Jamf Holding Corp. (JAMF) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

All right. Well thank you everybody. Good morning and welcome to the Needham Technology and Media Conference My name is Joshua Reilly. I'm an Analyst on the enterprise software team here at Needham. This morning, we are excited to have Jamf with incoming CEO, John Strosahl. Congrats on the appointment; outgoing CEO, Dean Hager; and CFO, Ian Goodkind. We got a lot of questions here. So I think we'll maybe just jump right into the hot topic these days, which is the macro. One of the questions I get is even with Mac shipments slowing down this year, there's still a large amount of unmanaged devices, particularly in commercial markets. How do you think about this slowing growth dynamic despite the large market opportunity, how do you reconcile that? And how do you think about the re-acceleration that we should expect coming out of this cycle?

First of all, thanks for having us, Josh. Great question and thanks for everybody that's tuning in as well. And first of all, just starting with the facts. Over the past 12 months, all PC shipments are down over the past 12 months. At the end of Q1 Mac shipments are down year-over-year about 6%. But that's compared to 23% decline for all non-Mac computers, which means that market share is continuing to expand for Mac at the tune of 1% to 2%, 1% to 1.5% per year, which is a great trend for us. But there's no way that any tech company can escape the notion of fewer PC shipment. But you're absolutely right, Josh, that the installed base of computers out there that are either under-managed or under-secured is quite large and for that reason even though Mac shipments were down in 2022 as were all PC shipments we reported in 2022 that for the first time ever, we added over 1 million Macs under management inside of 1 year. We had never done that in our 20-year history. So that would be a sign that we can continue to grow market share in the large under-managed and under-secured Mac and iOS base even if shipments from Apple aren't growing. With that said, it isn't like it doesn't have any impact, though. Clearly, it does. If a company normally is going to expand their fleet by 10% every single year or 20% every single year and they have been just nonstop for the past several years, that activity has more or less stopped. So that bottom part of our growth where it's just automatic device expansion. That sort of has gone away. And we replaced that with new logo expansion, of which we added 1,500 new logos in Q1 expanding from our MacOS management into iOS management with what's happening with industry consolidation right now that's becoming a larger opportunity for us and expanding for management solution to security solutions, which year-over-year, that $100 million-plus business is still growing at north of a 40% clip on ARR. So all of those things become great growth drivers for us, but they don't fully replace the fact that companies simply aren't adding a lot of devices right now. Fortunately, that's a temporary affliction, and will return as the market returns.

Got it. I think that's a great explanation of the dynamics there on that. In terms of the macro impact, one item that's been a headwind has been customers calling or reviewing their devices under management in their contracts. Either as they're laying off employees are slowing hiring. Can you just discuss how far do you think we are along in that process at this point?

Well I mean that's the $64 million question, right? I might turn it rather back to you and ask you, Josh, but I will tell you that the dynamics that are in the industry is basically every responsible CFO is being like Ian is being at Jamf right now, and that is reviewing all expenses very, very tightly, all replacement hires which is 1 of the reasons why our headcount has actually come down by design over the last few months, which is one of the reasons why we announced the raise in what we're expecting for our operating income by the end of the year. So that's the behavior of all CFOs out there. Now how far are we through it? I guess I'll answer it this way. I'm actually pretty bullish on 2024. I think 2023 is going to be a slug, but I believe 2024 has got some dynamics that I am reasonably almost completely confident will no longer be true in 2024 for instance. I think that we'll be through the interest rate heights in 2024. I am very confident we won't be living in an environment where we are currently having the greatest decline in PC shipments year over year in recorded history. I'm very confident that won't be true in 2024. And I'm also very confident that more than likely the market will know more what's happening with the Broadcom VMware acquisition. And I think that that's going to be very favorable for Jamf. So for all of those reasons, combined with the fact that the really accelerated PC buying started in 2020 and in 2024, those devices are going to be up for refresh. I'm pretty optimistic, especially since when we went into that 2020 buying, remember at the end of 2019, back market share at the time was like 6.5% of shipments. Today, it's more like 11%. I mean quite a jump. So when PC shipments come back, and a larger portion of those are mapped, that's going to bode extremely well for Jamf.

