Janus Henderson Group plc (JHG) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

All right. Are you ready? Okay. Before we get started, for important disclosures, please see the Morgan Stanley research disclosure website at www.morganstanley.com/researchdisclosures. The taking of photographs and use of recording devices is not allowed. If you have any questions, please reach out to your Morgan Stanley sales representative. With that out of the way, thanks, everyone, for joining us at the Morgan Stanley Financials Conference. I'm Mike Cyprys, equity analyst covering Brokers, Asset Managers and Exchanges for Morgan Stanley Research. And we're excited to have with us here this morning, Ali Dibadj. Did I pronounce that right?

Yes, right.

CEO of Janus Henderson. As many of you know, Janus Henderson is a leading global active asset management shop with $310 billion of assets under management across equities, fixed income, multi-asset and alternatives. Ali, thanks for joining us today. And thanks for returning in your new role now, which we'll talk about.

So let's dive right in. It's been about a year since you've joined Janus as CEO. So can you talk about some of the actions and decisions that you have made so far and what your priorities are for the business today?

Sure. Thanks, Mike. Thanks for having us here. We'll get to have you get to know our company a little bit better and certainly investors in the room and on the call as well. So you're right. It's been about a year, just under a year that I've joined Janus Henderson, and I just feel really fortunate to be part of this team. This is a great, great team at Janus Henderson with enormous potential, potential that we have to bring to bear to both our shareholders and to our client base. You asked me a second ago whether I was traveling a lot and just to give you a nugget of the potential that we have as a firm. I was last week in London. We have something called the London Knowledge Exchange. There were, I don't know, 100, 200 people in a room in our offices talking to our PMs of the balanced fund, talking to our PMs on technology, on health care, going through some of our flex bond businesses, et cetera. And when you think about who was in that room, it was $1.5 trillion of assets under management, potential assets under management. We have less than 1%, less than 1% market share of those folks. And so they were in our room, in our offices being quite impressed by the opportunities that our investment teams bring to bear to them. So that is some of the potential we have to unlock. I'm meeting later this week with our U.S. equity analyst, for example, who bar none, I'm sure you've experienced this as well, know the investments that they make, the company, the securities, the investment better than anybody else out there. So there's enormous amount of potential. Now to your question, what are our priorities, how we're going to unlock some of that potential. So over the past year, we've been quite busy. This team has been quite busy trying to help unlock the potential for the firm. The first thing that we did is we came up with our strategic direction, which developed our thought process in terms of what our strategy for the firm is. And the way we did that is we brought together about 40 people from across the firm, different parts of the organization. Half of them were from investments. They invest in asset managers as well, so let's bring their thought processes in from corporate, from distribution, et cetera. And we spent a good amount of time coming up with what clients want and matching it up to what Janus Henderson is good at and not good at. There are some things we just won't be to some of our client base. And we layer those on top of each other to come up with our strategy and our strategic direction. The short hand for us is 3 prongs: one is Protect & Grow our core businesses; two is Amplify our strengths; and three is Diversify where clients give us the right. So we set up that framework of our strategy, which we're now implementing. And what we realized, I guess, the second thing that we did is that we had to invest back into the business. There are some areas where we had underinvested in, particularly client facing, particularly technology. So what we did is we found fuel for growth. You might remember, we were a little bit earlier than most in the industry to go after some efficiency savings and what we called -- it was Fuel for Growth because we're developing fuel to invest back in the business. That's what we said publicly, $40 million to $45 million of cost savings to put back into the business to grow in a client-led manner for our business. And so that's a big transformation. There will be continuous improvement, but that was kind of the big bang that we're looking at continuing doing. Then what we did is, using some of that Fuel for Growth, we invested in our people. We brought in people from external. We promoted people internally, part of trading blue sky from this Fuel for Growth opportunity, folks who were really good within the firm but just were kind of stuck in lack of progression, and we gave them more blue sky. So we selectively surgically improved the talent within our firm, both bringing people externally, whether it be our Head of North America retail, whether it be our Head of ESG, whether it be our COO, who hasn't here been that long or Chief Technology Officer and on down the line, Chief Operating Officer, et cetera. You go down the line, and we really brought in higher caliber people and promoted people internally who had high performance, high potential. The last thing that we are doing is we're changing the culture. Some of the strategy, some of the Fuel for Growth changed the culture. We took away layers of the organization, but we also developed our new mission, values and purpose. So what is our mission, what are the value or our purpose, and all of this under the umbrella of being absolutely focused on delivering for our clients. So this mission, value, purpose is being ingrained in our organization. It doesn't happen overnight, as all of you know, who've looked at or been part of cultural changes, but certainly on the right track. So it's been a busy year for the team. The team has done a great job, and you're starting to see some real momentum over the long term start building for the firm.

