J. Kumar Infraprojects Limited (JKIL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the J. Kumar Infraprojects Limited Q3 and 9 Months FY '25 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Before we begin a brief disclaimer. The presentation which J. Kumar Infraprojects has uploaded on the stock exchange and their website, including the discussions during this call contains or may contain certain forward-looking statements concerning J. Kumar Infraprojects business prospects and profitability, which are subject to several risks and uncertainties and the actual results could materially differ from those in such forward-looking statements. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Kamal Gupta, MD J. Kumar Infraprojects Limited. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Gupta.

Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of J. Kumar Infraprojects, I welcome everyone to the Q3 and 9-month FY '25 Earnings Conference Call of the company. Joining me on this call is Mr. Vasant Savla, our CFO; and Marathon Capital, our IR team. I hope everyone had an opportunity to look at our results. The presentation and press release have been uploaded on the stock exchanges and our company's website. We are pleased to report another quarter of robust overall performance. The working capital cycle remains within our targeted range. Our robust order book and exceptional execution capabilities position us for continued success, and we anticipate setting new performance records in the years ahead. Our focus on delivering high-quality projects and expanding our portfolio is paying off. We are confident this will lead us to improve margin and return ratios. As a prominent infrastructure construction company in India, we are well positioned to capitalize on the sector's growth momentum with a potential and accelerate revenue growth and enhance multiyear revenue visibility. Our success in a challenging industry is a testament to the enduring values that have guided our organization throughout this history. The ability to deliver results in the face of adversity requires a combination of determination, flexibility and tenacity. We believe that technically demanding projects present opportunities for the growth, learning and differentiation in the marketplace. Our ability to technically qualify and win such projects include first of its kind projects in the country, speaks volumes about our engineering capabilities. We take pride as being a nation builder. Now coming to the financial performance of the company. Consolidated performance highlights for Q3 FY '25. Revenue from operations for Q3 FY '25 grew by 22% to INR 1,487 crores as compared to INR 1,219 crores in Q3 FY '24. EBITDA FY '25 grew by 22% to INR 219 crores as compared to INR 179 crores in the preceding year. And the PAT for Q3 FY '25 grew by 21% to INR 100 crores as compared to INR 83 crores in Q3 FY '24. The EBITDA margin stood at 14.7% and the PAT margin for Q3 FY '25 stood at 6.7%. Coming to the consolidated performance highlights for 9 months FY '25. Revenue from operations for 9 months has gone up by 18% to INR 4,061 crores as compared to INR 3,454 crores in the preceding year. The EBITDA for 9 months FY '25 grew by 18% to INR 591 crores as compared to INR 501 crores in the preceding year. And the EBITDA margin stood at 14.6%. The PAT for 9 month FY '25 grew by 21% to INR 276 crores as compared to INR 229 crores in previous years, and the PAT margin stood at 6.8%. The total order book as on December 31, 2024 stood at INR 20,529 crores. The order book includes metro projects contributing around 20%, elevated corridors/flyovers contributing around 46%, road tunnels contributing around 21% and others contributing around 13%. We have so far book orders worth INR 3,586 crores and are confident of achieving our targeted order book for the year FY '25. We see further acceleration in order awarding in FY '26. We can now begin the question and answer. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Alok Deora from Motilal Oswal.

Just a couple of questions. First is what would be our debt right now in -- at the end of December, gross debt?

Debt is INR 863 crores.

It was debt. Gross debt.

Okay. Got it. So it's -- where do we see the debt equity moving now? I mean, since we will be requiring more working capital as the execution ramps up. So debt equity should remain in the current range or it could be improved -- it could increase further because it's higher than what it was at FY '24 end?

Yes. So right now, debt equity is at 0.3. We hope to maintain this going forward also Mr. Alok ji.

Sure, sir. And we have done pretty strong execution in Q3 despite some impact would have been there from the monsoon as well. So for full year, what's the number we are looking at for revenues and also order book is pretty decent at INR 20,000 crores. And you mentioned briefly about the order inflows -- orders coming in Q4. So what's the quantum of orders we are looking in quarter 4 and also full year revenue guidance?

So we are already L1 in like INR 5,000 crores of projects. So we are hoping to get this in Q4. And like we've given a guidance of INR 6,000 crores to INR 8,000 crores of orders including this fiscal year. So we hope we'll be able to maintain this.

