Kamux Oyj (KAMUX) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon. Welcome to Kamux's Capital Markets Day. My name is Katariina Hietaranta. I'm Head of Investor Relations at Kamux. Before we kick off with the full program, I'd like to take you through a couple of practicalities and the agenda. So we have scheduled a break in between the 2 parts of the program. And we have also scheduled some time for questions, both here from the audience as well as via chat from our webcast viewers after each presentation. And then we will also have some time for questions at the very end of the presentation. And time-wise, we expect to be at the break around half past 3, but we shall see how the program goes. And now I would like to welcome Tapio Pajuharju here to introduce the rest of the -- or the whole Kamux Group management team.

Thank you, Katariina. Welcome also on my behalf for the Kamux Capital Markets Day. And I would like to kick off with introducing the team. So it's not the one man show. This is a team effort and I may ask you to jump on the podium. We do this sole -- seldom that we thought we will bring everyone on board. So you will get the feel and touch off of the people and here we go. I will start with the ladies as usual. So we have Marjo Nurmi, our VP of HR and sustainability.

Nice to meet you all.

Then we have a newcomer. I think Aino joined us in the month of January and is in charge of the marketing and concept work.

Yes, nice to meet you all. Hello.

Then we have Vesa. I think Vesa is incharge of the strategy, development and then always when we had doubt, we ask Vesa.

Good afternoon.

He has also the data and good insight to the industry and I think has a great presentation later today in the markets. Then we have Jani Koivu. Jani is the Managing Director for our Finnish operation.

Good afternoon, all.

Then we have the man who is incharge of all the sourcing.

Hello [indiscernible].

And he is all the way from Hämeenlinna. Then we have Andy Rietschel, our Managing Director for Sweden.

Good afternoon.

Also new beginner started in the December 17, and learning very fast. Then we have one of the juniors, luckily to present our CFO, Jukka Havia.

Hi. Good to see you all.

Then we have Jarkko Lehtismäki. He's VP of Digital, IT and everything in between, and has also a very good insight into the business. So very happy to have Jarkko on board.

Thank you all.

Then we have the small market in Germany, we have Martin Verrelli, our Managing Director of Germany. So this is the team. And then within this team, you have people who are really making it happen. So that's why I wanted to introduce everyone on the podium. Later on, most of you will have something to say. And all the day, people are here for the questions and comments. So please use the opportunity. Thank you. Then Vesa will continue with the markets.

Yes, indeed. Next, we will jump to the secrets of the European used car market, to give you some helicopter perspective on the field where we play and the area that we operate and to give some of our view as well, where the markets are going in the future in the strategy period. I want to start with the margin size -- market size because this is a fact that surprises many. We are operating in the 0.5 trillion euro market, the European used car market, EUR 500 billion annual turnover. So really a big opportunity and very fragmented. There are 35 million or more than 35 million cars sold in Europe as a used every year and the top 5 players only sell less than 0.5 million of those, so 1-point-something percent; very, very fragmented landscape across the Europe. And when we go to our home markets of Germany, Sweden and Finland, the same story continues, very big markets and still very fragmented. And Germany here, of course, is the biggest opportunity with itself close to EUR 100 billion annual revenue potential and also the, by far, the most fragmented of our 3 countries. The top 5 players are only 2% of the market. And the rest is covered by 37,000 other players that operate there, mostly small- and medium-sized companies. Then on the other end of the spectrum, we have Finland, largest of the 3 markets, but still quite sizable EUR 5 billion market. Finland might be the most consolidated used car market in the world, at least in Europe. But still here, the top 5 comment only 25% of the market, which is really small compared to almost any other retail business that you could imagine. And then, Sweden then comes in between. But in all countries, really, we have this huge opportunity to grow to gain share of the market. The consolidation is something that has also happened strongly and steadily. Here are Finnish figures, border one showing the top 5 market share, from 16% back in 2019 to 25% today. And the upper line is the consumer -- the consumer business, which has been steadily declining, meaning that the business is getting more and more professional and established, as is typical for any retail market. What is interesting, the consolidation has not mostly happened through M&A, but rather through organic growth of the biggest players, meaning that the big ones that are -- have found the winning content, they are gaining market share, and then the weaker ones will lose ground. And by the way, all our markets, we see similar graphs than this, the current stages just somewhat different. It's been a very stable market, especially if you compare with, for example, new car dealer -- dealing. Back in 2022, we had the biggest deep [indiscernible] at least the early 90s. There were several big macro events happening at the same time. The interest rates shot up very rapidly in Euro area and Sweden as well. And then we had the Ukraine war that caused first the diesel prices to skyrocket and then the electricity prices followed then in the autumn. So that was clearly a shock to our market but then we've seen the rebound has been fastest in Germany, in Sweden last year was still quite stable versus previous. But in the beginning of this year, we have seen double-digit growth figures versus last year. So I suspect that market also to re-bounce back to the EUR 1.3 million, EUR 1.4 million annual number of sold cars that has been now the kind of level for the past decade. The next question, of course, what is driving this market? Why -- what is causing it to be this resilient and stable and still growing on a long-term perspective? And I think the main driver is the sustained need to move, for people to move from one place to another. And it turns out that still for most people who can afford it, the car is a preferred way to move around. And people need to get to work. They need to take their kids to the school. They need to go to their hobbies or they want to do so. And car just happens to be in many cases, the vehicle of choice. And if you can afford it, then you will likely have one or some people have 2. And you can see from the German statistics here that as wealth has increased and maybe amount of people has increased, the amount of cars has also been going up. Same thing in Finland and Sweden. One interesting aspect is also the age of the car parc and has been going up steadily in Germany, has been also going up steadily in Sweden and in Finland. And for example, in U.S. is a global thing. The age of the car parc goes up and that actually increases the share of the used car business of the total car market. What is driving this? Many things, but I believe the main thing is that unlike you might hear at the local bar, the cars of today are actually better engineered than cars of the past. And if you take, let's say, a German premium car that's been driven 100,000 kilometers, it's still a pretty nice car. It's almost the same experiences with a new car, but the price has come down by 40%. And I guess many people have figured out that with their budget, they can have a better driving experience by going to the used side. And cars are clearly used for a longer period of time. Then thinking about the market size, of course, the price factor is important in addition to PCs. Especially now in the past years with the pandemic and supply side constraints, we sort of -- prices showed up quite rapidly. Now it has come down to closer to, let's say, the long-term trend of increasing something in line with the inflation roughly. There are several other trends as well. The most powerful one we already discussed and there are other positives as well. Of course, there are trends also that drive to other direction. And what we see and what I believe that in the most urban areas, in the centers of big cities, likely the private car will decrease as a sale of transportation. There will be more solutions driven by lack of parking space or higher pricing charges or regulation. But when you go a little bit beyond the central areas, the story continues, and that's what also -- all these combined factors have been driving the total market and number of cars, upwards. So all in all, I believe that as a market, this continues to be a big opportunity. We are not limited by the market potential by any means. There's a lots and lots of revenue to be done there by taking market share from the weaker players and that's what we have been doing. And of course, that's what we are going to continue to do, and my colleagues will tell a bit more about the actual plans there. I would then next jump to the different business models. We, as you probably know, our omnichannel operator, meaning that we have -- we serve the customers in the channels that they prefer. We have a store or showroom network to back up all the operations and also as a purchasing and sales channel. Then we have a substantial remote sales operation, then we, of course, present in the digital channels as well. We have that all. We are not, let's say, pure play digital or just stores. We have all options available. And it turns out that in all our markets, the largest local player is an onmichannel operator. That's us in Finland, Riddermark, Beely in Sweden. And then in Germany, we have a company called Autoland. All of them are omni-channel operators. And in the pandemic years, of course, we had a big buzz around digital pure-play digital players. Being doing a little bit less well in the past years, one of the largest player in this field in Q4, lost some revenues versus previous years. So this is the model we operate. Now, of course, the digital part will -- has increased all the time and will increase in the future but it seems to be working well in all operating countries where we are, and that's where we want to -- that's how we want to play as well. The competition dynamics are a bit different. Our field of competition is a bit different by country. In Finland, we are mostly competing against companies specialized in used cars. They might be pure-play operators like us or they might be used car subsidiaries owned by branded dealers like [indiscernible] or some others. And in Sweden, we have a big of mixed bag. We have -- in top 6 players, we have 3 pure-play used car players and 3 franchise dealers that consist the top 6 of that market. And in Germany, the competition is mostly branded dealers. So you have very few actually specialized used car dealers that have more than 1 or 2 locations. So this is pretty, pretty fresh landscape from that perspective. And I would argue that in development phase, maybe the Finland is furthest and then probably Sweden and Germany will follow, in sense that the specialists will take more and more market share as we have seen to be the case in many other retail markets as well. Then 2 more trends shaping our business. Electrification is, of course, interesting one, a lot in the news. And in the new car side, that's very evident. When you look at Sweden and Finland, last year, more than 50% of the sold new cars could be charged, so that they were either 100% electric or plug-in hybrids. Germany is clearly lower. And actually, last year with the ended subsidies, the graph points downwards. But anyway, the overall trend is clear. The speed is a bit uncertain, the used car market -- new car market, sorry, but trend that will continue on the new car side and then used cars will follow by a few years lag. Here in the past years in Finland, as we -- the lag has been around 4 years of the electrification share. And right now in the used car side in Sweden, we are at 20% electric grade and Finland is 10 and Germany is a few percentage points, but that's a game that's increasing relevance. And of course, we want to be on top of that game as well, and we already are in many respects. The good thing is that fundamentally, buying and selling electric cars is a similar business to buying and selling any other powered cars, petrol cars or diesel. It's same business, but of course, we need to have an additional know-how to help us in purchasing and processing and selling these cars and some infrastructure to keep them charge. But this is clearly also an area where we have some development steps ongoing. And then the last trusted highlighting here is a preference towards fixed price car services, whether it would be leasing or some other type of an arrangement. These are on the rise, still quite small, a few percentage of the market total, but growing quite nicely. Reason for that, many reasons, probably, but I would argue 2 most important ones are, first of all, consumer uncertainty about the future of different fuel types. So before investing considerable money in a car, you might think that, okay, is it already a right time to buy an electric car should I wait for a year or 2 whatever? And then you have, especially among the younger population, you have a general preference of buying services with a monthly fee instead of buying stuff. So these 2 combined are driving the monthly fixed price car market. And of course, we also want to be and are in that scene. We a bit over a week ago, we announced the cooperation with the operator Beely that allows us to serve our customers with a wider solution in this area. And then we have some plans in our pocket for Germany and Sweden on financial leasing and so forth. So going also with the trend here. That was my presentation and now we have some time for questions on the topic...

