JetBlue Airways Corporation (JBLU) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Great. So back to the airline track here. Next up, we have JetBlue and very happy to have with us Marty St. George, President; and Ursula Hurley, CFO. Thanks so much for being here.

Thank you.

Yes. Thanks for having us.

So yes, fun times in the airline space, and I think that you guys did have an update that you put out this -- or on a slide deck. So I don't know if you want to open up with some prepared remarks.

Sure. Yes, happy to open up. So we actually had a guidance update last week on the third quarter. We actually tightened our range on capacity. We had really good weather in the August time frame. We then improved the midpoint of our revenue guide by one point in a quarter and we also improved the midpoint of our controllable cost guide. So all in all, the quarter is performing very well. Marty, you'll talk a little bit about the demand environment, but things have been strong and working well. Second of all, I just want to highlight our progress on Jet Forward. So thus far, since the launch of the program last July, we've achieved $180 million in EBIT contribution. The ultimate goal is to deliver $850 million to $950 million in EBIT by the end of 2027. We have four priority moves that are performing really well, and we're seeing good proof points that the strategy is working and delivering earnings contribution. Our operational reliability has significantly improved. We were actually the airline that got most improved in terms of the Wall Street Journal rankings. And as a result, our customer NPS has been up double digits in the first half of this year. In terms of our network, we changed 20% of our network last year. That is in ramp-up mode. We also had a very exciting Fort Lauderdale announcement, which Marty will talk about in a moment. And then in terms of our products and perks, we continue to roll out customer-friendly options to get people to pay more to drive top line revenue. So we're rolling out lounges later this year. We have domestic first coming out next year. And we've also seen great progress in terms of preferred seating and are even more seating improvements. And then the last priority move is obviously the cost structure. And we've got about 100 initiatives across the board that really lean into AI, data science, tools, and so the teams are doing really well in execution. We've obviously had 7 quarters of unit cost beats or hits across the last 7 quarters, so really pleased with the progress. So all in all, $180 million since the launch of the program we've achieved and by the end of this year, we hope to achieve $290 million. So good progress. And maybe I'll hand it over to Marty just to talk about Fort Lauderdale.

Yes. So I think you have a QR code that will take you to our deck for those of you who haven't seen it, but the last page of the deck does show and as what we made this week about additional growth in Fort Lauderdale. Long story short, we had -- before COVID made an announcement about getting Lauderdale to 150 flights a day. And then between COVID, NEA, various other things, we sort of took a pause on that. We've also had some pretty significant gate-constrained problems in Fort Lauderdale. But as our biggest competitor there has started to pull down and luckily open up some gate capacity for us, we're taking advantage of it. So we're going to have, I think, our biggest schedule ever in Lauderdale this winter. 113 flights a day, 49 cities served. I think this is our the third tranche of growth we've announced there. The first two were announced earlier this summer, and we're actually very bullish on the market. One of the things that I think is feedback we've gotten a lot as a company, especially when we talk about things like the Wall Street Journal ranking is very, very overexposed to the Northeastern U.S. with the two biggest focus cities, Boston and New York. And we're actually optimistic that Fort Lauderdale could actually be the third sort of tent pole operation for us at 140, 150 a day and counting. So we're actually very positive about the opportunity there, and we think it's going to be a good move for future diversification of the revenue streams.

Got it. Great I have follow-ups on both those topics. But before we get there, maybe you can just summarize your update from last week, which is obviously, as you said, kind of raising the revenue guide, was it just weather was better than expected? Or are you seeing any improvement in the actual underlying demand patterns as well?

