Kaiser Aluminum Corporation (KALU) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome back to the GS Metals and Mining Conference. My name is Emily Chieng, and I head up the North American metals and mine research effort. I'd like to welcome you all to our next fireside discussion today with Kaiser Aluminum. Joining us is Keith Harvey, President and Chief Executive Officer. Thanks, Keith, for joining us today.

Good afternoon.

As a reminder, before we get started into the Q&A, I'd like to remind investors to feel free to submit questions through the ask a question button on the top right-hand side of your screen.

So let's get started. Keith, you certainly operate in slightly different end market or sort of a different pocket of the metals and mining industry than some of your upstream peers. You're a downstream aluminum processor. And so a lot of your key end market exposures are the packaging and auto and aerospace industries. So maybe to kick us off here, I'd love for you to talk us through your outlook for these various end markets? And maybe let's start with aerospace, which is an era that Kaiser has historically been very much involved in. Where are we in the destocking cycle? And are we towards the end here? Global travel is certainly picking up pace now, and should we see that as positive rate across for your order books into the next 1 to 2 years?

Well, good afternoon, Emily, and thank you for having me. Aerospace, a good place to start, historically one of the largest markets inside of Kaiser. We are starting to see components of that returning. We've said over the last year, 1.5 years or so, we believe the target that we're looking for is to return back to the 2019 record year that we had. We believe we're on that path forward. We believe the trough was the late last year, the fourth quarter, we said that this year would be slightly better quarter-over-quarter. We've seen that. Our shipments were improved to roughly 31% or so, more than the second half of 2020. We expect that to continue. We see 2022. We've got visibility now in that path, declarations by our customers. we should see some significant expansion beyond that in '22. And so that's a market that has taken its [indiscernible]. There's been, obviously, the large commercial jet, has had a large position that's been blocked over this period of time, but we're starting to see a resurgence there. Boeing appears to be getting the inventory line back in place. Airbus is still very bullish on single-aisle builds. And so we believe that we're on the road to recovery. We think -- from a restocking perspective, we think that we're not far from the end there, perhaps another 6 months to a 1 year. But again, I remind you, we have our declarations already. We know what the expectations are, and we've had strategic dialogue with those folks through the end of the decade. So we do see the markets returning. We see a normalization recurring again past that period of time. And so we think that's going to be very strong. On the business jets, we've seen a V-shaped recovery there. So we're starting to see strong demand back to where things were. There's a 2-year backlog on planes on the business jet side. So that's recovering very nicely and will be there prior to the commercial jet. And of course, defense has been very strong, somewhat impacted by supply chain disruption as most of us have been. But we think it still will be a very strong year. We think next year will be better and that, that will continue. So we see the recovery underway.

Fantastic. And then when you think about what else you're seeing aerospace, OEMs, are there any other idiosyncratic challenges specific to Boeing and maybe the difference between sort of wide-body and narrow-body that you're seeing that could be any impact to this end market for you?

Well, it's a great question there. Our products basically get used across the platform. So whether the single aisles or the wide-bodies are running, our products are applicable to all of those platforms. Now obviously, the single aisle is really the metric that most judge the health and well being of that industry. We are seeing the recovery there. It's good news that Boeing is starting to clear the deck on the MAXs that are sitting there that were finished goods inventories. They're back. We believe that their build rates will continue to go up. We believe -- I think China is the last holdout on requalifying the MAX, that appears to be close coming in the near future. So I believe we'll be back underway there and again, back to 2022 with continued recovery.

Great. That makes a lot of sense. And then maybe shifting gears into the Automotive segment, it's a little bit smaller for you guys, and I think you operate predominantly in the automotive extrusions business. Maybe can you talk a little bit about exactly your exposures here, how should we expect to see demand for this particular set of autos products? And when should we start to see that improving, given it's been a fairly challenging last couple of quarters with the semi shortages?