Now time for questions. We have no questions from the webcast audience. So whilst they're thinking, perhaps we have some questions from the audience here. And we will have microphones if you just maybe raise your hand and you'll get a mic. Anyone? Very clear...

Regarding your last point of Kamux joining forces, for example, with Beely, and you also mentioned some plans in Sweden and Germany regarding financial leasing. So if I start with the Beely cooperation, what kind of value creation potential do you see in that business and thinking about Kamux's shareholders, how do you drive value with that cooperation?

I think that's a cooperation that allows us to serve whether consumer audience than before. And in that sense, it's a positive also for the shareholders. So essentially somebody who wants to go for this new type of service can now access also our car fleet and get the service that they want.

And in the financial targets you published today is -- do you include some potential from this cooperation?

That's inbuilt there, as is every other development plan we have.

And when do you plan to start offering financial leasing in Sweden and Germany?

Maybe that's something that I leave to my colleagues from Sweden and Germany.

Rauli?

Rauli here from Inderes. Hello. You mentioned the trend that the consumer to consumer trade is decreasing as we know in the used car market. So if -- and when that continues, does that mean that also you need to sell more of the older cars now sell from consumer to consumer?

Well, I think the shift is mostly from the -- a bit more expensive and newer cars being sold less and less from consumer to consumer, and the cheapest cars still continue to be sold mainly between consumers. And I don't think that trend will necessarily mean that we would have to go lower, we would gain the market share basically in the segments that we prefer from the consumer to consumer trade.

How much would you estimate this the kind of share of the section of the market, that this is kind of too low for to be interesting for you and which we would assume that remains in the consumer-to-consumer market?

Well, I would say that there's a difference whether between the cars that we take as a trading from consumer and the cars that we buy directly from the market. So as a trading, we are flexible. We want to help the customer to basically switch to a newer car that they prefer. And then we will help them with the trading situation. But then we would not buy, let's say, several thousand euros worth a car from the market. That's not our segment. And yes, there is no clear line. But clearly, need to be a bit newer fresher cars that we buy directly from the market.

Any further questions from the audience here?

[indiscernible]. There was a slide where used car prices in Germany were increasing. How about the margin that remains or margin that Kamux enjoys? Is it percentage-wise remaining at the same level or decreasing?

Our business model is the one as a trading business, and we take fairly short position to the cars that we buy. So for us, actually, the absolute level is not very meaningful in the price levels. We can operate on low price environment and a high price environment because then the purchase price will also adjust if the sales price adjusts. So this has no direct impact on the margin potential. Then if we have quick changes, very rapid change in the market, then it might happen that we have either negative or positive impact from the price changes. But let's say that the normal fluctuations will have very little relevance.

Very good. Thank you. Now it's time to move forward with the presentation, and we welcome Tapio on board next. Thank you.

