Informatica Inc. (INFA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, and welcome to our next session. My name is Sheldon McMeans, and I help support Raimo covering the U.S. enterprise software space. I'm really pleased to have Informatica CEO, Amit Walia; and CFO, Mike McLaughlin. Amit, Mike, thanks for being here.

My pleasure to be here. Thank you for hosting us.

Yes. So Amit, you hosted an inaugural Investor Day on Tuesday. Informatica has been the leader in the data management space for some time. I think, 18 years in a row on the Gartner Magic Quadrant. Can you recap, for the audience, your innovation journey?

Sure. We'll tag team. I'll give you my Reader's Digest version and Mike will back me up, too. Well, look, I think our core focus for the Investor Day was, because there are still people who don't know the story very well. And while the company has gone through so much change. To give you context, this is the 30th year of Informatica, and at our 22-year mark, we went private. So in the last 8 years, we have reinvented, re-innovated at such a dramatic pace that the company never did in the first 22 years. That's, like, just to contextualize the pace of innovation. And what we went from is a single product on-prem license software company, covering a single use case around data warehouse, ETL to now a true platform with a much broader set of products, 7 product market categories, all built ground up born in the cloud, all Magic Quadrant of Forrester Wave leaders, not a single one of our competitors has ever remotely come close to us. With the only AI-powered data management platform that these best-of-breed products sit on called IDMC and running in a multi-vendor, multi-cloud, hybrid environment, so we can manage any of those workloads. And that innovation story was the first one for folks to understand, that this is a ground-up best-of-breed products platform built for the modern data architecture, and we are growing on the coattails of net new business that's coming to this, not migrating the old and that, in front, of us set many tailwinds of continued digital transformation, our own migration from on-prem to cloud, and of course, gen AI, as we speak here. Getting that story out and make sure everybody fundamentally understands that because we've been executing so well and consistently against this was the primary focus at that point. I'll let Mike add to that because, obviously, there was many more things, but that was kind of the innovation story that we just wanted to get out there.

Yes. The journey part of the Informatica story was an important starting point, that from 2015, we really reinvented the company from the ground up. Everybody knows -- who knows data management know PowerCenter invented the category of data management, and it's still out there and it works great, and we have 3,500 customers that still pay us maintenance on PowerCenter. But that's not what the new product is. It never was. It was built from the ground up. And what we're doing today, all the new business that we're selling today is the new product. We're migrating some of the maintenance base to the new product, and that contributed about 17% of our total growth or 7% of our 37% of cloud growth in the last 12 months. But the vast majority of what we're doing is new workloads, new customers, new use cases on the cloud, which is born in the cloud, new product that has the best capabilities across all categories in data management. The only platform that delivers it all with one log in, one pane of glass, one pricing -- consumption-based pricing model that serves all the multivendor, multicloud and hybrid needs enterprise.

Great. And yes, please talk more about the IDMC platform, and that's intelligent data management cloud for those who are getting up to speed on the story. And what are the kind of the key capabilities there and what makes it unique versus what you see else in the market?

So let's piece part this. So first of all, as we were sitting in 2015, the view I have of the world was that if you play digital transformation out, there will be -- it's not just about growth of data. It'll be that a lot more will be done with data, which means that there will be many more use cases for data management. Remember, in the world prior to that, Informatica was primarily a data integration, ETL company. So we said, of course, data integration will be needed in the world of cloud, but it'll will be ETL, ELT, many other forms, Elastics or what else, app integration, data quality, massive data management and solutions built on top of that one, data catalog, data governance and privacy and data marketplace, which is basically the ability to provision data just like Amazon Marketplace. And by the what y, many of these products we pioneered. Data Catalog, we were the first one to put in the market, so on and so forth. That was the first vision. So that obviously allowed us to build these best-of-breed products from ground up and serve a much bigger TAM. Our TAM in the old, this was about $7 billion, $8 billion, and today, our TAM is up $80-plus-billion. Second was our belief was, look, in any software industry, there is -- if it's very big, multiple platforms, platform vendors gain, obviously, strategic priority. Goal was to build all of them on one platform, one single pane of glass, front end, common back-end, microservices-based, Elastic, open APIs built in open platform. And we powered it with our own AI, CLAIRE, which by the way, GA-ed we in 2018. And this platform, we also said we're going to make it a single pricing model, consumption-based pricing, we call IPU, as Mike said, right? And the third one was that, look, in this world, we are going to basically -- if you want to be multi-cloud multi-vendor, we have to just go out and work with everybody. So deep partnership with AWS, Azure, GCP, Snowflake, Databricks, OCI you name it. And deep partnerships with the GSIs because we knew that transformation projects require complicated work and the GSI like Deloitte, Accenture, TCS, so on and so forth, who, by the way, now have practices built up. So to us, we wanted to go into the market with that vision. And if you look at the journey, new products that we started building in 2015, not everything was in the cloud in 2015, 2016, data was not going to the cloud. The new product ARR, now for folks, very few in the room, if I said in 8 years, how many companies have gone from 0 new product ARR to $1.1 billion that we've guided this year? You're probably count on your fingers that's it. That's what we accomplished. And in that, sits cloud, which is all that we do now. We said even going forward starting this year, we're not even going to go sell any of the new products that are on-prem, only going to do cloud. That's growing at 35% plus growth rate.

