Inversiones La Construcción S.A. (ILC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Okay. Good morning to everyone, and thank you for joining us in this annual presentation of our results of 2020. [Operator Instructions] At the end of the presentation, we will consolidate them and try to address all of them. So in general terms, you have seen our results of 2020. There was a relevant improvement on the results in the fourth quarter of 2020 due to different reasons, and I will address them. So we will talk about the results, the results by division, and a brief wrap-up and conclusions of our company today. In terms of the highlights, I would say that we have, during this tough year, an extremely different year. We have done the job. We've been very active in terms of the pandemia, in terms of the way to face this contingency. We have learned a lot about adaptation and flexibility under these scenarios. Technology, it's been a key element and a key driver for us to perform over these difficult times. And finally, I would say that this is a company that, given the composition of the subsidiaries we have, it has resilient results, and we have a very strong financial position, which is again relevant for this type of crisis. In terms of the active role in the contingency, of course, Red Salud, it's been the main subsidiary due to its role in the industry. We have served close to 2,000 patients. We increased during the peak of the pandemia in 2020 close to 3x our critical care beds. We have run more than 230,000 CRP tests. And we have a connection. We have served close to 20,000 patients in COVID. In Consalud, we offer different benefits to our customers in terms of copayments on COVID-19 testing, in terms of postponing our base plan price adjustment of 2020. In Confuturo, a lot of homework in terms of remote annuity sales and remote payments. We did a very tough and strong job with our customers in order to pay them their pensions through online channels, which wasn't the case with a lot of them. In Vida Cámara, the supplemental health insurance company, we launched 100% coverage on COVID-19. This was something that was voluntary from the company, wasn't included on the policies. And in Banco Internacional, we've been very active on the COVID-19 lines, guaranteed by the government in order to provide liquidity to meet small size corporations during 2020. This is a great summary of a lot of different activities we ran during the pandemia that -- I would say that we can conclude that we did our job. We did what we are committed to. Adaptation and flexibility, different elements in different subsidiaries, but we changed the focus. We were able to move the strategies from each of these companies in order to face the pandemia. On the health area, Red Salud, Consalud and Vida Cámara, we -- just in a couple of days or weeks, we adapt all of our activity to the new scenario. In Banco Internacional, we stopped the focus on growth, and we put all of our efforts on risk. In Habitat, we consolidate our geographical diversification strategy. And in Confuturo, given that the size of the market reduced, we adapt our strategy in order to focus on opportunity -- or investment opportunities more than and grow. If you put all of this together, we continue beating -- besides the pandemia, we continue beating our [ essential growth ] in our subsidiaries. Some metrics, some figures that reflects what I'm talking about. In terms of remote work, we lied from 60% of remote work in Consalud up to 100% in Vida Cámara and ILC. Very fast and very quick, we adapt the ways we work; and more important than that or so important as that, we were able to offer to our customers the same level of service through online services, online channels. Just to give you an idea, Habitat was able to offer 85% of its services through online channels or online tools. And Confuturo, Banco Internacional, Vida Cámara and Consalud were able to offer 100% of its services through online channels. We were very strict in terms of safety measures for our workers in our branches, in our offices. We also did not do not took -- did not take the -- what we call the postponement of labor contracts. We didn't take that as other companies. So we kept the labor contracts of our -- all of our workers during this pandemia, and we'll launch new services and digitalization process. A typical example of this is telemedicine in Red Salud. We didn't have before much; and in June last year, we did more consultations through telemedicine than physically. Results. You may see that our results bottom line were 5% lower than the ones in 2019. The first quarter of 2020 was very tough for us given the performance of the markets. And then we started a slow recovery in the second quarter and a strong recovery in the second half of 2020. Some explanations of each of this quarter. The first one was the one in which the COVID was -- arrived in Chile and was declared in Chile. There was a historical drop in the performance of the IPSA. I think I mentioned this in other calls, in other meetings, but the performance of the IPSA in the first quarter 2020 was the worst in the history of the index. We have faced a decline in the health care activity since mid-March, and we started making additional provisions in terms of risk -- credit risk and some impairments, so was a tough one. The second one, lower financial markets start to recovery. The loss ratio in Consalud and Vida Cámara went down, so the combination of all of these aspects gave us a positive quarter. And the last one was a rebound in the health activity. The financial markets performs -- performance was again in recovery terms, and we were awarded with the 4 segments of the disability and survivorship insurance in Chile, 3 in Vida Cámara and 1 in Confuturo, and that gave us results for the second half and will give us results for the first half of this year. So bottom line, we ended up with net results or net income similar to 2019. You see this in a long-term series of time. If we take 8, 9 years, you will see that, besides the pandemia, we were able to record 2020 very close to our recurring income of 2018 and 2019. And again, we are -- continue focusing on how to