Jindal Saw Limited (JINDALSAW) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q4 FY '21 Results Conference Call of Jindal Saw Limited Hosted by Emkay Global Financial Services. We have with us today Mr. Neeraj Kumar, Group CEO and Whole Time Director; Mr. Vinay Gupta, Global Head Treasury; and Mr. Narendra Mantri, Head commercial and CFO. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Ayush Bansal of Emkay Global. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Good afternoon, everyone. I would like to welcome the management and thank them to giving us this opportunity. I would now hand over the call to the management for their opening remarks. Over to you, sir.

Good afternoon, friends. I'm Neeraj Kumar. First of all, I hope all of you are keeping healthy, all of you are keeking safe and I wish the well-being and good health of all my friends, investors, stakeholders, all the people who are connected to the call. Thank you very much for sparing time during these times. As you know, late last week, was that we completed our Board meeting to announce our annual results, including the Q4 results. And I'm sure all of you would have got a chance to look at it. I would just like to let you know that we are all, that is my team, are taking this call from home because the lockdown situation in Delhi continues and therefore, we all are at different places and coming through this audio network. And therefore, I would request all of you that sometimes in the questions, we may have to stagger it in a manner where we can, as a team, answer your questions [ completely ]. With that, let me begin. This time, I would like to change our usual format of presentation. I would [ confirm the ] Jindal Saw performance and the outlook towards the end because topmost on all of us, every one's mind is the pandemic, the second wave, how we are dealing with it. I'm happy to let you know at Jindal Saw, as we dealt successfully with the first wave with 0 fatalities, in the second wave too, we have managed relatively well. By that, I would like to confirm that all our factories, all our units are working, and they are working well. But for the lockdown situation where some of us in some of the cities are constrained to work from home, all other units and all of our offices are also working. So I can confirm that at Jindal Saw, we are fully functional, but compliance with the regulatory long-term situations, et cetera. This year -- this wave as well, the fatalities, we have suffered some fatalities because, as you know, we are a multi-point and a multi-location large factories organization. But the total number of fatalities, including workers, et cetera, everybody, is single digits, probably just 7 or 8, to be exact. And most of the places, people are healthy. This is on account of the efforts that has been taken by Jindal Saw to give precaution, protection as well as whatever assistance. We all -- at all our units, has created a safety bubble kind of a scenario where within the premises, we have [ created ] quarantine centers. Now I'm also happy to let you people know that 3 of our units, which is Bhilwara, Cosi and Samaghogha, through our CSR initiatives, we have decided to put up oxygen plants, which will be dedicated to medical-grade oxygen. And we intend to serve our community around -- be a supplier of oxygen to the major hospitals around so that we can extend that security or safety level not just to our factories, but also a little around the community that we can serve. We will continue to maintain this infrastructure, have tie-ups with the hospitals in case of any emergency, in case of any requirement of ICU because all our internal quarantine centers have all facilities [ but other ] ventilators in ICU. So we are dealing with the situation as it develops. We have also taken the initiative of vaccinating the entire workforce management and by -- because now the government has opened up the vaccination possibility to above 18 years of age and also has allowed the hospital and state participation. So through that, we are working on getting our entire workforce vaccinated so that then we can continue our operations uninterrupted. We all hope and pray that as a country, as a region, as a world, we are able to come out of it and the economy and everything else gets backed on track soon. With that, let me turn my attention to some of the important initiatives and decisions that we have taken in the last Board meeting. First, as you all know that we had a fittings factory, which was in Jindal Fittings Ltd., which was making fittings for Jindal Saw GI pipe division. We also had a stainless steel business, which we use for JQTL. And we also had [indiscernible] Jindal Tubular Limited where we had a large [indiscernible] pipe. All 3 businesses, these businesses so far were operating like subsidiaries. It was essentially done through this that required initial attention to the unit as the [indiscernible] business. Now this year, these businesses have grown to a reasonable size, and we have taken a decision of merging all of them into Jindal Saw because it was like [ slanted ] in subsidiaries initially to incubate and grow it up to a certain size, certain scale. Time has come now to structurally merge these units with Jindal Saw. From a company standpoint, from your investor standpoint, from other stakeholders' standpoint, now these businesses will be a part of Jindal Saw and therefore, there will be complete transparency. We will not have issues of accounting, et cetera, going forward. And from a business standpoint, we will get the synergies of this all getting covered under Jindal Saw direct [indiscernible] in terms of [ divergence ], in terms of standards, in terms of prequalifications. In all aspects, now they are an integrated part of the