IOL Chemicals and Pharmaceuticals Limited (524164) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q2 and H1 FY '24 Earnings Conference Call of IOL Chemicals and Pharmaceuticals Limited. For the management, we have Mr. Pardeep Khanna, Chief Financial Officer; Mr. Abhay Raj Singh, Senior VP and the Company Secretary; and Mr. Rakesh Mahajan, Adviser, Finance and Strategic. We also have an Investor Relations team from the Adfactors. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference call is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Darshan Mankad from Adfactors PR for the opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Lia. Good afternoon, everyone. We welcome you to the second quarter and first half ended September 30 Earnings Call of IOL Chemicals and Pharmaceuticals Limited. Before we begin the earnings call, I would like to mention that some of the statements made during today's call might be forward-looking in nature, and hence, it may involve risks and uncertainties, including those related to the future financial and operating performance. Please bear with us if there is a call drop during the course of the conference call, would ensure the call is reconnected the soonest. I now hand over the call to Mr. Rakesh Mahajan for his opening comments. Over to you, sir.

Thank you, Darshan. Good afternoon, everyone. And first of all, sorry for delay due to some technical glitches. A warm welcome to the second quarter and half year ended 30th September '23, earning conference call of the company. First of all, I would like to thank all of you for joining this call. Hope you all have gone through the results and the investor presentation available on our website and stock exchange's. Before we dive into the financial performance for this quarter and open up the floor for the question and answer sessions, we would like to briefly touch upon the economic and industry outlook. The global growth is [indiscernible] to slow down in calendar year '23 and with '24 as projected. The global outlet is reinforced by our ongoing consumer dynamism in the U.S., but faces pressures from China's worsening property crisis, tight persistence around the world, the consequences of Russia's war in Ukraine and the most recent conflict of Israel and Hamas and growing geoeconomic fragmentation. Despite a challenging global environment by Asia and the Pacific region remain a relative greater spot, it has reached [indiscernible] to contribute about 2/3 of global growth this year. Headline inflation has declined from post-pandemic peak as global commodity prices have seeded and the [indiscernible] policy has taken effect. India's economic growth remains robust, driven by large public capital venture push and resilient domestic demand. As for our Indian pharmaceutical sector is concerned, U.S. continue to show strong momentum led by easing of elevated price erosion, easing of input cost on raw material and price hike benefit by NLEM drugs by government allowing to 12.1% price increases in April '23. The recent deliberation on guidance by OT2 by center government on OT3 medicines will increase access to such medicines. We expect growing structural global opportunity entailing going into Indian APA players over the longer horizon. For the specialty chemical sector, pricing pressure has been persistent with Chinese dumping of chemical into a forward market globally to overcome their domestic weakness. Overall demand will be affected by the ongoing economic crisis, especially in Europe. There has been margin decline in [indiscernible] prices but volatilities persists with crude prices resuming their northward journey. With this update, I now hand over the call to my colleague, Mr. Pardeep, who will briefly -- who will brief you about the financials of our home for the quarter and first half of the financial year 2024. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Mahajan. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us today to discuss our performance for the second quarter and half year ended 30th September '23. I will take you through the financial highlights for the second quarter and first half of the financial year '23. The total income of the company in the second quarter of financial year '24 stood at INR 553 crore as against INR 546 crore in the corresponding quarter of the financial year '23 and INR 570 crore in the previous quarter ended June '23. EBITDA for the quarter was INR 71 crore as against INR 37 crore in the corresponding quarter of the financial year '23 and INR 80 crore in the previous quarter ended June '23. EBITDA margin for the quarter improved by 620 basis points to 12.9% as against 6.7% cost from this quarter of financial year '23, and 14% in the previous quarter ended June '23. The net profit in the second quarter of financial year '24 was INR 38 crore as against INR 15 crore in the corresponding quarter of the last year and INR 46 crore in the previous quarter ended June '23. Even of input costs and better realization, EBIT margin for the pharmaceutical payment was at 15% in quarter 2 of financial year '24, while EBIT margin for the Specialty Chemicals segment was 1.5% in quarter 2. The CapEx for the first half of the current fiscal is INR 114 crore, whereas it was INR 211 crore for the full financial year '23. With this, we open the floor for a question-and-answer session. Thank you very much.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Ketan from RoboCapital.