Now you spent many years in the industry, and I'm sure you've had some views of Janus Henderson along the way. What surprised you since joining the firm? And now on the inside, what misperceptions remain on the outside? And how do you address that?

Yes, it's a great question. So let me take you down the journey a little bit in terms of kind of how I saw things externally and then what I saw when I was inside -- or am inside. I guess I'll break it up into 3 pieces. One is from an investment acumen perspective. My experience being similar to you in your chair for some time, I interacted a lot with Janus Henderson. I interacted a lot with the analysts and the portfolio managers in the U.S. equities business and the European businesses, European equities business. And so I knew the intellectual prowess was there. I knew the kind of disciplined investments, the differentiated insights from a research perspective. I knew that was there at least from the equities perspective. I'd like to think our clients see that. I'd like to think more and more people will see that over time as we expand and as we grow. What I didn't know, a little bit of a surprise, was how broad the skill set is. It's not just in the U.S. equities core of our business, but think about what we have in fixed income. Think about what we have from a securitized element in fixed income as well. It's driven JAAA. It's driven JMBS, other things that are out there for us as well. Think about a topic we focused on one of our earnings calls that many of our clients don't know about, many investors don't know about, which is our multi-strat funds that we have. We have tens of billions of dollars where we run in effectively fundamental and quantitative pods to deliver better returns, effectively bond-like volatility with equity-like returns. No one talks about that. No one talked about that. We're going to talk about that a lot more. So the investment acumen throughout the firm, we are an investment-led firm, is clearly there. It should be obvious externally. Internally, it's much broader than I would have expected from the outside world. Second thing is -- look, I competed against Janus Henderson quite a bit. I knew it was really tough to pull a client away. I didn't really know why. What I found is, internally, our client service people are literally -- and I hope I say this in a positive way -- obsessed about their clients. They literally work with them. Some folks are sitting at clients, working with them in their locations, and that relationship is extremely strong. On the flip side, what I was disappointed in or surprised, I guess, from one sense is how much broader we could be from a client base perspective. I just described the London Knowledge Exchange a second ago, less than 1% share of people who are sitting in our offices listening to our portfolio managers and analysts and experts talk about our business. That's enormous potential. We're investing in that potential. We're investing in frontline client folks. We're investing in technology to help that to make sure that, again, that investment acumen can be broadened out from world-class service perspective that we have. The third thing which was a surprise, and to be fair, I didn't really know, it was a little bit of a leap of faith, was whether the team, whether the organization was willing to put the effort in to win. What were the aspiration and ambition of this organization? And I mentioned mission, value, purpose along the way. When we looked at talking to our 2,200 people within the firm, my colleagues in the firm, I didn't have to tell them that we want to step it up and win. They told me that energy was there, and that was a very positive surprise. The energy, the dedication of this team is clearly being manifested. People want to win. People want to win because of our purpose, which is investing in a brighter future together, together for that client. So that's really been a very positive surprise for the firm.

