Jindal Stainless Limited ($JSL)

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Jindal Stainless Limited Q4 FY '26 Earnings Conference Call hosted by AMBIT Capital Private Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Satyadeep Jain from AMBIT Capital Private Limited. Thank you and over to you, Mr. Jain.

Thank you, operator. Good evening. And on behalf of AMBIT Capital, I thank the management team of Jindal Stainless for the opportunity to host their Q4 FY '26 earnings conference call. We have the following members of management with us today: Mr. Abhyuday Jindal, Managing Director; Mr. Tarun Khulbe, CEO, CFO and Whole-Time Director; Mr. Kapil Arora, Head of Finance; Mr. Angad Khurana, Head of Investor Relations; and Mr. Abhishek Tambi, who is the part of IR team. I now hand over the call to Mr. Angad Khurana. Thank you all and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Satyadeep. Good day, everyone, and thank you for joining us for the company's Q4 FY '26 earnings call. I hope you all had a chance to review the results and the accompanying presentation uploaded on the exchanges and on our website earlier. Our discussion on the call will follow that presentation. Before we begin, I would like to remind you that some of the statements made today may be forward-looking in nature and are covered by the disclaimer on Slide 2 of the earnings presentation. Joining me on the call today is the senior leadership team who will take you through the key business developments and the performance for this quarter. After the remarks, we will open the floor for the questions. With that, let me hand it over to our Managing Director, Mr. Abhyuday Jindal, to take you through the highlights. Over to you, sir.

Thank you, Angad, and a very good evening to everyone. I would also like to welcome you all to our earnings call. I will begin by outlining the key business highlights for the quarter and year ending March 2026 and the progress we continue to make across our priority sectors. Following that, Mr. Khulbe will take you through our operational and financial performance. Continuing the positive momentum, our sales volume in FY '26 grew by 8% year-on-year supported by sustained domestic demand amid the volatility in the export market. In the domestic market, JSL's performance was consistent underpinned by demand momentum from key sectors such as automotive, ornamental pipe and tube, industrial pipe and tube, railway, metro, lift elevator and white goods. Last quarter we had initiated a calibrated shift in our brand strategy to complement our strong B2B leadership with a sharper consumer-facing presence. The onboarding of Ranveer Singh as the company's first-ever brand ambassador and the launch of a nationwide multimedia campaign marks a structural step-up for our natural brand presence. The Jindal Infinity campaign focuses on authenticity and informed choice addressing long-standing issues of countrfeiting and quality opacity in key segments such as pipe and tube while reinforcing stainless steel relevance. In parallel, we have also associated with Sunriser Hyderabad to leverage the cultural scale and emotional equity of cricket to deepen engagement with younger and mass audiences. Together, these initiatives will help strengthen top-of-mind recall, support channel partners through co-branded outreach and enhance long-term brand equity as consumption-led applications of stainless steel scale up across India. We believe the timing is appropriate as we enter our next phase of growth with brand building acting as a strategic enabler of demand creation, differentiation and sustained value creation. Stainless steel demand in the passenger coach segment also increased traction from strong growth -- also saw increased traction from strong growth. The modern AC coaches, which use both shell and stainless steel underframes, will contribute to the demand of stainless steel for coach manufacturing. Higher activity in metro projects across the country also supported the strong delivery momentum. Going forward in FY '27, several new metro projects are slated to go on stream in Bengaluru, Mumbai, Gurugram and Delhi. With export demand for India-made metro coaches also picking up, the demand for stainless steel is expected to witness a jump of 2x to 3x over the next 3 to 4 years. The Indian lift and elevator industry is expected to witness steady growth in FY '27 driven by urbanization, infra development, rising demand for efficient vertical transportation systems. Developments in Middle East continue to influence energy markets and global supply chains. The ongoing situation has affected the availability of key industrial gases, including propane, LPG, natural gas, ammonia. In parallel, disruption in shipping lanes have resulted in route diversions, extended transit periods and intermittent cargo delays adding pressure on logistics and cost structure. We are monitoring the situation closely for improved clarity around fuel allocations and the normalization of supply conditions. On the export front, global trade sentiments continue to remain subdued due to ongoing trade and geopolitical uncertainties. Despite these headwinds, JSL demonstrated strong execution capability, delivering higher export volumes on a quarter-on-quarter basis, maintaining a focus on expanding into markets such as Japan, Korea, Taiwan and Germany. Inferior imported materials continue to enter India at a large scale. The temporary suspension of QCO is a matter of concern and poses a discouraging setback for quality focused domestic industry players. We remain hopeful that the government will strengthen and enforce frameworks that uphold quality standards to protect consumers and MSMEs alike. In this environment, Jindal Stainless retains its market share through its agility, cost competitiveness and a customer-first approach. On sustainability front, JSL continues its streak of ESG excellence, achieving an EcoVadis score of 71 out of 100 in Q4 '26 with the bronze metal recognition. In parallel, our continued commitment towards a cleaner and more resilient energy mix saw the partial commissioning of a 315-megawatt solar/wind hybrid power project in collaboration with Oyster Renewable Energy this quarter. At JSL, we remain steadfast and continue to march towards our long-term decarbonization goals. With this, I would like to hand over to Mr. Khulbe to discuss operational and financial performance. Thank you.