Yes. Got it. That makes a lot of sense. If you look at the tech portion of your business, I believe it's roughly 25% to 30% of the commercial ARR. Can you just discuss what trends are you seeing with these customers relative to non-tech customers? And has any of that behavior changed over the last kind of several quarters here?

I'll take that one. Yes, Josh, Yes. Thanks. Good question. We get asked a lot about the industries that we're in, especially in the commercial space. We have a diversity across different industries, which benefits us for sure transportation, retail, health care, tech is obviously a big piece of it. And because we've diversified along that, we're not super -- we hit really hard by one or the other. What we have seen we mentioned it earlier, we don't know exactly when things are going to come back. But we have seen, especially as it relates to the tech industry, not only because we sell into it, but we also -- we're in it, and we get a lot of people that we speak with. We feel like a lot of the layoffs, the risks, the ones that we're really going to do it, we feel like they're done. What we're -- so we've had some unit device expansion because of that. We don't believe that based on what we've seen, there's going to be a lot more of that could be, but if things start to pick back up, as Dean mentioned, into next year, a lot of companies are self included. We're trying to tool up and make sure that we're ready for that for that expansion. So we believe we've kind of gotten maybe over the hump a little bit on the tech side in respect to device expansion. Now as soon as it starts to come back, we're going to be prepared to get both security and management in there.

For those less familiar, education is about 28% of your ARR, I believe, as of the last quarter. And there's a seasonal element where Q2 and Q3 is the education selling season. Can you just discuss what should we expect in terms of the pipeline this year for the education business entering the selling season? And the large countrywide deal that you had last year with Taiwan, how does that impact the comps here in Q2?

For sure. Well, first off, we're pretty excited about the education, upcoming education season. We have safe Internet now that we didn't have before. Certainly in a -- as a broad offering. Not only do we support the Apple devices in that. We've got ChromeBooks, we've got PC Windows coming later this summer. So we are excited about the opportunity there to expand out and protect other ecosystems as it relates to data traffic and things there. In Taiwan, obviously, that was a big deal, and it creates a very tough comp for us coming into this education season just because it was so massive. But we've got other areas that -- in education that are starting to come back as well. So we saw a big push when a lot of these governments had these government-funded programs a couple 3 years ago, 2020, 2021. Now we've gotten a lot of logos with that because they have agreed to use our product. And we've actually seen in the last quarter, some expansion in there as they tend to roll out more devices. So we're watching for both of those very closely, both in Europe and the U.S. And of course, we've got some big renewals coming in Asia as well, so we're excited about as it specially as it relates to safe internet.

Got it. One of the challenges more broadly in software has been selling more seats for you guys, the equivalent would be devices under management. And yet, your cross-sell of security seems to be pretty strong and on track here. Why do you think that continues to progress supporting the ARR growth? And is the growth rate for security also being suppressed somewhat by the macro?

