Kambi Group plc (KAMBI) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Kambi's Q2 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions] Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. So the agenda for today, we will start with some highlights from our CEO, Werner Becher. This is -- this will be followed by a financial summary from our CFO, David Kenyon. Then Werner will come back with some operational updates and the summary. Following the presentation, we will have time for the Q&A. With that, I would like to hand over the conference to you, Werner. Please go ahead.

Thank you, Mattias. Good morning, everyone. Our financial performance was once again in line with our expectations, but I'd like to stress, not in line with our ambitions, which are much greater. It was a quarter set against a difficult comparative period last year with the Euros and Copa Americas as well as the Penn transition fees, as David will explain shortly. Just after the quarter end, we signed an agreement with LeoVegas, which not only sees us to continue to provide our turnkey sports book until the end of 2027, but also our Odds Feed+ product in markets where they move across to their own sports book, the first examples being Finland and Denmark, just a couple of weeks ego. Just recently, we made a new turnkey partner signing with a Latin American-facing RedCap, adding to our momentum in the region. And as we highlighted after our EGM in June, we have initiated our largest share buyback program to date, underlining the confidence we have in the future prospects of our business. On the whole, the period provided examples of encouraging progress, which each in isolation may perhaps seem small, but taken together sees us progress on our path to creating a more stable platform for long-term growth. Now I'll hand over to you, David, who will speak a little bit more in depth about our financial performance.

Thank you, Werner, and good morning, everyone. Revenue for Q2 was EUR 40.5 million. This quarter, we faced a challenging prior year comparative of EUR 45.7 million, which included some nonrecurring transition fees of EUR 4.5 million. We also had an FX constant currency impact versus last year of EUR 1.2 million, and there have been various gaming-related tax increases also since Q2 last year. So a difficult comparative this quarter. I'm pleased to say that in terms of our costs, we started seeing the effects of our ongoing efficiency program. There was a 4% decrease in our total expenses, despite an FX headwind. And this cost reduction enabled us to post an adjusted earnings before interest, tax and amortization on acquisitions of EUR 3.7 million. For the first half, this metric is at EUR 7.2 million, excluding the foreign exchange on revaluations we saw in Q1. We have EUR 53.1 million in the bank as we end the first half. And as Werner mentioned, we just started our latest EUR 15 million share buyback program. This slide sets out the Kambi Turnover Index, which is an aggregated performance of our entire network. The blue columns represent the aggregated index turnover originally set at 100 of all our operators, and the orange line is the aggregated operator trading margin. In terms of the turnover, you see that it was down just under 5% from Q2 last year, and there's a number of reasons for that 5% decrease. Firstly, last year, there was the Euro 2024 and the Copa America, which added quite significantly to the turnover in Q2 last year. This quarter, we saw the Club World Cup, which we'll talk more about, which was a helpful addition to our -- to the sporting calendar, but didn't match up in terms of turnover versus those events last year. Since Q2 last year, Kindred has exited the U.S. and its dot.com markets. And we've also seen the impact of tightened regulations in the Netherlands, which have impacted turnover there. In terms of foreign exchange, we've seen a weaker Colombian peso and U.S. dollar, which have impacted the value of our turnover in those regions. And of course, you'll see in the graph that the operator trading margin increased significantly from 10.3% in Q2 last year to 11.5% this year. And there is a correlation between that higher margin and a reduced level of turnover. These negative factors have been offset to a certain degree by customers who have launched since the start of Q2 2024. And of course, we have also seen growth in the Brazilian regulated market from the 1st of January this year, as well as organic growth across areas of our portfolio. The decrease we -- you can see in turnover versus Q1 was the expected seasonality pattern of the American football, basketball and soccer seasons, offset by the baseball season of the MLB starting in Q2. Looking forward, Q3 is typically fairly quiet in the sporting calendar, but Q4 will be much busier with a full quarter of many of the key sports. The margin was higher at 11.5%, the highest you can see on this period on the graph. Football, in particular, had strong margins this quarter. We also saw strong engagement with our high-margin Bet Builder product. Here we see the development of our profitability metric, the EBITA that I mentioned earlier, from Q2 2024 to this year. I'd like to talk through on this slide, a lot of detail. I'll try and keep it straightforward. First column is the impact of the growth of our 2024 signings and our existing portfolio, so effectively the organic growth in the business. The second column is driven by the growth in operator trading margin that I mentioned, from 10.3% to 11.5%, has a significant boost to our revenues. The third light blue column is the 2025 launches. This includes both customers who launched in Brazil in January as well as the Odds Feed+ deals we've signed since Q2 last year. In terms of Brazil, I think it's fair to say it's underperformed our expectations so far. And also it's -- we should note it's a jurisdiction that faces a raise in its gaming tax in Q4 this year. The next column is the impact of the major football tournaments. As I mentioned, but last year, in particular, the Euro 2024 contributed significantly to the turnover. Of course, that was not something that occurred this year, but we did have the Club World Cup, which was smaller in quantum, but a helpful addition to the sporting calendar. The next column was EUR 4.5 million of transition fees, which we had last year, but not this year. The largest piece here was EUR 3.2 million from Penn National Gaming. Those transition fees ran until July 2024. So this is the last quarter where there's a full effect on the comps. Additionally, there was EUR 1.25 million from Napoleon Gaming. These fees ran at that level until December 2024. The next column refers -- relates to operator migrations moving out to the Kambi network. So here, we see the impact of both the Kindred exit of the U.S. and the dot.com markets. Also 32Red and Mr Green, who've migrated during Q1 away from Kambi. The final orange column in the revenue section is the gaming tax and other, and there's a few items in here worth mentioning. Firstly, the VAT on deposits in the Colombian market has had a significant impact on our revenue levels as well as our operators. That's shown in this column. The impact of the deposit limits in the Netherlands has also had a material effect on our numbers since last year. Additionally, the commission rates impact of certain key contract renewals, as shown in this column. And lastly, there's been a number of gaming tax increases in Netherlands, Sweden and Illinois, in particular, all of which add up to that last orange column on the revenue factors. As I mentioned earlier, there have been cost saving effects from our ongoing efficiency program, and we've seen savings across staff costs, consultancy and infrastructure since this time last year. We have faced an FX headwind across both revenue and costs, however. On the revenue, both the U.S. dollar and the Colombian peso have weakened. At the same time, the SEK, the Swedish krona, has strengthened, which -- and these both have moved in the wrong direction for us in terms of our EBITA (acq) that have contributed to the final position after all these many moving parts of EUR 3.7 million for the quarter. Our cash at the start of this quarter was EUR 56.4 million. We made tax payments in the quarter totaling EUR 3.8 million, with refunds on part of the Multi's tax expected in a later quarter. We also spent EUR 2.9 million on share buybacks, which both concluded a previous program before the EGM and then started -- after our EGM in June, we started a new EUR 15 million program, and we start to see the first effects of that at the end of Q2. This left a closing cash balance of EUR 53.1 million. And in terms of our share buybacks, we repurchased 280,000 shares in Q2, and this took the H1 repurchase to over 980,000 shares for a value of EUR 9.9 million. We also announced, as I mentioned, a EUR 15 million program running to November, in line with our capital allocation policy to return capital to shareholders for any excess cash in the business. So with that, I'm going to pass back to you, Werner.

