Industrie De Nora S.p.A. (DNR) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning. This is the Chorus Call conference operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the Industrie De Nora Q1 2025 Results Presentation. [Operator Instructions]. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Ms. Chiara Locati, Head of Investor Relations and ESG of Industrie De Nora. Please go ahead, madam.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to our Q1 2025 financial results presentation. My name is Chiara Locati, Head of Investor Relations and ESG at De Nora. With me on the call today, there are Paolo Dellacha, CEO of the Group; and Luca Oglialoro, our CFO. They will give you -- they will guide you through the financial and business performance for the first 3 months of the year. After the presentation, we will open up a Q&A session. Finally, please note that the slides for this presentation are available in the Investor Relations section of our website. With that, I would like to hand it over to Paolo. Paolo, the floor is yours.

Thank you, Chiara. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining today's conference call and for your interest in De Nora. I'm excited to share that 2025 has started off strong for us. We delivered a solid quarter of results, fueled by continued execution and agility from all our businesses across our balanced segments and final market portfolio. Our revenues have grown by middle single digits, driven primarily by our core business. The performance of our electrodes segment has been particularly noteworthy, supported mainly by the successful execution of projects in the chlor-alkali sector and the initial signs of recovery in the Electronics segment. Our Water business has also seen a significant increase, led by a new surge in the Pool segment, which has experienced substantial volume growth this quarter, recording the highest revenue level of the past 2 years. The Energy Transition segment has recorded volumes in line with our internal project planning. Moreover, our EBITDA margin exceeded 19% has benefited from several factors such as the development of volumes, a favorable product mix and efficiencies in our production processes following the optimization of our facilities that took place throughout 2024. Finally, the backlog at the end of the period remained substantially stable compared to December 2024, thanks to an evolution of order intake that was largely in line with revenues. I'd like to share the main takeaways from this quarter. We are navigating a volatile and complex scenario with sounding results, leveraging all the strengths of our business model and market positioning. Our approach is characterized by versatility, market and geographical diversification, adaptability and technological leadership. This first quarter delivered growth in revenues and profitability, as you can see from the first lines of this slide. This gives us confidence in reaffirming our guidance for 2025. However, we remain mindful of the challenging geopolitical and macroeconomic environment influenced by factors ranging from inflation and currency fluctuations to the potential impacts of U.S. tariffs on global economic growth. As I mentioned earlier, the positive performance this quarter is attributable to our core business, which remains resilient and capable of creating value over time. The combined revenues of electrodes and Water segments have recorded growth of over 12% this quarter, although it is worth mentioning that the first quarter of 2024 was relatively weak. The profitability of these 2 segments exceeded 22%, which is particularly high for the Water segment. Luca will provide you with more details on this performance. The positive momentum of the Water business remains confirmed with a robust backlog and order intake growth, primarily driven by the Water Technology Systems line, while Pool's performance boosted the revenues and profitability of the entire business unit. Regarding the energy transition business, in Q1, production volumes aligned with the project schedules agreed upon with our clients. Our business unit remains resilient and our targets for 2025 are confirmed. However, the short-term market outlook is mainly influenced by slow regulatory developments, infrastructure challenges and the evolving landscape of offtakers as market evolution timelines continue to extend and natural selection process has begun for projects and companies unable to adapt to short-term uncertainties. De Nora, characterized by a solid economic and financial structure, stays committed to developing strategic partnership and advanced technological solutions. These efforts are aimed not only at the green hydrogen sector, where we strive to maintain our leadership position, but also at other areas related to the energy transition, leveraging our century-long expertise in electrochemistry. We remain focused on planning capital allocation to accelerate the group's development, both organically and by evaluating also external growth opportunities. From the perspective of our global footprint in this quarter, we inaugurated our new innovation center in Ohio, United States, underscoring our leadership in research and development with 6 laboratories now established across the various regions where we operate. Meanwhile, the construction of our Gigafactory in Italy is progressing. It will gradually become operational starting in 2026 and will serve as the Italian hub for the integrated, optimized and sustainable management of all our business units across the country. Finally, in terms of sustainable management, our ESG journey continues with unwavering commitment. During the first quarter, we advanced our decarbonization efforts in line with our emission reduction targets by increasing the use of renewable energy. We completed the installation of new photovoltaic plants at our facilities in Kalmar, United States, Samworth, U.K., adding a total annual installed capacity of 380 megawatt hour. This brings the group total installed capacity to approximately 4 gigawatt hour. Additionally, we are launching new initiatives focused on principles such as human rights, which Chiara will elaborate on later. In this slide, you can review some of the main KPIs from our Q1 2025 financial performance, which Luca will comment on shortly. Reviewing our business unit performance. Let's begin with our Electro Technologies business, which has demonstrated a remarkable growth in the first quarter. Revenue has increased by over 15% year-on-year, driven by strong execution of portfolio orders and operational excellence. Order intake has grown by approximately 8%, primarily due to the expansion of the Electrowinning segment, which has been strengthened by a new aftermarket order in the U.S. for nickel refining. Additionally, a slight recovery of the electronics and continued stability in the chlor-alkali segment have contributed to this