Jupiter Wagons Limited (JWL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Jupiter Wagons Limited Q4 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Systematix Group. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sudeep Anand. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Abhirath, and good evening, everyone. Thanks for joining us today in the Q4 FY '25 and FY '25 earnings conference call of Jupiter Wagons Limited. On behalf of Systematix, I would like to thank the management for giving us the opportunity to host this call. Today, we have with us Mr. Vivek Lohia, Managing Director; and Mr. Sanjiv Keshri, Chief Financial Officer. I'll now hand over the call to the management for their opening remarks, followed by the Q&A. Over to you, Vivekji.

Thank you, Sudeep. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for joining the conference call to discuss our performance for the financial year ended March 31, 2025. I hope you have reviewed the financial documents that was shared earlier today. FY '25 has been a pivotal year for JWL, marked by a solid financial performance and continued progress across our diversified business segments, driving the evolution of JWL into a more comprehensive mobility solution provider. On a stand-alone basis, total income was INR 3,905 crores in FY '25, registering growth of 6.6% year-on-year. EBITDA for the year was higher by 11.6% to INR 548 crores. Importantly, as we have guided earlier, we have increased the EBITDA margin to 14.2%, up from 13.5% last year, and we maintained our position of industry-leading margins. Profit after tax has increased by 12% year-on-year to INR 373 crores, with a PAT margin of 9.6%. On a consolidated basis, we recorded a total income of INR 4,008 crores, an increase of 9.3% year-on-year, with EBITDA of INR 578 crores, higher by 18% year-on-year. The consolidated EBITDA margin has improved to 14.6%, while profit after tax was higher by 15% to INR 380 crores. Turning now to our broader business performance. FY '25 has been a year marked by strategic progress and operational momentum across all verticals of Jupiter Wagons Limited. We successfully launched commercial production of the JEM Tez e-LCV in Indore, marking our entry into India's Electric Logistics segment. This was accompanied by the inauguration of a state of art vehicle manufacturing facility at Pithampur. The facility builds for high localization supports, grounds our BEV manufacturing with the annual production capacity of 8,000 vehicles. The JEM Tez, a fully indigenous 1-tonne electric vehicle has been engineered for high performance and reliability, backed by deep industry expertise. A phased rollout across key metros like Delhi, Mumbai, and Bengaluru is already underway, supported by strategic partnerships. In line with our focus on clean and sustainable energy solutions, we commenced the production and supply of advanced battery systems to both Indian Railway and private clients. Strengthening our position further in this space, we have secured battery energy storage system orders as well as orders from leading players in the spokeless segments such as Godrej and Tugkraft, which reinforce our participation in India's evolving energy infrastructure. In our core Railway segment, we continue to demonstrate strength and market leadership. We have secured a INR 600 crore order from Ambuja Cement and ACC Limited for manufacturing and supply of BCFCM rakes wagons. Our subsidiary, Jupiter Tatravagonka Railwheel Factory Private Limited has also won INR 255 crore order from Braithwaite & Company, re-affirming our reputation for delivering quality and reliability products. Our Brake System division also delivered a strong performance, with key wins including a INR 65 crore order for brake discs and a INR 150 crore order for passenger segment brake systems. Among the key highlights of the year is the progress of our Orissa project, a transformational initiative in our expansion strategy. Through our subsidiary, Jupiter Tatravagonka Rail factory, we have acquired land in Khordha, Orissa, to set up a Railwheel and Axle Forging facility. The first private sector heavy engineering plant of its kind in the state. We are already awarded contracts for both the main equipment and civil work, and site development is progressing rapidly. We -- with the planned investment of INR 2,500 crores, the project has achieved financial closure, with a funding structure of 35% equity and 65% debt through a consortium of PSU banks led by SBI. We have already invested approximately 50% of our equity investment and advance payments have been made for critical equipment and construction packages. Once operational, the facility will produce 100,000 forged wheelsets annually, serving both domestic and international markets. These milestones from electric vehicles and energy storage to core rail infrastructure and heavy engineering, underscore our long-term strategic vision, our commitment to innovation and our unwavering focus on execution excellence. As we move forward, we remain deeply committed to sustainable future-ready growth, while capitalizing on emerging opportunities across mobility, clean energy and infrastructure to create lasting value for all our stakeholders. We are now open for questioning from the forum.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities.