And if I can add to that. One of the trade-offs that one might expect if you are a customer and you're thinking about partnering with a platform provider is, am I compromising best-of-breed versus getting the platform, right? So platform lets me do a variety of things with one contract and so forth, but there's always best-of-breed providers out there. Maybe I should cobble those together. One of the things that we spent a lot of time on in our Investor Day, Tuesday, I would encourage you to look at the slides which are available on our website, is that of the seven key categories of data management, all of which are on the platform, in every one of those categories, we have the demonstrably best-of-breed product. We showed you the Forrester Magic Quadrant. We showed you the Gartner Magic Quadrant, data integration, catalog, master data management, data quality. We actually have best-of-breed products and we have it on the industry's only platform.

And speaking of the Analyst Day slides, I think there was 170 of them, so quite a bit that you guys talked to and...

That was on Slide 37.

We can give you the -- which ones you should look at.

Yes, that's -- of course, a big key of that and a big part of that is financial aspects of it, so Mike, you shared some early color on 2024, and you issued new midterm expectations into '26, and I think maybe a little color on '27, as well. Can you recap this? And what are the assumptions baked into that in terms of how do the macro environment improving or -- in terms of more or less migrations? And how should we think about that?

Sure. So before I give you the specifics, I'll reflect a question we got a couple of times today in the meetings, which were great, and thank you for facilitating them as while the stock has gone from $16 to $25, $26, $27. What's changed? What's the inflection point? What's going on in Informatica? And the answer is nothing has changed. We're doing the same thing that we've been doing for the last two years and the guidance that we offered for '24 in the medium-term model isn't an inflection point. It's the trajectory we've been on. It's just becoming more apparent in the numbers and in the appreciation of it out there in the marketplace. So what has been going on? We have three components of our ARR. We have the maintenance base from those PowerCenter licenses that we've been -- we sold 30 years ago and we stopped selling a while ago, and that's a decline business. We have our self-managed subscription ARR, which is basically on-premise that was modern product that was developed in 2015 and beyond, but sold on-prem or in the customer's private cloud. We stopped selling that at the beginning of this year. So that's also a decline business. And then we have the cloud ARR, which is growing 37% over the last four years, and we're growing at 35% growth this year. Two shrinking pieces, 1 piece growing a lot. So understanding our business is all about understanding those 3 pieces. What we offered in terms of 2024 pre-guidance is we'll have another year of 35% cloud ARR growth, which is what we're guiding to this year, and I'll give you some components of the 2. We're going to control, as we have in the past, and we have a lot of detail about what the drivers of that are, the decline of the maintenance business and the self-managed business. We're not selling them anymore, so they're going to decline. We understand that. But it all adds up to inflecting growth in '24. Our total ARR revenue growth has been going down as we've been managing this transition from on-prem to cloud. That declining growth rate stops this year, gets higher in '24, gets higher in '25, gets higher in '26, and beyond. So we're on a growing growth trajectory. We committed to that. We're going to deliver at least 350 basis points of non-GAAP op-inc operating margin improvement next year versus this year. We're going to grow non-GAAP op-inc and unleveraged free cash flow at least a 12% CAGR over the '23 to '26 period, and we're going to grow the cloud ARR over that full 3-year period by 31% to 33% CAGR, 35% next year. What's really important to understand is that, again, that's not an inflection point, that's not a step function. It's just a straight-line continuation of what we've been seeing in our business for the last two years. That 35% is made up of net new growth, both new customers and new workloads, that's in line with our TAM. If you look at our IDC TAM, which we had updated for this session 2 days ago, they say the cloud portion of the data management market is going to grow at about a 27% CAGR through 2027. That's basically what we're assuming will do with the new portion of our cloud growth. And the rest of the 35% is contribution of migration from our on-prem business onto our cloud at a 2:1 uplift, again, which is exactly what we've been saying historically.

