralized.

On the individual loans, so when you're graduating , it's good to hear that you don't have JLG's saturating in and trying to push it beyond a point is risky. But the individual loans, when you're graduating JLG customers to individual loans, that's a relatively untested model. You're losing some of the risk guardrails that a JLG give you and you're giving larger loans. So just if you could give us some perspective of what additional risk protection you're taking when you roll this out? I know credit bureaus exist. I know that you had a long risk history with these customers, and that will give you some comfort. But you're giving much larger ticket sizes. One of your peer banks is trying to do that, and that's -- they are suffering fairly large credit losses in that space. Also, Sumant was alluding to trying to make the business more predictable and cycle free. As you get into individual unsecured loans at what are still essentially bottom of the pyramid customers, the business will also become more cyclical, right? You will get hit by NPL. You've done a great job in protecting yourself from NPL cycles. That will become more difficult. If you could give us some perspective of when you get into this individual loan business for graduating JLG customers, how do you plan to protect yourself from risk troughs and NPL spikes in the future?

See, first, identification of the borrower, you look at who is your eligible borrower. And second is what are the exposures that you will take. And once you crack these 2 things, you are there. That whatever is a normal loss that any lending business will take you need to suffer. It is not that INR 100 that you lend, INR 100 will come back. And every single customer will repay, there will be some amount of credit losses. So currently, we are looking at both these points very, very critically. And that is one reason why we have not rushed to launching it. Even when we launch it, we will launch it in smaller basis. For example, today, I've got my customers, 22% of my customers have been with me for the past 6 years, taking loans repeatedly. And now out of this customer, if somebody wants...

Able to understand and balance the ability and the intent equation. If you have paid me 5 loans, doesn't create an ability to pay. It may have an intent to pay. Ability and intent has to be managed. And that score card, I don't see anywhere in the industry. And I am of that view, then even if you launch it, I think we have to be very conservative in launching it. We have to see what are the pitfalls and what is the scorecard which you release and what are the surrogates you will use to launch. The household income in India, in the rural sector has not grown that much. So how is it that you're leveraging in at that level. And I think these are debatable points. That's why we've not launched it. I think we've not been able to come to a scorecard. We've not been able to back test the scorecard, which works on this crisis. Until we are able to do that, I don't see you will see us in this segment in a very big way.

That was exactly my question.

We are not rushing there. Any other questions, please? Yes.

