Ingevity Corporation (NGVT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome to the Urethanes Technology International webinar, which is sponsored and presented by Ingevity. My name is James Snodgrass, and I am the editor of Urethanes Technology International. And I'm very pleased to welcome to host this webinar today, Ingevity's Technical Market Development Manager, Scott Phillips. But just before we begin, just a little bit of housekeeping. The format of the webinar is, Scott is going to be giving a presentation with slides, and at the end of the presentation, there will be a Q&A session. So if you have any questions whatsoever that you'd like to ask to Scott, we will go through them and ask them at the end of the session. If you go down or up, depending on where your tool bar is in Zoom, you'll see a little box named Q&A, and that is where you put in your questions. Now, all that is left for me to do is to say, good morning, good afternoon or good evening, wherever you may be, and look forward to his presentation, Capa LT pushing the boundaries of low-temperature PU performance. And over to you, Scott.

Thank you very much, James, for the introduction. It's great to have a chance to speak to you all today. The topic of the webinar today is Ingevity's latest new product offering for premium polyurethane applications. Following on from our successful launch of the Capa S series,, it's my pleasure to announce the launch of Capa LT designed for ultimate low temperature performance. I'll begin the webinar by introducing Ingevity, the global leader in polycaprolactone technology, and by giving a brief corporate overview, including our vision and what guides our new developments. I will then move on to introduce Capa technology in more detail. And while you can rely on the flexibility and performance of Capa to push boundries and give you as polyurethane producers an edge in the competitive marketplace. We'll open the base for Ingevity, and I'll spend some time showing the advances that we've made in recent years that allow us to bring for new products, like the one we will discuss today. The main part of the webinar will then concentrate on how we are pushing the boundaries of low temperature polyurethane performance with Capa LT technology. I'll run things off by summarizing and setting you on your way with the key messages, hopefully, having convinced you that Capa LT is a must-have product for anyone serious about pushing the boundaries of polyurethane performance. So I'll start things off by introducing Ingevity as a company. Historically, Ingevity was the chemical division of pulp and paper producer in MeadWestvaco, and was spun out of that business in 2016 as an independent specialty chemical business, and subsequently listed on the New York Stock Exchange. Today, Ingevity has over 2,000 employees operating out of 31 locations, including 40 manufacturing sites and 7 technical centers. Turnover in 2021, the latest published numbers was $1.4 billion. The caprolactone business, known by the trademark Capa, was acquired by Ingevity from Perstorp at the beginning of 2019. As I put note to this slide, we're very proud to say that we have recently been awarded the gold rating from EcoVadis for corporate sustainability. The company's mission is to purify, protect and enhance the world around us. Ingevity products play a leading role in a vast range of endless use applications, as illustrated in this slide. Perhaps, the most [indiscernible] to us on the call today is the use of Capa polyols in TPU, paint protection films, or industrial coatings, as shown here and here. These really -- these truly protect and enhance our lives. Other Ingevity products, however, have a big contribution. For example, Nuchar is a proprietary technology that captures gasoline vapor emissions from automotive vehicles, preventing their escape in the environment and reducing the wastage of fuel. Not only is air pollution being minimized, fuel efficiency has drastically improved. Ingevity's Evotherm technology, meanwhile means our roads last longer and our newest offering even allowed for recycled asphalt to be used in greater amounts. These are just a few examples of the types of products Ingevity produced to purify, protect and enhance. The next slide gives a little more insight into the divisions that make up Ingevity Corporation. We are active in diverse markets with the common factor being that we occupy a leading position in each. The caprolactone business sits within engineered polymers business unit, and is the market leader for this technology with a range of end applications in both polyurethane and thermoplastic technologies. The business fits the corporation sustainability credentials by allowing [ boosted ] production of highly durable end materials, thus limiting wastage of precious carbon feedstocks and giving positive end-of-life performance by biodegrading rapidly in the right environmental conditions. If we look at engineered polymers business unit in a -- in more detail, we can see that it's split into 3 product streams. Capa Monomer is the base material for our differentiated products, but also finds value in resin modification, either to enhance mechanical performance or improve the compatibility of polymeric materials. The Capa polyol product stream is the focus of our discussion today, particularly within the lens of polyurethane elastomers. But on a high level, these products are almost exclusively used as a chemical intermediate for the production of high-performing polyurethane elastomers. [ As ] the PU is being used as an adhesive coating or ceiling, Capa brings value. I will [ stroll ] further discussions today, but still