My first question is on the execution for the Q4. The constraint on your wheels using out is the [indiscernible] FY '26? Or has the wheels situation impacted our Q4 execution, yes?

Yes. So thank you for your question. So definitely, the availability of wheels was constrained, which we faced in Q4 and even Q1 of this financial year, but we -- the expectation is that from railway should be in a position by middle of next month to regularize supplies as they have placed orders on global firms for supply of axles and they expect to receive the same by beginning of next month. So we are hopeful that the situation will stabilize. We have been focusing on execution of our private order books, for which, fortunately for us, because of our subsidiary, Jupiter Tatravagonka, we have been able to supply the necessary axles.

Understood. And the second question is, of course, given that the wheels situation is still plaguing us, what kind of wagon manufacturing one can expect in F'26?

So for FY '26, as I mentioned earlier, we have set ourselves a target to manufacture about 10,000 wagons. And we are confident that given that railway has committed to regularize supplies of wheelsets from mid-June onwards, we will be able to achieve those commitments on -- in the numbers. So hopefully, I don't see a challenge in terms of execution, yes. But if the wheelset position in future also continues to deteriorate, then there could be some revision in terms of our execution numbers.

Understood, sir. My last question on the Bonatrans CapEx, which...

Mr. Mohit, may we request you return to the question queue for follow-up questions. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Devarsh Shah from Sunidhi Securities.

Am I audible?

Yes, you are.

Yes. So I had a question like regarding the wheelset issue. So from -- in the past also, we have faced a wheelset shortage issue. So how is the industry or the Indian Railways trying to overcome it?

So unfortunately, for -- we have a very strong order book from the private sector. So Jupiter has been able to execute those order books without much of constraint. But from supplies when it comes to -- for the railway wagons unfortunately, the order is such that it complies us to use the wheels supplied by the Railwheel factory. So that is how the orders are structured. So we -- that is because of which we are dependent upon them for wheelset supplies. So until that is regularized, we will continue to have some constraints on that. But whatever we have given to understand from railways is that the position will improve very shortly.

Okay, sir. But just I had a question like regarding the infra, like in manufacturing the wheelsets. So how is Indian Railways or the private sector trying to capitalize upon the situation if we face such issue in the future?

No. So it's a very good question. And that is the reason why you are now seeing investments happening in the private sector to set up wheel manufacturing capacities. As you are aware that we are embarking on a substantial investment for wheel manufacturing capacity for 100,000 wheels. India today does import a lot of its requirement for wheelsets, and it does not have, especially on [Technical Difficulty] it doesn't have any substantial capacity. So there is a big gap today between demand and supply. And I think once our project comes online, I think we will be able to fill up this gap to a large extent.

Okay. Understood, sir. And lastly...

Mr. Devarsh, may we request you to return to the question queue for a follow-up question? The next question is from the line of Rohit Singh from Nvest Analytics Advisory LLP. Please go ahead.

Am I audible?

Yes, you are. Please go ahead.

My first question is on the CapEx that we are doing on the wheelsets, approximately 200 cr investment. So can you tell us like what kind of ROC we are expecting from this investment over the years? And can you compare it with the existing ROC that we are doing? So that is my first question.

So we are expecting an ROC of above 20% from the project.

I missed that. That's the number you...

Pardon?

I missed the number. About 20% or 25%, you said?

Above 20%.

Okay. And I think our current ROC in FY '24 was around about 30%, right?

Just one second. Hold on, I don't think it was about. It was about 17.2%, or 17.5% roughly. 17.5% and here, we expect it to be higher than -- so it's going to be higher than the current ROC, which we have been delivering.

You're expecting the attritional ROC from this project, right?

Yes, definitely. And typically, these projects are very high ROC projects. And as the exports keep on picking up in the future, the ROC position will definitely keep on improving.

Got it. And sir, secondly, on the outlook for FY '26. This year, we lagged behind our own sales guidance, particularly in the wagon side. So for the next year, how do you see the outlook, segment wise, if you can share with us like particularly focusing on wheelsets, brakes system, and our new initiative in the EV segment where we got delayed over the quarters. In fact, our peers are -- have been able to start supplying the things in the LCVs opportunity. So considering all these segments that we are targeting since last couple -- 3, 4 quarters. And particularly you have mentioned in the presentation as well, we started supplying the batteries as well. So all these initiatives collectively, how do you see -- what is the outlook? What is the revenue target would you like to give for FY '26 along with the margins, sir?