My name is Sanjeev Anand. I've been with the bank since 2008. And this will be a corporate and commercial banking presentation. So just in terms of the operating environment in the last year or so and how we have responded. So lending rates, you can see that last quarter, we increased our lending rates by 40 bps. This quarter also, there will be a further increase. So increase in lending rates are being passed on. In terms of growth, our small businesses have grown by 47%, 46% and the overall corporate book has grown by 23%. I think this is an important thing in terms of the increase in upgrade ratios. That for us last quarter was 2.5%. That means we have had 2.5 upgrades for every one downgrade compared to 4 quarters back when it was around 2%. So this shows the portfolio quality for sales improved. I think the rest, you can -- this thing on the real estate thing, I think one of the important things is we have in March '20, we had our overall portfolio on the developer financing of around INR 14,000 crores. Today, as we speak, we are at the same INR 14,000 crores, and there has been a 75% to 80% churn. And the portfolio has really stood up for us in the sense that we have been able to sell the portfolio, take additional exposure, churn it and stuff like that, and it's part of our verticalization strategy because lot of people have questions on the performance of the real estate portfolio, which has done very well for us. The Russia-Ukraine conflict, so we are aware that there were certain players who could have been affected by commodity prices and stuff like that. So business and credit regularly, every month we kind of sit down. We see what is happening. And frankly, there are no real surprises out there. Everything seems to be under control. Okay. So I'll just in fact, rush through certain slides and stick to the more important ones. This is basically a slide to show that we have a very experienced leadership team out here. Most of them have been with the bank for a long time. There's one new joining Niraj Shah, who's -- he's also now been with us for 13, 14 months now to look after our -- what we call the strategic land group. So more about that later as to why we created that particular segment. Okay. What do we do in Commercial and Corporate Banking. Briefly, we have around 5,000 asset clients. I have another 3,000 liability clients. These are pure liability clients, which could be group companies other promoter companies, et cetera. In fact, the 3,000 liability clients give me 25% of the liability, which my corporate banking book generates. So it's an important source of liabilities for us. In the corporate banking, any company which is over INR 150 crores in turnover is covered by the corporate banking group. We obviously have different coverage models. So more about that later in terms of how we cover various segments. And we offer pretty much everything. From a corporate banking perspective, I would say we are a universal bank. So right from working capital, term loans, CapEx, project finance, trade FX, you name it. I think the thing which is missing, which is being also we are building up is the investment banking team, but this is not the investment banking, which we used to do earlier. This is pure play investment banking more about advisory and stuff like that because we have a strong mid-market portfolio, and we believe that it's out there, we can offer a lot of this thing, but that team is being built up. This is just to show how we are diversified. So you can see between large mid and corporates. This is, I mean, this is as a percentage of my corporate banking book. The small corporates, which is at 8.7%, 2 years back was at 4%. So this is a business which we would like to grow. By region, we are diversified, by ticket size, we are pretty well diversified. You can see there's a 14% ticket size exposure, which is greater than INR 1,000 crores, but those are all AA and above kind of this thing. So I mean, in terms of diversification, we are there. I think the important takeaway out here is that the small corporates part of it is something which we'll be growing, and I'll talk about that a little more. Now corporate banking is basically about 4 things. How do you reach the existing? One is, what is the coverage model? How do you cover the corporates, like I said, from INR 150 crores onwards? What are the products I offer? The risk management, obviously, that's a very important part of it. And lastly, the digitization and analytics to help not only the relationship bankers, but also from a client delivery perspective. So I'll just talk about each one of them now in terms of what we are doing there. So this is the coverage model. I would say we have a unique thing in terms of compared to other. On the right-hand side, you can see we have specialized coverage units. I don't look after Gems and Jewelry, but we show it under corporate banking that Biju looks after, and that's one of our domain and Biju will talk about that later. But the idea is that these are the various coverage, specialized coverage units, which we have, and they have really -- the fact that we have a specialized vertical has really stood the test of time. So whether it is real estate, whether it is financial institutions and education for that matter, and we are aware during COVID, I mean schools, colleges, everything was closed. But it is a test to our portfolio that none of them kind of had a problem. Yes, during COVID, they were a little bit of an overdue and stuff like that, but it showed that our selection was right. The pedigree was right and today, everything has come back to normal. So I think again, the takeaway here is that verticalization for us has worked very well. We will continue with this. There are certain subscale businesses, which we will scale up further so like between agri, education and health care, it's a INR 10,000, INR 10,500 crores portfolio, you will see the agri part and the part increasing education and health care, we'll be a little cautious in the sense we don't want this thing, but it will be an active portfolio churning kind of this thing. On the client coverage side, we have 4 units. So we have the emerging mid corporates. This is a new business unit we had created targeting a segment between INR 150 crores to INR 500 crores. Then I'll go to the third one, which is the Global Corporate & Institutional Group. This is for what Niraj Shah, the guy, whom I said, who had been hired a year back. Here, what we have done is we have identified a list of around 140, 150 groups pan-India, MNCs and large diversified groups. And the job is there to penetrate deep into them, more about that a little later. Anything which is beyond INR 500 crores and doesn't belong to the corporates and institution comes under the Corporate Banking group. And PSUs obviously is the same. Okay. So that was the coverage part. So I said like there are 4 things. There's the coverage, there's product, there's digitization and there's risk. So I think this is a very important slide. I think products, the transaction banking and the global markets and the cash management products are, I think, core to our cross-sell. And I think, I would believe that we have built some very unique product capabilities out here, which is pretty obvious. You can see, for example, our product penetration is 76%. That means 76% of my clients have at least one product which has been penetrated and this is something obviously will keep improving. Where we have one penetration of product, we want to make it 2, 3, and then there's obviously 24% of clients who don't have any product this thing. So this is an ongoing thing, but something which we are proud of. What the product groups have done, and there'll be a presentation on that is it has changed the profile of our fee income. So today, around 57% to 60% of my fees comes from TFX and this thing, which a year back or 1.5 years back was around 40%, 45%. So this is something which gives me the granularity and this thing. So that -- so in products, I've got 2 slides. So first was the slide more about the annuity part of it, which is the trade FX and stuff like that. Here are 2 products, again, which I think we are extremely proud of. And again, it's part of -- it's very unique to us in the sense that -- and they both go hand-in-hand. So debt capital markets because this allows us to -- and we are #2 out here, if you see in terms of syndication, this thing. This allows us to take up exposures, whether it is real estate and whether -- I talked about the fact in real estate, we are churning the book. It is because we have a very active debt capital market team. And similarly, we have project finance. Now project finance, we do very selectively. Broadly, it is in HAM, it is in renewables and it's in transmission. Bulk of it is there. Look at the right-hand side, it shows you the kind of churn which has happened. I think that is what allows us to do project finance and the churn happens because of our debt capital market this thing. So again, this is a -- these are 2 products which we are -- again, I'm very proud of. We will do it cautiously in sectors we understand, but it really helps us. So in fact, we were the first bank to do the HAM project in India. In Renewables, we are very big. Renewables, we do project financing, but we get a lot of other stuff also out there. So I've covered coverage. I've covered product. Now this is on the digital side. Now when I use the word digital or analytics or whatever, so we see it into 3 parts. One is how is it enabling my RM. So from an RM perspective, we have a Power BI, which is there, which an RM can see, which client is doing what? How much has the client utilized, how much is funded, non-funded, what is the return on assets, the [indiscernible] and stuff like that. That's one part of it. Second part of it is, along with the Decision Science unit, you also get a lot of information on my wallet penetration. So they keep giving inputs because they take external and internal data. So they'll take data from Craylake -- from what do you say, balance sheets from Exim port data to see what is the export-imports happening and they keep giving inputs to the RM that maybe influence of plan, you're missing out on this wallet this thing. And thirdly, they also curate new leads for us. So from an RM perspective, it's very useful. And this is all something which has happened in the past 1, 1.5 years. Second is the early warning system, which has again this thing. We have some 200-odd triggers out here, both internal and external. So an internal trigger could be, for example, an LTE has devolved, there's an overdue somewhere. There's a sudden utilization in the client this thing, a bank guarantee has kind of been invoked. External trigger could be that the company's share price has only moved up, management has left, a PF payment has been missed, a GST payment has not been made. So like this, there are 200 triggers and then we have a rule engine around it and stuff like that. And the trigger goes to the relationship manager that this has happened. There's a whole process around it, which forces the RM to get back to credit. That's fine. Is it good, bad, what has happened and stuff like that. So this is a very important tool and has really helped us a lot in early identification of this thing. And then is the customer, now from the customer side, it is again about our product. So we have digital platforms, and I think product will be covering it, whether it is trade and FX, our supply chain finance thing in the first slide, I've shown that 85% of my ecosystem financing is done digitally. So stuff like that. And lastly, was the risk. So risk, now there are 3 parts to it. Number one, the first gatekeeper of risk is obviously the relationship manager or the coverage this thing. After that, then we have various committees, depending on the rating, depending on the size of the exposure and stuff like that, there's no individual authority. Everything is through a committee. And I think one more thing which we have, which is very important, what we call the CQ LAR, which is it's actually a post-sanction, post disbursement audit process. So it's not that once the disbursement has happened, and then we kind of just wait and the RM -- so the RM anyway has to do his job. He's -- because he is the person in contact with the client, but there's an independent audit function reporting to audit, which their job is that on a regular basis, they go and meet the clients, the new clients which have been onboarded. They see that all the assumptions which were made when we sanctioned the proposal, they validate the assumptions, they see whatever it is, give their remarks that is jointly discussed between business and credit. Sometimes they ask us to exit, sometimes they -- so what I'm saying is it's a very dynamic kind of a thing, again, from an early warning kind of this thing. Sumant I think or somebody talked about ESG. All of we have -- for high-risk industries, we have a proper ESG kind of a thing built in. I think we are cognizant of the fact that there could be reputational and credit risk. We have a proper process. There's an ESG committee which sanctions all the proposals. And it's a very diligent kind of this thing. And lastly, I think what is important to see on the coverage side, I told you we have various industries and stuff like that, but that doesn't make sense if the risk side doesn't mirror it. So on the risk side also, we have people, the organization structure out there mirrors the coverage structure. So it becomes easy for the understanding and for the expertise to be built into the organization. So I think this all of you know, but just for the sake of this thing, so from 2008, '09, we had a pretty good run, and then there was this blip in those 2 years. There were those 7, 8 accounts, which kind of put us back. So I think the important thing was, so what did we learn out of that and what have we implemented and where are we now after doing that, I think that was more important. So what were the learnings? I mean, if you look at it, and the learnings were both from a risk side and even from a business side. Broadly, I would say, from a risk side, definitely, there was customer concentration. Few customers too much of concentration. Reliance on bulky fees and somewhere down, you will see that my investment banking fees, which was more of debt and all that stuff was very high. That has not totally come down. Holding company financing. We were -- we had a few cases where we did financing at the holding company level without any cash flows. And lastly, delayed identification of risk triggers. So these were 4 learnings from a risk side. From a business side, I would say we realized number 1 was -- and that comes in from the customer concentration in the large strategic groups or the large industrial houses. Like I said, we have said that there are 140, 150 of them. We were present in just around 10% of them. So there was this huge thing which we ever missing out for whatever reason. And that's how we have got this new person Niraj whose job is to kind of diversify create this thing. I'll talk about that. Secondly, we were also missing out on a segment which is -- it's a very niche kind of a segment, INR 150 crores to INR 500 crores kind of a business, what I refer to as the emerging corporates or the SME business. That is something we started. And lastly, very importantly, I think the -- it was not in the DNA of an RM to ask for liabilities from the corporate client. It was just [Foreign Language] kind of stuff. It has now become a DNA along with the product groups with transaction banking and all that, doing cash management stuff, I would say that depending on this thing pretty much 50% to 55% to 60% of my asset book is self-funded because it just required a change in the mindset. So those were 3 kind of learnings from a business side. So what did we do? So I said on the risk side, I talked about those 4 learnings. So what have we done is pretty obvious. One is we tightened our policy norms, this thing, which is very important. I think what is important is the single borrower norm, which were earlier linked to the net worth of the bank, we have changed it to the net profit of the bank. That's number one. Number two is RBI allows you a certain single borrower exposure, this is your net worth or whatever it is. Except 2 groups, I mean, it's obvious, which are those 2 groups, 2 very good groups and no other groups, are we anywhere near a single borrower exposure. So that we have -- so the idea I'm trying to say is we are very conservative out there now. Conservative capping of sensitive sectors, and sensitive sectors are sectors which are more prone to asset volatility, asset price volatility, stuff like commodities, stuff like real estate, that kind of stuff. So we have, again, put in very tight norms out there. And lastly, I think what is important is 2 more things. The early warning signal, which I talked about already. This is something new, those 200 risk this thing and that also we keep building on. When we started it a year back, it was 130 items. Today it has gone up to 200 this thing. And we strengthened the CQ LAR. It was not that the CQ LAR was not there earlier. But when I say strengthen, what I mean is the frequency of business is more, more and more clients are being covered. So it's an ongoing BAU process. It's a separate parallel thing which keeps happening. So this was on the risk side. What did we do on the business side? Broadly, I mean, what am I trying to say here? We are -- like I said, on the smaller business side, we didn't have scale. That time, we were at -- in 2020, we were 4% of this thing. So the coverage model has been put up in such a place that we want to scale up our smaller businesses. So today, we are at 8.7% of my corporate book, which I'll take it up to 16% in the next 2.5, 3 years. We want to have a sharper focus on the large corporate groups. And so it's not something there we will grow it random because there -- the pricing and all that is very different. But when I say sharper focus, it will be rota-driven, it will be risk density driven and stuff like that. We will continue on a specialized coverage, which is because they have really stood -- they have served us well. They give us good [indiscernible] whether it is real estate, whether it is NBFCs, whether it is agri, whatever it is, but that we will do through an active churn strategy. So there will be a portfolio, kind of a portfolio this thing around it, but with an active churn strategy. And obviously supported by product units. So what we have also done is for each coverage. We have -- because, for example, a small corporate requires a very different FX kind of product compared to, say, a large guy. So now you have the product groups also are separate for each coverage unit. So that kind of helps us this thing. So that's what we did on the business side. So what has happened? We did this, we did on the risk side. We did on the business side. Just a few this thing. This is about the rating, how our ratings have improved. I think what is -- essentially, what we have said is that -- in the last 18 months, 80% of our disbursements have been AA and above. So what had translates into that, in March '20, 63% of my corporate book was A-rated and above, today it's 73%, 74% this thing. And I think the bottom slide is important. If you see the gray this thing, the correlation between rating and ticket size somewhere got convoluted if you see in March '20 because you see that thing going up out there. That has been corrected now. So there's a clear correlation between rating and ticket size. And that's why if you see out there that for ticket size is greater than INR 100 crores, now 80% of my portfolio is A-rated. So all those things which we have done on the risk and the business side and policies, programs in place, this is what it has kind of resulted in as far as ratings is concerned. On the granularity side, what has it done on the granularity side? Look at the fee composition, in financial year '20 or the Q4 of financial year '20, our investment banking fees was 30%. Q2, it is just 3%. I mean 3% may have been small. I think we will be between 5% to 7%. But right now, the only investment banking fee is the syndication fee. So what we syndicate out. Now once we do advisory and all that kind of stuff, then this will go up, but that will be pure play equity investment banking kind of stuff. But see how the fee profile has changed. Working capital book, if you see the base it has gone up by 40% in the last 2.5 years and similarly on the tenure, this thing. So it shows our strategy has been successful, and this is something we'll keep building on. Credit cost. Now I think all -- you have seen this. If you see, anything you see in terms of our SMA book, SMA book, 1 and 2 today is we are at one of the lowest levels. Our corporate restructuring book, except one big case, which is a retail case which went into NPA. Otherwise, our corporate restructured book has fallen from some INR 2,700 crores to INR 470 crores. I expect another INR 120 crores, to go away this quarter or next quarter. So that restructured book is under control. SMA book is under control. The backer of the book, which is the weighted average credit, whatever it is, it's A-rated. So our portfolio is A-rated because of this thing. So essentially, what I'm trying to say is, I don't think there are any more surprises. Credit costs, I expect between 50 to 55 basis points now on going forward. So I have 2 more slides. I've talked about this. So essentially, what are we going to do. Let me just go to the next one that will show my small businesses, I will grow by 35%, 35% to 40% year-on-year. Where I said that we were at 4% in 2020, we are at 8.7% today. We will take this up to 16%. The client coverage group, which is the corporate banking and the GCIB, the largest thing will grow between 15% to 20%. The specialized verticals will grow between 10% to 15%, like I mentioned to you, we will continue growing because it gives us this thing due to which this is how the mix will change. So you'll see large corporates, which today is at around 57% will come down to 46%, mid-corporates will go up a bit from 33% to 38%. Small corporates will double in terms of this thing. So that is how the mix is going to change in there. Yes, that's pretty much it from my side. Are there any questions?