Great. And we've seen Janus take some actions in recent years to exit some less profitable areas. So is that done at this point? And how do you think about the mix of the business today whether it's long products or distribution compared to where you'd like it to be as you look out over the next 3 to 5 years? And maybe talk about some of the steps there.

Sure. So you're right. We've gone through several stages of -- as part of Fuel for Growth and otherwise, being focused on the right activities on behalf of our shareholders and our clients. It is a responsibility we have as a firm to continue to do that. So it's actually never done. Are some of the larger things like in Intech or what have you done? Yes, I mean, we don't have big chunks like that left. But it is our responsibility to make sure that we continuously improve our portfolio, again, on behalf of our clients and on behalf of our shareholders. When we do it going forward in terms of reducing some of our portfolio elements, it will be very surgical. It will be very deliberate. It is not great for a client for us to have a portfolio that is subscale and not delivering performance. It's not good for anybody. That's not good for our shareholders either. If they're those types of things, we will go after that for sure. It's not good for our shareholders if we're not making as much profitability as we could be. Typically, that goes hand in hand with not delivering for our clients. So we will continue to, yes, absolutely look at our portfolio and make sure we're rightsized in the businesses. Now what does our business look like in the future? Well, we talked a little bit at the outset about our strategy, protecting and growing our core businesses. That's still going to be the core of the business. This is our U.S. equities business. This is our European equities business, et cetera, our fixed income core businesses. Those will still be the core of the business for sure. But we're going to, to the second part of the strategy, amplify some of our strengths. So think about our health care business and particularly our biotech funds and our biotech hedge funds, again, things we haven't amplified enough. Those have enormous amounts of potential. Those should grow as a percentage of the business. The multi-sector hedge fund business that we have, I described a moment ago, that should grow as a piece of the business for sure. So the amplify piece should be bolstered on and help out the growth of the Protect & Grow buckets. The last one I remember is Diversify where we have the right business. And you've already seen some examples of that. So we brought onboard an emerging market debt team, for example, in September. That's already crossed the $1 billion AUM mark for us. September to today, crossing $1 billion, that's a really fast pace. And that's, to your earlier question, one of the surprises I had, is the fast-moving ability of this organization to pivot and deliver on something for our clients. Now we just did, for example, a joint venture with Privacore to take advantage of the democratization of private alternatives into the retail channel. We believe that will be a bigger part of our business going forward. So we have a great foundation. The heartbeat in the engine is very, very strong. We want to build on top of that. And both of those together will drive us to be a world-class organization in the asset management world.

Why don't we shift talk a bit about the industry? Many money managers have struggled with poor performance for some time. We've also seen changing customer preferences. So in your view, what is the future of active management? And is there actually a better opportunity now that we've kind of ended this decade of financial repression?

