Jindal Steel Limited (JINDALSTEL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Jindal Steel Q2 FY '27 Earnings Conference Call hosted by ICICI Securities Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vikash Singh. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Anam. A warm welcome to everybody. Good evening. We would like to thank the management to give us the opportunity to host them. Without taking any much time, I'll hand over to Vishal for the management introduction and opening the call. Over to you, Vishal.

Thank you very much, Vikash. Ladies and gentlemen, a very good afternoon. Thank you very much for joining us to discuss the Q2 FY '27 earnings release of Jindal Steel. Joining us on today's call are members of our senior management team, Mr. V.R. Sharma, Managing Director; Mr. Rajiv Kumar, Chief Operating Officer; Mr. Sandeep Modi, CFO; Mr. Damodar Mittal, Whole Time Director; Mr. Debojyoti Roy, Executive Director, Raigarh; and Ms. Roopali Mehra, Head of Sales and Marketing. I will now hand over the floor to Mr. V.R. Sharma for his opening remarks. Over to you, sir.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, my friends, the well wishers of our company, the media persons. I'm delighted to invite you on today's interaction. This is not only an investors meet or investors discussion. This is a 2-way exchange. We will be happy to take your questions after this particular session. The company has done wonderfully well in last quarter. We have done a record sales and in the history of this company in many quarters in the last so many years. That is INR 19,448 crores. So I think we are now on a path to reach INR 200 crore per year of sales. This is what our aim is. With INR 19,448, if we multiply by 4 quarters, that should be INR 80,000. But our aim is to reach [ 2 1 lakh ] crore as early as possible. The steel sales is up by 27%. EBITDA is up by 34%. But despite of very bad weather in Orissa, a lot of rains were there. The iron ore mines were full of water. We could manage a fair liquid production. And we are now going to ramp up further. Our aim is to -- raise to about 11 million tonne production this financial year is what we targeted earlier. We have reached to a level of about [ 4.79 ] million in H1. And the next, that is H2, we are aiming for 6 million tonnes. So there's a net steel, and the gross steel may be about 11 million. The company is doing very well in terms of availability of the raw materials, whether it is coking coal or it is iron ore or availability of pellets through our internal resources or other consumables. We have seen in last 3 months' time, we're in topsy-turvy situation there. We found that there was a shortage of natural gas in the country and there was a shortage of propane. And this was difficult time, basically because of this Hormuz issue or the Iran and U.S. war. So unfortunately, we are having the coal gasification plant. And we switched over, coal gas that is syngas for many of the reheating furnaces, [ garaging ] lines, color coating lines. And there was no impact on our productivity, production and profitability. And still, we are continuing. We are not using propane or natural gas. We are using our coal gas, that is called syngas, or you can say the coal -- the gas through coal gasification route. Our DRI plant has also done well, and this is based on coal gas. That is, again, we call it syngas. We have 2 blast furnaces in Angul and 2 blast furnaces in Raigarh. So all 4 blast furnaces, we are doing well now. The new blast furnace, which we installed last year, that has raised to a level of about 10,000 tonnes per day. That is in Angul. Hopefully, we will ramp it up in this particular month, say, today is 23rd. So I think in 7 days' time, we should reach about 10,500 tonnes per day. And in November, we are aiming for 11,000 and then December, 12,000 tonnes per day. Availability of iron ore from OMC and NMDC is seamless. There is no problem. The problems related to land slide from an NDC route to Angul route, those are over now. Railway is working. And the water from mines is already receded. So now the operations at OMC, all lead mines, they are working very well. So our own mine, Kasia mines, that also, that is being ramped up earlier, and we are sourcing material from our own mines also. We have 2 pellet plants, 1 in -- 2 pellet plants in Barbil, both are running well. And the pellet plant in Angul is also running well. So by and large, I would say that the company is in a very, very solid state, and we'll be making a record production in the Q3, which we'll be ending on December 2026. Q4, we are further looking very positive, and we feel that we'll be surpassing the records what we are going to make in Q3. I think Q4 will be much better. As far as the market is concerned, the market is supporting very well. Though the input costs have gone up, but we could recover the entire input costs, and we could make some positive impact in NSR while we compare on the input costs. So the steel scenario is very good. I think it is now 10% Y-o-Y basis, there is a growth. Though our production has gone up by 22%, the industry overall growth is about 10%. So we are aiming that we'll continue making such performance in the other 2 quarters also, that is Q3 and Q4. The exports are also picking up. We are doing about 100,000 tonnes of export every month, mainly [indiscernible] [ coils ] and plates. And some quantity in rails and the structures. We are hopeful the Honorable Finance Minister -- the Commerce Minister, Mr. Piyush Goyal, he is already in Germany. And I think he is negotiating with the EU on the on the basis of the mother of all deal, what we signed is the FDA. So I'm sure he is taking up with the government of the EU parliament, how to give us the most favored steel suppliers status. So hopefully, this will be done. Maybe I'm very sure. And the government is trying it's best to utilize the FDAs in the interest of Indian engineering industry, Indian steel industry, Indian aluminum industry and also for Indian garments and other industries. So we are seeing a very positive impact from U.K. And at the moment, the quota system by EU is less for India, which we are very much hopeful, and government of India is trying its best. Then there'll be another door opening to sell more and more steel to Europe. There's a steel deficit of about 28 million tonnes in Europe. And I think India stands the first chance to supply the right and good quality of steel to Europe. CBAM is an issue today. But overnight, the CBAM cannot be diluted. I think EU parliament and government of India will find some solution how to meet all the demand of the local people there in Europe and they can enjoy the...

