JOST Werke SE (JST) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you very much, and good morning from Neu-Isenburg, here in our headquarters, and a warm welcome to our earnings conference for the first half year of 2025 and Q2 of 2025. We had challenging global markets, but JOST was able to continue its growth plan, driven by the merger and acquisition of Hyva that we've taken, but also driven by some local market share gains. The Hyva post-merger integration is fully on track. The first synergies are being implemented and the exit of the noncore cranes business has been prepared in the second quarter of this year. We have signed the sales and purchase agreements this Monday on August 11, 2025. We are also glad to report that we had some market share gains in agriculture in the APAC region and also in South America, where we were able to sign new long-term contracts with our agricultural OEMs. Market demand in Europe, Middle East and Africa was stabilized in the second quarter with order intakes slowly increasing. However, the demand in the U.S. slowed down dramatically due to uncertainties based on the tariff policy and the economic policy of the new administration. We've also been able to place a promissory note loan of EUR 320 million, and we're very happy with the attractive conditions that we were able to obtain. Let's go to the financial highlights, and they show the resilience of our business model. Our sales in Q2 were up 31% on -- mainly supported by the Hyva M&A, and that effect already excludes the cranes business that is considered operations that we will discontinue. The organic sales were slightly down by minus 3% compared to the Q2 of 2024. The adjusted EBIT grew 10% to EUR 37 million, and the adjusted EBIT margin reached 9.5%. This was supported by a solid operating performance and also had some positive effects on the classification of the crane business as discontinued operations. Hyva contributed positively also to an adjusted EPS in Q2 2025 offsetting the sales-driven organic decline of the earnings. And as a result, our adjusted EPS in Q2 2025 increased 3% to EUR 1.41 versus the Q2 of 2024. Our leverage calculates to 2.78x, which is temporarily above our target threshold of 2.5x due to the dividend payments that we have done in Q2 of 2025. We expect and target to be below the 2.5x threshold again by the end of 2025, end of this year. Free cash flow declined to EUR 5 million. That is mainly because of higher working capital, driving factors here are the Hyva consolidation, the growing activity level in Europe and also a stock increase to make our supply chains more resilient and to protect the supply chains, especially towards North America. Looking at the markets. The markets, as I said, were not supporting. You can see here that Europe, Middle East and Africa on truck and trailer were slightly positive compared to Q2 2024. However, on tractors and hydraulics, we had a contraction. North America contracted significantly based on the uncertainties, mainly on the tariffs. And APAC is, if you want to say, a mixed bag with some light in the truck business, some shadow in the trailer business. and tractor and hydraulics more or less around 0. Within that market environment, we operated quite resilient, and that is also because we have, meanwhile, a business model with a wide range of end markets and a wide range of products and customers. If you look at our sales by destination, we sell less than half in Europe, Middle East and Africa, meanwhile, and the rest is distributed quite nicely between Americas and Asia Pacific. And if you look at the applications, you can see that a little more than half is transport application and the rest is hydraulics and also agriculture where we expect some growth so that we will be beyond 20% also in agriculture in the future. So meanwhile, a very nice setup and a very resilient setup. With that, I would like to hand over to Oliver to give us some more details on the financial performance.