Jindal Saw stand-alone unit. We expect to benefit from these synergies because GI pipe business is going. As you know, India has a huge emphasis now on the [indiscernible]. So the pipe units and the fitting units will operate very, very closely together. Stainless business, as you know, has been a very important aspect of our growth strategy when it came to alloy steel, carbon steel, stainless steel, pipes and tubes market. So that would get integrated in terms of every aspect of the management. And the large diameter pipe business, which was [ endorsed ] would also be now one more unit for Jindal Saw for large diameter pipes as we stand to address the opportunities [indiscernible] India, especially the [indiscernible] mission. Subsidiaries. With this reorganization of merger of all these units, we would be [indiscernible] JITF, of which I will talk a little later. We would have then the U.S. subsidiary and we would have the Abu Dhabi subsidiary. [ Support ] for these, now Jindal Saw will be a very [indiscernible] stand-alone entities encompassing all these businesses, making our business model even more robust. Turning our attention to the subsidiaries. As you all must have seen, the difference between the stand-alone and the consolidated results, the subsidiaries have started doing well. Foremost, our Abu Dhabi unit [ needs some mention ] this year. We crossed 2 lakh tonnes of manufacturing [ in dispatch ], which is the best ever for that unit. And we have a very healthy road book -- order book and a path ahead where having crossed 2 lakh tonnes, which is the highest ever, this year, we are planning to go beyond 2 lakhs and come as close to 2.5 lahks. If the pandemic situation doesn't worsen and if we are able to do regular business in Abu Dhabi, we are confident that we will be able to come very close to 2.5 lakhs or even growth further. The American subsidiary of ours, because of the economic situation there resulting out of the pandemic and the old administration, as you know, they're putting oil and gas on all of those sectors [indiscernible]. We are beginning to see some traction with the announcements that the Joe Biden administration has made. They have made allocations to infrastructure sector. Water sector is definitely seeing some buoyancy, and we expect that it would follow even the oil and gas as well as the shale gas sector. Otherwise also, in the U.S., the pipeline infrastructure is -- has become old, and we expect some replacement demand also to generate some good business with us. This is on the demand side. On the supply side also, we have seen a certain amount of reduction because many of the pipe units that were there, they have not been able to sustain the pressure of the pandemic situation and have either curtailed their production or have shut down units. So there is a balancing of supply/demand. And with Joe Biden administration announcing these packages for infrastructure development, we are hopeful that the U.S. subsidiary will also start doing very well and go back to its old glory where it has always been. Turning our attention to JITF. As you all know, in JITF, at this point of time, there is a major litigation that is happening, which was -- which is the high court, was getting delayed because of the pandemic. In the [indiscernible] that we found open, we did manage to get a very significant hearing. We had to get some senior counsel. And we have achieved one significant milestone where now the Section 34 objections and all other related matters have been separated by the honorable court. They could see the merit in our arguments that these need to be dealt with separately because unnecessarily [indiscernible] this arbitration award and their Section 34 objections plus our enforcement must be separated. All other things can be dealt with, which are nonmaterial, I would say, in light of the size of the arbitration award that we have. So now the honorable court has separated these 2 matters, posted different dates for hearing. And those dates, we were fully prepared to go into those Section 34 as well as enforcement hearing when the second wave hit, and those dates have been postponed. It is now due in July. But having achieved this, it gives us confidence that the arbitration matter would move very fast and should reach its logical conclusion. We are also hopeful that the other matters, which relate to a few other smaller issues, like transfer of those conveyor belts at [indiscernible] would also be closed. But anyway, that is not material either in terms of money or in terms of any other issue with respect to or in light of this arbitration award. So we are hopeful that once the courts open, the arbitration award hearing, which is their objection under Section 34 and our enforcement, would move and it should move faster. So having covered all the subsidiaries and other major decisions that we have taken, let me now turn our focus to Jindal Saw. If you look at the Jindal Saw results, we could achieve an annual top line of INR 8,900 crores, which was down by 14% from the last year's INR 10,327 crores, but that was largely due to a complete wash-out of Q1 where there was a national lockdown. And all the factories, et cetera, everything had to be brought down to just the bare minimum survival. Quarter 2 was also a period where we were kind of building up. And therefore, I would request you to look at our focus on our Q4 results, which is the quarter that we got last year to operate as a normal unit in a normal economic and business environment. There, we achieved a turnover of INR 3,200 crores with an EBITDA of INR 460 crores. That, if you take an extra [ unit ], you would clearly come to the same situation where we believe that we are now at a point of inflection. From here on, because of the tailwinds