Italgas S.p.A. (IG) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon. This is the Chorus Call conference operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the Italgas First Quarter 2025 Results Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Anna Maria Scaglia, Head of IR of Italgas. Please go ahead, madam.

Good morning, good afternoon to everyone and thank you for joining us. I'm here with Paolo Gallo, our CEO; and Gianfranco Amoroso, our CFO. We will address today the first quarter 2025 results and any questions you might have at the end of the call. And I leave now the floor to our CEO. Just I invite you to read the disclaimer on Page 2 of the presentation. So Mr. Gallo.

Thank you, Anna Maria. Good afternoon to everyone. We are starting from the presentation from the status of the 2i Rete Gas acquisition. As you know, because it has been announced, we closed the deal on April 1, 2025. And I think the good thing is that we were able to close the deal ahead of schedule, because if you think about that, we were able to get to closing just 11 months after we announced the starting of the negotiation with the shareholder of 2i and only 6 months after reaching the agreement on the -- for the acquisition of the 2i. I think it's a very extremely competitive period. In these 6 months, we have worked very hard in order to complete all the condition precedent, among which the most important was the antitrust approval. And we -- after we obtain all those condition precedent and all those authorization, we were able to close. As I said several times, I think that has been a historical milestone for the group. It's a deal that it's positive, will bring extraordinary value not only to Italgas shareholders, but to all the industry itself. As you know, we have created the European champion, the largest in size and the most advanced in terms of technology that is capable to work actively on the energy transition. I would like to thank everybody that has been working in these months in order to be successful in this deal, and I would like to welcome all our colleagues from 2i Rete Gas that has joined us in -- since April 1. We are extremely excited about the future that we can build together. But now -- and now it's already started on April 2. Work has already started. And we have a very tight milestone, that is July 1, when 2i Rete Gas will merge with Italgas Reti. I think it's the first and the most important milestone in the coming months. In order to reach this milestone, we are working very hard about reorganization at the corporate and operational level and, you can imagine, at the IT system integration. That will let us reach in the first synergy, the ones that we have described in details during our strategic plan. I think they are very important. And the things that we are ahead of schedule, I think it's a very good signal. And we will talk about that when we will talk about the guidance. But let me also talk about the increased capital. We hope to complete it by the end of the first semester, and therefore, we are working also hard in that direction to be able to complete that. As well, we have already started on all the activities that are linked to the antitrust remedies. We are fully on schedule. I don't know whoever look about the decision of the antitrust. If you have looked, you have noticed that there is a very tight schedule in order to reach around end of October the completion of the activity. We are, as I said, fully on schedule. We have already appointed the monitoring trustee. That was the first step. That has been approved by the antitrust too. So now we are working in order to -- as a second step, to publish the invitation for anyone who is willing or is interested to buy the portion of the network, the redelivery point that we are going to sell under the remedies requested by the antitrust. But now let's go -- let's move to the numbers of the first quarter. Let me underline that this first quarter of 2025 does not have -- I'm underlying this point -- does not have any 2i Rete Gas contribution considering that the closing has been reached on April 1. So that is fully comparable with the first quarter of 2024. And here, it is listed the changes that we have recorded in the first quarter. And despite the fact that the WACC has been significantly reduced from 6.5% of 2024 to 5.9% this year, result has been extremely positive, as you can see. And it's positive from all the area, from all the businesses, starting, of course, from gas distribution, I will speak in a moment why, Greece, water and energy efficiency. You also need to consider that after a long time, finally, there were -- some of the gaps in the regulation that happened in the past year have been closed with the latest 2 -- decision by the authority and that are incorporated in -- they are incorporated in these numbers. Some of them are onetime numbers, and therefore, are only incorporated into reported numbers. And that's the reason why you see the adjustment one. Nevertheless, the net income at the adjusted level increased by more than 12% despite higher financing costs and taxes, confirming the goodness -- the good and the resilience of our growth trajectory. Another element that is extremely positive is the fact that the debt has been reduced by more than EUR 200 million in the first quarter, benefiting from the solid cash flow from operation. Let's move on, on the CapEx side. If you look at the CapEx side, the amount of CapEx that has been invested in the first quarter is slightly higher than the first quarter of 2024. It is -- we have reached 165 -- EUR 166 million. It shows a stable investment in the network and repurposing, which led to the installation of 140 kilometers of new pipes, more than 50% in Greece. And of course, you will see less spending at least in this quarter in digitalization area because the project in terms of digital transformation of our asset has nearly been