Kalpataru Projects International Limited (KPIL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Kalpataru Power Transmission Limited Q3 FY '23 Conference Call hosted by Emkay Global Financial Services Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Abhineet Anand from Emkay Global Financial Services. Thank you. Over to you, sir.

Thanks, Tovin. Good afternoon, everyone. I'd first like to thank the management for giving us this opportunity to host the call. I will hand over the call to Mr. Vishesh Pachnanda, Vice President and Head Investor Relations. Over to you, Vishesh.

Thanks, Abhineet, and thank you for hosting the call today for us. A very good evening to all the participants. This is Vishesh Pachnanda. I'm pleased to welcome you to the Kalpataru Power Transmission Limited's earnings call and for the third quarter, end of fiscal year '22-'23. We have with us today the management team represented by Mr. Manish Mohnot, Managing Director and CEO; Mr. S.K. Tripathi, Deputy Managing Director; Mr. Amit Uplenchwar, Director; and Mr. Ram Patodia, President and CFO. We'll start with a few minutes of opening remarks by Mr. Manish and then we can open the floor for Q&A. With that and without any further delay, over to you, Manish. Thank you.

Thank you, Vishesh. A very good evening and a very warm welcome to you all for joining the earnings call of Kalpataru Power Transmission for the quarter and 9 months ended December '22. Before diving into our performance for Q3, I would like to inform you that the merger of JMC Projects with Kalpataru Power Transmission was completed in the month of January '23. The scheme of amalgamation has been effective from 4th January '23. The record date for allotment of shares was 11/1/'23 and newly issued shares were listed on 1st February '23. The merger was completed before the period time against our earlier expectation of March 2023. With the completion of the merger, Kalpataru has become one of India's largest listed diversified engineering and construction company with a global presence and order book, including L1 of nearly INR 46,600 crores. This is a major milestone for us, and more importantly, the merger strengthens our core EPC business and places us favorably to take advantage of the large spending happening globally and in India towards energy transition and civil infrastructure development. We now possess the necessary capabilities and flexibility to rebalance our growth strategy given the dynamic business environment. Our diversified business along with proven competence in domains of design, engineering, construction, project management and manufacturing will help improve and strengthen our market position going forward. We are now working on the integration of banking, IT, HR and procurement initiatives in order to fully leverage and benefit from the synergies arising out of combination of these 2 entities. These benefits are expected to start kicking gradually from Q1 of '24 onwards. Coming now to the financial and operational performance for Q3 and 9 months for the financial year '23. Let me put forward that with the completion of the merger and the appointment date being 1st April '22, our standalone results represent the combined standalone financials of [indiscernible], JMC and KPTL. We have delivered standalone top line growth of 10% in Q3 and 12% for 9 months financial year '23. The growth has been led by robust execution and a healthy order book in the domestic and international business. Our consolidated revenue has grown by 3% in Q3 and 8% for 9 months '23 to reach INR 11,479 crores. It's worthwhile to note that we were not able to book some part of the revenue in the last few days of December '22 and the initial days of the month of January '23, owing to the procedural delays and modalities arising out of the merger due to replacement of contractual documents. All such contractual documents have been replaced across all projects. However we still expect standalone revenue growth to be closer to 15% and consolidated revenue growth in the range of 12% to 14% for the full year '23. Our standalone EBITDA margin continues to remain in the range of 9% for Q3 and 9 months for '23 despite enormous volatility in commodity prices and cost pressure. The underlying strength and focus of our business model on profitable growth are clearly demonstrated in our performance. Our EBITDA margin at the consol level were 9.1% for Q3 and 9% for 9 months '23. Our standalone PBT before exceptional items stood at INR 166 crores, with a margin at 4.7% in Q3 '23. For 9 months '23 PBT before exception stood at INR 520 crores, with margins at 5.2%. Our standalone reported PAT stands at INR 111 crores in '23 and INR 379 crores for 9 months FY '23. Our standalone net debt stands at INR 2,053 crores. The increase in net debt is primarily on account of incremental working capital requirements in select projects and higher CapEx for new orders largely in the international markets. Our standalone net working capital, they stand at around 134 days as in December '22 compared to 126 days in March '22. Our net debt level is expected to remain a similar range for Q4 '23. Getting into next year, we believe debt levels to reduce as we expect better collections, speedier project closure and proceeds from divestment of noncore assets, particularly indoor real-estate. We have witnessed strong quarter momentum with YTD order inflows of INR 19,487 crores. Additionally, we have L1 position of INR 5,200 crores. Our current order inflow including L1 stands at INR 24,687 crores against a targeted