Thanks, Joachim. And as always, let's start with the regions. And within the 3 regions, I will focus a little bit more on the isolated second quarter results and then when coming to the group, focusing a little bit more on the full half year results. So let's start with EMEA. As Joachim pointed out, we have seen in the second quarter a slight uptick of the demand. The reported sales were increasing by 21%, which is, of course, driven by the M&A of Hyva. And all those numbers and all the numbers on the next slide, just as I noted in the beginning, are from continued operations, excluding the sales and results from the cranes business. And if we do this without the Hyva effect and at constant currency, we see an organic growth in the EMEA region by almost 4%. And that's the case because both transport and agriculture demand have stabilized a bit through the second quarter and the order book had gained some momentum. However, we need to point out the whole situation remains very fragile and basically changes also from time to time. So we need to really be cautious going forward in assessing that. However, the momentum is better definitely than the weeks before. And if we then go down to the EBIT, we also see that profitability compared to the second quarter last year has increased in the EMEA region. And this is driven both from slightly higher fixed cost absorption effects and also significantly by the categorization of the cranes business without discontinued operations of cranes business. That helps a lot. And by that, the margin increased then from 5.4% last year to 5.8% this year. Good signal is also that still it's the case that we don't use short-time work in the U.K. plants anymore, which should help us also in the weeks going ahead. Next page. If we then go to Americas, also here, Joachim mentioned reported-wise, the sales are increasing driven by M&A, so almost 8% reported sales growth. However, if you look at constant currency and without the Hyva acquisition, we report minus 11% decline. And this is basically driven by both transport and the agriculture market are significantly down versus prior year. The good thing is on the EBIT side, we still show with 11%, a very decent margin in light of all the headwinds that we have there, which are not only the tariff discussions and then the underlying market downturn, it's also the FX effect. As you all know, the U.S. dollar has weakened a lot versus the Euro's currency and that puts pressure on both sales and EBIT, as we pointed out here. So that's why we are still happy with 11.0% EBIT margin in this region. We also should note prior year's very high margin in the Americas region was partially driven by, let's say, a special situation for 2 reasons. One is we had a very solid agricultural business in the second quarter last year with very high shares of premium loader sales on the one side. And on the other side, we were benefiting from sharp decline in material prices, while selling prices still remained very high because of that material delay in material pass-through to the customers, we benefited last year as well. So overall, in light of the decline of the business in Americas, I would say we congratulate our teams there to a very solid contribution to the overall result. If we then go to our third region, which is APAC. Yes, again, it's a little bit of a mixed picture here. The reported sales grew sharply by more than 100%, which is driven by the Hyva acquisition. Hyva has a very strong position in China, but also in India. But also here, if we exclude the acquisition effect and the FX effects, we see a decline of minus 10%. That means although China as a single country region is doing better than we anticipated before, and that helps us also in the overall reported organic numbers. But we see a decline of the activities in India and also in selective other countries, especially in Australia and South Africa, where [ JOST ] has a very strong position, and so that's a little bit of a burden. When we look into the EBIT and EBIT margin in APAC, so go back, we see also almost a doubling of the EBIT numbers, which are driven by M&A. And despite the expected dilution of incorporation of Hyva, we see a solid EBIT margin of almost 14%. And this is not only driven by still a very good China business. We also see that the first synergies really are implemented and start to incorporate in those numbers. And this is especially true in the APAC region as you know, Hyva business is in APAC, the biggest one. So we would have expected anyhow that the first synergies start to realize there. So that's about the regions. Let's go to the group. Overall, we say a very solid result in light of all the economic topics around us here. So the sales from continued operations grew by 31% in the second quarter and for the full half year by 28%. If you exclude the M&A and FX effects, it's minus 3.2% for the second quarter and minus 6.5% for the first half year, which really say, especially in the second quarter, we did quite well and we were able to here and there, especially in the agricultural segment, benefit from slight market share gains, especially in the APAC region, but also partially in South America, as Joachim pointed out. So that helps that with an organic decline of only 3% in the second quarter, we believe we did quite well in the overall economic environment here. When we look into the EBIT and EBIT margin, the absolute EBIT increased by almost 10% and the margin is at 9.5%. That's partially driven by the classification of the Cranes business as discontinued. But even excluding that, we were close to 9% for the second quarter and for the full half year, around 9% -- 9.1%, which is a strong result, again, in light of the tariff discussions and so on and so forth. We still see overall that the direct tariff impacts are, let's say, as we always communicated, probably in the range of a mid-single-digit number. And we still strongly believe that within the second half year, we should compensate here and there. However, as we always pointed out, the indirect impact from economic downturn in the U.S., that is probably the bigger risk for us as a company. And we see materializing that the U.S. economy is really at the moment going down. We need to see what that will bring for the second half of the year. However, also in Americas, we see a very strong aftermarket at the moment and that helped to stabilize the margin at a very decent level again. Then an extra slide that you don't know from before. Just for your reference, we also show here the bridge for the regions and for the total group, how would sales numbers have looked like in case we would incorporate the cranes business as discontinued, which is not the case