Sure. And revenue guidance for this year? I mean we have done, I think, around INR 4,000 crores or so?

Yes, and we are looking to close this year by like INR 5,600 crores to INR 5,700 crores of top line by end of FY '25.

The next question is from the line of Dhananjay Mishra from Sunidhi Securities.

Congrats on a good quarter. So you said L1 position is close to INR 5,000 crores and which will be converted in the final order in this Q4. So apart from this, what is our bid size which are already submitted. And in terms of bid pipeline, how do you see bid pipeline for FY '26?

We have submitted a bid for around INR 4,170 crores -- INR 4,200 crores, and we are expecting to bid for around INR 40,000 crores of projects in coming 6 to 9 months.

Okay. And are we seeing -- I mean, which area we are -- incremental pipeline you are seeing? And some expressway projects are from Maharashtra side, are you seeing some big projects where we are qualified to bid?

So we are already L1 in these 2 projects of Maharashtra Expressway, Virar-Alibaug, and one project of coastal road of CIDCO Navi Mumbai. INR 1,000 crores. And we are bidding for elevated corridors also some tunnel projects also and some metro projects also.

Okay. And this Virar-Versova Sea Link project, which is also expected, which is very huge. So are we going to bid with some joint partner like NCC, like you have done before.

Yes, yes. We are very much interested in this project, and we are surely going to be part of this project, Mr. Dhananjay.

Okay. And lastly, on this balance sheet number, can you give the current receivable inventory and retention numbers?

Yes. So the inventory of raw material is INR 520 crores and work in progress is INR 608 crores, the receivables are INR 1,393 crores and creditors are INR 597 crores.

500?

INR 597 crores.

And what is our non-fund based limit? And what is the utilization?

Non-fund based limit is INR 4,000 crores and fund based limit is INR 1,000 crores. Utilization is 70%.

In both?

Yes.

We'll take the next question from the line of Jainam Jain from ICICI Securities.

First question is, sir, what is the order inflow guidance and revenue and EBITDA margin guidance for FY '26?

FY '26? Yes, so we are looking for a 15% growth year-on-year. So FY '26 will be also like around INR 6,300 crores to INR 6,500 crores.

Okay. And the EBITDA margin's guidance? EBITDA margin?

EBITDA margin will be in the range of -- we're doing 14.6%. So of course, we'll maintain this. We are looking for an upward growth in that. So like we are targeting 15% plus EBITDA margin for this coming year.

Okay sir. And sir we are seeing a sudden spike in the short-term debt level from INR 382 crores in FY '24 to INR 646 crores in December '24. So what will be the reason for that?

So the reason for the increase is that during the last year, we have been awarded contracts of almost INR 11,800 crores. So all these projects are now coming into execution and earlier stage of execution. So for that, we have to take the funding that is required for initial setup of project and project startups.

We have not taken the mobilization like for Chennai, which was a INR 4,000 crore project. We have not taken mobilization advance from government. And so that's why the debt level looks on the high side.

Sir, when do we expect the tender to be floated for Virar-Versova linking project?

So the DPR is under process. So they are planning whether to do 5 to 6 packages or 8 to 10 packages. So I think in another 2 quarters, it should be out.

The next question is from the line of an Uttam Kumar Srimal from Axis Securities Limited.

Congrats on the good set of numbers. Sir, with regard to the INR 40,000 crore bid pipeline that you mentioned, sir can you bifurcate for this INR 47 crores, how much is the tunnel, how much is metro and how much is elevated corridor?

You're talking about the projects to be bid?

Yes, the INR 40,000 crores bid pipeline that you have just mentioned.

There will be some building projects around INR 8,000 crores to INR 9,000 crores, what we're planning to bid. Some metros and railway projects around INR 7,000 crore to INR 8,000 crores and some elevated corridors and tunnels, which will be around INR 30,000 crores.

Okay sir. Now sir, with regard to the revenue growth that you have mentioned, 15%. Now since most of the contracts that awarded last year that will be coming into execution this year. So don't you think, sir, our revenue growth will be more than 15%, around 20%, 25% because we have got huge order backlog and our total order book is around INR 20,000 crores.

Correct. Yes, Mr. Uttam. So we always believe in giving conservative figures and surpassing our targeted figures, Mr. Uttam. So that's why we talk very conservatively while giving the guidance.

