JM Financial Limited (523405) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Dear shareholders. Good evening, and a very warm welcome to the 39th Annual General Meeting of JM Financial Limited, held through video conferencing and other audio visual facility. [Operator Instructions] Please note that as per the requirements, the proceedings of the Annual General Meeting will be recorded and available on the website of the company. I now request Mr. Nimesh Kampani, Chairman of JM Financial Limited to take over the proceedings. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Good afternoon, shareholders. I, Nimesh Kampani, the Chairman of your company, extend a very warm welcome to all of you at the 39th Annual General Meeting of the company. Hope you are all well and you are very safe. I wish to inform you that this Annual General Meeting is being held through video conferencing and other audiovisual means in accordance with the general circular issued by the Ministry of Corporate Affairs and in accordance with the applicable provisions of the Companies Act 2013. And the circular issued by the Securities and Exchange Board of India. I would now like to introduce my fellow Board members who have joined the AGM, along with me from the registered office of the company in Mumbai. Mr. Vishal Kampani, Non-Executive Vice Chairman; Mr. Pradip Kanakia, Independent Director and the Chairman of the Audit Committee; Mr. P.S. Jayakumar, Independent Director and the Chairman of the Nomination and Remuneration Committee; Ms. Roshini Bakshi, Independent Director; Mr. Sumit Bose, Independent Director; Mr. Adi Patel, Managing Director. Further, Ms. Jagi Mangat Panda, Independent Director and the Chairperson of Stakeholder Relationship Committee has joined this AGM from Bhubaneshwar. Mr. Navroz Udwadia, an Independent Director of the company, could not attend the AGM due to his other prior commitments. We also have the key managerial person, namely, Mr. Nishit Desai -- Mr. Nishit Shah, the Chief Financial Officer; and Mr. Hemant Pandya, the company's Secretary, attending the meeting from the registered office. The representative of Statutory Auditor, Secretarial Auditor, and Scrutinizer are also attending this meeting through video conferencing. As the required quorum for the meeting is present, I declare the meeting in order. The company has received 5 authorized representations in respect of 36,13,32,008 shares, representing 37.81% of the paid-up share capital of the company. The statutory register represent -- the statutory register, including the register of directors, the KMPs and their shareholding and the documents mentioned in the AGM notice, et cetera, are available during the AGM for online inspection by the members. The annual report for the financial year '23, '24 inter-alia, containing the notice of the 39th Annual General Meeting was sent electronically by e-mail to the members in compliance with the MCA and SEBI circular. With the consent of the members attending the AGM through video conferencing, the notice convening the meeting is taken as read. The auditor's report, an annexure there to. Kindly note that the statutory auditors report on stand-alone and consolidated financial statement for the financial year ended March 31, 2024, and the secretarial audit report do not contain any qualifications, observations, adverse comments, reservation or remark. And thus, with the permission of the members, the shared documents can be taken as read. Remote e-voting facility. The members are requested to note that there will be no voting by show of hands. In compliance with the applicable provisions of the act, the company had provided to its members the facility to exercise their vote, right to vote on all the business items to be transacted at this Annual General Meeting through remote e-voting between August 2, 2024, and August 5, 2024, in proportion of their shareholding as on the cutoff date being July 30, 2024. This Jayshree S. Joshi, proprietor of Jayshree Dagli & Associates, Company Secretaries, Mumbai, has been appointed as the scrutinizer to scrutinize the e-voting process in a fair and transparent manner. Announcement that facility for the e-voting is also made available during the AGM. The facility of e-voting is also made available during AGM and will continue to remain open until 15 minutes after the closure of the meeting. The members attending the AGM through video conferencing shall be able to exercise their right to vote through e-voting facility provided they have not voted through remote e-voting earlier. I now announce that the e-voting facility has commenced and members who are not voted can exercise voting. Dear member, on my behalf and on behalf of my fellow colleagues on the Board of the company, I take you all -- I thank you all for joining this meeting today. We achieved a special milestone to the financial year 2023, '24 as JM Financial Group marked its 50 years of operations. We express our heartfelt gratitude to you for your enduring commitment towards the company. Your continued support and trust over the years has been instrumental in our journey. As you would have observed from the year's annual report, the theme of the report is solid, stable, sustainable. At JM Financial, our foundation is built on the principles of stability, performance and trust. With the legacy spanning over the 5 decades, we have consistently delivered exceptional results and provided expertise to gain trust of our clients. Our solid track record is a testament of our commitment to excellence and our ability, to navigate the complex financial landscape. Our journey of excellence rest on a foundation of strong corporate governance, deep-rooted values and visionary leadership. As we look to the future, our deep-rooted principle continue to guide us. We understand that the financial world is rapidly evolving, bringing new opportunities and challenges. Our stability reflects our adaptability and resilience. We are committed to fostering sustainable growth that benefits not only our clients, but also the communities we serve and the environment we inhibit. By integrating sustainable practices into our operations, the investment -- and investment strategies, we ensure our growth is responsible and inclusive. At JM Financial being a solid, stable and sustainable is more than just a theme, it is the essence of who we are and how we operate. I would now like to mention in brief the global and domestic macroeconomic scenario, uncertainties pertaining to the geopolitical issues between Israel and Gaza, to supply side disruption in the Red Sea were amongst the major events that presented innumerous challenges, marked by volatility and uncertainty. India, however, displayed remarkable resilience, thanks to timely policy intervention by the Reserve Bank of India and the government's proactive fiscal measures and were [ pivotal ] in maintaining economic stability. Our equity market thrived driven by macroeconomic stability and robust corporate earnings momentum, underscoring the structural strength of India's economy. Structural reforms and digital advancement enhance the efficiency of the financial ecosystem, positioning India as a key player in the global market. Amidst the backdrop of our business continued to demonstrate robust performance while maintaining stringent focus on governance and improving system and processes through technology intervention. I'm pleased to state that we reported the highest ever annual operating revenue in the financial year '23, '24, our capital market business flourished with the integrated investment bank segment delivering a return on equity of approximately 25%. I would like to briefly take you through the financial performance for the financial year '23, '24. The consolidated operating profit after tax and noncontrolling interest in the financial year '23, '24 stood at INR 984 crores. During the financial year '23, '24, we have taken provision of INR 985 crores on certain corporate accounts in our distressed credit business. These provisions primarily include exceptional provision of INR 847 crores relating to 1 large account due to a change in resolution strategy, plan and events subsequent to the balance sheet date. The impact of this provision adjusted for tax and noncontrolling interest stood at INR 574 crores for financial year '23, '24. Accordingly, our reported consolidated profit after tax and loan controlling interest for the financial year '23, '24 declined by 31% to INR 410 crores from INR 597 crores in the previous financial year. The Board of Directors of your company has recommended dividend of INR 2 per share for the financial year '23, '24 as compared to INR 1.80 per share paid during the previous year. The final dividend will be paid on or after August 7, 2024, if declared by the members at the 39th AGM. The performance highlights of the group's various businesses have been mentioned in detail in the management discussion and analysis report forming part of the annual report for the year '23, '24. Consolidated first quarter results for the financial year '25. I'm pleased to report that the Board of Directors of the company at it's meeting held today, has approved the standalone and consolidated financial results for the first quarter ended June 30, 2024. The key highlights of the consolidated financial performance of the company for the June quarters are, total income stood at INR 1,094 crores as against INR 1,081 crores. Profit before tax increased by 6% (sic) [ 6.4% ] to INR 245 crores from INR 230 crores. Net profit after tax and before loan controlling interest increased by 6% to INR 187 crores from INR 176 crores. Net profit after tax noncontrolling interest and share of associates increased by 3% to INR 171 crores from INR 166 crores. I take the opportunity to thank my colleagues on the Board for their valuable contribution during the year. I would also like to convey my deepest gratitude to all our employees, clients, shareholders, and other shareholders for their continued support and cooperation. I also like to thank the Reserve Bank of India, Securities and Exchange Board of India and other institutions, which are also involved with us in our regulatory function. I welcome your thoughts and feedback as we look forward to solid, stable and sustainable growth. We are playing a video of our financial highlights for financial year '23, '24, and therefore, a short video clipping and also a short video clipping on CSR activities undertaken by JM Financial Group. I'm sure you'll be pleased to see the same. I would like to thank all of you for your time and attention. I now request moderator to play the video for members viewing. Thank you. [Presentation]