Great question. I'll grab that one. So just to level set, everybody. Jamf has now been public for 3 years. We went public off of the S-1 that we filed with Q1 2020 results. And in that quarter, that we filed our S-1, our security business was about $6 million of ARR. And in Q1 2023, it's $106 million of ARR. And 3 years of being public, we have built a $100 million security business that is still growing in the mid-40% year-over-year on ARR. So in a world where seat expansion is a little bit more challenging, Josh. Can I just say thank goodness, we embarked on selling the security business when we did because it has given us such a resilient business today. And of course, the macro does, to some extent, affect security as well, virtually every earnings call by a security provider, did talk about the macro a little bit. So you don't have to just listen to Jamf kind of listen to anybody in that regard. With that said, we have held up really well for several different reasons. First of all, the entire world of security is built around a Windows first world. And it simply does not secure Apple devices as well as a solution that is built for Apple using the native capabilities of Apple and I can explain more on that if you like. But for that reason, we will have a position within the security world. Two is we are the only other than Microsoft which is majors around the Windows platform as well, we are the only provider out there that provides and security solutions. And therefore, they're integrated together in such a way that the customer does not have to -- so therefore, any security incident that you might be able to detect, you're able to go into mitigation around that security instant [ easily ] because we have all the management software that is responsible for updating to the latest operating system for blocking usage from network cloud and device so we're able to have that real-time remediation. And then the third reason why it's holding up, and we saw this in Q1 more than we have since we've gotten into security is we're noticing vendor consolidation. We had really, I mean, more customers than I could list right now in Q1 by the Jamf business plan bundle, which is really our management connection and protection, altogether, which is growing at a great clip year-over-year, by the way, and they've replaced anywhere from 2 to 5 different vendor solutions with that 1 purchase. And the result of just how we've placed that, they save money right away. So even if we can't -- we've sort of changed our sales tactic from going in and saying, Hey, we're going to secure, manage and secure Apple better to -- we can save you money immediately. And oh, by the way, let me show you how it's better as well. We've never had that club in our bag. We've never sold on price before. But when you combine all of our things together, we can save customers money right away. So that's one of the reasons why it's held up well.

Got it. That makes a lot of sense. All right. So moving on to some product questions. A common question I get is why is the platform built from the ground up for the Mac ecosystem important for mobile device management versus a solution that's OS agnostic?

So yes, I mean, that's been the question back from -- I think there was a hope back in 2010 when the MDM framework. By the way, MDM isn't the solution. MDM is a framework that solutions use to provide products. And when the MDM framework was created in 2010, between 2010, I want to say, 2013, '14, there was this like great hope that it was going to be the answer that allowed you to just treat all devices from all manufacturers as if they're the exact same gaining tremendous efficiency within IT . Well, that would be the equivalent of hiring somebody to come work on your home and that they have some magical tool built that's going to handle the electrical, the plumbing, the HVAC, the drywall, the -- you name it. One tool has difficulty handling the uniqueness of Windows, Google and Apple for 1 reason. And if you give Windows, Google and Apple, every single year, try to differentiate from the others. So like if we can convince all 3 of them stop differentiating from each other, then no specialization will be needed. But what we have found in the industry, and I think proof of the fact is that Jamf has grown from $200 million to $500 million in 3 years that we've been public, rough numbers. While those that we competed against have all pretty much either stayed flat or decline, we've been replacing those. So that model of specialization has really worked. But let me give you 1 really specific product example. Some time ago, not long ago, Apple came out with a new feature called Rapid Security response. And Rapid Security response is going to send a message and an update to every user of an Apple device saying, "Hey, there is a security patch that you have to install right now." Well, as typical, Apple builds that for the individual who's using the device. Well, what about in an organization? How is the organization going to know all of the devices that are Apple within the organization that have received said notification and haven't applied the packs yet. Secondarily, Apple has an MDM capability that is Apple only call declared of management, where the device will actually report forward whether or not that Rapid Security response has been applied, but they always reported through MDM. Let me repeat that. They only reported through MDM, meaning all security providers who do not have a built-in MDM framework support, which is virtually every security provider out there, cannot report on whether the Rapid Security response has been applied to all the Apple devices within an enterprise. But Jamf, because we have both the security solutions and the management solutions that support the MDM framework, including the Apple-only components of the MDM framework. Support of the Rapid Security response and making sure that every single device in the ecosystem is patched is automatic. And I can point to just a few weeks ago, one came out, I believe it was May 1. And instantly, Jamf nation was talking about, is it at cool that Jamf just handled it. We were able to immediately report on this. And I can tell you that you could go for yourself to almost any public chat channel that has anybody other than Jamf running, and they're like, we have no visibility into whether or not our devices have applied the Rapid Security response. It's for reasons like that, that you need to have the specialization on your ecosystem, the way that Microsoft does with Windows and the way that Jamf does with Apple.