I wanted to know what will be the revenue and margin guidance for H2 FY '24 and FY '25 and '26?

The company is expecting revenue growth of around 10% every year. So we still maintain that revenue guidance in upcoming FY '24 and FY '25.

Okay. And margins will be how much?

Margin, the company has planned for around margin of 15% to 17% EBITDA margins.

For H2 or for full year?

For FY '24 and '25.

Okay. So right now, we are at some 13% to 14% margin for the first half. So can we expect a rate of 18% to 20% sort of to cover up for FY '24 from, say, Q3, can we expect...

There are some products which we are manufacturing. The prices are drastically down in the September quarter, which we expected as the demand is there. So we expect that the prices may likely to some extent, which will increase our bottom line.

Okay. And that will happen in Q3 or Q4?

Yes. We expect that.

Sorry, I did not catch that. By when do you say will that happen?

No, basically, Q3 will definitely be -- I think it will be similar to the Q2, but Q4 will be better than the Q3. So the most of the recovery will come into the Q4.

Okay. Got it. And what was the paracetamol utilization in this quarter? And are we planning for any expansion on that side?

For paracetamol, we are running at around 95% capacity, which we have recently increased to -- from 1,800 to 3,600. But the prices are aggressively down during that quarter, June and September quarter. But the capacity utilization is running at 90%, 95%.

Okay. And I mean, if you're raising 95% then, are we planning for further expansion?

As of now, we are considering various revenues, and we have come -- come back to you within next quarter.

Okay. Got it. And one last question. I just wanted to know if you are selling any non-Ibuprofen products in Europe?

Yes. We have already got the approvals from various European authorities and small amount of export has been started.

Okay. That has been started?

It may took 1 or 2 quarters more to increase the quantity in Europe.

Okay. So I guess that will also support our margin. Is that understanding, sir?

Yes. We will get some more export more -- we will sell more in 4 markets in these non-Ibu markets rather than selling domestically.

The next question is from the line of Neelam Punjabi from Perpetuity.

Sir, my first question is on our ibuprofen business. Could you help us understand what's the capacity utilization in the -- during the quarter?

The capacity utilization of ibuprofen remained at -- stable at around 90%.

Around 90% during the quarter. Okay. And our ibu business has been pretty strong with almost like 29% Y-o-Y growth during the first half. So are we expecting the revenues to sustain in the second half as well?

We hope it will be sustained.

Got it. What's the average pricing that we've realized in ibuprofen during the quarter?

It was remained at the same level, which was in June quarter and also remains in the September quarter at the same level.

Understood.

There is no substantial increase or decrease in the prices.

Got it. Sir, for the other API business, it's been down almost by 13% in Q2. So is it largely because of price decline in paracetamol?

Yes. It is primarily due to the -- our capacity of ibuprofen -- sorry, this paracetamol and the sale has increased essentially, but the price is more than 80%. So it affect our top line in terms of reduction in prices of paracetamol. To some extent, metformin prices are also corrected to some extent.

Could you quantify how much has the paracetamol and metformin prices declined, respectively, on a Y-o-Y basis?

Paracetamol, it was about 25%. And in case of metformin, I think it was around...

6% to 10%.

6% to 10%.

Got it. Okay. Any new products...

The price fall in the paracetamol is on an average basis. However, there has been very fluctuating prices during the whole quarter. So what Pardeep ji has told about is the average price reduction if he said during the whole quarter as compared to the last quarter.

Got it. And since you mentioned that the capacity utilization has gone up, is it fair to assume volume growth in both of these molecules has been decent like single-digit Y-O-Y?

Volume growth in paracetamol, yes, it is obviously there. And what other molecule you are asking?

Metformin.

I think it's -- It's stable.

