IOL Chemicals and Pharmaceuticals Limited (524164) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q1 FY '24 Earnings Conference Call of IOL Chemicals and Pharmaceuticals Limited. From the management, we have Mr. Pardeep Khanna, Chief Financial Officer; Mr. Abhay Raj Singh, Vice President and Company Secretary; and Mr. Rakesh Mahajan, Adviser, Finance and Strategy. We also have an Investor Relations team from Adfactors. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Darshan Mankad from Adfactors PR for opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, [ Rishi]. Good afternoon, everyone. We welcome you to the first quarter ended June 30, 2023 earnings call of IOL Chemicals and Pharmaceuticals Limited. Before we begin the earnings call, I would like to mention that some of the statements made during today's call might be forward-looking in nature, and hence, it may involve risks and uncertainties, including those related to the future financial and operating performance. Please bear with us if there is a call drop during the course of the conference call. We would ensure the call is reconnected the soonest. I will now hand over the call to Mr. Rakesh Mahajan for his opening remarks. Over to you, sir.

Thanks, Darshan. Good afternoon, everyone. We welcome to the first quarter earnings conference call of the company. Thank you very much for joining this call. Hope you all have gone through our results and the investor presentation available on our website and exchanges. Before we dwell into the financial performance for this quarter and open up forum for the quarter, the question and answer session, we would like to do touch up on the industry update. After a subdued growth last year amid global uncertainties, the world economy is gradually going to back with the optimism as is agent in trade and investment sentiments. Opening of the Chinese economy has proved to be at boom for overall world economy, though for some factor, it is challenging. For DI Inc., in general, the policy development is lower input cost, which are helping many companies to post good margins with this. Government of India in [indiscernible], manufacturing of API domestically to lower the dependence on Chinese imports, [ bond ] industry which may see increased interest from the Indian manufacturer who are focused on improving operational efficiency edge as well as expanding our capacity to fulfill incremental demand. For the specialty chemical sector, the growth in Chinese economy is putting pressure on the margin as our realization has reduced compared to the last quarter of FY '23. The correction in realization has impacted the top line growth also. Though -- lower input costs will have some advantage in the upcoming quarters. With this update, I now hand over the call to my colleague Mr. Pardeep who will brief you about the financial performance of the quarter. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Mahajan. Good afternoon, everyone. And thank you for joining us today to discuss our performance for the first quarter ended 30th June '23. I will take you through the financial highlights for the first quarter and the full year. Total income of the company in the quarter 1 of financial year '24 was flat at INR 570 crore as against the corresponding quarter ended June '22. EBITDA for the first quarter, '24 was INR 79.9 crore as against 30.6% higher compared to INR 61 crore in the corresponding quarter of the last year. EBITDA was INR 105 crore in quarter 4 of financial year '23. EBITDA margin for the quarter improved by 330 basis points to 14% as against 7.7% year-over-year basis. Net profit in the quarter 1 of financial year '24 was INR 46.2 crore as against INR 34.9 crore in the corresponding quarter of the last year and INR 65.8 crore in the quarter 1 of the financial year '24. This price [ volatility ] in the chemical business normalizing over the last few months. EBIT margin for the Specialty Chemical segment was stable at 4.7% in quarter 1 of 2024, while lower margin for the pharmaceutical segment was [ 14.3% ]. So with this we will open the forum for question and an consortium. Thank you very much.

[Operator Instructions] We have the first question from the line of [ Foran Parekh ] from B&K Research.

Hello, am I audible?

Yes.

Yes. Specialty Chemical sales have declined by almost 10%. So can you just give me the reason why has this declined? Is it only the price reliability or are we seeing some external factors, which have impacted in that Specialty Chemical segment?

Thank you, Ms. Parekh. The decrease in sales is not due to any quantity decrease. It is primarily through the rate reduction in [indiscernible] due to the lower raw material cost for these products.

Okay. And I see that sales is almost negative or flat. But then because of raw material cost optimization, gross margins have gone up by 500 bps. So do you think this kind of increment is sustainable in margins and -- yes, and also then cost optimization, do we see it here to stay or we might see it increase in next quarter?

We are thinking that it is margin and the sale price standard on being used sustainable, and we expect to be in this section of chemicals. It is sustainable numbers.

And last section...

Prices for raw material and finished goods are now stable, we will see the increase in top and bottom line in the third quarter.

Okay. And last question for me, please. So can you tell EBITDA margin at 5%. Would we see this run rate coming back in [ this fiscal ]?