And sir, interest cost has increased quite sharply this quarter. So in the next quarter and coming FY '26 also, so can we expect some kind of run rate?

Some types of -- you're talking about debt?

Interest cost because it has increased by INR 10 crores on a quarter-on-quarter basis, if you would say.

So interest cost increase is, as I said, basically because of the increased debt level that is there compared to FY '24 and for this new project that we have got last year, we have to give BG commissions and margins and things like that. So it will be around this level or a little bit less. We'll try to reduce it to a certain extent.

The next question is from the line of Vaibhav Shah from JM Financial Limited.

Sir you mentioned that we have not taken the mobilization advance for Chennai project. So are you planning to take it? And what's the reason why we have not taken it?

Yes. So Chennai, we had 4 projects costing INR 900,000, so total around INR 3,700 crores for all the 4 projects -- is INR 3,750 crores. So we have not taken initially mobilization advance because we were getting a good interest rate from SBI, okay? So that was the purpose of not taking in. Probably, going forward, we may take it for a couple of projects, part of the mobilization advance.

So it is 10% of the 10% mobilization advance?

Yes, it's usually 10% plus 5%, 15% we are eligible to take, but we have not taken any for equipment and for mobilizing both. We have not taken anything as of now.

And what is the interest rate on that?

On the mobilization advance?

Yes.

So it's around 9.5%.

And what is our average cost of debt?

What we have got in from SBI is 9% also. But when you take from them, you have to give BG and that is also like another 1% additional, my dear.

Okay. And sir, at a company level, our cost is 9%, interest cost?

Yes, company level is 9% to 10%. But when you take a mobilization advance, Mr. Vaibhav, you have to give the BG of 110% of the mobilization advance cost. So that's an additional cost of the BG. So that adds up 1% to 1.5% on that. So the overall cost goes to around 10%, 10.5%.

Okay. And sir, secondly, you mentioned that we are L1 in INR 5,000 crores worth of projects. So it would include to Virar-Alibaug [indiscernible] right?

Correct. And...

50% is Virar-Alibaug, and one Coastal Road project of CIDCO, which is INR 1,020 crores.

Okay. Sir, so what about this project called development of Mula River in Wakad Bypass and development of Harinagar Colony. So what about those 2 projects?

So that's already taken in the order, like we already received the orders for LOI projects for that and work order is already in place.

So we have INR 3,570 crores of inflows already with us and we are L1 in INR 5,000 crores. So total around INR 8,500 crores we have L1 plus [indiscernible]?

Exactly. You're right, Mr. Vaibhav.

And sir, lastly, any update on MMC packages? When do we expect to get LOI or any status of land?

Yes. So actually, you told the right thing because they are in the process of acquisition because they have to pay some money for the land acquisition. So they're just signed up with some agencies for doing that. So the acquisition is at an advanced stage, the prepared orders and all. So now they just have to pay and take the land. And so then after taking the land only, they can give it the LOI because unless until 80% land is available with them, they cannot give the LOI.

So LOI can come in Q4 or it may spill over to Q1 next year?

We are expecting it to come in Q4 only, but maybe 10% chance is that it can go in Q1.

Okay. And sir, on the debt part, we saw a sharp increase in Q3. So by the year-end, we foresee it to be at similar levels of INR 860 crores or it may even go higher further?

No, we are looking for INR 900 crores by the year-end, Mr. Vaibhav, the gross debt level to be.

We'll take the next question from the line of [ Hemant Soni ], an Individual Investor.

Congratulations on steady set of numbers. Sir, the thing which I wanted to ask is like the INR 40,000 crores of order pipeline will be bid by the company. And what is the, I mean, quantum of orders which we have already bid?

INR 4,100 crores.

I just wanted the L1 part or 35%.

I am talking excluding the L1 part, Mr. Hemant.

Can you repeat the number, sir?

We are L1 in INR 5,000-plus crores of projects, and we have bidded for around INR 4,170 crores of projects.

4,000?

INR 4,100 crores we have bidded plus we are L1 in INR 5,000 crores of project.

And INR 40,000 crores of order pipeline is?

We will be bidding in this coming year.