completed. We have seen some other CapEx increasing like the -- what we are spending in our headquarter in Torino about the refurbishment of the area. If we look at the environmental performances on the next page, you will see the energy consumption and the Scope 1, 2 emission. Let's start from the energy consumption, which was up by nearly 5% versus last year. The increase is mainly related to lower winter temperature that increased the amount of the gas that has been distributed during the first quarter in respect of the first quarter of 2024 with slightly higher specific consumption. We expect this trend to revert in the coming quarter as the temperature normalize. Electricity consumption was lower due to the higher use of auto produced electricity. And if we focus on the vehicle consumption, there is a slightly increase in the net energy consumption, mainly related for the Greek component due to the fact that there are new areas that have been added in terms of methanization, and therefore, we need some more kilometer in terms of operation. If you look at emission, of course, whatever has been consumed more in terms of energy has a normal reflection into the additional CO2 emitted. And regarding the major increase that is relevant to gas leakages, there are 2 reasons why we see such increase. The first one that is the major driver is that 21% kilometers more have been surveyed, and that's good because, of course, we will see over the year that the number of leakages will significantly be reduced. We have surveyed the area that in '24 and '23 were the area where we find out the major leaks, and therefore, we focus our attention on that. And the second reason why is that we are aligning ourselves very quickly to the new European methane emission regulation that is extremely strict. Now let's move to look at the total revenues. If we look at the total revenues, we have split the difference between last year and this year. As you can see, the reduction of the Italian WACC is significant, but has been compensated by what is the EUR 26 million. Let me try to explain. We'll see also in the following slide some more explanation. If you remember, in -- especially in 2022, '23 and '24, we always discuss about the fact that the regulation has not only a time delay in recognizing the inflation level, but also there was a significant gap in the inflation -- in the real inflation in respect to the ones recognized to us. And in fact, what happened is that the regulator reviewed the so-called deflator, now it's called reevaluation factor, aligning it to -- let me say, to the -- more to the inflation that you can see in the market. And it reviewed the 2023 and 2024 numbers. And that has represented for us an increase at the end of 2024 of the total RAB of EUR 150 million over the EUR 9.1 billion of RAB. And because that review has been carried for 2023 and 2024, we have accounted the delta that is coming from the additional RAB in terms of tariff. And that represents about EUR 60 million. At the same time, the application of the X-factor in 2025 has been such that the inflation applied to the OpEx is equal. So the 2 elements -- the sum of the 2 elements, one negative, the X-factor, and one positive, inflation is equal to 0. And then as you remember, there has been a long journey about the review of the decision that the regulator made back, if you remember, in December 2019 about the OpEx level and the X-factor level for the regulation period. Finally, after the decision of the Consiglio di Stato, ARERA finally reviewed the decision they made at that time, and that represents about EUR 4 million of OpEx recovery. I should not forget the fact that in the quarter our RAB increased thanks to the investment we made last year either in Greece and in Italy, and therefore, there is also a significant contribution of the RAB increase. The other elements represent the water contribution coming from Acqua Campania. I should remind you that in the first quarter 2024 -- Acqua Campania was only consolidated in 1st of February, so 2 months instead of 3. So there is a difference of 1 month. And then I'm very happy to say that the energy efficiency is growing again. As we have forecasted, 2024 has been a tough year for the energy efficiency due to the fact that the super bonus completely disappeared. And now we are rebuilding the business. And you can see, again, growing in -- not only in revenues, but also in the margin. If we move to the next slide, you have some more details about the 2 resolutions adopted by the regulator. The one -- the so-called Resolution 87 is the one that goes back to 2019 when in December ARERA issued the new level of OpEx and the new level of X-factor that we challenge in the court and we win either at the [ Tribunale Amministrativo ] and at the Consiglio di Stato. So finally, they review it. And in that case, we have 2 elements: what has been recognized to us for the past, 2020-2024, that has been considered in the reported numbers, but not in the adjusted number. So we consider them as special items. And of course, what has been considered for 2024 that I mentioned to you before that are equal to EUR 4 million. The second resolution is the one that I discussed already, is the reevaluation criteria for the RAB. As I said, it is more consistent with the real inflation that we experienced and we will experience for the future, and it recovers 2023 and 2024 RAB, and that has been accounted, as I said before. Let's move, and then I will leave the floor to Gianfranco, looking at the OpEx side. As you can see, on a like-for-like basis, we were able to reduce our cost by 1% in respect of the previous year. And the addition are relevant to Acqua Campania, the famous months that I mentioned to you before in terms of revenues, and the additional cost in the energy efficiency that are driven by the additional revenues that we recorded in the first quarter. Gianfranco, now is your turn.