So thank you, Vesa, for a very comprehensive presentation. And also thanks for excellent questions on the topic. So next, we will jump on the strategy as such. And I think this is team work. We've been doing this together with the team and I think we will entertain details as we do. I will do the overall pitch and then we'll do country by country. And I think the way we've been doing it -- it's in a 3-year plan. And we've done a road map for each individual country. We're going to follow it on a monthly, quarterly and annual basis to make it work. And I think we will keep you on board on the progress on all that. First of all, I think it's a team effort. And it's a team who is making it or breaking it. And I think now we have a team who can do it, that will execute, that will implement. And that's what is the most important thing. And that's what the team is working on day by day. And I think some of you who already had the first opportunity to see the stores. You can see some gradual changes on the stores and the way we behave and how we work with the customers, and those are going to be entertained more today. Then I think one of our guiding lights on the strategy as well as we -- it's a people strategy, and we need to have happy and motivated people on board. And I think on the performance of last year, we are extremely happy how we rated on that one, and I think we even raised the bar going forward. So our eNPS was very good last year, and we aim for even higher in that respect. So we are in a good going on that. Then I think we still do the basic things. We are very good in buying and selling cars. And on top of that, we try to do other things, and I will learn what type of other things we've done. We are already of some size. We passed the benchmark of 1 billion. We were slightly shy of 70,000 cars, and then we operate in 3 markets. And like Vesa explained, our position in Finland, we've been the innovator. We've been changing the game. We are the market leader over here. In Sweden, we are not. We are a challenger, but we are among the top 6, and we have a good room to grow. And then Germany, it's a huge market that we are a tiny, tiny player over there. But even though we are tiny, there are not too many of the big players. So I think we have a good opportunity on that one as well. Trend has been rather stable. And when you look at backwards, Kamux has been growing rather fast. We've been doing also good volume growth. Okay, then we get a bit of a hit with the pandemic, with the interest rate, war in Ukraine and all of that. And then the showrooms has been now flat on the go. But as you will learn today, we can open more showrooms, we will have a fully omnichannel approach and we will grow on top line and also profitability going forward. Then maybe on the previous strategy, I will not go too deep on that one, but it was not badly wrong. It was actually rather good and well done. Some of the execution were hampered by the conditions in the marketplace. And now we will take a recap. I will start implementing once again back to basics on that one, we'll do that. Omnichannel will prevail. We'll strengthen that. Process, I think you will learn today, we will have even more diligent and more efficient process taking it forward. And then the data, I think our own ERP, which is by the name of Kamux, we've been investing quite a bit time, effort and also money on that one. We feel that we have the state-of-the-art ERP in our system. So we can do wonders with the system. We still need to learn how to make it simple and visual for the people to make the right decisions, but the data we have. Then Vesa's team have the good insight on the marketplace. We have all the -- and this is an interesting market because all the data is available. It's almost online and it's also in the regional, even on a ZIP code in Finland. So you can follow what's happening, rather intimately in that respect. And by doing the right conclusions, that one you can win the game and I think we are on that path. Then I think I will jump on the next one. Like Vesa explained, the market segment go polarizing. And I think the big player is going to win, in the middle is going to be rather difficult. And then in the small end, going to be very challenging, unless you are specialized. If you are specialized in classic cars, sports cars, maybe utility vehicles, you can be successful. But on the upper end, with the volume, you need to have scale and scope in order to manage that one and that's where we are going. Kamux has been, maybe even the most economical in terms of the pricing. I think that position is maybe something, which is not defendable. We need to be good value for money, but we need to offer also to the other direction, a bit of scale and scope on the portfolio as well. And we will have more segmented approach on top of the lowest-priced car, we will have the medium and even to some of the upper-end cars available and also in the utility vehicles. And that's why instead of a very sharp bullet, we draw more of our ellipse positioning for Kamux going forward. Still, I think our vision unchanged, becoming the #1 in Europe, it's rather high flying. We are now #5, #6, depending how you count. But as Vesa already stated, we've been doing this fully organic without one exception, where we bought a very small local operator in [indiscernible], that's mainly buying the inventory and getting the location. So I think we have still room to do on this one. And as the market is consolidating, I think Kamux has a role on the consolidation and I think we will be proactive on that area as well. Then this is a busy slide, but I will take it in a very, very slow motion and take it easy. But I think we are part of the circular economy. That's in a way clear. Go greener, and there's a green heart, it means what we're going to be not only for the more sustainable option, but it's going to be more like Kamux used to be. Keep the customer in the epicenter of everything, deliver what the customer wants and likes and then we're going to be successful. And it started, we -- I think already -- in the past, we've been proven that we can improve our customer service. And we're going up on the latter. I think we are already quite okay in multiple areas in that respect. But our aim is to be the most friendly, the easiest one to work with and then to be the most trustworthy car retailer in the used car market. And I think we're going to be active, we're going to be proactive, but we're not going to be aggressive. I think that's where the limit is. And we try to help the customers to have the right solution. Then I think the price setting, with the old data we have, the system we have, we will go for centrally driven fair pricing in everything we do. And I think with the data, supported with the KM as we have and maybe even some support from the AI, we will have an excellent price set in both when selling the car, but also when buying the cars. And that's where we can be mastering the game. Then I think the trustworthiness is in a way, a prerequisite if -- and you need to have transparency on what you sell. And we are selling used items. They have had a different type of usage in between. And if you want to sell it on remote, on a digital platform, you need to be at the most transparent. That's what we are trying to do and highlight everything we can. And then people can have a look and they can buy it on the remote, and they can trust it's going to be good. And if not, we will help them to make it good in that respect. Then all the channels, I think this will not become fully digital. It's going to stay omnichannel, but the roads will change. And I think the new generation is more for the almost digital, if not the fully digital and in between, they do both. And like today, we when -- the stores didn't see too many people over there, but some people are coming in. When they come in, they come for purpose. They are not kicking the tires. They are not just day dreaming. They have something to do, and then we can help them. And the same applies for the digital world. When people go on our website, they are on the chat, they're already into something and then we need to help them to make the right choice in that respect. And then I think when the company was started, Kamux used to be the innovator of the industry. I think some of that we have left on the table. Now we will bring back on the table and do it step by step. Not all of those going to work and fly, but I think some of the ideas we have are really, really breakthrough ideas and we'll bring them to the marketplace. So that's in a way the soft side with the customer, then how we're going to do it. That's on the more operational side. And on the operations, this is like an industry, and you need to be really running the productivity and doing it the process way. And I think that's something where we can improve, and we've been improving, but we'll still have quite a long way to do that. And then on the sourcing, I think the sourcing -- and now we've been seeing that sales of number of new cars has gone down, maybe even further going down. Sweden, roughly the same, and Sweden even have been exposed with a big amount of cars being exported out of Sweden. So then our choice is to go to the European marketplace, go and buy directly from the fleets, the makers and in between. And I think you have entertain more on this area. Now that's where we can make a point of differentiation. Then on the refurbishment and the reconditioning and documentation of the car, in Germany, we've already been working some time with 2 partners, who have been helping us to industrialize the process. The similar pattern we have now piloted in Finland, and we'll share more about that. And I think when Andy is on the podium, we'll learn something about Sweden, which is all pointed in the same direction. The pricing, and I think that's where -- and things do change rather fast like we saw in the German situation, the prices on the EVs, prices on certain brands, then you need to be utmost active and proactive. And like Vesa said, we have deposits only very short time. So then you need to act and the earlier you act, the better you are. And I think the speed is part of the Kamux and we'll bring back the speed on that one as well. And then it's people, and I think we now have a good team of people, and I think we will hone, we will help people to train and learn new tricks and so that they will have all the focus on the customer at the other end. And on the other end, improve the process and productivity. So that's what we're going to be doing. Team work. And I think one of the Kamux strongholds have being utmost cost efficient. But during the pandemic and during a couple of other things, they were hampering the cost efficiency. Now we will bring it back on the track as well and do the productivity. And then I think the speed, speed is something where we can be better than anyone else. So with the data, with the knowledge of the market on the inside, we can do fast decisions, and that's how you're going to win on this market. And then a very, very thin line on the right-hand side of the slide, that's the M&A track. And I think Kamux will be part of the consolidation, one way or the other proactively. We may have a look on the car trading as such. In our existing markets, potentially new markets, don't have to be always a full buying of something, can be also teaming up partnering, strategic partnership or co-owning or then buying. And I think that's something we will learn. We've done our homework. We have long list what to do, how to do. And then we also have a list on the adjacent services, what to have a look, but there is no guarantee that they're going to be available today, next week or even next year. But at least we know what we are looking for what to do on that respect. Then I think the friendly, convenience, trustworthy customer service, quality, transparency and then the add-on services, the one who were already on the earlier tour today saw that we don't only sell the car. That's only half of the meal. Then you sell the finance. You sell the Kamux Plus in a way, warrant your guarantee. You sell the insurance and you can also sell other services. And I think in our innovation platform, we have some ideas what to do on top of that. And even today, you will learn some of the things we have coming up on the table. Then standardized operations. I think today, I will share some of that and Juha will share some of that sourcing. And I think having a look maybe for last year, we've been really sales-driven, it's important. Equally important is to buy well and buy smart. And I think today, we're going to be hearing about how to buy smart, how to have smart supply chain and what to do. And I think that's going to be also an added on opportunity for us. Processing and logistics. I think it can be also somewhat industrialized, not always because you don't know what is available next week in Germany. You don't know what is available in Sweden. You don't know what's going to happen in the eastern part of Finland this week or next week. They will come when they come, but you need to be prepared and you will be planning for how to do things forward on that one. Fixed pricing, maybe not, but centrally driven fair pricing. So prices are fair. And people who come to us, they know that, hey, these people, you cannot get the incremental EUR 1,000 away. You may do a bit of discussion, negotiation, but it's always fair at right price. But we're not going to go deep discounts and you cannot negotiate. And the people who are not intimately familiar with the car industrythey never know whether [ 63,999 ] is the right price. I think could it be [ 59? ] Yes, this one is sold. We don't give any [ 0.01 ] for discount. . So that's our idea. It's what it is. And then if time tells that it's not going to be sellable in a certain time, then we change the price. But we do it with a central driven model and make it work. So everything is sellable, the price has to be right. And then the people, these are the people who will do it. We will train and focus on people being highly performing on all of the markets. M&A, like we discussed already briefly is more or less both an opportunity in the car trading, maybe on the acquisitions and related services and can be partnering, can be strategic alliances and all of that. And I think like Vesa mentioned, we have not seen a lot of mergers and acquisitions on the used car business. New car business heading has been rather proactive and active. Some others have been following. Now I think there is a bit of a transition, what's going to happen and how it's going to happen, some of the families will be a long time in the business, they confuse, should we invest or should we step out or what should we do? And I think that's creating opportunities for our type of a player going forward in that respect. Then I think sustainability and ESG, and it's not by accident, we have the green color. I think we are part of the circular economy, no matter whether we like it or not, we are part of that, and we've been executing rather well on that area. The things we decided to measure is trustworthiness and we follow that with the NPS numbers. And I think today, you will learn how we've been doing that. Then I think we will not in a way oblige people to buy EVs or hybrids and low emission but we will help them to make the right choice. No ways to help to find the lowest emission car available on their needs and that's what we are doing. And then we are -- as the people business has to be thriving inclusive and also diversity in our way of operating. And a small detail, I think most of the -- or half of the customers by the area ladies, when we look at our people who do the customer service, we don't yet have 50% of the people helping the customers ladies. So I think that's something where we need to improve and will improve. And that's in a way the industry, when you go to any of the conference in the automobile industry, it's rather male driven. And I think we can also make a point of difference on that direction going forward. Then long-term targets and I think Jukka have a deeper dive on those later on. They are -- used to remember 100,000 cars equaling roughly 1.5 billion and then a profitability, which is adjusted EBIT margin of 4%. And those you may always ask, is this at the end of the strategy period? It's not. It's a couple of years thereafter. But on the other hand, if the M&A opportunities come, can be also earlier, but that's roughly where we are. And then on the nonfinancial things, we have the NPS for the group. We had a very nice number. We've been raising the bar now to 60. And then on the eNPS, we've been now raising it also substantially. But we are already very good and very happy for our past performance on '23. Now I think we are just recapping and then Katariina will come and help me with the questions.

