Insulet Corporation (PODD) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon. Thanks, everybody, for joining us for a fireside chat session here at the UBS Global Virtual Healthcare Conference. I'm Matt Taylor, the U.S. medical supplies and devices analyst for UBS. And I'm really pleased to be joined by management from the Insulet Corporation. Today, we have a few members of the management team, including Wayde McMillan, who's the EVP and Chief Financial Officer and Treasurer of the company. We also got Bret Christensen, EVP and Chief Commercial Officer. And Deb Gordon, VP and Head of the Investor Relations function. So thanks, everybody, for joining us today. So a couple of points on this session. We're going to have a 40-minute fireside chat. If you have any questions, you want me to ask, just send them to me via e-mail or through the webcast, if I'm not hitting on anything you want to cover.

And just to get started, Wayde, I'll kick it over to you and ask you a high-level question. Looking at the results in the second half of last year, first part of this year pre-COVID, even with COVID, really, you had strong growth. So you're seeing a lot of momentum in the business. I was hoping you could just give us an overview of the trends, the fundamentals and the product proof points that are driving that. Maybe we'll start there and start to drill down from that point.

Yes, Matt. And hello, everybody. Good afternoon. And Matt, it's good to talk with you. Usually, we see you a couple of times this time of year at your conference and then at ADA. And it's a new world we have here in the virtual world, but it's still been effective, and it's nice to connect with you and others here on the phone. Yes, so one important piece of our business that we really stressed in our Q1 earnings call was the durability of our model. And we wanted to make sure that people understood what that meant. And as you said, we had great growth and momentum in the second half of 2019, accelerating growth quarter-on-quarter into Q1. And as you can see in our guidance, we plan for a strong Q2 growth as well. The important thing for us was to make sure everybody understood the role that new patient starts played in our growth. And so we shared on the call that new patient starts contribute about 10% of revenue growth in any given quarter and that we were still going to have good growth from the continued momentum from Q1 into Q2. But that if we saw a persistence of the pandemic and impact on our business and had a couple of quarters of new patient starts, it would start to compound and be a headwind for our growth rate into the second half of the year. And so we wanted to make sure that, number one, people understood that durability and how that would roll into the second half of the year as well as put a stake in the ground to make sure that people understood the key metrics that drove the business. And then we can speak to that going forward, whether it's positive or negative from there. And the important piece is really just making sure people understood how the business worked. And so from that standpoint, we are anticipating a continued headwind through the second half of the year. The biggest issue really is customers' ability to meet with their physicians and gain access to the therapy. We saw a pretty drop-off in that at the end of the first quarter with the lockdowns and people unable to reach their physicians. And so we are starting to see that start to open up again as clinics are starting to open, both in the U.S. and outside the U.S. Patients will start to get back to a normal or a new normal with telehealth and, actually, that may be one of the bright spots that has happened through this, I think people have become more comfortable both physicians and customers had become more comfortable with the use of technology. And we feel very well positioned in that marketplace given our form factor. And we can certainly touch on any of those points, you'd like Matt, but hopefully, that's what you were looking for.

Yes. That's a great start. So let's go into a few of those a little bit more deeply. One of the things -- and this will be sort of a 2-part question and I'll weave in is that you are one of the few companies that were actually able to give guidance because of the momentum that you had and the nature of your business, where it's highly dependent on folks that have come on therapy and continue to use it. So I guess I wanted to talk a little bit about that dynamic, how you're able to use the trends to forecast? And what you're looking for as we go through the year here in terms of new starts, physician offices opening. What are the key factors that you're looking at to be able to better forecast and plan for your business?

Yes. I'm glad you asked this one. And I'm sure Bret will weigh in as well. I can start it here and hand it over to Bret. It was an important decision for us, obviously, to get guidance out. And as I mentioned, we have a very durable model, strong growth in Q1 and guiding to strong growth in Q2. And then as you mentioned, new patient starts is the biggest factor that we're monitoring because that could have the most acute impact in the short term. And as I mentioned earlier, a lot of momentum coming into the quarter. And we're anticipating that we'll have headwinds from new patient starts. What we guided to was a 50% to 75% range for a reduction in new patient starts in Q2. And we think that will be at the low end of the range in the U.S., given the market and access to endocrinologists and their customers' interactions in the U.S., we think will be at the lesser end of the 50% to 75%. And then OUS will be at the higher end at near the 75%. And it's just a different dynamic OUS, where a lot of the endocrinologists are part of hospital systems. And within in the hospital setting, and it's just more challenging to meet with their endocrinologists in a lot of cases outside the U.S. And so we looked at the macro factors and decided that we would try to match our new patient starts, ramp up with the gradual opening of economies around the globe. And so we decided for Q3, we would put it at 50% of regular new patient starts and Q4 at 25% of regular new patient starts. And with the expectation then as we gradually improve through the end of the year, when we start out 2021, we'll be back to normal or a new normal. And maybe this is a good place for me to hand it off to Bret because we do believe in a new normal world. Telehealth will play a bigger role, and we believe we're really well positioned for telehealth.