Thank you, Paolo. Now we will comment the evolution of the EBITDA and the EBIT. As far as the EBITDA, the growth has been of about 6% compared to first quarter of last year. The main contributor to this growth has been, as in the past, the gas distribution with a positive contribution of EUR 15.1 million. Then we have the contribution provided by the water sector and Geoside, this EUR 4.5 million, of which EUR 2.5 million are due to the additional month of consolidation of Acqua Campania, as Paolo explained before, compared to last year. If we look at the absolute value of EUR 345 million end of March '25, the composition of that figures is that the main portion is for the Italian gas distribution with about EUR 300 million of EBITDA or about 87% of the total. The remaining is split between Enaon with around EUR 34 million, and the water and Geoside for about EUR 11 million. The main difference that you can appreciate between the growth of the EBITDA and the EBIT, where EBIT has a growth of 17% compared to last year, is mainly due to the depreciation, as you can see from the chart. In particular, in the quarter, we have a positive contribution, quite unusual for depreciation. That is due to the fact that the concession of Rome, as you know, has expired last November. So in this number, this year, you do not have any more the depreciation linked to this concession. The value of this discontinuation of the depreciation is about EUR 21 million. And as you can see, since the value is EUR 13 million positive, it means that there is a difference of around EUR 8 million due to the increase in this case of the depreciation linked to the carryover of the CapEx executing during the previous quarters. So moving to the following page, talking about net profit adjusted. The growth is double digit of about 13% compared to last year first quarter. On this, I will mainly focus on the evolution of the net financial expenses and of the tax rate. For the financial charges, we have an increase of EUR 7.5 million in terms of cost. That is mainly due to 2 different elements. The carryover effect of the instruments that we issued in 2024 in February and in September. So we have basically 1 month more for the instrument of February and 3 months for the instrument of September. And then for -- and this is about EUR 5 million. Then we have for EUR 1.2 million the new -- the impact of the new bond that we have issued at the beginning of March, the dual tranche that, as I said, is for 1 month and accounts for EUR 1.2 million. As far as you have seen in the press release, there is also a bridge loan that has been drawn, but has been drawn in the last day of the quarter in light of the closing of the 1st of April. So you do not have any P&L impact in these figures of EUR 7.5 million that I'm commenting. For the net income coming from equity investment, there is a number that is negative for EUR 1.3 million. It is due to the quarterly results of Siciliacque and Acqualatina mainly. Interesting comment about the tax rate is coming back to a normal level of 27.4%, which is, let's say, compared to the 27.8% of 2024, not considering the impact of the patent box. Otherwise, the tax rate would have been -- the actual tax rate has been 24.8%. So in line with the tax rate of the full year 2024. If we move to the following Slide 12, I will skip it because it's basically a recap of the trends that we -- that Paolo and myself we have already commented. More interesting is the comparison with Slide 13, when -- where you have the impact of the adjustments. The first at the level of the revenues is a EUR 54.4 million adjustment linked to the Resolution -- to the impact of the Resolution 87 concerning the allowed OpEx and the amendment recognized by the regulator for the portion that covers the period 2020 until '24. Then going down, after the EBIT, there is the adjustment of EUR 1.3 million that is related to a portion of -- the impact of the portion of the upfront fees paid with the bridge loan and, as you know, the bridge loan that I commented before that has been drawn the last day of the quarter linked to the acquisition of 2i Rete Gas. The tax impact of the items above accounts for approximately EUR 50 million, and then the impact correlated to the minorities is EUR 2.1 million, the impact correlated to the adjustment of the EUR 54.4 million basically. If we move to the cash flow. This is -- the cash flow for the quarter can be considered as a very positive evolution. In particular, we -- the operational cash flow of EUR 412 million allowed us to reduce the indebtedness of more than EUR 200 million in the quarter, which is a level that can be considered very satisfactory. In particular, the cash flow has benefited of the positive performance at the level of net income that we have already commented. And also the working capital has had the positive impact of, let's say, a good evolution in terms of volume of gas sold. So in addition to the usual seasonality, you know that in this quarter, normally in each year, there is the higher percentage of cash flow generated from the gas distribution, coupled with a favorable evolution of the volumes, allowed us to exceed EUR 100 million of positive contribution of the working capital. This is, of course, not structural for the whole year, but it's a positive outcome if you compare this quarter to the quarters of the previous years. The CapEx -- the operational cash flow of more than EUR 400 million has fully covered, of course, the net CapEx of EUR 226 million. And then with some minor adjustments of around EUR 20 million with non-cash items, you arrive to the reduction of net debt of more than EUR 200 million. The net debt, as you can see in the following page, in Page 15, reached in the quarter EUR 6.56 billion, including IFRS 16, or EUR 6.47 billion, excluding IFRS 16. The financial structure remains, as you can see, very consistent with the past. Also the last debt instrument issued in the quarter are consistent with the strategy to have more than 80%, approximately almost 90% of debt at fixed rate in order to allow also to give visibility to our cost of debt going forward. Of course, market condition in the refinancing exercise follow the condition of the [indiscernible] evolution of the rates of the market. So the cost of debt in the quarter is now around 1.7%. Just to remind also the new bond issued in -- at the beginning of March with a dual tranche for 5 year and 9 year, the 5-year has a coupon of 2.875%, while 9-year has a coupon of 3.5%. This new debt, notwithstanding, as I said, the market -- the evolution of the market rates, allowed us to keep the cost of debt in the region of the 1.7% that I previously commented. Now we'll leave again the floor to Paolo for the final remarks and the guidance.