Great. And no conversation in 2023 would be complete without talking about AI and, actually, at our analyst roundtable, we made a joke that we should take a sip every time you say AI.

I'd take a sip.

And so you have a CLAIRE Copilot live and CLAIRE GPT and private preview. First, maybe to get investors on the same page, first, what is CLAIRE, that would be helpful. And then what are the tech differences between the 2, the Copilot and GPT? And what has been the early reaction?

Yes. So by the way, the word CLAIRE, when we were -- so we launched CLAIRE. So when we talk about the platform, best to breed products, CLAIRE sits in the middle, powering every product, and we have our amazing 50,000-plus connections. We actually launched our AI CLAIRE in 2018. Informatica world, by the way, to launch, if you go by -- guys, YouTube it, you'll see it. By the way CLAIRE was -- the word came from engineers sitting around the room with me and, like, what does CLAIRE do? It helps our users become clairvoyant. That's how we came to the name CLAIRE. There was no marketing research, we just like that's what you want our users to become, clairvoyant with their data. Now so last couple of years, we've already had CLAIRE embedded in our products. So that's been a very fruitful journey. So when -- and what CLAIRE does is, like, by the way one -- it's not gone with gen AI. We have thousands and thousands of machine learning algorithms. For example -- but most of them are not captive to a company. What you do, photo tagging on Facebook, we took that machine learning algorithms, curated it for data management. We do it for data tagging. What you do, recommendations in the Amazon Marketplace. we do that for recommendation for data sets for the user. So we took all of those machine learning algorithms, and in our lab, curated them for data management. That's what happens today with CLAIRE. Pretty powerful. When gen AI was in front of us, obviously, so our ability to get out there was very rapid. So we have Copilot out, which we GA-ed in May this year at Informatica World. Copilot is like Copilot, basically it sits when you are an IDMC, whether using data integration, app integration, MDM, whatever it is, Copilot is there and it's kind of helping you, telling you what to do -- by the way, giving you, hey, you want to create data pies, this is the best way, recommend way to do it. You do something like, oh, you made a mistake over there. Oh, by the way, you've forgot a thing over here. So it's intelligence and productivity. So Copilot is literally your co-pilot, sitting with you every step of the way. All that it does not do right now is talk to you. Someday it may talk to you too. By the way, the CLAIRE demo I did in 2018 was talking demo. And then we announced the private preview of CLAIRE GPT which, by the way, is in private preview mode, 250-plus customers are using it, giving us constructive feedback, and we'll GA it next year. CLAIRE GPT is a transformation of IDMC where it is a chat interface that sits on top of IDMC. And what it does is that all the things of data management that today you have to do through grunt work as an example, if I may use it, now you can just talk to it. So you can literally chat -- type and say, can you give me the churn analysis of the Western region customers of this, this, this? It understands the lingua franca that this is, oh, get data from here of this type and do quality of this type, blah, blah. It'll go and underline, do that. And if you say, oh, you know what, can you take this data, put it in a Tableau report, after you've done a lot of work. It'll start knowing what to do and convert -- so it's literally -- from a chat interface, you can start doing data management. That's why we're taking CLAIRE GPT, which is a whole new way to do data management. Pretty excited about that, but that's kind of like the whole sense of how we see CLAIRE and what it can do.

Interesting. And there is an idea that gen AI is catalyzing more questions about your data architecture and where you're kind of sitting. And so from your perspective, how do you see the next-generation data state evolving into? And where does Informatica fit in there? And where does your tech advantage sit?

Yes. I mean, absolutely. First of all, let me give you an example. A lot of you who over here or watching this, you guys use Excel, right? Let me ask you, what is the empty Excel Workbook worth? If you open up an Excel empty workbook, does it do anything, for you?

No.