Ladies and gentlemen, the line for the management seems to have disconnected. Please hold while we reconnect. Ladies and gentlemen, the management line has been reconnected. Over to you, sir.

So sorry, there was a disconnection. And now I think I'm audible to everybody. So coming back on the investment steel scenario, the outlook is very positive. The demand in the country is very good. I'm also pleased to inform you that 192-kilometer long slurry pipeline is already commissioned. The commercial supplies to plant from Barbil to Angul will be starting, I think, in next 2, 3 days' time. All trials are done. The first lot -- first batch of iron slurry has been dispersed and well received. So tomorrow, again, we are going to restart. And hereafter, this will be continuous operation without any stoppage. We are now aiming to increase our overall product mix towards flat products. Though today also, we are at a level of about 60-40. Now we'll be reaching somewhere about 65 35, 65% flat products, including plates, and 35% will be long [ goods ]. So this is what we are aiming for. Now I'll request my other colleagues. They will speak with you, and they will give the numbers, what we already declared. Many of you must have seen that the results are declared and already displayed to the media. Thank you very much.

Good afternoon, sir. Myself, Sandeep. Let me take you through Jindal Steel's consolidated financial performance for this Q2 FY '27. We have delivered our highest ever quarterly gross revenue of INR 19,448 crores, up [ 14 percent 5 4 percent ] Y-o-Y, while net revenue increased 43% Y-o-Y to record INR 16,704 crores. This was driven by the record Q2 sales volume, and Mr. Sharma said, of [ 2.38 ] million tonnes and higher average selling prices, supported by a higher share of plants and the lower proportion of TMT within the log products. Domestic sales accounted for approximately 92% of total volume. Our adjusted EBITDA stood at INR 2,504 crores, up 34% year-on-year, while adjusted EBITDA per tonne increased 5% Y-o-Y to INR 10,529 per tonne. The sequential moderation in EBITDA was primarily due to higher raw material and operating costs, notwithstanding the positive impact of higher volume and improved sales mix. Coming to the cost part. Coking coal was a key cost impact, and it was within the guidance what we have given in the last call for $12 to $15 per tonne. Power and fuel as well as freight expenses, especially ocean trade, also increased sequentially. This impact was partly offset by better ASP. Our consolidated profit after tax was INR 771 crores compared with INR 844 crores in the preceding quarter. Our balance sheet strengthened during the quarter. Our consolidated net debt declined by INR 1,141 crores from INR 15,927 crores at the end of June to INR 14,786 crores as of September end. Net debt-to-EBITDA ratio improved from 1.71 to 1.51. Cash and cash equivalent stood at INR 7,237 crores, providing substantial liquidity as we execute our growth program. CapEx during Q2 FY '27 was INR 1,228 crores, and in the whole H1 was INR 3,187 crores. We remain continue to discipline capital allocation, with investment directed towards our steel and supporting infrastructure businesses and a focus on return as the newly commissioned facilities ramp up. Our stated framework, and we said annual growth CapEx of approximately INR 7,500 crores to INR 10,000 crores, primarily funded through internal accruals, while seeking to maintain net debt to EBITDA below 1.5x through the cycle. For the second half, our priorities are clear, stabilize and ramp up the expanded facilities, improve product mix, cost competitiveness, working capital management and maintain balance sheet discipline. With that, we can open the floor for questions. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Akhilesh from Emkay Global.