Well, thank you. 2020 was a challenging year. We felt that the recovery was strong. We have a number of platforms, new programs. Of course, we're working on those 3 and 4 years out. And the demand was there. Of course, COVID changed our outlook in 2020. Moving into '21, our expectation for the year, and we -- these measurements are in value-added revenue as we're comparing them, we felt we were going to be up 35% to 45% on the programs that we had in place and that we're launching in the year. We obviously didn't achieve that. The last couple of quarters have been very challenging. Even with that, we still expect to be up 15% to 20% year-over-year. So we still see great demand, pent-up demand. We don't believe any of these programs have been canceled. We believe they've moved to the right. And then with continued electrification underway, which requires even more lightweighting. So content will continue to be king. We expected the build rate. North America to be around the $16 million, $16.3 million. It's going to end up probably below $13 million for the year. So that multiplier of number of builds is impactful to us, but we're really confident in the continued growth here. We've looked at a long-term 5% to 10% type CAGR growth for us. Certainly, will be stronger as demand and capacity comes back on, we think '22 will be a much stronger year than we've seen in the last 2.

Understood. And then specifically, just maybe digging a little bit deeper on how sort of Kaiser can benefit from increased demand for EVs. I know you talked a little bit about the lightweighting there. But specifically, how do you see Kaiser becoming more and more of a beneficiary of this, with your products and how that sort of -- where in sort of the vehicle does that sort of fit in?

Okay. A lot of our applications. So one thing about an EV versus the combustion engine that they look to be replacing, the same demand remains on the safety requirements, structural components, crash management systems. So our programs that we're on will be continuing in those areas, antilock brake system, the applications, the -- and so forth chassis and structural type components, which we, also, is a large component of our continued growth. We certainly see those applications continuing on those types of vehicles. So a lot of those capacity. Of course, the battery box, which we talk about quite extensively, a lot of different applications and process uses are underway to develop the best utilization. Some of our competition are utilizing sheet, stamp sheet type applications. With us, we're looking at multi-void hollows, very complex shapes. But their integral is heat sinks, but they're also looking at running conduits for electrical, and they serve a number of purposes. So a lot of that work is underway with the Tier 1s that we support and develop. And so we believe that there will be really different applications for all of those types of products and processes. So with that type of content growth and of course, we're still understanding that it's about a 30% penetration on electrical vehicles. By 2030, we just see continued growth in then that segment of the market.

Understood. And then maybe lastly, on your newest end market that you've just recently ended, which is the packaging market. So maybe talk us through your strategy around why Kaiser decided to gain exposure to the packaging -- or regain exposure to the packaging market? And perhaps your outlook for packaging and how you're looking to further grow in this segment here?

Okay. Yes. Kaiser had actually been looking at the packaging market for the last couple of years. We have known a number of the large customers over the years. Of course, we exited in the early 2000, but we were in there -- in that industry for the -- in the '80s and '90s. We were intrigued with the demand, the sustainability, driving the increased usage of aluminum and that type of products. We always like packaging. It seems to be countercyclical to the markets that we currently serve, the auto, aero and general engineering. So we like that really smoothing that consistent EBITDA stream that those product lines and those businesses generally drive. But with that, we've always -- we've been looking for a number of years of a business that fit culturally and was very compatible with what we do. We found that in Warrick. We love the organization. They have a product line. They've been supplying those products for over 50 years. Their customers love their ability to perform. The customer satisfaction metrics are very high there. And then what we also saw, Emily, we saw a great opportunity to follow along Kaiser's philosophy into being able to find a business we understand, to be able to differentiate that product in that marketplace and then to really drive operating leverage in that business and drive value for the business. And so what we saw early on in the due diligence, there was all of that. We saw an opportunity. We have a good bit of our business there that is focused on coated products. Coated products going to beer type products, live and tap type applications and also in the food side of the business, the food containers. And with that, a lot of that is utilized the coated capability that Warrick is a market leader inside of. We quickly saw that an opportunity not only is there a deficit and growing demand for products for body sheet, but also for the coated products. So we quickly initialized an investment there to increase the output on the coated product. and we've called it at a great cycle that we're currently renegotiating a number of -- all of those programs and it's a great opportunity for us to look at price, look at mix and look at ways that Kaiser could continue to differentiate our position versus those others in our space.

Maybe just as a follow-up, I think the Warrick acquisition that you've made, you mentioned that it's a little bit of a differentiated product there. You're a leader in sort of the coated products. But maybe are you able to help us quantify and understand exactly what sort of the numerical, perhaps margin benefit that you may be seeing? And as you do renegotiate those programs, do you expect that sort of the additional value-add processing can get you sort of a better outcome relative to what has historically been seen in this market?