order inflow of INR 21,000 crores to INR 22,000 crores for full year. Our order book, including Linjemontage and Fasttel stands at an all-time high of INR 41,442 crores as of 31st December '22. Coming now to the individual businesses. In the T&D business, our revenue remains subdued largely on account of lower backlog at the start of the financial year. However, with the improved tendering activity and business development efforts, we have secured projects of over INR 7,500 crores till date in '23. With the new orders getting under execution, we expect growth to start -- to kickstart from Q4 of '23 onwards. Our subsidiary, Linjemontage, has delivered revenues of INR 279 crores in Q3 and INR 801 crores for 9 months '23. Our EBITDA margin for Linjemontage remain at comfortable levels in the range of 8% to 9%. Our brother subsidiary Fasttel has reported revenue of INR 95 crores in Q3 and INR 316 crores in 9 months '23, with an order book of INR 810 crores at the end of December '22. We continue to focus on project closures and strengthening our business in order to improve our performance in Brazil. Our B&F business has delivered revenue growth of 30% on back of robust execution and strong order book. Our YTD order intake stands at INR 3,395 crores and order book stands at INR 8,088 crores. We continue to strengthen our market proration with repeated wins from large existing clients and additional new institutional clients. We are confident to continue the growth momentum in our B&F business on back of our robust capabilities and improved business visibility. Our Water business achieved strong growth of 41%, aided by record order book and healthy execution. Our order book stands at INR 9,874 crores for the water division. Currently we are executing over 30 projects in India and overseas market. The continued trust by the government and increased budget reallocation of [indiscernible] well for this division. Our railway business was subdued marginally due to a lower order backlog. We are now focused on project closures and improving our market standing in segments like metro rail, semi-speed and high-speed rail. We are positive with the recent allocation in budget by government for improving and strengthening the railways infrastructure. Additionally we are focusing on international markets and expect some we breakthrough in the next year. In the oil and gas business, we have reported revenue growth of 7% in Q3 '23, and we have secured orders of around INR 1,420 crores. Our bidding activity remains very positive in India, MENA and African markets. We now qualify to bid in 6 to 7 countries and expect our international reach in the oil and gas business to improve in coming quarters. In the urban infra business, we reported strong growth in Q3 '23, which was driven by improved execution of new projects. We have also successfully commenced execution of the Maldives integrated airport development project. We expect our Urban infra business to contribute meaningfully to our growth in the coming years as significant investments are geared towards improving our capabilities. In case of our road BOOT projects, revenue continue to be in the growth trajectory as it has reached to INR 52.6 lakh per day in Q3 '23 compared to INR 46.3 lakhs per day in similar quarter last year. We have invested INR 60 crores in 9 months '23 largely to fund repayment and service our debt. We are at final stage of completing restructuring of WEPL. We had appointed advisers to evaluate the sale of our road BOOT assets again, given improved performance on traffic and toll infra. We are entering the last quarter of the financial year with a strong order book and a healthy tender pipeline across all our businesses and key markets. Additionally, the benefits arising from the merger integration with JMC will help us to improve our growth and profitability in the coming quarters. Currently we're in the midst of a detailed planning and budgeting exercise for the next financial year. And given a strong order book together with healthy tender pipeline, it appears that we should be able to deliver revenue growth in excess of 20% and improved EBITDA margin in financial year '24. We will come back to you on the exact financial '24 guidance during our full year results later in the year. With this, I would request the moderator to open the lines for Q&A. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities.

So on the integration of JMC now, sir, have you started...

Sir, there was some loss of audio. I request you to please repeat your question.

Yes. So I just wanted to understand that integration with JMC, have you started realizing improved profitability or savings? Did you recommend anything in this quarter?

So Parikshit, the benefits are coming on different accounts. But on the financial side, the savings would start maybe from Q1 of next year, primarily on the banking and interest cost because there's a big difference in the cost for both the organizations. You started the process of discussing with banks and it's a very advanced stage. We believe by March, that should be done. So on the banking and interest costs, it will start from Q1 of next year. On the process of integrating the capabilities and bidding for large projects, we've already started working that out, and that's helping us with some large projects. And also on international projects speaking, a lot of our civil within the international, that's also started. But to answer your question directly on the financial side, I think the benefits you'll start seeing from Q1 of '24.