So just on the granularity part where you mentioned and shown that loan book about INR 1,000 crores is closer to 11%, 12% of the book. Just given the growth in this -- just trying to understand, we have reduced the lumpiness on the corporate book side, but is there any threshold in terms of, I mean, number in terms of that we don't want to do any business beyond a certain single concentration. So INR 1,000 crores would remain 10% to 12%, is that number? Or is it linked to a network because the growth...

No, this INR 1,000 crores is, like I said, it is -- if you saw they were ratings all AA and above. So -- and bulk of them are PSUs. So that's what it is. And it's not that we want to grow it or something like that. I mean we have, obviously, certain things in mind because when I do a -- if I'm doing INR 1,000 crores lending somewhere. Obviously, I'm getting a lot of other stuff from them, whether it is cash or liabilities or trade or stuff like that. But from a risk side, from a credit side, and that's what the chart which I showed you, there's a clear linkage now between the ticket size and the rating, which earlier was not there. So -- and to answer your specific question on INR 1,000 crores, they are all AA and above rated, so it's trending towards AA and AAA kind of asset book.

So the question is, is there any number in mind in terms of that to reduce lumpiness on the loan book, we don't want to do any single exposure, a certain number? Or is it linked to...

So like I said, for borrowers, except 2 groups where we are doing what -- one is the RBI gives you a certain amount where you can take a certain client exposure and a group exposure. Today, except 2 groups, I can talk about them the Tatas and the Reliance. There's no other group where I'm anywhere near what RBI allows me to do because I'm linking it to my net profits and obviously, I'm seeing who are those groups, what are the individual businesses. So I mean, it's a very individual kind of -- I can't answer your question what would be the amount I take. But what I'm saying is we are very, very conservative now compared to what it was 2, 3 years back. So even if you see our top 20 borrowers and stuff like that, the rating profile is extremely good, lot of it has fallen off. The exposures have come down. So it's a proper -- there's a dynamic portfolio management out there.

Many in the analyst community are talking about the resurgence in the CapEx cycle for India. Are you not seeing any green shoots in terms of large CapEx projects because bulk of the growth that you're talking about is largely coming from small business groups, which may be working capital finance is what I'm understanding.

Okay. So I'll answer it in 2 ways. Number one, the fact that we want to grow small business is a deliberate strategy because it gives us my granularity, it gives you my margins. And plus, I think today, we are at just at 8% and something I believe that we should be at 20%, 25%. So it has nothing to do with the fact whether CapEx is there or not there. That's number one. Number 2 is CapEx happening. I would say till 3, 4 months back, people were talking about CapEx happening, but only certain large groups talking about CapEx. Now more and more mid-market clients also are talking about CapEx. So whether it's due to the PLI schemes infrastructure, auto, energy, I mean you name it a wide variety of industries. Most of them are also -- they had built into the -- because there is a demand happening out there. Even logistics, for example, they had built the fact -- they have taken an assumption that interest rates would rise. So interest rates rising have not really affected the CapEx plan because that assumption was there. I think people knew that. Yes, the interest. The ForEx movement has dampened it a little bit, but the CapEx plans per se are intact. I'm not saying they're not going to do CapEx, and that's why we will do project financing. We will do CapEx, but obviously, we do it very selectively. Focus obviously is on building the working capital book. So I mean, in terms of is the business there, it is there. We will choose what makes sense for us. We will do that. But small businesses, definitely, we want to grow. Okay. Then I guess there are no more questions. There's one out there.

Sir, is there a reason to believe that the new book that we are building would obviously because of the high...

Sorry, I couldn't hear you.

Sir, is there a reason to believe now that with the share of mid-corporate and the share of small corporate going up, the profitability of this piece would be substantially higher than what we used to.

No, 100%. I mean one is definitely mid-corporates and small corporates give you higher margins. You can demand more in terms of cross-sell. So 100%, it will profit. But we will balance it with large corporates because there's -- at the end, it's a portfolio, I got to see my risk density. I got to see my return on this thing. But yes, I expect my margins to go up out there. And at the same time, like I said, my credit costs now are back to BAU levels, no more skeletons or something like that in the cover. So definitely, in one short, yes, the corporate banking profitability will go up.