Yes. Thanks, Wayde. It's Bret. Outside of the external factors, the markets, the economy, we're going to watch to see how well we do and how well physicians do sort of adapting to this new telemedicine and telehealth world, until it does open up to become more like it was pre-COVID. Some of the things we're doing is we're doing a really good job facilitating the way physicians communicate to patients. We've provided a lot of virtual tools that are really easily transferred to patients to get them comfortable with starting on a product like Omnipod. We're also doing a good job with training, so virtual trainings are happening here in the U.S. They're also happening in every country outside of the U.S. And so the better we get at that, the more comfortable we get with physicians to continue to write and prescribe Omnipod in this new virtual world, the better off we'll be.

Got it. Yes. Maybe we could stay on that point for a second. I was curious and I think investors are, about the steps that telehealth plays in the way that basically the customer goes from kind of setting up to get through the system and through the funnel to get on therapy. Could you just kind of cover that step-wise in terms of how telehealth works? And maybe talk about some of the green shoots that you're starting to see there?

Yes. Matt, it's Bret again. Yes, I was happy to do that. So there's a number of different ways that telehealth is happening in our business. And I'll touch first on new starts. And so what we saw immediately as the shelter-in-place began, and all of us were working from home, and physicians were also not regularly seeing patients in a face-to-face setting is that they have to get comfortable with the technology and having these telehealth calls with their patients. So the process is a patient will schedule a telehealth call with an endocrinologist, and endocrinologist will use Webex, Zoom, some medium to communicate with that patient. What's changed is payers are more readily reimbursing for those telehealth calls, so we've tried to educate physicians on how that works. But also new starts with Omnipod need to take place in the same environment. So the advantage, I think, that we have is the pharmacy channel, where many physicians can very quickly utilize an e-prescription and write a prescription for Omnipod virtually. And then we're scheduling training to help offload that work from a physician. And so our infield representatives are doing thousands of these virtual trainings. I attended a few of these and was really pleased to see just how easily Omnipod can be trained virtually with the patient to help them start on product. But then probably more importantly is the ongoing effort that physicians need to make with the base of Omnipod users that are out there. And so in the office setting, they are regularly looking at the data through Insulet Provided Glooko, the data management tool that physicians use to manage these patients on Omnipod. That is a tool that can be used virtually, and we've been educating physicians on how to do that. So a patient can quite easily upload their data from their home setting from a home computer so that when a physician gets on a call with a patient, they have those same data that they have in a face-to-face office setting, so they can titrate insulin and guide a patient who's on Omnipod using Glooko. But I think what's going to be really exciting in the coming months is the next software release of DASH. We haven't talked about this much, but we'll have a new cloud-to-cloud integration with Glooko. And what that means is that their data is constantly being uploaded to the cloud each time they're in WiFi range. And so now when a physician gets on a call with a patient, they'll see those data right away without having the patient do anything or the physician do anything. And that we think is a large leap forward in telehealth and enables physicians to support Omnipod users even more easily than they do today.

Right. Great. That's really cool. Yes, those are some of the things I wanted to ask about. One thing I'll circle back to in this chain, which I think was really helpful that you provided with, it's something that I think Shacey talked about on the call, the ease of the training. I was hoping since you attended a couple of those sessions, could you just elucidate what that looks like? And maybe talk about how that's facilitated by telehealth.