extremely interesting versatile materials are Capa thermoplastic. These are low melting point products that have both home and industrial composting certification, and are phenomenal properties increasing the biodegradation rate and [ lot of ] properties, particularly flexibility of biopolymers such as PLA. Capa polyols are not just [ indicate sort of ] any of polyurethanes, they occupy a privileged place within the market as they allow the production of some of the most highest performing elastic materials. These polyols are produced using ring-opening polymerization, a significantly different chemical process compared to that used to produce other polyester polyols, which allows the end products to make extremely high-quality specifications. We have all the benefits of polyester technology application, so good mechanical properties, abrasion resistance and UV stability, for instance, but can combine this with considerably enhanced durability, particularly in the face of challenging environmental conditions. You get elastomer that, not only performs well on day 1, but for days, weeks and months afterwards, no matter what the environment throws out. The next slide shows the main [ competing ] technologies. Polyester polyols are regarded as giving polyurethane's good mechanical performance, but are limited by their susceptibility to hydrolytic degradation and [ engineerability ] is often poor. On the other hand, PTMEG is stable in the presence of moisture, but lacks mechanical properties and resistance to UV degradation. Polycarbonate is a high-performing polyol, but applications are limited by its high viscosity, and therefore, challenges in processing. Capa polyols are used from the -- to be no compromise on processing ease, mechanical performance and durability. We're very open to -- and to admit there still might be some performance characteristics that can't quite be achieved with Capa technology yet. However, the flexibility of the technology allows Ingevity to innovate and produce tailored new offerings, one of which we'll launch today. There's not much that can't be achieved using this technology. Innovation is extremely important to Ingevity and is fundamental to what we do. We have been -- recently invested around $5 million in state-of-the-art innovation facilities and equipment in the U.K., which will be officially open this year. An extended team is now equipped to deliver new products in each of our focused market segments, polyurethane elastomers, adhesives, coatings and bioplastics, as well as building R&D capabilities to optimize and develop processes fit for the sustainable future we see. So -- and you can see our new innovation building in the top right-hand corner of this slide, on a very nice sunny day in the northwest of England, which is very rare, I can assure you. And some examples of the equipment that makes up our application development labs so intense -- or -- our characterization of elastomeric materials. We've got micro compounders and injection molders to look at the process and of the materials downstream. We'll speak a lot about DNA today, and this is recently installed [ tip ]. And the flex fatigue test, and our flex fatigue is somewhere where Capa brings big benefits on elastomers, and perhaps a discussion for another webinar. Now we get to the main thrust of our discussions today. Note that our whole audience is aware of the versatility and benefit of polyurethane technology in a wide array of end applications, we're indeed fortunate to work with the technology that lends itself to innovation and pushing the boundaries of what's possible. We see a market demand, for full year things are not just high performing, but high performing whatever the weather. Pushing performance at low temperatures where elastomers typically transition from being a rubber-like material to a brittle glass is an important target. When it comes to low temperature performance, urethanes based on PTMEG are often regarded as the optimal solution. The linear chain of the polyol chains and [ bridge free ] phase separation of the urethane means that little energy is required to induce chain mobility within the soft segment, allowing the transition from a glass to a rubber at low temperature. PTMEG has its weaknesses though, particularly with regard to high-commercial performance and UV stability, and has suffered in recent times with poor availability and high pricing. So this has led to formulators looking for viable high-performing alternatives. As I tried to show in the presentation on this slide, there's also plenty of space to develop polyurethanes materials, so they become competitive with alternative technologies to PU when it comes to performance with a low and high temperature. So this is what we're going after with this new technology. And this is what we are -- hope to allow our customers to achieve. Capa polycaprolactone technology is the perfect platform for developing new products that address these challenges. The unique manufacturing technology means that the possibilities for new product development is almost limitless. Initiators and monomers can be interchanged to design new products with specific performance characteristics, all whilst maintaining the high-quality features of Capa product. Our growing knowledge of structured property relationships developed by our applications team at Ingevity, allows a rational approach to develop new products that needs to be brought to market quickly, often within 18 months. So we can see the chemical scheme for producing polycaprolactones. And I'm highlighting here the initiator. So this is where the flexibility comes into the system. The initiator can be a variety of