Yes. And yes is the short answer, and let me kind of break that out a little bit. The first part is, absolutely, there are many asset managers who have not performed, and to be fair, many of them have been weeded out. The good news is for Janus Henderson, again, at our core, we pick between good companies and bad companies, good securities and bad securities. That's what we do for a living. That's what we're very good at. And look at our performance over a long period of time. We do extraordinarily well because that is what we do from our core. The challenge, right, has been that over the past, pick a number, 10, 12 years, there was no cost of capital. Money was free effectively. I remember doing my own models. I didn't really know what the risk-free rate was. So what multiple do you put on things, right? We've been extraordinarily disciplined. I'm not an economist. I don't really know what the interest rate will be going forward versus what it is today. I do know it's not going to be 0. I do know there will be a cost of capital. I do know that picking has and have-nots will be a big driver of creating alpha for our clients and everybody who's listening to those clients, and that's something that Janus Henderson does extraordinarily well. To me, that's an umbrella shift in the marketplace right now that is going to be happening for the asset management business. Now we think about things a little bit more thematically as well. So if you think about the big themes that impact in that context, let's talk about maybe 3 of them. One is geopolitical realignment is certainly happening right now. The U.S. is less involved externally to this country and other parts of the world, whether it be Russia, whether it be China, are more involved in other parts of this country. So there's a huge geopolitical realignment that's happening, while, as investors, Janus Henderson and others have to think about what that means. For example, our emerging market equity business has to think about what that means for supply chains breaking apart. Similarly, our global real estate business has to think about what they do when supply chains break apart, where the CapEx will be put into place. You have to think about where scale may not be as much of an advantage from a global supply chain perspective, where innovation plays out. So our emerging market innovation fund is something that could be quite interesting. Our small cap prowess around the world is something that should certainly be brought to bear and thought through. We have a big presence in Europe. I think there's going to be a lot more near-shoring and onshoring within Europe. So all this with an umbrella of geopolitical realignment is how we have to think about things on behalf of our clients. We're in this theme #2. We're in this post-COVID world, post-COVID demographics. You look at the demographics around the world. They've shifted quite significantly over the past several years. Again, our merger market equity team has to think about that. Our U.S. equities team more broadly have to think about where they invest from that perspective, on a demographics perspective. I mentioned health care. We have a great health care franchise, have to think about that. Our sustainable franchises, our technology franchises, have to think about that. We have a sustainable technology fund, for example, which is in its nascent stages. They have to think about, again, the post-COVID demographics world as well. And then the last one is, again, this kind of return of yield, so to speak. That supports all of our fixed income franchises across the board. It also suggests that there's an opportunity between privates and publics. I'd argue that, historically, the private markets, particularly on the private equity side, has been overvalued. We can talk about the deal that happened today perhaps in some sense in the news. But certainly, broadly speaking, the private equity markets has been somewhat overvalued relative to the public markets. Where is that manifested? Mike, you could see that in real estate for sure. You could still see that in a small capital for sure. Those are things we want to take advantage of in that. We're -- let alone our broader fixed income franchise that we have across the board. So big themes, big opportunity for asset managers like us and like many who are listening on the phone, I'm sure, in the room who really understand the assets they invest in and can create alpha from the haves and have-nots within these themes.

So you've mentioned 3 prongs to your growth strategy: kind of growing the core, diversifying and amplifying the strength. How do you think about aligning your distribution to capture that opportunity set, whether it's from channels to vehicles? Where do you see the biggest opportunity?

Yes. Okay. So let's take that in a couple of parts. So take, for example -- well, first of all, broadly, we're investing in our distribution business. We're investing in our distribution business to make sure that we can, to your point, grow the business by bringing to our client base and potential client base a set of categories, a set of investment capabilities that we are unique in. And that's really what we're going to be focused on. We're not going to kind of fight within the beta landscape. We're really unique at developing alpha, and that's what we're going to be doing. Now if you take some example of that, for example, our U.S. intermediary business, our U.S. intermediary business is, I guess, about 1/3 of our assets right now. We are investing in upgrading some of the talent, operating from the technology to be able to deliver for our RIA, wirehouse, independent broker-dealer partners who are looking to this new world, the world of change that we just described a second ago and trying to understand how to do better for their end client. Not just our clients but our clients' clients is what we think about all day. So we're investing in a lot of those areas to deliver for them. Now significant portion of that and the vast majority of that is in the Protect & Grow category. So the categories where we have extraordinarily strong prowess. Think about our classic fixed income business. Think about our U.S. equities business, for example, our European funds profile. We have enormous opportunity to, again, gain market share in there. But there are also opportunities that we have, for example, in the ETF business that we've developed. Think about our JAAA business that we've grown quite significantly, a AAA CLO business that meets the needs of our clients. The good news is within the U.S. intermediary business, we have CIT. We have VITs, and we have the other alphabet soup of vehicles that we can provide. If our clients want it in pink, we'll deliver it in pink. If they want it in purple, we will deliver in purple. What we're delivering is our core investment acumen in that business. And that's just on the U.S. intermediary side. Think about institutional. For us, institutional globally is a big strategic focus. It's about 1/5 of our AUM right now. We do expect that to grow quite significantly. We've had great, great activity among consultants, among institutional investors around the world, very sophisticated ones, entrusting us with their assets for their and beneficiaries. And we're seeing that continue to grow for our business quite significantly. And there, too, we're investing on front line from a salesperson perspective and technology perspective. So all this fits very much with the Protect & Grow, the Amplify and the Diversify. Our core will remain Protect & Grow, but we do think we have enormous potential to cross over the organic growth line with the other elements as well.