Thank you, Abhyuday. Good evening, everyone. Welcome to the call. I would like to begin by providing a detailed overview of our operational and financial performance. Despite geopolitical headwinds, our Q4 FY '26 deliveries were at 0.64 million tonnes remaining steady on a year-on-year basis. Our Q4 consolidated EBITDA increased by around 37% year-on-year and around 3% on quarter-on-quarter to INR 1,455 crores. Our consolidated PAT stood at INR 834 crores, an increase of around 41% on year-on-year and around 1% on quarter-on-quarter basis. For FY '26, our deliveries stood at 2.57 million tonnes with an increase of around 8% year-on-year. Consolidated EBITDA increased by around 19% year-on-year to INR 5,560 crores and consolidated PAT stood at INR 3,185 crores with an increase of around 27% year-on-year basis. We are pleased to report continued improvement in our balance sheet. As of March 31, 2026, our consolidated net debt has further reduced to INR 3,040 crores with a net debt-to-EBITDA ratio at 0.55x, comfortably below 1 and a net debt-to-equity ratio of 0.15 reflecting our disciplined approach to financial management. This robust financial management continues to place in a better position to navigate ongoing macroeconomic challenges. On our subsidiaries front, all subsidiaries have shown improvement and contributed positively to the group's overall EBITDA. The announced CapEx plan is progressing well and remains on track. The 1.2 million tonnes per annum at stainless steel melt shop in Indonesia is successfully commissioned ahead of schedule taking the company's total melting capacity to 4.2 million tonnes per annum, including 3 million tonnes per annum in India. In parallel, downstream expansion projects in India are advancing as planned, including the upcoming commissioning of 1.1 million tonnes per annum HRAP line and 0.17 million tonnes per annum CRAP line at Jajpur. To further strengthen downstream integration, the company announced an additional INR 900 crore commitment towards augmenting cold rolling capacities at Hisar and Kharagpur. With these investments, our value-added capabilities will be enhanced, increasing CRAP capacity to 2.67 million tonnes per annum by FY '28 and aligning the expanded melt capacity with downstream readiness. This integrated expansion will support our sales volume target of 3.5 million tonnes per annum by FY '29 translating into a robust double-digit compounded growth over the next 3 years. Jindal Stainless Steelway Limited, a subsidiary of JSL Group, has commenced operation in its first stainless steel fabrication at Patalganga near Mumbai. Built with an initial investment of approximately INR 125 crores, the facility marks a strategic milestone in our journey towards offering integrated end-to-end solution for India's infrastructure sector. This reinforces our positioning beyond material supply into value-added fabrication while supporting sustainable and long-life infrastructure development. I'm pleased to announce that in addition to interim dividend for FY '26 of INR 1 per share, the Board has recommended a final dividend of INR 3 per share with a face value of INR 2 each subject to approval of shareholders at the ensuing Annual General Meeting aggregating to a payout of nearly INR 330 crores in total for FY '26. The quarter witnessed energy-related constraints emerging amid geopolitical uncertainties affecting West Asia; a key sourcing region for industrial fuels such as propane, LPG and natural gas that are critical to stainless steel manufacturing. Despite this, Jindal Stainless remains committed to maintaining operational resilience and supply chain stability. The company continues to proactively monitor global development and adopt its strategies to ensure sustained growth and business continuity in the times ahead. India's stainless steel demand remains resilient supported by robust fundamentals. Stainless steel continues to have a bright future as India's inevitable materialistic rise continues to unravel. With that, I conclude my remarks and invite the moderator to begin the question-and-answer session. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Parthiv Jhonsa from Anand Rathi.