Yes. So -- and again, I certainly can do that. I've attended a few of those. Shacey talked about a pediatric patient that she observed being trained. I saw a pediatric patient, I also saw a type 2 patient be trained virtually. And I'll just say one thing that we've always known and really you can appreciate even more is the simplicity of Omnipod and how easy it is. First of all, how few components there are in the system. How very quickly you can fill the pod. How you put the pod on the body, wherever it is that you want to deliver insulin. And the auto insertion, when that takes place, there's no needles at all. So in a microsecond, the catheter is inserted and the patient is on and actively using Omnipod. What I observed in the training -- one of the type 2 trainings that I saw was how appreciative this patient was about the ability with DASH to do a preset bolus, to set up a bolus that, say, small, medium and large. Because, as you know, Matt, type 2 patients are diagnosed later in life. It's not something that they immediately have to start giving themselves the insulin to survive, and so the whole thought of counting the carbs and understanding the amount of carbs that you're consuming in a meal is a new complication and something that's very frustrating. And many patients would prefer to do something like a small, medium or large bolus. And so the flexibility of DASH, just how easy it is to use, it's a smartphone application on a lockdown device, very intuitive. All that really came through to me in the training. Because it's hard enough to train a patient on an insulin delivery device. And if you have to do that virtually, it complicates it even more. And so I really appreciate the simplicity that Omnipod offers to train and get started.

Got it. Got it. Okay. All right. So let's transition to some other topics here. I wanted to ask about the durability of the business, something that you've talked about. I think a lot of folks appreciate that having diabetes is a pretty serious issue. It's also an issue that's been shown to increase risk with COVID. And I think that might be important to talk about as well. And on the call, you mentioned that you really didn't see any increase in attrition. So combining those thoughts, I was just hoping you could talk about the durability that you're expecting of your current patient base and the importance of having this kind of therapy at a time where there could be increased risk?

Matt, it's Wayde. I can start that one. I mentioned upfront about the durability in regards to new patient starts and how they have approximately 10% impact. Well, the other 90% of our revenue comes from the annuity and the customers that buy our product every quarter and we have many Omnipoders that have been with us for a long time. And part of that is the attrition that you mentioned. We have the best retention in the industry. And we had expected coming into the year and had factored into our guidance at the beginning of the year, that we could see an increase or a tick up in attrition given that we're shifting to the pay-as-you-go model. So our pay-as-you-go model is designed to take away the upfront charge for the product. And now it is just a pay-as-you-go model. It's just that. It allows people to avoid the upfront cost and the lock-in, typical 4-year lock-in for 2 pumps and be able to adopt the technology much easier. And as part of that, we assume that making it easier for people to get on the product, it might make it easier for people to get off the product as well. So we had ticked up our attrition estimates coming into the year. What we found in Q1 was actually our attrition slightly went down. And we're happy to see that. And it just speaks to the value of the product and the value the customers see in the product. That once they try Omnipod, they stay with Omnipod. The other thing you mentioned was one of the things we are watching closely, Matt. We talk a lot about new patient starts and the headwinds that they bring to revenue here while we have restricted access for patients to see their physicians. And obviously that could increase if we go back into lockdown or it's more challenging for people, and just depending on how the pandemic flows, that could be a headwind. On the other side of the ledger, we're watching a couple of positives that could be tailwinds. And one of the ones you mentioned, which is for people with diabetes, they could be at higher risk for complications from COVID-19. And so particularly for type 2s, there could be a higher sense of awareness or some demand created because those patients who aren't in the best of control currently and want to get better control and seeking insulin therapy, it could -- that awareness could create more demand for a solution or a therapy like Omnipod, and as well as just the period of time that people aren't able to see their physicians, could that create a bolus of people just normally who would want to get in to see their physician after being restricted for a few months. And so we haven't factored those in to the guidance to any large material extent. We're obviously going to be watching both the headwinds of new patient starts, and are those even more material than we've estimated. And on the other side of the ledger, are there opportunities to try to fill back in with the bolus or for people who are now more aware of diabetes and looking for therapy.

Yes. Wayde, I'd add to that. We have a tremendous amount of momentum in this area because of this pay-as-you-go model. And so we always -- I'd love to say this, but we have the best retention in the industry. And that's a result -- this is tribute really to Omnipod, the product, but it's also result of the culture that we have to create because of this pay-as-you-go model. Shacey always says, we earned our revenue every 3 days with a patient and so there's not as much of this bolus of revenue that comes in from new starts. So that can actually be frustrating for the sales and marketing teams because while we reported record new starts throughout last year. Sometimes revenue doesn't reflect that immediately because new starts in an individual quarter mean less to that revenue quarter, as Wayde said, most of the revenue comes from what we really did in the previous year, right? And so -- and from the base, and so it creates this culture where a new start is important, and it's a driver of future growth, but keeping a patient on product is critically important, too. And so we've got great momentum going into this new environment.