Nothing. Only when you'd put some analysis in it, to put some data in it, do some analysis, get some results, then it becomes of value, right? An empty model doesn't do nothing for you, nothing for you. So if you think about where customers are going and -- which is the conversation you're asking, like, when you think about gen AI use case, first of all, there are -- and I'll give you a very summary view of what you need to do. You want to bring holistic data into a model. Otherwise, you're touching the elephant five different ways, you'll get a different answer because you want to make sure the model gives you a predictive answer to do something completely, whether it's a supply chain thing or a customer campaign or something. Second is pretty obvious quality, c*** in, c*** out. Third one, which kind of sometimes become the first one is governance. How do you govern the whole thing, right? I mean, by the way, we're a small company. That's the first question our Board asks is governance around this. And lastly, we want many users to use all these things, so democratization, which means you want to make sure that the right user at the right place, getting the right access to things. You just can't have a wild west in the enterprise world. All of those things are what, data management. That's what we do today, data integration, app integration, data quality, data governance, mastering. So to us, that's what we call Informatica for gen AI. We are squarely in the middle of all gen AI use cases. And the beauty is the same IDMC platform that customers are using for non-gen AI use cases is right now applicable for gen AI today, tomorrow and the IPUs that they bought from us, they can turn around and start using it for gen AI use cases, so that's a beauty. And the users who have learned how to use IDMC and the GSIs who have learned how to do that can do that tomorrow. That is the first big tailwind, well, we are needed for gen AI use cases. We call it Informatica for gen AI. Second is we also want to bring gen AI capabilities to our products to help our customers. That's where CLAIRE Copilot and CLAIRE GPT come handy. So that as customers are becoming more -- we can use AI within our product to make -- do things easily. That allows us to have a deeper penetration within an enterprise. So that's how we think about it. We're having the dialogue every day, and we see that tailwind behind us.

Got it. Got it. And you've referred to yourself as a Switzerland of data. I think you said 7 or 8 different Magic Quadrant, so how do you see your primary competition?

So primary competition. Look, you have to think of -- I -- we had a slide in the Investor deck and we'll come to that. But I say our primary competition actually is customers doing nothing or just scribbling their way, hand coding and then realizing it doesn't scale. You can look at competition three ways. I mean, the legacy providers whom we kind of don't compete with. On the other end it's a point provider. They are like, okay, I have a data integration, somebody who does data ingestion, somebody who does this, somebody who does that. I have, in data quality, somebody doing that; in MDM, somebody doing this. Somebody does payment, somebody does this in data catalog. And oh, by the way, even in that, people may not do the full use case of it at an enterprise level. So those are our point providers, which is primarily there. But both of them in an enterprise world, we end up not competing with, simpler use cases. In the middle, the question always gets asked, the hyperscalers. Well, look, we kind of don't compete with them, but they have what I call good enough, small, narrow and most of them have connectivity out of the box for their use case. But the reality is that take Barclays. If you go talk to your IT organization, it's a very complex IT department where you have multi-cloud, multi-vendor and you want to, even from ground, manage all on-prem while you're doing the cloud stuff and data is sitting in 500-plus apps, different apps. That's where the beauty and the scale of what we do, and we only focus on data management, which is why we have partnered very closely with them. So there are competitive markers from there. But the reality is that I think ultimately for us, it's just going to go out and make sure we can educate our customers and get in front of them before they waste their time hand coding or scribbling something away and then realizing 12 months later, maybe not the way to go.

Yes. Great. And with the increasing cloud penetration, you are moving to more of a consumption-based model with IPUs. How is that transition going? And how is that impacting customer expansion?

The IPU is -- I think it's a fantastic pricing model that existed prior to me joining the company about a year ago. The IPU is a token, a fungible token that you can use to buy, to consume any of the 33 different products and services that are available on your single log-in, single pane of glass platform. Data ingestion, cloud data catalog, data marketplace. You can spend your IPUs on those. And each IPU -- each service is scaled by a consumption unit like hours of compute or number of assets tracked for catalog and that sort of thing. So it's completely flexible and completely fungible when you buy your first -- when you buy Informatica for your first use case, you might need catalog and quality and some ingestion, right? So three services on, you buy enough IPUs to do that. Once you have that up and running, typically takes less than six months, we showed some data at Investor Day that the average number of services on the platform used by Informatica customers at their 6-month anniversary is 3. Three services used with our IPUs. But the beauty of the IPU is that you always buy a little more than you need, it's kind of like your own cell phone plan. You had more minutes than you thought you would use so you didn't go into overages. You can use those IPUs to just click on the marketplace chicklet , and see how that works and apply it to some of your data and see if it provides value. And if so, just start using it without a new contract with Informatica, without a new commitment level. So you can seamlessly, frictionlessly expand yourself. The data we showed at our Investor Day yesterday was that the average number of services after 18 months is double that. So it's in the data that the flexibility of this pricing model is allowing customers to actually expand once they land beyond their initial use case, not just more usage of what they bought us for in the first place, but they're finding more use cases, more services that they're consuming on the platform. It's working really well and our customers love it because it's simple and it's flexible and allows them to grow with us.