And if I heard it correctly, you said 55 to 60 basis points credit cost?

Yes, credit cost, 55 to 60 basis points.

And that you said for?

For the corporate banking book.

Was that more on a sustainable basis or what?

Yes, on a sustainable basis.

Just to continue her question. Can you, given the corporates, how many end-to-end value chains you have captured? Means, their employee base, their vendors, their salaried accounts. How that transition is taking place because that was one of the bigger learnings?

Yes. So okay -- so let me start with the employee accounts. We started this process a year back. Today, if you ask me, in terms of number of corporates, I don't remember offhand, but I have around INR 1,900 crores to INR 2,000 crores of savings accounts from my corporate -- this thing -- whether it is the owners, promoters or whether it is their employees. That's one part of it. And this is something we'll grow. In fact, corporate and consumer, we have -- so Soum has created a separate segment specifically to target the corporate segment from a salary account basis. So that is something, you are right, today, it's at around INR 2,000 crores, but definitely, it will go up. Other thing which we do very well is the ecosystem financing, which is on the supply chain side, where we finance dealers and vendors or large corporates. Today, I would say around 45% is in the auto side and 55% in the non-auto side, both from a dealer and vendor -- this thing. Again, my book today is -- out there around INR 4,500 crores to INR 5,000 crores. This is a book we will double easily INR 10,000 crores, INR 11,000 crores. And the good thing is -- see, one of the good things about COVID is all these portfolios were tested. And again, on the supply chain ecosystem finance side, our credit costs have hardly been 10, 15 basis points, not more. And that also because 1 or 2 dealers got shut during COVID and stuff like -- but I think so this is a business we will grow. And this is a business, which allows us to break into large corporates. So I talked about the fact that we were not present -- we identified some 140, 150-odd names, but we are present in only 10 or 12 names. Today, 9 months down the line, we have established contact with 70 of those people, and these are big corporates pan-India. We have established contact. 35 of them, we have created some kind of a business, it could be a liability business, it could be an ecosystem financing, financing the dealers and stuff like that. So you will see a lot of value happening out there.

Just may I ask one more question. What kind of platforms also you are developing? Like just to name for the peer like ICICI is doing like a FASTag or the [ ICICI ] Stack. What kind of different segmentations of the client coverage units you are building different apps or the platform so that it smoothens the entire journey experience or it would be a common universal for all?

No. So like I said, on the supply chain finance side, we have built an app. It's called EasyCredit or this thing. And where -- I don't know if you missed that, 85 -- so it is 85% vendors and dealers are on that platform. So what it essentially does very simplistically, when a manufacturer when my main client, say, Tatas of world dispatches a good to a dealer? Right from the fact that he has dispatched to my financing the dealer, and the dealer selling the good and me getting the money, it's all digital now. This happened around 5, 6 months back, and 85% of that is already there. I mean the number of transactions, every quarter, we do transactions worth INR 32,000 crores. That gives you an idea of the churn, which is happening there. Regarding other products, which is FX and trade and cash management, I think the product groups will talk about it, but those are also -- they are -- we have digital platforms. So therefore, if a client wants to open a letter of credit or wants to do a remittance or something like that, they digitally reach out to the bank. Whatever -- there are certain things which are not digitally allowed, those obviously are not done, but -- so that's what it is. And then we have, for the SME stack, which I think Charu will talk about it, that is something which we are building, and you'll see a lot of stuff happening out there. Okay, thank you.