You mentioned ETFs. You have a few billion dollars, I think, largely in fixed income. Maybe you could talk about the ETF strategy. How do you think about running that out? And is there any appetite for mutual fund ETF conversions and how do you think about that?

Sure. So yes, you're right. We do have, call it, $6 billion in ETFs right now. It's growing quite rapidly, as you've seen from some of our results. And the way we think about it, a little bit of what I was saying a second ago, we think about our expertise being delivering investment outcomes, investment strategies. That drives the firm. We're investing firm. We can package it in ways to deliver to our clients in a way that's more palatable for various reasons depending on the client. So that's what we did from a fixed income ETF perspective. You're absolutely right. So JAAA, I mentioned a second ago, it's a AAA ETF franchise. Think about it from a short-term duration perspective. There's JMBS, a little bit more core, so mortgage-backed securities, ETF. There's vanilla as well, more on the short-term side. You put all those together, and in particular, you look at the skill sets that we have on the securitized side on fixed income. That's a unique skill set that we have, a unique set of portfolio managers and analysts that we have in that business, and we wrap that in a way to bring that to our client base. Will it grow? Well, knock on wood, we certainly hope so. We think we have several investment strategies that can be brought to bear and can be amplified to bring to a broader client base.

And mutual fund ETF conversions, any thoughts on that?

So we're not there yet. I think the industry has to think through to whom would an ETF fit versus through to whom would a mutual fund fit. A mutual fund is a very, very valuable vehicle for a large part of our clients' clients. And so we want to make sure that we deliver what our clients need, that's right for them. So over time, could it be something we think about? We're not very focused on that at this point.

Okay. Retail SMAs, can you remind us how many strategies you have in the SMA side today, where you'd like that to be? How do you think about broadening that out?

Sure. So there, too, making sure we deliver for what our clients and our clients' clients need. It's about $5 billion, I want to say, in AUM, growing very, very rapidly, high single, low double-digit type growth. It is 14 strategies that we have right now, 11 model placements within that. Again, we think that, that is something that, particularly with some of our more sophisticated client base, they want to have that accessibility to the underlying assets, underlying securities, and we are going to continue to build that. We're investing as well from a specialist perspective to make sure we can support our adviser clients as well as from an institutional view as well in some instances.

Why don't we shift talk about the institutional part of the business? Maybe talk about some of the changes that have taken place across the institutional distribution that led to such strong first quarter flows that I think caught people's attention across the industry. How would you characterize the institutional pipeline today versus year-end and kind of what the composition looks like?

Yes. So as I mentioned a second ago, we are investing significantly in institutional distribution force. It is a great team. The team has not been here for very long, most of them. And so we have great traction now with consultants. We're having significant consultant meetings. Our head of, for example, global consultant relationship is extraordinarily strong. Our U.S. head, who I just met with not too long ago, is very, very strong. And you're seeing that consultants are realizing and opening their eyes a little bit and saying, oh, wow, I didn't know Janus Henderson had all of these things, which are actually very, very strong from a performance perspective. And we have to then obviously translate that into vehicles and translate that into forms that those consultants' clients can use. So we're investing heavily on it. You'll see more people come in from a headcount perspective, again, being client facing in that business from an institutional perspective, particularly in the U.S. As I mentioned, institutional is about 1/5 of our business more broadly. And what you saw happening in the first quarter, I would not project linearly for the firm. There's no question that things will not be linear from a net flows perspective for us. But I think it was a very clear indication on the quarter that consultants and investors, our clients were saying that we're on the right track. Now a lot of what you saw come in, in the first quarter was funding that clients who were sitting around and waiting to see whether we were on the right track, waiting to see whether the changes we were going to bring to bear were client led or not. Indeed, they are client led. They are client focused and shareholder focused. And that allowed them to fund those mandates. It took away, to be fair, a significant portion of our late-stage funding because, again, clients were kind of waiting to see what we were going to do, and they're pleased with what they saw. But what it also did suggest is that some of the most sophisticated institutional investors around the world, you know them, we know them. Some folks on the phone and in the room, they have them as clients. They effectively put their badge of trust with us as we're improving the business going forward.