Stable. Got it. And you had mentioned that we would want to start exporting to regulated markets in a couple of quarters. So any progress around that, if you could just share an update.

A little bit increase in export from the European market has already been started, and we are expecting that it will be increased further. These sample are already floating in various markets and various customers are interested -- has shown their interest, and we are expecting increase in volume for exporting Europe for our non-Ibu segment.

Got it. Sir, we have given a guidance of around INR 500 -- INR 550 crores of other API revenues in FY '24. And given the first half is at around INR 236 crores. Are we confident on maintaining this guidance because that would imply almost like a low teens kind of growth in the second half?

Yes. Neelam ji, surely, we are very hopeful about the meeting are the targets of around INR 500 crores non-Ibu business in this financial year. And I think we are approximately half of the way. So a little bit is to be -- better recovery will be there in the third quarter and fourth quarter. Maybe we can cross the 500 mark.

Got it. And sir, for the next 2 to 3 years for this other API business, could you give us a directional guidance as to what kind of growth rates can we expect for non-ibuprofen APIs for FY '25, '26, next 2 years?

We are having the similar guidance we've given in the last quarter. We expect around 20% to 25% the non-Ibu business growth for the next 2 to 3 financial year.

Great. That's helpful. Next on the chemicals business. So this top line has been flat on a Y-o-Y basis. And as I look at your EBIT margins for this segment, it has come off during the quarter. So could you help us understand what's the reason behind it? And we had also a commercialized acetic anhydride facility during the quarter. So -- I mean, what's the sales of that and why has it not reflected in the overall segment numbers?

First of all, regarding ethyl acetate. Ethyl acetate, the major on -- for ethyl acetate is acetic acid, which was again very volatile in this quarter, especially in the September month. So that is one of the reason. Plus prices almost remain the same, which were earlier in the month of -- in the quarter of June itself. But the volatility in the raw material prices affected the bottom line of ethyl acetate. As regarding acetic anhydride, we have commercialized it and started selling to the market also. Around 40% of our present production has been selling to the domestic market as we are entering to the new segment and new customers. In the prices, the sale is already in the chemical sector -- shown in the Chemical segment. But the level which remain the same for the 2 quarters due to the reduction in prices of ethyl acetate primarily.

What would be your current realizations in the ethyl acetate? What's the price for that right now?

It is around $1 to $1.1.

Got it. Okay. And what's the current pricing on acetic acid?

It almost remain equivalent to ethyl acetate prices.

Okay. Understood. Lastly, on the other expenses. So this has gone up to almost like INR 79 crores during the quarter. Are there any one-offs during the quarter? Or what has led to this increase in other expenses?

Actually, the reason of the expenses are due to power and fuel -- increase in power and fuel costs. There are 2 or 3 reasons to increase in the power and fuel expenses. It is due to start of operation of acetic anhydride, so power and the steam and gas consumed in acetic anhydride production. And second reason is due to shut down in the boiler, which leads to a purchase of power from outside at high cost. This is one of the reasons. And due to seasonal effect also in the second quarter, liquidity cost is on the higher side due to the major increase in power and fuel expenses in the second quarter.

Okay. So we can expect this to sustain in the coming quarters then.

I think in the coming quarter, it will decrease.

Decrease slightly.

Decrease the power and fuel expenses. So ultimately lead to decrease in the other expenses.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Akash from MT Asset Management.

A couple of questions. Starting with the Chemical segment. EBIT segment -- EBIT margins appear to be quite low. Is that because of the internal consumption? Or I mean, what's the normal kind of margins you would expect for chemicals?

For internal consumption, we have seen that around INR 80 crores have been shifted from chemical to API -- the reason -- which is classified as the cost price only. That may be one of the reason. And secondly, as I already explained the prices volatility in acetic acid prices.

This is a major...

I understand, but what would you expect to be the normal EBIT margins for this segment over the longer term?

It is single digit. I think not more than that.

Yes. I mean, currently, it's low single digits. So I mean, where do you think it should be...