and government policies [indiscernible] a few other policies, stabilization of the oil prices, we are beginning to see the benefit of that. And that's how, on an annualized basis, if you take these numbers, it very well surpasses the last year's performance. And we are hopeful that in the next 2 to 3 years, we should see a very healthy growth overall of these numbers. Other significant issue that I would like to point out is our financial expenses because financial expenses have also come down significantly. For the quarter, we have shown INR 90 crores, which used to be upward of INR 100 crores in most of the earlier quarters. This has largely happened because we have bought in some further correction in our capital structure. In March, we could get INR 500 crores NCD from LIC at a very, very economical rate with a very long -- it's a 10-year paper, back-ended maturity. So that has given us a lot of comfort in terms of directing our liability profile even further. Where the cost has come down, the maturity profile has elongated. And we still continue to bring our overall loan. That also, I will come to in a minute, has come down. We have shown significant amount of reduction in the stand-alone as well as in the consolidated loan for the company over the years. Besides correcting the liability profile and bringing down the cost of debt, a lot of emphasis has also been put on [ the seasons ]. We have improved the collections very largely, and that has helped on been bringing down the working capital utilization. Consequently, the financial charges have also come down. So it's a combination of treasury function, correction in liability profile as well as operations in collecting advances, in collecting receivables on time. Having a tight credit control, that has resulted in the decrease in the financial charges which, on an annual basis, is also showing a 20% decrease. On a quarter-on-quarter basis, it shows a 35% [ decrease ]. If you see the other ratios, PBT to sales has also improved and has improved from quarter-on-quarter from the range of 4, 5, it has gone to 8.5 plus. So we, as I said, keep on looking at that. But we think that now we are at a point of inflection. And once the normal economy comes -- in terms of -- once we turn to normalcy when it comes to the overall economy and the business environment, we are very confident that at Jindal Saw, we are completely ready, and we would be able to take full benefit out of that and consolidate our leadership position. Another thing that I wish to highlight, which we have always been saying that our business model is so robust that any of these stressful situations or extreme volatility in any segment, there is a counterbalancing mechanism, which is keeping Jindal Saw very strong even now. Simple example, we all know what is happening in the iron and steel sector, which is the input for our pipe businesses. A lot of volatility there. But that's where the pellet business has helped us because that drives the steel [ base ]. So there is a compensatory effect, and there is a normalizing effect, a balancing effect for Jindal Saw as a whole in the business. Now with stainless steel business also joining our portfolio, we believe that it would have a further solidifying effect of all these different business dynamics. Plus stainless steel, if they are able to get into those high-grade, exotic, value added, it will also help us to improving all other ratios in terms of EBITDA, et cetera. And now we are all set to really grow fast in our stainless steel business. If you now look at our production data, et cetera, which all of you have looked at, pellets has kept us absolutely in the forefront for this year as well. The order book situation, as you know, our sweet spot is having an order book of more than 1 billion. At present, we are at 800 million. This is largely on account of a very good execution in the last quarter. After that, because of the second wave, the order flow has reduced a little bit. Plus, we are also waiting and watching for the raw material prices to get stabilized a bit, which we believe has reached a peak, and there should be some correction in the iron and steel sector. And therefore, the -- on paper, in terms of numbers, the order book shows a decline for over 1 billion to about 800 million, but we are very confident and it fits into our strategy. We will ramp it up the moment the economy opens because there are plenty on the horizon, whether it is in the oil and gas sector, whether it is in the other infrastructure sector. Retail sector is a very important sector that we have opened up for ourselves. We have been able to make a breakthrough through our seamless business into the gas cylinder business, whether it is the CNG or others. That's a significant development that we have made in the seamless business to break into the cylinders business. So looking at all of these businesses that are there on the horizon, the opportunities that we see, we are very hopeful and confident that we are ready. It is like we have the resilience. Whenever the external environment causes difficulties or puts pressure on us, fundamentally, we are so strong that we have to dive into our inner strength, and that gives us hope, that keeps us ready to take advantage of the moment normalcy is returned to the economy and the business environment. So on order book, we are confident that the moment things open up, riding on the [indiscernible], riding on the [ other scheme ], we would be able to get our order book to over 1 billion, which is our sweet spot in a very short period of time. Another very important aspect that I would like to mention is through our seamless business, we have entered the [ 13 ] chrome. That's a special grade market. And the [indiscernible] is also focusing on