chemistries as long as there's some sort of reactive functionality that can open the cyclic caprolactone monomer ring. Because this process can be carried out using fairly mild conditions, there's no acids involved. Then the polydispersity, the range of molecular weights of the polyol chain can be kept very narrow, and this gives great downstream benefits when it comes to polyurethane performance. Because of this clean process as well, there's very little water, acid or catalytic residues left in the product. So the durability is enhanced. There's nothing that will act to degrade the end product. So it gives me great pleasure to announce the launch of Capa LT3, the first product in our series for low temperature polyurethane performance. Capa LT3 a 3,000 molecular weight linear diol that has been shown to increase the operating window of polyurethanes by up to 25 degrees celsius at low temperature. This is based on the extent to which tan delta remains at a low 0.1 and constant in a DMA experiment. The remainder of this presentation, we'll look at this whole claim in more detail and convince you of the scientific evidence behind these claims and why polyurethane producers need this new product. So what we're proposing is a new polyol product with not only extended low temperature capabilities, but the all-round performance that you'd expect from Capa. This will allow our customers to -- polyurethane producers to gain their competitive edge in valuable markets, such as this example of some specialist winter footwear. This will also reduce dependency on PTMEG and allow polyurethane to substitute alternative polyol technologies. The benefits of this technology brings, should be obvious, a number of high-value markets. The ability to operate at low temperatures and maintain that robust performance of a range of temperature is weighed on applications from transportation to aerospace and specialist footwear to industrial machinery. It wants to track all PU parts to become brittle and feel on a [Vinris ] data. Polyurethane steels, for example, are critical to the operation of equipment, both as a start-up and throughout the day, whether the equipment is located in Siberia or Texas. Any deviation from optimum viscoelastic performance can lead to operational downtime and diminished output. So I hope this slide gives you some ideas and ignites your imagination when it comes to the possibilities for this new product. This slide gives further details about the new product that we've launched. Like all Capa products, Capa LT3 is of very high quality. It has extremely low acid value and water content specification. This allows the -- allows these very high-quality polyurethane products to be produced. Relative to competitive polyols of similar molecular weight, the viscosity is very low, opening up the technology to a range of applications. In the next 2 slides, I'll discuss our approach to new product design for low temperature performance. DSC is the most obvious first choice to discern the characteristics of a material in response to change in temperature. The DSC shows a temperature at which the urethane transitions from a brittle glass light material to a flexi rubbery elastomer known as the glass transition temperature. In this general DSC trace, you can see the glass transition temperature at around [ minus 40 ] degrees celsius. Shifting this glass transition temperature to even lower temperature is an important tactic, although not the only one when target elastomer that performs equivalently at both low and higher temperatures. Melting events that occur in the working temperature range of the urethane are also important. You can see this example of the polyol soft segment reserved at around 70 degrees C. Crystalline in the soft segment can lead to very impressed mechanical properties, for instance, strain hardening, but can also get changes in performance if melting occurs in the working temperature range. So you keep an eye on this as well as the Tg. Finally, the DSC trace shows the hard segment melting around 200 degrees C. A well-defined hard segment melting event tells us the good phase separation exists and polyol change are unencumbered by interactions with the hard segment, thus it can move freely. So what we want really when we look at the DSC is to move the glass transition temperature as low as possible, minimize the disruption in -- from melting events in the working temperature range, and have a very distinct glass transition temperature. But this is only a start really to analyze materials when it comes to low temperature performance. Dynamic Mechanical Analysis, or DMA, is another approach, and it's much more sensitive -- and a much more sensitive indication of low-temperature mechanical performance. Rather than just a measurement on a static sample like in DSC, DMA shows the change in mechanical performance of a sample with change in temperature. Although a tricky concept, the output from this analysis, the storage modulus, loss modulus and tan delta can be visualized using events involved, but involve having a certain amount of potential energies [ bost ]. The [ bost ] can be described as E-prime or storage modulus. This corresponds to the amount of potential energy returned as an elastic response and is a measure of the elastic component of a viscoelastic material. Energy which has not been returned in the form of elastic response is considered to be lost in the elastomer's heat through viscous flow and as described as E-double-primed, the loss modulus. I'll speak quite a lot about tan delta in this presentation. Tan delta is a value indicator which shows the relative amount of viscous behavior to elastic behavior in a