It will remain almost same for this quarter. Almost remain the same.

So for this whole year, we assume it will remain in the similar range.

That's helpful.

So minor improvement can happen, but not really substantial improvement will not be there.

Okay. So we can work with 5% margin for the year, right?

5% to 6%, we can say safely.

[Operator Instructions] We have the next question from the line of Sheikh Mohamad Ayaz, he's an individual investor.

I have medical questions. First question is if you see complete benefit option action you sell. So, it has raised in early June quarter. If I will see is June '21, it was INR 34 crore. In June '22, it was INR 44 crore, and now it is INR 54 crore. So I just want to know how much NPAs we have added? And is the INR 54 crore employee [indiscernible] is one time or it will continue as is?

We could not assume correctly, but I think you are talking about the employee cost?

Yes, employee benefits of [indiscernible]. Yes.

So for the first quarter, basically, the part of it is the onetime and the part of it as the annual increment because the last financial year, the employee got some variable pay that is affected in the first quarter. So that part is the first -- I mean, one time for this financial year and the incremental amount will be reflecting proportionately in the second, third and fourth quarter too.

And this INR 54 crore will continue in upcoming quarters, right.

No, it may be around INR 50.

Less than 50?

Something around INR 48 crore.

Okay. The second question is, I was looking at the margin of FY '20 and '22 margins. We were around 30%, 35%. So is company making any efforts to reach those levels anyhow or they are not reachable any [indiscernible]?

30%?

No, 30%. I was seeing for 2021 EBITDA margin. Those are around 30, 35 percentage in FY '20-'21. For '19 to '20, I don't know exactly, but the levels were around 31% and around?

Mr. Ayaz, in last quarter call, we also said that something around 15% to 17% is the EBITDA margin. We understand that this is actually in a very healthy margin. Cannot comment that we will be achieving the 20% to 22% EBITDA margin in this fiscal year or the next fiscal year. But I think that something around 15% to 17% is sustainable.

Okay. And in spite of all the development we have done in COVID, I think you have produced many products and chemicals. We have on capacity of some gratuity approvals. But still, while our [indiscernible] hasn't reached that pre-COVID level because in FY '20, I suppose INR 647 crore and INR 645 crore so why instead of so much [indiscernible], we haven't set that [indiscernible].

Actually that period was exceptional period due to COVID and other things, but now the lowest margin like Europe, we have our [indiscernible] affected to some extent, but now it is again, coming back to normal positioning. And as regard to the margins, we are working on it, I do and the expansion of our chemical product also. And we hope that with the passage of time maybe, three-fourth quarters, we had increase our bottom line also.

Okay. I have gone to the investor presentation. There is one remark is that we are going to register a few products for NMPA China. These are good products?

So these are already in the process of registration and other like Paracetamol and Metformin.

Paracetamol and Metformin. Okay, any regulated approvals coming in upcoming quarters, coming from the regulator approvals coming up in projects.

Recently, we have got approval from European and Korean also. But for the other U.S, we are getting for approval from non [indiscernible], which you [indiscernible], we have already filed that [indiscernible].

We have filed [indiscernible] under review.

Sorry, didn't get it, please repeat.

DMF for file 12 API and CEP for 5 products already filed.

Okay. Another last question. Combination products like Vildagliptin with Sitagliptin with Metformin and Losartan and Valsartan, what is that in investor presentation?

We are not involved in any combination brother. We are only for the APIs for the combination finished doses. So we are producing these -- this happen. But Sitagliptin we have got the Indian patent, but it is yet to be commercialized.

Okay. And my last and final question, why our -- no one from management are coming on air because after last quarter also, there was no interview on any of TVs. And this -- after this quarter also, there was no one on TV. What is the reason behind it?

There is no reason for that.

And why our CEO is also not coming for the conference or not for the on-air show?

Our CEO was replaced recently and he now involved in the understanding of business in liquid science will join at the appropriate time.

We have the next question from the line of Neelam Punjabi from Perpetuity Ventures, LLC.

So my first question is on the ibuprofen business. It's been pretty strong for the quarter at more than 30% Y-o-Y growth. So could you highlight has it been driven by volumes? Or have you also seen some uptick in the ibuprofen prices?

So primarily, it is on the volume increase from year-to-year to [indiscernible].

So what were the volumes for the quarter, you could highlight?

Our plant is running at 80% to 85%. In June, it was around 65% to 75%.

In the month of June?

In the June '22, it was around 55% to 75% running capacity. But now it is running at 85% to 90% capacity.