From the last -- 3, 4 year, it is -- 2, 3 years, it is around 6% to 8%.

Okay. I understand. And second, I was just curious that you report that you have 35% global market share for ibuprofen, but your share -- sales to regulated market is relatively small. So how does the dynamics work in terms of your market share for regulated versus nonregulated markets?

Okay. Except the U.S. market where we have very low market share. We are selling our ibuprofen since quite a long period in Europe and Latin America and other regulative markets, where we hold good market share in regulated -- except U.S. But now we are trying flooring various opportunities -- various flows with our market in U.S. also, and we may start to increase some share in U.S. also. But till date -- more share of export is from the regulatory market is from Europe and Latin America.

Okay. Any particular constraints you have faced in the past for the U.S. market?

No, no. No constraints. We are getting good net realization sale utilization from Europe market rather than getting it from U.S. market.

I understand. And who are the key competitors in the U.S., if you could mention?

There is one major player which is producing in U.S. that is BASF.

All right. Understood. And also finally, could you talk about your capacity expansion plans, which are going on now or say likely to be for the next 2 to 3 years?

We have recently added one product in our Chemical segment. That is an acetic anhydride. The project was completed in the June quarter itself. And now we are increasing some CapEx on infrastructure, the additional infrastructure like boilers, which we have recently added one more and more focus of infrastructure in CapEx on green chemistry and environmental activities. And what -- we have some plan on our growth capital, both in chemical and API division, which we may upgrade everyone in the due course. But our plan for increasing of CapEx company has around INR 200 crores, almost INR 200 crore in this financial year and the same likely in the upcoming 2 years.

Understand. And that includes the capacity expansion for ibuprofen as well because you said you're operating at almost 90% utilization?

Capacity was expanded in around 4 years back, and we are still playing on the debt capacity of 12,000 tonnes. We have not increased our capacity since last 3, 4 years.

Okay. But do you plan to going forward?

As of now, we are not thinking about. We are more focusing on non-Ibu segment. But if any situation comes, we are ready to expand immediately with the equity integration. We have [indiscernible] For us to increase in a very short period.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Mohammad Ayaz, an individual investor.

Congratulations for the good results year-on-year. Sir, I just want to ask you if we consider one best quarter and one bad quarter, what that quarter would be according to your business?

Sir, can you repeat your question? I didn't hear you.

This quarter -- if I ask you one best quarter and one bad quarter, what quarter that would be means 1, 2, 3, 4 like that September quarter or...

So I mean, best quarter, every quarter, we hope that they will be better than the previous quarter. But I can say the bad quarter was the Q2 last financial year was the bottom down -- where we bottomed down. And Q3 last financial year was better. The Q4 was also better. Q1 and the Q2 are also better considering the overall the market situation of our industry. So we cannot say this is the best, but we can identify the second quarter of the last fiscal year was not good.

Okay. In terms of seasonality, June, September, December and March according to your business nature...

Think about good quarter and the bad quarter within one financial year?

Yes. Yes. Yes. right.

If I say in that respect, every financial year, Q2 remains on the lower side and the Q4 remain on the higher side.

Okay. Sir, another question is we have filed 12 DMF for the -- 12 DMF applications. So I want to ask how many time it takes to get approval for that DMF?

How much?

Time it takes from the regulated authority to get approval for DMF?

Basically, this is the process where we filed a DMF or DMF is -- 6 already evaluated and ready for references, whereas 6 DMF are under evaluation process.

Okay. So if you get DMF for a few drugs, do you we have only 1 DMF for ibuprofen, am I right?

We have filed 12 DMF, but we would get the approval for [indiscernible] that is the ibuprofen since 2005-'15.

And metformin is also approved by the -- without having the inspection done by the U.S. FDA. So in any case, any drug regulator is looking for importing from us that will be considered as the U.S. FDA approved.

Okay. Metformin [indiscernible].

That is -- available. This is for all the manufacturers who wish to buy the metformin from us also.

So what is the difference between the DMF margins and the normal margins?