So see, in the railway -- to start with the railway wagons segment, again, this year in terms of the capacities and in terms of execution, it was -- we were completely on track to deliver the numbers that we had committed. But unfortunately, the wheel situation came out of the blue and which was something which was beyond our control. However, given that the railway is saying that the situation will be rectified sometime next month, we are pretty confident that if the wheel situation rectifies, we will be able to achieve the targets which we have set for the current financial year. However, if there is any future challenges on wheelsets definitely going forward, we may have to revise those numbers because as I have told you, that is something which is beyond our control. But we don't expect any future challenges in that front. On the -- on our own production of wheelsets, as you have seen that this year, we have -- our numbers have been higher than what we have projected. So we have done revenues of above INR 300 crores. And in the coming year, we expect these numbers to double. We are increasing capacities there substantially. And as you have seen that our order books plus our internal requirements are very strong. And it is a question of execution for us. So we expect that business to do quite well and in the years to come, definitely, it will be one of the most significant contributors to their revenues. Beyond that, on the brake business, as you have -- as I mentioned that we have already secured an order of about INR 150 crores for our JV with DAKO and about INR 60 crores for our JV with Kovis. We expect there also a large number of tenders which are due in this financial year, and it's expected in the next 2 to 3 months. So we expect this order books to become much stronger. So this year, we expect that on the big business, revenues will be fairly strong. On the e-LCV segment, we have already started delivering our vehicles. The response from the market has been very, very positive. And we expect to achieve sales of -- in the next 3 to 4 months, we expect to achieve an average sale of above 100 cars month-on-month basis. And again, on the battery side, as I mentioned in my call, that we are already working on the battery storage solution where, again, the -- we expect the market to be very strong for that segment. We are working with leading players there. We are supplying batteries for the Vande Bharat. We have secured orders from players like Godrej, from players like Tugkraft, and there are other major players which we are already in discussions with. So the battery business also looks very positive for us.

The next question is from the line of Jainam Jain from ICICI Securities.

So my first question is, are you expecting any large review orders in this year given that FY'25 has been devoid of any such orders?

So definitely, we are expecting large tenders to come from railways, I think, this year. But still, there is a substantial order book which is there to be supplied from -- to Indian Railways from the various players. So we expect the tenders to come on the later half of the year.

Okay, sir. And then on the private side, how are we seeing the demands and inquiries?

So private side, the demand continues to be very robust and strong. We have recently secured a very strong order book for container rigs. And if you've seen from our order book numbers, despite our supplies being consistent and railway not giving any new orders, still our order book continues to remain strong, and most of it is coming from the private side only. So private side, we don't see any challenges in terms of order books. And once the railway tender comes this year, I think for FY -- till FY '28, we expect our numbers to be very strong. And beyond that, it's very difficult to right now give any kind of forecast.

Okay. Sir, what is your market share in the private segment, private side?

On the private side, we enjoy a very, very strong market share now, and I think, again, very difficult to quantify in terms of percentage, but what I can say is that we are the dominant player in that segment.

The next question is from the line of Garvit Goyal from Nvest Analytics Advisory LLP. Please go ahead.

Sir, you mentioned a fair outlook for those segments covering the wheelset, the brake systems and wagons side subject to the supply not being an issue. So can you put a number, on an overall basis, what kind of growth are we expecting over FY '25 for revenues and what kind of EBITDA margin we are expecting? So that is my first question.

So as I have mentioned to you that in terms of the wagon production, we are looking at a target of close to about 10,000 wagons this year. But obviously, it's subject to availability of wheelsets. And other businesses, again, for me to give, especially on the EV business, for me to give any kind of numbers right now, it's too early. I think maybe a quarter down the line, it will be, I think, more prudent for us to give any numbers. The brake business, and as I've already mentioned on the brake business and on the wheelset business, we will definitely -- we are looking to double our revenues.

But sir, we are -- I think, if I remember correctly, we are looking for INR 8,000 cr to INR 10,000 cr kind of top line by FY '28. And to achieve that, we must be having at least a plan like...

So the will come in once our wheels project in Orissa is commissioned, and because that itself is going to bring in revenues of close to INR 3,000-odd crores. So if you look at our projections, a lot of that growth is coming through the Orissa project.

And what kind of revenue did we incur in FY '25 for brake system?

It was above INR 100 crores, and we are definitely looking to double the same.

Sorry, I missed the number. Above what?