Well, I believe and it's somewhat telling in the -- in how we look at our business long term, the entire portfolio of the company. As we look at packaging, I believe, in the packaging front, and this is around the mix, the price and the focus, differentiation that we can provide, I believe we can deliver from a packaging perspective, the historical margins that we were able to achieve on the rest of our business. And so what we believe that long term, we believe that this portfolio is going to be able to deliver roughly $2 billion in value-added revenue, and we'll have margins in the mid-20s up to the 30% in our portfolio. And I believe packaging, we can get there with the direction and strategy that we're deploying in that position. So that should help size the price there.

That makes sense. Maybe shifting gears a little bit, and we will certainly come back to packaging and another hot topic, which is recycling. But I wanted to touch a little bit around cost inflation, that was certainly a topic that was top of mind at your last quarter earnings call there. Let's start with magnesium. It feels like that was a topic that blew up very quickly and has since subsided. But maybe give us a status update of what you're seeing in the magnesium market, availability, pricing, it seems to have a little moderated, but can you give us a lay of the land of what you're seeing, both in the U.S. and China?

Sure. We were unlucky enough to be the first out to talk about that particular issue. But the confluence of events around China, the cutting back their supply at a particular -- that particular time and then we had a large U.S. manufacturer declared force majeure, and that caught us a little bit by surprise. In most of our businesses, we diversify the supply base. We've put hedging programs in place and have done so. We were in the position of bringing in Warrick under this current period. And unfortunately, that force majeure supplier was a major supplier to Warrick. And so we've been working with that supplier to understand, and we believe that we're on the road to recovery there. However, there was an impact. It was part of our fourth quarter outlook in our earnings call, saying that we believe that there's going to be further implication in that period of time that gave to the outlook that we said similar to the third quarter type results, but the business -- the issue remains fluid. We do believe that there's -- that's abated. We saw prices that might have been somewhere around between $2 and 3$, really jump up to $6, $7 a pound, up to $10 a pound, to give just some area of magnitude of how that market really gestated itself. We believe that that's going to abate. We believe that, that will be behind us. There will be some short-term implications there, but what is really helpful for us on these and other inflationary cost, Emily, we have provisions in all of our contracts, in every product line, including specifically packaging, in which we can pass these costs through. And it's -- and generally, a lot from the actual costs, we can move these through. So there's -- some can be a lag and when we can recoup some of these, but I'm very confident we're pushing -- we'll be pushing these through. We're having dialogue with customers or perhaps how we may speed up that recovery somewhat. But we also -- even on our transactional business, we have the ability to pass these and other alloy constituents through. Copper has had a significant rise, of course zinc and silicon and others. So we have methodology to move these costs through to our customers. Now we've also been working on significantly diversifying the supply base, making sure that we have qualified suppliers so that we're not impacted by any one supplier moving forward. And so I think a good bit of it's in the rearview window. We have a little bit more to go through there. But I think, as we get through this further, as you brought out earlier, I believe that we'll be able to ride this out and it should become more of a short-term issue.

Understood. So it sounds like maybe 4Q will have some impacts, but going forward into the next year, probably less of an issue really and something that we probably may not discuss in the next year.

I hope not.

Maybe sticking with that theme though, I think something that has not been as necessarily transitory has been some of the supply chain and labor cost impacts that we did see in the third quarter. Maybe talk us through how some of that has actually maybe alleviated. I know you've probably got more efficiency out of the new label workforce that has since started. But talk to us about how those are tracking? And again, how successful you've been with passing those sort of noncommodity types of cost inflation through?

Certainly. Well, staffing was one of our biggest challenges in the -- especially, in the second and the third quarter. Typically, our business philosophy is, as our business goes down, we react very quickly. We reduce our cost for us and all those costs associated. And then we'll bring them up at the appropriate time. Unfortunately, this time, we did not anticipate the challenge in refilling our positions with all the challenges in the marketplace. We had the COVID reemergence and then the -- really the -- we believe that were additional funding that was coming from the federal and the state governments that gave incentives to actually not go to work. So we believe we lived through those. We actually hired in the third quarter, roughly 8% to 10% of our workforce back. So with that -- that's approximately 275 or so people. With that came a lot of time, a lot of training that's has taken place. We'll still have training underway into the fourth quarter, but that's beginning to abate as well. For the most part, those issues, we believe, are behind us. We're still being challenged with perhaps mandates and other things that we're dealing with. But we think the bulk of these issues have been behind us as well as the other inflationary areas that we've talked about, I actually have a lot more confidence that our team have been really successful in passing those costs through. The markets have been fairly strong other than the commercial aerospace, as we discussed. So we've had -- we've got the vehicles in place to pass those through and are doing so. And those are being accepted, and they will continue to be. So we'll recoup those positions, and I'm really -- it really stands out that the caliber of your contracts, the provisions that you allow for these types of events. So we'll be moving those through, perhaps a little lag in some areas, but confident that we'll be able to move most of those through.