positive result. Regarding the geographic distribution of orders, as shown in the slide, Asia remains the dominant market, accounting for 54% of new orders, strengthening its role in driving global demand. The EMEA region continues to show strong momentum, contributing to 24% of new orders and recording an impressive 20% growth compared to the first quarter of 2024. These results reinforce the market trust in our technology and expertise. Looking ahead, we remain committed to expanding our global presence and delivering industry-leading solutions that support long-term sustainable growth. As far as the pipeline is concerned, chlor-alkali and hydrochloric acid remain stable, while the Electronics segment outlook is showing signs of recovery alongside continued strong opportunities in the aftermarket activities across different segments. As previously mentioned in our conference calls, we expect a moderate expansion in chlor-alkali production capacity over the next few years. This will unlock potential for new build projects and large-scale conversion initiatives. Our joint venture, ThyssenKrupp Nucera is actively engaged in basic engineering and design packaging for multiple projects across the U.S., China, Central Europe and Middle East. As for the backlog, we would like to reiterate that end-of-period backlog does not necessarily reflect actual revenue growth prospects due to the fast-paced nature of order intake and fulfillment especially in the case of aftermarket contracts. Therefore, the evolution of the data as of March 2025 does not compromise the revenue expectations for 2025. To conclude, I'd like to point out that the operational inefficiency linked to the 2024 production facility scale-up have been successfully addressed. As a result, profitability in this quarter has benefited from an optimized production setup, ensuring greater efficiency and performance moving forward. We are now on Slide 8. The Water business continues to show strong momentum with particularly robust order growth in the first quarter across both the Water Technology Systems, what we call WTS and Pool segment. In Water Technology Systems, new orders expanded by 16%, reaching 1.7x the revenues of the period. This growth was fueled by an increase in aftermarket contracts, which surged by 70% compared to Q1 2024. Geographically, the growth was primarily driven by strong demand in the Americas and in the Middle East. The Pools segment reported a 19% increase in new orders, mainly concentrated in the U.S. and Europe. Revenues jumped approximately 32% year-over-year in the first 3 months of 2025, reaching the highest level in the past 2 years. The strong revenue performance driven by volume increase has meaningfully enhanced the profitability of the entire business unit. Finally, the overall backlog driven by strong new orders expanded by approximately 17% compared to the end of 2024, reaching its highest level in the past 7 quarters. This evolution in our order portfolio offers strong visibility into revenue growth and aligns with our short- and midterm guidance. Overall, the main market trends related to Water Technologies remain confirmed. And based on our market position and technological advantages, we can confirm our positive midterm growth expectation for the next years. Let's now take a look at some flagship contracts secured during Q1 in the Water Technology Systems. During the first quarter of 2025, we secured several significant contracts across both the municipal and industrial sectors. Slide 9 and 10 explore some key projects achieved across diverse geographies, China, the United States, Brazil and Saudi Arabia. Each project showcases the advanced water treatment technology provided by De Nora, including Tetra filtration technology, SEACLOR and Capital Control Technology. Our first project involves the largest wastewater treatment plant in the Kunming province and the third largest underground water purification facility in China. Processing up to 400,000 cubic meters of wastewater daily, the plant plays a critical role in restoring the polluted Dianchi Lake, supporting ecological balance, strategically positioned to address rising water output -- wastewater output from urban expansion, the project aligns with local environmental objectives. Moving to Slide 10. Another key in Nebraska U.S. is a technological upgrade involving the replacement of Tetra filters that have been in operation for 25 years. The upgraded system we are providing can now efficiently treat and recycle 50,000 cubic meters per day of processed water from the steel mill. The project improves water treatment quality, a critical factor in steel production. By optimizing water usage and contamination removal, the upgrade strengthens overall manufacturing efficiency. The third project is in Brazil. Here, the integration of our Seaclor technology in a new Petrobras project reinforces De Nora presence in the country's oil and gas industry. Petrobras actively collaborates with local communities to maximize the benefits of its floating production storage and offloading projects, improving both environmental and social conditions, while fostering strong community relations. The last project presented is in Saudi Arabia. The primary objective of our project is in Riyadh is to enhance the city water transmission network, ensuring a reliable and efficient supply to meet growing demand. By modernizing infrastructure with our capital controls, the project supports Riyadh urban development strategy, while improving sustainability and overall quality of life. Finally, regarding PFAS, I'm thrilled to announce that we signed our first contract during quarter 1, our client in the city of Perkasie, Pennsylvania located near our Kalmar facility. The contract aims to remove PFAS, the so-called forever chemicals from municipal water. This win is a significant milestone that shows how far we can come in building the technical credibility, the supply chain, team capability and customer confidence needed to secure and execute these kind of projects. In addition, the location provides us with a strong foothold in Southeastern Pennsylvania and Northeastern U.S.A., a region where regulatory activity around PFAS is increasing and neighboring municipalities are closely monitoring the project outcomes. It's a great opportunity to build local references. This project allows us to demonstrate our product performance in the field, supporting future bids and reinforcing our position as a serious player in PFAS treatment. Our equipment is scheduled to be delivered by the third quarter of 2025. Meanwhile, we continue to advance 13 pilot and research and development initiatives across the U.S., Italy and the Middle East as outlined in our previous calls. The orders acquired reflect the strength of our business model, which is built on a strategic presence in key geographies critical to water treatment. By offering a comprehensive