We are ready for questions to Tapio, perhaps we'll take questions from the audience. I would expect there to be some.

Yes, Rauli from Inderes again. A question on the targets and the vision, which you reiterated to be Europe's largest. So do you expect to -- both in respect to the financial targets and that vision, do you believe that the current markets are enough? Or would it require for you to expand to new markets as well?

I think, especially on being the #1 in Europe, these 3 markets is clearly not enough. You need to go beyond that. And then you also need to have means how to do it. And by organic growth only, you cannot do it.

And about the financial targets, are those for the current markets or?

These financial targets are mainly for the current markets. And that's -- it's basically without any major M&A activity. It can be something very small but nothing major.

Yes. And do you have any time frame when you would be seeking to expand to the new markets? Is that possible in the strategic period you now outlined? Or is that further away?

I think, first, we need to make these 3 markets work, strengthen our position in Finland and be the clear market leader and an increased profitability. Make Sweden profitable, make Germany profitable and then we will take the next steps.

Further questions?

Pia Rosqvist. Regarding your growth target, you don't open up much about your ambitions now how to speed up growth in Finland versus Sweden and Germany. Can you shed any more details on this regional split?

I would maybe not like to steal the thunder from Jani, Andy and Martin. I think they will come. But I think we may come back to this one after the whole presentation, because then we got the highlights of Germany, Finland and Sweden.

Okay. And then regarding the different revenue streams, I mean, the split from used car sales versus other services, the other services or integrated services has represented some 5% to 6% of sales. The other services, you plan, should we think about you reaching 10% of the total sales? Or do you have any details on this?

We have not put it in that type of a perspective, but it's going to be gradually increasing part of the revenue stream and especially in the margin area that's enhancing the margin.

Then if I continue still on the mergers and acquisitions, can you help us imagine what kind of businesses you are looking at? Is it used car retailers in your current operating countries? Is it companies offering something completely different? Within new...

I think we try to keep as close to home in any case, something we know and we understand and can do. In that respect, it's very close to home. And then it's also the adjacent services. And I think on top of the used car retailing, I think ideas which will keep our customers in the epicenter and have a contact with the customer and dialogue with the customer, even between the time when they are changing the car. So something, which will keep the customer in the loop.

So could it mean car services, car maintenance services?

Maybe that as well, but I think that's not our stronghold, and we don't know it so well. If we would consider something like that, maybe then through a partner alliance that's something else. But we could also sell these services on behalf of someone. I think that's in the way where we think.

Okay. I'll continue with the questions later.

[indiscernible] from EQ. About the organization and leadership group, you have a quite new group. Is it now structurally ready? Or is there some areas you still want to strengthen?

I think it's structurally ready. And even though some of them being only a short time on board of Kamux. They have a long experience in other businesses where I think the analogy is roughly the same. And I think we've been -- with this team, we're working since Jan 1, and it feels longer and all of those have been part of building the strategy. And in that respect, feel rather good on what we have. And by the way, rather good is a Finnish understatement.

[indiscernible] and I'll continue on the topic that Pia just touched upon. And it's interesting regarding this M&A track. So -- and Vesa just pointed out the over time decreasing part of C2C businesses. So consumers selling their cars on platforms and more and more going to professional dealers. So in terms of M&A, I understand that you want to keep at home in omnichannel. But is there anything on the C2C platforms that you look at and think that would be nice to have in terms of the Kamux concept? Or is the C2C kind of autotalli.com and these platforms, are they completely out of scope in terms of interest for Kamux?

I think our logic on those one has been that if we would be deeply involved, even maybe potentially a major owner of some of the platforms that would turn off quite a lot of traffic and a lot of attention on that one. So in that respect, we would be maybe partnering, we could be co-owning but we would never be a majority owner of any of those. It's our current rate.

Okay. And then you clearly just mentioned the additional services that might be of interest for you in terms of acquisitions. But if we just think about buying a mirror picture of Kamux just on a smaller scale, is there anything in addition to buying the inventory, the car that you are kind of looking for in such a player?

Especially in entering areas where Kamux has not been, then you acquire also knowledge, you acquire know-how and you acquire contacts. And I think that's still clearly more valuable than the inventory only. This is people-to-people business and people appreciate brands. And whether you have reputation, the reputation, you can build and you can -- otherwise, you start from 0.

Good. Any further questions from the audience here?

And I'll be back. I'll be back.

Good. We do not have any questions from the webcast, the chat. So I'm counting on them to leave all their questions until the very end. Thank you, Tapio. Now it's time for Aino to come on board.