Hi, I'm Biju, Biju Pattanayak. I have been working in the bank from 2015 when the bank took over maybe a number of portfolio. But I've been in this business for more than 25 years, in different classes, both in India and overseas, managing businesses. It's a little different. You have been so far hearing about domestic businesses where the clients are in India, the consumers are in India, starting from -- at the bottom of the pyramid to high net worth individual. We are probably a business where the market is the entire globe, and probably customers are mostly 50% of world's population, that's the women these spaces and also partly a little bit of men. So in the business and the scope is a little different than what is there in the other businesses. So we will see that. And the -- it's a luxury business. It's not probably value for money business. When we sell luxury, we always talk about something which is more a lifestyle, more of a dream than probably for some value for something that you people pay for it. So that's the business in which we are there. It's different. What's the macro development you are hearing since the entire world is our client, as we are seeing there is inflation. There is Chinese lockdown, Russia-Ukraine war slowdown and new asset quality. If you look at the inflation, yes, the Western world, where most of our diamonds have sold or jewelry is sold, and that's going through a recession. Having said that, I told you already that the entire world is our market. It does -- we know how to steer ourselves through different cycles. It has happened in the past. We have seen the Lehman fall. We have seen COVID time. And neither of the time we had any stress in our portfolio. Yes, it slows down for a few months. And having said that, the second quarter was probably the best quarter in our entire career. And the first half year of this year has been outstanding also for us, which is -- so that means we manage the cycles quite well, and there is no problem. China lockdown, yes, it impacts a segment of the goods, but then there are other markets. I told, the entire world is our market. So there are other markets who picks up those goods. China -- U.S. is still doing well. We have seen new markets are emerging, especially India, who is just moving from gold to diamond studded jewelry. Then Russia-Ukraine war, we are not so much in a commodity business because luxury is never a commodity. So rather that's helping us because the lesser supply of rough diamonds is bringing in some sort of equilibrium in the market. So we are using it to our advantage than having any disadvantage due to that. Asset quality. Like our MD has already said, and Sanjeev's proposal said, we have no SMA. We had no restructured date. We have no NPA. Not today, not even in the last 7 years that we have -- the portfolio is operating from IndusInd, nor any time when there were challenges. So these are -- and we are very confident that we will steer through all the situations without having any impact on our business. New asset quality will continue to run. We are monitoring. We are now having new clients. We have a GIFT City, where we are reaching out to the clients around the globe. We are also looking at financing the ultimate uses of these goods through the brands, like [indiscernible] Tiffany, Harry Winston and others who are buying the diamonds from India and selling there. Since we can now reach out to them through GIFT City, we are looking for those [ liaisons ] to expand business or if there is a little bit slowdown in the diamond trading business. That's our response to the macro development. This is our unit. I head the unit, and we have a business manager. We have a client affairs and relationship team, similarly like Sanjeev, and we have a credit structuring and portfolio management. That's all. We -- and that is a small team and we run this business. So what about us. We are the #1 player in the world. We have strong client relationship. What's the very key to our business is our relationship. We know probably everything about our client and what business it does, what's its capability is, how it can steer through a situation, whether it can change and adapt to changing circumstances. All these things are known to us that helps us. We are growing 20% CAGR. And our -- we use our both domestic clients and international clients through GIFT City, though we don't have overseas brands, but that has seem to affected us. We are reaching out to the clients in Dubai, Hong Kong, Antwerp, Luxembourg, U.S. and multiple centers through GIFT City. And also some clients -- and our clients in India who are exporting diamond and diamond studded jewelry to countries around the globe. We have pristine asset quality where I told you nothing is there. 23% of our clients are MSME, and [ they have ] 20% of our loan outstanding. So more or less, that's our business. So it's our client mix, 15% jewelry manufacturers/exporters, and 85% diamond. Onshore 63% and GIFT City, 22%. We are distributors and traders of rough diamonds. There are clients who are manufacturing diamonds and exporting the manufactured diamond and give it to jewelry manufacturing, and those jewelries are exported. So that's our business. We have also, through GIFT City, 2 clients. We recently -- you have heard of lab grown diamonds, this -- that also is a new line, which has been added to this business. We have no claim facilities. Our products are mostly trade. We only finance on underlying cash flow. And those underlying cash flow are having either 90 or 120 days tenure. And within that, these cash flows are realized, and that particular transaction is squared up. So it's not exactly a loan. It's a cash flow financing book. And at any time, we have more than 1,000 -- few thousand transactions, which are outstanding. And as per Indian regulation, any specific transaction, if it's not paid within its tenure, then it goes to SMA-1, 2 or NPA. In that context, we don't have any SMA-1, 2. That means all the cash flows we choose and have in our portfolio, all are probably pristine, like our MD has been assuring you all the time. So you see that as it is. What do we do differently? Many of you want to know, and sometimes you also asked me during our investor meets, et cetera. Our basic thing is client selection. We, as a business, generally have a prospect list. And we onboard a client who is in our prospect list. So client selection is essential key for our business. Then we have risk management. That's -- like Sanjeev said, it's also the second most important part after the businesses look at a proposal, then we track the entire mines-to-market, from where the rough diamonds are produced till where it goes to a consumer. The entire journey of the diamond and its cash flow is tracked by us, and that's why probably we have remained as we are so far. We act as gatekeepers. We never allow a transaction to be written in our book if the underlying cash flow is doubtful. So it's not only the portfolio, it is the underlying transaction that's there in our book. So we're reading tea leaves, people speak about, even India, there is a talk about all the time early warning signal. We know early warning signal is very late in our business because when you get a signal, that means something was existing in the client, which we did not see. So we do reading tea leaves, that is before anything crystallizes, we are already aware that something may evolve differently, leading to some sort of a stress in a client's portfolio. So we have taken corrective actions so that it never goes to that extent. Then compliance. We believe that compliance is very key. It's our right to exist depend on we, being compliant, with all the regulatory guidelines. All the bank's organizational and regulatory guidelines, not only in our country, but all the countries where we operate, where our clients are located. It seems we finance clients from GIFT City in different geographies around the globe. Mind on the Street. We are always keeping track on the -- what's the development happening in the market, what's happening to our clients. How are they doing every little bit of information is captured, like separation in a family or anything because mostly we finance family-run enterprises. Early strategizing. Like the inflation or the -- the Ukraine war, we -- that time, already, we are strategizing how we will deal with that. So that's why we charge a premium for our services. On an average, we charge 2% more than all the banks that operate from India. So people pay that premium because we have a differential value proposition and business model. So how do we do this? Because -- how do we do the transaction flow and monitoring? We have [ 6I ] principle. Our trade finance gets a transaction, the RM checks it, then we take it before it is written in our books. We have a global tracking of backward and forward linkages of the clients. We also do close proximity and relationship. That's what leads to our personal and commercial global connects with all the stakeholders, not only with our clients but our clients' suppliers, our clients' buyers, our clients' buyers' buyers some time because sometimes the Indian sell it to wholesalers in overseas market. We also track who the wholesaler he is ultimately selling. So we observe the professional and personal development of the borrower. What's happening with them, what's happening to their families. That's also tracked. That's how probably you have seen diamond industry. Quite often you must be hearing that there are a lot of bad guys, this, that. So people always get worried about diamond business. At one point, diamond industry told the government it's not that we are all bad, it's because the banks don't do a good job. So government of India had asked, IBA, for us to share the best practices with them. I had on the invitation of IBA had guided the 52 CROs operating from different banks in India about the best practices to be followed to monitor this business in this country. So that's our reputation in this market, and we have long-standing [ drawee ] experience. You know the business came from ABN AMRO and most of -- ABN AMRO has been in this business for a long time. So we have [ drawee ] experience probably from 1960. So that's also a big advantage for us. And we engage with all the global institutions who are our clients' clients, et cetera. So that helps us to know everything that's happening around the world any time. So the current risk factors are inflation, recession, unemployment, geopolitical tensions, you all hear about this. You must be having some questions since we are the #1 player and how are we dealing with this. Trend change, the millennials are preferring other things, there was pandemic, geological changes, there is earthquakes, cyclone, this, that. And this carbon vapor deposit lab grown diamond, conflict diamond, changes in government policies. All these situations that is there, you are hearing if sometimes the question is there in your mind, I want to tell you all these things that are already factored in by us. Nothing is there, which is not there in our thinking. And you know high-end luxury is inflation-neutral, we see that inflation is there. If somebody is buying a $200 ear stud or a $100 ear stud, probably they are affected if there is a job loss. But quite a large part of our business is inflation proof because somebody who is giving a $250,000 gift or a jewelry piece, that doesn't -- he's not impacted so much by there is some inflation in the food or in the other items. We have a very diversified portfolio. It is into of rough trading. It's into diamond manufacturing, jewelry export, so different aspects of the business we finance. International finance, that is [indiscernible] process, where we are also involved. And you know global incidents like pandemic, you saw last year, during the pandemic, we also grew 20%, and we had no stress at all in our portfolio. We offered RBI given, and that has some sort of an interest payment, deferral, et cetera, but our clients never took it because they have their adequate cash flows to meet their recurrent demand. So we are expanding the wallet. Our MD has mandated us to create a diamond bank, what he spoke and Soum spoke about the community banking. We are creating a community banking to capture the entire wallet of our client. Every time, at the time of annual renewal, we do a wallet sizing exercise. We look at a client's total wallet, not only of his, little bit like micro-finance of his entire family or the extended family. What are the different businesses they invest and we try to capture all those to our counters because we are a full service bank. As for the -- how our portfolio, I will not say it is completely insulated, that would be too much for me to probably commit, but I can tell you it's adequately mitigated and ring-fenced and hardly there is any possibility or a fear of we coming across many challenges in this portfolio. Because the -- we don't have any loan, which is [ clean], all are backed by current assets. We also take second way-out collateral by way of mortgages. We have all the personal guarantees of promoters, directors and the other companies in the group. So if in many ways, it has been collateralized. So that's the portfolio like. So what are we trying to do? We are trying. Yes, hush our growth in existing business. We will expand that. We are adding lab grown diamonds. We only take, like I told you, clients who are with acceptable risk profile. Generally, people like to bank with us, because it gives them some respectability in the market that we have accepted them as a client. So they provide us the information long before we onboard them. Accordingly, we put them into our prospect list, and take them on board. We are looking for [ Blue Ocean ] always, like I told, that we are looking to cross-sell banks, all products, services like their different businesses. We are looking at financing their clients' client, like the big brands who are using the diamonds from India because you know all the diamonds are manufactured here. Ultimately, they're used anywhere by the brands, et cetera. And brands, luxury is not affected by much. You all read probably yesterday that Tom Ford said his company will be $3 billion in 2025. Yesterday, he sold it for $2.8 billion already in 2022. So luxury business is always ahead. GIFT City, we are now -- this has helped us since we are a bank without much [ foreign ] print by way of branches, but this is helping. And it is good news for us and the [ presence ] to say we are growing to grow GIFT City 3x. So that will help us to reach more. Liabilities, from last year, we are looking to capture the entire liability wallet of our clients. And many of you know that most of our clients are extra high net worth individuals. So we would like to sell them, their family office as our private banking businesses expands and multiple products we can provide to them. We always look at sustainable growth. We don't do anything, which is not sustainable. It has to be sustainable. It has to be revenue- or the profit-accretive. We have very low efficiency -- maybe 11%, 12%, that's our efficiency ratio. We like to maintain that. We like to maintain very high efficiency in this business. That's what our way forward. That's what probably from me. If you have any question you can ask me anything.

Yes, sir?

[indiscernible] for your lender?

Yes. See, inventory India doesn't have any diamond mines. So the entire rough diamond is really imported. So fast, since it's an imported out input, so you know the invoices where they are buying. Yes, there is a specter of fear of people maybe under invoicing or over invoicing. Like I said, we have direct contact with all the 3 mining giants, De Beers, ALROSA, and the BHP Billiton or -- all these companies, we exactly know which size of goods are at what price they are selling. So if somebody is changing that, he will not probably -- he will not like to be our customer. He knows we will be knowing this. So -- because we exactly know what parcel is at what price the mining company had sold. And these are all very large mining companies. There are 2 major, De Beers and ALROSA. And they also share every month their sales to India or -- and to the world. So we exactly know which goods are at what price. It's not very difficult, but we can get -- we get details about that.