So I think if you go back to our second quarter earnings call, where we overachieved pretty significantly from our guide, we made it clear that we had seen close-in demand strength really from Memorial Day forward. And I think if you listen to any of the leisure-focused airlines, you will hear us all talk about the dynamics between peak and trough. And in general, peaks are doing well and troughs are not. And I think that's very typical of this type of demand environment. As everybody knows, we took a pretty big demand set back in early 2025 after Liberation Day. And the industry is still recovering from that. We're still definitely not back to where we were in 2024. We did see the close in demand coming in during the peak. And really, the summer represents a continual peak, whether from Memorial Day until the third week of August. It's a pretty strong peak period. I think when we guided the third quarter, we were cautious about what we should expect for September. We certainly saw this close-in strength starting in the peak and really right from Memorial Day peak. We weren't sure this is going to continue this September as it turns out as that continued past Labor Day. So from that perspective, we are comfortable taking the guide up. And I think in a lot of ways, the guide is very much consistent with the overall strength we've seen in the revenue performance for the last 18 months or so. Couple of blips, certainly, first quarter was a tough revenue period. But in general, I think we're feeling very optimistic as far as what we're seeing in the revenue side.

Got it. And any sense on the result from here kind of October, maybe even into holiday season to the extent that you can see kind of any sense of whether that continues or accelerates?

So it's a little early for us now. We're about 25% booked for the fourth quarter. And even that 25% is pretty heavily booked in the first 6 to 8 weeks of the quarter versus next year and Christmas. So a little bit early to say. I think in general, what we've seen since COVID is a compression of the advanced booking period to be a little bit closer in. And then even with the strength that we've seen since May, it's been even more closer than before. So again, we're not ready to give a fourth quarter guide at this point. We'll do that in our third quarter earnings call. But certainly, if you look at what we're seeing in the third quarter, we're seeing the close end strength persist.

Got it. Can you just remind us about from a comp perspective, both sequential and year-over-year strike last year as well as any Newark benefits in 2Q? Kind of how does that trend and the same...

Sure. So we did get some good CrowdStrike benefit this year, and we called it out on the second quarter call -- excuse me, Newark benefits this year. I think you did call that out. It was pretty transient, and that went away relatively quickly. We had a very good CrowdStrike benefit last year, which -- when we did our adjusted sequential -- second and the third quarter, we did call that out specifically. And that's one of the reasons why we're somewhat cautious as far as what to expect in third quarter because we knew we were up against a tough comp. But I think third quarter certainly performed better than we had hoped, and I think we're actually very positive about what we're seeing right now.

Got it. So you said something very important, which is when you guys gave your guide, kind of your 4Q appeared to be a lot I won't say more conservative as much as I'd say less optimistic than some of your domestic peers in terms of the ramp that you expect in the 4Q. So a, how much of that is you guys being conservative? And how much of that is you guys having a tougher comp?

Well, to be clear, we did not give a 4Q guide, we did not give an annual guide. We did give an ASM guidance and the ASM guide to me is consistent with what we're seeing from the industry overall. And I know my competitors said this, too, because it's been reported to us during the one-on-ones, they're seeing good premium revenues and tough revenue in the back of the bus. And frankly, that's what we're seeing as well. And when you see low revenue performance at the back of the airplane, the #1 driver for that is capacity. So our view of the world is where well under 10% of the industry capacity, but we only control what we control. And from that perspective, we wanted the conservative capacity because we do recognize that we are still negative year-over-year RASM third quarter number and nobody wants to be there. So from that perspective, I can't speak for how the rest of the world is guiding in the fourth quarter. We've certainly seen some pretty aggressive guide out there, and we'll see how those play out. That was not the way we wanted to manage fourth quarter.

Got it. But also speaking of how you want to manage the fourth quarter, how are you guys on your capacity is going to -- that ASM guide kind of is that loaded, finalized, locked? And kind of what do you think for the rest of the industry?

I mean I'd say the guide we have right now matches pretty well what's selling in the OAG. I know there'll be some tweaks out there, but the wholesale changes have really happened. And obviously, we'll be giving better guidance on the third quarter call for all the stats.

But do you think the industry needs to come out more?

It's not my place to tell the industry how to run their businesses.

But if you could?