Got it. That makes sense. Maybe shifting gears now into capital allocation. Can you remind us what your capital allocation strategy is? Certainly, you've got a dividend program outstanding, but maybe share us how you think about balancing organic growth? I know there's a lot on your plate right now, inorganic growth as you did with Warrick, dividends and other shareholder returns.

Certainly. This has been a long-standing philosophy inside the company. We prioritize our capital spending in these 4 buckets. We look at organic growth first. We believe those are have been fairly plentiful. That's an example of that are the 6 expansions that we've done at Trentwood over the last 10 to 12 years. So that's our #1 priority. Number 2 is inorganic growth. So that's M&A activity, of which we just pulled the trigger on there in late last year about this time with Warrick, but we've also had other connections that we purchased white spaces that we filled within the company over the years. And then we look at the dividend, thirdly, support of that and the focus. We've been able to deliver that through these challenging last 2 years to actually grow that substantially over the last 2 years. And so that's a strong part of our portfolio and our outlook. And then finally, if there's -- if we've secured those 3 above, we'll return it to shareholders, repurchase of shares to shareholders. If you look at since the business -- since 2007, we've put roughly $2.5 billion back to work in those 4 categories. We've put about 60%, 65% of that back even -- fairly evenly between the organic growth and the inorganic growth, the acquisitions that we've made. And then about 35% of that has gone into the dividends and share repurchases. So a fairly balanced portfolio and a use of that capital and focus, and we'll continue to use that going forward.

Understood. And maybe probably should have mentioned that the balance sheet is also something that we'd like to look at. And obviously, after the Warrick acquisition, we did see net debt step up there. But how should we think about how Kaiser sort of steadily executes and deleverages over time?

Well, we believe in having a very secure and understandable balance sheet and activities toward that. So as most companies, as we started to go through into the COVID period, we really amped up our balance sheet. I think we had over $1 billion at 1 time just to be able to withstand anything that could come, but we've also known in our past that these times provide opportunities in there. And so we certainly wanted to be prepared to act upon something that came our way. A perfect example of that is our acquisition of Warrick last year. And so we were able to fund that from the balance sheet. And then our focus there today, by the way, a comparison there, we have about just slightly under $700 million on the balance sheet, a good bit of that in cash and cash equivalents, is roughly half of that. And so in a revolver that we've not -- basically not touched. So we feel we're still staying with our principles and having a very secure balance sheet. As far as leverage goes, our focus, we believe our business should have a 1.5 to 2x multiple on the debt. And so we obviously went above that with the acquisition [indiscernible] mechanization to go above that. But we have to have clear line of sight in the strategy with which to return that within 2 to 3 years. We have that with this acquisition. We stated that we believe to be at 2x debt, again, backed by 2023. And so the balance sheet, the dividend, all that, the rigor that we've put into this, it's in play today. It's part of what makes Kaiser who we are, and it comes into play in every investment decision and every move that we make.

And maybe just following up on the Warrick and M&A theme. Obviously, you're deep in the integration process as we speak. But as we continue to think about M&A, is that something that is sort of closed off in the near-term while you focus on this? Or your door still open and you're running the ruler on opportunities that do you maybe turn up on your front stub?

Well, I would say that we'll remain open, but we were looking for this type of acquisition for the last probably 15 years. So we're fairly picky with what we'll do. It has to be something we know. It has to be at the right price, so forth. It has to be something that we can differentiate and has to be something that we can increase the value significantly. We found that with Warrick. I really like the markets that we're in right now. I believe there's strong secular growth opportunities in almost every one of the markets we serve. For now, we see really good organic growth opportunities, our #1 priority, if you recall. And so we're going to move on those with respect to our obligation to the balance sheet and manage that. So we'll be very rigor in managing through that. However, 2023 will be -- we expect to be back in a very strong position. And certainly, if something were to come along of the caliber of Warrick, we would consider that. And meanwhile, we have plenty of opportunities on organic growth. We've talked about Warrick on that. We've just lost $150 million investment on the roll coat. But we've also got an investment, another expansion on the shelf for our Trentwood facility of $225 million. And we'll be prepared to pull that trigger when all the sites lineup, if you will, and we're comfortable that it's the right time to launch such an investment, which is backed by strong commitments from customers.