In this coming year. Sir, one more thing, which I wanted a clarification from your side is, sir we have the order book of INR 20,500 crores, right? And around L1 we are in INR 5,000 crores, which is expected in Q4, which takes our order book to INR 25,500 crores and we'll be executing around INR 1,600 crores, INR 1,700 crores out of it. Okay. So it will be close to INR 24,000 crores of order book by FY '25 -- by the end of FY '25. We had given a guidance earlier of INR 25,000 crores of order book by FY '27. So are we sort of upping the guidance because we'll already be closing FY '25 with INR 24,000 crores of order.

Yes. So if this order likely MMT also comes in this Q4, what we are expecting. So of course, our order book will be around INR 23,000 crores to INR 24,000 crores by the year-end. And we have given a target of like INR 25,000 crores for FY '27. That is also right, Mr. Hemant. So as I told you, like we always give conservative figures and we expect to surpass our guidance only.

So I mean, right now, are we some sort of upping the guidance for FY '27?

No, FY '27. Yes, we've been around like INR 30,000 crores as of now, what it looks like. So we'll go up and do an order book of INR 30,000 crores for sure.

[Operator Instructions] We'll take the next question from the line of Deepesh Agarwal from UTI AMC.

Sir, my first question is there is some property tax-related request from the BMC of, I think, INR 550 crores. What is our potential liability from this? Or is it a pass-through from MMRDA.

So the government, whether it's MMRDA or DMRC or MMRCL, so they're supposed to give us the land for precasting yards. So our contract already says that it is to be given by them. If any liability of property tax has to be dealt by the awarding agencies. So this property tax liability to us does not stand. So either like government to government, they will talk and they'll settle it, there is no liability should not be done. If at all, it has to be paid by the awarding agency. These are all temporary lands to us. These are not permanent lands, which is like part which we have already handed over and part like after completing of the projects, we'll hand it over back to them.

Sure. sir, secondly, the execution for the 2 projects, Goregaon-Mulund and Goregaon Coastal Road has not started because I believe that was supposed to happen through JV route. So if we see consol minus stand-alone, there is not much difference.

No, both the projects, our execution has started, Deepesh. In fact, our TBM will be coming in first quarter of FY '25 -- FY '26, I'm sorry. So the shaft preparation has started, and like mobilization, of course, has been done. So all the works are going on well in both projects.

Revenue booking for these projects is happening in stand-alone or at the JV level?

No. So this is at the JV level.

Sorry, this is happening at SPV level.

Yes, SPV level, exactly. But the revenue we take in our individual consolidated partners.

Okay. So basically, for us in the stand-alone, the revenue is reflected, right?

Whatever revenue is reflected in our books are part of a JV portion of ours, like, you know what, and whatever is the NCC portion, they take in their books.

Okay. And sir, lastly, what is the cash balance as on December? And also you can touch upon what has been the CapEx in 9 months, expected CapEx in Q4 and for next year?

Yes. Q4 CapEx guidance, I think we have given around INR 500 crores in the coming 2 years in terms of maintenance CapEx and this year in Q3, it was INR 28 crores and the 9 months, it is INR 106 crores.

Sorry, can you repeat 9 months?

In 9 months, it is INR 106 crores. And in Q3, we had around INR 30 crores of CapEx.

Okay. So possibly next year, we'll have almost like INR 350 crores of CapEx and maybe INR 40 crores, INR 50 crores in 4Q.

Yes, yes, it will be more because TBM will be coming in the next year. So there will be TBMs plus there will be some CapEx for the Chennai project, what we have given a guidance of around INR 250 crores, INR 300 crores for CapEx for Chennai also. So even that will add up in next year. This year also, there will be something and next year, there will be something.

Okay. And what is the cash balance as on December?

So cash and bank balance put together is INR 890 crores.

Okay. So at a net level, you don't have much debt right now?

Net level, we are cash positive.

We'll take the next question from the line of Ankit Babel from Subhkam Ventures.

A couple of questions. Sir, first question is on the macro side. Now especially from the Maharashtra side, what we have been witnessing is the distribution of so many freebies by the state government. So in that case, do you foresee any challenges on the funding side, both on the existing projects, which are under construction or even the new one? Can it impact the future inflows from the Maharashtra government side?