Thanks, Gianfranco. Now I would like just to show you the guidance. As we said -- during the previous conference call when we presented the numbers for 2024, we promised that the guidance would have breakeven at the first quarter result. And here we are. Let me, first of all, clarify that the guidance includes the contribution of 2i Rete Gas for 9 months, so from April to December, and assumes the completion of the antitrust disposal process in 2025, mainly in October 2025. So fully in line with the schedule requested by the antitrust. But we expect that the related impacts, the related numbers of the dismission -- the dismissal will materialize in early -- in January, February, maximum, 2026. I think it is also important to underline the fact that we expect the deal to be EPS accretive already in 2025. We have made this calculation assuming the application of scenario IAS 33 accounting principle, and is calculating versus the scenario without 2i Rete Gas, so Italgas stand-alone. If we look at the numbers, the adjusted revenues -- so adjusted revenues means that we do not consider the reimbursement coming from the regulator for the years 2020-2024 related to review of the OpEx. So those numbers are not included into the total revenues, are approximately EUR 2.45 billion. The EBITDA will range between EUR 1.8 billion and EUR 1.85 billion. EBIT -- the range of the EBIT will be between EUR 1.12 billion and EUR 1.16 billion, and technical investments are in the range of EUR 1.2 billion. Finally, we expect that the net debt will be below EUR 11 billion at the end of the year. As I said, considering no impact -- or considering the fact that the materialization of the dismissal following the antitrust request will see an impact only at the beginning of 2026. Thank you for listening, and we are open to questions you may have -- to any questions you may have.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from Aleksandra Arsova from Equita.