Both on the financial side and the operational side and plus release of our other guarantees, non-fund, fund-based limits because of the integration. So what kind of total savings you are expecting in the expansion out of this merger because interest rates have also gone up? So I know how much you can really save. If you can quantify the current interest rate, that will be helpful. And what kind of limits will get freed up for us post this integration on the fund and non-fund baseline?

Sure. So on the limit front, I think now as a merged entity, we have enough limits to look at growth for -- of 20% plus for the next 2 years so we're not worried both on funded and nonfunded. During our merger exercise, we had calculated a benefit of closer to INR 100 crores coming out of the merger exercise, both on interest costs and a few other areas of cost rationalization. We believe that easily INR 50 crores to INR 70 crores reduction we should see in interest getting into the next year itself on the merge entity.

So my second question is on the growth outlook now. So now we have JMC with us. We have quantified our balance sheet. We have expanded network capability qualifications. So what kind of opportunity it opens up in the international market? So how do you see your prospect pipeline multiplying now on account of this integration or merger?

So Parishad, today, our order book visibility of around INR 46,000 crores is good enough to provide us a healthy growth getting into the next 2 years, right? Please remember that our order book has actually doubled in the last 2 years on a merged entity basis, right? So with this order book, we're confident that we'll be doing a minimum of 20% growth getting into the next year. Will it -- is it going to be very significantly different than that in terms of the upside? I would say no. It should be -- this is in the range of 20% to 21%, 22%. We are doing the final things now, and we'll come back to you, but 20% plus growth is visible for the next 2 years.

So this is coming more from JMC side, that JMC is now going international. So the brand name of Kalpataru, [indiscernible] Kalpataru. So what kind of possibilities it opens up on the ordering front and this INR 21,000 crores to INR 22,000 crores of inflows, so how do you see this growing for the next [indiscernible]?

So Parikshit, it's important to understand that now as a merged entity, all divisions are looking at a growth of closer to 20%. Except for the railway division, every other division, whether it is water, whether it is B&F, whether it is T&D or whether it is oil and gas, all are looking at growth of 20% plus in the next year given the visibility of order book.

Order inputs are also expected to grow by 20% next year in '21 INR 20,000 crore...

We will come back to you on that because this current year against our order inflow target of INR 21,000 crores, we believe we will be landing up at INR 2,400 crores, INR 25,000 crores. So our revised order inflow target for next year we will come back to you along with the year-end results.

[Operator Instructions] We have the next question from the line of Akshay Kothari from Envision Capital.

Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, I could not understand the reason for the lower execution which you mentioned. Can you please elaborate it?

See, we -- that the primary reason for lower execution in the last week of December and the first week of January was because a lot of projects of JMC primarily with government agencies and a few railway projects, we had to replace the old guarantees of JMC with the guarantees of the new [ SOL ] company. Also, a lot of these PSU entities have their own processes of giving the approvals, right? While the NCLT approval has come, there will be certain documentation, they would ask for certain additional information and all the time. It's a process which is very normal, but we are doing it for the first time. So we did invest a few weeks in getting that done. While we speak, all projects we have done that. And doing that process in the last week of December and the first week -- to a few weeks of January, a few projects suffer in terms of execution as well as collection.

So now they have normalized, right?

Yes. As of today, all projects are normalized.

Okay. And sir, in the recent credit rating update, it was mentioned that around INR 100 crores of maximum loss from the road projects could be around INR 100 crores. So we have booked an ECL of around INR 2 crores in this quarter. So do we expect any significant ECL in the coming quarters or in Q4 as well?

So we do not -- I don't think the ECL has come out of the road projects just so that we're very clear. ECL as a process comes out of the overall data's which are overdue in nature. As far as our road projects are concerned, we don't expect any further loss to come. We've just taken a INR 2 crore hit on KPTL, right, which is on account of expenses which has been incurred there. It's just the amount of INR 2 crores, which is on account of statutory liabilities and some creditor payments, which were overdue in nature, which we have paid now.

Sir, you did give a guidance of FY '24, part in Q4, do we expect a very good revenue execution and what could be the margins we could see?