anymore, right? So -- and again, regarding the half year margin, we report 9.5%, excluding cranes and 9.1%, including cranes business, which is a very solid development for the first half year and then fully in line with our expectations that we had at the beginning of the year. Next page is then our usual net income and adjusted EPS bridge. Reported net income declined for several reasons to EUR 20 million. The biggest impacts here are, for sure, noncash and pure accounting items, so to speak, resulting from the purchase price allocation that we do with the Hyva acquisition. And on top, we have to incorporate special PPA items for 2025, driven by inventory step-ups and order backlog capitalization that we need to do, which for the full year will roughly amount to EUR 20 million. So there is a significant portion incorporated in those numbers. If we start from that EUR 20 million, add up the expense taxes and the finance result, we end up with a reported EBIT of EUR 40 million. Then comes this just mentioned PPA effects on top and roughly EUR 6 million of so far expensed integration costs, more or less 100% related to the Hyva integration, layoff costs, restructuring costs whatever we do there and fully in line of our expectation. We are then seeing an adjusted EBIT of EUR 73 million. And then we normalize the finance result and the tax rate ending up with an adjusted net income of EUR 46 million or EUR 3.06 earnings per share, which is exactly more or less the same like last year. And that underlines somehow that, yes, we see an organic decline that has a volume impact on our P&L. But on the other side, there is right from the beginning now a positive contribution of the Hyva acquisition into the full P&L. That's a quick update. I don't want to go into the details, a slide that has been shown also with the Q1 presentation. It shows the acquired assets and liabilities at their fair value assessment at the date of the acquisition, so 31st of January 2025. There have been some changes here and there because the valuation is still ongoing or was still ongoing after the Q1 reporting is now almost final. Two major topics have been incorporated, and you see then the result also in the goodwill position. One is we will start from beginning of this year to do a regular depreciation of trademarks, which will the Hyva trademark, but also the [indiscernible] trademark. The details are also laid out in our half year 2 report. And the other effect is related to the classification of the cranes business as discontinued operations. So we -- for that reason, we also had to anticipate the fair value and fair value adjustments of especially the inventory of that business unit, and that has been incorporated in those numbers. Besides that, it's just, yes, minor effects. So that was the balance sheet effects from the acquisition. If we go into the P&L effects, most of them are already described. We have expensed roughly EUR 14 million of new PPA charges from the Hyva acquisition and on top this roughly EUR 7 million inventory step-ups PPA that I mentioned before, fully in line with our expectation, slightly higher just because we have now incorporated trademark depreciation and I promised last time to give a quick outlook for the full year once these adjustments have been made, and that's mentioned here on the last bullet point on the right side. We expect now for 2025, a full year net income impact from the Hyva PPA of roughly EUR 28 million for 2025. And then going forward, 2026, probably around EUR 50 million. That's the basis of -- or based on the latest valuation status. It's almost final, and we shouldn't expect any further material deviation from that picture. Next slide. Coming quickly to cash flow and also after that to our balance sheet KPIs. Joachim already mentioned, free cash flow in the second quarter was depressed by working capital topics especially driven by a slight increase of the activity level in EMEA and also the incorporation of inventory that we had to secure in light of the tariff situation and safety stock discussions. For the full half year, it means still EUR 49 million free cash flow, which is still a conversion rate of 1.1 and therefore, above our threshold of 1.0. So we should be fine with that for the moment. CapEx ratio stays well below our target at the moment, 2.3%. We communicated that it could be in 2025 up to 2.9%. So also here, you see we are managing somehow also the situation. It's not that we are canceling, let's say, smart projects. Whatever we can -- whatever we need to do to improve our P&L going forward, we will do. However, in light of the economic activity and the fragile situation, we do a careful spending, that's for sure. And also when we look into the net working capital factors, we see that despite the situation I just was describing in the second quarter with EMEA and the safety stock discussions, we are managing a net working capital ratio of 17.5% at the end of the first half year, which is well below our full year guidance of 18.5%. So we should here be very safe for the year-end outlook. If we then go to our capital figures, we see ROCE decreasing from last year by 4.1% points down to 13%, again, fully in line with our internal models after the acquisition of Hyva and the dilution EBIT has an impact also here on ROCE. Nevertheless, our goal is, for sure, once the full synergy potential has been reached that we are back in our corridor, which should be above 17.5%. Equity ratio is for 2 reasons at the moment, depressed and has been gone down versus end of last year down to 21.3%. The big effect is the dilution and the financing of the Hyva acquisition, so the extension of the balance sheet. But on the other side, and as you all know, this was especially an effect from the second quarter, the devaluation of the USD versus the euro had a huge FX translation effect in our equity because we hold big positions in USD net assets, our own U.S. business, but also the Hyva business is denominated in USD. And that has for the full half year, an effect of minus -- almost minus EUR 60 million, just pure translation effect. So it's noncash, et cetera. However, it shows up in the equity ratio and has stand-alone an impact of almost 3.5 percent points. So without that, adjusted for that, it's almost 25% and then even slightly better than we thought. Initially, leverage, already mentioned by Joachim is at the moment at 2.78x, also in line with the expectations. We always see a slight uptick of the leverage in the second quarter, driven by the cash out of the dividend, nothing else this year, and we stick to our target by end of this year to remain below the 2.5x threshold. That's from my side. And with that, I hand over again to you.