Yes, that's an interesting example there. All right. So you recently integrated ZTNA into Jamf Connect, if I remember correctly, that was one of the newer products that Wandera had developed at the time of your acquisition of Wandera, it was still a newer product for them. Can you just discuss how this helps the value proposition of Jamf Connect? And how you think about this product's kind of growth for this year and maybe the next midterm?

Yes. It's one of the solutions I'm most excited about. Jamf Connect, first of all, has been Jamf's second hottest selling product compared to Jamf Pro, our flagship product for many years in its identity-based so it integrated to cloud identity providers. So did the ZTNA solution that we acquired from Wandera. So we spent the first couple of years bringing those together come into 1 common Jamf Connect product. And what it allows you to do is just automate the process using biometrics from provisioning to authentication through access in a way that the user doesn't even have to think about it. What I'm communicating to you right now through Jamf ZTNA as part of Jamf Connect, but I don't even -- it's just on. And whenever I'm doing something work related, it automatically goes through our encrypted access. Whenever I'm doing something personally related, it automatically goes just to the Internet without having to go through a work encrypted access, therefore, not affecting our performance at all. And so not only do you get automatic encryption for everything you're doing in transit for work. But because we have that dynamic tunnel that's being used for work, it means the moment we detect a vulnerability that could have come in through a phishing attack or Malware or misuse of the system, we are able to block. Even if it's after authentication. We don't just check at authentication. We are constantly checking. And so we are able to block access at the device level, at the network level and through partnerships with Google, Amazon and Microsoft, of which we are the only ones that have this, we're actually able to block at the cloud level because they actually check with us on the compliance of the device. So back to the earlier question of why has security sold so well. We have had customers and we had one in particular that I'm thinking of in Q1 that called us simply because they were failing their [ pen ] tests. That there was about a 15-minute lag between there was a vulnerability on the device and when they were able to detect that vulnerability and block that device from the network. And when they brought in Jamf solutions, management and security together, the leg went away, and they were able to pass their authentic. It's reasons why that combination is so strong.

Interesting. All right. So one item I think is worth updating is your penetration of Mac is very strong, likely #1 in commercial markets, but market share on managing iPhones in business has always been lower just with the cadence of your business. Have the security offerings for iOS that you acquired with Wandera helped to accelerate iOS devices under management in addition to managing security?

Yes. It's actually one of the core reasons why we have hired some of the historical solutions that we did, namely the Wandera solutions because we are able to come in with iOS management. But on the Mac, we were talking management and security. But when we brought in the ZTNA solution from Wandera. When we brought in the Mobile Threat Defense solution for Wandera, all of a sudden, we had 2 avenues in to go in iOS devices, both management and security. Better yet, we got an iOS business plan, which is an integrated management and security bundle in the exact same way we have with the Mac. And so while our market share is lower, our growth over the last 3 years from a CAGR perspective, iOS as [ common ] device has been the highest within all of our segments that we take a look at. So no, we're super excited about the size of that market. And when you now combine in our BYOD capabilities, the fact that we can lead with both management security and we have a business plan bundle, and the consolidation of legacy MDM vendors that are agnostic and therefore, don't deliver Apple specialization, all of those things create great opportunity for us to win more based in the coming years.

Got it. Yes, I thought that was an interesting point to highlight there. As you look ahead over the next several years, how do you maintain your product differentiation versus competitors, both the legacy UEMs and the venture-backed start-ups. And how is Apple's OS innovations making this task either easier or more difficult? I think I know the answer to that, the second part.