substituting the pipes and tubes, among other things, which were earlier imported by domestic products. Wherever we are showing capabilities, we are executing our developmental orders, be it in the drill pipe segment, be it in the other exotic segment, as I said, we are getting entry and we are getting significant businesses from those, which are also profitable because they are those value-added and exotic grades. So the [indiscernible] scheme is also helping us in this. Encouraged by all of these, Hunting and we, which we already had announced an alliance coming together, we have decided to, both of us, further solidify this relationship where we are upgrading our [indiscernible] facilities, absorbing more technologies, getting some more equipments so that now our Hunting-Jindal relationship can actually participate in the global supply chain. Because -- there is one more important aspect that I would like to mention. As you all may know, Hunting is the American giant. They had a strong presence in China because of the geopolitical situation. This alliance of Jindal and Hunting is looking at how much can be absorbed from those developments into India, in our market facility to start with and maybe add, if required, how much of that can be absorbed [indiscernible] in this alliance so that it goes up the value chain, we get more technologies, we start producing more products and we also get better integrated with a global supply chain and also some among the frontline suppliers to OCTG market to the [ CR ] grades on a global scale. So there, some significant steps are being taken. Hunting and we, as we speak, are engaged in a very meaningful, very fruitful, positive-looking dialogue. And we may be able to reach some good conclusion soon where we would be able to stitch even a much stronger and deeper tie. Raw material prices, are we very concerned? The answer is no because we know that it is likely to correct the steel prices, the likes of where it has these builds. We believe -- soon corrected them. And also now we are able to pass on some of the increase in the raw material prices to our customers. What it has done is whether it is the [indiscernible] infrastructure scheme or any other infrastructure investment, either through state or center or through EPCs, we are seeing, especially in the water sector, some slowing down because of the high input costs. But we believe that once it is [ contained ], every state by now has its own plan for water [indiscernible]. They have got huge allocations, and they all have a desire to get into [indiscernible]. We will benefit from that. We are getting ready. And that was one of the reasons to get our [ indoor ] plant also within the Jindal Saw [ pole ] currently. Because [indiscernible] has a lot of river linking or water body linking, long transmission and a water grid project as we see in Rajasthan, as we see in Uttar Pradesh. In Uttar Pradesh, we have our Kosi plant. In Rajasthan, we are able to supply from Samaghogha plant. So we are hoping that all of these, our Jal Jeevan Mission, [indiscernible] which I've already spoken about, will give us enough push, enough opportunities. And as Jindal Saw, because of our fundamental spend, debt coming under control, the management bandwidth being expanded, people like Hunting coming together to scale up our quality consciousness, visibility, all of these point towards a very promising future. As we speak, we are at a point of inflection, what we believe. And we are absolutely ready. The moment the economy opens up, we will be able to go up. On the Middle East region, which again largely contributes for our exports, we are also seeing that now relatively things are beginning to settle down. Oil prices have settled down. Countries like Iraq has started getting these buildings. So there, also, we are hopeful. And a firm indication of the stabilization of the MEA reason is the good performance of our Abu Dhabi unit, which again largely supports the water sector, which is very much in scarcity there. So with all of these, we see that we have very good future ahead of us once we are able to get to terms with this pandemic in India and in the region. Before I close, one more thing that I must also confirm to all of you, the first tranche of [ ESOP ], which we have structured as a stock -- share appreciation or stock appreciation rights, has been distributed. Management -- as management, we have taken a view to go as wide and deep as possible. So first tranche has been executed, and we wish to continue with that as we move forward. So all said, let me close by saying that in the next 3 years, we must have a double-digit growth. Only one caveat, how does COVID pan out and how much disruption is [ coming ]. Otherwise, on a CAGR basis, we are very confident of a double-digit growth over the next 3 years, the way we see it now in terms of our preparedness. Fundamental strength is there and we are ready. So with this opening, let me stop. And also let me greet my stakeholders, analysts, shareholders, investors, all of you. Please take note of our e-mail ID, which is rajeev.goyal@jindalsaw.com. Because -- since we are all at different places, my request would be if there is a very specific question about some specific numbers, please forward you query to rajeev.goyal -- he's a senior member of our treasury team. He works in Vinay's team -- @jindalsaw.com Our assurance to you, it would be replied. Definitely, we will make an attempt to reply all your queries within a week's time. So with that, let me close and invite some questions. Thank you all. Thank you very much for taking interest in us. And thank you for having the patience and the faith in Jindal Saw Limited.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Manish Bhandari from Vallum Capital.