Thanks, Oliver. So let's see how we see the rest of the year. Looking at the markets, going through it, Europe, Middle East and Africa, we see a slight market upturn like we've seen already in the Q2 for truck and trailer, slight contraction in tractors and slight uptick in hydraulics. So overall, I would say, for Europe, Middle East and Africa, slightly positive. In Americas, it will continue weak. We've had a very weak first half year, and we expect that the second half of the year will be more or less equally impacted by the uncertainty caused by the politics of the new administration, especially the tariffs politics. While in APAC, we see a little positive -- a few positive trends, so stabilizing and slightly positive outlook for the APAC markets. Based on that market outlook and based on a solid half year 1 performance, we're happy to confirm our outlook for the fiscal year 2025. The numbers that I will show here are for the continued operations. So sales will be up 40% to 50% versus prior year. Last year, we had sales of EUR 1.069 billion. Adjusted EBIT will be up 23% to 28% versus prior year. The same for the adjusted EBITDA. And you see the numbers of last year here with EUR 113 million for the adjusted EBIT and EUR 148 million for the adjusted EBITDA. CapEx ratio, we are targeting 2.9% of sales and working capital, we target to be below 18.5% of sales. So certainly, the outlook for 2025, including the discontinued operations also remains unchanged. And we -- I would like to add that we're probably at the lower end of that range right now because of the market contraction, but we're still very comfortable to confirm this outlook for 2025. So let's come to the summary. We believe we had a solid Q2 in the -- in a rough market environment, proving that our business model has become more and more resilient over the years. The Hyva PMI integration is well on track, and we're focusing on our core business and the Hyva core business to generate and to continue our profitable growth story. The disposal of the cranes business has been successfully prepared in Q2, and we've been able to sign it this week. We expect closing within Q4 of 2025. Slight upside potential for European, Middle East and Africa and also for our agricultural business. But certainly, tariff uncertainties will continue to affect Americas and the weak Indian market will also slow down the recovery in Asia Pacific. Our local-for-local approach, our strong market access worldwide and our high customer diversification limits the impact of those uncertainties, the tariff uncertainties and the shifts in regional demand. And so it's very confirming for our overall strategy. And as I said, we're happy to confirm our outlook for 2025. So with that, I would like to thank you for your attention, and we're open for your questions and remarks.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Jorge Gonzalez with Hauck Aufhäuser.