Right, right. And that's really enabled in part by the pharmacy channel, which you talked about. I'd love to go into that a little bit further. Now you're seeing a pretty large proportion of your new starts come through the pharmacy. And I think you said on the last call, about 30% of the base is there. Maybe talk about how you see that adoption increasing. What do you think that, that will become over time? And just spend a minute on the practical or mechanistic aspect of doing that from a patient's point of view versus having to go through the DME?

Sure. Why don't I start, Bret, talking from the strategic standpoint, and I can hand it over to you to talk from the patient standpoint, it might be helpful. So just to reiterate what you said, Matt, you're correct, we said that almost 30% of our volume now is going through the pharmacy. And that's a direct result of the shift in strategy over the last few years to move to the disposable model, which is no charge upfront for the PDM and only charging for the disposable. That is the case for DASH. And so with the new innovation we launched with DASH in Q2 of last year, it is only sold through the pay-as-you-go model. And that acceleration of new products in the new pharmacy channel is driving up a higher percentage of our volume through the pharmacy. What I would say is, we're still seeing good growth in our DME side of our business, both in the direct DME and in our direct customer channel. And so we're seeing good growth in all of those areas, but the pharmacy channel is outpacing them and becoming a larger percentage of our volume of our new patient starts. So the majority of our new patient starts are now coming with DASH, and that's a direct result of the access that our teams have been able to establish both in Medicare and Medicaid, but also with our commercial payers. So that's the perspective from the strategy. But Bret, probably helpful, as Matt asked for from a patient's perspective as well.

Yes. The pharmacy channel is something we've talked a lot about in the last year, but it's really been in the works for 3 years, the plan to get there. And it started with Medicare and CMS designation as Part D, which is what we wanted. It really defined us as a pharmaceutical. And the launch of DASH was our opportunity to really make a move into the pharmacy in earnest, and that's when it started. The reason for doing it really was because of the experience that it provides to both the patient and the health care providers. So for a health care provider, we know there's a lot of paperwork in the DME channel. A lot of hoops you've got to jump through to get a patient on product versus simply writing a prescription, which is something they're accustomed to doing every single day. So we wanted that for our physicians to make it easier to start patients on product. But for the patient, we really see probably the most benefit in the pharmacy channel. When they can get their pods, where they get their insulin and the rest of their medication, there's tens of thousands of retail pharmacies across the U.S. So it's very accessible and easy to do. But probably one of the most significant parts of the pharmacy channel is a predictable low out-of-pocket expense. And we know that the greatest obstacle historically to pod therapy was cost. And so either the upfront cost, which we eliminated in this pharmacy move as there's no upfront fee to start on Omnipod, no durable component, but also just the unpredictability of your out-of-pocket expenses that happens in this DME channel, where at the beginning of the year, you have a high out-of-pocket cost because you haven't met your deductible, and that gets smaller throughout the year. But that type of unpredictable out-of-pocket expense is something that patients cannot tolerate and it can cost them to go off product. And so what we're seeing in the pharmacy channel is a really predictable low co-pay. In fact, 84% of patients get their pods from pharmacy, pay a co-pay of $49 or less. So that means they're getting a co-pay anywhere from $0 up to $49, the vast majority of Omnipod users. And so we know that, that is a great experience. It's something that's sustainable. And in all of these recent events sort of why we've made this push into the pharmacy channels and a lot of work is establishing access, getting contracts with wholesalers, retailers. But we know it's where we want to be, and it's the right experience for the patient and the health care provider.

Got it. The other thing on the pharmacy channel that I talked about on the last call was the fact that it gives more flexibility with type 2 coverage. So I was hoping you could spend a minute on that. Maybe we could dovetail into that part of the discussion where you're now seeing a larger proportion of your base -- your starts coming from type 2?