grow in the second stage of our strategy from 2017 to 2022. In terms of diversification, we continue under the same strategy of looking for a pie chart in which each of these 4 segments of business will contribute equally or seen in a similar way to our results. So the message here -- the underlying message is that the pandemia was hard for us, still hard for us, provide us or gave us lessons in order to be more flexible in order to have companies in which you can change or you can move the strategies fast or quick, but we continue in the same line of our strategy that we have before the pandemia. And that's very relevant, and that's a clear result or a clear proof of our resilient results in ILC. Let's talk about each of the divisions or subsidiaries and how are they doing or they did or they performed in 2020. This chart, it's a summary of the difference between the result of 2019 and 2020. You may see that there's a negative difference in Habitat, Confuturo, Red Salud. In the case of Habitat, it's very easy to explain because the performance of the cash [ in the ] reserves in 2019 was historical. In Confuturo, it's a combination of performance of investments, especially some impairments with -- in fixed income and the performance of the equities. Red Salud is easy to explain. We faced since April until August a very strong decline in our volume of sales from 50% up to 90%, depending on the services. Consalud is the other flip of the coin with a lower loss ratio than 2019. Vida Cámara is a combination of the same effect, plus the disability and survivorship insurance. And there, there are other minor effects on the explanation. So let's talk about Habitat. If you see on the chart on the -- to the left, the profit before taxes and reserves, you will see that Habitat is continuing to grow. Different explanations for the growth, yes. We have Peru, and we have Colombia. But the key message here that you may see in the chart to the right is that 2020, a year in which we consolidate in Habitat for the first time a full year of Colombia and Peru, 30% of the revenues are coming from other countries different than Chile. And that's a strategy, to continue diversifying the source of revenues of Habitat from a geographical standpoint. In Confuturo, the market is experiencing a lot of pressure. Why? You see the chart to the left. That's the gap between the rate of the program withdraw and the annuities. You know that annuities are a fixed payment for life, so you run -- you don't run market risk. You don't run longevity risk compared to the program withdraw in which you face both of them. So then when you see the gap between these 2 rates close as 2018 or 2019, you see that 70% of the people, 65% of the people are choosing annuities because the difference of the gap in this -- in the pension is not so relevant compared to the benefits of having -- or avoiding market risk and longevity risk. When the gap is -- as the -- what we are seeing today, the difference in pension is material, so less people are choosing annuities compared to periods as 2018 and 2019. So now instead of 70% of people choosing annuities, you have 40%, 35% of people choosing annuities. When you see the effect of that to the right, this is the gray bar, you see that the market size went down dramatically in 2020 from USD 87 million to close to USD 39 million, USD 40 million. So it's more than half of the size of the market on the previous year. And of course, when you see the premiums of Confuturo, you see that we are adjusting that according to the market. And on the other side, when you see years as 2016 and 2017, the reason behind that size of volume or that volume of net premiums was that we had attractive investment opportunities. Basically, we acquired real estate or -- from Walmart. Our strategy is to find and to follow the spread, to follow an IRR. We don't care about market share. And this is something that you have heard from me in the past, but it's important to repeat again that we are behind -- providing our shareholders the right IRR on the business. And that's behind this. This is a combination of the market size that is declining, plus that we are not able to find the right opportunities to sell more. In terms of the investment result, you see a lot of gaps, a lot of explanation for the difference between the results of 2020 and 2019, but I would say that the most relevant that we faced pressure on some fixed income papers, especially LATAM, the airline, in 2020. In local equities, we did better than 2019 because of some funds we own. And in real estate, the main explanation behind this is that most of our real estate is commercial real estate and, of course, the pandemia hurts us. Let me stop one moment there. Just to give you an idea, the result of the EBITDA of the real estate went down 25% during 2020 compared to 2019. You know that most of that EBITDA is coming from the acquisition we made in 2016 to Walmart. When you translate that EBITDA, the 2020 EBITDA, into return on assets, it's inflation plus 4.5%. When we put the offer on those assets in 2016, the discount rates on the asset was inflation plus 5.7%. So why am I explaining this? Because besides the pandemia, the commercial real estate we own are very, very defensive. To perform 120, 110 basis points below the technical rate or the rate we use for the offer in a year like this, for me, that's something if you compare that to the interest rate levels we are facing in the country. Foreign fixed income, we did better than 2019. Foreign equities, we did worse than 2019. But bottom line, we ended up with a return on the investment portfolio, which is 6.5% lower than the one in 2019. Banco Internacional, key message here, the one I mentioned before, we adjust our strategy. You see here that we grew much more than the market during 4 years; and very quickly, we adapt our strategy to the same growth rate of the industry. Why? Because in a year as 2020, the focus is not growth. It's to protect our risk expenses. In terms of results, we continue the story. We acquired the bank at the end of 2015 that was making 0, and we ended up 2020 with an ROE of 13%, very similar to the results of 2019. We also made voluntary