Got it. That's helpful. And I do want to come back to your organic growth projects there? You touched on the new $150 million roll coat line at the Warrick facility. I know earlier in our conversation, you talked about the potential for that facility to ultimately achieve margins of sort of the mid- to high 20% range, somewhat close to the rest of your portfolio. Does that include this new roll coat line? Or is this sort of icing on the cake there as that comes online?

Well, that role coater is a significant component of executing the strategy that we have in place. We see -- the market is in a deficit on body sheet, but it's definitely also in deficit on lid tab and the food type products. So we have a strong market position there. And we believe that with the Warrick facility itself, it's very similar to what we had at Trentwood. We have strong capacity and monumental investments upfront that have significant capacity that they can deliver. The investments we're looking at are on the finished side of the business, which are generally the lower cost operating or investments that you can make. But the roll coat is the first step that we would take towards executing the strategy that we really envisioned for that business. And if we had it earlier, we would have done this 2 years ago. So we're a little behind, we believe, and our customers are anxious. They're willing to lock up long-term agreements here. And the iron is hot, so to speak. So we're judicially moving through that, and it's the first of a number of steps we intend to take.

Great. And then maybe moving to the Trentwood facility, can you perhaps talk a little bit about the sort of the moat that you have built with the quality of the product that does get produced at Trentwood, and how the Phase 7 expansion project, what that continues to add, whether that's capacity or capability?

Certainly. Well, we had Phase 7 getting ready to launch. We actually had talked about it. Jack talked about it -- Jack Hockema, a couple of years ago. Then obviously, as things went the way they did, we pulled that back. But it's engineered ready. It's on the shelf. We know the moves to make on that. We believe that, that another expansion there will add an additional 25% capacity for us in the heat-treated products that we currently enjoy. Part of that investment is also though, for quality. Part of it will be for efficiency gains. And so that's on -- that's well laid out. We'll be launching some new products, even stronger performing than the current KaiserSelect portfolio products. We've been talking with our customers about it. They're excited about the opportunity and what that can bring to them. And so that's ready to execute. I might also add, we've got Phase 8 and Phase 9 sitting on a shelf as well when the market dictates such an investment to take place. So really focused on continued growth in the aerospace and general engineering type products in the marketplace.

Great. So maybe give us a sense as to when we should actually start to hear about Phase 8 and Phase 9 being discussed? What kind of demand should we expect from both the general engineering and aerospace industry? Any sort of growth rates that we should see, timelines that we should expect for those?

It's been a really interesting last, I guess, 4 quarters in a row now with what's going on with the general engineering side of our business. Obviously, with the supply chain disruptions that have hit every manufacturer in the country, probably the world, a lot of people are rethinking their supply situation. And what we're seeing is a move towards reshoring of having that domestic source closer -- shorter supply chain, if you will. And so it's been a little difficult to really parse that out from the restocking that's going on, but we've been talking with a number of our customers and they believe that it's -- that there will be a big change. We've historically looked at that market growth as a 1% CAGR. But I can tell you that even with a strong 3 quarters out of last year for general engineering, we're going to be above that by 25% of value-added revenue in 2021. So we've seen strong, obviously driven by reshoring and restocking and general demand. So we believe that, that will continue, though, there's a preference to that. So a good bit of that capacity is going to be focused on retaining that general engineering type opportunity. And then as it relates -- as it relates to the aerospace piece, again, we're back to and in speaking with the -- our customers. We believe that the recovery here is measured by 2019 levels, will be back in the '23, '24 time frame. Once we're past that, we believe -- and again, we're talking with those customers up to the end of the decade and beyond. We believe we'll be back to the more normal the 3% or 4% CAGR type growth. And of course, as that starts to grow and we have the GE, when it's appropriate, we'll look at launching those Phase 8s and Phase 9s.

Got it. And then maybe shifting towards a more fun side of the discussion and that's around ESG. Maybe how -- maybe talk to us about how you're hearing those ESG conversations with your customer so far. I know historically with your key exposures in aerospace and automotive that might be a little bit different. But now with packaging in the mix, you can now start to talk a little bit about recycling. And certainly, it's an end market where the ESG themes are so significant as people transition from plastics to aluminum cans? So how are you seeing those ESG conversations evolve across your 3 to 4 end markets?