Thank you, David. As mentioned earlier, we have seen progress in a number of areas over recent months with some of those developments shown on this slide. I spoke in the last quarter about BetPlay's expansion into Paraguay and the launch of a new Paf-operated brand in Sweden. So I'll focus today on the other items here. During the remainder of Q2, we signed an extension with JOI Gaming sportsbook, which is 1 of the top 5 operators in the Netherlands market with the brand JACKS. Despite the recent application of betting limits, Netherlands remains an important market for us. So we are pleased to agree this extension with one of the leading brands in the country. We also continue to strengthen our relationship with Bally's. In June, Kambi supported Bally's with sportsbook launches in the U.K. and Ireland for its Monopoly and Rainbow Riches brands, and we anticipate further launches in the future. Although it's only late July, Q3 has already proven to be a busy one for Kambi, perhaps headlined by a new deal with LeoVegas, which comes into 2 parts. Firstly, the extension of a turnkey deal, which runs until the end of 2027 now, securing revenue for Kambi during this time. And secondly, the Odds Feed+ agreement, which will mean LeoVegas will and already has integrated our Odds Feed API, so they can choose from our selection of high-quality traded odds to support their in-house operation. We've also signed a retail agreement with DraftKings to assist the launch of a sportsbook in Puerto Rico. The technical compliance requirements in Puerto Rico are rather unique. But as we're already active there with a compliant retail product and the fact we had a prior relationship with DraftKings means it makes sense to work together to support their market entry. Yesterday, we announced a turnkey sportsbook deal with Latin America facing operator, RedCap, which operates Betpro and Starplay brands in the region. We'll soon be launching in El Salvador and Panama with the scope for more markets and the retail channel launch in future. Redcap has strong financial backing and high ambitions, so we look forward to seeing how this partnership can grow and continues our expansion in increasingly important region for us. RedCap decided to join Kambi from an alternative sportsbook supplier, which highlights the quality of product and service we offer. Let me talk about -- a second about the FIFA Club World Cup. David spoke a little earlier about the delta between the major football tournaments of last year and this. The newly expanded fee for Club World Cup wasn't ever expected to fill the void of last summer's major championships, but that doesn't mean to say it wasn't a success from a betting perspective, at least. Being held out in the U.S., the timing for some of the games didn't fall kindly for European viewers, but were in favor of viewers in the Americas and in Latin America, particularly. We saw great engagement with our partners in the Latin American region, driving approximately 80% of our bets on the World Cup of teams. I think, once again, this speaks to the benefits of our global reach. While we have seen some European operators and suppliers bemoan the modest impact of the Club World Cup, for us, the tournament exceeded expectations. All the comparison during the quarter are difficult to make. The Club World Cup was the fourth highest generator of turnover during Q2 for us, despite having a far fewer games compared to the MLB, [indiscernible], Premier League and Esoccer. So even though the Club World Cup didn't match the dizzy heights of Euros or Copa Americas last year, for us, it was a very much welcome addition to the sporting calendar. The signing of RedCap in Latin America and the positive performance of the Club World Cup in the region are part of a broader growth story for us in Latin America. As you can see here, our Q2 performance has grown year-on-year over the past few years, with the latest increase largely driven by our expansion into Brazil, a market which has so far underperformed our expectations. So we remain hopeful for further growth there. And of course, the Q2 2025 performance comes against a tough comparative also in Latin America of last year's Copa Americas and Euros. So Latin America is an increasingly important market for Kambi, albeit one of a tough competition and even more competitive pricing. To enhance our prospects, we recently hired a new Head of Sales for Latin America, who brings great experience and strong connections in the region. I've spoken before about how we are aiming to diversify our revenue streams, and esports is one of the products increasingly helping us to do just that. What you can see on this slide is the growing impact esports powered by Abios division is having for us throughout the turnkey sportsbook. Over the past few years, we have seen sizable increases in esports turnover, largely driven by Esoccer, as you saw in an earlier slide, but also strong growth in the more traditional esports games. In Q2, esports was the fifth biggest sports generating turnover of the quarter, finishing ahead of the likes of ice hockey, horse racing and golf as an example. And it's this positive story around esports that is also helping us to sell into operators our Odds Feed+ product. Operators can see not only the uplift it gives to their sportsbook today, but the ability to attract a slightly different demographic to further enrich their customer base. We firmly believe esports will be a stable of the selection our Odds Feed customers make. So in summary, Q2 saw us deliver a performance in line with expectations. Also to reiterate, our long-term expectations are far greater. That said, it was encouraging to see our costs come down as we continue to focus on efficiency and productivity. We initiated a EUR 15 million share buyback program, our largest to date, delivering value to shareholders and underlining the confidence we have in the future prospects of our business. Finally, we continue on our mission to diversify our revenue to create a stronger platform for long-term sustainable growth, and there remain exciting opportunities ahead.