provisions of CLP 19 billion, that if you put that together with the ones we made at the end of 2019, you ended up with more than CLP 22 billion of voluntary provisions. That's 1 year of results of the bank. What will happen this year? We feel comfortable that the level or the stock of voluntary provisions is the right one. If the effects of the pandemia on the second half of the year are not so heavy as we expected at the end of 2020, of course, part of that will be reversed. But the relevant message here is that we have a lot of protection. We have a protection in terms of voluntary provisions made by the banks. I would say that this is one of the banks that in relative terms made more voluntary provisions during 2020. We also record a very strong Basel Index, more than 15x. But again, we are top 3, top 4 in terms of capitalization index in the industry. And we are again in a year in which we want to grow and we need to grow to follow our strategy, but we have to be careful with the risk on the coming months. Red Salud probably the most complicated subsidiary during 2020. The EBITDA evolution of Red Salud in 2019, besides the social crisis at the end of the year, we ended with more than CLP 46 billion, and we record during 2020 CLP 31.1 billion. The only explanation behind that is lower level of activity. You may see the figures that the last quarter of 2020, the activity jumped dramatically. That's continued to be the case this year. Why? Because especially more complex procedures that are postponed -- that were postponed during the pandemia, people are returning to the hospitals and medical centers over the last 5, 6 months. But you may see that, here, the EBITDA breakdown of 2019, which was a sort of regular year, was 1/3 regional hospitals, 36% outpatient and 36% metropolitan -- the hospitals located in the metropolitan region. If you see the same pie chart in 2020, you will see a very dramatic reduction in the relative importance of outpatients that is explained basically by the pandemia. Consalud, the other -- the opposite, there was a hedge of a portion of Consalud's results with Red Salud. We recovered the results of 2019. We're still under pressure. And the temporary disability license or insurance that is part of Isapre is hurting us. You may see the numbers here. Why? Because we're receiving a lot of disability or temporary disability requirements due to the COVID, and that continues to be the case probably the following 3, 4 months. But on the other side, medical expenses went down due to the pandemia, but it's under pressure. It's an industry that, as always, and has been the case over the last 8, 10 years, is a very low-margin industry, and that put a lot of pressure on us. In terms of reforms, I will talk later, but there is no -- I mean we don't see potential reforms coming on this industry. Vida Cámara, the -- if we split the health business or the health insurance business with the disability and survivorship insurance that was very relevant in 2020, you will see that we were coming with a company that was making CLP 3 billion on a regular basis on its regular business. When you see 2020, the regular business or the health insurance business jumped 3x, again, due to the lower loss ratio. In this case, we don't have temporary disability insurance. We only have the effect of the lower consumption of health. And on the other side, the second semester of 2020, we accounted more than CLP 8.5 billion in terms of net results due to the disability and survivorship insurance that we were awarded for 1 year from July 2020 to June 2021. Financial position, it's something that you may see in any presentation, but it's very, very relevant for us. In April last year, we took 3 decisions: The first one, we lowered the dividend payout; the second one, we postponed CapEx; and the third one was to -- took committed lines with banks and secured cash to face the pandemia. We have a level of cash and equivalents that is much higher than our future commitments in terms of financial expenses and amortization of debt. We continue to be AA+. We are very concentrated on bonds. We have just a few bank loans, and that again gives us flexibility in order to have more access to the banks. In terms of sustainability achievements, we continue following our strategy. For the first year, all of our subsidiaries work under -- with the committees composed by Board members to follow the sustainability strategy. Our main pillars of the strategy are inclusiveness and access, responsible investment, culture of service and ethics, contribution to public debate. Again, we focused in 2020 a lot of our efforts, indeed, sustainability to our workers due to the pandemia. We are committed to the Global Compact on the SDG principles. We improved our score in all of the ESG measurements. And we -- for the third year in a row, we are part of the Dow Jones Sustainability Index. So again, as with the strategy of the company, the pandemia changed some focuses, of course, but we continue to push for our sustainability strategy. So in summary, we continue to have strong fundamentals. We are a leader in the markets we play. We have resilient results and returns. We have a strong financial position. We adapt all of our strategies during the pandemia. And what you are seeing in 2020 as the net income or the bottom result is -- it reflects a lot of things we did during 2020. We recover our results quarter-by-quarter due to market improvements, due to more adaptation to the new reality. And of course, it helps us, the disability and survivorship insurance. The main lessons I would say that it's key to be flexible, it's key to have companies in which you can move them and adapt them to new situations, new realities. We capitalized Confuturo in 2019, Banco Internacional and Red Salud in 2020, and we have liquidity to face pressure on our subsidiaries. And we were very active in the pandemia in the COVID-19 in different ways as part of our DNA, as part of our history, in terms of being able to offer to the country and to help the country to pass over this huge crisis we faced during the last 12 months. So with that, I will lend to Trinidad in order to address the questions you may have.