I now request the Company Secretary to read out the ordinary and special business as stated in the notice of the meeting.

I will read out the business as stated in the notice. Item #1, adoption of audited standalone financial statements together with the reports of Board of Directors and Auditors thereon. Item #2, adoption of audited consolidated financial statements together with the report of auditors thereon. Item #3, declaration of dividend for the financial year 2023, '24. Item #4, appointment of Mr. Adi Patel, a Director retiring by rotation and being eligible offers himself for reappointment. Item #5, appointment of KKC & Associates, LLP, as the Statutory Auditors of the company for the period of 5 consecutive financial years commencing from the conclusion of this AGM until the conclusion of the 44th AGM and authorize Board of Directors to fix their remuneration. Item #6, approval for entering into material related party transactions with JM Financial Credit Solutions Limited for an aggregate amount of INR 500 crores from the conclusion of 39th AGM until the conclusion of 40th AGM of the company to be held in the financial year 2025, '26. Item #7, approval for entering into material related party transactions with JM Financial Asset Reconstruction Company Limited for an aggregate amount of INR 750 crores from the conclusion of 39th AGM until the conclusion of 40th AGM of the company to be held in the financial year 2025, '26. Item #8, approval for entering into related party transactions with JM Financial Products Limited for an aggregate amount of INR 750 crores from the conclusion of the 39th AGM until the conclusion of 40th AGM of the company to be held in the financial year 2025, '26. Item #9 approval for entering into material related party transactions with JM Financial Services Limited for an aggregate amount of INR 750 crores during a financial year 2024, '25, including and up to the AGM to be held in the financial year 2025, '26. Item #10, approval for related party transactions between the subsidiaries of the company, as outlined in the slide resolution. Item #11, approval for material related party transactions between the company and INH Mauritius 1, a related party of JM Financial Credit Solutions Limited, as are outlined in the said resolution. And Item #12, approval for material related party transaction to sell equity shares of JM Financial Asset Reconstruction Company Limited, held by the company to JM Financial Credit Solutions Limited. I now request the Chairman, sir, to take over the proceedings of the meeting.

I now request the moderator to invite the members who registered themselves as a speaker to speak.

[Operator Instructions] Vimal Kumar Agarwal.

Good afternoon and good day also everyone because it's a video conference, I know people are joining from all over the world. First of all, thank the Company Secretary and his team for sending me the link and also the moderator for announcing my name. As the share price has escalated so much, I got no question to ask and our company should do very well in the future. That's all from me. Thank you very much. And, who are our competitors in this business? That's all from me. Thank you. Also continue with video conference since all the people from anywhere can join the meeting. That's all from me. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Our next speaker shareholder is Ms. Rekha Shah. [Operator Instructions]

Thank you, sir. Respected, Chairman sir, Board of Directors, [indiscernible], good afternoon and regards to everyone. Rekha Shah from Mumbai. First of all, I would like to welcome our new Company Secretary, Hemant bhai, on the Board. Also, I would like to thank our Company Secretary, Hemantji, for giving me the opportunity and for smooth process, where I'm able to talk in front of all in AGM. I found the AGM notice and I'm delighted to say the AGM report is so beautiful, full of colors, facts and figures simply. Also it's really useful with lot information. Thank you, Chairman, sir, for explaining us well about the company. Congratulations for excellent work, sir. Sir, I pray to God 2024 comes with great prosperity for our company. Thanks for the dividend sir. Chairman, sir, I hope, that the company will continue with video conference meeting in future. Again, I think your company, Hemant bhai, for the best performing and always outstanding support for all my doubts. Hence, I have no questions today, sir. Chairman sir, my previous speaker, Vimal Kumar Agarwal, I totally agree with you. Please continue video conference meeting in the future. So I strongly and wholeheartedly support all the resolutions for today's meeting. Thank you so much sir.

Thank you.

Thank you very much. Our next speaker shareholder is Mr. Satish Shah. Please go ahead. [Operator Instructions].

[Foreign Language].

Thank you very much. Our next speaker shareholder is Mr. Himanshu Upadhyay. [Operator Instructions].

I have sent a list of questions, but I'll read a few of them. And -- so we have spoken about being optimistic on our integrated investment banking, retail mortgage and platform AWS businesses, but nothing about our wholesale funding ARC and FIF business. Should we assume that they are not core to the organization in the MD speech. Secondly, we have stated that we want to pivot wholesale credit business to syndicating transactions. But can it be scaled a size of INR 15,000 crore loan book and where it can contribute, let's say, a INR 400 crore type of bottom line, which was there in the previous cycle in the next many years? Next question is if we aspire to reach the previous highs in this wholesale business, what capabilities would we need to develop and what progress have we made to remodels this business. And similar question is also on the FIF business because some of these changes will be happening on FIF and ARC businesses also. Fourth, we have stated that risk-adjusted returns have reduced in the wholesale business. But what we see is a lot of competition has also stopped doing the business. And the challenge of good builders not taking the loans as sales velocity is good seems to be a cyclical challenge. Hence, is not the lower risk-adjusted return currently a temporary challenge? So, next question, again on this wholesale and FIF funding business where business is going to remodel. Will the underwriting process and followup for these businesses remain the same. Or there will be challenges here also when you are remodeling the whole business model? Sixth one. Can you give an idea of how and what are we doing to scale fee and commission generating businesses? You have stated that those are our top priorities. But in terms of steps, what you are taking to increase or grow that portion of the business will be helpful. We have stated that we want to have a INR 6,000 crore AUM on the retail mortgage side from INR 3,000 crores in 3 years, okay? We've not seen one full cycle also in this business or a matured stage. Are not we being too aggressive in this side of the business? Next is on some M&A activity, what we were trying to do. Every financial institution will have a core set of people who develop a culture and that -- on that culture, the trust develops in the market, when you are evaluating one of the companies for acquisitions or merger, what were you thinking about these aspects? And what were the reasons for not going for that M&A activity? Next is, are we interested in inorganic growth opportunities? And what type of businesses you would not like to acquire? Again, I'm saying we do not -- or what we will not be acquiring, that would be helpful? And next is we have seeded many other businesses like Bondskart, [indiscernible] et cetera, all small businesses. What is the thought process here? And can these be of scale where they can make an impact on the profits of our company? And how do we select businesses we want to enter or do? So these are some of my questions. Detailed reply will be helpful. Thanks.