Congratulations on good numbers despite gas disruption. So my first question is pertaining to the guidance. I believe sir just gave a guidance of 2029. Is it possible to give some volume growth guidance as well as EBITDA guidance for '27 because that's like very immediate? And considering the current global headwinds, if you can just give a guidance?

So in terms of volume growth for FY '27, we are expecting at least 8% to 10% growth -- 7% to 9% growth in volume this year. And for EBITDA per tonne looking at the kind of uncertainty there is, till H1 of this year we are giving a guidance of INR 18,000 to INR 20,000 EBITDA per tonne. And depending on the situation, maybe after 6 months we might revise this figure also.

Okay. So you are actually sticking to that INR 18,000, INR 20,000 range despite the overhang from the Middle Eastern crisis.

Correct. Correct. We're still confident of delivering INR 18,000 to INR 20,000 and give at least 7% to 9% volume growth in the entire year.

Sir, just to take this particular question forward, I believe there would be some volume disruption due to this entire crisis in the month of March, right? What would be the volume disruption? And what is the quantum of gas you have started receiving or the impact is there especially for the first quarter?

So in terms of at least because availability has picked up at a higher cost so we don't see availability as a challenge in the month of May, but cost has significantly gone up.

And what would be the impact, sir, from this 1 particular cost like the cost increase on the EBITDA level?

So again it's the same thing. We still stick to our blended guidance. Despite this cost going up, we're still confident of delivering INR 18,000 to INR 20,000.

And sir, quick question, just if you can give a breakup of the 200, 300, 400 series.

So for Q4 FY '26, 200 series was around 38%, 300 series was around 43% and 400 series is around 19%.

The next question is from the line of Alok Deora from Motilal Oswal.

Sir, just had couple of questions. So first is on the export side. So export proportion has come down and it's lower than what we used to do in a normal state basis. So just wanted to understand what's happening there and where can we see some normalization? And if you can guide some export -- how much would be exports in FY '27?

So export as we can see that for the year FY '26, it is having a share of 8% of our total sales, which in FY '25, it was 9%. So 1% lower, but on the expanded base. Now export market has different time having different challenges, we can say uncertainty. But as a company, we are able to still sail through and maintain our share. We still want to -- we are still able to manage with our important market of Americas, both North and South America. We are trying to develop newer markets or trying to increase our footprint into the newer market. And right now yes, due to again this war the disruption happened, but still we are continuously working. Even with the CBAM coming and creating disruptions with whatever we have done and our relationship with the customers there, we are still able to manage a certain level of volume. And with all these efforts, we believe even with our increased guidance of 7% to 9% of volume increased guidance what we have given, still we should be able to manage a share of 8% to 10% of exports in that increased volume.

Got it, sir. And sir, on the EBITDA per tonne, I mean INR 18,000 to INR 20,000 range which we have given for the 1H and we are more than nearly 20 -- we are comfortably above INR 20,000 in the current run rate basis. So is it that kind of pressure which we are seeing in the cost in the first quarter that we are scaling down on the EBITDA guidance for 1H?

It's basically the uncertainty. See, like I said, the cost has gone up and everything we are not able to pass on to our customers because our competitors, importers -- I mean the people who import material, those companies in those countries, the cost has not gone up. So definitely because of this, we feel that INR 18,000 to INR 20,000 is possible for H1.

And then we definitely review the whole thing because this cost increase has been very sharp and sudden. And it is not only in fuel, even in the utilities like ammonia and acid, all these consumables were also impacted.

We'll take the next question from the line of Amit Dixit from Goldman Sachs.

Congratulations for a good set of numbers this quarter. A couple of questions from my side. The first one is essentially the standard one on regulatory environment. While stainless steel demand outlook looks good, but there has been absolutely no, I would say, measure from the government for controlling imports. In fact QCO suspension, all these are quite detrimental for us and we are looking to expand further in Maharashtra. And also I just wanted to understand the thought process, your thought process in particular given that we are in a dichotomous situation where we are expanding, but government is not coming with any support. So what gives us so much confidence to expand? That is my first question essentially.