Thank you, Pablo. [Operator Instructions] So we have some questions here. Pablo, the first one is regarding the level of cash of Habitat, which right now is in CLP 123 billion, above historical average, so if you can give a guidance of the level of cash that Habitat can have looking forward.

Yes. Yes. That -- I will complement that question with what happened with the dividend because, at the end of the day, having, in this case, an affiliate, to us, with that level of cash, which is much more than the structural of the cash needs they may have in their balance sheet, is it's something that it's a question that we have to address. The level of cash is due to the first and the second withdraw. The first 10% and the second 10% withdraw of funds approved during 2020. And of course, that implied a liquidation of reserves of Habitat of around USD 7 billion. So 10% of that is [ $70 million ] on that area. And on the other side, the dividend payment in 2020, you remember that the first quarter of last year, there was a huge discussion on the performance of the funds due to the crisis and how pension fund companies or AFPs will pay more than the minimum -- the legal minimum payment of 30% having those performances. So we decided to pay 30% in average. So the combination of that, of a dividend that was lower than the historical dividend, plus the liquidation of the reserve of the first and the second 10% withdraw is the explanation behind that level of cash. That's the first part of the question. The second part that was the one I complement was what was happening with the dividend. Well, the first thing is that the cash, even though from a financial standpoint, the taxes are recognized on the books, from a cash flow standpoint are not recognized. So the liquidation of cash is taxable. So we have to pay the taxes. Habitat have to pay the taxes when they're liquidating cash. So on the average rate, it's 20%, 21%. So there is 20% of that amount that will go to the fiscal account. Dividend, we are pushing for that during the coming months. Of course, I cannot provide a certain date because it depends on the shareholders' meetings. It depends on the -- a different time line, probably will take a couple of months. But remember that we will receive 40% of that excess cash post taxes in the case of the amount of the cash that is due to the liquidation of the cash and reserve. So the answer is, at some point of this year, we expect to receive those dividends.