Thank you, Werner. And with that, we are ready to take questions from the teleconference. I hand over the word to the operator.

[Operator Instructions] We will now take the first question from the line of Oscar Ronnkvist from ABG Sundal Collier.

So my first one would be just if you could help a little bit with the seasonality. I think you say that H1 was broadly as expected, Q2 looks maybe a bit boosted by the strong sportsbook margin. I think you mentioned that as well. So Q2, just considering this high sportsbook margin, was that still in line? And just in terms of seasonality, then, I think you made around EUR 7 million in EBITA, excluding the FX revaluations, which to meet EUR 20 million for the full year, obviously needs to have a pretty strong H2 ramp-up. So could you help us a little bit with the seasonality in Q3 and Q4 and talk about Q2 in light of the strong sportsbook margin?

Yes. I can start, Oscar. I think, firstly, in terms of Q2, I think there the -- there's clearly a correlation between that high margin and the level of turnover. So if it's been a lower maybe more regular margin, then we expect the turnover would have been higher. So I don't think it really would have changed necessarily materially the overall picture of the performance in the quarter. Looking forward to how we get to the guidance for the full year, yes, it's a good question. It's -- the areas we expect to see growth, in particular, I would say, we expect more growth from our signings that have happened at the start of this year, so both the Brazilian market and the Odds Feed+ deals. We hope to generate revenues from OLG during the second half, which will be a direct add-on to any performance we've seen in the first half. The sporting calendar, like you say, always ticks up significantly in the fourth quarter, in particular, so that will drive our revenues. And lastly, you'll see more impact, more positive contribution from the savings program that we continue to roll out across the company. So these are some of the factors we're looking for in the second half.