So my first question is on the production. So we have achieved already 4.8 million tonnes in the first half, and now our run rate becomes quite steep of requiring 3 million tonnes for the second half per quarter, right? So how confident are we kind of achieving this guidance? And also now since our flat mix has also increased during this quarter, do we see it maintaining in the coming quarters and achieve 70-30 mix in FY '28?

So we are quite confident that we'll be in a position to achieve this 3 million tonnes per quarter. So that means 1 million tonne per month. To be very precise, the production planning gain is [ 0.96 3,900 60,000 ] tonnes per month. As far as the mix is concerned, yes, you're right. We are aiming for 65-35. 65 will be the flat products, which includes plates also, and 35 will be long products. The region being -- for this particular shift from, say, 50-50 ratio or 55-45 to 60-40 or maybe 65-35 is that there is a better value addition, especially in plates. So plates are doing extremely well. And today, we are undisputed leader in plates -- selling plates to the country. We produce more than 220,000 tonnes plates per month in both locations. And thanks to government of India's spending on defense and also on the merchant vessels and merchant ship building. So this is a good sign. The market for wind mills is still very hot in India and also outside India. So we'll continue making more and more plates and supported by more and more hot-rolled pads. So the auto coils also, we are aiming only for the value-added hot-rolled coils. We are not manufacturing vanilla products and [ hosted mill ]. And either these are high carbon steel or medium carbon steel or something which is a niche markets, but very highly remunerated products that we are manufacturing. So maybe not 70-30, but yes, we'll try to maintain 65-35, including plates.

Got it. Got it. Sir, my second question is now on this slurry pipeline. So now since it has been commissioned, do we see any benefit of to accruing the remaining of FY '27 as well? Or the benefit will start to come in from FY '28 onwards only? And also, will there be any additional costs associated with the ramp-up, which could come as a surprise?

No, there's no additional cost because this is a pumping station basically -- grinding and pumping station. So all the grinding machines are in place. The pumping stations in place. The water arrangement, et cetera, everything is in place. We are getting water from government. There's no problem. And this water, when we make slurry, we maintain a slurry and a particular dentistry that is specific [indiscernible], 1.8 to 2 level. And the water we recover at Angul. So in a way, the water consumption in Angul, so that is reduced because this water, when it goes there in Angul, we filter it and we recycle it. We don't throw water outside because we have a 0 liquid discharge policy. Then your next question is the cost impact. Yes, the -- we'll benefit out of it because the iron ore, which is being transported through trucks mainly, that will now be shifted to through slurry pipeline. So today, we are receiving more than 700 trucks per day full of iron ore to come from Barbil, [ Keonjhar ] area, and they come to Angul. So all these 700 trucks, at least 500 trucks will be eliminated here now. Only 200 trucks will come, which are geographically in the area whether we take the iron ore to Barbil or we take the iron ore to Angul. So the cost will be the same. So it is better to bring that iron ore to Angul in place of taking the iron ore to or Barbil. So Barbil grinding station is in place and Barbil pumping now is in place now. We have to run it on a daily basis, hopefully, from day after tomorrow. This will continue nonstop till -- in final time. There's no problem. And INR 700 per tonne, we'll be saving on freight. And no additional expenses. So no surprise.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Amit Dixit from Goldman Sachs.

Congratulations for good performance. So just wanted to get the update on captive coal mining. What was -- how much coal was mined this quarter? And what is the opening plan for the other 2 mines?