Good evening, everyone. So I'll try and keep it short. I think to start off, as we have seen multiple presentations since morning, I strongly believe, as we look into the future, there are only 2 ways businesses will survive and businesses across industries, not just banking and financial services. Either the businesses will be enabled by technology or they will just run on technology, and they will be technology-led. I think where we are today, we have an opportunity to do both. While bulk of what we have been doing till now in the last 3, 4 years has been more focused towards how do we get technology to enable existing businesses run better? Increasingly in the last year, 1.5 years, we have seen success in creating businesses, which are not burn models but earn models, but can run on the back of technology, an alternate way of doing business, where the operating costs are very different, and it runs very differently. So with that, I'll just start off. Yes, so these are some of the key strategic pillars that at the digital banking unit at IndusInd we look at. So the first principle for us is how do we bring an element of human centricity to whatever we build. I think this is very important, especially when we talk about businesses that will have to run just on the back of technology without any human coming into play, without any RM assisting a customer about a product, but the customer just discovering it, understanding it because it is just so simple to get it that customer takes the product himself directly online. And there are -- there's a subtle difference here. So it's basically about I can add a funds transfer feature on my app. That could be a very product way of doing products. And it can be that how do people manage their money? Where do they pay? How do I make payment smart? What is the problem that I'm trying to solve? Can I make it convenient for users to pay? And can I ensure they never miss a payment, which is due for them, be it an EMI, be it a bill, be it any recurring payment that a customer makes? And that makes a whole lot of difference then on the way you end up designing the payments product, for example, and likewise, on every single product. So the focus is increasingly on understanding the consumer problem, and then starting from there. Instead of creating a product and creating a graffiti of products on an app, and then making it cumbersome for a customer to discover those on that application. The second thing, which we strongly believe in, is that embedded finance is increasingly a reality. I think in the first half of the day, there was a discussion around fintech partnerships and how we are looking at it. There is definitely an ecosystem emerging. And there are many players where we can collaborate, and we can create mutually win-win partnerships. But of course, there is a certain level of maturity, which is required, specifically when we talk about customer privacy, customer consent and data privacy. And off late, increasingly, the regulator is making it clear in terms of guidelines, be it the co-branded guidelines or the digital lending guidelines. So the space is becoming more and more clear to operate in now. And the embedded finance models, open banking models, where the products of the bank are embedded in a customer life cycle seamlessly will be more and more a reality, both for retail individual as well as business owner segments. The third important thing for us, and actually, one of the most important things is the technology has to work. It has to work every second of the day, every minute of the day. And for that, we give a lot of thought to the way we architect the solutions. And the core systems, when they were designed, most of the core systems were not designed with a mindset that they got to be up and running for a customer, let's say, at 2:00 in the midnight or there could be a surge of transactions as high as 10,000 TPS and sometimes happening at midnight hours. So how do we bridge that gap? And if time permits, I will talk more about it. But fundamentally, the modularity, having a microservices-based design, having an ability to scale on demand and downscale when the demand is not there. I think some of these elements, we pay a lot of attention to these elements when we design technology now. And of course, secure and highly available, so these are some of the fundamental principles that are part of our entire tech stack design, whatever we build. The fourth thing for us is that data is the new currency. Data is the oil as they say. And we cannot build differentiated customer experience. When I talk about building a product, which is human-centric, is starting from a customer need gap. More often than not to build a product like that, you need a very robust data and analytics foundation at the back. And that's the journey in itself that we are undertaking. It starts with bringing your entire data on the data warehouse. And then, of course, we extend on it. We start building models on the data warehouse. We create data pipelines across various fragmented systems so that we can bring complete customer DNA in one place. And increasingly now with all that data, once you have a lot of data about a customer, then you, obviously, also need to as logical step evolve to compute on cloud. So that's where we are on data in a nutshell right now. We are in a data 2.0 journey right now, where we are now looking at compute on cloud and also building a lot of our models on cloud. And the last thing, one of the most important things is that if we have to differentiate on the back of technology, if we have to differentiate on the back of customer experience, then there are critical decisions in terms of what we in-source and what we outsource. And something which is so critical as a strategic differentiator going forward, it cannot really be built with an outsourced kind of a model. So a lot of thrust is now on in-housing critical skills that are required to create this new operating model. And we have 150-member plus digital center of excellence based out of Gurgaon now, which we are constantly scaling up. But of course, we also have a bunch of collaborators, technology partners and equal number, if not more, engaged from a lot of our long-term technology partners continuously working with us across products and platforms. And all of this for us is a revenue motive, is a profit motive, efficiency motive. It is not there to just build and then have the breakeven happening far out into the future. For everything that we built, there are 3 broad areas that we track. One is we, of course, are doing this to get better customer engagement, better customer retention, and we measure that through our daily, weekly active users on various applications on platforms. We are doing this to bring efficiencies to the existing business models, and I'll briefly talk about that using EasyCredit as a case study on how we unlock productivity, how we reduce cost of operations and as soon as the stack is implemented, it broke even within first 3 months because that was the kind of cost that got freed up once we went live with the stack. And the last thing is, like I said, how do we use it to build direct business models, which are direct digital, tech-led and don't need a human intervention. An alternate way of doing business, where the infrastructure costs are essentially replaced with digital marketing costs to an extent, product costs and technology costs. But you don't have a lot of infrastructure costs or manpower costs that you incur in building those models. This is just a summary of how we stack up today more than 1 lakh clients we onboard every month using Video KYC. We are live not just for savings accounts, for personal loans, for credit cards. For current account, we are just in final stages of COG, as we say, closed user group testing. Business is mostly originated digitally in deposits when it comes to savings accounts. But what is also interesting now is that 30% of the business in savings by volumes now comes digitally unassisted. So the customer discovers us through the campaigns we do, through the organic marketing efforts that we do. And he comes to the platform and he downloads and get started with the opening of a savings account himself. 92% of our credit card business originates digitally. There is no paper originated at all whatsoever. It's a completely end-to-end digital journey and nearly 5% of the credit card business has already moved digital, unassisted. This is new to bank. Of course, a lot of banks have models where to an existing customer because you know the banking transaction data, you know the bureau profile of the client. You can underwrite an existing client and offer a preapproved card. What I'm referring to here is our ability to give a new to bank client, who is building his first relationship with the bank. And he wants to start it with a credit card, having the ability to do that in a digitally unassisted manner in an end-to-end digital flow with real-time underwriting using machine learning algorithms. So it's 5%. And hopefully, this month we'll close at close to 8% to 10% already because these new business models are seeing that kind of growth month-on-month. Personal loans, Likewise, 57% of our business is digital. Wealth is largely digital for us. And now with the extension of EasyCredit stack for small business banking, which we define as all exposures for small business, up to INR 2 crores ticket size in Indian rupee terms. 46% of our MSME business is now digital, and we plan to make it 90%-plus before the end of this financial year. This is just some metrics on how, across our platforms and applications, customers engage with us. Our active user base on the app has been growing very healthy, 30% year-on-year growth. We have one of the industry-leading growth on mobile transactions. We double our volumes typically year-on-year, every year. And more than 6 million users using this mobile. Nearly half of them are active users of the app. We have a registered base of more than 6 million. And likewise, the merchant app, which we launched quarter 3 of last year, somewhere around this time, we brought this proposition to the market, already has a user base of more than 1.5 lakh. And this is a proposition which is open for even new-to-bank customers. It's not necessary that you will open an account, become a merchant and then the app will unlock for you. We welcome new-to-bank clients also to basically start their relationship with the bank as a retailer, as a merchant. It has complete banking stack, payment stack and lending stack fully integrated. We offer features like you can order your pass, you can select your rental plan. You can even sign your merchant service agreement in a digital manner using e-sign. You can order a sound box. That's what we last went live with recently. And 90% of the people who discovered us, more than half of the people are new to bank entirely, and 90% of them actually came completely organically. And that's what we see on most of our applications without spending marketing dollars, the brand IndusInd has a very decent organic appeal, and we do see a lot of people organically discovering the products and coming. And that's a very healthy thing to have. Ideally across our digital business models, we would like to have that kind of a pull and pretty substantial and healthy mix of people discovering us organically instead of us having to spend marketing dollars to get them to discover us. This is just a snapshot of what impact technology creates on an existing business model. We can give the same example across various other products also, but I picked credit cards as one of the early adopters of this. So we went live with EasyCredit stack. It's a completely microservices-based technology, which means essentially that it is very, very resilient because -- the entire tech stack is broken into multiple modules. And even if one of the modules goes off, it doesn't mean that the technology stops working. There are many modules which continue working. And of course, it is very efficient infrastructurely if you have a micro services-based design because you don't budget infrastructure for the whole application. You can budget infrastructure for each of the micro services separately. So it's scalable, highly scalable on demand. You can scale up the specific modules, you can scale down the specific modules. API-native, so everything which is there is also part of our API gateway, which is cloud pack, which is hosted on cloud. And that becomes our gateway to the world, anybody wanting to interact with the bank for lending products up to exposures of INR 2 crores, basically plugs into the bank's secure API gateway and has the entire stack in a secure manner exposed over there. And it's a single stack, which powers our customer direct journeys. Our relationship managers in branches use it. Our off-line channel partners use it. Our digital aggregators and partners like Paisabazaar, BankBazaar, they use it. So it's a single development and lends itself seamlessly across all the use cases. 