Thank you very much. Our next speaker shareholder is Mr. Vinod Agarwal. [Operator Instructions]

Respected Chairman, Mr. Nimesh Kampaniji; MD Adi Patel; our Vice Chairman, Vishal Kampani; CFO, Nishit Shah; C.S. Hemant Pandya. Sir, the working of the company has been good. The PAT was down from INR 597 crores to INR 410 crores, mainly due to a one-off in the JM Financial ARC company, which had an impact of about [ INR 890 crores ] due to some 1 large resolution plan going bad or being rescheduled. So otherwise, our company has been performing well. We've got 4,000 employees. And even our CSR activities I'm going through the report are so good sir. In Bihar you have done eye hospital, you are doing 2 mobile health units you are running every day. And the project Bachpan for children. Sir, very good work you are doing sir. And I wish the company all the best. And then this cash have done the cash under management loan book, all of which I'm seeing in front of me. Private wealth management INR 68,105 crores. Loan book INR 12,917, all available, sir. I can read the figures from the annual report, but that's not the point of reading because they are all in front of you, sir. But I compliment the management and everyone for doing the good work and giving good results to the company. Signing off, Vinod from Mumbai.

Thank you very much. Next speaker shareholder is Mr. Rajendra [ Sheth ]. [Operator Instructions]

[Foreign Language].

Our next speaker shareholder is Meenal Bang. We lost the connection for the speaker shareholder. We move on to our next speaker shareholder. Our next speaker shareholder is Anil Parekh. Kindly unmute your audio and video.

First of all, Nimesh, [Foreign Language]. I hope you are very fine. [Foreign Language] And I am glad that your son is leading from the front. I'm very much happy that he has taken all the charge in his command. And I would only say that under his vision and determination, we will grow further. Chairman sir, I would like to thank our CS team, particularly Hemant and Rajesh and all, they are doing excellent investor relationships, and they will be good asset to the company. Thank you, Hemant, for doing so with the Investor Relations. Chairman sir, once again, this is a marvelous year for us, and we have reached income of INR 4,832 crores and PAT of INR 410 crores. We have locations in 4 overseas and 215 cities, all round performance, all in all, our -- all the credit ratings are A+ and A++ stable, so that's good, very good, sir. That shows your commitment towards the company and towards the shareholder. Chairman sir, I have nothing to say about financials. It is very detailed given in the Annual Report. I'm thankful to our Hemant for taken each and every minute details to mention it. I would only say that under your dynamic leadership, we will still further grow at a faster pace, and we will be becoming 1 of the finest financial institutions in India. Thanking you all for allowing me to speak and I hope you will think of digital meeting since we have not met since last many years. Thank you.

Out next speaker shareholder is Humayu Pardeshi, registered, however, has not joined the AGM meeting. We move on to our next speaker register. Our next speaker shareholder is Rajendra Prasad Joshi.

Nimesh Kampani, and Vice Chairman, Vishal Kampani, and other eminent Directors present in today's AGM. Sir, myself Rajendra Prasad Joshi, shareholder, speaking from my residence at Mumbai. First of all, I was very happy to see your presentation, giving all the activities of the [ CSIR ], just now we have given the AGM. So nice -- you are doing a very, very good service for the society. And please, I wish that you will continue the same way. Secondly, Chairman sir, I'm very much thankful to CS, Company Secretary, Hemant Pandya, and his team for sending me the annual report well on time. Sir, our company sales team is functioning excellently. Mr. Rajas Kulkarni is doing the very good work, he is always on call and replying our queries. I also appreciate Mr. Hemant Pandya. He is very polite and cordial nature. I wish him all the best for his career in our company as a Company Secretary. Chairman sir, our compliments to you and your whole JM team for strong financial performance, resulting in the highest ever quarterly revenues and operating profit for the quarter 3 financial year '24. Our company has also reported highest stable individual operating revenues this year. Sir, I'm very much optimistic of company's bright future and sustainable growth under the visionary leadership of Nimesh Kampani and Vishal Kampani. Sir, I'm very much hopeful and I'm very sure that even Vishal Kampani is handling our company matter in an excellent way. I would like to know -- some of the question's answer. So which business vertical is a highly profitable with a better future prospects? Second question is, what are our organic and inorganic growth plans in pipeline? And thirdly, what our company's strategy to fight out the active competition in the market scenario? With this, I thank you very much, Chairman sir, thank you Company Secretary, for giving me this opportunity to speak from this platforms. And I also strongly support all the resolutions of today's meeting. Thank you very much, sir.

Next our speaker shareholder is Mr. Bharat Shah, registered however, has not joined the meeting. We move on to our next speaker shareholder. Our next speaker shareholder is Smita Shah. Kindly accept the prompt and join as panelist and unmute your audio and video.

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language]

Our next speaker shareholder is Aspi Bhesania. Aspi Bhesania, I request you to kindly join us as panelist.

Chairman sir, I am Aspi from Bombay. Thanks for giving me an opportunity to speak. Sir, why no physical AGM? Sir, requested by others, you should hold a physical AGM from next year. I would like to know how many people have joined from overseas. They cannot come and because of that, you're keeping online meeting. Sir, please request the moderator to announce the speaker number because, otherwise, we don't know when to be ready for speaking because it's already past 5 o'clock and only 12 speakers are over. Sir, I welcome Mr. Adi Patel as MD -- Joint MD. I also welcome our new CFO, Mr. Nishit Shah, and I also welcome Mr. Hemant Pandya, as Company Secretary. Sir, this is 39th AGM, whereas Page 10, it is mentioned about Golden Jubilee celebration. How Golden Jubilee in 39 years, if you can explain? Sir, Page 6, AUM loan book, et cetera, is shown, please give previous year's figures also that we can compare the growth. Sir, congrats on highest consolidated revenue. Sir, when can we achieve highest consolidated profit of INR 773 crores? Sir, there is an exceptional loss of INR 847 crores in ARC, eating 2/3 of our annual profit. I hope you will ensure that such losses don't occur again. Sir SEBI and RBI regulatory action was not good. Have you not bought whole bonds? Sir, buyback is ending on 30 September, sir I request you to go for a small buyback before 30 September rather than giving a dividend. You can slash the dividend a bit, but go for a buyback because buyback is tax efficient in the hands of the shareholders. Thank you very much and all the best for the future.

Our next speaker shareholder is [ Kriti Jai Shah ], however, has not joined. We will move on to our next speaker shareholder. Our next speaker shareholder is [ Sharad Kumar Jivraj Shah ], registered, however, has not joined the meeting. Our next speaker shareholder is Davinder Kaur, registered, however, has not joined the meeting. Our next speaker shareholder is Hitesh Doshi from Nirzar Enterprises, registered, however, has not joined the meeting. Our next speaker shareholder is Satish Doshi from Nirzar Securities, registered, however, has not joined the meeting. Our next speaker shareholder is Dhruvesh Sanghvi. Kindly accept the prompt and join as panelist.