Let's shift talk about fixed income with the increase in base rate. It would seem like there's a major opportunity in fixed income today that's now offering yields for the first time in many years. First quarter flows were quite robust for you guys in fixed income. So just curious what you're hearing from your customers, what strategies you could see more demand on the fixed income side and how you think about the positioning of Janus today.

Yes. We are absolutely seeing more demand for fixed income as we were talking about a moment ago. Yield is back. There actually is a reason to own fixed income, not just diversification, not just lower capital charges. If you're insurance company or something, there are real reasons to own it, which is yield. And that's quite beneficial to us. It's quite beneficial to anybody in the fixed income category. Now I would argue that not all clients are seeing it the same. Some are waiting and seeing a little bit. Some folks are looking at kind of short duration versus longer duration type assets to try to understand what's actually going to happen with rates going forward. For us, the good news is that we have a panoply of offerings that actually performed quite well for our shareholders. And if you kind of bucket it into 3 buckets, 1 is from a short duration perspective. There is demand for short and ultra-short yield. I think some of the ones were talking about before, VNLA, which is -- think about it as a cash plus 2% or 3% type return, and cash actually has a return now, so that's meaningful to folks. Think about JAAA as well, the CLO AAA ETF. Think about some of those offerings that we have to folks, if they want ultrashort and they're not quite sure but they want to be in the short-term yield area. So we have those with great performance that we can deliver to our clients. We have obviously things in the core fixed income buckets. So think of flex bond in that instance. Think of another one. We talked about JMBS in those instances, the mortgage-backed securities business, Developed World Bond as an example. Those are kind of core businesses that are areas where people who may have a little bit more of a medium-term conviction in the fixed income markets, we'll go to, and we can provide that for them. Of course, there's the higher-yielding areas as well. Thereto, our performance is quite strong, particularly if it's an unconstrained really rely on the portfolio manager and analyst team to decide where to go to, whether we are a multi-asset credit business, whether it be our multi-sector income business, our emerging market debt business I was mentioning a while ago, a little bit higher yield, a little bit more conviction there. But we're seeing a broad interest in fixed income, to your core question, from our clients but differentiated views about whether they want to participate in the short side -- short-term side of things, more of the core or the higher-yielding areas, all of which are obviously much better yield than they had been over the past several years.

Okay. I believe you commented at the last quarter's call that, over the next 2 years, you expect to achieve only 1 or 2 positive quarters of inflows. Is that right? And why is that when you just printed $5.5 billion of inflows in the first quarter and we look at the Morningstar flows, yes, there are outflows, but that pace of outflows is improving remarkably?