A couple of questions on my end. Just maybe a follow-up on the guidance you just presented. So maybe can you provide us with some more color or details on the -- let's say, on the moving parts and components? So what is the exact contribution of 2i Rete Gas you expecting for the 9 months of '25 and also maybe the other main businesses? And the second one is linked to the first one. You mentioned that you, of course, are already starting to work together with 2i Rete Gas in order to deliver efficiencies and synergies. So what level, if any, of synergies you already incorporate in the '25 guidance?

Well, let me start from the second question. As I said, we made a fairly deep analysis about the evolution of the year. And as I said at the beginning, we are expecting the first synergies to happen. We are in the range, let me say, about EUR 10 million, taking more or less. So I give you a round number. And those are -- those synergies are ahead of what we were expecting. The reason being is that the schedule -- we are ahead of schedule. The fact that starting from July 1 there will be only one company, is the merging between Italgas Reti and 2i Rete Gas. And therefore, is going to be, let me say, quicker to generate the synergy. The contribution of 2i Rete Gas, we don't normally give such details during the guidance. You can -- let me say, you can work a little bit on our quarter and then you can eventually evaluate by yourself, which is the contribution, that, of course, is positive. The fact that I tell you that the deal is accretive already in 2025 is a signal that the contribution of 2i Rete Gas -- let me say, the sum -- let me say differently, that the sum of 12 months of Italgas plus the 9 months of 2i Rete Gas is not just a matter of sum, it's a little bit more than the sum.

The next question is from Javier Suarez from Mediobanca.

Three questions on my side. The first one is on the changes after the -- your latest business plan presentation in October. So there has been important regulatory papers, including a new WACC, a new deflator, the retroactive revision of unitary OpEx, antitrust decision on disposal and several things. So it's much more a question that has to do with a directional answer much more than a numerical answer. But how these changes compare with your latest expectations that you are guiding for a net income CAGR at 13%, EPS CAGR at 10%. So if you can a little bit elaborate on the different moving pieces and the impact versus your previous expectations or movement versus your previous expectations, that would be helpful. Then second question is on the synergies. I'm looking at Slide #9 and looking at the like-for-like efficiencies that continues to go down. So if you can elaborate and help us to understand from where these efficiencies are coming from? I'm particularly interested in the process of extracting synergies from the operation of the asset in Greece. And yes, the details on where do you see that number of like-for-like efficiencies maybe by the year-end? And the third question is on the efficiency energy business. It has caught my attention the fact that this activity is growing again. So if you can please elaborate on the reason behind this after the end of the incentives.