So absolutely a very valid point and valid concern. This is true that this QCO, which was to ensure a certain quality level of product being produced and used within the country, suspension of that opens the gate for the import of substandard products as well and this definitely impacts the sentiment and creates a confusion among the stainless steel industry that what exactly they should be doing because there is a big portion of even MSMEs and small players who have spare capacities available with them. They were believing that with the improved capacity utilization, they were also planning to expand and create more capacity even this kind of sudden policy change even though it is for 6 months only definitely creates a bit of confusion. Now coming to we as a company, okay, we have these things -- definitely the sentiments and all these things definitely impact, but we also have our strength. We are working -- we have diverse portfolio of products we work into each. We serve each area of the stainless steel consumption. And beyond that, also we have been seeing that there is also a mild mind shift, I will say, in the user that earlier like there was -- we could see that earlier people used to make their consumption decision based on the L1 basis, lower cost. Now we see that life cycle cost is -- normally people are considering life cycle cost for making a decision while choosing a product. And there stainless steel gets an advantage and we could see many new applications where stainless steel is getting accepted and being used even in the infrastructure. And we believe that this trend should continue because people are interested in creating products when it comes to mobility, which are lightweight and more energy efficient; when it comes to infrastructure, which is long-lasting maintenance-free. So this kind of acceptance also gives us a confidence that going forward, stainless steel will grow even beyond the natural growth whatever it is having. And we as a company, we believe that we should be ready to serve these requirements in the future.

Absolutely, Amit, like Mr. Khulbe said, and dialog with the government is consistently on. So already like he said that we are approaching the government as an industry that the MSME sector, the producers who are willing to expand and increase their capacity, they will be negatively impacted. So QCO is protecting our borders from substandard material, was giving confidence to MSME to expand further. We as a company, as we always share, we are always at the higher end of the stainless steel value chain supply chain and we continue to be present there and grow that market share as well. And the other side apart from QCO, we are also working on antidumping. So they are appointing verifiers in Q1 this quarter and that antidumping investigation process should also continue.

Okay. That's great to know. The second one is essentially on defense. Now you have highlighted in the press release that there have been couple of -- we have been supplying to defense sector. Now typically, defense sector involves a long approval process and it's very heartening to know that you have crossed the bridge. Just wanted to ask because the defense prospects are quite bright in the country with lot of domestic platforms being built. So just wanted to understand that what are the other new products or new grades of steel we are developing, if possible to share what kind of platforms we would be engaging in? And also if you have in mind something of like -- I know it's currently very small, but let us say 5 years hence, what could be the portion of revenue from defense segment?

So Amit, defense being such a critical area, I would not like to on an open forum share what kind of products or applications we are working upon. But it's in a variety of areas from land systems to air systems to drones in every area to our -- always with our satellite launches we're all part of. And if I can say more focus is more towards aerospace, that's where we see good traction coming in and we see good volumes coming in. And defense, like I said already, land systems good work is happening. So because being very strategic and very critical, I would not like to share. But what I can say is this year also we will be showcasing some very interesting products made out of Jindal Stainless material.

Okay. So maybe I will discuss with you one-on-one on this.

One-on-one is better. It's a little critical and they also request us not to share.

Congratulations for a good performance and best of luck.

The next question is from the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec.

Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, I have a lot of questions. Sir, first is our balance sheet is in the best of shape. How should we look at incremental growth CapEx specifically Maharashtra? If you can also qualitatively help us understand how you are planning to start from downstream, then upstream, land acquisition. I think that's the first question. Second question -- sir, I'll just wait over here. I'll let you answer, then I'll come with the second question.

Yes. So absolutely like you said, exactly the first process is on land acquisition and a substantial portion has been acquired already, but we still expect most of this year to go in land acquisition. And then we will start like you mentioned, first, we would like to put up downstream capacity and subsequently very fast come up with upstreaming as well. But I would still -- still every day this is being worked upon and probably we need another few months to come out with a clear cut plan. But absolutely as of now, land acquisition is in full force in Maharashtra at the moment.

Great. And sir, what should be the CapEx number that one should bake in for '27 and '28 overall at the company level?

Not per se Maharashtra you're saying, you're saying overall now.

For FY '27, our CapEx guidance is around INR 2,800 crore. INR 2,600 crores for FY '27.

And sir, for '28?

We will come back to you with that one.

Sure. Sir, just moving to the second question. How should we look at the profitability of RKEF? I think it would be throwing amazing cash flows right now. Possible to give some color over here, its contribution at the EBITDA level. How should we read into it? That's the second question, first part. And the second question second part is 1.2 million tonne slab from Indonesia, basically how should we look at the contribution on the numerator and the denominator when we look at incremental EBITDA per tonne?