Yes. Can you hear me now?

Yes.

Perfect. I have a few questions. Do you mind I go by one by one?

Yes.

Okay. So the first time is on regards these long-term new contracts in agriculture. It sounds promising. Can you give us a reference of roughly of how much this can contribute next year and the year after?

Well, I'll tell you a little bit about the background. So for us, it's very confirming that our strategy to be a global Tier 1 for those global agricultural groups, be it CNH, be it AGCO, be it John Deere that, that strategy is being confirmed by our customers. So we were able to enter into long-term contracts. You can calculate the size of those contracts once they're all active as a low double-digit million number. But of course, there will be contracts running out and there will be phasing in. So I don't have a number, and I also would not like to share a number for the next year of what the new contracts will be. But we certainly see our ag business on a very good path and also on a growing path, as I mentioned, because of those long-term contracts and also because of an underlying market that we expect to come back.

Can we expect already low double digit next year? Or we should be prudent with the growth?

Yes, I would say you can expect that for next year.

Amazing. So then on Hyva, it will be very helpful if you can share with us more or less the contribution in adjusted EBIT, just to reconciliate the new divisions and to have a better idea of how the synergies are impacting already? Maybe you can give us the synergies instead.

Regarding EBIT, I think last time we set forward that the run rate was around 6%, something like this, which is more slightly higher than already last year. That has been confirmed in the second quarter. And if you just exclude then the cranes business on a continued basis, it's already above the 7%, probably between 7% and 8% run rate of adjusted EBIT margin. And regarding the synergies, they are starting now to be realized, right? So -- and I would still stick to the calculation that we set the run rate of 2025 should incorporate roughly EUR 45 million of [indiscernible] 2025.

Okay. Very useful. And in fact regarding synergies you were commenting I don't know why I thought that in the previous call, we commented about a potential of '27 could be the case?

Yes, yes, full year effect once realized. I'm just talking about the isolated effect in 2025 that is to be found in the P&L. We still stick to the range that initial target was above EUR 20 million. We somehow precise that last call to probably EUR 23 million or slightly more. I don't expect too much. There might be a slight impact downwards from the discontinuation of the cranes business because obviously, there's purchasing volume related to the cranes business. But still definitely the run rate once we have fully implemented all synergies should be above the EUR 20 million, EUR 20 million plus.

But that's size of the run rate at the end of 2026. So that has always been the communication...

So no changes here regarding phasing at the moment...

Okay. So the 20% is the run rate at the end of '25?

'26.

Also. Okay. Okay. Perfect. And on the aftermarket, there are a few comments that was quite strong in Q2. Can you indicate us more or less how much for the group, how much was for the group in Q2?

Definitely above 30%. And you might recap '24, it was around 27%, something like this. But I'd say, the very useful contribution here was that especially in the Americas region and there, especially in North America, it was in some months, not the whole full half year, but in most of the months, close to 40% even. And that then overall contributed to the overall group aftermarket share being jumping over 30%. But especially in the U.S...

Perfect. And last 2 on the outlook. So you commented that you were expecting the same trend to continue in North America. But this means H2 is going to be similar to H1? Or do you see a decline? Because looking to the production rates that some of these like FDR and ACTR are guiding for the second part, I believe that production rates are going to go down, but I don't know your view. You have obviously a better view than them. Are you expecting more or less same volumes in the second part in North America or some decline?