Yes, sure. I can start on that one as well, Matt. So the type 2 market is a very attractive market for us and, frankly, for all insulin pump companies. We're talking a lot about it lately because all of a sudden, it's an attractive market and a patient base that we want to serve, but because of the new access that's there due to the pharmacy channel. And frankly, for us, due to Medicare coverage, which is also relatively new starting the beginning of '18. So I can talk about that. In the DME channel, type 2 patients are really challenged to get on any sort of pump therapy or Omnipod for a number of reasons. One, there's this high upfront cost, there's 4-year lock-in period. But also payers have restrictions for type 2 patients. And one of those is very commonly known as a C-peptide test, where a patient has to pass this test essentially and prove that they don't have any pancreatic function. That's a difficult thing for type 2 patients to do because most do have some sort of function in their pancreas still versus type 1 patients. So that creates a large barrier to entry for patients. For us, additionally, Matt, we didn't have Medicare coverage for a long time. And so with the hoops that they have to jump through in the DME channel and the fact that we didn't have Medicare coverage, where 40% of all type 2 patients are over the age of 60, there's just a lot of barriers to entry for type 2 patients. Fast forward to, again, the pharmacy channel, what we're seeing is there's no difference between type 1 and type 2 patients. A physician writes a prescription, a patient can get on product. And Medicare is where the pharmacy is served for us. So those 2 kind of eliminations of those barriers to access have been really instrumental for us. And what we've found is it is sort of unlocking the value that we know Omnipod provided any way to type 2 patients. They value things like ease of use, like discretion, simplicity, really easy carb counting like DASH provides with its food library. Some of these things that were there with Omnipod, we're now realizing because patients have access to it. So it's been a tremendous lift for us. And to your point, we did get 30% of new starts for type 2. That's a significant jump over what it's been historically. And as far as where can it go, we'll see, but we have had several quarters now of a real lift in new patient starts that are type 2.

And Bret, I could just add on to what Bret said there. As you said before, Omnipod, there really wasn't good options for type 2s who were seeking therapy. And a big challenge was the large upfront cost of obtaining a tubed pump, the historical option. And so we're very happy to be able to bring Omnipod to type 2s, especially with the pay-as-you-go model. And if we think from a payer perspective, we bring a lot of value here because type 2s can now adopt Omnipod. It doesn't cost thousands of dollars upfront. There is no upfront charge. Customers are not locked in for a 4-year period of time. They can simply try the product. And we know that for type 2s who use Omnipod, our current product today, they reduce the daily dose of insulin up to 27%. And so we believe that the data will start to show and help payers see that significant savings can be achieved from reduced use of insulin. And this is before we get to Horizon. And so we're very optimistic about the value proposition we can bring here for type 2s, both from, obviously, as Bret laid out from the patient benefit, but also from the payer benefit. And from the provider side of things, giving them another option for therapy here, other than just moving type 2s to multiple daily injections.

Got it. Okay. And then you said one of the magic words, Horizon. I think we should talk about that. Obviously, an exciting product launch you've been working towards for a long time. I think it was actually a little bit of a positive surprise that you didn't have to delay it so much here with COVID. Could you just talk about the current state of the program, when you expect to get results that you can talk about? And when we actually could see it commercially launched?

Very happy to talk about Horizon, Matt. Glad you asked that one, and I can start this one, Bret. We've got a lot to say about Horizon. We're incredibly excited. And you're right, we were very fortunate that we were able to keep the front end of our time line on track. We have had paused the trial for a couple of months in order to fix a software anomaly that, just as a key point here, we did not have any adverse events with anybody in the trial. In fact, we found the data anomaly -- the anomaly in our data and wanted to pause the trial. So we did that. We fixed the anomaly. And even during the pandemic, when we had to shift all of our nonessential workers to working from home and the majority of our R&D teams and clinical teams all made that transition to working from home, and we're able to keep the front end of the time line on track here. Fix the anomaly and put the package together for the FDA, and that has been submitted, as we said on our Q1 call. And as part of that submission is also a new protocol. We're very fortunate that we were in the middle of the pivotal trial when we went into this lockdown and challenges from the current COVID-19 impact because we had almost half of the pivotal trial done. All of the trial participants have the product, and it's a matter of changing the protocol. Although the original protocol was a from-home study that still requires new protocol for how the trial participants will interact with their investigators and how we'll conduct the rest of the trial. Having said that, we're expected to get the feedback from the FDA in about 30 days, and that will put us back on track to get the trial started. We did change our launch date from early '21 to first half '21 to accommodate for some of the delays that could come with the change in protocol and restarting the trial, as well as at the end of the trial, working through the data, getting the submission to the FDA. So we did move the time line back approximately a quarter into the first half of '21. Obviously, the teams are still working very hard to get this done and get it to the market as soon as possible. We talk about Horizon a lot. Just a reminder for people that today, we're competing very well. We've built a lot of momentum and growth in the business. And we believe that the differentiators in our form factor today are what are helping us compete. When we get to Horizon and we bring in a closed-loop automated insulin delivery system, we think we'll significantly level the field. We'll combine an insulin delivery with our form factor and have a very competitive differentiated product in the marketplace.