I have 2 questions. One is regarding the debt reduction plan. So Neeraj and team, if you can guide us that -- what should be the debt reduction plan going forward? And also, on the interest rate, you have some netting of the interest income from the subsidiaries, which would be notional in nature as I understand. So if you could tell us what should be the total cash out expense of the interest on an annual basis? So this is my first question.

Okay. First question, let me address your debt -- question related to debt. In March 2020, the total debt of J Saw was INR 3,550 crores, which has now come down to INR 2,900 crores. On a consolidated basis, the total debt was INR 5,000 crores since March 2020, has now come down to INR 4,200 crores. This year, if you see in our current liability, if you've got a chance to look at my balance sheet, there is a lot of repayment, which is falling due during this year. Our intention is to follow the debt profile, and you would see a significant reduction on the Jindal Saw debt during this year because there are some natural repayments, which are falling due. Also, Manish, let me tell you that having got that INR 500 crores LIC money for 10 years, any major future borrowing programs, we don't have to do because we have enough working capital. Also, let me address maybe -- some other viewers also should have this question. CapEx for Jindal Saw for the year would be limited to the maintenance CapEx and some capacity balancing CapEx. We do not have any major projects on Jindal Saw at present, and we do not intend taking on any major projects in Jindal Saw. There are some CapEx that we will see in our total [ year ] if you look at my CWIT figures. Some capacity balancing and increase is happening at Abu Dhabi. Part of -- also happening at U.S. So that we are ready for, as I told you, in Abu Dhabi now from 2 lakh tonnes, we want to go to 2.5 lakh tonnes. In U.S. also, we want to make sure that we are ready for the market when it opens up. A few corrections are required. So there is no major CapEx at least in Jindal Saw at a stand-alone basis. As far as netting of interest income, et cetera, is concerned, it is not significant, Manish. The major part is largely on account of -- the reduction is in interest expenses, and that should stay there.