I have a couple of questions. So if you can just give the sense of what is the outcome of the RBI audit related to the capital market funding? And what are the remedial steps? And generally, how does the procedure go ahead in such situations? And what is the kind of time that it takes to resolve and if not solved, what are the implications, financial, nonfinancial in this area, along with the time lines? Second is, I hope that management is considering quarterly con call. I just wanted to give that as a suggestion. I also wanted to understand that because now we are pivoting away from all the lending businesses, and there will still be some lending associated to the investment banking activities. But if within that capital market funding is -- lending is not allowed, what does happen to the kind of book that we may achieve over the next 3 to 4 years? I mean will we have a INR 4,000 crore, INR 5 crore lending book in some other format? Or no, the need of funds beyond INR 2,000 crores, INR 3,000 crores is just not there. If the capital market financing activity is not taken into consideration. In terms of AIF business, I think we are moving towards the fee-based AIF businesses and majorly distribution. But will JMB co-lending in all these AIF vehicles and -- what is the structure like? Is it like we are going to be asset managers and try to pull capital from multiple people the way mutual funds work and many other AIFs work today. And what kind of yields can happen here? And what is the size required to achieve any meaningful result in the AIF business? And sir, last part, again, I mean this is slightly philosophical considering 6, 7 years of investing with JM with nearly -- or very poor outcomes and it is not nailing you anywhere, but just trying to, as a shareholder, well-wisher and also to probe your thoughts that every time I find that we are behind in making a decision in terms of something new, which is starting in the industry, whether it is -- either we are first and we leave it away like the way we did with mutual funds in the past, or the entire private credit space, AIF, the wealth management, everywhere, we are only catching up the digital onboarding, which was not even started in 2020 -- before 2020. So where are we missing? Is it that the Board is so qualified, you are the pioneers in this industry, all the connects are available to you so easily. Why is this foresight or execution being missed consistently? And are we -- I mean, is it a situation where we will not be able to cope up in any other place or -- because every time when we speak internally with our friends, our colleagues in the industry, the general opinion is that JM is apart from the investment banking where the senior Kampani, and of course, Vishal and all the team has done a phenomenal job. But nowhere else we have been able to make any serious leadership that we ideally were supposed to make because there was definite right to win in your case. And I want your thoughts and maybe if you can touch more upon it rather than just pass it on in 1 or 2 statements? And how are we correcting it? And 1 more. Again, this is not a complaint, but observation after being associated for 6, 7 years is the overall culture within the employees and the organization, what I find is, people are just very relaxed. People are extremely satisfied and nowhere in the other financial company I have seen so much satisfaction on the employee front. So -- and due to which the sales hunger is somewhere missing is what I feel as a shareholder who has been associated for a long time. So yes, these are the mix of observations, some questions and some thoughts if you can just throw some light wherever you can. Thank you.

Our next speaker shareholder is Dinesh Bhatia, requesting you to kindly join as panelist. Unmute your audio and video and proceed with the question.

[Foreign Language]

Our next speaker shareholder is Celestine Mascarenhas. Mam, I may request you to kindly join as panelist. Unmute your audio and video and proceed with your question, please.

Chairman, Mr. Nimesh Kampani; Vice Chairman, Vishal Kampani; MD, Mr. Adi Patel, other members of the Board, my dear fellow shareholders, I am Mrs. CE Mascarenhas, I'm speaking from Mumbai. First of all, I thank the Company Secretary, Mr. Hemant Pandya and his team, especially Mr. Kulkarni, who send me an Annual Report and also registered me as a speaker at my request and also this platform. Only thing the numbers were not given. So we had to just sit in front of the screen all the while. Anyway, it's worth it than coming to the place and attending the physical annual meet, which is traveling in this rain and all is a real hassle. So I would say you keep hybrid or you keep this virtual because though we don't get much to interact, but it is worthy. Thank you so much. Now our working is very good. Our annual report is really beautiful with lots of pictures of all the activities, what is going in our company, especially the 50th year celebration, very good pictures. I'm very happy. Then, lots of information. And at the same time, self-explanatory, adhering to all the norms of corporate governance. Our working is very good. Revenue up, dividend of INR 2 per share of INR 1 is commendable even market capitalization is good. I endorse the view of the earlier shareholder also give buyback before September because otherwise -- even if you give dividend, it adds up after this present government, everything is adding in your income, and it goes to a very high, high slab and all that capital gains, short term, long term, which was not there earlier has all come into. And actually, what we get ultimately at the end of the day, nothing is remaining. This is what. So it is better if you do it before September what other shareholders said. Now congratulations for the award and accolades as given on Page 51, very good CSR work, I appreciate very much. Then now I come to my queries. Number one, have we listed the ESG on any dedicated ESG platform? If so, domestic or international? And what is our rating score? Second question is, how many total employees average age and the attrition level. I come to the third question, which already another person had asked, but I also -- I have got a different way. We are ranked as #1 in the IPO and QIP on Page 27. Recently, there was a ban of IPO financing. Now what is the status now, whether that is all removed, or still it is there? My next question is, we have real estate consulting services. How much revenues we have earned and the margin we get? Five is, our private wealth AUM stands at INR 68,105 crores, that is year 21% growth Y-o-Y. Any thought of demerging and listing it as a separate entity like many other companies and unlocking the shareholder value? Sixth is, do we have reverse mortgage funding, especially for senior citizens? Last but not the least, future road map for the next 5 years, any CapEx plan for organic, inorganic growth? And which vertical you people feel will be the biggest growth drivers for the future. With this, I support all the resolutions. I look my company as solid, stable and sustainable. And I wish you all very good health because health is wealth. With this, thank you very much. God bless you. Now Mr. Mascarenhas, he also wants to say, he's also a shareholder, to say a few words.

Hello, I'm a registered shareholder. Respected Chairman sir, very distinguished members of the Board and my fellow shareholders. My name is Aloysius Mascarenhas. I'm a proud shareholder of this prestigious company. I'm holding shares of this company for the last 25 to 30 years. I have seen the ups and downs of this company. And now the growth story is very good, and we are going in the right line. And there's a lot of IPOs which are coming, I would like to know what is our market share? How much are we dealing in these IPOs as a merchant banker, and getting good revenue? And my only question now is about the budget, recent budget. How it has affected us? Whether we are -- whether it is positive or negative to our profitability? Rest all questions have been asked by my predecessor shareholders and many may ask now along after me. So I end my speech wishing you [ personally ] all the Board members and more importantly, all the employees, all the very best in the days and years to come. With this, sir, thank you very much for patient hearing. Thank you. God bless you. Good luck, goodbye, and good health. Thank you.

Our next speaker shareholder is Hiranand Kotwani. Hiranand Kotwani, kindly accept the prompt and join us panelist and unmute your audio and video.

It's a great pleasure. I have waited for long to see that our outcome will be how many people talk for relevancy. All are registered persons attended in this meeting, but even though those are respected ones, not asking the relevant question with the balance sheet, just asking the other things. But [ compared to the appoint gentlemen ], you shared in your balance sheet, Page 30, there's so many -- particularly INR 15,000 -- amounting more than INR 5,62,000 crores. One of the major was you were advised to the HDFC Bank Limited, giant institution. How much we earn from these transactions, if you can elaborate, like INR 5,62,000 crores? So many question has been asked. One Mr. Upadyaya was taking 1 or 2 question, I will not repeat, because this time is important. And 1 thing I want to clear that there are so many subsidiaries in foreign also. You will give the service to the NRI, our organization giving service to the foreign exchange also. There was an organization of JM at Mauritius, even America, London, what type of business we do, how much foreign exchange in the year gone back? And how the future in this year, you're business here because we are booming. Even though 1 or 2 days, there was a high and low, and we see that new law will come within a few days. And again, we will bounce back. What are your call in this regards? Because the global event [ aren't good ], and you are visionary, your father, I was [indiscernible] 42 years because I know Mr. Harshad Mehta, gentleman 1 of the great old man at Champaklal. So what are the vision and mission our business will continue? What headwind will come, particularly the 1 thing which I read in your -- that your -- some step down subsidiary, what are the relevancy of that in NCLT 1 case was there, when you stepped down, subsidiary was there. What is the relevancy of that? Is there any trouble it came to the -- you merge with 1 entity? And the stock option, you say the stock option; you are a shareholder, you are employee. What kind of rate do you give, some 6 lakhs share? What is the criteria? Is the time now that you give to the shares to the employee, because some options are open again, price rise, the employee come and buy, and say I want the option to exercise. So what are the criteria? Nothing more there. Just convey good wishes to the future of this organization, and give the reward to the investors who took great ups and downs because long way to ago, global events are unfold. Thank you. Good luck.