I would not want to take any legal risk for someone making a call like that. I will say, and I've said this a couple of one-on-ones, there's some hockey sticks out there, performance that -- we'll see how that shakes out. And I think based on what we're seeing, I would be surprised to see if those would have come true.

Understood. Just one more follow-up. You and your peers noted that close-in obviously collapsed in Feb and March and has accelerated again since then. Does it feel like this is now the new normal? Or does it feel like that's something that will still ebb and flow with macro or other issues?

That's a great question, and we ask that question every single week when we look at our bookings. And it's going to be continue as long as it continues. I mean, it's very clear that in the post-COVID world, booking growth have changed pretty dramatically. And our view is to best reflect what the consumers do, not change it. If it's not consumers want to book, that's fine. If you notice in our results, we're still slightly down in load factor year-over-year. Now we're catching up on the revenue side because the close in revenues coming in. Personally, from a guidance perspective, I wish they'd book further out. But from a revenue perspective, booking closer in is good because we get higher fares for it so it's a trade-off. But I -- my only assumption is when people are consciously paying more money to book closer in. It's because of uncertainty and concern. And hopefully, things will settle down to the acceptance of where the economic situation is and that we may see things revert to the mean a little bit more, but I'm not predicting it. I'm just recognizing that we're off that trend right now.

Got it. So just going back to your opening comments, kind of Fort Lauderdale, obviously very opportunistic there given your competitors' issues. Any other opportunities, any other routes or regions out there that you think you can do the same thing?

Well, I mean, given our growth portfolio, actually, our capacity portfolio, we don't have a lot of other opportunities. We have to make a couple of reasonably big bets. The bet we've made in Lauderdale is a pretty big bet. And we have more stuff to come after what we've announced recently. So from that perspective, I think what you see is what you get. If you go back to Jet forward, we've done some pretty dramatic adjustments to the network. We basically canceled and redeployed 20% -- a little more than 20% of the network in 2024. And that's not still playing out in 2025. So we're still in a period of some pretty significant change. I think we have gotten to the new normal in general. I'd say what we have done to the transatlantic has been absolutely outstanding. We continue to do very, very well in the summer and even in the fourth quarter in the Atlantic, and that capacity is very nicely redeployed into mostly Florida West Coast, a little bit of ski markets and Bozeman and things like that in the winter and that balance of good sun markets in the winter and then the European markets in the summer and fall has made for a very, very good profit portfolio for us. So we're very, very bullish about how the Atlantic is done and how it has led us sort of swap capacity back and forth. I think it's actually one of the major benefits of our Atlantic strategy being focused on narrow-bodies because it is -- if we were to be flying wide-bodies and there are wide-bodies out there that have lower capital costs than a standard A321LR. But if we were to do that, it would be much tougher to do that swap winter to summer than we were doing historically. I think it's also worth noting that we only have two more airplanes coming that is transatlantic capable until 2031, I think. So we're just about reaching the first plateau of translating growth.

Understood. So no more new destinations and kind of potentially moving capacity around? Or do you think there's a wait and see?

I did not say no more -- I did not say no to...

You're playing your cards very close to your chests.

Never say never.

I just know any time I give any telegraphing of what we're going to do, one of our competitors are doing it before us. So it's better to be quiet.

Understood. We had Delta this morning kind of point to weakness in the back of the bus in transatlantic as well. Just given -- I don't know, have you done any work on what your customer profile transatlantic is relative to a mainline carrier? And are you more -- is there more overlap between who flies JetBlue versus who flies maybe in the back of the bus at a Delta and kind of how is that macro looking right now?