Well, I'll tell you what Apple's innovation, the answer is it makes it really difficult, but we do the difficult. So we actually love it. But everybody else looks at the difficult because we'll watch adoption of that new Apple innovation, and we'll see whether we should support it later. Like when they came out with the M1 chip, security providers were actually posting out there, well, we'll monitor adoption, and we'll see. And the whole Apple world looks at that and goes, "What do you mean you're going to monitor adoption?" That's the way that windows works. That's not how Apple works. And of course, in that lag time, while others are monitoring adoption GM is fully supporting and growing. And so by the time others turn around and support it, we've already got that portion of the market. And that happens regularly. It happens with the M1. It's now happening with Rapid Security responses. It's happening with the [ creative ] of management. When Apple innovates, our phrase internally is Jamf celebrate, because we repeatedly our entire company is built on having those innovations, embracing them and running with them. We always have 5 differentiators that nobody else in the market can touch. But those 5 differentiators like rotate every 5 years because we are supporting something that is a new advancement by Apple, where we are the only ones that are supporting them. And nobody else actually ever catches up because beyond the time they support something that was announced 2 years ago were already on to the thing that was announced last week. And so it just constantly rolls, and that's one of the ways that we differentiate. Combining that with our -- forget about Apple for a moment, just the things that we're able to do with the combination of management and security like in-force encrypted access, which gives you a continuous conditional access, meaning I can log on to my sales force solution and I could be using it. And even though I've already authenticated if a vulnerability is detected on my device, I could be blocked at my next [indiscernible]. We don't just check that at authentication. We're checking all the time. That's an innovation that is uniquely Jamf because of our combination of management and security that we offer. So yes, whether it be the UEMs that are not specialized or whether it be the Apple only providers that are not as able to go as deep or as large or as global as we are, just continue already innovate.

Got it. Yes. I think that's an interesting dynamic there. Just a reminder, if anybody has any questions, if we have some time at the end, they can enter them in the Q&A box, and we'll take maybe a couple of questions from the audience. All right. So moving on to some financial questions here. Ian, I think you left revenue guidance unchanged for the full year despite the on revenue in the quarter. How are you thinking about the timing of the recovery in demand after Q1 relative to when you gave your initial guidance for the year at the end of Q4?

Yes. Thanks, Josh. And yes, it's financial time. So yes, the CFO, we're definitely here. So yes, when we gave guidance in Q4, we had said we had factored in muted economics for the first 8 to 9 months. And we had some optimism in the last 3 to 4. And then what happened since then when we saw IDC shipments, PC shipments go down even further in Q1 from Q4, which Q4 was already a record. That has some ripple effect, right, on the Mac side as well. So we want to be more prudent with our bookings. And now we put that more conservatism into our guidance in the last 3 to 4 months. With -- in addition to that, in Q1, part of that beat was accelerated revenues related to a private cloud deployment. That old accelerating our revenue under the new accounting standards, right? And so when you factor those 2 things in, we wanted to be just more cautious with our guidance and we held it flat. But what I will say on the flip side is if you look at our guidance, for operating income margins, we actually increased that by 8% over our previous guidance.

Yes. No. Yes. I think that dynamic is getting to be well understood here. So the upside in the quarter, as you just mentioned, was on operating income. Can you discuss where have you cut some costs? And could you take further action to kind of keep the free cash flow margin in line with the prior year if the macro continues to remain challenging?

It is an interesting thing, right? When you have those muted bookings or billings, it does have that double impact on your unlevered free cash flows, both on revenues and collections. But we have been focused on our largest areas of spend, right, headcount, software, et cetera. And I think there is continued room for us to be more efficient. I talk about things like short-term initiatives and long term, and we're focusing our spend and we're focusing on -- we're being prudent on it, and we're focusing on those areas that provide us the highest returns or they are strategic. And so I think there's more room in those areas to be more strategic, and we'll continue to push that. But what I will say is we won't take anything [indiscernible] that will impact our business results as we go.