See the process is that like we follow the DMF and then the regulator follows the ANDA file and when the ANDA file is approved, that ANDA has the drug descriptions of IOL, all these files are when approved. So there is the possibility at the end of the U.S. regulatory either they can approve it after inspection or if they think that this is not required, the facility already visited by the U.S. FDA in the past, and they are satisfied with that, they can also approve any product without inspecting it physically.

Okay. What are the margin difference between normal or DMF-approved drugs. And so Oxford and regular -- non-regulated margins, for metformin.

Yes. In domestic, the prices are quite low, which may differ the prices and regulator market increased ranging around 20% to 50% also in the -- depending on the product and product profile. Like -- the prices domestically, it is maybe $50 to $60, but in regulated markets, prices may be going to $85 to $90.

Can you repeat that again?

This is just an example. When the domestic prices for non-Ibu portfolio, the prices increase and the difference between the prices domestically and regulatory market, maybe different from 20% to 50% depending upon the product. And as I gave one example of [indiscernible] which in India, it is being sold at $50 to $60. But in the export market -- in the regulatory market, it may range to $80 to $90 per kg. -- depending on the regulations.

Okay, sir. Sir, another one question I'm having. Sir, any positive development from CPHI Barcelona?

Yes. We have set up one stall there. And our team will remain there for the whole event. And they told us that they have expected to get very good response there also. And I think...

And in fact, there were 213 companies participated for the Sitagliptin process, and there was some event wherein our company was within the top 5. It was IOL process was within the top 5 best processes, which we have already precured -- patent on this. So we were the finalist in that event -- in the CPHI against out of the 213 companies.

That's a great achievement. Sir, any update for that Sitagliptin process? Are you planning to introduce a product or it will take some time?

So basically, this depends on the market viability and the overall commercial economic liability to the company. We have got a very clean and greener process developed for the Sitagliptin. And we are working on it if all these parameters, EBIT margin and the economical is viable to the company, we'll definitely start this, but this is just the study we've done. Nothing final decision has been taken on it so far.

So chemical quarter has been low in this quarter. Is there any improvement we can see in Q3 and Q4 in terms of profitability?

Yes. Sorry, can you please repeat because your voice was echoing. We were not able to understand this.

Okay. My question is, we have seen low profit margin in chemical sector in this quarter. Can we see any improvement in Q3 and Q4?

Yes, definitely, yes. Q3 and Q4 historically remains better for the chemicals vertical for the company.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Neeraj, an individual investor.

I just wanted to know you mentioned that we'll have a CapEx of approximately INR 200 crores to INR 250 crores for current financial year. So any guidance for future CapEx? Let's say, for the next 3, 4 years, what would be the tentative CapEx we have planned? And what would be the breakup in terms of chemical in an API business? I mean how much will go in chemicals and how much will go in API business?

So the guidance for the next 2, 3 years is on the similar pattern that last year, we did around INR 200 crores, more than the INR 200 crores. This year, we have a planning for INR 200 crores. Out of this INR 200 crore already, we incurred INR 115 crores. So next 2 to 3 years, we are having the similar plan for having the CapEx. And this CapEx majorly will be in the growth CapEx, and this may be divided into -- in any proportionate depending on the market and the products we finalize. So this is pretty early to say that -- which -- how much CapEx will be used in a particular product or this segment?

Okay. What would be the current...

Major part of it will remain towards the growth CapEx.

Growth CapEx. Okay. What would be our current spend in R&D? And what would be it in terms of overall revenue? R&D spend would be what percentage of our overall revenue? And what are our plans on R&D?

So we are having the moderate R&D expenses. Our R&D expenses ranges from 2% to 3% of overall turnover, that is for the CapEx only, R&D CapEx.

Any other plans in the future to increase the R&D budget?

Yes, yes. We are working on it. And we will come out with the appropriate announcement in this regard at an appropriate time.

What is the current position of cash and debt?

The company is totally debt free. In terms of term loan. And further, we have not raised any debt since 2017. And as of now, we have bank balance of around...