So we've clearly improved our pace. That's correct. Our market share losses have improved quite significantly. You see that in the U.S. intermediary channel. You see that in European intermediary channels. You can see that quite publicly. But we want to be very, very conscious of turning a ship in asset management takes quite some time. There's clear momentum shifting here, but these are large long-term relationships, large long-term mandates to win, especially on the institutional side of things. And those have to take quite a bit of time to change. So we want to be very realistic about that. I mentioned, for example, in the first quarter of the year, we've used up a lot of the later-stage flows that we had from clients. Again, clients were waiting to see what we were talking about and what we were doing. They're pleased with the trajectory, and so they fund it. But now we have to fill in that bucket, so to speak, yet again. And that takes time. You can't just look to switch and get assets in the door. So it is correct. We still expect 1 to 2 positive quarters of flows over the next 1 to 2 years. We just had one. We'd like to continue down that path. And I think you'll see improvement. But again, I think we're not in the stage -- just to be particularly direct and people get to know me, they know I'm pretty direct. We're not at the stage from a firm-wide perspective to promise consistent net flows at this point.

Okay. Final big picture question for me, and then I'm going to open it up to the audience, so get your questions ready. Big picture, AI. A lot of discussion across the industry. Just curious, your views on what role can artificial intelligence play within asset management. Is it more of an expense play? Is it a revenue opportunity? And to what extent is Janus Henderson experimenting with that today?

Yes. Look, it's a great question. It's one of these themes that ebbs and flows, but I do think it will be with us for quite some time, and the form of AI will change. Look, from a purely high-level simplistic perspective, if you think what the asset management industry does, right, it ingests a whole ton of information, a whole ton of data. We tried to take that and pattern recognize, turn that into an insight they can invest in and execute on that investment, trades on it, whatever it does. And then it communicates that and delivers that to a client base, whether it be vehicle or whether it be kind of traction. That's effectively the value chain of an asset management business, right? If you think about where AI could be the most useful and is starting to be useful, it's frankly on either end of those for the most part right now. So it's ingesting significant amount of data and hoping to create insights or pattern recognition out of that data. I think you're starting to see that play out. I think that's one of the most potentially fruitful areas from an AI perspective in the shorter run for all of us as [ data side ] managers; and Janus Henderson, hopefully, being part of that improvement cycle from AI on the ingestion of data side and the insight part to it. Then on the other end of the spectrum, working with our clients to really understand what our clients think about, how we can serve them better and kind of getting that feedback loop of what they like and what they don't like from our perspective and not just our clients, but ideally, our clients' clients, the end investor, the end person who wants their brighter future from retirement, wants to travel more, et cetera. So I think those are the ends that are going to be the most fruitful in the short term. Will there be tools for sure from a trading perspective? Will there be tools somewhere in the middle of that value chain? Yes, probably. But I think those 2 ends will be where we're going to be focused on in the asset management industry overall to start.

Great. Why don't we see if there's any questions in the room? What about brand? You've mentioned that, that actually does matter in the industry today. Maybe you could describe what Janus Henderson's brand is currently and what you want the brand to stand for.

Yes. So we have a story to tell. Hopefully, you've got that from the past few minutes as well. We have a story to tell that's actually quite exciting, quite energizing. The people inside the firm. My colleagues see that now. There's a little bit of a spring or step, a little bit of pride there. Not that it's going to be easy, but we know we can get to that destination of being world class in everything that we do. But we have to tell that story externally, and that's why brand matters. For us, our brand at this point is very focused on our purpose statement. Again, in this mission, value, purpose, which is a bottom-up exercise to talk about what Janus Henderson stands for, our purpose is investing in a brighter future together, with particular emphasis on 2 words in that clause. One is investing and the other one is together. We are investment shop. The experts at our firm in terms of investing is what delivers outcomes for our clients and their clients. So we are investing shop, and we do that together, together with you, the client, together internally as a firm. That's our brand, investing together. We've put together a brand campaign reminding people about both that brand and also what we stand for, that we've been around for 89 years, that we have 340 investment professionals, that we've gone through portfolio construction services for 15,000 portfolios for our adviser friends. That's something that we have to remind people externally about. We know about it, but we have a story to tell. We're very proud of our story. And over time, it will translate into really consistent growth for us, not overnight but over time.

Great. Well, why don't we leave it there? Thank you very much, Ali.

Thanks, Mike.