Well, you're right, the [ comments ] of our customers, they may be slightly down at this point in time. But I would say, overall, we are calculating that the second half year is more or less on the same level than the first half year.

Okay. Perfect. And maybe last one on agriculture. So '25 was a little bit below the initial expectations of initial recovery now because of the stocks being low. How do you see '26? I mean, is there any substantial change that invite you to be more positive for next year? I see some of the indices for the perception of the companies in Europe improving, although they saw some correction in July. So I was wondering how you see next year and how are the stocks or the dealers, is there anything you can share with us?

Yes. Dealer stocks are certainly being reduced. So dealer stocks are much more healthy right now as they compared to what they've been last year. And so new orders will translate into new production of tractors and also into new production of loaders much quicker than they did in the past because in the past, they would sell off the dealer stocks. So that is at a much healthier state. So I expect a stabilization for the agricultural business and in our case, supported with some market share gains, especially in APAC and in Americas.

That's it. Thank you very much, Oliver and Joachim and have a great rest of holiday.

The next question comes from Yasmin Steilen with Berenberg.

Can you hear me?

Yes, perfectly.

I have 3 topics, if I may. So first, on the portfolio pruning. So congrats with the disposal of the cranes business. That was really a very positive surprise. Is it fair to assume that the disposal is free of debt and EV should be in a very low double-digit euro million amount, just reflecting a significant discount to the EV multiples, for example, of PALFINGER? And does the disposal contract include any earn-outs or guarantee obligation? Or is it all set with the closing? That's my first question.

Yes. I can do this. I think your assumptions are quite fair. So we will hand over free of debt. And yes, EV is a very low double-digit number. And still at least we get a positive purchase price of a single-digit euro number, so equity purchase price, that's what we expect to be incorporated in the fourth quarter. Your question regarding PALFINGER, I would say that's probably a little bit of a difficult comparison because obviously, the cranes business unit isn't in the same shape like PALFINGER. That's why we sell them. And if you -- I mean, multiply 6x 0 or 10x 0, it's still 0, right? So we are quite okay. For us, it was more important. It was clearly identified right in the beginning as a noncore business unit. And to be honest, we are happy that with such an accelerated speed, we can now concentrate on the other 2 businesses that we acquired this Hyva acquisition. And then what the second question was?

How much earn-out...

How much earn-out? There is a portion of earn-out, and we will report this once the Hyva has been fully incorporated into the numbers. It's probably 60 -- probably 2/3 is fixed and 1/3 is somehow an earn-out or performance clause that single-digit equity value purchase price.

Perfect. Very clear. Then on Agri, you mentioned 4% organic growth in EMEA, but attributable to both Transport and Agri. What was the development at Agri stand-alone in the second quarter in EMEA?

In EMEA?

Yes.

7% -- around 7%.

Okay. Very encouraging number.

Somehow.

Yes. And I mean, you mentioned already that...

It's fair to say it's a very fragile situation as we, right? So it seems to be the case that at the moment for the farmers, the overall environment starts to improve, interest seem to be really at the bottom and probably are not falling further. So that gives certainty that we have reached the lower end of interest rates in Europe. Inflation is between 1.7%, now 2%. So it seems to be that the investment environment confidence at least is increasing. However...

And on top of that, I think one of the other reasons, especially in Europe was that the OEMs, the agricultural tractor OEMs were very rigid in their pricing, and they had very ambitious price positioning based on the cost increases that they've had. And I think they're more flexible in the negotiation right now. So that I think will also help the market to come back that the farmers are able, financing is getting more accessible and also there's more flexibility on finding a transaction price that both sides can live with.

Okay. Perfect. And maybe the last one on truck and trailer market in North America. I mean, you mentioned already that H2 should be kind of comparable to the first half. Could you share some color on the current trading or discussions you have with your customers with regards to extended holidays? Or do you expect -- how do you expect the business development after the summer holiday season? And might there be a risk for further cost measures to safeguard profitability if the business will deteriorate further?