So on a macro level, I stop by saying we are flying the transatlantic with narrow-bodies. And these are 130, 150 seat airplanes. So we are in a much better position to have to worry about filling all the seats versus a 350-seat airplane. So I'm very happy with the fleet decision that we made, number one. Number two, if you look at the profile of the airplane, the back of the plane looks very similar to the back of the plane on legacy airlines, I think the front of the plan looks different. I think we're much more focused on premium leisure than we see like the corporate business travel, which to a certain extent, I think it's an opportunity because that is not what we see on transcontinental Mint. In Boston, West Coast, New York West Coast, we have a very good corporate business there. So slowly but surely, I'd like to get more of them on our Atlantic. One of the things that we struggle with is we are very, very slot limited as far as our frequency specifically in London, both New York and in Boston as far as our time of day and our coverage during the day. I would love to be able to have more slots there at Heathrow. Unfortunately, we've not been -- has not worked out like we'd like it to. But even with that, I think we do very well in the premium leisure front and are certainly very profitable.

Got it. What does it take to crack into transatlantic corporate? Is it distribution? Or is it slots?

I think the slots will help a lot. I think London, Boston leaves like 8:30 in the morning, the flight out of Boston leaves at like 6 p.m. gets in at 5:50, something like that. So it's not the deferred business time supply and slowly materially, we will do what we can to try to get more slot access into the airport.

Understood. And maybe last question here, kind of we are seeing people like Alaska kind of start to do long on international as well. We had Southwest this morning saying kind of that's on their radar. Is there room to have multiple non-legacy carriers kind of do this?

I'm happy to have a small airplane. I really don't worry about what they're going to do. I was very surprised by the decision upgauge Alaska's order from Dash 9 to Dash 10s before they took their first flight. I'd say in my previous airline, I'm a massive fan of the 787. I think it's an absolute game changer airplane but 400 seats in the winter, that's a challenge for anybody. So God bless them.

Understood. Maybe we'll switch gears here and talk about some of the idiosyncratic initiatives. And so obviously, great progress with Jet Forward kind of what you've done so far? Maybe kind of a little bit of a report card kind of what's been easier and expected? What's been harder than expected?

Yes. Great question. I think what I'm most proud of in terms of the team's execution is the improvements in the operation. We really struggled with that when you look back two years ago being on the bottom of the Wall Street Journal, and we've made various strategic, thoughtful investments, whether that be in tools or technology or just the way we make decisions and actually fundamentally like how we plan the airline. So that continues to pay dividends. As a result, our cost performance has been exceptional, and that's a testament to running a good operation, right, because you're avoiding customer disruption costs as well as labor premiums. So despite us pulling down capacity by 1.5 points in the trough this year, we're still maintaining the unit cost guide that we gave back in January. So that just speaks to the magnitude that the operation is positively impacting the financial results, but also the team's execution on the 100-plus cost initiatives across the board. I would say what we're most excited about is definitely continuing to lean into the premium sector, right, and rolling out domestic first class next year, but also rolling out the Blue Sky United partnership. Those are both two very impactful and material initiatives that heavily are going to contribute to EBIT in the years to come. So we are hands down focused on execution of both of those initiatives, and I feel really good about the progress, and we're hitting the time lines we committed to.

I also want to say that the operational improvement has had one fantastic benefit, which was customer satisfaction. We are now back again at the top of the industry, our Net Promoter Score. And we owe a great debt of gratitude to our frontline crew members who are delivering a great service. The decision to make the changes we made in the operation were difficult. I used this phrase before, it's like jumping between two moving trains. We've had a model from the very beginning of JetBlue of high utilization, lower costs and basically be willing to run really late and fly the wings off the airplanes. And it wasn't working for our customers, fundamentally. So we made the very difficult decision to reduce utilization, take more risk on cost and put more pressure on the team for execution. We did it. We came off the bottom of the Wall Street Journal rankings for Best Airline and hopefully, we'll move up even more if we get lucky for the rest of the year and continue to execute. But ultimately, when we get the customer feedback of best NPS, again. Admittedly, it's a pack of three of us at the top, so it's multiple airlines at the top. But we've not been at the top for a few years. So we're actually really excited about that. And then I mentioned we won a couple of JD Power awards. It's like the quality that JetBlue has been known for, for years, I think it's a lot more tied to the brand than it has been for the last couple.