Okay. Regarding the first question, you're right. There has been some changes in respect of the assumption we made in the strategic plan and are relevant, of course, to 2025. As you know, we assumed a certain level of WACC in the strategic plan that was declared. Unfortunately, that WACC finally approved by the regulator is lower by 20 basis points. So in the elaboration of the guidance, we have considered that, as well as we have considered the review of the RAB -- now it's called reevaluation factor; let's call it in the old way, deflator, that in that case is a positive contribution. We have considered the OpEx review, not the recognition of the -- we call special items from 2020 to 2024. So let me say that that is the basis that have been considered to arrive to the guidance. If we look, let me say, at the future, I will tell you -- we will tell you something more in October when we will present the new strategic plan. And that will be also useful, because in the meantime -- you remember that in 2026 there will be a new regulatory cycle. Starting new regulatory cycle, we will have, let me say, the first elements coming from -- probably from the first consultation document that the regulator will issue, we imagine, we expect before summertime. So we -- to tell you how the new strategic plan will look like in comparison with the one that we presented in October, then it's hard to say now. We will tell you more in detail in October. Regarding the synergies, you are always surprised every quarter about our synergy. After 33 quarter of surprise, you should be okay. You should be surprised if we are not making the synergies anymore. The synergy -- I'm talking about the efficiency of Italgas and not the synergy. Synergy is another matter. How we can -- we are able to achieve those synergies, as I told you many times, is not one single subject or 2 subjects or 3 subjects, 3 topics, 4 topics. That is dozen of topics involved by the digital transformation that are able to reduce maybe with small numbers. But when you have dozen of topics that reduce the cost even by a small amount of money, if you sum all the small amount of money, you make a number that still is quite important. Regarding Greece, Greece is moving quite fast toward -- if you go back about 2 strategic plan, not last year, but the previous year, you remember there was an ambition about Greece to bring the level of efficiency of Greece closer or aligned with what we have in Italy. We are exactly on that path. So if you want to go back to that curve that I remember was in orange, and you take back -- and you look back at that curve, you can put us on that curve exactly. So we are heading toward being Greece as efficient as our gas distribution in Italy. Finally, on the energy efficiency, that is something that we told you last year. Last year, we told you don't worry about the energy efficiency business. 2024 will be very bad for them because we don't have the super bonus anymore. But 2024 will be a transitional year in a sense that we will work hard to restart activity in 3 main areas: industries, so providing energy efficiency services to the industry, and we did it. Providing energy efficiency services to the public administration. We made some offer. Let's see how it will go on. And the third area that, in fact, is growing is providing energy efficiency services to the large condominium. So we restarted also in that direction. So we are rebuilding a very stable and very solid business that will not last a couple of years like the super bonus, but will last for longer. And the good thing is that the energy efficiency has recorded an increase in revenues, but even more important, has recorded an increase of EBITDA margin. Now we are in the range of 14%. That is going close to what I always said, the energy efficiency should cover businesses that will give us an EBITDA margin between 16% and 18%. So we are close to that. And that is a significant milestone. That is exactly based following the plan that we declared last year, and we are following very closely. I would say slightly better.

The next question is from Francesco Sala from Banca Akros.

Congratulations for your results. Just a few questions on my side. The first one is, can we assume -- as regards to ARERA's resolutions, if we can assume a similar impact in Q2 once the 2i Rete Gas is included in your numbers? That's the first one. The second one, if there is any update on the Rome concession tender that you can share with us? And the last one, what can we assume in terms of net working capital impact for the whole 2025?

Regarding the first one, I think it's slightly, let me say, tricky the 2 resolution and the way you calculate. Let me see that in this way. Let's start from the OpEx that is the easiest one. What we have accounted -- I told you about EUR 4 million additionally in the first quarter. It will be -- it's about -- if you multiply by 4, you get the full year impact regarding, of course, Italgas only, not 2i Rete Gas. Regarding, let me say, the impact of the reevaluation of the RAB is slightly more difficult. Let me say that in this way -- I'm trying to explain to let you understand better so you can make your own calculation in understanding the true impact of that. As I told you, at the end of 2024, our -- the adjustment, let me say, on the RAB was EUR 150 million. So that is the first point. What happened in the comparison of 2024? In 2024, we had 2 moments in which we had a different deflator rate. In the first quarter, the deflator rate was 3.8%. In the second quarter, the deflator rate for the year 2004 sic [ 2024 ] was increased to 5.3%. And now you compare it to 6.1% -- sorry, 6.2%. What does it mean? That the delta that I told you regarding the first quarter is -- let me say, is going to be bigger than the delta that we will record in the second quarter. The reason is because we compare 6.2% to 3.8%, while in the second quarter, we compare 5.3% to 6.2%. If you look at the overall year, you need to compare 5.2% to -- sorry, 6.2% -- sorry, there are too many numbers -- 6.2% to 5.3%, because last year in the second quarter, of course, we have adjusted to the highest number that was introduced later by the regulator. So the delta in terms of RAB adjustment is -- if you look at the overall year regarding Italgas is 6.2% against 5.3%. If you want to have the numbers for 2i Rete Gas, we can tell you that the increase of RAB for 2i Rete Gas same way at the end of the year of 2024 has been EUR 85 million. I think there is still -- regarding tenders, Rome or general? Okay. You were talking about the Rome tender. So in that case, I will pass to the expert -- the floor to expert, that is Gianfranco Amoroso.