So RKEF business, that is the nickel business. Even in the past we have discussed that when we had made the investments, I mean just to recall that strategically it is more for the raw material security. But yes, from the return point of view, it's a bit volatile business. In the past, we had given a guidance that anything from $500 to $1,500 per tonne of nickel kind of EBITDA we can expect. But with the sharp increase of nickel in the last quarter, the actual EBITDA has come around $3,000 per tonne. But Ritesh, these things keep on changing very fast because Indonesian government also, they keep on adjusting the nickel ore prices also accordingly. There also formulas keeps on changing, but this is the current position on it, the current financial numbers are. Now so far as melt shop is concerned so we intend to bring the slabs over here and process in India. In a way, I mean it's like putting a melt shop there in place of over here, strategically placing ourself in order to be at a place where the nickel is. So that whatever EBITDA guidance we are providing, that will have the value chain including from the [indiscernible]. So taking that into account, also we've given the INR 18,000 to INR 20,000 for H1 guidance.

Sure. And Khulbe sir, just to get a clarification on the $3,000 per tonne number, I understand, please correct me if I'm wrong, 200 kt is 14% nickel content. So are we looking at 28 kt $3,000 into our stake of, say, 50% or is that the right to look at it.

Ritesh, it varies. I mean like it depends upon -- see, the ore quality also keeps on changing and accordingly, the nickel output also keeps on changing. But whatever the nickel production comes out, for the last quarter it was around $10,000 per tonne.

Sir, what I'm trying to appreciate is the underlying EBITDA per tonne if we had to strip out this nickel volatility. So that's what I was trying to -- if you could help understand that.

Angad Khurana will get back to you with this calculation.

Sure, sure. Just coming to the next question. Sir, you did indicate on incremental HRAP and CRAP capacities. Are we looking at some imbalance over, say, next 6 months till the HRAP facility comes up in Jajpur or if you could help us with the timeline on both by month for HRAP as well as CRAP just to appreciate the mass balance.

Yes, Ritesh. So one thing I appreciate your concern. But some of our equipment what we have invested in the past, they have the capability of doing both HRAP as well as CRAP. So that gives us the flexibility. And also depending upon requirement, our investments in Indonesia gives us a flexibility even to get the coils in case of slab. So that also the possibility remains with us. So we are confident of balancing our needs as the market demands.

Sure. And just last question I'll squeeze in. Sir, you indicated a lot of gases in your starting remarks, which potentially had some impact on the operations. How are we looking to mitigate this assuming the Middle East situation doesn't improve? Any mitigation measures that you would like to highlight that would be?

We already put our effort in asking, Mr. Ritesh.

So Ritesh, it is like this. I mean when this disruption happened post the -- as soon as the war started, at that moment our primary gaseous fuel in both our indicated steel plants at Jajpur and Visakhapatnam was propane and LPG. Whereas in our Chromeni, Mundra plant, natural pipe gas we use as a fuel. Then what we realized that on the LPG, the government straightaway put a ban because they wanted to keep it or they allocated those quantities for the public use not for the industrial use. But on the natural gas, there was a disruption. They reduced the quantity, but now it has stopped. And very quickly we found them increasing the availability of the natural gas. Looking at this, we realized that we need to diversify ourselves in our Jajpur plant. Already we have worked on using natural gas also and a portion of it in fact we have started using it, which we will gradually increase. We are working on it. Visakhapatnam plant also we are looking in the longer term what can be done. And even in Jajpur and other places, coal gasification plants and syngas are also. These are also the possibilities.

East India, we will look towards coal gasification and syngas, pipe natural gas wherever we can include and also to replace ammonia, we are going for green hydrogen. So already in Jajpur, 600 mm cube plant will be up and running in June, July and Hisar also at 90 will increase to 400 almost in the next few months. So that way in all fronts to ensure that this impact doesn't come, we're already working on it.

Even in our Gazabad plant, we are now working on that.

Pipe gas for Ghaziabad.

So in a way we have started taking actions on multiple fronts. So that in future we are not impacted by any disruption. At least our risk is mitigated.

The next question is from the line of Pinakin from HSBC.

Given the 1.2 million tonne Indonesian JV has now been commissioned, can you again walk us through how that facility will be utilized, whether you'll bring it to India or sell it from there and how the accounting will work? I mean should we assume that entire flow through into EBITDA and then a minority interest going out or a 50% attributable? Just trying to understand that.

So at this stage, our intent is to bring the slabs to India and then process them over here.