It's INR 100 crores plus. I don't know the exact number, but it was above INR 100 crores, and we expect to double that figure in this financial year. So between brake and wheelsets, I think the revenues will be above INR 800 crores.

Got it, sir. And sir, you released an announcement... Just last question.

May we request that you return...

Just last question, sir, otherwise I think I will not get a chance. So you released an announcement regarding some labor unrest in one of your plants. So can you give the financial impact, which we will be incurring in Q1?

Yes. So unfortunately, there was some dispute on -- regarding wages for which we had to temporarily close the facility. However, now the same has been resolved, and the plant is now working at -- on full capacity. Again, in terms of the impact, I would say, because that was also a period where the wheelset supplies were very poor. So even if the plant was operational, our production would have been quite muted during that period. And also, there were certain maintenance -- annual maintenance which we needed to do urgently, for which we would have taken a shutdown of about a week, so we used that opportunity to do the annual maintenance. But as I have maintained and I'm very confident that the wheelset supplies resume. And if it is consistent from Indian Railways, we can easily make up on the loss of production.

The next question is from the line of [ Sahil Pathani ] from [ Strokes Capital ]. Please go ahead.

So I had a couple of questions. So by when are we expecting this new Orissa facility to be fully commissioned and operational?

So the axle line would be commissioned in this -- yes, by middle of next year. I think we expect the axle line will get commissioned. And early '27 is when we are expecting our wheel line to get commissioned.

Okay. Sir, my second question is that we've set an ambitious target of having revenues of INR 10,000 crores by FY '28. And this year, our revenue grew by 9.3% over FY '24. So are we going to maintain like a really high growth for the next 3 years, which is 35%, 40%? Or are we saying that this particular financial year, FY '26, would also be in a similar 10% to 15% range? And then once the facility is fully operational, we then are going to have like a vertical growth after that?

So I think the growth trajectory as it will -- I think a majority of the growth, as you can see, will come once this facility is operational because this will end up being close to about 30% to 40% of our entire revenues. So definitely, I think we will maintain a growth rate of about 10% to 15%. And once the wheel business is operational, then you will see a definite upsurge in the growth. And that is if you look to my earlier calls or the projections which you have made, and it has been consistent with that.

Got it. Got it. And just one last thing. On the EBITDA margin, since we've clocked about 14.5% for FY '25, so do we see the margins normalizing in this range? Or is there room for improvement?

So there is definitely room for improvement with new businesses kicking in, especially the brake business and the wheelset business. But yes, we don't see any kind of substantial jump over this EBITDA margins. I think that will only happen once the Orissa facility is fully commissioned.

The next question is from the line of Swanand Samant from Klay Group. Please go ahead.

So I just wanted to understand from you, your company's relationship with your European partner, Tatravagonka. The question is I just wanted to understand that right now, they being the largest investor in you, they don't act as a strategic investor, right? They are pretty passive. There is no technology transfer agreement between us, we are not a very big supplier to them right now. Plus being at 19% shareholding, they don't have a representative on our Board as such. So in future, in context with the Orissa plant, which is coming in, we expect that majority or good part of that revenue would come from the exports to them. But I just wanted to understand, we don't have a formal agreement to that as such. Do we think that right now, the relationship with them seems to be a very passive investor type, but that to change to a strategic investor when we kind of come up with the Orissa plant in maybe '27 end. So I just wanted to kind of get your understanding on that.

So first of all, they are not passive, they are classified as a promoter itself in Jupiter, along with my family. So they are not just an investor. They are also a promoter in Jupiter. So that itself is a statement by itself. Secondly, when it comes to -- we do have an agreement with them in place when it comes to offtake from the Orissa facility once the plant is commissioned. They are very actively participating in the entire construction phase and the technology phase of the project. Earlier, the exports to them were very minimal because as you are aware that in Europe, the wagons, which are produced, most of the bogeys and couplers and other items, which go into the wagon are fabricated unlike in India, which are cars. So there's a very -- there's a substantial difference in technology. So for us to do any substantive exports was just not possible. They have been helping us with a lot of designs on the private side. So it is not that they are not very active in the company. They are very active. And now there is an opportunity where we have a lot of synergies, which will arise because of the wheel project. And they are very gung ho on the project and so are we. So you will see the participation also go up significantly and definitely in Europe today, there is a shortage of wheelsets. They are looking at having a secure source of supplies. And so yes, this, I think, is going to be a win-win for both of us.