So basically, no news. So I will give you a recap of the situation where we stand. So concession expired in November. We have a receivable in our balance sheet of slightly less than EUR 300 million that is due -- was due -- that is still due because of the concession expired. The management of the concession is ongoing as usual. So the service is provided as before. And also the remuneration in the tariff is exactly the same. In our P&L the only difference are the depreciation that I commented in the EBIT evolution. And if you want to, say, to have a rough figure for the whole year, is around EUR 70 million -- EUR 70 million, EUR 75 million. And for -- as regard the tender, no news on that. We are still waiting that the process start. So the preliminary phase of data collection has still to be started and completed. So there is no visibility on the timing of future tender for the concession. Second question -- the third question was for the net working capital. As I said, the net working capital for this quarter is positive, as always in the first quarter, with a boost given by the volumes. In this figure, there is also a receivable linked to the adjustment of EUR 54 million that we expect to be cashed within the next month. So this will be something that you will find also structurally at the end of the year. So overall, I expect a positive contribution for the working capital year-end also considering this -- the cash-in of this component within, let's say, the next month.

The next question is from Bartek Kubicki from Bernstein.

A few issues to discuss, please. First, on the disposal of 600,000 redelivery point. I just wonder what would be the equivalent RAB or VIR value of those assets. And consequently, whether this RAB or VIR value could be considered a floor in terms of valuation? And also, if you can maybe elaborate a little bit on the potential appetite on those assets? Second one on cost synergies with 2i Rete Gas. I think 2i Rete Gas has a lot of external services costs. So I just wonder -- and looking at your history, you've been very good in cutting on the external services costs. But I just wonder how easy you think it will be with 2i Rete Gas to terminate existing contracts and how long it will take actually to terminate them and then get the efficiencies on the external services contracts? And the last technical one related to the Rome concession. Can we actually expect in the next couple of years any expiry -- expiry of any other concession and then possibly a positive impact on lower D&A as well? Or it only applies to Rome? I don't know. Just asking the question.

Regarding the first question, we cannot tell you any more than 600,000. To be honest, it's 606,000, if I remember well, delivery point to be dismissal. Everything else, appetite -- which is going to be the value at which we are going to sell it, which is going to be the premium of RAB, we have expectation. Of course, we cannot share it with you, with anyone. There will be a public and transparent process as requested by the regulator. So you will hear in the next, let me say, conference call. Think about like it's a journey. You will follow the journey. We will keep you updated as long as this information will become public. But I'm not going to disclose anything on that. It will be against the rules set by the antitrust authority. Good question on the second one. You're right, 2i Rete Gas, many of the services are provided by a third party. The first one that we have already attacked is the leakage research. As you know, they have started to adopt our Picarro technology with limited impact, because I think they have researched last year like 15,000 or something like that about -- in terms of kilometers. What we have done, you're right, we exactly accelerated, for example, this is a very good example in which we decided to order new machine/cars to significantly increase the number of kilometers inspected already this year. And instead of getting services from third party, we expect very soon that everything will be done by internal personnel, either 2i Rete Gas with also the support of Italgas Reti. That is one very good example where we are going to bring back this activity, and there will be, of course, synergies that will be -- we'll generate it. When they are going to happen? Let me say that we will see those kind of synergies probably end of this year, most probably beginning of 2026 because there will be taking the example of Picarro. We have -- we need time. We have already started, but we need time to have the training of the new personnel, not to drive, but to drive and able to read all the signals that are coming from the system and then to intervene immediately to fix any leakage they can -- they eventually find on their network. In the meantime, there will be an overlap between third-party services and our activities. So I expect that year-end, beginning of January, so beginning of 2026, we will start seeing synergies from bringing back services that were provided by a third party. On the Rome concession?