So I have seen the paper that like there are some agencies on Maharashtra who are facing problems in funding, whether it's PWD and other departments. But we are working with BMC, MMRDA, CIDCO, we have not seen much or any issues with our payments with these departments. So like -- and going forward also, I think like they are already tying up with different agencies for this funding. So projects are already tied up before like even for this -- we have got this project of Anand Nagar Saket, okay? So which is a INR 2,000 crores project. So already the finance has been tied up for that project. So like project has been financed and then been done. So I don't think it should be a problem going forward.

Okay. Sir is there any order in your order book, which is directly funded by state government?

Order book, state government, like even state government for even this project, as I told you, Anand Nagar Saket INR 2,000 crores, it is MMRDA project, but they have taken finance on that project already. That and the Thane Coastal Road all put together, they have already taken project financing for the whole corridor.

Okay. You're getting all your payments on time?

Yes, yes. We are receiving our payments on time.

Okay. And my, sir, second question is, if I see your company's performance for the last many years, your growth has been consistent. Your margins have been good. Your balance sheet has been good. But somehow, your ROEs are very low at around 13%, 14%. So any effort which the management is taking to improve it maybe at some 18%, 20%? Or you feel that the potential is only up to this 13%, 14%.

Yes. So ROE, if you see there's a slight or steady increase for coming 3, 4 years. And we are, of course, hoping and likely targeting to take it further up, ROE and ROCE both. So it's not that it will be steady at this number. So as the top line keeps going up, the ROE and ROCE will further improve.

No, sir, just by growing top line, it won't. Either your margins have to improve or your asset turnovers have to improve. So what efforts you are taking and what are your ROE targets, say, in the next 2 years, if you can let us know?

So we are targeting ROE of around 15% in coming 2 years. And like as I told like we were doing around 14%, 14.5% of EBITDA margin. We are targeting our EBITDA margin also in the range of 15% to 16% in coming 2 years. So this will, of course, improve the ROE as well.

So this 14% to 16%, so the new projects which you are bidding, are they coming at those margins? Because what we are -- we have been hearing is that there's a lot of competition also which has increased, right? So are you able to bid at those margins for the new projects? And at the same time, the order book which you have currently, is that order book at those margins?

Yes. So we bid only at our numbers, whether we get the project or not because we believe in a profitable growth and not on a top line growth. So all our projects, which are bidded are secured margins what we are making. And of course, there will be also operational efficiency as we are growing in the size. So the overhead cost goes down also and the operational efficiency will add up to the bottom line.

Okay. We'll wait for that 15% ROE.

You will surely see that, my dear.

The next is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities.

Congratulations on a good quarter. Kamal ji, my question is on the new Konkan Express, where I think the Maharashtra government has applied for the environment clearance. So any update on that? When do you expect that to come in? And have you included that in your bid pipeline of INR 45,000 crores, INR 50,000 crores for the next 6 months?

See, I think even that thing is right now in the DPR stage. So this may -- that may again take 2 to 3 quarters to -- for the tenders to float, Parikshit. So of course, when it comes, we'll be part of that. Like we'll try to bid for that as well which are like more structure-oriented project packages, that one. So let's -- I'm not very sure when it will be -- the tenders will be floated as of now.

Okay. Beyond that, sir last year, MSRDC was one which helped us get good order inflows despite last year being a weak in terms of overall ordering. I'm talking about FY '25. So do you think in FY '26 enough opportunities coming in, which could help us grow 15%, 20% on the order inflows because MSRDC was a large bid out. Beyond that, are you seeing anything on the Maharashtra side, which contributes lion's share to our order book? Even the BMC budget is now out, whereas there has been an increase. So do you think any large project beyond the Konkan Express, which may or may not happen coming in from Maharashtra from the state side?

Yes, yes. So as I told you, this -- and somebody asked also this project [indiscernible] is the BMC, which has floated Versova to Dahisar, also Dahisar to Virar and Palghar also, they're planning the sea link, which is INR 80,000 crores of the project. So that will surely come in 2 quarters. And like apart from them, they are also targeting to increase this metro network in Maharashtra. So whether it's in Thane, whether it's like underground metro from this thing, from Colaba to post office and of course, this airport to airport is coming, but it be on BOT. There are some projects in Navi Mumbai CIDCO, line -- 2 lines they are getting [indiscernible] and Pune, there are metro lines coming up. So metro in Maharashtra, also there is huge possibility. This INR 80,000 crores of Dahisar to Virar and Palghar will be there. And apart from that, of course, some elevated corridors, flyovers are also in pipeline in Maharashtra.