And from the accounting perspective, since it is a subsidiary so it will get line by line consolidated in our numbers. And as per the accounting standard, the minority share will be calculated and shown separately.

Understood. So does the FY '27 guidance of 8% to 10% and INR 18,000 to INR 20,000 EBITDA per tonne build into some volumes from this facility?

Yes. So our business plan is accordingly built. So the guidance of 7% to 9% on the volume and INR 18,000 to INR 20,000 on the EBITDA per tonne factors that.

My second question is on Indonesia, right? There has been a lot of noise and news about policy intervention from the government whether it is on nickel, whether it is on coal. So what is the company's view of the regulatory outlook or the framework over there? And what are -- are there any potential risks to the Indonesian operations from any change in policy?

No. So that is exactly why if you see our timing was absolutely on point because we already started hearing Indonesian government talking of restrictions, talking of duty, which is why at Stage 1, we went and invested in our RKEF. So that Indonesian government was talking about banning nickel ore export. So that way we invested in NPI. Now already government is talking about further valuation should happen in Indonesia, further restrictions that you yourself are saying could come, which is why we took that step and went and invested in a steel melt shop there also -- stainless steel melt shop there also. And now even Government of India is encouraging these kind of investments because they have realized that nickel is not available in the country. 70% to 75% of the world's nickel supply comes from Indonesia so it was absolutely logical step for a company of our size to go to Indonesia. And because we've taken these measures, we feel no restriction from Indian government or Indonesian government should come on Jindal Stainless.

The next question is from the line of Vikash Singh from ICICI Securities.

Sir, my first question is after all this renewable power things which we are doing, how should we look at our products acceptability in the European market, which is currently going through the CBAM process? Have we got any data or the -- like steel got EUR 75 kind of the CBAM cost. Have we got anything like that?

That is similar. I think the default value they're putting on all metal companies. So on steel, stainless steel at the moment is similar kind of value like you're saying. Apart from that, I think we all are waiting for verifiers to get appointed by European Union. So that is something that the step has to be taken at their end. We, as a company, are completely geared up. Already 85% plus on scrap, moving more and more to renewable energy, green hydrogen, working with our suppliers already to work on their supply chain to add more green products. So we are absolutely ready as a company. We have already gone and got scores of various agencies domestic and international. So we're actually waiting for European Union to give us some more information, show us more -- I would say show us more light of the way forward because we as a company have done pretty much everything or most things are in the pipeline at the moment.

Noted, sir. Sir, my second question pertains to our basically mix. If I'm not incorrect, previously we were supposed to get the Indonesian slab, get it rolled here and then sold in the market. However, considering your guidance, it doesn't seems like that either we are utilizing that facility fully or the domestic facility to the full extent. So just wanted to understand how should we think of?

See, the melt shop has just come online right now. So any melt shop does take time to stabilize and to give output. So that's why we are quite confident in our balancing I would say, Mr. Khulbe. And we have that combo line. So we are -- the way the market demands, we are quite flexible to change our product range also.

Noted. Sir, let me put it in another way. So if I should look at including the Indonesia capacity and the timelines between your Maharashtra facility may come up, shall we assume that for the next 3 to 4 years we would probably more like a 9% to 10% volume growth story before the Maharashtra comes in even though the international situation normalizes?

So we have already given the statement that by FY '29, we are targeting to be a player of around 3.5 million, which takes -- which answers practically all your question. Yes, 3.5 billion sales because all our CapEx whatever we have announced, they are aligned to that. And this is after taking care of all our investment declared in the past and recently what we have announced. And all that is going to take care of it.

The next question is from the line of Renjith Sivaram from Mahindra Manulife Mutual Fund.

Just wanted to understand like what are the cost pressures if you can just give us some color on what's our dependence, how much of LPG or natural gas are we dependent on and how much has the cost of these increased and is there any quantification to that?

So in terms of cost, like we mentioned, has gone up close to 2.5x to 3x of what we were paying. I'm not understanding the first part in terms of how much do we consume you are asking?

Yes, yes. So that we are able to quantify that? You have told that it [indiscernible].

No, Honestly, I don't have those figures with me right now. And that is something that possibly we would not like to share. That's why even with this cost increase, I'm giving you the EBITDA per tonne guidance of INR 18,000 to INR 20,000 factoring in this cost increase.

So we are able to pass on these prices. That's what you mean to say.