Okay. Aino Hokeberg, and I'm responsible for marketing and concept here at Kamux. And like Tapio told, started January 1, and excited to be here today to tell about our new strategy. We celebrated last year our 20th anniversary. As you can see on the Helsingin Sanomat first paid ad here. And if we go back to 20 years to 2003, there were no smartphones. There were just a sliding Nokias and the BlackBerrys you should remember. So how did we engage with our customers? Well, it was mainly the showrooms and then the interactions with the showroom personnel. But fast forwarding for today, the showrooms are still very important for us. But more than 9 out of 10 customers started purchasing journey online. We get more than 1.2 million visits monthly to our web pages. And that is how we engage with our customers today. We also do social media, of course, whether it's proactive advertising, extending our brand or reacting to customer questions or issues we want to take care of. Both online and remote channels are increasing, like Vesa told here in the beginning. And digitalization enables us to show our attractive assortment. It also enables us to show a lot of information about the cars, the enormous number of pictures and soon the videos. And all of these attracts more customers to our industry and to Kamux. Imagine the 1.2 million monthly visits to our web page. If we would translate that figure into what it would mean to showrooms, it would actually be 513 daily more visits per store. So that would actually keep our store personnel very busy. Despite of the fact that digitalization is increasing and more and more customers are moving to the digital channels, they will not replace the showrooms today. Majority of customers still want to see, touch and test drive the vehicles. How would you otherwise know how much headroom there is? So customers want a digital-first experience, combined with the online convenience, but then combine it with the reassurance of the store personnel. And there's a lot of things going on in the market. Vesa presented a few macro trends. And looking at the consumer point of view, one big shift is that the customers are no longer looking just one industry or one category. So for example, candy bags. We used to look at candy bags and tell, okay, which one is the best one? But now the shift is towards looking at the industry patent across industries. And if I have a great experience, for example, in a coffee shop, I expect the same experience from all the brands that I engage with. So the customer focus is going from one industry to patent industries. They also have higher expectation of the buying journey these days. They invest a lot of time in researching, comparing and deciding which brand to interact with. And this is what we have to deliver. They also have increased expectations of customer service. Customer service needs to know the needs of the customer, be empathetic and be friendly. And this is what we will deliver in our customer promise. And then customers want all of these in a seamless omnichannel way and experience. Some customers prefer digital channels, some remote, some showrooms, and a whole bunch of them want this in a combinations in their own unique way. And then technology is also driving the transparency in the market. Customers want to know more about the car, the history of the car, the condition of the car, the service records of the car. And this is what we will deliver. So to be able to deliver the customer promise presented here earlier and to be aligning with the market trends and the changing customer needs, we need to move from this multi-touch point model to true omnichannel experience. Customers are always connected and they expect the brands that they engage with, like Kamux will always be connected. And we need to offer a hybrid of online and remote and showrooms to our customers. To be able to deliver that in marketing, we need to focus on 5 key areas: One is the seamless omnichannel experience that I opened up. In that, we placed the customers in the middle and also bring the omnichannel elements to all of our channels. Then we'll also renew our store concept and our web concept. Again, customers in the middle and we need to find a way to have a unique experience and a unique look across our channels. This will also drive customer loyalty and trust. We will do store specializations, either whether it's a store or part of the store. So for example, can focus on EVs, utility vehicles or premium cars. And we have a new flagship coming up in a few weeks in Tampere in Finland, in Lakalaiva, which we are very excited about and we will already have some of these new elements from the new store concept. Then the third area is trust and building transparent quality. This is paramount in our business and in our markets. Customers are pretty -- sometimes pretty unsecured. They make a big investment. It's emotional purchase. And imagine when we can say that, hey, all of our cars are inspected by the third party. You have all the information of the car online available and we can also go through it together with the customer. So this decreases a lot, the increased riskiness that is combined with buying a used car today. Then the innovative services discussed earlier today, on top of increasing penetration of our current services like Kamux Plus. We will also introduce new services and new add-on products. For example, tire sales or charging boxes, all the way to the services in the mobility area. Then customer-centric service and customer satisfaction is a focus area for us. We measure customer experience closely and systematically and develop it based on the feedback we get. Today, we do it through NPS or Net Promoter Score, and the target is to reach 60 during the strategy period. We also want to focus on customer relationships and customer retention. To be able to deliver the meaningful experience with the trustworthiness, it will drive a longer and stronger customer associate for us. So we started to change the industry 20 years ago, and we have another great opportunity to continue to do so. We'll continue innovating with our services and with our offering and making our experience better and better all the time. This is done by delivering a unified, transparent, more personalized experience. And we really tailor it to the customer needs and no matter how they choose to buy or sell the car to us. And this is what we call the true Kamux experience.

We are now ready for questions. Pia please.

Regarding the transparency, so these full reports you talk about, can they be monetized? Or is this something consumers expect as an add-on free service?

Consumers expect to get a lot of information about the car, fully available online and also something that we can discuss and go through in the stores.

Okay. So it's not a service. It's not like EUR 10, you can add on to when you make a deal or sell the car?

No, they expect this information to be available.

Okay. Then can you reflect upon the differences between the Finnish and the Swedish consumer? Have you met any or experienced any differences in how you need to market and reach out to the consumers in these 2 markets?

I think we need to have a unified Kamux experience. So the cornerstones of the experience and how we want to sell or buy cars are quite similar across markets. So we want to be the transparent, the friendly, the reliable partner across the markets.

So just to specify -- I mean you meet -- or this works in both countries? So you haven't experienced any -- no need to alter the message?

Yes. Of course, there will be some market localizations that are our managing directors for each country can comment on, but the cornerstones apply for all markets.

And then finally, the NPS and the target over 60. So what was the level in 2023?

The level is around 60, depending on the market -- 50, depending on the market.

One of your points was this seamless omnichannel experience. So what are you currently missing or what do you -- what's the main things you want to improve or add there the kind of things you have as of today?

Yes. So becoming this seamless omnichannel company, it's a journey. And we have started working on it a few years ago. And what it means for us is that we need to know where the customers are and when and be there together with them and always be connected. So not just to the showrooms or telephones, but for example, through the chat, which we have now established in all markets.

So does that mean some kind of new systems or new data for you? Or is it more just kind of more the way of operating and how are you contacting the customers?

Well, it's about being able to provide a wide variety of touch points to the customers and being available so that they can engage with us in the way that they want to.

Martin?

I just want to make sure I understand. The Net Promoter Score, the 60. How is that measured? Is it basically like 6 out of 10 from customers? Or how is that defined?

Yes. The goal is the 60, but at the moment, the last year, it is around 50 depending on the market. So Net Promoter Score is based on the question that how likely is it that you recommend Kamux, either to a friend or a colleague? And then it's calculated based on a scale from 0 to 10, and 0 to 6 is the detractors, 9 to 10 are the loyals and promoters and then we have the middle people there from 7 to 8. And then it's a number were the low once I detracted from the detector. So that's the number.

And it's basically a set of questions, which are ranked from -- or that can be pointed from 0 to 10?

Yes, and based on the question, how would you recommend Kamux.

Any further questions from the audience? No further questions from the audience. And I'm starting to think that our webcast lines need to be checked. So if maybe someone on the webcast can just post a note saying, "Hello." So that I know that you guys are there and that the questions are coming through, if any, but again, expecting them at the very end. Thank you, Aino, and now we welcome Juha to the stage.

Hello, Juha Saarinen from sourcing. I'm going to walk you through how we are going to take Kamux sourcing to next level by strengthening our international sourcing and supply chain management, and how we're going to build trust worthiness in eyes of the customers, with standardized and industrialized processing of the car, meaning inspection and preparing the car for sale. And thirdly, how we're going to go to original sources of cars. We buy cars from 16 different European countries; so basically all over. And there are 3 main supply categories that cars are purchased from. Professional channel, meaning leasing companies, rental companies, other car dealers, auction houses, auction platforms. So basically, business-to-business type of purchasing. Then directly from consumers and thirdly, the trading of the cars. So meaning that customer comes to us and wants to buy a car from us and brings his or her old car to us as a trading. And in Kamux operating countries, actually, the main channel is different in each of the countries. In Finland, most of the cars that come in are tradings. When in Sweden, we do direct purchases from consumers, and that is more than 50% of the cars. In Germany, it's dominated by B2B purchases. So those professional channel cars. All of the cars that come in to Kamux's point-of-sale go through processing. And processing means preparing the car for sales. So washing, cleaning the car, inspecting the car, doing needed repairs, being big or small, might be paint work, might be some tire work and doing needed repairs. And of course, then modeling of the car, which includes also taking the photos. So that's what we mean with processing. And we can do processing either centralized or locally in stores and process is the same no matter where we do it. We do have processing centers at the moment in Finland, in north in Oulu, our own operated hub. And then we are just piloting in Southern Finland, operations with the outsourced model, supply there is [indiscernible]. In Germany, we are having 2 hubs, other one in nearby Düren and other one in Hamburg area. Both of those are operated as an outsourced model. In Sweden, we are looking for options still that how we're going to be doing it but these are the kind of like the main options there as well. So the 5 strategic priority areas for our supply chain in the strategy period are here. So cross-border collaboration, utilizing Kamux's presence and footprint in 3 countries more. We saw in Vesa's presentation that market in Germany is huge comparing to what it is in Finland. So we will go to market where the cars are so to Europe, and we will invest on that in purchasing team. Also strengthening the purchases from original sources. So minimizing the margin loss with those intermediate players, who are there taking their share from the value chain but not necessarily bringing the value as much as they could. So we aim to go directly to the original sources. Meaning also opportunity to purchase from bigger fleets and larger batches of cars. Then the centralized hubs for standardized quality. So increasing that, as mentioned, we have this pilot ongoing now in Southern Finland and planning to also do that in Sweden and already operating in Germany. But that really is about ensuring the standardized quality and also enabling certain maneuvers in supply chain like using them as a delivery center for logistics, routes, et cetera. Then this active and smart supply chain management. So we already have a good ways with our current ERP to see where our cars are and how we manage the supply chain. But we will also there take the next step to really see where our cars are and make sure that they are at the right place at the right time. And importantly, reducing the lead times with continuous improvement methodology. Because time is money in this business, meaning that the stock rotation, stock days of the cars, it's in essence. So also in the supply and inbound supply chain, every day that we can squeeze out will be good for us. And this active vendor management, we are also taking steps to take on the stronger grip, also the so-called indirect sourcing at Kamux, meaning like maintenance work, tire work, repairs, fixing of the cars, et cetera. And then about this quality and transparency for the customers. Actually, maybe I'll go to the next slide. So in Finland, kamux.fi, you can already find for some cars examples of condition report. So they are, as seen here, certified by Kamux and customer in Kamux's web page give their e-mail, and then they will get back the condition report of that individual car. And we're going to be increasing share of that in future. And also we are planning to have, at some point, a third party doing the inspection to also again increase the trustworthiness in eyes of the customer. So to summarize, so it's about industrialization and standardization of the operations and processing. We're going to be putting more effort on cross-border purchasing and international sourcing, going to original sources and bigger batches. And also using these hubs as bringing the trustworthiness and quality, a similar way of working everywhere at Kamux. And also then improving the visibility on our supply chain in a smart way and shortening the lead times.