portfolio of advanced, reliable and efficient solutions, combined with outstanding project execution capabilities, we continue to drive sustainable growth and reinforce our leadership in the industry. Let's now move on to the Energy Transition segment. During the first quarter, we continued executing the projects in our backlog, particularly focusing on NEOM contract. We successfully delivered approximately 200 megawatts of green hydrogen technologies. The production volumes were kept in line with our plans and agreements with our clients. There have been no delays or slowdowns in the execution of our planned activities. Coming back to our backlog, the NEOM project concerning the De Nora activity is expected to conclude in the first half of 2025. Another significant contract in our portfolio is more than 700-megawatt Stegra project in Sweden, which is dedicated to sustainable steel production. Additionally, as already explained in our previous call, we have an important energy transition project in our portfolio signed in December by our subsidiary in Japan, dedicated to developing electrochemical technology for recovering and refining lithium from spent batteries. This new contract marks a significant milestone for De Nora, which aims to expand its scope of action, sorry, in the energy transition, developing innovative solutions to meet the dynamic needs of the market and leveraging its unique technological and research and development positioning with a special focus on electrochemistry, which can be exploited in different fields of the energy transition space. We are now at Slide 12 for a quick update on the green hydrogen market. The clean hydrogen market is consolidating on its fundamentals, supported by different regional strategies and reaching full validation of most promising use cases and final applications. To navigate this moment, it is crucial to own a solid financial capacity to cope with short-term uncertainties, cutting-edge technology and proven operational know-how. Heading towards 2030, hydrogen remains a critical element of the global low-carbon energy system, yet its growth will likely follow an incremental and more sustainable trajectory. Despite some headwinds and regulation uncertainties such as in North America, for example, other regions such as Europe, Middle East and Asia keep supporting with incentives towards a reliable and sustainable clean hydrogen economy. In 2025, auctions and economic support will fund the most economical H2 project, hydrogen projects. At least 12 auctions will take place worldwide, distributing as much as $28 billion to clean hydrogen producers. We believe that through slower and steadier growth, the market could even benefit from supplier consolidations, stronger partnerships and further technological improvements. Considering that also base case scenarios are projecting a growth trajectory for green hydrogen, we are expecting midterm outlook with favorable framework conditions throughout a more balanced and organic growth between electrolyzer manufacturer capacity, new project advancements, infrastructure development, offtake agreements and overall implementation of global and local regulations and incentive schemes. In terms of 2025, 2030 hydrogen demand, traditional uses of hydrogen such as refineries, chemicals, fertilizers will still be prevalent, requiring proper decarbonization planning and adaptation to carbon pricing and emissions trading systems, the so-called ATS regulations. Hard-to-abate sectors of steel, cement, glass maintain a solid perspective as hydrogen is unavoidable towards sustainable decarbonization of these industries. In parallel, the maritime and aviation industries offer the most robust and widespread new use cases for clean hydrogen derivatives in mobility. Shipping and aviation companies have started signing binding offtake deals to secure clean fuels following decarbonization policies as the Marine Clean Fuel Standard that just released from the IMO, the International Maritime Organization and the ESAF, the Sustainable Aviation Fuels Adoption Scheme under the Refuel AU Aviation regulation. Positive signals are recorded also on hydrogen midstream infrastructure, crucial to support clean hydrogen offtake and market consolidation. At the European level, some relevant activities are already ongoing. Germany to complete within 2025, the first 500 kilometers of construction of its planned 9,000-kilometer hydrogen core network. Belgium started the first 40 kilometers construction of its 600-kilometer plan in their hydrogen pipeline network. France just released 500 kilometers of hydrogen pipelines to be operative by 2030. Denmark and the Netherlands are joining agreements to expand the Central Europe hydrogen network. While key project, the South H2 corridor and H2 Med remains among the strategic infrastructures in the EU clean energy plans. To conclude our review of the Energy Transition segment, our pipeline is stable with a different geographical mix with more dynamism in Europe and Middle East from which we expect concrete commercial opportunities in the coming months. Now let me give you some updates on our global production footprint. I'm proud to share that in April, we inaugurated our new innovation center in Mentor, Ohio, United States, home to one of our most advanced electrode manufacturing. This innovation center joins our existing 5 research and development laboratories across the U.S., Italy and Japan. The new facility marks another significant investment in the country and confirms America's strategic relevance in the group international expansion plan. This initiative further enhances the De Nora innovation activities, which have always been at the forefront and a driver for its growth. Spanning over 10,000 square feet, the center is directly connected to our production plant in Mentor. The innovation center will focus on advancing product development and manufacturing capabilities, particularly for DSA electrodes in the chlor-alkali industry and GDs gas diffusion electrodes, meaning for energy transition for pioneering applications. It will support the development of core technology for fuel cells, water electrolysis, CO2 conversion, specialty chemical production and other emerging solutions. The establishment of this facility in North America reflects our broader vision of leading electrochemical innovation and enhancing technological solutions for the industries we serve, including energy transition. To conclude and looking ahead, 2025 has started positively, allowing us to reaffirm our confidence in the continued evolution of our business. However, the macroeconomic and geopolitical environment remains highly volatile. Despite this, we remain focused on advancing our technologies, optimizing the efficiency of our factories and strengthening strategic partnership across various business lines. With that, I'll now hand it over to Luca for the financial review.