Got it. Great to see that recovery there. So maybe just talk about Blue Sky for a few minutes. Can you just talk about how that is different versus the NEA, not just in terms of structure and regulatory but also in terms of revenue and kind of what you choose to get out of it. And obviously, you raised your contribution in Jet Forward from that program. Kind of what was the incremental benefit?

So I'd say a couple of things. First of all, I was not at JetBlue for the NEA, but I was a fan of the program. I thought it was a good plan. I think it helped problems at both American and JetBlue had in the Northeast, and it was very complementary. Unfortunately, the judge disagreed but I think there were a lot of learnings from the program. I think the things that were most problematic legally for the NEA was the revenue-sharing relationship and a belief kind of I wasn't here for it, I can't speak to it. I believe that there was a level of coordination that was happening, which I don't know if that's true or not. But if you look at the JetBlue United relationship, as we're now calling it Blue Sky, it actually does not include either of those really big elements. It does not include revenue sharing and does not include any sort of coordination. So if you look at the ruling that Judge Young wrote in turning down the NEA, that was basically the road map for us writing what Blue Sky would look like. So one of the things we recognize is that JetBlue struggles in the battle against the legacies in that we have a loyalty program that doesn't really give you the full utility that you could get by aligning yourself with one of the big three programs. So we have some loyalty partners, but the metaphor I use all the time is if you're a college kid who's moving from -- you pick a school, you're moving from the University of Arizona, you're moving to Boston, your first job, you're moving to New York and you get to decide whether you want to take a JetBlue credit card or a Delta credit card, it's a tough decision because the Delta points, although they're devalued, so they're not worth as much as we hear from customers constantly, you can fly anywhere in the world. And that's not true of the JetBlue program. Your points are worth more, but a lot of places we can't take you. So I think the relationship with United really creates the best of all worlds, which is we continue to maintain our program our credit card relationship with Barclays, which is fantastic, but also we can offer our customers access to the entire world. So we're very, very excited about it. Again, we learned a lot from the NEA and there are some pieces of that, that were really good. We wanted to make sure we duplicate it.

Got it. What are any potential opportunities on time line here? Obviously, it's going to take a while to put us in place. I mean you said full benefits in 2028. Any opportunities to pull that forward?

Well, let's talk about the critical path. The #1 critical path was with DOJ. And I'm not going to lie, it was a difficult process with them. They ask some very, very aggressive questions. They clearly wanted to make sure that this checked on the boxes from a legal perspective. There were some modifications made to the original agreement based on their feedback. And we have great respect for the DOJ. We want to keep them happy. So we first had to get through that. That was resolved a couple of weeks ago. At that point, we took all the paper plans and started actually spending money in implementing. Biggest critical path items now are really IT related. We actually have some experience doing programs like this. So [ the pieces of this ] we're actually in a better spot than United is. But between the two of us. I think we're hoping that we will have some customer benefits by the end of 2025. It all depends on how quickly we can implement the IT front. One of the other areas where we are very excited is the Paisly relationship. We've talked a little bit about Paisly publicly. We gave, I think, in 2023, we gave one number for Paisly EBIT. We believe, and I think it's proven out to be true. We believe we are the best in the world at ancillary products. And honestly, I did not believe that when I got here. But as we've done some surveying of competitors and seeing what others have said publicly, we think we're extremely good at this. When we were meeting with all the partners we talked to, and it was multiple airlines before we settled on United, we said we think there's also an opportunity for us to take over your ancillary products all the airlines, I think we're interested. I looked at it and compared the results that we have produced, again, public data results that we have produced versus what they were doing and they recognize that this actually could be a great accretive opportunity for both of us. So I'm really bullish about Paisley. Right now, we're working through mostly the notice period for the current relationships United has. But I'm really bullish that we can do better with Paisley than was originally forecasted.

Got it. What is the future of Paisley? I guess, is this potentially a stand-alone business that gets spun off at some point or?