given system, is key in defining the economic mechanical properties. So if we look at real DMA output, so the tan delta for a real system, shown by the purple graph here, we can see that the peak tan delta here corresponds to the glass transition. And as we move to higher temperatures, we reach a rubbery plateau, so the region in which viscoelastic performance is optimal. As we go to even higher temperatures in the -- where the material begins to degrade or melt, then we see the tan delta coming higher. High performing elastomer systems are generally regarded as having a tan delta well below 0.1, which is constant over the operating range of the material in question. In order to boost low temperature performance, we also maintain the [indiscernible] about the performance of the material. It's desirable to have as low and narrower glass transition as possible and ensure the stability of tan delta to high temperature. So we want the tan delta to be very flat in this region with very little bumps in the road, so to speak. The target of our work has been to design new polyols to extend the rubbery plateau to its maximum extent so it is low as temperature as possible, while keeping all the other properties, for instance, high temperature performance, the same. So now for the data to support our claims. Although the polyurethane data that I'll present in the subsequent slides are based on the formulations provided in this table, samples were prepared using a conventional hot cast elastomer production method, so via a prepolymer and a laboratory scale. We've formulated to give an approximately 80 Shore D elastomer and the relative amounts of MDI and [ Gen X ] -- and have been adjusted to maintain a constant hard segment composition. So obviously, we're using different molecular weight polyols. So we need to adjust to make sure that the hard segments --hard segment remains constant, and therefore, we're comparing apples with apples. The benchmarks that we've used are our 2,000 molecular weight polycaprolactone and a 3,000 molecular weight PTMEG. A look at the initial mechanical properties show that Capa LT3 achieved similar performance to the premium benchmarks. Despite essentially being a polycaprolactone, Capa LT3 shows impressive results in compressions, I imagine you can see in the column 3 here, on par with PTMEG. This isn't altogether a surprise and since the structural changes we've made to increase -- change and delay the low temperature, also allows the polymer chains to be back in the position after a compressive deformation. You also noticed some striking benefits of Capa LT3 over a traditional PCL when it comes to rebound resilience, so 59 approaching 60 compared to 50. Ultimately, Capa LT3 has been designed for low temperature performance. Next, we look at the DSC of the polyols themselves. I've included another benchmark here, a 3,000 electric PTMEG. To demonstrate the performance of Capa LT3 is not just a reflection of increased molecular weight. The DSC of the -- traces of the polyols themselves show us 2 key things. Firstly, the glass transition of Capa LT3 is significantly lower than 2,000 molecular weight PCL and approaching that of PTMEG. But secondly, as we mentioned before, the melting entropy is very important to make sure the performance in the rubbery plateau is similar to that low temperature extremes. The melting entropy is reduced significantly for Capa LT3 compared to the -- to PTMEG. So just to recap, this is important as melting events can alter the performance around the temperature which occur, meaning, performance isn't constant across the working range of temperatures. Capa LT rate give the optimal balance of low glass transition temperature and melting entropy. The next slide shows how this translate into the thermal properties of the polyurethanes themselves. We see the same trend in glass transition temperature, as we did from the polyols, with Capa LT3 significantly outperforming polycaprolactone homopolymers. So you can see the bottom trace, which is Capa LT3, at a significantly lower Tg than the pure polycaprolactone. 3,000 PTMEG, the trace here, does indeed give a much lower glass transition, but the melting event around ambient temperature gives us big challenges. You can see this just to a certain extent in 2,000 PTMEG as well. So we've got changes that happen around the working temperature of the polyurethane, that will give us some issues. Our proposal is that CAPA LT3 gives the optimal balance of low glass transition temperature, low soft segment entropy and most pronounced hard segment. The next slides on DMA should convince you of the benefit of -- benefits of this in terms of mechanical performance. So keep in mind, the DSC trace is when we look at the DMA and the effect of the melting events on the dynamic mechanical performance. As we've spoken about, DMA is indicator of the mechanical performance with respect to temperature. For simplicity, I've just shown the tan delta graphs, so the ratio of loss modulus to storage modulus. We can see an ambient temperature tan delta as well below 0.1, and all materials are therefore exceptional viscoelastic materials. As you would expect, the 2,000 molecular weight PCL, the orange trace, has the highest glass transition temperature. In this measure, Capa LT3, the blue trace, actually has an improved Tg relative to 2,000 molecular weight PTMEG in yellow. You can see here -- although they're very similar. The 3,000 molecular weight PTMEG in purple pushes the Tg versus slightly higher. If we simply look at the Tg, however, we may draw the wrong conclusions when it comes to the low temperature performance. 