Yes. Okay. Then we have another question, Pablo, regarding the program that Red Salud implemented this year in terms of savings, in terms of costs and expenses. And this question is about out of the amount of that is structural that should be maintained during the future and which one is like a one-off, if you can give us more color on that.

Yes. It's half and half. Half, we expect to be structural. There are some adjustments that we are making, and we expect that to be there over time. But the problem and the thing that we have to take into account is that, as soon as we operate under pandemia, we are spending more in safety. We are spending more in raw material. And if you put all of that together, we are spending more in transportation, a lot of things. So if you put all of the pandemia additional costs together, it's roughly 100 basis points of the EBITDA margin. So the complete answer to that question is that we expect half of the saving plans to be there from a structural point -- standpoint. But on the other side, we expect a higher cost of operating cost due to the pandemia. We expect the 2 of them to offset during the coming months. And the other question mark is that, in health, the base scenario is that we will have to continue working under these additional safety measures during a long time. So the one thing is the pandemia for the common of the population. The other thing is the pandemia for a health care institution. So we expect that to be there for a couple of years.

Okay. Thank you, Pablo. Then we have another question regarding the outlook for Vida Cámara, especially in terms of the loss ratio, given that 2020 was a very good year in terms of having a low loss ratio.

Yes. I would say that, that was a one-off. Why? Because remember that in Vida Cámara, the contracts are on an annual basis; and when you renew the contracts with the companies, basically, the main driver or the main variable behind the fee and what you renovate the contract is what was the loss ratio in the previous 12 months. So this is going to be an adjustment, and we will return to the regular level of result, of the regular loss ratio in 6 to 12 months. So we don't expect that to be something structural for a long time and also, of course, depends on the evolution of the pandemia. I mean if we continue to be under quarantine for a long period, of course, you will see more weeks or more months of that positive effect. But if not, that's something that will be adjusted on price over the coming months.

Thank you, Pablo. Then we have another question regarding telemedicine and how this service is growing in terms of importance in Red Salud, what to expect looking forward and the potential that it could have this new service.

The -- well, telemedicine, as I mentioned, wasn't a channel, wasn't an option before March. We did something very simple. We launched -- this was an agreement with Google. It's a Google Meet. So the telemedicine of Red Salud is a Google Meet with a prepayment button in our website. So it's something very, very similar, and it's working very good. The peak of telemedicine was in June last year, which we did 18,000 consultations. That's equivalent to a large size medical center. And then after June, that number started to decline down to 5,000 consultations per month, [ 4,000 ] consultations per month. So to the question is we expect that to be a new channel, not so heavy, of course, or strong as it was in June last year in the peak of the pandemic. And the challenge now is how to perform this channel. Why? Because now the only thing we offer is a consultation, right? So it's online consultation. So we are in the process of analyzing how to get more exams, more procedures, more engagement with the patient post the consultation. I think it's something that will offer us, again, a lot of alternatives, especially in some specialists that they don't need physical contact, is -- the good news is that the telemedicine Red Salud is not the result of a huge investment in technology. It was a result of the strategy we are pushing for in terms of technology, being a good purchaser or buyer of technology. And that's something that we expect to offer us new line of revenues, new solutions without entering into these long-term internal IT projects, very expensive with a lot of uncertainty, et cetera.