Thank you, Juha. Again, time for questions, and let's begin with the audience and be hopeful for the webcast. But they're live, we've got several messages. Thank you for those.

Thank you. Regarding your sourcing strategy, and I hear you loud and clear about centralizing the operations and making it efficient from that perspective. I'm not quite sure I understand the advantages of kind of outsourcing that inspection in comparison to keeping that fully in-house. Can you explain that to me?

We have defined in very detail that how the inspection is done. And whether it's outsourced or in-sourced in our processing center, it will be done in the same way in Kamux way and that inspection report will be also entered in our ERP in a similar way whatsoever. The value add then if there is a third-party inspection report, like I think Andy will be talking today about in Sweden, we have today announced that we started a collaboration with a third-party inspection is that a customer might also value more if there is a third-party stamp on the inspection report.

Yes, very interesting topic. You mentioned that you source cars from 16 different countries. And I assume that you have your kind of favorite trades, so to say, picking from one country, selling to a specific one. But what can you say about -- assuming that the margin on the car is obviously depends on the car and -- but it's at some rate. So just thinking that you will bring a car from, I don't know, Central Europe with the flee, with ship to Finland and all the processing and stuff like that. So can you say anything about how much of the margin that goes to these kind of logistical costs? Because it's -- for an outsider, it's at the first glance, it's -- you feel like almost the whole margin is eating up by all the logistics. So what can you share and say about that?

If I give you a very rough and rounded number on how much the transportation of the car, let's say, from Germany to Finland is -- okay, I'll round it up, so EUR 1,000. That's a ballpark that you can maybe use.

And to -- maybe I asked that question later on the day.

Again I continue on a bit of the same topic. You mentioned that you want to increase or improve further the cross-border sourcing and have thought that you have been already doing quite a bit of that earlier. So are you looking to really significantly increase the quantity of the cars or the share of the cars being sourced cross-border? Or is there some qualitative elements you want to improve?

Yes. We have been doing it for a longer time and it's one of the, I think, strong points in Kamux and has been. But we are looking to increase it.

And what can you say how much will that be [indiscernible]?

It depends also on the market situation. So for example, now when Swedish crown has been weakening, Sweden has been actually the main channel to purchase cars to Finland. And if you go some years back, Germany might have been the main channel. So it depends on how also the market develops, what are the prices of the cars in different markets. Like how does the EV market in Germany behave, all these impact on it.

Okay. Good. And then you also said you want to decrease the amount of intermediaries or whatever in the sourcing value chain. So can you say some ballpark number on how much of your current purchases are coming through such intermediaries?

I don't think we have given that number out and I probably don't even have like an exact number for that to give. But that's our target, that we have those suppliers who add value there. And if there clearly is just like a middleman putting a markup on the car, not necessarily our supplier.

Okay. And then finally, you said that the sourcing channels in the different countries are pretty different. So does that itself have a impact on the margin levels on the various countries? Or is that just the way that the markets operate in various countries?

Not that much that I see that it would be impacting margin levels, but it's more impacting how we do the sourcing work and how it's conducted the transactional purchases but also how we source for the channels.

But we have questions from online. So we're going to take those here in between. Thank you, Marc-Lennart. How many days do you currently need to turn stock on average? And where do you think you can be in the future after the improvements are implemented? And connected to that, how can this improve your overall working capital?

We aim at 45 days of average stock.

And when we improve? That's after the improvements 45 days. Okay. Thank you. Pia, did you still have a question?

Yes. Thinking back on Kamux when you were listed, I'm trying to paint the road map now in my mind on how you're purchasing or sourcing strategy has looked like. So can you remind us how much is purchased locally at the showrooms say, in Finland versus -- or has it changed in any way? Are the ratio unchanged compared to, say, when you were listed?

I've been in the company 2 years. So it might be a question that I necessarily don't remember that far. But during my 2 years, it has not significantly changed. The share of the -- and we call them door purchases. So has been pretty much on the same level.

Okay. [ Mathius? ]

Yes, on the sourcing still, so just in terms of car dealership, it's been taking a while to understand the competitive advantage that the firm like Kamux can have. But in my mind, of course, a data-driven approach with a large volume is something that you could think that would have clear benefits. So in terms of buying cars, with the increased volumes that you now have, help me understand how much sense it is in assuming that with data and large volumes, you can kind of notice situations where a certain model, for example, I just throw this out, Volkswagen Golf, 1.4, year model 2015, is for some reason, spiking in demand in a country or in a city and you are able to source it, all of a sudden very cheaply in other location. So by -- this was just an example, but identifying the situation based on large own volume, sales volumes and data, how much of a reality is this? Or is it just like imagination in my mind? Is this actually happening? And what -- like what ways do you use in order to kind of find these lucrative situation, so to say.

It's everyday business for us. We do it every day, every week and we also have a process called demand supply planning, DSP, where sales, purchasing our data guys, and management comes together and we look at the data and we see these changes. But it's daily work that we look at the data, what is selling in the market, what is selling in our own stock. So it is very much reality what we do.

And in those situations, then that you would find like a large batch, for example, from a professional deal or something, isn't that then the case that you have a few number of fierce competitors that squeeze the margin. And I can just imagine this professional leader calling through all the 5 best price wins. And so -- is this on a daily basis, the case that you have this fierce price competition on those batches? Or is there any way that you can kind of get on top of the legal, so to say?

Yes, there is no way that there would not be competition. There's always several others who are bidding. So we just need to be the one who then gives the best offer. And it's kind of fitting our need, what's there in the batch because, of course, the batch also is consisting of individual cars and car is sold, then we sell it as an individual car. So we need to really look into details of what cars there is in the batch.

Maybe if we have a mic for...

Yes. So I want to make a comment on your question. Martin Verrelli, MD from Germany. What we are currently doing and what the advantage of Kamux is our international presence. Right at this moment, you may know that the used EV market in Germany is more or less not existing, was it is existing in the Nordics. So in that regard, we have a huge advantage with this international organization. We can buy the EVs for low prices in Germany and get them to Finland. And that's -- which brings us ahead of a lot of competitors.

Great. Thank you for great questions. And now I think it is time for a break. We will be back at quarter to 4. So 20 minutes break and look forward to seeing you back then. [Break]

Welcome back. We are ready to continue with Kamux's Capital Markets Day. And next, we have the country presentations, and I welcome on stage, Jani Koivu, who's the Managing Director for Kamux Finland. Welcome.