Thank you, Paolo. The year 2025 began on a positive note with revenue growing by approximately 6% and total revenue reaching around EUR 200 million. The result was supported by a slight positive impact of approximately EUR 2 million, mainly in the water business due to the favorable evolution of the U.S. dollar in the early months of the year. From a geographical perspective, the APAC region showed significant growth, contributing around 36% to consolidated revenue, up from 33% in Q1 2024, primarily driven by the Electro Technology segment. The Americas region also increased its share, contributing 33% compared to 30% in Q1 2024, thanks to both the electrode and Water segment. As a result, the EMEA region contributed 30% of total revenue, down from approximately 37% in Q1 2024, reflecting the ongoing evolution of the energy transition segment. The core business has driven consolidated revenue growth. Electro Technology business grew by around 15%, thanks also to the favorable comparison with a soft Q1 2024. Volumes from the new installation grew by 32% year-on-year. As a consequence, the aftermarket revenue incidence was 42%, down from approximately 50% in Q1 2024. Growth in the Electro Technology business was mainly driven by strong execution of contracts in the chlor-alkali segment, which increased by 16% year-over-year, contributing to about 72% of the business unit's total revenue. The Electronics segment also had a positive impact, showing first recovery signals with a 21% growth compared to Q1 2024. Meanwhile, the Electrowinning Specialty segment remained stable. The Water Technologies business recorded positive performance, growing nearly 9% year-on-year, largely due to the 32% increase in the Pool segment, which reached EUR 33 million in revenue and recorded the best quarter of the last 2 years. Conversely, the Water Technology System performance was influenced by the scheduling of projects, which -- with developments expected to materialize mainly in the second half of the year and by the divestments of the Marine business in 2024, which negatively impacted the annual comparison by EUR 1.7 million. Aftermarket revenues contributed 47% in the WTS segment, marking a significant improvement from 37% in Q1 2024 and contributing positively to profitability. Finally, the energy transition business, whose volumes for 2025 are fully guaranteed by orders already in the backlog, recorded approximately EUR 18 million in revenues, down compared to the same period of 2024. This evolution is in line with the planned scheduled agreed with clients and therefore, has no impact on the annual guidance, which remains unchanged. The positive revenue trend in Q1 fully confirms our guidance for 2025 across different business units despite continued volatility in the macroeconomic environment. Sequential revenue growth is expected in the coming quarters with a stronger concentration in the second half of the year. On Page 17, you'll find our backlog as of the end of March 2025, which Paolo has already discussed. We are now on Slide 18, which presents an overview of our operating cost structure. The cost of goods sold as a percentage of revenue remained consistent with the same period in 2024, despite provisions made for risks related to a European client in the energy transition business, which announced the discontinuation of its operations and initiated a settlement procedure. On the other hand, Q1 saw an improved operating profitability as factories regained a higher level of productivity, overcoming the inefficiencies faced in 2024 due to the scale-up of production capacity. The increase in G&A and corporate cost reflects inflationary dynamics and the carryover impact of corporate structure announcements implemented in the second half of 2024. Finally, R&D expenses remained broadly stable as a percentage of revenue compared to Q1 2024, averaging around 2%. In absolute terms, there's slightly decrease due to the optimization of certain fixed costs despite the increase in the number of researchers, which reached approximately 120 at the end of March 2025. Let's move on Slide 19. The adjusted EBITDA in the first quarter increased by approximately 8% with an incidence of revenues of 19.7%, about 400 basis points higher than the first quarter of 2024. This positive performance mirrors the upward trend seen in revenues, underscoring the steady growth of the core business. The Electro Technologies division reported a healthy profitability of approximately 22.5%, primarily driven by increased volumes. This level of profitability exceeds the debt of the last 3 quarters of 2024, which featured a different mix of products, market and geographies compared to Q1 2024. This explains the evolution of the Q1 2025 versus the same quarter in 2024. On the other hand, the improvement in profitability in the first quarter of 2025 compared to the last quarters of 2024 reflects the recovered excellence in operation following the inefficiencies faced in 2024 due to the production capacity scale-up, as already explained in the previous slide. The Water Technologies business achieved a strong 47% growth in adjusted EBITDA with an incidence of revenues exceeding 22%, a record high in the past 2 years. This performance reflects the positive contribution of both the WTS and Pools segment. Regarding the Pool segment, the increase in profitability was primarily driven by higher volumes reported during the quarter. The WTS segment also saw improved profitability, supported by several key factors, including the expansion of revenue from aftermarket services and the optimization of operational structures, partly due to the divestments of the Marine business. Additionally, the segment benefited from a one-off gain of just under EUR 1 million from the disposal of the fracking-related business in the U.S. In conclusion, the Water business remains solid and resilient, demonstrating its ability to generate value for the group over time. However, the anticipated increase in the weight of WTS revenues within the total water business in the coming quarters, along with the usual progression of operating cost throughout the year is expecting to align the business unit profitability more closely with the 2025 guidance. In the Energy Transition business, the trend of EBITDA was primarily driven by planned lower production volumes and the provision related to the European customer, as already described in the previous slide. Without these provisions, the adjusted EBITDA would have been at breakeven despite the soft volumes and the R&D expenses, which accounted for 12% of revenues. Notably, gross margin improved, reflecting the regained operational efficiency after the optimization of production processes completed in 2024. This, coupled with the planned progressive increase in volumes across the next quarter makes us confident that we will reach our EBITDA 2025 guidance for the business unit, which is expected to be positive and broadly in line with 2024. Finally, on Slide 20, let's take a look at the evolution of our net financial position. Net operating cash flow typically mirrors the evolution of net working capital in the first quarter of the year. In particular, in Q1 2025, the evolution was driven by trade payables related to inventory buildup for project execution as well as VAT payments made according to the standard due date. CapEx was EUR 13.2 million following the schedule of the 2025 investment plan. We confirm our solid financial structure, which puts us in the best position to seize international -- internal and external growth opportunities. We are finally on Slide 21. The robust results achieved in the first quarter of the year, both in revenue growth and profitability across various business units, combined with a strong visibility provided by our backlog as of March 31, 2025, enable us to confidently reaffirm our guidance for 2025 despite ongoing volatility and uncertainty in the short-term macroeconomic and geopolitical landscape. With that, I leave the floor to Chiara for the update on our ESG journey.