All right. Perfect. And then just -- I think you have EUR 2.3 million in negative FX on EBITA year-to-date. And also you talked a little bit about the expectations you had on Brazil has maybe underperformed a bit. So just the puts and takes for when you initially announced the guidance. Obviously, the FX, you cannot do much about. But -- and just on Brazil, are there any other fluctuations relative to your initial expectations when you set up the guidance?

There's been a few other taxes -- gaming taxes, which we listed in the reports. There's a number of taxes that have kept -- popped up during the year, which obviously make our life a little bit harder in terms of reaching that guidance. But at this stage, nothing that blow us off course. But if you look at those taxes, I think they have an effect in the region of EUR 0.5 million to EUR 1 million versus our original expectation from those increased taxes. But no, nothing else I can think of that's materially changed.

No.

All right. So in light of these headwinds, is it fair to assume that maybe you're heading towards the lower end of the full year guidance?

I think that's a quite fair assumption given -- yes, given the FX, given the tax pieces I've talked about, but still uncertain at this stage. And we've still got -- as I mentioned, there's a lot of moving parts between here and where we expect to see improvement in the second half. So yes, at the moment, we're keeping the guidance untouched.

Perfect. Just a final one. Obviously, you have some cost efficiencies now in 2025. And I just saw that I think the employees have kind of flattened out, at least between Q1, Q2. I think you've talked a little bit about you can have some efficiency on -- some more efficiencies on the trading side. Could you help us understand a little bit on the time line of any further cost reductions maybe going into 2026 and when you expect those efficiencies could come into the numbers?

I think we'll continue making smaller efficiencies across the business. I mean, if you -- we're making efficiencies not only on the staff side, but also on our infrastructure and our consultants. It's across the business. It's not just in staffing. I think the impact on staffing from AI and the products we're developing, that will likely come during 2026. We don't know the exact time line yet, but that one, we'll have to keep you posted when it comes with a bit more certainty. But so we are -- as I said, it's not just across staff will be making efficiencies. You'll see -- you're going to see reductions in the second half in a number of areas.

[Operator Instructions] We will now take the next question from the line of Martin Arnell from DNB Carnegie.

Yes. I think many of my questions already been asked about the second half, but maybe we could just -- could you mention why -- the contribution from new customers in the second half, you mentioned OLG impact. What's the expected time line for the launch? Can you remind us there? And also anything else in addition to OLG that we should think of in terms of new customers coming in?

Yes. So thanks for the question, Martin. We are fully on track with our project with Ontario Lottery. So we expect to launch as initially planned in the second half of the year. It will be more end of quarter 3, beginning of quarter 4. And we also expect revenue contributions for 2025 P&L from OLG already this year. It's a significant new customer for us with a lot of bespoke work to be done. On all the other opportunities in our pipeline, as you know, we can't comment. There are also some RFP processes out at the moment, where all tenderers have to sign confidentiality agreements, NDAs, et cetera. So unfortunately, we can't comment on these opportunities in our pipeline. But as soon as we have signed contracts, we will, of course, announce.

Perfect. And I guess, Q3 is also quiet, especially now in the summer. But I guess, at least you can see sequential increase quarter-on-quarter for Q3. And the reason I ask this is just, I mean, you have a guidance. It's intact, and it's pretty clear. And is that fair to assume a higher EBITA in Q3?

I don't think we're going to make a short-term forecast on Q3. I'd say the vast majority of the uptick is going to come in Q4. So yes, I think -- yes, I don't see Q3 being -- it really depends, of course, on margin in particular. But in general, Q3 should be relatively similar to Q2 in terms of underlying business.

Okay. I'll rephrase the question. Is it fair to say that the seasonality impact is stronger in Q3 than in Q4 in general for this sector?

Much quieter in Q3 than Q4, absolutely, yes. Significantly, yes. I mean, most of the big leagues don't really start until...

Sorry. My question was higher seasonality in Q3 than in Q2, in general, for the sector given the big football league start in August, September.