You think there would be good ordering even next year, which is expected. Now coming to the civil part, it is 8% of our order book, so which is -- which could be much higher and bigger, especially in the government building side. So how are you thinking there? And do you think that segment you are inclined to grow substantially from here on?

Yes. So it's like, Parikshit, we don't -- wherever the opportunity is there, if we got this opportunity of like building like NBCC, we took this project of INR 1,000 crores now in Noida last month. So like when we get an opportunity, we strike for it. So like that proportion of 7%, 8% can go to 15% or can be at 7%, 8% also. So it's all on the right opportunity and getting it at our numbers because as I told you before also, we don't want to go very aggressive and take projects at any number. We want to maintain margins of our -- the profit margin of 14% to 15% minimum, then only quote for the project. So we are bidding all the projects with these numbers. So if we get whether it's in building, whether it's in tunnels or flyover projects, elevated metro, we are in for that.

Okay. Just the last question on the Tamil Nadu side. So how has been the progress on the metro projects? And what is the pipeline you're looking? How is the pipeline looking in Tamil Nadu for us to expand or get new orders? So what are the opportunities which are available for us to get the orders?

Yes. So our projects of NHAI, which is around INR 700 crores in Tamil Nadu is going very well now. It's picked up a very good pace. We've done already like around 750 or 800 piles in that. A lot of peers are done. The segment costing has started. So that project is online. And we've also taken one project from the state government costing around INR 600 crores, even that is going in full swing. So there are other projects also coming in Tamil Nadu, some elevated structures by NHAI also in state governments are in pipeline. We're looking forward. And there's some expansion of metro network also in the Tamil Nadu we are planning. So we'll be looking for the right opportunity and bidding for that as well since we have...

So metro, we are not doing that. I was wondering that in metro, especially in metro...

Right now, we don't have the metro project. We have bidded for the metro project, but we could not get there in.

Okay. But you are interested in doing metro there in Chennai.

Yes, yes, why not. Of course, we have full set up for the metros.

[Operator Instructions] We'll take the next question from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital.

Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, a couple of data points on the balance sheet, sir. What's the mobilization advance, retention money, unbilled revenue?

So Shravan, mobilization advance is INR 557 crores. And unbilled revenue is INR 608 crores.

And retention money is?

Retention is INR 338 crores.

Okay. Sir, just a couple of questions. So sir, regarding this INR 550 crore BMC property tax notice, obviously, you said that responsibility is on the government whoever be the authority to pay. But just trying to understand right now in terms of the time line or in terms of the worst-case scenario, do you see any kind of financial liability can come to us?

Absolutely not, Mr. Shravan.

Okay. Okay. Got it. Second, sir, this year, already L1 plus already is what we have received INR 8,500 crores, INR 8,600 crores order. So in the fourth quarter, how much more do we expect to get the orders? And for next year FY '26, broadly, how much we are looking in terms of the order inflow?

So this year, as we told like we're in L1 in around INR 5,200 crores of projects. So we are expecting some orders out of this only, okay? The complete orders or maybe like something may spill in Q1. Apart from that, like whatever we have bidded, if it gets opened early and so it does take after opening also the process around 1.5, 2 months. So maybe we -- if something is there, I'm not sure like out of this INR 4,000 crores what we have bidded, if something comes in this quarter. Secondly, for FY '26, again, we are looking for around INR 6,000 crores to INR 7,000 crores of order inflow.

Okay. And sir, this INR 4,170 crores that we have bidded, if you can help us, how many projects or maybe if you can specify the value of the 2, 3, 4 projects, whatever we have bidded?

Sure. So we have bidded for this project, yes. So one is this railway line at Indore. So like of RVNL, costing around INR 1,200 crores, okay? So this is a tunnel, which is there for Indore. And the other big one is the stream tunnel of metro line by MPMRCL again in Indore, INR 2,500 crores, the other one is INR 1,200 crores. And there are some other small projects of INR 3,350 crores.

Okay. Got it. Got it. Second, sir, just wanted to understand, so currently, I think -- correct me if I'm wrong, we have 7 TBMs and the eighth one for the JMLR will come. So these 7 TBMs right now, are we already using at projects? Because broadly, if I'm now looking at our -- the metro segment as a pie is just 20%, and in that also, the underground metro is just 9%, so just trying to see, is there a possibility that if we are not using or maybe if we are not seeing that it can be used in next one year, is there a possibility to sell it off or...