3,000 molecular weight PTMEG show us the lowest Tg, but the glass transition is very broad due to the apparent crystalline indicated in the DSC studies. So the optimal viscoelastic performance is not achieved until well above 0 degrees celsius. The 2,000 electric PTMEG similarly has a shoulder on the glass transition, as you can see here. The Capa LT3 has been designed to have narrow glass transition, which allows optimal viscoelastic performance to be achieved at much lower temperature. So you can see the point in which tan delta becomes below 0.1, has moved to a much lower temperature. This is the basis of our strong claim that Capa LT3 can extend the operating window where optimal viscoelastic performance of our polyurethane material is achieved by up to 25 degrees C of low temperature. It's pretty clear in this graph the point at which the tan delta becomes less than 0.1 has been shifted very significantly to lower temperatures with Capa LT3, and versus all the benchmarks, this is definitely the highest performance system. These data show the benefit of one formulation. Larger gains should be possible with savvy choice of [ high societies] and other components. We've done our partners in Ingevity -- the polyol manufacturer to optimize the structure of the polyol to give the best chance of obtaining a low-temperature polyurethane. But it allows our customers to innovate as well. You can push this further by correct and by optimal formulation. If we clean the graph up a little bit just to show Capa LT3 versus the highest performing benchmark, PTMEG 2,000, the benefit is clear. The rubbery plateau is flat and constant for a wide temperature range. So what does this do to the operating window for the polyurethane? This is a representation. The orange box here shows PTMEG where PTMEG is performing as a high-performing viscoelastic material. This is what switching to Capa LT3 does in this one particular formulation. Both the high and low, but particularly at low temperatures, the range of the operating window is extended. So by now, I hope to have convinced you that our new product offering has immense value and low temperature performance, and in fact, throughout the common working temperatures of polyurethane materials. And I want to spend a little bit of time tackling one of the main perceived disadvantages of using Capa products compared with PTMEG. Since Capa products are essentially esters, they contain ester bonds that are somewhat prone to degradation by hydrolysis. Ingevity developed a new technology which has made great strides in improving hydrolytic stability of polycaprolactones in a sustainable manner. [indiscernible] 80 degrees C for up to 10 weeks, polyurethane articles made by Capa LT3 showed no degradation of the polyurethane samples. This is quite astonishing. People familiar with the technology know that polyesters are very adept to degrading through hydrolysis. Capa LT3 is a polycaprolactone-based product and is maintaining the mechanical properties. We would argue based on this data to a greater extent than PTMEG. So Capa LT3 combines low temperature performance and durability. Finally, I want to say a few words on process and the new product. A key feature of polycaprolactone technology is process and ease, and we use this our -- to our advantage to obtain the great performance features that we've discussed. So going back to where we start. One of the key parts of the technology is the -- is from the manufacturing given this narrow polydispersity. This leads to polycaprolactone to be on a much lower viscosity than a compound or material -- material or compound of molecular weight, say made by a polyester adipate or PTMEG. So we've used this to design this product. The process and ease of Capa products facilitates the use of 3,000 molecular weight products in formulations where 2,000 molecular weight products are more typically used. Capa LT3 is considerably less viscous than competitive products of the same molecular weight and has no issues when cast in articles. The population are very manageable, and we would anticipate this technology will allow the production of both large and intricate polyurethane articles. Because the products are [ tan made ] with prime hydroxyl groups in a similar manner to all Capa products, reactivity is not an issue, and so we expect no problems in TPU production by continuous extrusion. So what I'm trying to say is, there's no issues not to take your hands on these products. Please get in touch with us and request a sample and give this a go in your lab. What we can do in very simple benchmark formulations like this, can only be magnified by the polyurethane experts themselves, pushing the boundaries of performance even further. So in summary, Capa LT3 has been launched, a new polyol that not only gives polyurethane with a very low Tg, it allows such materials to achieve optimal performance at much lower temperatures. We have shown that the operating windows of polyurethanes can be extended by up to 25 degrees celsius at low temperature. New product combines low temperature performance with excellent hydrolytic stability rivaling that of polyethers. And since UV stability is inherent with polycaprolactone technology, this is an additional benefit. Capa LT3 is a high-performance alternative to materials that currently suffer from poor availability and fluctuating market prices. So all that leads me to now is let you know that samples of Capa LT3 are available for your evaluation. Please contact me directly or through your Ingevity salesperson or distributor rep and we'll get this organized for you. Thank you very much for your attention and to Urethanes Technology for hosting the event. I hope you all have a great evening.