Yes. And it seems like you alluded to it a little bit that it would drive less friction with sales as customers can just expand into the different products there.

For sure, yes. And let me share another statistic. One of the things we shared was that the expansion sales that are actually done by our customer success team. We shared the number in Q3, $4.5 million of new bookings from customers within their term, so not at renewal, because we could see from our telemetry that their IPU utilization rate was over 80% of what they had purchased, we give them a call, say, "Hey, it looks like it's going great, do you need some more?" Or can we suggest and sure enough, that turned into $4.5 million of bookings in one quarter, our NARR for the third quarter was something like $38 million. So it's like a big contributor of people in-term expanding because they found new things to do with the platform.

Interesting. And you've announced some interesting expansions of your partnerships. I'll call out two of them with AWS and Microsoft Fabric. What does that do for you?

Yes. So partnerships, first of all, very important to us. By the way, AWS is our longest-standing partnership. We started with them when they started Redshift back in 2012.

Oh wow.

So when we talk about partnerships, a lot of people think we've been partnering with all of them for a long period of time. So in fact, Mike, in his investor deck, if you see our usage, our customers' usage of -- using our products with AWS has grew 43%. So this is the longest-standing partnership, and it's growing still pretty significantly. And we won North America Data and Analytics Partner of the year award. We won their Design Partner award, we co-innovate with them, which we do with Azure and GCP as well. So obviously, we've now expanded a partnership with them in the context of governance and some of the stuff we're going to do in the context of AI. And by the way, it's such a rich partnership, many more things will happen. Same goes with Azure, by the way, Scott and have known each other for a very long time. In fact he's come to Informatica World more than anybody else on main keynote, and we've done many joint things together, and we've taken a partnership at a whole new level this year that, in fact, at Ignite, which is their conference, the only 2 partners they talked about were Databricks and Informatica. So Fabric, which is the key thing they've launched, we are the design partner with them. All of IDMC is a native experience in Azure, all of IDMC. In the earlier days, we would have this product as a native. We said, like, okay, the whole platform is a native. So if a customer opens Azure, they get the whole slew of IDMC services and they can start using it from there. Of course, we are available in the Marketplace. But the beauty is that native integration that the user experience level makes the design experience much better. And that's what Scott announced, and that's what we talked about. We also talked about our AI partnership with them. We're going to do a lot more in the world of AI with them, stay tuned, not just in the context of what we talk about, many other interesting things that we've talked with them. And those are things that are continuing to grow with them.

Got it. And I wanted to ask the million-dollar question. So all the investors here are trying to figure out where IT budgets are shaking out for next year, and we have a few different forces here. So I've heard ranges of flat to 7% IT budget growth. However, you have all of these gen AI initiatives that all these companies are wanting to invest in. And then we still have kind of an inflationary environment where you have inflation probably eating up a decent amount of that IT budget growth. So when you talk to your clients as they're planning for 2024, what's the data analytics budget shaking out? And then if they're pulling from any areas, where would they be pulling from?

Yes. I think -- see -- I mean, anybody who sits here and predicts IT budget growth rate for a certain percentage number should go out and play, gamble, so I'm not going to go attempt to do that. So the thing I'll tell you and I have -- when I talk to customers, look, I mean, IT budgets are not going to grow just because the rate of gen AI is growing. That's not going to happen. That's just not -- doesn't work. I think what's happening is what I have -- when I talk to customers, there are top 2 or 3 areas where spend is there because what typically happens in IT budget is for us to like, hey, that's your budget. Now you've got to move stuff, stop doing something to do something. For sure, the areas that reach the top 2 are data and analytics and cybersecurity. I have not heard anybody tell me that those are not the 2 priorities. So which means that whether the IT budget for a company is flat or growing 7% the first places where they have to spend, because they are critical to their transformation are those areas. One is an offense, data analytics is always offense. Cybersecurity data has to be more defense. That's the way I look at it. I mean, I've spent a couple of years in Symantec myself. So I think those are the 2 areas. And then it depends upon -- the third will be depending on the company or somebody is going through a massive ERP modernization or migration, there's that, there's the other. But those 2 always make it to the top 2.

Got it. And you've added a lot of products and capabilities over the year, and we've talked about all of them there. Does that drive a need for more sales overlay in specialized sellers that are coming in and providing more expertise? And where are we on that journey?