Great, great. That's a great level of detail there on the program. And then I just have a few minutes left. So I want to make sure that we cover a couple more things. So one would be, I guess, I just wanted to ask about the margins and the balance sheet. So the first is on margins. You did -- obviously, they're being disruptions this year, that's clear, but you lowered the targets for next year to a range of 67% to 70% versus your prior 70%, and talked about operating margins at the lower end of the mid-teens range. Can you talk about what is impacting that? And then just maybe address what you think you can do on the margin structure longer-term as you continue to scale?

Sure. Yes. So as you said, we reduced our long-range plan target of 70% for 2021 to a range of 67% to 70%, and that is all to accommodate for what we've seen in the disruption of our strategy here around COVID-19. So our strategy was to develop an automated manufacturing facility in the U.S. A quick update there. We have obviously built that facility. Our first-line has been in production for some time. We just stood up our second manufacturing line. It's been in production since March. And we're working on line 3. Making good progress. But what has changed in the last quarter is number one, our teams had to pivot to COVID-19 mitigation and safety measures and part of that was stopping traveling. So the third-party automated manufacturing experts who come from Canada outside of the U.S. obviously can't get to our facility today. Line 3, where it's being built up at that facility in Canada, obviously, our teams can't get there. And then beyond that, just traveling back and forth with our suppliers, a lot of the work and design around the automated manufacturing comes from also working with our suppliers to bring in the components the way we're going to need them for automation. So all that work got materially disrupted here with dealing with the current COVID pandemic. And so we wanted to give a heads up to people that that's going to mean 2 things. It means we're going to have a lower level of volume than we were anticipating. And it's going to take longer time for us to ramp up to line 2 and line 3. And what that means is it will take us longer to get to the efficiency levels that we need to get to 7% gross margins. And a reminder that the automated manufacturing facility in the U.S. with a lower landed total cost of goods sold is the single biggest driver for us getting to those 70% gross margins. So we wanted to keep them in view. There's still scenarios that get us there. But I wanted to give people a heads up that given this delay and assuming this delay carries over into next year, that we're going to be lower than the 70%, but it does not change our confidence in our ability to get to 70% over time.

Got you. And then just to follow it up with the balance sheet question. So you have a strong balance sheet. You already had one, but you also raised some money here last week. So I just wanted to talk about the thinking behind that and what you expect the major uses of the proceeds would be going forward?

Yes. So we did the follow-on equity to shore up our balance sheet, as you said, and even strengthen the strong position we were in. And so if we had not moved into this current and higher risk, higher volatile environment with the pandemic, we wouldn't have done this type of an equity raise. But when we did our scenario planning, we not just did one scenario, but we did several downside scenarios. And although we're very confident in the durability of our model and feel we're very well positioned, we don't know exactly what this pandemic will bring and how challenging the environment will be in front of us. And we did not want to have any scenario, where we're not putting our foot on the gas. We had a lot of momentum building in this business, a lot of accelerating growth quarter-on-quarter coming into the pandemic. And on the other side, as I mentioned, we believe we're only going to be stronger when we launch Horizon. And so we didn't want to have any scenario even if it wasn't getting to an extreme downside, but as you can imagine, if we are in a scenario where things were more challenging, we may pull back on some capacity expansion or try to mitigate expenses in some way. And we did not want to come close to thinking about those kinds of scenarios. We are so confident in the future and what we can do for customers with both type 1 and type 2 diabetes that we wanted to be able to lean in and deliver on all of our strategies and be confident and not hesitate to continue to invest, so that we're even stronger on the other side.

Great, great. Well, I think we're pretty much at the end of the session here. So that's probably a good place to stop. We've covered a lot of topics. And I just want to thank you and everybody on the team for joining us today. I think we and investors really appreciate all the updates at a time when your business demands a lot and your home life demands a lot, all that kind of stuff and it's been really helpful, and we wish you the best of luck as you continue to work through the challenges, but you seem to be doing a good job so far.

Well, thank you, Matt. We really appreciate you pivoting and all of you all for participating in this fashion. We really appreciate the support out there. And great questions today. If there's any questions left unanswered, please don't hesitate to reach out to Deb and IR or us, more than happy. And hopefully, everybody stays well out there, and we get to the other side of this thing faster -- sooner rather than later. So thanks again, Matt. Really appreciate it.

Great. Thanks. Take care, guys. Bye.

Bye, everybody.