Thank you very much, Scott. That was very interesting. I hope that all the participants found it interesting. We've got some questions coming in. And if you got any more questions, don't forget to type them in. But I'll start off.

We have one question. The hydrolytic stability is impressive. How do you explain this performance?

It's just quite tricky in a forum like this to be precise about what we've done. This is a proprietary technology. But it's been an ongoing effort in the last number of years to find alternative ways of improving hydrolytic stability of esters. And I think we've found the -- a great solution, which we can achieve in this industry benchmark tests. So 10 weeks, 8 degrees C, I think is quite a harsh test. Our customers tell us this is as close to a standard as you can get -- that a new technology achieves that. But I'd love to get it into your hands and your lab to show that you could -- you see the same as what we have in our lab.

I was going to ask a stupid question coming as a journalist who is quite new to polyurethanes, though with some years working in the thermoplastic sector. And I was going to ask, so we are talking about making TPU here, but we actually have a -- question because when I was here in glass transition and melting and these were based on like thermoplastic stuff. So we've got a question here from Ryan Lynn. How is the blooming performance of TPU sample made from LT3?

So we've only looked at the production of hot cast elastomer systems with this new product. I would anticipate any challenges when it comes to blooming. But again, I think we need to demonstrate the -- we need to demonstrate in that location. And we're fully equipped to provide larger samples for use on a continuous TPU line. We can provide drum quantities of material for evaluation. So let's answer that question together.

And here's a very hot topic given the deadline for reach training. So what is the reach status?

Okay. So there's no issues when it comes to reach raw materials or [ reach ]. We've got the ability to produce. And the product meets polymer -- the polymer definition contains all the monomers are on the [ union ] list. So there's no challenges under our current reach regulations. Obviously, there's always discussion of what's going to be happening with reach next when it comes to polymers. But at the current time, there's no challenges.

Another question. What is the melt temperature of Capa LT3? And how does that compare with PTMEG 2,000?

I haven't got the start -- the data in front of me. The melt temperature is a little bit lower than what you'd expect for a polycaprolactone. So polycaprolactones usually come in between 50 and 60 degrees C. I think you're looking at little bit lower for LT3 so 40 to 50, in a very similar range to where you'd expect PTMEG.

And here's another question. How about other seasonal applications using Capa LT3? Could it be used as a wind turbine topcoat because of its low temperature flexibility?

When it comes to coatings, applications, I think the -- without being a coatings expert, I think it would be limited to polyurethane dispersions. And certainly, I would expect the performance in the full year in dispersion to be -- to get the same performance features as we've discussed today.