So yes and no. So what we did, first of all, we had more overlays, because we had a hybrid business model. We had on-prem and the cloud products, so people had to be supporting both of them. And this year, we finished that journey. So in fact, we've simplified our overall org structure and everything to take out things that we kind of don't need because we are only selling cloud. In that, yes, we do. We always have what we call specialists or centers of excellence, because somebody is very uniquely tied to helping educate the CDO on how to set up a data governance organization or somebody knows this particular tech very deeply because it's a new tech right now, like gen AI. Or we have a small Tiger team focused on modernization, because we don't want those [ and tend ] to be longer deals, and we don't the rest to be cycling through everything, so we want velocity. So we always do that. And those things come and go because they'll come for this particular period of time, and then they may go and something else may come by. That's a very natural evolution of the business. That happens all the time. Like, MDM has an as a specialist sales team because we end up talking to the business and IT. And those people are very good at talking to the CMO or the Chief Procurement Officer or the Chief Digital Officer on what the larger business outcome would be, whereas the rest of the team that can work with IT on the speeds and feeds. So those things come and go, but we've simplified our business significantly.

And over the medium term, and including next year, one of the ways why we're -- how we're getting to 350 basis points, at least, of non-GAAP op-inc margin improvement in 2024 is the simplification, the benefits of simplification and streamlining of our business as a cloud-only model with the IPU pricing model. So very few SKUs. Sales and marketing efficiency, customer acquisition costs, magic number, all that sort of stuff, will get better and better over time, and that's how we can commit to 12% plus non-GAAP op-inc growth over that 3-year period, even though revenue growth is going to be accelerating from x today to double digits in '26 and '27.

Great. And can you speak to the stickiness of the Informatica platform, what you're seeing in terms of trends of retention? A lot of companies, especially in the SMB side of things, I know you play up a little higher, are seeing some pressures down there. But how should -- and then kind of separately, how should we think about the growth mix between new and existing customers when you when you're thinking about your long-term or medium-term framework that you laid out?

I'll take the first and you'll take second, Mike? So I think -- think of it this way, that -- and I'll piece it into 3 parts. First of all, we serve the enterprise, right? We don't go to SMB. And by the way, I mean, we talk about in every earnings call, we give our gross retention and we also take our net retention and our gross retention, I'll put it this way. Take -- one of the things we know, we build the best products. We serve mission-critical workflows. So when a customer has bought from us, they don't buy from us on whim and fancy, I'll figure it out, because they need to invest people, resources to make that happen. It's always a committed project. And because we have the best products when they implement us, we're sticking. And in the old days, the maintenance world, it was mid-90s, renewal rates, didn't budge, because it's very well groomed. And in the new days, subscription gross retention rate we talk about, which is low 90s, and in that, there is cloud and self-managed. Self-managed is less, cloud is higher. So read-my-lips cloud is where it is. And by the way, cloud ASPs are higher than self-managed any ways already, so that's the way to think about it. And the reason for that is because we also, not only have the best products. We, really, in the new world, focus a lot on customer success. So the moment we sell, our customer success team is all over the customer for business value creation. Sometimes the customer tell us, "Give me 3 months to get my ducks in a row." I got you, no risk, but our guys are comped on -- not -- can the customer get business value? Because we just know once first project happens, we're sticky for life. And then, of course, from there, the beauty of the platform and IPU becomes that we can always cross-sell upsell. Hey, can you -- you were doing a simple ELT into a Snowflake. Now you want to go add some data quality to it? Yes. Yes, of course. Do you want to do some cataloging as well? Yes, of course. We're tracking all that stuff. And, oh, by the way, a rep can go in and say, now you did all this stuff, what about the next big digital transformation project on figuring out your customer 360? So those are the kind of intrinsics we see, and we are very fortunate to have the best products, a very sticky platform with IPU pricing and really reinventing our go-to-market and customer success to drive value for the customers, and we see that in gross retention rate and net retention rate.

Let me give you specific numbers about how much of that growth is new customers versus existing customers. So again, to get back about the split that we talked about 2 days ago, of our 37 percentage points of cloud growth over the last 12 months, 30 percentage points of that was from net new, either new workloads and use cases from existing customers or brand-new customers to Informatica. Of that, 38% of it was brand-new customers. So of our total growth, including the migration growth, about 1/3 of it was from brand new logos. So we think it's a really healthy mix of expansion in our existing base on the cloud, but not -- a migration of people from maintenance to cloud, but a lot of new people coming in that are brand new to us, choosing us in the marketplace over all the other point providers and the other options that are out there.

Well, great. I think that's a good point to end here. Amit, Mike, thank you so much for joining me.

Thank you, very much. Appreciate it.