Yes. So together in Raigarh and Angul, we have total coal mining capacity of about -- total capacity is about 15 million tonnes. And [indiscernible] is about 4 million, approximate number I can give you. And the other mines are in Utkal that is near to the plant in Angul. So today, we are meeting out our 50%, 55% of the requirement from our own mines and the captive mines. There was some delay here, or I can say there was some stoppage because of very heavy rains. I think from 10th of October onwards, everything is going very well. So we are aiming that we'll be reaching to a level of about 65% to 70% of the total requirement. We'll be meeting the goal from our coal mines. And it also depends upon the cost. We are sometimes getting very good deals from Coal India and so [indiscernible] coal field, and we try to avail that deal also. And sometimes, we need vast coal for our core gasification plant, if our [ washery ] is not doing well or if we need more wash coal. So that also, we buy from outside. But by and large, things going very well. There is no problem with the meeting the out of our entire requirement in the next year, our own coal mines. And it also depends upon the costing. The cost is, of course, advantages are there to buy something from outside that we'll be planning and we'll be buying from outside.

The next question is from the line of Parthiv Jhonsa from Anand Rathi.

Just continuing to the previous participant's question on capital mining. What is the current iron ore across especially the Roida and, say, Kasia. What is the current quantum what we are getting?

Kasia, I'll tell you first, Kasia, we are taking out 22,000 tonnes per day today, and we are going to make it to level of 30,000 tonnes per day. Kasia is very rich in minerals in terms of [indiscernible] content. So we use this as a sweetener. Roida, at the moment, is not working because one right of way we have to obtain from forest department. And this will take a couple of months' time because there was no road available from mines to main highway. So we have 2 options, either to make a conveyor -- fly over conveyor or a road. So then finally, the government has taken us our request that yes, you can make a road. But this needs tree transplantation, planting the trees and then equivalent amount of land, whatever we are going to utilize, that land we had to take for reforestation. So this will be done soon. As soon means, say, by January, we'll be in a position to do it. And then Roida will be in operation fully. It's was in operation, but this was suspended because the right of way was not available. And these are the formal things with the government of India we are working. I'm sure by December end or January, we will be in a position to obtain it. And the rest of the iron ore requirement, we are meeting out to OMC and NMDC. OMC, we have 13.5 million tonnes of long-term agreement. And they are supporting us. Though there were problems in the last months, especially the last 2 months and during the monsoon season because most of their mines were full of water. And NMDC, there was a stoppage because of land slide on a railway track. This took about 27 days to clear and to re the railway line. So now it is working well. So no problem. So this quarter, the another 2 months will be superbly good. So no shortage. I hope I answered. Kasia 40,000 tonnes today per day, and we are going to ramp it up to 30,000. If there is a shortage, we can do it 50,000 tonnes per day also. But we are meeting the OMC and NMDC. They are supporting us. We are meeting out our requirement.

That was actually quite elaborate, sir. Sir, my second question is pertaining to Angul. Now we believe that we draw water from Brahmani River as per your EC documents, right? And the current sanction what we have is about 59.1 billion liters on an annualized basis. You have applied for about 140 plus, but today, it is at 59.1. Now considering Brahmani's water reserve level is quite short, it's about 12.5% below its normative level. And now when you have given that Q3 and Q4, you'll be doing like a record volume. Wouldn't this water be a challenge because you require water across each and every step, right? Even if you consider whatever what you used last year, just multiply that, it's about 11% of recycling what you have done. Even after considering and putting everything there, would be some sensitivity to the volumes in my understanding.

Thank you for the concern and thanks, you have done a very good study. So first of all, I'll tell you, we do not need 59 mld now. We are using only 31, which is sufficient. And in next year, we'll be using at least 15% less. Why? Because we are pumping water from Barbil. So this water will be surplus. So in a way, we are helping other people to utilize more and more water from the same dam, where from we are connected at. So there is no issue. So water is not in short supply because of these 2 reasons. And [ God ] has been very kind. We had very good rains. All of the dams in the vicinity, they are full. There is no problems. And I'm sure, the government is taking care of it. So no shortage of water.

The next question is from the line of Pinakin from HSBC.

So my first question is on costs. Now there are more -- a lot of moving parts in terms of coking coal, multiple projects coming on stream in the second half. So at this point of time, what is the cost guidance for the second half, if you can break it up into coking coal and benefits from the multiple growth projects that are coming on stream?