Hello, everyone. My name is Jani Koivu. I'm the Managing Director for Kamux Finland. In Finland, we are the market leader, what comes to the volume, number of sold cars and also what comes to the revenue. And we have a 46 showrooms nationwide in the whole Finland. And we are also -- that many might not know, we're also the market leader in utility vehicles, clear market leader in utility vehicles. We have processing center in Oulu and also, you have mentioned earlier that we have a partnership with [indiscernible] on piloting processing center in southern part of the Finland. You can see here the revenue and profitability numbers. And as you can see -- and had good numbers of cars sold. You can see after a difficult '22, we got back to the speed on Q2 last year and then the second half was already somewhat better and the direction is good. Our aim in Finland is to strengthen the position as the market leader, both in volume and also in revenue. And it's a key folder, it comes with -- we grow the volume, i.e., the sold cars, but also that we shift the business a little bit towards the more expensive cars like EVs, hybrids and so forth, in order to drive the average price of the sold car. Also, we will scale up the commercial utility business, commercial vehicle business, and we have a lot of services around that one. And we measure that business separately at own staff for that one and own locations as well. Then we have a lot of add-on sales. And historically, Kamux sale has been pretty good on integrated services. We will push that one even further. There's much more growth to be done. And also, we have -- we will have a new services such as accessories, EVs, charging kits, cables. And also, we will take a little bit back that innovating theme what was originated from Kamux's history, to piloting new services to the market. We will have something around tires and so forth. On network optimization, we will move towards the large showrooms. You already saw today, some of you saw today, our [indiscernible], which was upgraded. We have done quite a few in Helsinki capital region. Aino was mentioning that we are opening our flagship store over 400 cars in Tampere, Lakalaiva in early April. And also, we will build dedicated sections in our showrooms towards the EVs, hybrids, premiums and so forth. Central standardized inspections. We have started the piloting the condition report. We have now cars over EUR 50,000 available online. And our aim is to bring it down to -- all the cars above EUR 15,000. Furthermore, on pricing, I already mentioned earlier, we will have a centrally driven fair pricing, either you buy or sell cars, the consumers note that they get the best price from us. Strengthening the leading position comes from the rework retail network. We will have a more focused showroom concepts, upgrade large stores, new flagship stores. And also, we will be building the stores in Jyväskylä, Turku, northern Finland, Helsinki region. And then smaller stores, we upgrade them or close them. As said earlier, improved offering on EVs, blocking hybrids and a more focused approach on the concept -- Kamux concept in mind. We see a lot of potential in commercial vehicle concept and offering. We will drive that one even further. And the whole idea behind all of this one is to drive the profit orientation, how we lead the business in Finland and also enhance the productivity because we do have the scale. Customers are always the king in the center, epicenter, as you may say, and this is what we will take a huge focus going forward, now on a strategic period. And then the new services, like mentioned earlier, when the owning, for example, owning a car is not an option. We have services for that one going forward. Excellence in customer experience with transparent omnichannel concept, as Aino was explaining earlier, we need both the brick-and-mortar, but also the online. We have a selection of cars and services to build to match them on customer needs in Finland. We have the largest car selection in Finland. We got currently 5,100 cars in country for sale. And then we will plan to and already started to utilize more our cross-selling opportunities. We have 1,600 cars in Sweden, just over 1,000 in Germany. We have altogether 7,000 -- nearly 7,800 cars today, what is available for our customers in Finland. If that is not enough, we can find you one.

We are ready for questions, and Pia begins.

You talk now a lot about centrally-driven fair pricing. So can you give me some concrete examples on how you change your way of working now? And how does this differ from your previous way of pricing cars?

We have a lot of data as being mentioned earlier, both our own data, but also in Finland, there's market data available as well. As Juha mentioned earlier, with the ship go and so forth. We also have the data about repair cost, after cost, something related to cars life cycle already from our own data. And then we have a data what cross selling very fast. For example, the BMW over there that we got it in here, now sold. So then that might mean that we need to a little bit maybe have a different kind of pricing approach of that one to buy them even more or something like that. So our idea is that with our ERP, which is called KMS Kamux Management System, we will bring a tool to help our sellers and purchasers to have with the data, both in the market but with our own to support the pricing decisions.

Okay. Then regarding your showrooms, you have 46 now. So the net level after the changes of increasing the size of some and closing some smaller. So is 46 kind of the level where Kamux will be now during the new strategy period?

That remains to be seen. We are working on it.

Pretty much the same question, but I'll continue on it. So I think you have quite a lot more stores than your main competitor. So do you think you have some advantage on your wide store network? Or do you think that if the customers go more and more online, you could do with like clearly fewer number of stores that you have today?

I think we have -- if you go to the smaller cities and smaller locations, Finland will be clear #1 over there as well by country mile, if you may say. We definitely need to beef up our store network in capital region area, Turku, centrally Finland as well. And we will shall see how it goes, but the whole idea is to move to the larger locations in order to have a better offering of the cars for consumers at the one location when you come over there. We might have a few less during the 3-year period, if you may say, but that needs to be seen.

Any further questions from the audience? And our webcast audience seems to be very satisfied with the delivery. Again, no questions. So thank you, Jani. And we are ready to move forward with Sweden and Andy. Welcome.

All right. Hello, everyone. My name is Andy Rietschel, and I'm the new, I would say, Managing Director for Sweden. Today, we will talk a little bit more about how we will strengthen the Swedish business to ensure profitability in the new strategic period. As mentioned before by Tapio, Kamux is a market challenger and we are the #6 in Sweden at current time. We have approximately 26% of the consolidated group revenue and we have a more or less nationwide presence with 23 locations as of 31st of December 2023. We have grown really fast in Sweden in the past years and consolidated that growth a little bit in the past couple of years. But we also need to look forward, and we will take a lot of interesting steps in the strategic period to actually grow further again, both in terms of revenue and in terms of sold cars. Maybe this is the most interesting slide. A lot of information but also a lot of the focus on. A lot of the information where we will focus on in the coming 2 years. What we had noticed when I came in as well and even before that, is that since we grow very fast in Sweden, we had more or less 23 separate units, not really currently working as one team. And this is obviously a really important part of strengthening and streamlining all the core processes to enhance the customer focus, to rebuild the teamwork and the confidence that comes with working as a team. With that obviously also comes the productivity improvements and how we can improve cost control by setting the right processes and make sure that we have the right resources in place. And at the same time, as also Tapio mentioned in the end of year report, we noticed a little bit of misconduct, which we have corrected. And going forward, I think what -- if we set the right processes and routines and how we do things, that will also be a thing of the past. Overall volume increase is really important, as we mentioned in terms of revenue, in terms of growth of volume, we -- it has been mentioned many times before today, but the focus of having the right cars in the right place is key to that. But also how we increased the add-on sales and the new products in terms of -- for instance, tire sales implementation. So tire sales, obviously, in the Swedish and Finnish market is really important, to have an extra set of wheels for winter season. And that is a really important thing that we will push much harder going forward. Also financing, and I can answer the question regarding financial lease already now. When is it coming to Sweden is already there, has been. We are working together with 2 of the main partners of financing, [ DNB Santander ] for financial lease. So that is something that we already have in place. But that level needs to increase and we need to also increase the level of insurance and Kamux Plus warranty services, as well as adding even more things such as leasing and private leasing options for the customers. Wood growth also comes increasing the store network, really important to have the right places, the right locations. Jani was talking a little bit about it for Finland. Obviously, it's the same, is true for Sweden. We have to adjust the network as we become more unified and we need to have a countrywide presence in the right locations and to give the right opportunities. Part of this whole centralization theme is also obviously to clarify the Kamux concept for all stores in Sweden. We need to make it clear what values are the Kamux values for both internal and external, to grow the brand awareness in Sweden, where we have a little bit further to go. It's not as commonly known as in Finland. So this is really important as we move into the strategic period as well. And also, as Juha mentioned previously, we are also looking at establishing this hub concept. But more important to build the trust for the customer, the trustworthiness, it's super important to have the third-party inspections for all the cars sold in Sweden. And I'm really happy to announce actually today that we have signed partnership agreements with 2 of the main players for this in Sweden, Opus and Svensk Bilprovning, and they are super excited to get started with us. And also, this feels really good for us as a retailer to be able to tell our customer the built in added value into this -- in our products. Same concept goes for pricing as all the other countries, obviously, centrally-driven fair pricing is a key. I know from previous experiences that this is something that is definitely possible. And this is something that will improve the customer experience but also our margins going forward. We spoke a little bit about adding and looking at the network. Something that is very clear looking at Sweden as a very, very long country and big countries that we are currently not present in the northern -- further northern part of Sweden. We know that there is a market there, in particular along the coastal regions. And also in that really far north, there are cross-sell opportunities with Finland. So this is something that we are planning to enter within this period and we will get back to you when we open those showrooms. We also need to look at the current locations. How are they today? Are they too small? Are they in the wrong locations? Can they be upgraded in some way to improve the efficiency and productivity of the current showrooms in the key cities? So there will be some adjustments but they become natural as we grow and look how we can be more efficient in the network. And last but not least, it's important to say as well that the market is, in some sense, it's a lot of dynamics happening in the market. So we need to be ready to catch opportunities if they arise, whether it is to buy competitors when they close. There has been a couple of closures for new car businesses, particularly for the private leases coming back, where they have taken residual values and they cannot sustain that in their balance sheets. Those opportunities could be very, very interesting for us, both in terms of buying fleets, but also in terms of looking at new locations. Going back to the profitability. Super important, obviously. You cannot build a house without a good foundation. This is the core. So we need to strengthen this a little bit more with the processes and the policies. And we make sure that -- we need to make sure that also the corrective measures are being done with the productivity improvements and the cost control, as mentioned before. The showroom upgrades is also very much part of this, as mentioned before, what we saw -- some of us saw earlier today will obviously also come to Sweden to upgrade the showrooms in a good way. We will also expand home deliveries, really important with such a big country of Sweden, to give the absolutely best customer experience. And then obviously, car offering, I come from the EV industry. I think that's quite clear as well from those who have spoken with before, and I think this is a really important thing. It's a natural transition, as we've shown before. Vesa showed a nice graph of the growth of the new car market also happening in the secondhand and used car market. It's a natural transition that we will grow EVs and plug-in hybrids also here. And once again, the add-on services and increase the tire sales penetration is also a really important key to the profitability in Sweden. Last but not least, the competitive advantage to ensure profitability, obviously. We have the fantastic opportunity of a nationwide more or less coverage and the cross-sell opportunities that give. We have the expansion of a very clear omnichannel concept, and obviously, the international sourcing and availability of cars from Finland and Germany will also support this competitive edge. So happy to take any questions.