Well, I mean, honestly, I'd like to leave it right now. My #1 goal is to improve earnings, get back to positive free cash flow, stop paying down the debt. And the Paisley results, it's -- I guess we haven't really reported some of the...

Yes. More regular disclosure maybe on...

Yes. We haven't really disclosed a ton about it other than the EBIT number we did in 2023, but I am extremely excited about Paisley. We are talking to other airlines beside United. I think there's almost 10 airlines right now on the [ chat ], at least airlines we have talked to and give presentations to. I think the biggest challenge we're going to have is bandwidth as far as implementation. But what we love about Paisley is that it is very high margin and extremely low capital. And right now, that's a lot better business than the airline business, sadly. So from that perspective, given where we stand as far as free cash flow, the thought of a great EBIT business with both capital needs makes us all very, very excited.

Understood. Any questions from the audience.

Can you just talk about the competitive environment you're seeing in the Fort Lauderdale market and maybe what will draw customers to book on JetBlue rather than maybe some of your other peers?

Well, I mean, we have the second biggest airline in Fort Lauderdale. We've been the biggest in the past. So we've got a really good franchise there already. With respect to the competitive environment, I think if you look at the public data about our performance in Fort Lauderdale versus our biggest competitor, which is Spirit. We've outperformed them pretty handily for a long time. The biggest impendent we've had to growth has been gate access, especially for international flying because we really want to add some more international flying. The beauty of South Florida is and as someone who lived in Latin America for 4 years, it is the capital of Latin America. And there are a lot of places south of Lauderdale we'd like to fly. You note in the announcement that's in the deck that you've got today, we've added multiple cities south and there'll be more to come hopefully as soon as we get gate access. So from a competitive perspective, I think we're very optimistic. I think the ULCCs in general have struggled when you look at the pricing environment they're in right now and the value proposition that they offer and JetBlue is extremely well positioned and has a long history of strong performance. We most recently had a pretty significant competitive incursion in San Juan from ULCC, and they've pulled almost half their growth has been pulled up already because we compete extremely well against them.

Understood. Any other questions?

I know you guys talked about rolling out domestic first class in 2026. Just wondering what markets you guys are thinking about prioritizing with this product?

That's a great question. And it's really funny because as we talk to our customers as far as where they haven't just invested first class, it really is everywhere. It's been shocking. I don't think we're ready to say exactly which markets, but I think we know where we want to put the planes first that we think has the biggest upside. Frankly, I think connecting to the transatlantic is going to be very helpful because as you look at the price environment, in general, in the U.S., the prices to the gateways, sort of New York, Boston, Washington, tend to be a -- probably New York and Boston more than Washington. Certainly, New York and Boston, the prices of their gateways tend to be lower, but the price of the interior tend to be really high. So if you're connecting through the Buffalo or Detroit or places like that, so the ability to offer first-class product in conjunction with the transatlantic business class and offer that product all the way. We think it's going to be very rich accretive. So I would love to get more Atlantic connectivity as quick as I can. And just as a reminder, domestic first class should show up late second, early third quarter of '26.

If not -- so the clarity on GTF was lifted a huge overhang for you guys. Do you feel like that's kind of locked and in the buy? And kind of what does that give you in terms of optionality for like future scheduling?

Yes. Really good question. So the GTF has probably been our biggest impediment over the last few years, we have not been able to grow. When we entered 2025, we initially thought we were going to have mid- to high teens number of aircraft on the ground. That has materially improved. So we're actually going to average less than 10 throughout 2025. 2025 is actually going to be the peak AOGs that we have on the ground. So that will step change down as we enter 2026 and then will be fully resolved by the end of 2027. So next year, we'll actually be able to grow again. So we're pretty excited about that. That will be very beneficial from a unit cost efficiency perspective. The contributors to the improvement of the GTF has been we've induced a significant amount of self-help. So we are about 3 to 4x over spared. We have sourced those engines on our own. Pratt & Whitney is seeing improvement in their supply chain and a slight improvement in their turnaround times. We've also seen engines staying on wing longer. So some of the interval extensions have occurred. So all in all, super pleased with the level of improvement and it definitely sets us up on a path to be growing again, which we're extremely pleased with.