Just a follow-up on that, any particular reason why they don't have a representative on our Board being about 19%, 20% kind of invested in us?

No, not a specific reason. I don't see any reason. I think it's just the confidence they have in us. And in all probability in future, they will have somebody joining the Board very soon.

Okay. And the second question on the kind of availability or problem of availability of wheelsets, which you are facing right now. So I guess, quarter 3 also, some of your peers faced the same problem. It's not been resolved. I guess if I'm not wrong, somewhere in the last year also, there was a similar problem as such. So kind of wanted to understand what is the pain point here in terms of procurement of these by the Indian Railways. Is it that the only India is facing this problem? Or is it kind of something like a BIS problem or is it a vendor problems? Kind of if you want to -- kind of pinpoint on one particular region, what would it be?

Again, it is not -- I'm not -- for me, it would be wrong to comment on the challenges which Indian Railways is facing in terms of wheelsets, and not be very prudent to do that. I think it's a question best asked to Indian Railways. But what I can assure you is that we have been told by them that the situation will now normalize very shortly. I think that is the best I can tell you. In terms of the reason why they are facing those challenges, I think it is better to speak to Indian Railways directly on the same.

The next question is from the line of Akash Vora from Dalal & Broacha. Please go ahead.

So firstly my question would be, sir, what would be the consolidated margin outlook for FY '26 and '27, will be in the similar range or...

We mentioned that it will continue to be in a similar range. There could be a slight improvement. But however, we don't expect any substantial improvement from this year. But as revenues go up, obviously, absolute numbers will definitely improve.

Understood. So -- but once the e-LCV business starts, our margins would soon start depleting. Are we sure like -- or we'll be able to maintain the current levels?

Yes, definitely because it's not the LCV business alone. We are also there, the battery business itself has a substantial potential, and we are doing quite well in that segment also. And that business, because we are doing very specialized high-voltage applications, so our margins are very robust in that segment. So definitely, I think we are confident to maintain the margins.

And sir, secondly, my question was on the -- on our JV entity, sir, I think the -- most of our brake businesses sit under the JV entity. So sir, we are constantly incurring losses in this JV. So every quarter after quarter, we are posting a loss and in spite of having healthy order books and posting good revenues, why is that the case, sir?

No, I think the only joint venture we have posted losses is on the DAKO JV. Rest of the JVs, we have done, we have shown profits. And that is also because last year, we had mentioned also earlier that we are in the process of doing the localization. So -- but because the order books, we didn't want to lose out on order books and get to from a development to a Part 1 status, parallelly where we achieved the localization. So this year, I think you -- we are now very much ahead in terms of our localization. So going forward, there also, you will see change in terms of our profitability profile.

Sir, what do you mean the localization here? I mean...

Sorry to interrupt Mr. Akash. Would you return to the question queue for a follow-up question?

No, so and this, I can mention localization means that earlier, the import content was -- because these are very specialized brake systems, so a lot of the critical parts we were importing from Europe for the brake systems. And now we have localized a lot of these components. So once we localize, the cost definitely goes down, plus we save on the import duties also. So that itself will have a huge impact in terms of our margin profile. And the rest of the JVs or the subsidiaries are all profitable for us.

The next question is from the line of [ Sailesh Mohta ] from [ SEB ].

I've got 2 questions. One is on Railwheel and Axle project and another is on consolidated cash flow statement, which could be a housekeeping question. So I'll start with Railwheel and Axle project. I heard you saying that this project would be completely commissioned by financial year '27? And do you expect a turnover of INR 3,000 crores from this particular Khordha plant. So just a question on this as to when do we expect INR 3,000 crores turnover from this plant and at what capacity utilization level?

So we expect the same to happen in FY '28 -- '28-'29, I think that has been a projection where we reach up peak capacity and we are looking to close to about 80% of -- at about 80% of plant utilization.

At 80%, you will get INR 3,000 crores and this INR 3,000 crores will come roughly 1.5 years after the project is commissioned, right?

About a year after the project is commissioned.

About a year. All right. Question on cash -- consolidated cash flow statement. I was looking at this segment called cash flow from financial activity, where I find that the proceeds from long-term borrowing and the repayment of long-term borrowings, both are positive figures. Whereas I believe that repayment of long-term borrowings should be a negative figure, which was there last year. Could you please explain that or maybe I'm missing something here?