Thank you, Pablo. Then here, we have a new question regarding reforms in pension fund in the AFPs. What is your outlook for it? And if you can give us more color on that.

Well, the last chapter of the pension funds, the pension fund reform was the announcement made by the President a couple of weeks ago. In simple terms, what was offered was more resources from the government to support low pensions or mid- to low-income people. In some way, the level of coverage of those benefits was open to more people, more than 60% of the low-income people up to 80%. But bottom line is that is recognizing that to support low-income people or to support low-income pensions or mid-income pensions, the most efficient way and the most rapid way to do it is through physical resources. And in terms of the reform to the AFPs, we continue to -- looking for this increase in contribution in 6%, 3% of that to the [ individual ] account and 3% of that to solidarity fund. 3% non-managed by the AFPs, which is something that was over the table, was the same reform that was approved in the low chamber in January 2020. But more than talking about the specifics of this announcement is, again, the main or the most relevant, new on this announcement is that there was more fiscal resources available. This is now a political discussion, and this is now in the arena of the high chamber fighting with the government, discussing on, "You mentioned this 6 months ago, and you mentioned that now, and you are not following the agreements we made." So it's more than a technical discussion now. It's a political discussion. We have an election, a very relevant election in 3 weeks from now. Again, as always, it's difficult to give a probability of -- having the reform approval or not is something that, again, is out of our scope. But our view is that all the so material events that will happen on the political arena in the coming 3, 4 weeks, we may expect that the discussion will be postponed. But again, you never know. With the politicians and with the Congress, you never know. But the base case, I would say, is that it's a postponement of the discussion and probably, a lot of pressure in order to split the project announced by the government and saying we can approve now the part of the project that is related to more fiscal resources, and we can postpone the discussion on the other side. But again, next 3, 4 weeks are going to be -- probably the agenda is going to be focused on the election, so that's our view. But it's not that I don't want a proper and an accurate answer to the question, but it's difficult to give a probability to something that is on an arena that we are out of.

Okay. Then, Pablo, we have a question regarding the current level of activity in Red Salud given the rise that we have been seeing in the number of COVID cases.

Well, in Red Salud, we are basically -- in terms of beds, I'm talking about on critical beds, we are full. We don't have room for any increase in activity in critical beds. We are in -- we multiplied by more than 3x our capacity compared to the baseline before the pandemia. We are receiving a lot of requirements or a lot of phone calls from the authorities saying try to increase the capacity, try to increase because we are facing a critical situation in the national network. And we are able probably to open 10 or 15 additional critical beds on the coming days. And again, the problem here is not -- are not the beds itself. It's people, personal. Health -- nurses, physicians, they are absolutely tired. The knowledge for critical beds is completely different. So we are full. We are full of activity, 60% of that due to COVID, 40% of that due to non-COVID, again, speaking about critical beds. The announcement made by the authority a couple of days ago related to elective surgeries or elective procedures is different from the one they made in the previous pandemia. You remember that, last year, there wasn't an announcement by the authorities saying you are not allowed to do any elective procedure during the peak of pandemia until, I would say, mid-August. The announcement made now is different, saying if you are able to commit certain number of critical beds, you can manage elective surgeries. Why is different? Because they realize, and it's something that is not new, that is impossible to postpone procedures for years and years or for months and months. So somehow the authority is trying -- it's difficult, but it's trying to balance the installed capacity of critical beds with the ability of hospitals and medical centers to run procedures. So right now, our situation is one in which we can manage elective procedures because we are okay with the authority in terms of the requirements they made to us in order of having a certain number of critical beds. So it's different from the one last year. Now this might change in 1 hour, but as of now, that's the status.

Okay. Thank you, Pablo. Then we have 2 questions. The first one regarding the medium-term profitability expectations for Colfondos given that we acquired this affiliate at the end of 2019. And then another question regarding the level of premiums in Confuturo, if this is like a new normal for Confuturo.