Got it. So obviously, Jet Forward takes you out to 2028 and probably not much in terms of like cash return or anything else until that point. So how do you think of the balance sheet between now and then kind of managing liquidity and kind of the options ahead of you until you get to that point?

Yes. So Jet Forward is obviously a multiyear program. We executed an aircraft deferral last year to ensure that we have a runway deliver free cash flow at the culmination of Jet Forward in 2027. So we're definitely on a path to #1 goal is positive operating margin. Number two, is positive free cash flow; and number 3 is going to be delevering the balance sheet. So definitely a multiyear journey. We just kicked off our 2026 planning process. And our aspiration is to hopefully build a plan that gets us at least to breakeven. So that's the operation. We need a lot of -- we need the macro backdrop to be constructive and the setup to be able to help us deliver that. But again, I'm extremely pleased with the team's execution of the Jet Forward initiatives and excited about the opportunity in front of us as we navigate into 2026.

Got it. We haven't had much chance to talk about this and maybe I'll ask you about this, just the regulatory environment in the U.S. right now, kind of when you think about the initiatives to finally modernize ATC, which looks like it's kind of concrete actions taking place there. I think there was a ruling -- was it last week about some of the fees kind of being reversed from the previous administration era. What does that mean to you guys? It feels like given your Northeast exposure, like you might be one of the biggest beneficiaries of ATC capacity improving and potentially kind of these features as well. So how do you think about that like being almost a back pocket driver for...

There is no question that in this market, nobody benefits more from air traffic control reform that we do -- and I have to be honest, the government, the new administrator, the Secretary of transportation, everyone is saying the right things. I'm feeling very optimistic that we may finally see some movement on air traffic control reform. So money is being allocated, it seems to be a design philosophy. So we're actually very bullish about this. It will also take many, many years. So we are not counting on this as being any part of our coverage until -- yes, it's going to be 5 to 10, I think, for this to really come. But I'm very bullish about it. With respect to the regulatory changes, I think we were hurt actually on a relative basis from regulatory changes more than others because the customer care side of managing disruptions. We've always been more liberal than our competitors. So we offered a better value proposition than they did. And then all of a sudden, it's regulated that everyone has to go up more towards JetBlue's level. So it's like one of my distinction goes away. So from that perspective, I think it's good for this to change. I will say also the previous administration, it was a very unusual and somewhat unevenly distributed level of focus on what was important and what was not important. Again, we've -- being based in the Northeast, we've spent a lot of time dealing with disruptions and we know the levers. And I think it was the regulatory environment was not a great one before. So knock on wood, I think we're feeling very good about the situation we're in right now.

Understood. So maybe just to kind of quickly wrap up obviously, lots going on. But in terms of the pure catalyst kind of -- how much are you guys focused on Jet Forward initiatives versus kind of dealing with everything else out there in the macro?

I mean, listen, underneath, we still are focused on the mission and values of the company. The great advantages to travel, our 5 values, nothing changes that. Jet Forward is going to be an important tool to get us back to financial performance. We recognize that it's a slower process than we would like and then investors would like. But frankly, every single of those initiatives has real money tied to it. And we're very happy with how we're executing to this so far. But it is clear that Jet Forward is the recipe to go forward for us. That being the case, I think we all recognize that this is Jet Forward 1. We're going to have Jet Forward 2, Jet Forward 3. This is -- it's not the old line, "It's just a marathon, not a sprint". It's not a sprint, it's not a marathon, it's a marathon that never ends. So we're clearly not going to rest on this. And we'll continue to look for the next level of initiatives that are going to bring our owners the return they expect.

Very good. Marty, Ursula, thanks so much for being here.

Pleasure. Thanks for having us.