So in Q4 also, we are expecting revenue growth in the range of 15-odd percent, and that's what we have guided. We do not see margins falling drastically. We do not see it going up also. It should be in the range of same, 8.5%, 9% at a standalone and it's a consol in the range of 9%.

Okay. And sir, my last question would be on the effective tax rate. So it's around 30%, 31% currently in this quarter as well. So as far as I'm aware, it was around 25.2% or guided as 25.2%. So can you just clarify on what would be our effective tax rate because a lot of jurisdictions come into play and, so?

The effective tax rate is close to about 30% because there are certain countries where the tax rate is much higher than the Indian tax rate. So we now have to pay tax as in those countries. So the tax liability of those counties also get clubbed over in India tax liability. Plus there are certain losses on which we are not creating the effective tax percent because we don't have a strategy at this point in time how we generate that kind of gain to offset those losses. So that's why, in fact, we tax them close to 30% 31%.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Kaushik Poddar from KB Capital Markets.

Yes. Next year, what is the kind of margin you're looking at? I mean, right now, it is a 9%, 9.5% on a consol basis. So what is the margin you're looking at with the 20% top line growth?

So Kaushik, while we're doing a detailed business plan, we do not see significant reduction in margin. We expect margins to be at a similar level. We would be coming back with a refined number when we give the year-end numbers.

On the margin front as well, is that?

Yes. But you shouldn't expect a significant downfall or incremental. Our first levels is that it would be in the range of 8.5% to 9% revenue.

And with the expected INR 50 crores to INR 70 crores of interest rate reduction, do you see the PBT level margin going up?

Yes. We are targeting PBT levels to be in the range of closer to 5%. That's what our target getting into the next year, and we will do a final print on that and come back to you.

As of now, it is less than 5% as of now? I haven't...

It's around 4.7% on a 9-month basis.

Okay. So you see a 0.3% to 0.5% bump up, right?

Approximately 0.3, 30 basis points.

0.3%. Okay. And this suddenly -- I mean this 20% you are thinking of this year -- next year and year after next, that is the kind of projection you are giving. So do you need some amount of additional manpower for that? Or I mean, would it be -- how much percent increase in manpower cost do you think for those 20% revenue growth for the next 2 years?

So we have been continuously building manpower over the last few years, right? And today, the integrated manpower strength of more than 7,800 people, we believe we might not need so many people to come in at actual project site level. As far as subcontractors are concerned, definitely, we need more contractors to work with it. We will definitely need more manpower on the international projects, where we have had a huge exponential growth coming up in the last 12 months in case of order book. And that's something. So water division and international project is something where we might have to build additional teams. Water, because we've entered a few more states in the last 3 to 6 months, and order book is very high. International, because we have covered more geographies and the order book has grown. So with that, I think these 2 divisions we'll be building. It's a continuous exercise, but that would not be a constraint to achieve our revenue growth.

Okay. And my last question, you have given a projection of $3 billion by '25. That means if you're talking about FY '26, right?

So we are talking of FY '25. If you grow at 20% -- we are there.

I mean, '24-'25 or '25-'26?

'24-'25.

Okay.

[Operator Instructions] We have the next question from the line of Amit Anwani from Prabhudas Lilladher Private Limited.

So my question is about the domestic international mix. If you could highlight segment wise and post-merger, what kind of domestic international mix, if any assessment you would have done are looking for over the next 2 years based on the order book?

So I'll just divide this into 2 components. One is the order inflow for the current year and second is the order book. If you look at the order book today, our order book of around INR 41,400 crores, domestic is 56% and international is 44%. If you look at the current year order inflow, domestic is 60%, international is 40%. We believe that the opportunity on international, at least on 3 or 4 segments, which are primarily transmission, urban infra, oil and gas, look very attractive. As far as the domestic market is concerned, whether it is transmission or water or B&F, or railways, all of them look healthy. Going forward, we believe we should be in the range of 55% to 60% on domestic and around 40% to 45% on international.

Right. But sir, in the current book, just wanted to understand how much at least in like water and T&D, how much is domestic international?

So on the T&D side, if you look at our total order book, which is around INR 14,376 crores, I think around 70% plus is international. To give you an exact number out of the INR 14,736 crores, around only INR 2,000 crores, which is domestic, everything else is international.