No. So see, TBMs, right now, all the TBMs are in use, whether it's like Bombay, Delhi and Surat. So the TBMs right now are used in all these 3 projects, correct? Whether it's Surat Metro, DMRC, Delhi Metro, and Mumbai Metro. We are already bidding for some projects of underground. As I told you, this is Bhopal Metro, this Indore Metro and Delhi Metro. So of course, when the metro comes like it takes a couple of years for the TBMs to be in use and that much time is also required for refurbishment and logistically transporting it. So I think it's like more or less till now, like we have been doing it since last 10, 12 years, this TBM work. All the TBMs are put in use. And probably 6 to 8 months or 1 year, some TBMs may be idle. That's the thing.

Okay. Okay. Got it. And Vasant sir, can you clarify in terms of the CapEx for next year. So sir has mentioned INR 250 crores, INR 300-odd crores for Chennai and plus this JMLR TBM, which would be close to INR 300-odd crore plus maintenance. So in fourth quarter, how much more we will be doing the CapEx? And in FY '26 itself, how much CapEx we will be doing?

In quarter 4, around INR 150 crores addition of the CapEx will be there. And JMLR TBM is coming in the next year. So that will get capitalized within FY '26.

Okay. So FY '26 in terms of the -- from the cash flow perspective, how much CapEx we will be doing in '26?

FY '26 will be -- CapEx-wise, it is around INR 400 crores.

Okay. Okay. Got it. And second, in terms of the depreciation, which is currently at -- for 9 months also, we have seen just a 2.2% decline despite the top line in 17%, 18-odd percent. So for fourth quarter and for FY '26, once this TBM will come, how one can look at the depreciation?

So as far as FY '25 is concerned because of the addition that we are going to make in Q4, there will be a little uptick in the depreciation charge. And next year, when the TBM will come, again, the other assets will get depreciated, TBM will compensate for that. So more or less, it should remain at the same level.

Okay. Okay. Got it. And in terms of the overall working capital levels, whatever currently we have, we don't see any kind of further increase or do we see any scope of further decrease in the working capital?

So compared to the last quarter, if you see, last quarter was 135 days working capital. We have already reduced it to 118 days. I think it should be around the level of 120 to 130 days.

We will take the next question from the line of Jainam Jain from ICICI Securities.

Sir, as you said that we will be bidding for INR 40,000 crores to INR 50,000 crores of projects in coming financial year. So can you just provide a brief segmental breakup of that?

Yes, I think I have already told, but again I'll tell you. So some -- like for building projects will be quoting around like INR 8,000 crores to INR 9,000 crores what we have planned. And for metros and railways around INR 7,000 crores to INR 8,000 crores, and elevated corridors and tunnels of around INR 30,000 crores of projects.

Okay, sir. And sir, is there any upcoming major tender in the short term in Q4 FY '25 in which we will be bidding for?

Sorry?

Is there any upcoming major tenders which is to be floated in Q4 FY '25 in which we will be bidding?

So right now, yes, we are bidding for some of these projects of NBCC building projects in Delhi. There are 5 projects of INR 1,000 crores each, INR 800 crores, INR 900 crores and INR 1,000 crores, yes.

Okay, sir. So any details about that? I mean, what type of projects are those?

These are building projects by NBCC.

Okay, sir. All 5 are building projects, right?

Correct.

[Operator Instructions] We will take the next question from the line of [ Purab Singhania ], a retail investor.

Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Could you please share the segment-wise operating margins for your order book?

I'm sorry, Purab, can you come back? I could not -- you are not audible properly.

Am I audible now?

Mr. Singharia I would request you to use your handset, please?

Hello. Am I audible now?

Yes, yes.

So could you please share the segment-wise operating profit margins for your order book?

Segment is profit margins. No, we don't have such segment-wise profit margin, Mr. Purab.

Okay. And another question considering that a major geography concentration of our projects is in Maharashtra. And given the elections, appointed dates for these projects were quite delayed. So could you please bifurcate the order book in terms of the project for which LOI has been received and for which appointed date has been granted?