Got it. So given the lower demand since the second half of last year, you still chose to hire sales capacity towards the year-end in 2022. How are you thinking about adding capacity this year? And how closely -- we know you're closely monitoring, but just give us some color on it, tracking sales productivity in the current macro.

Yes, I'll take that one, Josh. As Ian said, we're prudent on our costs. We're looking at replacements. We're looking at ads in various areas, but we also don't want to start the business. And because we don't know exactly where the bottom is, but we know we're going to come out of this thing and we don't -- we certainly don't want to be flat-footed. And 1 thing you can't do with salespeople is just turn them on in the next day, they're 100% ramps. So we're kind of skating to where the puck is going, if you will. We're down 60 FTEs. I think, since we started this process overall in the company. And we really tried to make sure in the light of not starving the business, getting those salespeople in place so that we're ready to be ramped and take advantage of the market as it comes back. So we are very close to the budgeted headcount that we had set aside for the sales team and they're getting trained up at the moment. And again, we'll just be prepared for when the macros come back.

Got it. Yes. So historically, you've tended to follow Apple around the globe in terms of sales expansion. What are you doing in terms of global sales expansion this year? And how do you expect the mix of channel sales versus direct to trend internationally this year versus last? And then I got a follow-up to that after that.

Okay. So yes, we do tend to follow Apple, maybe not country by country because they're already have -- a majority of their business is outside the installed base is outside the U.S., and that's not our case yet. So we've got a lot of expansion. We've continued to grow the international markets at a faster clip than the U.S. even though the U.S. is having a rapid growth as well. We want to be mindful, obviously, of the macros and not get over our ski tips. It's costly to go into markets. We already have a toehold in the major markets that we're in and that have been expanding, and we'll continue to invest accordingly. We've seen great success in Japan in the Tokyo area, we have an office there, and we've seen that grow very, very nicely. Other parts of Asia. India is another area that Apple has invested heavily in, and we're seeing a lot of traction there. And we do have people in market, and we'll continue to expand that as we see the opportunity.

Got it. And then should we expect -- just following up on that, is there any impact to margins on direct versus indirect sales? Or how should investors think about that? Is that mix kind of ebbs and flows over time?

There's not a major -- no, not a major shift. We have a vast majority of our business outside. The U.S. already goes through the channel, and that's by design, when you talk about different cultures and times hills and things like that for a lot of times, you'll have existing relationships with companies in all these different markets. So a vast majority of the business outside the U.S. goes to the channel and an increasing amount of business inside the U.S. is also going through the channel. And we've set up a channel organization to -- with a major thrust of getting more business from the channel versus just through the channel. But we don't see a major shift in the amount -- total amount of business that have channel margins, maybe slightly up as we go in aggregate. But we don't see any major changes in margin there, and we're just continuing to make the channel more effective for us.

Okay. You recently expanded your relationship with the Carrier BT. Can you just discuss the opportunity to sell with Carriers on a global basis? I know you got some capabilities there with the Wandera acquisition. And should we expect additional kind of carrier partnerships going forward? And then I got a follow-up to that piece.

Okay. Yes, we have. We really started focusing on the Carrier channel more after the Wandera acquisition. They already had established relationships. That was an advantage that they brought. BT has been a long-time partner there, and we'll continue to work closely with them. We look very cautiously but optimistically at the other Carrier channels. The thing with Carrier channels, it tends to -- you get broad exposure, but it is higher churn. And so we just want to try to balance that to make sure that we don't impact our business negatively, but we can still take advantage of the broader exposure that the Carrier channel can get to us.

And then how should investors think about the economics on these Carrier-led deals maybe versus other partner-led deals or direct deals?

Not materially different, really. And it's different between some of the carriers, but in aggregate, it's not materially different.

Okay. Good. And net revenue retention was down again sequentially in Q1, but device shipments were a bit stronger than what I was modeling and expecting. Should we expect NRR to continue to decline over the next few quarters? And can you just discuss how gross retention has held up relative to cross and upsell?