Thank you, Luca. Let me give you a very quick update on our ESG and sustainability activities. During the first quarter, we continued with our decarbonization plan aimed at reducing our Scope 1 and Scope 2 emissions, also by increasing the use of renewable energy. Specifically, in the first 3 months of the year, we completed the installation of 2 new photovoltaic plants at our facility in Colmar, Pennsylvania, U.S. and Tamworth, U.K. Both newly installed facilities have a total capacity of around 380 megawatt hours annually. In particular, at our Colmar facility, we have installed a plant of approximately 350 megawatt hours, which has the potential to cover 100% of its annual energy consumption. Thanks to this new installation, the total capacity of the group's photovoltaic plants at various facilities in the U.S., Brazil, U.K., Germany and Italy has now reached approximately 4 gigawatt hours. We are pleased to continue our decarbonization journey with determination as outlined in our sustainability plan, which already yielded the positive results in 2024. De Nora commitment to creating sustainable value for all stakeholders remains strong and unchanged. To foster this objective, De Nora is taking part in the United Nations Global Compact Business and Human Rights Accelerator, a 6-month training program focused on human rights due diligence. 64 countries worldwide are participating in this program, and it presents a unique opportunity for De Nora, which has been selected for the Italian track alongside other 39 Italian companies. The training is designed to strengthen our capabilities in identifying and assessing actual or potential adverse human rights impact across our activities and supply chain, developing a concrete and measurable action plan to implement due diligence processes in accordance with international standards. This initiative aligns with our ongoing commitment for responsible business conduct, enhancing transparency and accountability towards our stakeholders. With that, I leave the floor to Paolo for the final summary.