Thank you very much. Cost is always a concern area of concern. And each management or manufacturing division, they always want to reduce the cost. So first of all, the point here is the coking coal, I will tell you. Yes, the coking coal, the last quarter, we had an impact, about $12 to $14. And now for the last couple of days, the coking coal is very stable. We are not expecting too much of variation. Even if it comes, maybe some $10, $15 that you can [indiscernible], no issue. Availability is not a [indiscernible] problem. Then we are also having our coal mines in -- coking coal mines in Mozambique. So the Mozambique mine of ours is doing very well, and we are getting 2 vessels every month without fail. So that is supporting us. The another opening, which I feel is likely to come, that is [ Russia ]. So hopefully, now the time has come as this war will stop and Black Sea operations will be regular. The moment the Black Sea operations will be regular, then I think Indian steel industry will not have a shortage of coal. So already Indian steel industry has reduced its exposure on Australia from 75% to 78% to about only 50% today. And the Indian industry has shifted towards Mozambique, South Africa, Colombia, Venezuela and also America and Canada. And now the new coal power country is [ Russia ]. And they are not new, but new after 4.5 years or 5 years. So at the moment this war stops, the war ends, then everybody will be comfortable. And I'm sure, if this is done in next 1 or 2 months' time and they signed a treaty protocol that they will not attack on the vessels, then I think coal prices -- coking coal prices may come down in December and January. So I hope I answered your question.

And sir, what are the benefits from the various...

I'm sorry to interrupt you, sir. I'm sorry to interrupt you, sir. If you have follow-up questions, please rejoin the queue.

Okay, madam, let him complete this one.

Okay. Sure, sir.

What are the benefits that if you can quantify from the various growth projects that the company is bringing on stream like the slurry pipeline and ramp-up of the other mines?

You see, as I told you, the slurry pipeline is going to give us INR 700 per tonne on [ 20,000 ] tonnes per day. So this is a direct impact. So this would be a net profit, and this will definitely recover our cost. So the -- will be very fast. This is a big benefit. And over and above this particular financial benefit, the other benefit is this is public because all these 700 trucks coming to plant every day. So in pipeline, there are 2,000 trucks. The 700 trucks in our company, 700 to 1,000 trucks, they are on the road, another 700 or 600 trucks are for loading. So the 2,000 trucks will be off the road. So we actually brand and the fuel consumption, the digital consumption, the pollution, air pollution then horn pollution, because in India everybody blows horn. So all -- the sound pollution, you can say. That will be reduced in the social costs. Government of India is also supporting these particular projects for these regions. Now the other area is, look, most of the railway racks today, as per the directors over as per the requirement of power plants, and they are engaged in transporting coal from coal bands to a different part of the country. So that the power availability in the country is stable, and there is no increase in the tariff -- power tariff. Because the whole world today is struggling on power tariffs, like, for example, the electricity cost in Europe today for a domestic user -- household user or industrial user, that is ranging from India INR 12 to INR 15 or sometimes INR 18 per kilowatt hour per unit. Whereas if government of India has maintained the overall price level for the domestic users or the commercial institutions to a level of less than INR 8 and maximum maybe INR 10. And there is a per cap also. So I think it's a good cost. So more and more coal going to power plants means more and more industrial growth and more and more, I would say, helpful to obtain a better life. So we are a very small part of that, that we are trying to reduce the diesel consumption, and we are also trying to make railway racks payer so that government can utilize these railway racks to -- basically to transport coal to different destinations in the country. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Amit Murarka from Axis Capital.

So firstly, on the cost inflation, I think in the last quarter, you had spelled out about INR 2,000 a tonne cost inflation due to West Asia conflict. So -- sorry, I think the INR 1,200, INR 1,300 per tonne. So could you kind of give that -- give the same number for Q2?

So Sandeep here. For the coking coal prices, we expect an increase of $20 to $25 per tonne.

No, no.

I think the answer...

Yes, yes, please. Please ask your question again.

No. So in the previous Q1 call, you had mentioned that due to the West Asia conflict, there was a cost inflation of $12 to $13 a tonne, which is 1,200 a tonne. So could you give a number for this quarter?

Mr. Sandeep is replying to you.

So I will give you the last quarter was, we say, $12. This quarter, we are saying $20 per tonne, which will be -- we expect an impact on account of the business.

Coal cost -- [ coking ] coal.

Sure. And this is beyond the coking coal inflation, right? Just to be sure.

No, the coking coal, I say, $20 to $25. And for the West Asia conflict, which I think you are reflecting more in the diesel and other parts, that was, I think, we did not give [ $12 and $13 ], we said around $4 to $5, and that [indiscernible] of around $4 to $5 per tonne.