Got it. Okay. And sir, would this increase in volumes during the quarter being maintained for the rest of the year? Are you seeing strong demand for ibuprofen?

Yes, demand is there for ibuprofen.

So we can...

It is sustainable demand.

Got it. So for the full year FY '24, we can expect 85% to 90% utilization?

Exactly.

Got it. Okay. Coming to the other API business, so except ibuprofen, the revenue growth has been pretty muted at about 10% Y-o-Y. So wanted to understand why has it been muted? And I read your annual report that you had mentioned that by FY '25, you want to have known ibuprofen revenue at 50% of the pharma revenues. So are we on track to achieve the same?

In this quarter, it is already contributing around 35% of the pharma segment. And then as I do all -- lower level of growth, the price of 1 or 2 product or the -- decreased sharply in fourth quarter. However, the quantity is increasing day by day for reason being protecting the markets. And moreover, when we get that just we got approval from Europe and the other food market. And validation of those customers are under process. And we may get the good results from this non-Ibu segment from the food market shortly.

Actually, last year, we had a revenue of about INR 380 crore in the non-Ibu vertical. And we expect more than INR 500 crore or INR 550 crore in the current financial year.

Got it. Okay. And when you say that the incremental business from Europe and other regulated markets start coming in, when do you expect that increment happening?

The process is already in the -- this government is under the process already. And it took maybe 2 quarters or 3 quarters. It will be strategic getting benefits from food markets.

Got it. Okay. And would you highlight in Q1...

Probably 8 to 9 months.

Understood. Okay. For Q1, in our non ibuprofen API business, what was the split in terms of domestic and exports?

Because around 15% to 20% is export and around 80% to 85% in achieved. Primary is in the domestic market.

Got it. And just saying in the next 8 to 9 months, our export business and the regulated market share would be increase.

We also hope for this.

Understood. Okay. My next question is on the gross margin. So if I look at on a quarter-on-quarter basis from Q4 to Q1, we have seen a decline in 50 basis points -- by 50 basis points despite you mentioning -- and easing of raw material prices and input prices. So are there any one-offs during the quarter?

We had some inventory lines on a higher cost whereas a finished prices are already coming down. So it may be partly may be covered in this quarter end because it really go for 1 month profit this quarter.

Got it. Okay. Lastly, on the acetic anhydride new decommission plant. So you have mentioned that you've commissioned 25,000 tonnes per annum plant. So could you highlight what kind of cost savings could we see from your? And how much is our requirement internally for acetic anhydride and how much would be the merchant sale?

So we have started in mid of June '23. And it has already started the revenue around 80% capacity utilization. And out of that, primarily, we are using around 50% in-house and it's 40% to the merchant sale. And we had some benefit of market to price a [indiscernible] prices mentioned. And better than price consumption, reliability factor and the continued supply is addition to the company.

Actually, our prime focus is capital consumption. For the competition in the market, it will take some time. We have just started the project.

Got it. So -- - but in terms of cost saves, if you could highlight some...

But it is not a proper forum to discuss those project numbers.

Got it. Okay. No worries. I'll get back to the queue.

[Operator Instructions] We have the question from the line of Mr. Rohit Suresh from Samatva Investments.

My first question is on the paracetamol segment. So there are a lot of bigger players in the country. I just wanted to know what is the right to win for IOL like -- because given other players [indiscernible], they are backward integrated to an extent. So why did we actually plan to get into this segment? And how do we differentiate IOL versus the other peers, if you could give me something on that?

We have started our Paracetamol on a very low capacity as compared to major peers in the industry. But we started with our own philosophy of the company going for the backward integration. We have our own [indiscernible] in-house. We have acetic anhydride in house. That will give us some advantages when we reset certain economies of scale in Paracetamol. That's maybe one of the reasons to setup this plan. Although we are a very small player as of now, but if as planned by our company, we may go for extensioning paracemtol also after getting all the regulatory approvals and getting the export market and the slow market to new regulated market.

So how we do our ibuprofen capacity in the past. Can we expect similar trajectory like similar strategy in terms of growing the paracetamol capacity in the next 3, 4 years?

I had also explained that we have some plans for paracetamol extensions also.

Okay. Fine.

Because it will be the only -- I think -- we think that this is the only company which is 100% directly integrated with [indiscernible] and acetic anhydride. No company -- really taking no company is [indiscernible] 100% directly integrated in [indiscernible].

Got it. Okay. Sir, and my second question would be what is the capacity utilization right now of paracetamol like around at what capacity?