Yes. Thank you, Chiara. So final remarks on our Q1 2025 performance. So we have started strong and guidance are confirmed. So strong start, plus 12% core business revenues driven by electrode technologies and pools. Healthy profitability supported by volumes and production efficiencies, our solid financial structure is confirmed. Positive water momentum continues with backlog growing on strong order intake, revenues and profitability boosted the consolidated results. Well positioned in a volatile and complex macroeconomic scenario guidance 2025 confirmed. The core business outlook remains resilient, while awaiting the recoveries of the new energy transition market. Keep pursuing our strategies to growth, which include strategic alliances, technological development and potential external growth will drive our performances. Thank you very much. Now we are ready for Q&A.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from Matteo Bonizzoni of Kepler Cheuvreux.

Good start to the year. So my question is -- first question is on the margin. Clearly, the margin was a positive surprise, 19.7% versus 17% for the full year, which you have confirmed. So my question is to try to understand the expected evolution, let's say, for the 2 legacy business, Electro and Water. In Water, in particular, the margin was extremely strong. I think 22.7% is probably the highest quarter since the IPO or something like that. So the consensus for the full year is, I was looking now on [ visible alpha ] is to have a margin in the range of 16%, 17%. So definitely below the first quarter, which you said was also impacted positively by pool and so on. So can you provide a little bit more color on this bridge, so between 22.7% and 16%, 17% do you think is a reasonable assumption by the consensus? For Electro Technologies, the gap is lower. Still there is a positive gap, I think, in Q1, 22.5%. The consensus is in the range of 21%, 22%. Can you confirm that or elaborate a little bit the expected evolution for the next 3 quarters? Second last question is on the -- we are reading that in energy transition, you are starting the business in lithium recovery in circular lithium, which is pretty new, at least for me. Just to understand maybe can you elaborate the opportunity and also quantify this opportunity going forward?