92% of the business in credit cards has become digital on the back of this. We do digital KYC, digital AML checks. We have a machine learning-based algorithm basis, which we score the clients and we give them a decision real-time. And 30% of the clients can actually take a card end-to-end digitally, completely being new to bank where we don't know anything about the client in an end-to-end 4- to 5-minute process. We are wanting to increase this 30% to 50% to 60%, but that's where we are right now. As soon as we launched this stack, there was a 40% jump in sales productivity because there is just so much of additional effort, which completely was removed. There is no form filling. There is no documentation. It's just less than 1 minute for a sales staff to originate a credit card application. And the processing costs, because we don't print any forms, we don't do any dispatches. We don't have scanning. We don't have data entry, is actually lower by 40% per application. So that's a huge savings and a huge impact of launching it on a credit card business model. And this is where I was saying that the stack was actually making money because of the cost efficiencies that is unlocked as soon as 3 to 4 months after the launch itself. Now the same stack, we currently offer 4 products on our EasyCredit stack, credit cards, personal loans, small ticket business loans and also secured overdraft products. And we are extending it for big ticket business loans as well as for cash credit limits and holistic working capital solutions, all the way up to INR 5 crores of ticket size. This is just a snippet of how customer direct model is working for us. We, of course, have not done big budget marketing spends on these models. The focus is on creating earn models and not burn models, like I was saying. So we currently -- like I was saying 30% of our savings accounts comes direct digital, which is almost -- most of these models are coming from a small base. the growth rates are very high. And credit cards, 8% to 10% is now direct digital for us. Customer comes to the platform, discovers us and takes the product. Nearly 35% to 40% of the credit card business is actually now either open banking let where the partners are using the APIs, or it is basically direct customer journey led. And across these models, the focus is on keeping the cost-to-income ratios low. So the savings account business that we originate digitally works at a direct cost on a direct cost basis, it works at an efficiency of 60%. It's not a bleed to the P&L. Credit cards, the cost of acquisition is at par with what we acquired it in an offline world also. It's not that we do spend marketing dollars, but it's done very intelligently. We optimize our campaigns on a very periodic basis to keep only those acquisition channels live, which actually drive conversions for us. And personal loans, again, our cost of acquisition is at par with the way you would acquire it offline. And on top of that, the yields are actually way higher because are at least 150 bps higher because the customer is willing to pay that premium for getting it instantly. So we've extended the same model for acquiring current amounts and small ticket business loans, and the business right now is small but growing very fast. Likewise, on partnerships, we do have partnerships with various players in the ecosystem. So there are 2, 3 types of partnerships where we are engage with fintechs, 3 types, if I have to bucket it broadly. One is where the fintech provides a specific service to us. Sometimes it's a technology service as well. There are fintechs, which have built very good tech stacks, and we can power a lot of innovative features using that. So those are the type of fintechs that we engage with. Some in the domain of decision signs and analytics also because they have advanced modeling techniques using deep learning, et cetera, which gives us refinement on top of our models. And then there are fintechs where we just originate a customer with the help of a fintech, but the client life cycle is managed by the bank. And there are co-lending frameworks. We have -- we do have some partners under those frameworks. What we don't have today is fintechs where you originate the customer with the fintech, and then the fintech also manages the entire customer life cycle. Because that's where the guidelines were not very clear. The co-branded guidelines have made it clear that customer consent and data privacy is going to be the defining factor in this new operating model. And we have set up a lot of guardrails. We want to work on this model in a very compliant manner. And with now with those guardrails and with the clarity coming out, we will now be engaging with some of these fintechs and creating those alternate business models. But like I was saying, partnerships business already contributes about 30% of our credit cards business volumes monthly. And we do have partnerships with Airtel Payments Bank for fixed deposits under business corresponding model and quite a few others, but we will scale it up further. Just a quick thing on how we look at what goes behind the scenes, what are some of the key building blocks for us in the digital strategy. So one is, like I was talking about the technology architecture being robust, scalable. And how do you blend a legacy core with the new age delivery is something that we have given a lot of thought to. So this is how we basically look at our tech stack. There is, of course, a data and analytics layer, and we do have the core tech stacks, which are legacy cores. And then we have a bunch of middlewares which sit on top of the legacy core. And these are the new developments that we have invested in, a strong API orchestration framework and an entire business process management layer, and then our applications and then the marketing tech. Now I don't want to spend too much time into each of these aspects today. But basically, to call out some of the key differentiating factors that we have built is, one is that our tech stacks are deeply integrated with our martech stack. Martech stack are things like AppFlyer, Google Analytics, things like CleverTap the stacks through which we get customers to discover us and the stacks -- the tech stacks through which we engage with our customers to grow their relationship. And this is very important to build a profitable digital business model, in my view, because it allows you to constantly test and learn and optimize your campaigns -- to focus on the campaigns, which drive business value. So that's a very distinguishing factor where we have taken our entire tech stack and integrated them deeply with our martech stack. The second thing is that all of our applications, whatever we are building, be it EasyCredit, Merchant App or the new mobile app that we are going to build is all cloud-native, microservices-based, API-native, like I spoke about already. What we have brought in new is how do you deal with the inefficiencies of a traditional core. So there is a bunch of middlewares that we have very proactively invested in, like I think somebody mentioned about the enterprise payment hub already. Like that, essentially, to get the core systems to manage the level of throughput that we want to manage them, we got to create a middle layer which is cloud native, which is near-time replica of the core, like a caching layer. And instead of speaking to the core, we speak to that middle layer. So that's where a lot of investment has gone. We have our entire identity management hollowed out of the core have our masters hollowed out of the core and even inquiries and transactions using a digital accelerator product, we have hollowed them out of the core so that we get the desired resiliency and scalability on the client-facing channels. So these are some of the things that we are doing on the tech stack. The second thing is how we use data and analytics. It is -- it goes without saying and by default all technology that we've built, everything has to go to an enterprise data warehouse, where a customer DNA continues to develop as the customer continues to engage with us on our applications and platforms. So be the feedback from the likes of Google Analytics or, MoEngage, or CleverTap or the client application, what the customer is doing on the app? Does he pay his bills, does he have recurring payments, whatever type of transaction behavior we capture, the core banking systems, even call center data and payment systems, all of that comes into a centralized enterprise data warehouse where we start building a customer DNA. And that essentially becomes the central brain through which we then drive all of our models, all of our campaigns. And broadly, we do 3 broad areas of analytics. One is marketing analytics. Like I said, how do we optimize our customer acquisition costs when we are operating in a digital kind of a business model? So that's where a lot of focus goes. Then customer engagement, driving personalized campaigns. Now increasingly, it is possible to do hyper-personalized campaigns to customers. And third area where we use analytics heavily is in risk management, where we have for lending up to INR 5 crores, it's largely algorithmic for us. We have acquisition scoring models. And we have behavior scoring models, and then we have collection scoring models through which we manage the entire life cycle of customers on the lending side. This is just an illustrative impact of various campaigns that we do using these models and -- the mobile app, the transaction intensity has seen an uptick of nearly 50% because of some of these campaigns that we drive. We do preapproved personal loans. And through ongoing refinements on the models, we are able to lift the approval rates by as high as 50% without adding anything on the risk cost. So that's what we use the models for. And of course, we also look at early delinquency metrics, and we refine our acquisition scoring models as soon as we detect that there is a heat map on the early delinquency in some cohorts, then we refine the model and create a new model to arrest that. The last piece that I will quickly speak about is the center of excellence that we have built. Across technology partners and the team that we have, it's a 300-plus member. Some of our technology partners are like working with us for more than a couple of years. So they are almost like extended team members for us. But these are the key elements in the center of excellence that we have put in place. It all starts with the product vision for us. What is the customer need gap that we are trying to solve? And how will we use design thinking to solve that problem? And that's where the product owners are responsible for creating that. And then we have a UI research team and a design team, which helps in bringing the design to life. And it's very important. There's a lot of work that happens in this -- the information architecture of the applications, whatever -- if a mobile app has 300 features, how do we make it discoverable for our customer? How do we minimize the clicks? So the UI research and design team does a lot of that. And then we have the engineering team, where we have an entire CICD pipeline set up now. We do follow the DevSecOps pipeline. We work in an agile manner. So that's what the engineering team takes care of. And once the product is ready, we have marketing teams and growth teams that spring into action to enhance discoverability of the product. And it's not always about spending a lot of marketing money there. If the product is good, it has to have a certain organic pull. And the best of the products, of course, at least do half of their business organically without having to without having to spend marketing dollars on it. So that's where the growth in the marketing teams market the products and keep the cost of acquisitions low. Content plays a very important role when we talk about building an organic appeal for the product. So we have a content team that works on that. Inside sales, we have almost a 100-member team here, which basically picks up the drop-offs that we have. If the customer drops off on a platform, they're able to pick it up real time, assist the customer and help him conduct the journey end-to-end -- and data science and analysts that I already spoke of. So this is the digital center of excellence that we have -- and yes. So as we look into the future, I think one shift that we see happening is that people are comfortable buying financial products and services online. So we will have to build models that are tech-led. We'll have to make the shift from using technology as an enablement to using technology as a way of doing business and creating a business model that rests on technology and for that, experience will play an important role. Like I said earlier, the embedded finance and the partnership and collaborations with the ecosystem is an opportunity that we see is going to accelerate. And there is also a bunch of new edge tech providers that we are now working with, of which enable disruptive innovation because of the composability or the API nativeness of this stacks. A lot of core banking stacks have very straight jacketed ways in which you can engage with them. It's not that you can open up the entire stack and get APIs for every microservice that is there in a core banking or a core payment system. But there are -- in some places, we have used now new age composable stacks, which will help us create some disruptive products in the market. And the other important theme, which is going to play out now clearly is customer consent and data privacy. As we get integrated into the ecosystem as we build these new models, we'll have to be very sure on how we handle customer consent and data privacy. So that's becoming an important aspect of all our design frameworks across the board. So this is what we see happening right now. Nearly 30% to 40% of the business, I would say, is like tech-led in retail. It should pivot to 60% to 70%. We want to acquire close to 10 million clients over the next 3 years, creative business, assets and liabilities together of more than INR 25,000 crores over the next 3 years. And on data and analytics, we are already -- you can call it data 2.0, but that will continue to get accelerated. We will move toward the data 3.0 strategy. And the in-house center of excellence will continue to scale up us. We'll continue to beef up some of the skills. In some of these areas, we have good strength in some areas like UI/UX, we do have a lot of partners and collaborators that we work with. But increasingly, we would like to have more and more of the skill in-house. And yes...