So all the projects like where the LOI has been received, the appointed date has been granted. So none of the projects where like LOI have been received and appointed work has not started or the appointed date has not been declared. It's all like wherever LOI is done, Purab, we have received the work order and appointed date as well.

The next question is from Hemant Soni, an individual investor.

Just wanted to know one thing. Out of INR 4,000 crores of order, what is generally the -- I mean, INR 4,000 crores we have already bidded, INR 40,000 crores is in the pipeline. So out of this INR 44,000 crores of order, what is generally the conversion ratio?

Conversion ratio?

Yes.

So like this will be around 15%, 20%.

Okay. And sir, it will be finalized in FY '26 only?

Yes, yes. It should be finalized in -- because some projects will be coming in Q1, Q2, Q3. So accordingly it takes like a couple of months for them to finalize the orders after the bid. So it should be done in FY '26 only.

Sir, one more question from my side. Sir, like the budget we had already seen, it is more of a consumption-oriented budget and not a CapEx or infra-related project. So going forward, are we sort of seeing some slowdown in the pace of orders?

Mr. Hemant, I absolutely don't see any slowdown in the pace of orders because we feel like whether it's all departments or all geographies, there is sufficient traction in the orders.

The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital.

Sir, this to Alibaug Virar INR 5,000 crores L1, is there a possibility that this -- the scope or the value can be reduced? Is there any negotiation or this number is the final one?

No, already the negotiations were done by them like before only, it was like 2, 3 months back. So that is done. Now like I don't think there will be any further negotiations going forward.

So the original value what we have declared L1 that remains the same?

I have to check. I think it is the original or the negotiated value. But I'll check and come back to you on this, Shravan.

Okay. Okay. And second, sir, are we looking to increase our fund, non-fund based limit? So 70%, sir has already mentioned, Vasant sir, that is utilized. So are we looking to further increase? So related to are we now, again, looking to -- in terms of the equity raising, are we looking to do equity raising -- fundraising?

So first of all, for the limit fund based and non-fund based depends on the projects like if any new projects are there, which demand for it. Of course, we have to raise the non-fund based limits, and we'll be first utilizing our unutilized and then of course go for the other one. And for the fundraising, as you know, we have already taken the resolution, okay? And we'll look for the right opportunity and do it, yes.

Okay. Okay. Got it. And anything major in terms of the projects which are already kind of about to complete if you can spell particularly the Mumbai Metro when if you can name and when likely to be completed?

So all the Mumbai metro projects are going at very good pace, Shravan. And as you know, we have already put into operational this Metro Line 3. The major portion was only till BKC, last October. And they are planning to -- MMRC is planning to put into operational from BKC to Worli also by April 25, by April end. So looking for the best and other metro lines are also doing very well, whether it's the line 2B, Line 6. Line 6, there are some issues, which is sorted out by MMRDA. So even Line 9, the work is going well and [indiscernible]. Obviously, the civil portion and then the rolling stock and the electrification contracts [indiscernible] will be there. So another 3, 4 months, underground metro will be put into operational till Worli and I think by another 12 months, these elevated metros also one by one will be started.

The next question is from the line of [ Manu Singhal from Kreon ].

I would like to know...

Sorry to interrupt, your audio is not clear.

Is it better now?

Yes. Much better.

I would like to know that whom do you consider your strongest and the closest competitor in a similar market cap and sales figure, annual? And what is the plus point that you have over that competitor?

Mr. Manu, I cannot name a particular person like this, which is very close. Because in our bidding, what it happens, there are 2 criteria. One is your technical qualification and the other is the financial, okay? So there are different sectors like metros are one, elevateds are one, flyovers, and tunnels are one and roads are there or building. So there are different people in different sectors, okay? So like, of course, L&T is one person who is like mostly everywhere bidding with us, okay? So L&T is there, HCC is there, NCC is there, [ ITT ] is there, then Tata is there. These are the people who usually are always bidding where we are bidding.

Ladies and gentlemen, as there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference back to Mr. Kamal Gupta for closing comments. Over to you, sir.

I would like to thank once again to all of you for joining us on this call today. We hope we have been able to answer your queries. Please feel free to reach out to our IR team for any other clarification or feedback. Thank you all. Thank you so much.

Thank you, members of the management. On behalf of J. Kumar Infraprojects Limited, that concludes this conference. We thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.