Thank you. I'll start with the margin one. Yes, it was a very good start of the year, 19.7% is a satisfactory definitely EBITDA margin. We -- what we are seeing is the fact that, as you know, it's typical of the business of the company to have more concentration of cost in the second part of the year. The first part of the year is a particularly light of cost -- structural cost. So this is the reason why we maintain our guidance for 17%. The second reason is that water that was particularly high in the third quarter, as you said, we will have in the second part of the year, a higher concentration of water WTS compared to pools. It will go around 10 percentage points higher. And you know that WTS has a lower profitability than pools. Then Q1 was a very good start. We need to now wait what will be the trend in the second quarter of the year. And in case we will see a further improvement of the different sectors of the business, we will then decide if to update or not the guidance in the second quarter of the year. Paolo for the...

Okay. For the lithium, let's say that we have been always saying that electrochemistry has a very, very high versatility. So we've been starting engaging ourselves in transforming lithium from either the original sources, meaning salt, so lithium chloride or from also battery waste, which is becoming a very, very major business because the more we go on, the more will be waste batteries to be recovered, where we are talking also about lithium sulfate. So there are different forms of lithium molecules that thanks to the electrochemistry, instead of using polluting chemicals and very, let me say, more traditional ways to recover or extract the lithium, we can apply our technology to make a lithium hydroxide, which is a very, very well-known solution for us coming from our huge electrochemical experience, which is the form that allows the lithium to enter back into the production process. So we started that some time ago, but now we are observing a very, very large interest in this to the point that we made it a strategic initiative. The company is focusing a lot on this, also expect over the next years with some also research and development effort to be able to provide complete solutions and electrolyzers serving this new market, which is very much also needed in the energy transition process.

The next question comes from Isacco Brambilla of Mediobanca.

I have 3. The first one is on the aftermarket side of the business that grew substantially in the first part of 2025 in Water Technologies. Is there any sort of target you may share for aftermarket instance on Water Technologies, say, to be reached by the end of 2025. It was roughly 25% of sales, I guess, last year. Second question is again on Water Technologies. Looking at the pools business, can you give us a sense of drivers of growth between new installation and replacement of your component of the base installed amid the COVID pent-up demand? I know it's difficult, but for sure, you have a bit more visibility than us. Last question is on energy transition, making the math, it looks like you got EUR 5 million to EUR 6 million orders in the first quarter of 2,000 -- new orders in the first quarter of 2025. Can you just elaborate a bit more on that? Is this coming from the lithium battery orders you were mentioning or small-scale electrolyzers or what else?

Okay. So I start answering the first 2 questions, which, by the way, are very similar, meaning that the more the installed base grows like in the case of WT Water Systems, but also in the case of pools and partially, as you said, coming from the fantastic growth in volumes that we had during the COVID period, of course, the more the aftermarket grows. Of course, to make it grow, the only variable cannot be just the installed base. You need to follow it up properly. You need to have the proper teams of people that are very close to our customers. So as I always say, the proximity we have with customers with our global footprint allows together with the competence and the capacity of our people to be as close to the customers as possible and to make the aftermarket business growing consistently over the time. Difficult to give you numbers, honestly, because it depends on water systems, we are dealing with thousands of equipment spread all over the planet. And in pools, we are talking about millions of pools spread all over the planet. But in general, it's a good trend that is not only driving growth in volumes, but also in profitability. On the last part...

On the last -- yes, on the energy transition, you're right. There are several small projects that is -- I mean, that are not material one by one, but altogether create, let's say, an increase of the backlog by a few million, Isacco.

[Operator Instructions]

So thank you very much for participating in our conference call.

Thank you, everybody. Have a good day.

Bye.

Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining. The conference is now over, and you may disconnect your telephones.