No, I'm not saying that also. Some cases we are, some cases we are not. And we have to look at our competitors in mind also. So leading to all these factors, like I said, sometimes we are, sometimes we are not and that's why the blended rate is something that we're quite confident of achieving. And there's so much uncertainty that you don't know what will happen.

The next question is from the line of Satyadeep Jain from AMBIT Capital.

Sir, some follow-up questions to some of the earlier questions have been asked. So the Indonesia SMS is now up and running. The Jajpur HRAP will come certain later in the year. So you do have the capability to maybe get some coils. Just trying to understand the scenarios you're looking at for FY '27. You're also looking at a possibility that you get some slab and give it on job work basis till the HRAP come. And is that part of the guidance you're looking at for FY '27?

So FY '27 guidance, volume guidance already we have provided which is 7% to 9% and that takes care of all these uncertainties. But already we made a statement that we have equipment which can do both HRAP as well as CRAP on one hand and also we are having the possibility of getting the calls from outside directly from Indonesia.

So basically you've given EBITDA per tonne guidance for 1H. But if we look at the entire year, this getting slab because you have the capability will not impact EBITDA per tonne on those volumes? Just trying to understand volumes.

So volume we have given EBITDA H1. Probably when Mr. Jindal was giving, he also stated that so much of uncertainty of the cost movements, this gas availability and movement, and that is why we said that why we are providing this volume guidance for the whole year and EBITDA guidance for H1, but then we'll be reviewing it at the H1 and then basis the situation, we can revise the price.

Okay. And the 3.5 million tonne you've guided to for FY '29, if we look beyond FY '29 also, do you need Maharashtra for further volume growth beyond '29 or with the existing capacity, how do we look at volume growth beyond '29?

Definitely after FY '29, Maharashtra is going to be our major focus, but that doesn't mean that if there is any delay at Maharashtra level and we will not be able to add further equipment in Hisar and Jajpur or even Mundra now. So we feel quite comfortable that we'll be able to maintain our market share in the future as well.

We'll keep on evaluating the situation and basis that.

There is potential to grow in other plants, but we would prefer that most of the growth after FY '29 comes towards Maharashtra, but we are open to all kind of options.

And lastly, what's the status of the blast furnace?

So that is not part of JSL so we don't really discuss that on this call.

The next question is from the line of Rajesh Majumdar from 360 ONE.

Sir, my question is 2 parts. Firstly for FY '26, what is the breakup between 200, 300 and 400 series?

So for FY '26: 200 series was around 37%, 300 series was 46% and 400 series was 18%.

Yes. So my second part is that if you look at the 400 series, which I think a couple of years ago you were talking about as a very fast-growing space and the infrastructure series and we were quite optimistic on that. If you look at it over the years, it has come down from 27% to 18%. Now while you highlight the infrastructure products, et cetera, in your presentation, is that a matter of concern that this 400 series is falling over the year?

Well, 400 series definitely we wanted to grow at the same time as the business evolves, as the market requirements and demand evolves, that also -- accordingly, we also have to change our product mix. So under the current products what we are dealing with, under the current market demand what we have and as you can see that 92% of our market share is from the domestic, yes, that is not allowing us to go very aggressively on the 400 series. But eventually we have to meet the requirements, but we'll keep on working.

And if you see already like small example, but already year average was 18, but already Q4, 400 series picked up from 19 to 20. So as a company, our focus is EBITDA maximization and we have to fulfill the requirements of the domestic market and customers. And then always development efforts are towards 400 series. Auto is picking up, infra will pick up also in the next few years.

And just to add, while in terms of percentage for FY '25, the 400 series was 17% and for FY '26, it is 18%. So while you see only 1%, but this increase is at a higher volume on the larger base. So that is also the situation.

So would it be safe to assume that we can assume a creeping increase in this percentage over a period of time? Is that the effort for the 400 series.

We have seen that in our performance also.

And that would be positive for EBITDA per ton, right?

Absolutely. Like I said, if it is not going to add value to our EBITDA per tonne, then we would not do it only.

Okay. My second question was you've talked about Jindal Defense and Aerospace separately this time in a commercial order. Now I was going to the website of this company and it has a lot of potential. What is the size of this company and are we looking at -- and do we have any plan down the line?

That it's not a different entity. It's part of JSL only. So it's not a company that we've created, which is given to create a more of a presence and a branding kind of play. So it's part of the whole entire JSL setup.

So it's not a separate company.

No.

The next question is from the line of Mehul Panjwani from 40 Cents.