Yes. So from an outlook, I would say the first half year, we had more or less weekly adjustments downwards in the call-offs that we've seen with our weak customers in North America. I expect that to be a lot more stable. They've now adjusted to a level that they believe in. And so I expect that we have a more stable business environment at a low level, similar to the level that we've seen in Q1 -- in half year 1. So -- and in terms of cost flexibility, I mean, we've always proven that we are able to adjust our operational cost and also to a certain extent, our structural cost to a certain level. We are certainly at the level right now where we -- it gets more and more difficult to reduce structural cost. But at the same time, we have the synergies that we already talked about with the Hyva integration, and that is also a synergy that we will find in all regions, and that will help us compensate some of that.

The next question comes from Nicolai Kempf from Deutsche Bank.

It's Nicolai from Deutsche Bank. Well done for a solid Q2. My first one would be on the guidance. And I think you've touched on it basically because the guidance assumes that H2 will be stronger than H1 in terms of growth rate. And I assume that this is partly driven by 1 more month of consolidation of Hyva and then the recovery of Europe as well as the APAC region, right?

I would say it's a fair summary.

Definitely. Yes, there is this technical effect from the acquisition, but also growth rates should be higher also because the comparables have been much lower.

That's the third part exactly. If you -- the comparable base from last year is much lower for the second half year than for the first half year. But those are the 3 effects that should be correct.

Okay. Got it. And then on the German infrastructure program, so far from the truck OEMs, we've heard that hopes are higher, but so far, this has not materialized in the actual numbers. So it's more like a story for 2026. Would you share this view?

Yes, I would share that view. That view has been changing. So -- but no, the view of the OEMs and of the industry has been changing. In April, when it was announced in May, there was a lot of hope and that -- then reality kicked in to a certain degree. I think right now, there is not too much hope that this will have a significant impact soon, but I'm sure it will, at one point in time, have an impact. So if you're talking about sentiment in the industry, I would share that view that right now, everybody is questioning on how is that actually going to impact that. So if you want on a positive spin, that's some upside potential because it's right now not reflected in the outlook that our customers are having.

Exactly, but I want to mention that again. Even our first guidance or the guidance that still exists issued end of March has never incorporated any effect from the infrastructure program. We were always a little bit cautious in saying, will this really have an impact in [ 2029 ]? Yes or no. And I think it's proven, really very difficult to see something here.

Okay. Got it. And my last one, I mean, I think the sale of the cranes business is appreciated. Any other measures we can expect or that you plan to maybe lower leverage at a faster rate?

In general, we are still in the process, let's say, of PMI -- of the 2-year PMI phase and part of that 2-year PMI phase is very clear on the long-term portfolio. And as you know, Hyva is not only signal producing the [ assets ] as well. But for the time being, there is no other thing on the table. We are doing smaller portfolio cleans up as always, also in the [indiscernible] world. That's probably the main focus for the next 6 months.

Yes. No, there's -- I mean, don't expect any significant changes in our portfolio right now. As Oliver said, we have continuous portfolio reviews. We've taken out some noncore products out of our transport portfolio recently. And we do that continuous update and review of our entire portfolio. But right now, with the business that we have and that we claim as continued business, that's a business we're committed to and that we are going to invest in. And on top of that, that's the business that we also need to generate the synergies that we want to generate. As we mentioned, the EUR 4 million to EUR 5 million that you would see at the run rate P&L this year and EUR 20 million that we have committed for the run rate end of next year.

Ladies and gentlemen, this was our last question. I hand back over to Joachim for any closing remarks.

Okay. Well, thank you very much. I think in a very difficult market, we were able to prove that our business model became more and more resilient over the years, and we're very happy that we could demonstrate that in the Q2 and also in the outlook that we have given. And we thank you for your interest and your questions, and wish you a wonderful day. Bye-bye.