Our next speaker shareholder is Dileep Kumar Jain. Kindly accept the prompt and join as panelist and unmute your audio and video and proceed with your question.

[Foreign Language]

Our next speaker shareholder is Mr. Anil Mehta. Anil Mehta, kindly accept the prompt and join as panelist and unmute your audio and video.

This is Anil Mehta, attending this meeting from my residence in Mumbai with all my family members, they are also the shareholders of the company. We have a few questions, sir. The question number one, with the increase of globalization, what has the company done to increase the international breadth of knowledge and experience on the board? My second question, how does the management monitor intercompany transactions? Question number three, what are the major opportunities and challenges facing the company? And how does the management plan to respond? Question four, what are the principal objectives in the company's business plan for the next year? For the next 5 years? Question five, how does the company assess its liquidity and availability of the funding sources for operations? And the last question, what is the company doing to improve the shareholders' interest? With this, we are supporting all the resolution and thanks to the secretarial department for their cooperation and supportive nature. All the best. Thank you.

We have the line from Meenal Bang reconnected. I will request Meenal mam to kindly unmute the prompt and join as panelist and unmute your audio and video.

I have joined from Mumbai. I have a couple of questions. I'll go one by one. The first question is, as we look at the past 10 years of our performance, what are the things we think we have executed well and on which we ensure we think we could have done better? The second question is, what are the key learnings of our organization from last 8 to 10 years across business functions? The third question is, our organizational structure, it's quite top heavy. There are around 30 to 35 managing directors across business functions. How do we think -- how do we integrate so many opinions and suggestions? And I would like to -- I would feel it -- it would be very difficult from a decision-making standpoint. Can you just please share your perception on the same? The next question is similar to the above context. Do we see scope to simplify organizational structure? The next couple of questions are on the syndication business that we are looking to build. Where did this idea come from? And how does it work? What would be a niche in this area? The next question is, can you please simplify the business model that we're looking at building in the syndication business? And the last question is, given that private credit, alternative segments are still at a nascent stage and the regulatory environment is still evolving, so how are we ensuring that in the long run, we don't face any major regulatory hiccups in this business? Thank you.

Thank you very much. Our next speaker shareholder is Sharad -- [ Sharad kumar Jivrat shah ]. Requesting you kindly unmute. Sharad kumar, kindly unmute. Go ahead, sir. You're audible. Yes, sir.

Yes, good effort. I could join because you said, I have not joined the meeting. Finally, I had sent the mail and then I got with from moderators -- and he made me to join. And I said my name is there. He said you can join only on audio. I said, okay, let me speak whatever I want. Sir, now I was saying good afternoon, but now it is good evening, sir. And the main thing that chairman speak, you said the Q1 results are very good. So I'm very happy -- and basically, I refer Page #247. And this is a standalone report and it is excellent. When I refer Page #329, it is consolidated report. And basically, it is affected because of the exceptional items and the tax. So the performance is lower. And the PAT is only INR 30.75 crores. At the same time, our employment cost is INR 795.44 crores. So it is something that shareholders cannot accept, sir. And another thing what I have seen the Page #125, sir, the net debt equity ratio is 1.01 -- 1.04. So it looks like that the debt is very high and when I refer Page #7, it says the number of employees are 4,000. And when I refer to Page #291, it says only 290. So what is correct that I would like to know. When I refer Page #36, this particular question is also asked on loan against property. But whether we do a reverse mortgage, which is very popular in U.S.A. that is not very clear. So if you can clarify, I will be very happy, sir. And purpose of joining this meeting is that I will tell you now. I refer Page #27. So, you have done Tata Technology IPO, your [indiscernible] Tata Technology IPO. And before I have read the RSP and I have written to your Prachee Dhuri, then company and RTA, and Prachee Dhuri has confirmed to me that whatever is written in RSP on Page #459 the allotment to the Tata Motors shareholders is proportionate. It was a single word and even [ RTA ] has confirmed and after that in December, Tata Motors workout, what is proportionate, but while doing the allotment, they have not done allotment as per RSP and last 6 months, I'm complaining to them and even with Chandrasekaran -- and Chandrasekaran, I told him finally because he is not able to reply my question because he is at fault. So what happened? Finally, I have to write to him on 15th July, that you are a dummy Chairman of Tata Group of companies because when you make the mistake and when my [indiscernible] point out, correct me, I'm really happy with your Prachee Dhuri. She could find out and before issue opens on 24th November issue was opened, she has written to me on 22nd that allotment should be proportionate. And really, I appreciate your staff, your company for guiding people, taking interest of the people, we are not only IPO #1 people, but you -- whatever you would see we invest right to you before the IPO, you correctly guide, but it is and even the Tata Motors people called me in their office but they could not raise the issue. And finally, I have to write to the Chairman of Tata Sons that you cannot reply, you cannot accept my -- your mistake, and it looks like that you are a dummy Chairman of the company. Thank you very much for giving your opportunity. Thank you very much, sir.

Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last speaker shareholder for the day. I now hand the conference to the management. Sir, go ahead.