Yes. So we now have the MLB running in the U.S. We have Women's Euro running at the moment. And we had the big European soccer leagues ending their season in Q2, including Champions League Finals, a lot of big events. And as you mentioned, we have starting the seasons, end of August, beginning of September now. So I would say from the busyness of the sporting calendar, Q2 is quite similar to Q3.

Okay. And then I have a question on commercial terms. You often talk about that when you re-sign a customer. Can you give some color on the LeoVegas contract? Does that now include MGM also, so the take rate is lower?

So of course, because of confidentiality, commercial sensitivity, we can't disclose our commercial terms with customers. But as you know, we are working for a long time now already with LeoVegas. And a heavy decrease in our commercial terms was not the main area of this deal. So they're rolling out their sportsbook. As you know, we're happy to support them for 2 years more. And we are fully supportive on all the esports deal with them, which is a great deal. So the main thing here was not changing their commercials.

Okay. And my final question, just on the -- I saw that you -- you'd signed a contract with DraftKings, which you mentioned in the report. Why did you -- why didn't your press release that one?

Sometimes, in negotiations with commercial agreements, customers are quite reluctant about letting us announce deals publicly. So we managed with them, allowing us to mention this in the quarterly report, but they were not happy to pushing this out very loudly to -- let me say it this way.

There are no further questions on the phone at this time. I would like to hand back over for any webcast questions.

Thank you. So we will have the questions from the chat and -- so I will read them and then you could just answer to me, please. Bally's recently sold its international business to Intralot. Can you comment on how this may impact your non-U.S. business with Bally's for good or for bad?

Yes, I can comment on it if you want. So at the moment, it's absolutely business as usual for us with Bally's. We have a great relationship with Bally's. So the transaction, so far as we know, relates mainly to their business outside of the U.S. Our sportsbook business with Bally's is mainly in the U.S. So we will see how this merger develops, but we mainly see there's an opportunity at the moment for Kambi. We have a premium product, and we see that the larger business group, like now also including Intralot, could have some nice additional opportunities for us because we are 100% sure that Bally's as well as Intralot understand the quality of our product.

Thanks. Second question then. RedCap was won from a competing supplier. How have you seen competition evolve?

Yes. So I think there is -- it's fair to say there is an ongoing trend over many years, I would say, even more than a decade now that our commercial terms, our revshare, the whole B2B sportsbook industry is coming a little bit down. I think 10 years ago, revshares were around 25%, 20%. We are now, let's say, in a range of 12%, 10%. And with all the efficiencies mainly coming from AI, looking forward, we expect to be in a position -- being more cost efficient going forward, that we will be able to offer even more attractive pricing to our customers to take more market share. So there is not so much competition, I would say, in the U.S. because of the very rigorous licensing restrictions in the U.S. There is some competition in Europe. South America is a battlefield at the moment. It's also very competitive on pricing. But regulation is always in our favor. So more and more operators also in Latin America. Being on the platform of alternate suppliers now, entering regulated markets understand the need and the importance of a premium product we offer. So South America going forward will be a very important market for us.

Thanks. Last quarter, you spoke about the sales pipeline and, in particular, opportunities with the state-owned sectors such as lotteries. Can you provide any updates here? Are you still confident in your position within this customer segment?

A tough question to answer, Mattias. As I mentioned a few minutes ago, as a normal course of business, of course, we are part of many tenders. And yes, there are some public tenders, tenders of state-owned, big companies out there at the moment. But all these tender processes start with signing an NDA, right? So we can't comment on any RFP process or any public tenders until they come to a point where we have negotiated also contract terms, and we signed a contract. Then we, of course, will immediately announce. But unfortunately, I can't comment on any of these ongoing processes now.

Thanks. How is the interest for the Odds Feed+ product and other new products? Has this met your expectations?

I would say, yes, it has met our expectations when it comes to our pipeline and the interest we see from the market. It's fair to say it takes a little bit longer than expected to close these, especially because we are focused at the moment on Tier 0 and Tier 1 operators. And decision-making processes, their IT road maps to integrate their API with these companies can be quite complicated and take a while. That's, I would call it, a learning for us. We're still very confident that we are on the right track with our strategy, and this is a great product for the market. But yes, it's probably these coming in a little bit slower than expected.

And then a follow-up. Can you give some color on the Odds Feed+ launch with Leo in Denmark and Finland, which sports and so on?