90% -- around 90%.

Around 90%. Okay. So my second -- first next would be on the ibuprofen part. So we are one of the largest producers of ibuprofen in India and globally. In the past, why are we not focused on increasing our share in the regulatory market and focusing more on the domestic market than [indiscernible] tiny competition is very low in the ibuprofen. So why have we focused more on the domestic part and less on the regulated markets?

We are already in the regulatory market as Europe and you can say in Latin American countries. Although our presence in the U.S. is very low, but we are getting same net sales utilization as compared to Europe with the U.S. So we primarily focus in the European market rather than U.S. market, but now we are again starting flooring U.S. market also.

Got it. So, what will be the split of exports and domestic within ibuprofen?

Exports is 34%.

For this quarter.

Exports sir?

Yes.

34%. Any -- like in the U.S. market, for example, like you said you're focusing maybe in the future to get into the U.S. market -- so what would be the realization difference like from the U.S. market versus market that you're focusing right now?

We can't comment on that because we have not a substantial share in the U.S. market as of now. But I think it may be almost equal to European market, maybe. But, I'm not sure.

Wishing you all the very best.

[Operator Instructions] We have the next question from [ Foran Parekh ] from B&K Research.

I just wanted to understand on the non-ibuprofen API, like what would be the EBIT margin? I mean, I see that pharma EBIT margin has almost 14%. So others API would we be clocking higher than this?

As of now, you can say single digit EBITDA margin as of now. But with the capacity enhancement fully utilization and getting the export market, we hope for improve [indiscernible] ibuprofen markets. As of now, [indiscernible] it is a thing that visit EBITDA margins.

So double digit -- because exports to European countries will start after 2 to 3 quarters. So can we expect double-digit margin in non ibuprofen APIs to begin after 2, 3, quarters?

Not sure.

I also see that pharma sales is doing very good, but yes of course, because of specialty chemicals decline, blended sales have almost been flat. And historically also have seen that there isn't much your growth in sales. So by when do you expect a good 4%, 5% growth in top line to begin with. We're already seeing a flat top line growth?

In this quarter, the major reason of stable or flat [indiscernible] revenues lower sales realization in chemicals.

Right. So this trend, do you see it evolving? Or we will continue because prices for chemicals are declining? And therefore, can we anticipate this kind of top line growth even in the upcoming quarters?

Our quantities is increasing. And especially in an non ibuprofen, but the revenue of chemical section and this non-ibu section has been affected by the lower sales utilization.

Additionally, you know that acetic anhydride have we added indeed in mid of June. So for the acetic anhydride sale around 40% after utilizing the captive consensus, will also go to the merchant market. So that will also add up to the top line.

Okay. Also, sir, can you comment on the CapEx? I mean, are we going to enter again INR 200 crore kind of CapEx in the system?

Even more than that. So we are planning around 250 -- INR 100 crore of CapEx.

Okay. And where will be you utilizing this CapEx?

CapEx will be utilized for the automization, improving the infra and the growth CapEx.

Okay. So any non-ibuprofen API capacity you're thinking of increasing like paracetamol you said utilizes grading at 90% utilized ratio. So though we have already doubled, but any more capacity do we intend to pull there?

Depending on the market response, and this is pretty early to comment on that. Maybe by the next quarter or in the third quarter, we are able to comment on the same.

Okay. And sir, I see your return ratios are very low. ROE is just 9% and yes, so when do we see this picking up? I mean, do you have -- work any numbers that you're going to achieve this kind of ROE going forward?

With the growth in export and we hope for an increasing number.

Okay. The number [indiscernible] internally...

Yes.

This is the benchmark that you want to achieve?

I think our performance for this whole financial year will be much better than the last financial year. So we assume that we will be able to achieve the target for this year as compared to the last financial year.

[Operator Instructions] We have a follow-up question from the line of Sheikh Mohamad Ayaz. He is an individual investor.

My question is that we have a restrategy for the Ethyl Acetate. So what other regulatory approvals you can achieve or get for the Ethyl Acetate?

On Europe it is sanctioned regularly for exporting to the European market. No other regulatory approval is required.

Are you exploring any other geography for that? Any approval for that?

We have already explored in the Middle East and African countries. So now we have started in Europe.

Okay. Sir, my question for that employee that wasn't answered. We -- currently are having 2,500 employees. Can you give the number of FY -- or the number of previously in FY '21, '22, how much employee you were having? And now how much we are having the number of employees?

As of now on 30th June, it was around 2,725 people in the world. And in '20 or '21 the numbers approximately around 1,500 to, 1,700.