Can you hear me. Am I audible? Your first question is from Vimalkumar Agarwal. Who are our competition. So we have many segments of business. So we have competitors across different segments. And generally, it would be some of the banks and the banks subsidiaries which are involved in broking and investment banking and asset management. And then there will be stand-alone players who are involved in same businesses, investment banking broking as well as asset management. And on the lending side, there are a lot of specialists private equity-backed housing finance companies that compete with our retail home loans business. And on the wholesale side of the business, again, we compete with banks, we compete with AIFs and also foreign banks through their local branches as well as the international funds that they come and invest in the wholesale side of the business. The next speaker is Rekha Shah and there is no question there. Satish Shah is on dividend policy and dividend policy is between 20% and 25% of our profit, and we will maintain that kind of consistently. The next question is from Himanshu Upadhyay on Mutual Fund. I think the mutual fund business has done extremely well. Our current AUM for July has crossed INR 10,000 crores. We started building the business again, on the retail side of the business almost 18 months ago with new management. And 18 months ago, I think we are -- our AUM was not even INR 2,000 crores. So we have seen a 5x growth in AUM and we are very excited with the future growth prospects on the mutual fund business. The next question is from Vinod Agarwal on ARC. The ARC provision is a one-off provision due to Ind AS. A lot of the assets that we were working on were revised upwards many years ago, depending on the free cash flow and the amount of capital we would be able to generate or returns we regenerate from the capital invested over time. Because of the 2 waves of COVID, the returns that we generated with the final outcome of the sale of the assets was not as per the valuations, which we have recorded as per Ind AS. And therefore, we had to take a technical write-down, large part of it is in one asset. And yes, we do not see any of this kind of exceptional item repeating in the future. Shareholder #7 was Meenal Bang. You joined later, but we received your list of questions, and I will answer them one by one. So I think -- your first question is on last 10 years' performance, what are the things we have executed well and we could have done better? I think we could have -- I'll answer the first -- second question on what we could have done better. We could have done a lot better on the asset management business. We could have scaled it earlier and faster. We started around, as I said, 18 months to 24 months ago, and I think we should have invested more in the asset management and retail side earlier. On the other businesses, I think we've executed most of them very well. And as you know, that the wholesale lending businesses have gone through a turbulent time right from ILFS to the COVID-related issues. And I think we've come out very strong and come out very well from them. Despite the heavy amount of provisioning that we've done over the years, our organization has -- as a group has still been very profitable and has been paying dividends, which is a very clear sign of very good execution. Execution has to be looked at, not only in good times but execution also has to be looked at in challenging times. And it is in challenging times where how you execute and how you manage the external environment as well as the internal environment is very critical. And I must say the team at JM Financial in the last 5 years, which has been a challenging time done extremely well on the wholesale credit side. On the Investment Banking and Wealth Management and broking side, we have done very, very well. All of our revenues are at all-time high last year and God willing if the markets continue with the momentum that we have seen in the last 3 years, then we should again have all-time high revenues and profits in that business this year. Key learnings of our organization last 8 to 10 years across business functions. It's a good question, a very philosophical kind of question. I mean there are lots of learnings. We have to on one hand, think about where should we be very conservative in the business, where should we not be conservative in the business? For example, again, when we look at the wholesale credit businesses, I think we got a bit conservative before the ILFS crisis, and that actually helped us. So when people -- some people tell us that, "Oh, it should be aggressive in terms of lending." I think being conservative at that stage, turned out to be very positive because we had not envisioned the kind of issues we could have faced with ILFS and COVID. So a key learning is that do not get measured always by what your competitor is doing and how fast your competition is growing. Your competition could have different sources of capital, they could have different motivations. They could be private equity backed and they may have a very different risk appetite from yours. And if you're always benchmarking yourself to try and beat competition without keeping all of these factors in mind that could mean trouble for your business. So I think understanding where -- how your business is, how your culture is, what is your company's risk appetite and how you can manage your asset and liabilities is more important than really always focusing on the competitive aspect, especially on the lending side of the businesses. And on the fee-based side, I think the business are exceedingly well, as I said. We have improved our market share in almost every single business, right, from investment banking to broking to wealth management. And we hopefully will do the same for asset management over the next few years. Organizational structure actually is not top heavy. We are a highly people-driven business. And for the growth that we are seeing over the next 5 to 7 years, I must say that 30 to 35 managing directors are not enough. We will see that number scale even bigger over the next couple of years. And I think it's important to have senior people in fee-based businesses. These people are the key sort of relationship people who manage all of our client base. Our client base is largely institutional and corporate and very promoter heavy. And so it's very important to have the right senior people who win business for us and manage this relationship for us. In the above context, do we see scope to simplify organizational structure? Yes, we're always looking at scope to simplify organizational structure. And if there are tax efficient ways and if there are good reasons to do that, which will create more shareholder value, we will be always open to that. A couple of questions on syndication business that we are looking to build. I think there are some questions around the syndication business even from other shareholders. So I will just answer that right now. So it addresses even the questions that come in the future. So the backdrop on why we have pivoted to an off-balance sheet model versus on-balance sheet model is important for all shareholders to understand. And I did explain the same in our conference call earlier in May for our annual results. So let's understand what we were doing in the wholesale credit business. So we have 4 businesses. We have the corporate and promoter lending/the Bespoke finance business, which works very closely with our investment bank and is focused on giving credit facilities and arranging credit facilities for all of our corporate clients and promote our clients. Then we have the real estate finance, where we do a host of activities right from land finance, approval, finance loan against property as well as construction finance. And we also do structured credit for real estate developers. Then we have the distressed credit business, which is housing our ARC, which again is extremely specialized business and is very, very risky and requires a lot of attention in terms of how we identify cash flows and how we identify the risk and we are underwriting assets. And the fourth, of course, is funding financial institutions and promoters of financial institutions for both their equity requirements and as well as the continuous lines of financing they need on balance sheet. Now these businesses rely on a good amount of structuring, a good amount of expertise. And what we have seen in the last couple of years is that the capital markets side of this business is gaining a lot of scale and the banking and NBFC side of the business from both a regulatory perspective and a liability perspective is facing challenges. Let me just explain that a little in more detail. So if you see -- before the ILFS crises, there were a lot of banks and NBFCs who are growing the wholesale side of the business quite aggressively. And it was very, very profitable. We started this business almost more than a decade ago. We also entered into a partnership with some very marquee shareholders, including Vikram Pandit and the investors he brought on board. And that business saw a very good run for 4 to 5 years. And then when we saw the situation unfolding in terms of times getting difficult, real estate sales slowing down as well as a slowdown in the general economy, we realized that the original estimates that we had made for recoveries in bad times from bad assets in this business is actually a much more stretched timeline than we had envisaged earlier. So for example, if we envisaged that on a bad asset, we would take, say, 6 months to 12 months for recovery. The actual recovery timelines are more than 24 to 30 months. And this adds a lot of deadweight cost on capital. Point number two, when things become difficult in the wholesale credit business, the liability cost goes up substantially. So for example, if you are borrowing at 8.5% and when things get difficult, the liability cost can go up to almost 10.5% to 11%. I'm just giving an example because this is the kind of fluctuation we have seen in this business. So what happens is you get squeezed from both ends. When you have NPAs and your NPA recovery is delayed, you have deadweight cost of assets sitting on your books, which are earning no returns. And second, when your liability costs go up, even though you have a good book, which is running well, your returns get squeezed. And we did not anticipate when we were building this business at a difficult time, this can blow out a lot of the return on assets that you expect you will still be able to earn. And therefore, we made a strategic pivot. We