All right. My second question is on...

Water, 90% plus is international. There's only Mongolia and Maldives, which is international. Everything else is domestic. Sorry. And the water, 90% plus is domestic.

INR 600 crores, INR 700 crores. Yes. So my question is on next question on the railways and T&D, you highlighted T&D has seen a decline because of lower opening order book and railways have also have been muted. So any other pipeline visibility would like to highlight in domestic market, considering the few announcements in budget also for FY '24 for T&D and railways?

Yes. So if you look at T&D, what happened in the first 6 months was a lot of projects got delayed, whether it was projects on solar-related integration, whether it was Leh-Ladakh, whether it was a lot of Rajasthan, Gujarat project, a lot of them got delayed. In the last 3 months, we've seen a lot of projects open up. And while we speak, we're L1 on 3 or 4 large projects. So on the P&D strength, we believe that, that business should be coming back to a 10% or more growth getting into the next year because a lot of these orders where we are L1. One of them is a state and a couple of them are power grid. We should get the orders and the execution will start into next year. As far as railway is concerned, we have not grown our order book consciously because focus a lot more on closure of projects and completing all projects because the order book there was very healthy at the beginning of the year. Now with the new budget, hopefully, we'll see a lot more tenders coming up, and that's when we will re-strategize our growth plans for the railway division.

Right. Last question on the synergy benefits. So what we are targeting, how much percentage savings we are targeting through synergy benefits over the next 2 years?

So I think I had already answered this question. I'm just repeating it, at least on the interest front, we expect the savings to come up INR 50 crores to INR 70 crores. This is what we had budgeted when we had done the merger exercise. Now with interest rates going up, we are going to revisit that, but definitely, it should be in the range of INR 50-plus crores on the interest front itself.

Right. I just wanted to understand operational up bound interest, yes, on if you can?

So operationally, we wouldn't see a significant portion of saving except for the ability to bid for large projects, doing projects with civil engineering, mechanical, all of them come together and international project exposure to a lot of civil businesses. Because given the growth trajectory, I don't think we'll see any savings coming out of production of manpower because we right now continuously recruiting. But definitely, we are aiming to leave margins sustained in the range of 9% for the current order book also.

All right, sir. And sir, how has been the margin variability across segments, the low-margin segments and high-margin segments right now currently in the book?

So I think except for urban infra and railway, balanced businesses margins have been all in the range of 8% to 10% only.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Teena Virmani from Kotak Securities.

My question in regarding the working capital. How do you see the payment attribution from railways now has that started improving in the current quarter? Or how do you see it going forward also because of some change in the methodology that railways have adopted and how do you see it going forward? And my second question is related to pledging as to what would be your plan for pledging reduction going forward?

So on the railway projects, yes, there were a few EPC projects where the payments were milestone-based which were back ended. On those projects, now we have done more than 50%, 60% of the work, and so payments are regular in nature. We do not see any difficulties in getting payments there. We had a few quarters where that had gone up, but getting into Q4, that would start reducing in proportion to the work done. So we do not see any challenges on collecting our receivables as far as railway divisions are concerned based on whatever payment terms as is today. As far as the pledge is concerned, I think the visibility from the promoters as the prices continuously reducing. They reduced something in the last few months also. And the belief is that it will continuously reduce over the period of the next 6 to 9 months. And in a manner that the pledge is similar to what it used to be 3 to 4 years ago. We do not have exact numbers of reduction, but the message from promoters is that the pledge would continuously reduce.

Sir, my last question is regarding the breakup of order book in terms of fixed from the variable.

So today, in terms of fixed and visible order book, it would be very different across various division. But in totality, if you look at it as an organizing hold on INR 40,000 crores, we might have closer to 55% is variable in nature and 45% is estimated.

The next question is from the line of Bharat Sheth from Quest Investment Advisors Private Limited.

Sir, going ahead, can you give some visibility in all of the segments that we are present and how do we look at -- I mean, from 2, 3 years perspective?

Sure. So Bharat, I'll take the help of SKT also and I'll request SKT to first start with water, civil and front, some of them, and then I'll had on the other things. SKT?