Sure. My second question is regarding your comment on the robustness of [indiscernible] the pellet prices and being hedged versus the other changes. So one confusion I have is related to [indiscernible] pellet prices have gone up substantially. And our cost of production remains the same because of our backward integration. So if I have to think hard, then maybe we should be a beneficiary of the pellet prices, maybe something we will give in the way until we have some order book, which we cannot pass on India or in field. But once the...

Manish, you are absolutely on the money. Because of these mines available in the house, we have even curtailed purchase of [ skilled ] -- mills and other things, so that in our pellet division, we are able to maximize the benefit that we are getting out of the high prices in the iron and steel sector. And we wish that we will continue to have that benefit. In the time, the iron and steel businesses price, there is a correction. Then we would have our pipe business pick up -- order book pick up. So that's the robustness of Jindal Saw that there is a compensatory mechanism inherent in the system itself. And then we would start doing well on the [ large dia ] or the DI, for which, as I have already told you, most of the states have got their pipe grid plan in place. They have delayed their tenders. I can give you a few examples where we have been in touch with the senior people to the amount of tenders there. But they have just held it back on account of these volatility in the raw material prices because these power -- because these water projects are -- or tend to be price sensitive. So you are absolutely right on that, Manish, that we have a robust model, and we'll get that benefit one way or the other.

And lastly, Neeraj, you spoke about the [indiscernible]. So what is the total number of shares [indiscernible] for me to buy, just need to buy? And is there a time frame when they will buy this and we will [indiscernible] to report?

What we have done is we have set up a trust in the company, which is managed independently by independent trustees. As for the rule, they get some industry loans from the company, use that to buy shares of Jindal Saw. And then out of those shares, the stock appreciation rights are distributed to the employees, which for the current term, would get vested in the employees in percentages over a 2-year period. And that is how we wish to continue. And once the liquidation part happens, the trust will build its own corpus, and then it will further grow, and the whole thing will be then run in a cycle, which will be used to retain employees, make them part of our alignment with the goals. And in the process, they would also get rewarded by the appreciation in the stocks.

The next question is from the line of [ Jira from Avira ].

My question is on the order book side. You mentioned we are expecting a good flow of order once the economy gets normalized. What is the year-end target for FY '22 and FY '23 to receive all...

The year-end target, as I told you, the sweet spot of our order book is always above 1 billion. And now with the stainless business and all those coming in, we expect that to grow a little higher. So this gap of current order book of 800 million to going above 1 billion should be a function of a few months. The moment the economy opens, and those tenders and those projects are on track.

The next question is from the line of Pratiksha Daftari from Aequitas Investment.

So my first question was about DI pipe. So now considering that DI right now is a substantial portion of our order book. And over the last 2 years, we've seen this come up, say, from 35-odd percent to now 55%. How do we see the margins -- overall blended margins being impacted considering that raw material price hike would be most felt in this segment?

In the DI segment, if you see, our entry point is iron ore numbers. We have our own blast furnace, which also, we manufacture some -- like we do pellets there, here, we do some [ figures ]. So since the entry point is iron ore lumps, and we do right up [indiscernible] DI pipe, the value add that we have within our premises is significant. And we are very hopeful of the DI market. We are very hopeful of the DI pipe segment because now there is a very large range of accessibility of using DI pipes for potable water as opposed to any other pipe for transporting at least drinking water. So DI pipe, we are confident and would definitely be very much involved in the growth story of Jindal Saw over the next 2 to 3 years.

Sir, what I wanted to understand was that, how would the margins be in this segment? Like do we expect considering DI being such a huge portion?