Yes. So basically, what Sandeep is telling, from West Asia, what we are bringing, we are bringing the fuel only, the tool or maybe LPG or propane, okay? That impact was a little less for us because we continue working through coal gasification. Yes, the coal -- coking coal, there is no control on that. So that was a loss, basically, our cost -- input cost had increased. Now it all depends upon the geopolitical situation. If we feel that United states, they ease out the supply of crude from Iran and also from Russia, then I think the oil prices may come down. If oil prices come down, then industry as a whole will get benefit. But just for the factor of safety, we are considering that maybe, if this prolongs, and there's no decision taken by superpowers, the 2 superpowers, I would say, to end this war and to relax the sanctions on Iran and/or on Russia, then there may be an impact of another $20 in times to come. But let us see because overnight situation changes. At the moment, we know that the war is going to end, then I think the availability of oil and the gas will increase or will age out.

And the coking coal, $20, is for Q3, the jump that you're talking about or that generally that relates to that?

Yes, Q3, Q3.

Okay, sure. And the 700 per tonne from the slurry pipeline, by when will it get fully realized?

From tomorrow. Because tomorrow, we are going to start the commercial production.

So as you mean to the full volume will start flowing immediately?

It is right. Only 20,000 tonnes per day we'll bring. So on 20,000, INR 700 we'll be selling further.

The next question is from the line of Darshan Mehta from Dolat Capital.

Sir, just wanted to understand whether we would have seen any cost benefit this quarter because of moving from propane to coal gasifier? Coal? Hello?

Yes, yes. Coal -- you are right. I'll tell you. Right question. Have you completed the question or yet to be?

Yes, I have other questions, but you can give answer on this question.

Yes, yes, yes. You see, the propane prices have gone up to a level of about INR 100 per kilo. And equivalent, when we make coal gas that is called syngas, then equivalent, we were getting in INR 30 a kilo. So that advantage was INR 70. And that is what the reheating furnace is, especially for the downstream industry, we have the cold rolling mills, galvanizing lines, color coating lines. So these lines, they've got benefit out of it.

Okay, okay. And in terms of steel sales, I mean, on part-time basis, can you quantify this? Will it be possible for you?

No, no, no. It will be very difficult because the balance sheet is consolidated. It is a balance sheet. Yes. So very difficult. But I told you that whatever consumption we are doing, so we are getting an advantage of INR 70 per kilo.

Okay. But at some point, you will again move to propane. Let's say, if things normalize, you would again like to move to propane being a cleaner fuel. Is the understanding correct or?

No, we will not move to now propane. We have taken the test of a better [ chocolate ], so we'll not leave it. Because we have done all those changes. It is not one-to-one replacement that we switch on, switch off. We have done all those changes in our burner system, automation system so that we can accommodate the coal gas or you can say syngas. So now again, going back -- again going back on propane, then it will take shutdown and then we have to incur costs and then why to use the heavy fuels, heavy-priced fuel. And all these fossil fuels like propane, LGP, these will always be -- or natural gas always being imported in the country. I think the country's domestic users, they need it more than what we needed today.

The next question is from the line of Rajesh Majumdar from 360 ONE Capital.

I just wanted to know a couple of things. One is what is the proportion of TMT bars you've sold in the quarter? What is the drop in the realization thereof and what is the impact on the pricing chain in the last 1 month in TMT bars? That was the first question.

Yes. So first question, let me reply. So historically, we were doing about 20% of our total production. We were selling through TMT route. So TMT was not doing very good in last quarter. So we increased the volume of hot rolled coil and reduced the volume of TMT. So TMT now, we are selling only to the major projects. And we are not selling for the retail market in that proportion that we used to do it. So I would say that now we are making only 120,000 tonnes per month of TMT. And earlier, we were making 220,000 tonnes. So 100,000 tonnes TMT, whatever the steel was going to be utilized for TMT, that we are now utilizing flat products that is for plates as well as for hot rolled coils. So what was your next question, sorry?

Yes. Sir, my second question was, sir, since your ASP has generally been unchanged largely due to the higher share of flats, the last month increase in realizations we have seen in the -- mostly in the rebar side, will not impact significantly in the coming quarter? Or would you -- do you feel that this quarter, realizations can improve a little bit sequentially, yes.