Yes. You mentioned about the credit card, I just want to know there's a lot of fintechs, like CRED and all that. They are sitting in our app, and they are aiding the payment. So I don't know whether you are the right person to answer this, but a lot of business will not go to them over the period of time. They start lending credit card business to credit card lender and they take away incrementally business on the bank?

See, I think as far as RBI -- my reading of the regulation and the environment on this is that you can, of course, acquire a customer. But when it comes to ongoing life cycle management of a client, the customer has to always have access to the bank. The customer, even if somebody is, let's say, issuing a card in collaboration with CRED, at the end of the day, the customer does belong to that bank. And the customer will have to have direct access to the bank and also the guardrails are becoming clear. If you look at the co-branded circular, which came out that the banks cannot share a lot of transaction data with these -- with the third-party service providers in whichever shape and form, in co-branded or fintechs or whatever. And -- so there is going to be a limitation in my view. There is going to be a certain limitation to the extent to which a player like CRED can extend experience or card cycle management to a customer. But as an acquisition partner for existing banks, that's a model that can be explored.

So how do they get data about the customer spend every year? Is it a RBI mandate or something like that? How do they get every month, billing?

How do they get it? Okay. So when you download CRED, you do sign up, you consent to allow them to read all your SMSs, you allow them to scrap everything. Now that way the customer consent and data privacy framework is also coming into play because some of these consents are in a way that you probably don't even know that you consented for it.

No, no, but how does it know that it billed every month like say...

Because you get an SMS alert for that. So it scrapes it. It knows that you have a bill of a certain bank ending with a certain number, which it...

Banks does not provide any information to them directly?

No.

So I mean, is it not more of a threat to the credit card business of a bank, where people like that can come in and they offer a cheaper rate credit to...

[indiscernible].

No, they can take, like, say, whatever suppose -- I have INR 1 lakh at the end of the day, I transfer that amount to the CRED or something. I take a loan or something, and credit card business, credit card loan gets affected by the bank. I mean, whatever the lending?

[indiscernible] the revolver rates are only 20%, 25%. So don't confuse a term loan and a revolving credit. It's very different...

I had a query. We did discuss about we've shown some fabulous numbers in terms of the benefits that we're getting out of the implementation of the technologies, right, some 40% improvement in efficiencies, 7x increase in loan numbers. But when we see this in conjunction with our cost-to-income ratio, our cost-to-income ratio has remained where they are. So just wanted to understand when do we see the benefit of this flowing into our P&L? We have a target of, say, of some -- would be some target that we have that it should start reflecting in our cost to income. So if you can...

The way to answer that question -- let me answer this.

Sure. Sure, sir.

The operating leverage comes over a period of time. Our investments are going in, in branch expansion, digital expansion, what you will see today may be shades of indie, yes. Technology, infrastructure capability building. So the leverage on all of this comes over a period of time. So what you're seeing is the cost-to-income ratio has gone up to 44.6 from 43. It will start coming down maybe by fourth quarters in the next 2 to 3 quarters, you'll start see a declining cost to income ratio. And it'll come back to the 41 to 43. We will continue to be at 41% to 43% range. For a very long time, as long as we're investing in branches, we are investing in new technology and we're investing in people. It will continue to be. When our asset base touches about 3 years down the road at [ 600,000 ] or something, the leverage starts playing out in a very different way. And at that point, a good universal bank will be at 37% to 40%, which is what HDFC is.

So just to understand, maybe 3 years down the line is where we expect that our cost to income would be...

Will reach that 38% to 40%.

Ye's, got it.

That is where the operating leverage is going to be.

Okay, done. Thank you.