Okay. Yes, the margins also may include because demand/supply -- demand is likely to grow. Whereas in supply, we have just heard 1 or 2 announcements. But yes, even if they're certified, they are 24 months at least down the line. So in the interim, because of the water grid project, the demand is likely to exceed current supply that we have. And not all players in the DI market are fundamentally that strong. I'm talking about the current players as we are to take advantage of that. So there is a demand/supply benefit that we are going to get, demand exceeding supply. And the related strength of the DI manufacturers should, again, put us in a very good stead where we would be able to gain market from there. Also, it's important now to point out with this merger, we would be only among the 2 players who would be making that fitting. And fitting also gives you a good margin because then you can become a total [ 5-plus rating ] supplier to EPC contractor or a large project. So now we're expecting also getting merged in Jindal Saw. Those margins also will also get captured in Jindal Saw holding.

And sir, on the seamless front, do we expect to maintain the volume growth that we saw in FY '21? Or do we expect to do better?

In terms of capacity, we have expanded. As you know, we have gone up to 16 inches. As you know, now our Nagothane plant has also ready [indiscernible] and is ready to give out carbon steel sites up to 8 inches. We have tested, we have upgraded that facility. So Nashik now goes up to 16 inches. Nagothane goes up to 8 inches. And we have done some capacity balancing, rebalancing between both the plants so that we would be able to run long campaigns. And therefore, yes, we are ready for a volume growth. In terms of the production growth, we are definitely ready. And we expect some volume growth also to come in because this segment caters to the defense. As I told you, we have made a break in the gas cylinders because gas cylinder, the body is nothing but a seamless pipe. And then you do the 2 side cutting and other things. So looking at all of these, we are confident and hopeful that our seamless segment giving us growth, yes.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Saket Kapoor from Kapoor and Company.

Sir, just in continuation to the earlier speaker, sir, does gas cylinder a part opportunity, if you could elaborate, sir? Is it an import substitute that we are doing, sir? And currently, is Jindal Saw the only player or the seamless players are also in the foray?

We have made a recent breakthrough, and we intend them becoming one of the largest suppliers to car manufacturers for their CNG cylinders. It is, in a manner of speaking, an import substitute because so far, this was dominated because some of the car manufacturers are again [indiscernible]. So they have other players also involved in it. We would be definitely now addressing this segment very seriously. And in terms of your second question, how many Indian players have broken into this? I have to come back to you on that. I don't have a data ready-made on my hand. But it was a difficult segment to break because we had to pass through a lot of kind of metallurgical and other steps because as you know, the gas business has a heavy security concern. Because the [ handle ] high pressure in different kind of scenarios -- because vehicles, et cetera, they are always moving on the road, they face different heat situations. So who are the other engine players into the segment? I will try and come back. Rajeev, in fact, if you are listening to this question, please make sure that we reply that [ immediately ].

Yes, sir. As for the restructuring committee part, I think, sir, you have elaborated the entire concept what this committee would be now looking into the restructuring of subsidiaries. So sir, going forward for this year, sir, what has been the contribution from the fitting business part and the Abu Dhabi to the top line and bottom line?

Abu Dhabi, if I recall correctly -- Mantri, are you on the call? What are -- EBITDA contribution of $20 million?

Yes. That is from Abu Dhabi?

Yes, Mantri, Abu Dhabi because -- okay, broadly, while you look at the number, Mantri, the -- if you just look at the stand-alone EBITDA and the consolidated EBITDA, the difference largely is coming from Abu Dhabi. But what is the exact EBITDA? Probably it is $20 million, if I recall correctly.

It is more than $20 million. But the exact number, we'll revert to Mr. Kapoor [indiscernible].

It is about -- certainly, thereabouts. But we have added about $20 million to our EBITDA from Abu Dhabi.

The next question is from the line of Anish Tusnial from Wealth Creators.

Congratulations for a good set of numbers. This is my [ one ] question. Sir, when you talk about the NTPC [indiscernible], the amount we have received already is INR 50 crores odd. So that is given against [indiscernible], right? So can we get a breakout of how much debt has gone into the current portion of that so that we can get a clear picture. As you know [indiscernible] money will come by paying [indiscernible]?