Yes, yes. So Bharat Bhai, on the water front, there is a huge visibility across the country in most of the states. In fact, if I can quantify for the benefit of this discussion, only 30% to 40% of the opportunity has been opened up. Balance opportunities are to open in India. The other states who complete the water distribution across the country. So this is one inspection. So next 2 to 3 years, we see good visibility. Coming to the B&F, there is a robust inquiry across all the -- whether it is the IT space, residential. Of course, the area wise, the challenges and problems they remain. I mean, the NCR issues, Mumbai issue and the stable south market, that dynamics remain, but there is no death of the opportunities. This is 2. And the third is that...

Just to add on the T&D side, if I divide this into domestic and international, as I mentioned earlier, worldwide domestic last 3, 4 months, we've seen a lot of traction. And even in the last 2 weeks, there have been at least 5 or 6 reverse auctions conducted by [indiscernible] where we are on a few projects with Power Grid. So that visibility in a few states and the entire Gujarat, Rajasthan connectivity looks good. And with that growing at 10% plus is not a challenge for T&D domestic. As far as international is concerned, you can see from our order book also that over the last 9 months we have won several orders and across the globe. We have won orders in Africa. We've won orders in Middle East. We have won orders in Latin America. We won orders in [indiscernible] countries. So there is good visibility, and that business should be growing at 25% plus for the next year. As far as oil and gas is concerned, our focus is a lot more on international business. The domestic business does not look like growing very aggressively. But on the international business, we've now qualified for 6, 7 countries in Middle East and Africa, and that's something which is a very exciting opportunity. Railways, as I mentioned earlier, while there is opportunity, but our focus is right now a lot more on closure of projects because we already have a very healthy order book there.

And just to add, Bharat Bhai, the last one, the infra, those are like we have said earlier, there is a big spectrum of the opportunity, but we are cautiously choosing where to pick up the project. And that is definitely one point of growth, which remains. And whenever we get the opportunity, it is going to see a very good growth because that is the market which we are head to address.

So, Tripathi, this infra, can you give, I mean, differently, I mean, say, road, airport as well as portside or something?

So Bharat Bhai, road, yes, it is a big sector in India, but practically, we are not there, and we don't want to be here because it is overtly competitive. Metro, we are there. We are executing a project. We are looking more into the value-added project like going for the underground or something like that. So that opportunity, I think there is a good spectrum available and we will get in there. Third is the heavy civil kind of infrastructure projects like coastal road, tunnels or dams. They are also now with this merger. We have the array of capability to address such projects of the large size and the large complexity. Hence, rather than attempting a INR 500 crores, INR 700 crore project in those heavy several areas, we will be attempting the larger projects as this will be the strategy. Now coming to the infra, if you look at in the Maldives, we are doing airport, that also is an infra project as far as in the Indian context. So as I said, in Infra, it will be more based on the opportunity base where we get the right opportunity, we will chip in.

And Manish, can you give some more color on this renewable? What are the things that are happening and where there is a lot of [indiscernible], but still on the ground, how do we see?

Just so as we on the renewable side, we do not have a lot of presence in the solar business. We've taken one project in the international market, but we are not so much focused on that in the domestic market. As far as the domestic market is concerned, the opportunity more exists in the connectivity required for transmitting renewable to the bridge. So that's where we're seeing a lot of projects coming up in Gujarat and Rajasthan. And that's what is our focus area. On the domestic side, we're not so much focused on renewable EPC, whether it is solar or wind or hydro, any of them.

So my question was, Manishji, I mean, if say, earlier in thermal power, when the thermal power order used to get released T&D because more takes around 4, 5 years or now whereas in case of solar, it is much smaller. I mean EPCs setting up the post solar power plant is much a lower time frame. So how do we see, I mean, government working that evacuation should not suffer so a transmission line has to be ready, say, which should be at least taking still 18 months' time?

Sure. So Bharat, what we have seen in the last 6 months is a lot of tenders being floated by REC PFC to take care of the requirements in Rajasthan and Gujarat. We have seen tenders of more than INR 20,000 crores being floated by them across various projects, whether it is the [ Khagra ] or the [ Bhuj ] projects or connectivity from Rajasthan to Gujarat. And I think those have now moved in a very active manner. Last 1 week, there have been 5 or 6 auctions, which were done and won by different parties. So I think that clearly is a good opportunity for the next couple of years. And beyond that, I think this opportunity will continue to the other states of the country. Right now, I lost more focus on western state, primarily Rajasthan and Gujarat.