also realized that the recovery infrastructure in India is still not in terms of very efficient, well-oiled and top class like you see in the Western economies and Western markets. In the U.S. and U.K., for example, most recovery processes are completed within 12 months, and the banks are paid out or the financiers are paid out, this is not the case in India. So we realized at the same time that there is a large amount of capital that is moving in the capital markets. And very quickly is willing to take risk on assets like this in the form of alternative investment funds or in the form of private equity and hedge funds sitting internationally, who are able to absorb this kind of risk. And these are -- these -- this form of capital is not subject to capital requirements because they are more financing funds in nature, where they don't have a debt equity requirement, and they're able to hold assets for 3 to 4 to 5 years and not see the volatility, which one sees in an NBFC or a bank balance sheet. And this volume of money has been steadily increasing in the last couple of years. So when we wrote down a new business plan with our partners as well as our teams, we figured that we have a great understanding in all of these 4 segments. Our Corporate and Bespoke business was always driven through a syndication model for the last couple of years, and they've done very well. They've been earning extremely good fees on a syndication model. So we figured that if the volume of money is going to be larger in the capital market space versus the banking and finance space. And there is a squeeze on the P&L and actually -- actually resulting in very low ROAs in the business and, therefore, low ROEs. It makes sense that we pivot using our capital market expertise and a core understanding of structuring and lending on the wholesale side to a syndication-led model, a syndication-led model where we will sell down a lot of the risk that we are able to originate and underwrite from our balance sheet to people who want to hold this risk long term in their portfolios. And that is the ongoing pivot. And our action plan is that in this year, this year is a year of consolidation where our loan book will come down substantially because we are not extending new loans as a project financier, but we are structuring, we continue to structure and advise clients to place a lot of their credit requirements in these capital markets. So that is simply the pivot. The profitability from this business is very good, is very robust because a significant portion from the -- of the profit will come from fee-based income and not fund-based income. And therefore, over time, as we scale the syndication business, you will see much stronger ROAs and a lot less cyclical return on equity. So I just thought I'd give a full perspective on what we are trying to do here. It addresses even some of the questions asked by the other shareholders on the same topic. Yes. So [ Rajinder Joshi ], your question was what vertical is most profitable? Yes, for us, our equity broking and our investment banking business is the most profitable business. And that is because we've taken a significant amount of provisions on our wholesale credit business, specifically in real estate. We don't anticipate further provisions in that starting from next year. I think this year will be the fag end of the provisioning cycle. Again, this year, we need to provide only because our loan book is coming down because we are not doing new loans. Otherwise, there is no real need to provide from asset security perspective. It is only to manage the percentage NPA. But I think from next year onwards, you will even see a lot of profitability come through from a private credit syndication business. Question on how to fight competition. I mean it's a jungle out there, right? So you got to fight every day, yes. Next question is from -- yes, Smita and Bharat Shah on when was the last bonus given, I have the data. I'll just give it to you. The last bonus was on 8th September 2008. The bonus ratio was raised to 2. -- [ 2 shares for 3 ]. Yes. And there was also a split on the same date from INR 10 to INR 1. Yes. So the question is on how -- Aspi's question was on 39 years and why not 50? It is because the business was started by a holding company, JMFICS, and the business actually is 50 years old. From this entity perspective, which is listed, it's a 39th year, but from a business perspective, we finish 50-years. Then we have I think Sharad Kumar, you have some questions. Yes. I think your first question is on consolidated affected by exception and tax performance lower than previous year. I think the PAT of INR 410 crores is after the one-off provision that we have made, and therefore, it is lower. And there's only one exceptional provision, as I explained in the ARC, which has been taken into account. And this was our largest account and we don't have any other accounts of this size. And therefore, we do not expect this kind of exceptional provision to come again. And without these additional provisions, the profit after tax would have be INR 984 crores. I think 4,000 employees on Page 291 versus some other number, I think you have come to of -- 290. I think you're comparing the consolidated group employees versus the stand-alone entity, the standalone entity is 290. When you consolidate all our subsidiaries, then the number is 4,000. The net debt equity is very high 1.04. No, actually, it is very low. For a financial institution, our debt-to-equity ratio of 1.04 actually is extremely low. It could be different for manufacturing or a commodity company, but we are a financial services company, and the sort of average debt to equity for banks would be almost 8 to 10x. And for other NBFCs would be anywhere between 3 to 5x. So we would be one of the lowest debt equity and not highest in the industry. And this reverse mortgage -- reverse mortgage actually is a designed product for senior citizens in the U.S. for earning income, which is very different from loan against property. Loan against property is largely made for business reasons where people need working capital, SME specific working capital for their businesses and therefore, they pledge their offices or their homes to avail those facilities. So it's not like-to-like comparable. Dhruvesh Sanghvi. I think Dhruvesh, you've asked a lot of the same questions in our analyst call in May and I hope I had satisfactorily answered all of those questions then, but I will still answer some of these again, just for your benefit. So I think, yes, JMIB is very, very strong, but I think JM broking also is very strong. JM wealth management also is very, very strong. And I think in each of those businesses, we have done exceedingly well. Yes, we could be late to investing in asset management, but the results that we have seen in the last 6 to 8 quarters have been tremendous which speaks very highly of our brand strength, specifically in retail and HNI in India. Very few AMCs have scaled in equity corpus from less than INR 500 crores to INR 8,000 crores today in a span of equity -- INR 8,000 crores today in a span of 8 to 9 quarters. So I think very, very strong performance there. And on digital onboarding, I think, yes, we could have -- we can be considered a late entrant in terms of digital onboarding. But if you remember that pre-COVID, none of the digital companies were making money. And I wish I had a futuristic sort of anticipation that COVID would come. And after COVID, there would be a boom in Demat accounts in the country and that digital would completely go crazy. So I think if you see the kind of inflection that happened due to COVID in the online and the space of digital onboarding has been unprecedented. And there is no physical brokerage in the country who had thought of this or dreamt of this. Having said that, we are making very good steps. I think our product BlinkX is top class if you look at the ratings on any app store, it's the highest, It's higher -- it's higher than most other apps. And we are very excited about a slow and steady progress in terms of making sure we maintain that app rating. At the same time, we will see our inflection point sometime over the next year to 2 years, where this will be a very, very good sort of stable onboarding for online customers and a great place for them to be able to do business. At the same time, we've been seeing some changes from the regulator here, which are curbs on option trading. Very frankly, we'll welcome them because there is a bit of for euphoria when it comes to options and futures trading in the market and it needs to cool down. This would also increase brokerage rates by discount brokers across the board from October 1 and most discount brokers have publicly talked about that, again, which should help the business build of our digital broking. Currently, we are investing close to INR 80 crores to INR 90 crores a year in this business. We've done that over the last 2 years. And I think we'll continue doing the same over the next 2 years. On the asset management side, we've invested close to INR 70 crores to INR 80 crores in the last 2 years, and I think we'll invest an additional INR 35 crores to INR 40 crores this year and a similar amount next year. And we are very confident that these investments will turn into very strong scaled profitable businesses by the year 2027. Your point on employees is well noted, though I don't get this feedback, and I really don't know where you get this feedback from, but happy to take it off-line from you. And on the -- again, I explained the whole -- I explained the whole concept of why we are moving to a model which is based more on syndication and less on balance sheet risk as there are, again, some regulatory changes also in terms of increase in provisions and regulators not being comfortable with NBFC is doing land financing, which used to be almost 20%, 25% of our books. There are lots of businesses, which I explained in my May -- May quarterly call, half yearly call, which I think you can refer the call and you will get most of those answers. Yes. On a -- on a quarterly call, yes, we are moving to a quarterly call from this year, and we have a quarterly call scheduled tomorrow for 4:00 p.m. I'm sure you've got the invite. Now we come to Himanshu Upadhyay, you had some questions. Yes. So I've already sort of answered the question on the wholesale funding business. We are not exiting the business. We are actually just pivoting to a more syndicated model, where we have -- we'll have much lower leverage in that business, and we will make up a lot of the ROE in that business by syndication and