Sir, what is the expected timeline and ramp-up curve and the cost advantages you have from the Indonesian plant?

See, Indonesian plant, it was purely to go for nickel resources and nickel bearing grades. That was the reason we went to Indonesia with all the restrictions we foresee coming. And now they are like the world leaders in nickel production.

Sir, I was actually trying to understand how will it impact our EBITDA per tonne margins over the next 12 months?

We've already guided. See, with everything encompassing our Indonesia investment, our domestic investments, expansion; all of that we're giving a guidance of INR 18,000 to INR 20,000 till H1 of this year. And then closer to H1 of this year, again we will come back with a fresh guidance if we see a big change happening. So Indonesia is factored in this EBITDA per tonne.

So basically, sir, because I'm new to tracking this company, what kind of EBITDA per tonne benefit we'll see in the next 6 months.

INR 18,000 to INR 20,000 EBITDA per tonne for the entire stainless steel business, INR 18,000 to INR 20,000 EBITDA per tonne is the guidance for the entire stainless steel business. I would maybe suggest you spend some time with the IR team to get up to speed with all the other things otherwise understanding will take little longer time.

The next question is from the line of Rakesh Roy from Boring AMC.

My first question is, sir, can you light on the Rathi performance for whole year and Q4 in term of revenue and EBITDA.

The Rathi for the whole year operated at around 80%, 85% capacity utilization. And in this plant as we had spoken in the past that we intend to produce more of stainless rebars, which for the last quarter was around 25% of the total volume. And this we are increasing gradually even as we are finding even within the various agencies, the policy level decisions as well as coming for making in the coastal area usage of rebars mandatory. And otherwise so far as the overall performance is concerned, Rathi is also a part of the total business EBITDA per tonne whatever we have given. All that is included into that. Subsidiaries, we have not been discussing separately.

Right. Just to know, sir, Rathi is now EBITDA positive for Q4 or for your whole year?

Yes, company is EBITDA positive.

Right, sir. Next question just to know, sir, due to the shortage of sulfur or rise in sulfur prices, any impact on our Indonesia business in terms of production or anything?

No. So in our business of nickel production, sulfur is not directly used.

The next question is from the line of Kirtan Mehta from Baroda BNP Paribas Mutual Fund.

I wanted to understand the model that we want to pursue after the Indonesian slab becomes operational. We have been sort of utilizing around 85% scrap and that gives us sort of the green advantage. At the same point of time, we are also now thinking about sort of bringing the slab into India and use them in our process. So what is the intended scrap utilization post Indonesia becomes fully operational?

So the idea of going to Indonesia was because globally around 70%, 75% of stainless steel even today is produced using NPA as -- nickel in the form of NPI. And of course 30% approximately is produced scrap as an input. We as a company now have both the possibilities because in India we have capacity to use the scrap as much as possible and now we have this possibility of bringing in slab from the Indonesia through NPI route. So we will be balancing the 2 and depending upon our customer requirement, accordingly we can use the product and produce the product.

So we may not necessarily bring the entire 1.2 million tonne slab into India. And in that case if you don't bring it to India, then what would be the alternate route of monetization and what kind of EBITDA we'll make on that? That will be on top of the INR 18,000 to INR 20,000, correct?

At this stage, our plan is to bring in. It has just started. So right now whatever our plan is to bring the quantities to India.

It's a follow-up on the same. I was just checking in terms of what kind of -- out of the 1.2 million tonne utilization, what kind of the throughput level that we are assuming for FY '27 for the Indonesia melt facility?

So now the ramp-up has started. We believe that gradually the ramp-up will take place and up to 70%, 80% of the capacity should ramp up in this financial year.

Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take that as the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Abhyuday Jindal for closing comments. Thank you and over to you, sir.

Thank you, everybody. In closing, I'm proud to share that we achieved a stable and resilient performance despite the challenges of a dynamic external environment. Resilient demand across key sectors coupled with our sharp focus on value-added products and unwavering customer focus drove our achievements this quarter. Despite uncertainties in global trade, we remain committed to our long-standing customer relationship across the globe. Our agile business model continues to differentiate us and help us deliver sustained growth in a volatile geopolitical environment. I hope that we've been able to answer all your questions satisfactorily. Should you need any further clarification or would like to know more about the company, please feel free to contact our Investor Relations team. Thank you once again for joining.

Thank you, everyone.

Thank you, members of the management. On behalf of AMBIT Capital, that concludes this conference. We thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.