More than INR 250 crore.

INR 250 crores.

Okay. Any CapEx we have planned where we intend to raise debt?

As of now, no, because whatever the CapEx we are doing for the last 2, 3 years also is being done through internal accruals only.

Okay. So going forward, in the next 2, 3 years also, we are planning that we'll spend around INR 200 crores to INR 250 crores?

Definitely, yes. Definitely, yes. We have the projections and the estimates relating to the CapEx. The cash generation from the business is more than what we are looking to invest into the CapEx.

Okay. So we can say safely that in next 2, 3 years also, we would not need any debt?

No, no, no. The other -- earlier so many times that we are not -- we said that we are not going for any substantial debt.

The next question is from the line of Praveen Sharma from Sharma Investments.

I just wanted to understand how is the impact of Chinese economy on our business expected to be for the current quarter and for H2?

For China, there is -- like in our pharma segment, especially Ibu, we are not dependent on China. And for non-Ibu segment to some extent, we're dependent on China, but China play a critical role in our chemical also and this metformin also. Their policies remain unknown to everyone. And there's when they go for increasing prices, reduction in prices, no one knows. It impacted all our industry. But as we have airy ordered some chemicals and placed the order for chemical from China for our upcoming 2 quarters. So we are hoping that we may not be impacted badly for import of chemicals from China for the upcoming half year.

Got it. Got it. I also would like to ask, in case you could throw some color on which new products will be contributing for growth in EBITDA? If you could give some -- inform that as well.

See, overall equity of the non-Ibu products, they are contributing, and they all will start contributing in a better bid with the passage of time and increase in the capacity utilization. So we have 3, 4 products. And we also -- we are having a good amount of the filing in the regulated markets. We are receiving the CET -- we received the CET during the first quarter for this paracetamol. So as in the earlier questions, we responded that we are getting the good responses from the customers from the regulated market. Whenever our exports will increase to the regulated market for the non-Ibu products, our EBITDA margin, I mean the contribution from these 2, 3 non-Ibu products will increase our EBITDA margin. It will be contributed in a significant manner.

Also paracetamol and metformin are doing well in the market.

The next question is from the line of Anuj Panwar from Family Office.

I just have two quick questions. My first one is, can we look at the margin sustaining at the current levels or improving for the rest of the year? And my second question is...

It will improve.

Yes. Yes, you can go ahead.

So margin, what you are asking, if I understood you correctly [indiscernible] next 2 quarters, whether the margin will remain same or it will improve. This is your question?

Yes, that is correct.

Yes. So we are very much hopeful that the margin we -- we have, for the 6 months will definitely improve in the next 6 months.

Okay. And do we have any plans to increase the ibuprofen facility? Also like any time to go beyond the 35% global market share?

I already discussed during the call, we are -- as of now, we have not planned for that. So all section of ibuprofen, but we are ready with the -- our spending ready with the -- we have already got when any opportunity come, we will that hope to increase our capacity along with the fully integrations of raw materials in ibuprofen. But still, we are running at around 90% capacity. As of now, we have not planned, but we have worked out how to come increase the capacity within short period of maybe 6 months or 3 months. We are ready with that plan.

The next question is from the line of Mohammad Ayaz, an individual investor.

Sir, when can you expect Mr. Vikas Vij onboard?

Actually, he was traveling. When -- he was there in CPHI also. And again from there, he went to some client and he is expected to come back tomorrow most probably. So we -- let's wait and next quarter we'll think about that.

Yes. I hope I'd like to host -- we would like to love to host him in the conference call.

I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rakesh Mahajan for closing comments.

Thank you very much for joining us today and discussing our second quarter and half year ended 30th September 2023 performance. The company continues its tragic focus to diversify in every ways with strong domestic demand in both sectors and [indiscernible] integration. The next quarter or next half year will bring in on more value addition put investor and shareholders. Thank you very much again for attending this call. Have a nice day. Thank you.

Thank you. On behalf of IOL Chemicals and Pharmaceuticals Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.