Just hold on, I will pass the line to our CFO, Mr. Sanjiv Keshri. Yes, he will be in a better position to answer. Just hold on for one minute.

We need to check that figure, how it is coming. So we will revert back to you on this. So we'll revert back to you on this in a couple of days.

Is the question correct? I mean you will be reverting back on what, because I have seen the total of [ 84, 150, 87 ]?

Question is correct, but we need to check what is exactly why it is like that.

Yes. So as CFO said, apparently from the face of it, it looks correct, but we have to understand exactly what is the reason behind it. We have to revert back.

All right, Vivekji. I have a few more questions, but in the interest of time and giving opportunity to others, I'm not asking them, how do I ask a question? Do I write to Mr. Keshri or Secretarial Department or what?

Yes, definitely, you can write to Mr. Keshri or the Secretarial Department. I assure you, you will get revert back from us.

The next question is from the line of Sachin, an individual investor.

Can you hear me?

Yes, Sachin. Please can go ahead.

I had a question with regards to the debt that we are taking, the 60% to 65% of debt for the new factory. I'm just wondering, with this new debt servicing that we have to do, are we confident that there won't be too much dilution for shareholder value in terms of profits, which is -- at the end of the day, we have to service it, and we are not seeing the growth that we probably anticipate to service a project like that. Will we really see the PAT coming down in the coming years is the question.

So I don't think -- I think taking -- on the contrary, if we had taken more equity, that would have -- the shareholder returns would have come down. I think the -- and then plus the debt is on the subsidiary. So JWL has no direct obligation on the debt. The debt is taken at the subsidiary. So I don't see a reason why there will be any impact, first of all, on JWL. Secondly, we are very confident on this project. And as you have seen that there is a substantial demand supply gap and our own captive demand for wheelset itself is so strong. I think about half of the capacity will just go towards fulfilling our captive demand. And plus with the strength which we have in terms of our European partnerships, as well as the demand, which is there from IR, which we -- and other players in the market, honestly, I don't see a reason why we would have any challenges in terms of supply.

Okay. Okay. And my next question is, I'm not sure if I heard that right. You said we are delivering around 100 vehicles per month in the e-LCV segment. Is that right?

No, I'm saying that we expect to achieve that number very shortly. We are -- so the market -- the response on the market has been very, very positive. And we are now in working towards consolidating our supply chain. So we expect very shortly in the next 6 to 8 months to achieve the number of about 100 vehicles.

Okay. So I'm just wondering because our previous guidance for the vehicles in this particular financial year...

Sorry to interrupt, Mr. Sachin. May I please request you to rejoin the queue.

It's the same question, sir. It's the same question, sir. It's on the same delivery of vehicles that I'm asking the question. Yes. So the previous guidance, I'm not sure if we're actually meeting the total 8,000 vehicle delivery capacity. We're still going 100 in a few months. Would we be able to achieve the previous guidance given in the vehicle manufacturing?

You are confusing with capacity and about deliveries. We have never mentioned that we will be doing 8,000 vehicles. We have mentioned that, that would be our capacity. None of our guidance I think have ever mentioned 8,000 vehicles. So you're confusing between capacity and in terms of the deliveries.

So after 6 months, we'll be doing 100 vehicles per month?

Yes, yes. That is what the numbers which we are targeting, and we are fairly confident on the same. But however, please don't confuse capacity.

The next question is from the line of [ Jahnvi Patel ], an individual investor.

Sir, my question was related to a shareholder perspective. Actually, I'm seeing a lot of value loss in your company and in my personal shareholder money also. So are you planning to do something for the shareholders at least?

But [ Jahnvi ], honestly, in terms of -- company has been fairly robust in terms of our performance and our guidance, and we have been issuing dividends also at a regular basis. Beyond that and all the projects which we have undertaken, and we have been very consistent with the execution also on those projects. So I think in terms of shareholder value, I think it's -- it all depends on a lot of external factors which are beyond our control. So it will not be fair for me to even comment on that. But however, we will continue to meet the targets, which have been said by us and I can assure you that company is on a very strong -- both in terms of revenues and profitability, it's on a very strong trajectory.

The next question is from the line of Rajesh Vora from Jainmay Venture.

Just wanted to get your perspective on how or do you plan to -- you mentioned battery business is a very good opportunity. So what's the 2-, 3-year road map for battery business?