And we were having around 2,300 in the March.

Okay. Okay. You have added 400 employees. Okay. That's great.

The next question is from the line of Mr. Mahesh Vyas from U.K. Mutual Fund.

Just one question on my side. Is this capacity utilization of about around 80% to 85% for ibuprofen is sustainable in the sense, the reason I think this question is because last April it was 55% to 70%. And this year, it's around 80% to 85% because of lower ibuprofen API prices or something which we can expect on a ongoing basis that utilization will be same.

As already explained in the call before that, we are expecting around 85% to 90% capacity as a full year. And as the prices are already bottom out in last year -- mid of last financial year. So we are not expecting any price decrease or demand increase in ibuprofen.

Do you have any other questions?

No.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Rashmik Ojha from [indiscernible].

Sir, my question was on CapEx. INR 250 crore of CapEx, how much is so growth CapEx this year, sir?

So as we already explained in the earlier call that we had -- I mean, at this moment, this is not very appropriate to talk about where we are investing in the growth CapEx. In the next or maybe third quarter, we will be in a better position to talk about the growth CapEx.

Okay.

So overall, the areas where we will be investing around INR 200 crore to INR 250 crore is the amount we have targeted for this year.

And only thing we need internal approval, not from any [indiscernible].

And sir, a related question, if you could help us because we're already running at -- we would be running at 85%, 90% utilization in ibuprofen, and paracetamol at 90%. What kind of capacity enhancement or expansion in terms of [indiscernible] time for the next 2 to 3 years?

So for ibu we are not considering any capacity enhancement as of now. And for paracetamol, we may think, but that will be depending on the market responses and the market and the approvals also because currently we got approval from -- for the paracetamol CEP approval. So it takes around 2, 3 quarters to explore that market. So everything will be depending on the responses we get from the regulated market. So that is why we are saying that by the end of the second quarter or maybe the third quarter, we will be in a better position to talk about the paracetamol capacity enhancement. But it's pretty early to talk about at this moment.

Sir, we are mostly backward integrated in both paracetamol and ibuprofen to a large extent, any new product or any new segments you're trying to get in for spending this growth CapEx?

We are having current short-listed products. The R&D is continuously working on all these products. And considering the viability and the market responses and the economies of scale, we will be coming out with the appropriate announcement after everything is finalized. So many things keep on going on, but the finalization will be done basically economies of scale through and the capacity of -- the company's capacity for going backward integration and the ability of the raw materials too. So it is early -- we would like to say anything on this when the things are finalized and decided by the Board also.

The next question is from the line of Neelam Punjabi from Perpetuity Ventures, LLC.

So my question is on the other API business. As you mentioned that we are targeting increase in regulatory sales after next 2 to 3 quarters. So -- and you mentioned that you're targeting INR 500 crore to INR 550 crore of revenue this year. Next year, what would be a growth target for this other API revenues?

Something around 20%, 25%. We have our internal targets, year-on-year basis.

And is it fair to assume that over the next 2 to 3 years, we can maintain the 20%, 25% growth rate?

For next 2 years, this is very early. And after 2 years, we will be analyzing again considering the capacity we have and what are the market shares we get.

Understood. Okay. My next question is on the Ethyl Acetate business. So earlier, you had mentioned that we are expanding some capacity to debottlenecking. So is that already done?

I mean, to some extent, it was done in the last financial year.

Got it. Okay. And lastly, was the net cash as of 30th June that we have?

Around 250 crore.

260 crore. It is INR 260 crore right on 30th June.

And last question is on the acetic anhydride plant. So incrementally, what kind of sales can we generate through merchant sales?

In the current year, we expect 70 crore in [indiscernible].

Got it. And at peak also, can we -- is this the same number, INR 70 crore, INR 80 crore or can it be higher?

It will be around INR 125 crore.

[Operator Instructions] As there are no questions, I would like to hand the conference over to Mr. Abhay Raj Singh for closing comments.

Thank you very much for joining us today and discussing our financial performance for the first quarter ended 30th June 2020. The last financial year was further prevalent for the world economy as well as for the sectors are company is. However, the underperformance of the sector and volatility was shortly. There is strong domestic demand in both sectors in the [indiscernible] [ RNP ]. We hope that the next quarter will bring in more value reasons for investors and the shareholders alike. Thanks a lot for attending this call. Have a nice day.

Participants if you have any questions or comments, you may reach out to as Adfactors PR. That concludes this conference. And thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.