Yes. I'm not allowed because of commercial sensitivity and contracts we have signed with them to talk in detail about what exactly they will take from us. But from a technical perspective and a contractual perspective, they are free to take whatever they want from us. Of course, we have discussed and agreed on some content they will take from the beginning. But like with many of our customers, Odds Feed+ products, we are very confident that when they seen reality in production, the product performing against the Odds Feed suppliers they use today that they will take more and more from us. This is also a learning we have, of course, from Hard Rock.

Thanks. Here's a question I think we may not be able to answer, but I'll ask it anyway. Is there a minimum guarantee fee in the new contract with LeoVegas?

Yes, we can't comment on this, of course, right?

Can you say something about the growth in Brazil compared to the first quarter?

Yes. I would say we saw some slightly increase in revenues, turnover, betting activity is now -- also the Brazilian League and some other local national leagues are up and running after their summer break in our winter. As David mentioned, Brazil is still performing below our expectations. We have some customers in the region performing as expected. Some looks like holding a little bit back with their market initiatives still, which is, of course, out of our control. But we still see Brazil going forward as a big important market for us. The new taxes coming up in August will, of course, be a little bit, yes, dampening these ambitions in the market for many operators. But in general, and to us, the sports fan base in Brazil, big country, a proper regulation in place now should be in our favor long term.

Thanks. You received your Nevada license in Q1. Can you please give a general update on commercial progress and opportunities?

Yes. So there is not a lot of competition in Nevada on the sportsbook side as licensing is so difficult in Nevada, and there are only very, very few licensed B2B suppliers there. Normally, licensing is a little bit complicated because Nevada is the gold standard out there. Also certification and testing of the product takes some time, GI certification, running field tests, et cetera. So we are on track with completing all these requirements for certification. And of course, our business development team is in touch with many local operators already, and our pipeline is filling up.

Good. Referring to your comments regarding current business performance, what are the primary areas where you see the greatest opportunities for improvement?

Would you like to take it? Or should I?

Well, I'll talk about cost, and you can talk about revenue.

Sure. Let's do it that way, yes.

Yes. I mean from my side, we've already seen a shift in the cost base, but there's more to do. That is something we, as a team, continue to push on. And as I mentioned earlier, it's not just looking at headcount numbers. It's where should staff be located, what are we paying our suppliers, why do we need these consultants. It's looking and lifting every rock in the business to look at cost. So from my side, that's a continuing portion. It will be for the foreseeable future.

Yes. We're very focused on our long-term vision and strategy. So we are not doing any stupid cost cutting here. We are implementing a high-performance culture. We're looking on productivity. We're looking on efficiency. And this is a very big project internally because it's a culture change for the company. But cost cutting for sure will not help us to get out of more or less stable revenue base for some years now. So I think with our new product portfolio, with Latin America and the next thing, Asia coming, more regulation to come also in the U.S. with California, Texas and more states, there are a lot of opportunities for us out there with Odds Feed specifically, but more products to come soon in our portfolio. We will increase our TAM. We will broaden our customer base. So on the revenue side, I think after LeoVegas and Kindred leaving us, the momentum on the pipeline on the commercial side is very convincing.

Thanks. Regarding the DraftKings retail agreement in Puerto Rico, do you see a chance for incremental sales in DraftKings? Or is it more a one-off given the compliance complexities there?

That's also a question about commercial sensitivity now. What I can say that, of course, also with DraftKings, we had some discussions about our Odds Feed+ product to support them in other regions. Let me say these are very productive, constructive discussions we have to them, as with many other Tier 1 and Tier 0 operators. So I couldn't guarantee that there will be no further deals with DraftKings, but I can't comment on anything else.

Thanks. And then the last questions from the chat. Would you be open to act as a market maker on the prediction market exchanges in the U.S.? Or if prediction markets continue to be popular, how do you plan to participate in that trend?

Yes. So definitely, prediction markets are a big topic in the U.S. now. We are closely monitoring the situation there. Like many of the operators in the U.S., also for us being licensed in 20-plus jurisdictions in the U.S., we have to be super careful to not enter any unregulated markets. What does this mean? This means that for the prediction market operators entering this illegal, unregulated markets now, for sure, they could have a head start because they could create a customer database already now. We will see how these legal impetus will end up. I expect them to take a few years more. For now, it's very difficult for us to enter these unregulated, illegal markets in the U.S. without risking the business we already have in the U.S.

Thanks. Thank you. That concludes the questions from the chat and the presentation. So thank you, Werner and David, for joining, and thank you, everyone, for participating. We will, of course, be happy to take any additional questions you may have. Please send them to me. Otherwise, we look forward to seeing you on the 5th of November when we disclose our Q3 earnings. Thank you.