Could you please repeat the question, the -- your voice -- I could not get you exactly.

Yes, in your mobility subsidiary, battery business is one of the good opportunity you were talking about earlier in the call. So could you give us some sense on the 2-, 3-year road map about how you plan to exploit that opportunity?

So again, to give right now, road map is very premature. But what I can say is that the market is growing at -- it's growing close to about 100%, 200% year-on-year right now. Just 1 segment, if you look at the battery storage segment, as you are aware that now the government is mandating all solar parks to have substantial capacities which would -- they would require to store that for evening use. So that market itself, I think, in India by 2030 is projected to be about close to 10 gigawatts. So you can imagine the size of that market. Right now, more than, I would say, 99% of that demand is met by -- from China directly. But always, definitely, there's a huge push for localization of the same, and which is also going to happen in a very rapid manner. So that itself, I think, is a huge addressable market. Plus as we reach scale in India, our exports are also going to -- as you're aware that Jupiter has been exporting also these solutions, and that will also keep on growing. The Railways segment itself, right now, we have already started with the Vande Bharat, but on the passenger coach side also, we expect a lot of orders to come for these batteries and for the Railway applications. So I think overall, definitely, there is a huge opportunity in this segment.

Interesting. And my second question on wheelset business. You mentioned that FY '29, when company operates at 80% utilization will be around roughly INR 3,000-odd crores of revenues. What sort of margin we could expect from that, in that year roughly? And what is the payback period for this INR 2,500 crore project? What is the payback period in terms of number of years?

We expect margins of over 20%, as I mentioned. And I think the debt repayment is over 12 years.

10 years.

Over 10 years. Sorry, it's over 10 years.

Okay. Okay. And we'll get our money back INR 2,500 crores in terms of profits, would be what, 5 years, 4 years, 6 years?

Around 5 years roughly.

The next question is from the line of Devarsh Shah from Sunidhi Securities.

Yes. So basically, I was seeing the figures of axle. So in this quarter, it was 24 against the previous quarter of 1,498. So what is the reason behind that?

See, the reason being is in the previous quarter, we must have sold loose axles to Indian Railways. And this year, the sale has been more on this quarter, the sale has been more on wheelsets rather than the axles. So the axle was part of the wheelsets. And that time, loose axles must have got delivered. So it depends on which order book is getting executed on in which quarter. So it's -- I think it's because of that.

Okay. Understood, sir. And second question is, like that is a speculation like because of the wheelset shortage issue, this time, the government had kept a flat budget for Railways. So if we are -- if you see the recovery in the second half, then can we expect a raise in the Indian budget for railways?

This is a question, I think it is to be asked to the government, I think we -- to the policymakers. But definitely, the budget will not kept flat for shortage of wheelsets. I can assure you that. The government is very, very positive on the Railways sector. The freight business has been growing consistently. They expect the freight business to grow further, and that is one of their focus areas. So definitely, we will -- and the government is investing a lot on the track infrastructure itself. So definitely, in the future, we will see a strong momentum in this segment.

The next question is from the line of Jainam Jain from ICICI Securities.

Sir, my first question is out of 8,700 wagons we supplied during FY '25, how much was supplied to private segment?

Just hold on. The private segment -- the supplies, how much was supply. Unfortunately, the number is not readily available with us, but if you write a mail, we'll share the same with you.

Okay, sir. And sir, actually, I missed out the answer to the earlier question asked by one of the participants, like what the guidance we have for FY '26 in terms of revenues and margins?

So again, as I've told you, margins will be similar. There will be some slight improvement in margin, but not -- nothing substantial. We are already, I think our margins are the leading in our segment. In terms of revenue guidance, again, as I mentioned, that we are targeting to achieve close to 10,000 wagons in terms of revenues. But that all depends on the improvement of supplies from Indian Railways for wheels, which we are fairly confident will happen. So again, it is subject to that. I think in terms of guidance would be better, I think next quarter, if -- we'll be in a fairer position once the supplies improve to give substantive guidance in terms of revenues. But definitely, we expect the revenues to be -- to improve over next year.

Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, that was the last question. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

To conclude, FY '25 has been a year of solid progress and execution across all fronts. With the foundation firmly in place, the start of FY '26 is already looking brighter. We look to build upon this momentum and drive sustained growth through the rest of the year. Thank you for your continued trust and support. We look forward to updating you in the coming quarters. Thank you.

On behalf of Systematix Group, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.