And -- what is the MW distribution difference between Capa LT3 and PTMEG 3000?

When it comes -- this is a good question that we're about to do -- we keep asking ourselves. The molecular weight distribution of PTMEG tends to be dependent on the supplier. We find products with different molecular weight distributions. Distribution of Capa LT3 is more similar to what you'd expect for a polycaprolactone, around about 1.5.

Now I've got a very specific question, which seems really for someone's particular application. So I think that's something we could possibly answer after the presentation. Here's another question. What is the cost comparison of Capa LT3 versus PTMEG? Is that something you can answer?

PTMEG prices, as anyone who's really worked with the material, have been fluctuating greatly over the last 2 to 3 years. I believe in regions and may be coming back down closer to normal. What I would say regarding the price of the Capa LT3 is that it is a new product and regarded as a premium product compared to our caprolactone range. We are positioned as a premium product. But if you want these features, these -- if you want to push the boundaries of polyurethane in performance, have that competitive edge of something that's going to be durable, so you get the value for the investment in the product and you'll need to look at this [indiscernible].

And another question. Do you have any chemical resistance data?

Overall, we're always building up the data on these systems. At this moment in time, the chemical resistance data isn't something that we have -- generate but we -- it's a new product. We're building up our knowledge, our data all the time.

And how does the performance of Capa LT3 compare to your Capa 7201A or 7301A?

So Capa 7201A -- this is a premium version of Capa 7201A. What we feel with 7201A is that there is good low temperature performance compared to a standard polycaprolactone approaching that of PTMEG, but not to the same extent as you've seen today in the presentation. And what was the other product?

I have to go back to the question. It was the 7201A and 7301A.

We don't currently offer 7301A. So I can't comment on that one.

One more question in. Does it make sense to use with PTMEG? Are they compatible? Well, I think Capa LT3 improve performance properties of PTMEG 2,000.

As a rule, we recommend using Capa products as a -- as the only soft segment component. That's when you can truly get the full benefits of the technology. Not specific to this work, but going back to the other product that you mentioned, Capa 7201A. It's a really interesting product and is a -- in that -- it's a combination of PCL and PTMEG. And you actually find that the copolymer, the one product, which has both parts to it, performs a lot better than the individual components. So we -- in that particular technology, we see the -- I have never seen one polymer and the one polyol has a lot of advantages. So I would -- I think that's a long way of saying that we haven't got any data on that, but I would fully expect a single product -- a single polyol product would give the optimal performance.

I've got a couple more questions. When will samples be available? And are they available in drum quantities?

So samples are available today on 1, 2 and 5 kilograms scale which should allow hot casters to do some work in the lab. And this -- when it comes to drum scale, we have got some material available to support TPU producers, they need that larger quantity. However, what I would say is, for the larger quantities, we invested in that material for the market. We need some indication of projects that are well-defined, perhaps with a business case, work closely with us, and we can supply the material on the scale that you need to further your developments.

I think this will be the last question now. As I said, there are a couple of questions, which I think are very specific use applications, which you might be able to discuss and get with the -- get in touch with the question afterwards. But the last question is, what isocyanate index have you used in these formulations?

So we've used the 103 isocyanate index, so 97% [indiscernible]. The reason for that is we like our data to be general enough to be used by a TPU producer of hot cast elastomer. So we regard 103 is still being thermoplastic but with a little bit of cross-linking in there that could make it more like a [indiscernible] link between thermoplastic and a thermal state. I think we -- in all our formulations, we try to be very general to give enough information that any of our customers in current markets can find it beneficial. I should go back to my original sort of point that we can do as much as we can with the polyol structure. We believe that we push this as far as we can. But we need to -- there are so many ways that our downstream partners can develop this even further in their application.

Excellent, Scott. Well, thanks to everybody who's taken part in this Urethanes Technology International webinar, which has been sponsored and presented by Ingevity. So absolutely great work, Scott, and thanks to the audience for paying attention and asking all these interesting questions. And I say, thank you very much. And thank you, Scott.

Thanks very much.