Well, ESG has really always been part of the culture and the value within the Kaiser Aluminum organization. We've always had focus on our investors, the employees, our suppliers and then the communities we serve. So we basically have always had that as part of the makeup of Kaiser. But obviously, as you pointed out, as we begin to move forward, the ESG conversation is in every move that we make with regard to investments that we're making, in discussions with our customers, of course, from a Scope 3 perspective, they're worried about what their raw material suppliers and what they're doing. We're doing the same, obviously, with our supply base. So I can honestly say this has manifested itself, and it's actually -- it's very logical to move in. It's not only good for all the constituents that we're referring to here, but it's also an economical move forward, we believe. So the scrap reclamation recyclability and all this, those are cost savings. They also hit the sustainability targets. So these are natural progressions of moves to make. So I don't have a discussion with -- in our business planning with anyone about what does the impact have on the environment, what it have with our employees, what it have with our customers. And of course, especially, you pointed out on the packaging side, I think that's really exciting with what we're dealing with there. The focus and what really gave us a lot of interest in the North America packaging opportunity, you really look for that they want to buy product mainly from where they make the cans. And there's been significant investment in can-making in North America. And a lot of the reasons, the scrap loops and just a lot of supply chain issues that, obviously, they're dealing with them. So it's a natural move to utilize more scrap as we move forward, and we'll be -- we're focusing on that. By the way, our ESG report will be out by the end of the year. There'll be more specific targets and goals launched through there. But there's tremendous activity in the company, and it's really -- Warrick is leading the charge there. Great opportunity for us. That facility has been associated with a hot metal source and a coal-fired power station. We think that there'll be vast improvements over that going forward. And so a lot of opportunity in the company. I'm excited about the opportunities that we'll bring and the progress that we'll make and we'll be sure we're communicating that well as we move forward on our goals.

Fantastic. We're certainly looking forward to that going forward. And maybe one more before I turn it back to you for any closing remarks, but scrap, I think, has been a very hot topic. And certainly, that's a very evident and can be easily used in the packaging industry. But when you think about aerospace, how easy is it to use scrap in some of the more higher-spec types of products that you make? Or is it still very much a focus on using primary aluminum at this point in time?

Well, I would say that you're correct. I mean we use a lot of prime, pure type approach there. And certainly the alloys that we have, we have to be cautious, obviously, we've been making these products for 75 years. So we wouldn't put anything at risk. But there are opportunities, and we have been moving forward on a lot of those opportunities. Moving back on closed scrap loops with our end customers. That's actually been well underway for many years within Kaiser. And so we're developing a lot of that, a lot of metallurgical progress has been made on what we can. So moving those areas where we can utilize more scrap, certain scrap. We've certainly tried and been putting those things in place. So I don't believe we're at the end of the road on that. I believe that we still have additional opportunities, which will mine for that. But we think it's going to be embedded in everything that we do and can be. We just have to be responsible how we use those things. And certainly, safety and quality are always the first in our mind with related to how we'll progress forward there.

Fantastic. Well, Keith, that's been a great discussion. Lastly, anything else that you think we've missed or in your view, what do you think investors are still under appreciating at this point in time?

Well, it's been a challenging year for us. But I will say this, our priorities have been to really successfully integrate the Warrick business inside of Kaiser. We're well along there. We expect to be done with all those transitional support agreements we have in place by the end of first quarter. A number of issues on the supply disruption, we didn't really anticipate the manpower issue, excuse me, just the labor situation that we had. And obviously, the mag thing came and hit us there. But I will say this, this has been -- the teams have worked extremely hard in this company. I'm very proud of this organization. The future is extremely bright in my opinion. We've got 4 strong markets, secular growth opportunities. We're well positioned in the market. I'm really looking forward to '22. And I think over the next few years, it's just going to be fantastic. So I really enjoyed sharing time. Thank you for the opportunity today Emily and I think the better times are ahead of us.

Fantastic. We're certainly looking forward to it, and it certainly looks like a lot of your end markets are on the up and up in the next year. So we'll look forward to that execution. Thank you, Keith for your time.

Thank you.

Great. And to our investors, we do have a panel with Reliance Steel and Aluminum coming up next. So that will be at 2:00 p.m. Eastern. So hold still for that one. Thanks for joining us today.