fees. So I hope I have been able to answer that question from the earlier sort of explanation. Your question on if we aspire to reach the previous highs in wholesale business, what capabilities. We already have the capabilities. We do not need to rebuild or remodel the capabilities. We will only be adding more people on the syndication and distribution front, but the capabilities already exist within our firm. Yes, I already explained how the risk-adjusted returns have reduced. So you've got that answer. Question 5 is underwriting process. Again, the underwriting process does not change. As I mentioned on my many half yearly calls before that we have significantly strengthened our underwriting process, both for the distressed credit business as well as the real estate credit business, and those will help us tremendously in underwriting new deals for syndicating wholesale credit. How we are doing and what we are doing to scale fee and commission generating business, which is question 6? Yes, we're investing in people. People is most important. And I must say that there is a challenge. It's not easy today in a booming market to get the right quality of talent and also at the right sort of compensation levels, but we are doing our best. We have made significant progress in strengthening our physical as well as digital infrastructure. As I said, we're investing close to almost INR 80 crores to INR 90 crores every year in digital. And almost a similar amount if we take physical and asset management as well as physical for our retail broking and distribution businesses. So significant investments are already ongoing last 2 years, and as I said, will continue this year and next year. The company has set an AUM target of INR 6,000 crores in retail mortgage from INR 3,000 crores, but this target is for 4 years out. I think it's reasonable. There is a lot of growth in the affordable housing finance space. And we are quite confident that in the next 4 years, we should be able to achieve -- in 3 to 4 years, we should be able to achieve a INR 6,000 crore AUM target. IndoStar, I think IndoStar was not an issue on culture. They got a good company and they got a good business. It was an issue on valuation, and that is the reason why the transaction did not go through. Our -- we wanted a lower valuation as compared to the shareholders of IndoStar who wanted a higher valuation for that business. Are we interested in any inorganic opportunities? And what type of businesses? Yes, we'll always be open to looking at inorganic opportunities, but I must say that the multiples in the business on private transactions today are extremely high, and we will shy away from paying any premium or any significant premium for any business. As I said, we're already investing a lot in growing organically. And at least for the next 2 years, I think that will be our focus. We have seeded many other businesses like BondsKart and Dwello. Can this be of scale? I'm happy to report that Dwello has almost achieved a INR 30 crore revenue, very granular business, which has been built over the last 5 years. And for the quarter of June 2025, they have broken even with a positive cash flow and a positive profit, and we look forward to further profitability and scale in the business. BondsKart is a very small business, but a very important addition for taking bonds to retail India, and we'll continue investing in that. It's not a lot of investment. It's just a couple of crores in a year at max, but I think it's a very big differentiator. Dinesh, you had some hospital help. We will take it off-line. Celestine Elizabeth. I think ESG listing and score, I don't think we have any ESG listing internationally, but we will keep your suggestions and comments in mind. You talked about a demerger of some of our businesses. I think, as I said, the next 2 years, we are investing more in the asset management, wealth management, broking and investment banking space. And that will add a significant amount of scale to an already nicely scaled business that we have. And also, you will see the pivot on the asset management -- on the private credit side, where we move to a modest syndication based platform working with AIFs as well as other partner institutions who want to be investors in private credit. So I think it's really about consolidating that business bringing down our leverage in the wholesale business, scaling home loans and investing more and scaling asset management, wealth and investment banking. And I think it will be appropriate to see there is a demerger or organizational sort of structure change, if required after 2 years. And all I can say is that we will positively discuss it and view it at that point in time with the Board, and the Board will take the decision in the interest of the business at that point in time. But I think today, we will continue to just invest and scale these businesses more. Yes. Mr. Kotwani, you had a question on fees. I'm sorry to say that we do not disclose fees on our transactions. One is our clients will not like it; and second, it's competitive information. We don't want our competitors to know how much money we are making on what transactions. So we cannot disclose account-by-account fees. Then the stock options are all given at INR 1 in the holding company. And now we have a stock option plan for our subsidiaries, which is Home Loans as well as JM Financial Services, where we have well-planned broking and also the mutual fund, which is the asset management. And there's been a long request from all of our partners that all of our employees and the key management professionals that they want stock options, specifically in the businesses that they run and we've rolled out those plans for, as I said, all 3, wealth and broking, asset management and home loans separately in those companies. You had a question on the -- yes, so there's one more question on biggest vertical from the future -- for the future from Celestine Elizabeth. The biggest vertical will be our wealth management and asset management and broking business, followed by our investment bank. Then you have Anil Mehta, questions on international Board member. I think we already have an international Board member, unfortunately could not joined the AGM as he was getting married over the weekend. So it's a good reason to excuse him. But he brings a lot of international experience, both from an investment perspective as well as geopolitical perspective, his name is Navroz Udwadia, and he is from London. We have another board member in Roshini Bakshi, who's present here today from Singapore, who also brings a lot of experience of fund business in India as well as what she sees in the Southeast Asia and the broader Asia region. So we already have 2 members who are not based in India and add tons of experience on the international side for our business. How do you monitor intercompany transactions? Yes. All the intercompany transactions are monitored by our controllers group and all of them report into our group CFO, and he's kept posted on a regular basis on all intercompany transactions that happen. And the audit committee also looks at all the other company transactions on a quarterly basis and approves all of them. I think on the question on the challenges in the business. I think challenges for us have been last 4, 5 years have been recovery. As I mentioned earlier, that even our best of estimates of being able to recover from tricky assets over a 6- to 12-month period has become almost 24 to 36 months and a lot of senior management time including my time, Adi Patel, and many others has gone into managing the balance sheet and managing recoveries. And I think we're sort of at the fag end of it this year. Other challenges in the business always will be markets will always be how regulators think and how we should think in terms of how regulators want the business to pan out. And that risk is top of our mind. As you all know that we've had some action from RBI and SEBI. I'm happy to say that our teams are cooperating extremely well with the regulators. And we are hoping that very soon, we should hear some positive feedback from RBI on at least the ban on our loan against shares being lifted. IPO funding as a business has been discontinued. I think the format in which RBI and SEBI would want us to be in that business creates some kind -- some challenges in terms of being able to operate and we completely take on board the comments and suggestions from SEBI and RBI and we have respectfully agree to close down the IPO funding business. It was not a big contributor to us in that sense. It was an important business from acquiring new clients in the retail business. But I think we will use our digital mediums, both BlinkX as well as BondsKart to get more customers and try and replace that loss of new client addition through -- which is happening through IPO funding through our online sort of activities there. And your question on liquidity, I think we have a tremendous amount of liquidity. We have seen that liquidity plays a very important role in challenging times in India, and we have repeatedly seen over the last 6, 7 years that in terms of crisis, the only thing that it helps you with how liquid you are. And so we've always managed a lot of liquidity on our balance sheet. And even as of 30th June, our liquidity is almost in the excess of INR 3,000 crores. Yes, your question on how to improve shareholder relations. We are very happy to hear your thoughts. You can write to us, and we will evaluate the same. I think I've covered all questions. Thank you.

Members are requested to note the e-voting facility, which will continue to remain open on NSDL platform until 15 minutes after the closure of the meeting. I therefore request the members who are not voted so far to cast their vote. The consolidated results for remote e-voting and e-voting facility will be declared after receipt of scrutinizer report, and the same will be intimated to the stock exchanges and will be uploaded on the website of the company and NSDL. I now thank all the members who participate in the AGM through video conferencing and their cooperation for a smooth conduct of this meeting. The meeting will stand concluded at the end of 15 minutes from now. Thank you, all shareholders. Thank you very much. I close the meeting, except the 15 minutes from now, you can vote if you are not yet voting. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Dear members, as instructed by the Chairman, we request all the members participating in the AGM and who have not yet vote, cast their votes to do so in the remaining period of 15 minutes. Thank you.