Yes. If I understand correctly, the question is if the accounting situation and positive impact of Rome can be replicated in other tenders. At the moment since almost all the tenders are expired, almost all the concessions, I would answer that the situation of Rome is very specific because you have -- you had at the time of the concession in 2012 already a very well-defined exit value, the EUR 300 million. And so the accounting principle allow you to depreciate in an accelerated way the difference between the RAB and the final value. In the other situation, a normal situation, you have the RAB, you have the VIR, but you -- at the end of the concession, you have to determine the value of your asset. So you do not have this problem. A problem or opportunity, it depends on the point of view, of course.

We don't have any other situation. That is the short-term answer.

The next question is from Alberto de Antonio from BNP Exane.

My first question will be coming back to the synergies. If the EUR 200 million target in synergies and cost efficiencies that you have until the end of 2029 is unchanged? Or with further analysis, you have more visibility? And if you could give us maybe some kind of time line on when do you expect these synergies to arise? The second one will be regarding your comment that you made on the [ rate ] issue. Could you repeat when is the expectation in which will you raise the capital? It's the second quarter or the second half of 2025? And then maybe on the RAB. At the end of 2024, considering the impact of the new deflator, your annual report is for Italy EUR 9.1 billion. Could you update this figure for the latest update of the deflator? And maybe the last one regarding the water business. If you could provide some guidance and what's your expectations in terms of the contribution for 2025? And if you have any visibility on the time line for the full consolidation of Siciliacque and Acqualatina?

Regarding the first question, we have estimated around EUR 200 million of synergies in 2030. As of today, we confirm that. So there is no change. Of course, we are going to update these numbers by the new strategic plan that we are going to present in October. As of today -- if you remember, there were 3 blocks. The first one was, let's say, the traditional -- when you have merging, the most traditional synergy that you expect were in the range of EUR 40 million. Then we have another EUR 80 million coming from the digitization of the processes and of the network of 2i Rete Gas. Then we have another EUR 80 million that was the application of artificial intelligence, not only on 2i Rete Gas, but also on Italgas itself, so on all the group. Those were the 3 pillars that we described. We are -- when I mentioned to you the EUR 10 million that we were talking about 2025, that represents mainly the first pillar. So the very traditional one that we are going to achieve in -- let me say, in the second semester of 2025 thanks to the merging of the 2 companies. A very quick answer on the increased capital. We expect to complete by June 30, 2025. So by the end of the first semester. That is what we expect. We are working on that direction, and hopefully, we are able to do it. Regarding the RAB, at the end of 2024, as I said, it was -- you're correct, it was EUR 9.1 billion, the Italgas RAB. You should increase that by EUR 150 million due to the adjustment of the deflator. On the water business, Acqualatina, we cannot consolidate. We are 49, so we will never consolidate Acqualatina. Regarding Siciliacque, we have not -- as of today, we are working very well with Regione Siciliana. Let's see when we are going to plan to consolidate it. Nevertheless, the contribution is not significant, as you can imagine. As well as the total water contribution especially -- you have the contribution of the water in the first quarter. Even if you multiply by 4, then the contribution will decrease because in the next 9 months there will be a significant contribution coming from 2i Rete Gas.

[Operator Instructions] Management, there are no more questions registered at this time.

So thank you, everyone, for attending, and the IR team is available in case you need further follow-ups.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining. The conference is now over. You may disconnect your telephones.