Yes, I'll jump in on that one. So as a reminder, NRR is a trailing 12-month metric, and we started seeing the macro impact in the second half of late in 2022. And what we talked about is that, that metric is primarily being impacted by muted device growth at renewal. And so we would continue to expect that metric downward based on these macroeconomic environment. But here's what I would say is since we're going to lap that, I would say probably later half of this year, we would expect this to continue downward to that point, and I'll call it level out somewhere at that point. And as Dean talked about, optimism in 2024, we'd expect that to turn around as the macro turns around. There is a smaller impact that does relate to churn. But when you talk about gross retention, I mean, we're within 2% or 3% of peak levels, but still above pandemic levels, and our lost only retention is within 1% of peak levels. So in other words, customers are still staying with Jamf. It's really just the macroeconomics weighting on [indiscernible] growth.

Got it. If you look out over the next few quarters, can you keep stock-based compensation flat -- I'm sorry, over the next few years, not quarters. Can you keep stock-based compensation flat while free cash flow continues to grow? Obviously, limiting dilution. Or how should we think about how much the level of stock grants relative to the business ramping over the kind of the medium term?

Yes. It's interesting. We've got this question a lot because if you look at the last 3 years, it's just we IPOed, then we have Wandera and then we had some pre-IPO as well. So just -- we really haven't had a steady state on stock-based comp as a percent of revenue. But what we focus on is we want the right compensation or market structure for our employees, and we're always benchmarking. We use an outside party to do that. And what I would say is you could probably expect us to target about the mid-teens as a percentage of revenue for stock-based comp. But it does take time to get there. Remember, these are 4-year awards. So you have to kind of get through those cycles until you can get to that point.

All right. And then one last bonus question for Dean or John. If you look -- 1 of the things that I've tracked in the education market is the mix between Chromebooks going back to Apple devices and kind of that flow. And we know Chromebook surged in 2020, but now a lot of those are coming up for renewal in the education season this year. What do you see in terms of the Chromebook back to Apple deal sets out there in the market today? Is there a big opportunity to get those back into the Apple ecosystem in this selling season?

We can ham and egg it a little bit. I'll tell you my perspective is that the primary reason why Chromebooks are deployed in education at the end of the day is cost. The primary reason why Apple devices get deployed with an education is to transform call it, teaching and learning is done within the platform. And clearly, the residual value of Apple has been proven really across all against Windows devices, Chromebook devices, et cetera. And as I mentioned earlier, that the percentage of Apple devices that ship today versus other devices is stronger than it was in 2020 when there was what I'll call panic buying because of the pandemic as opposed to thought out strategic buy. As we go into refresh cycles where it's not going to be panic buying, it's going to be strategic buying, where educators are going to be thinking about things other than just cost but rather education strategy. And as organizations now have greater data on the longevity of the devices that they buy, I think all 3 of those things bode very well for Apple devices and their refresh cycles, not only in education but in commercial markets as well.

The only thing I would add to that is that we've seen in some markets, particularly outside the United States, the sale of our capability of the Apple devices have made able -- have made them more attractive in some areas where the school system or area may not have invested in a very robust WiFi environment.

The one other thing that we have that's different than 2020 is we actually have a product that works against the Chromebook devices now. And we've announced that it's coming versus Windows. And that is, as typical. Our management solutions are Apple only. Our security solutions are Apple best, but frequently cross-platform. And there's a logical reason for that as well. So therefore, our safe Internet solution is Apple best, but there is a Chromebook version and a Windows versus coming this summer. And that is something we did not have at our disposal ever going into a buying season for education.

Awesome. All right. Well, with that, I want to thank the Jamf team for presenting today. And I'm sure you'll see them soon in other places. Thank you.

Appreciate it. Thanks, Josh.

Thank you.