Well, the first one in Colfondos, there are 2 main drivers that they are connected. One, you remember that in Colombia, we charge 3% of the salary, but that fee includes the disability and survivorship insurance. So the -- somehow the business in Colombia, it's a combination of a pension fund management business with a disability and survivorship insurance company. So you collect this 3% of fees, but you have to pay to an insurance company the price or the cost of disability and survivorship insurance. So one of the key drivers is to control the loss ratio of the disability and survivorship insurance. If you control that and you manage that, you have more probabilities of renewing the policy with the insurance company at better conditions and then improve your margin. So that's one area or focus of this new acquisition in Colombia. And the second one that is related to the first one is that we are making slow but strong changes on the commercial strategy moving to -- this is an AFP that is below the average of the industry and trying to do the same that we did with Habitat since 2008 or 2009 in which we started to change the focus -- slowly and moderate changes in the focus, the commercial focus, moving from low- to mid-income customers to mid- to high-income customers. And that's something that we have started to do in Colombia. And why is connected to the first one, because the loss ratio of the disability and survivorship insurance changes dramatically depending on the segment you serve. Those are the 2 focus. The expectation is that we are doing the job. We are starting to see some results, but these are changes that take time. The good thing about Colombia for us is that given that in Colombia, you don't have options of newcomers to the labor market as in Chile or in Peru, you can grow organically. You can compete organically. And that's something that we are starting to have more selling arguments for our customers. We performed -- our performance in 2020 was, I would say, the best of the industry in terms of the funds. And also, we are improving the level of service. So again, providing potential customers better returns in the funds; and also at the service level, we have more chances to grow organically against our competitors.

Thank you. And regarding the question of premiums in Confuturo, if this level is the new normal?

Did you say Confuturo? Yes. Yes. The -- this is not a new normal. I mean this is -- the explanation is, one, is the gap between the annuity rate and the program withdraw rate. Once that gap close or lower, the market will recover. You saw in the chart I presented that the gap is reducing. The -- it's difficult to think that the program withdraw rate will continue to be at that level given the interest rates we are seeing. In Chile, we have negative interest rates in the treasury bills. And that rate -- the program withdraw rate is -- reflects the combination of a risk-free paper plus [ 8 and 8 curve ]. So it's difficult to think that, that will be the case. And you saw that it's lower from 4.2%, 4.3% to 3.7%, 3.6%. So once that continue to be the case, the market is going to start to recover -- the annuity market is going to start to recover. It will take probably 12 to 18 months, but it's difficult to think again that, that will be the case for a long, long time given that we have negative interest rates [ since then ]. I think I missed...

Okay. I think we have the last question.

Yes -- no, no, I think I missed you, but you are there. Yes.

Yes. It's regarding the advances that we have been seeing in other competitors in the banking industry regarding the technological advances. If you can give more color on that for Banco Internacional.

Yes. Well, you know that Banco Internacional is focused on SMEs. So all the advances or the improvements in technology are focused on that segment. We launched a new website a couple of months ago specialized in SMEs. We think it's the best one for the segment. It was prepared and designed with all the specifics of our segment. On the other side, we are expecting to launch a tool for savings, a technological tool for savings. In terms of our procedures, you remember, we changed the core of the bank. The bank was -- I don't know if it's the only bank. It's probably a little bit arrogant to mention that but was one of the tool or the bank that operate fully online during the pandemic. Nobody came to the building during the peak of the pandemic, except a couple of people related to the maintenance of the equipment or something that you have to done -- to do physically. And that's the best proof. All of our branches were open because of the regulation. So that's in the core business. In future potential business, we continue to think that, at some point, technological or digital tools to offer retail products is something that the bank is able to do. But there is no -- there's nothing specific on the road on that, only ideas.

Okay, Pablo. I think that's everything in terms of questions.

Well, 1 hour, 60 minutes in the presentation and the questions, again, thank you to all of you for joining us today. And as always, this company is always very open to any questions or requirements you may have related to the status of our businesses. So thank you, and we will see you in the next opportunity. Have a great morning.