Yes. So we will begin taking questions from the audience here. Go ahead, Pia.

You did not mention a lot about sourcing in Sweden. Sweden has been a market where all the players have sourced cars. So do you see this sourcing as a challenge or an opportunity for you to grow?

I mean, sourcing is always on top of our mind. It's -- I told the team that it's one of the most important thing. It's how we do business. We need to buy first to be able to sell. So -- but also as Juha showed, I think there are different channels we need to look at, and we need to look at the most efficient ones. Currently, the main channel is from private individuals that we're buying but we need to look at how can we expand that into other channels as well. But this is also a group effort in many ways. We have -- we must not forget that we have the competitive advantage of getting cars from other countries as well and whether it is that we give cars to, not give, but we transfer cars to Germany or Finland or the other way around.

Then regarding the volume increase, can you quantify the volume increase you look for now during the strategy period or to meet your long-term financial targets?

Well, it's obviously a good question. And I understand that, that's something that would be interesting to hear. But of course, we have our targets and how we will move forward with those. But I think that also depends on how we execute on the network growth and how we adjust that part.

And regarding the network growth, I think during the past 2 years or last year, at least, it has become evident that Kamux has the network, but lacks the volume. So do you really need to expand your presence with more showrooms? Or can you just grow happily with the current network?

Well, I think, once again, we grew very fast in Sweden. And with that came the fact that maybe we didn't actually grow the showrooms in the absolutely right locations, maybe in the right cities, but not in the right locations with the right sizes. So some of our showrooms are fairly small. Obviously, they can be larger and we can -- so I get some benefit of scale by essentially switching houses.

Okay. And then you discussed the brand awareness. So what kind of marketing investments or how do you plan to step up the marketing to get Kamux more visible in Sweden?

Well, I think today is a great start, right? We can finally start to talk about our new brand concept. We can show what we want to do and I think these are key ingredients to really step up the marketing efforts and to show where we want to go and how we want to do it. Once again, as Tapio mentioned, it's about trustworthiness. And I think that's a big key to everything that we will do going forward in Sweden in the used car market, also Swedes, they want to have a very trustworthy car deal when they buy a car. So everything that we do now and going forward will point towards that direction.

Okay. But just in terms of euros or Swedish krona. So I mean, what kind of investment levels, is this significant or business as usual?

No. But this is a group effort, right? And I think you can do a lot with little, so to say, as long as you have the right message.

A couple of ones from me. You mentioned that you have been operating more as a like an independent stores than a unified country company. So where are -- do you think you are in kind of that process, because I would imagine that changing that kind of way of working and culture is not an overnight process. So are you in the beginning or closer to the end of changing it?

No. But I think that the Kamux way of doing things and the culture has always been there. I think it's just a matter of making sure that we are aligned fully on the processes and the routines and exactly how to do things and how we meet the customers and what the store looks like, and that a customer would feel at home, whether they come to a store in Stockholm or in Gothenburg or in Orebro. And I think that's really what the main point here is.

Are those type of changes that should happen during this year or during the strategic period or what's the time frame?

It's a continuous work. But definitely, it's -- that's our aim.

Okay. And then regarding the integrated services, I think if I look at your numbers, your penetrations are actually fairly okay in Sweden if we compare it to Finland, but my understanding is that your contracts are such that you are making clearly less money on those kind of similar penetration. So is there -- do you think there is a chance that during the start of this period, where you're starting now that you would be able to make a significantly better contract terms for you in terms of integrated services, I guess, mostly financing?

No. But this is obviously something that we're reviewing constantly and looking at the market offer and how we can make our add-on services as attractive as possible. I think in general, in Sweden, it's very clear that you finance your car in some way in one way or the other, independent if it's a new car or used car. So it's -- I think that's a natural way of transitioning towards looking at what the customer actually wants. And I think we can always improve on those skills, whether it is financing or insurers or Kamux Plus or wheel sets in that sense. So that is something that we we're working on this to get even better penetration rates.

We have a couple of questions from the online. In terms of market share, which rank could you be organically in next 3 to 5 years?

Yes, that's a good question. No. But I mean at the end of the day, we are going to grow and the main growth, as mentioned before will be organic. Whether there will be opportunities that arise remains to be seen and how that will add on to the growth.

Another one, how long do you think it will take you to get back to more meaningful profitability?

That's a good question. We obviously have very similar targets as the group in general. And I think that looking at how we starting to work in the organization, we're putting new KPIs and new measures that should give effect in both short, medium and long term. So this is on top of our mind constantly, how we're going to improve this profitability part.

Okay. Perhaps in the end Q&A, we might come back to some of the timings as well. Let's take one more question from the audience. And the question that we have remaining from the web audience is also something that we're going to save to the end. Go ahead, Mathius.

Yes. So Kamux Sweden is an interesting part and in a very different situation than Kamux Finland, where volumes are on a different level and profitability and so on, also having a clear market-leading position. So help me a little bit understand, which fight or which fights you think are the most significant ones in order to take on Riddermark and the other top 5s, in order for a Finnish-based company to slowly but surely gaining market share in Sweden.

Well, I think, first of all, just going back to one of the first slides that Vesa showed. I mean the market is incredibly fragmentized, and there is a big opportunity for everyone in that sense. At the same time, the Swedish market is about twice the size as the Finnish market, challenging my colleague, Jani. But jokes aside, I think -- we all work in a little bit different ways. I could not say much about how our competitors work, only how we plan to implement our priorities during this period. And with that, there will be -- as far as we believe and think, a growth in the numbers based on that.

Thank you. Now it's time to move forward and then we may take further questions at the end. Next, we have Martin Verrelli, from our German business. Welcome.

Martin Verrelli from Kamux in Germany. Yes, Germany, the biggest market in terms of size, the smallest Kamux market at the moment, we will see. Kamux started its operations a few years ago, 8 years ago in the northern part of Germany in Hamburg and Schleswig-Holstein. Kamux GMBH represents 9% of the group revenue. And at the moment, we are running 9 showrooms in Germany. Last year, we moved out of the metropolitan area, Hamburg. We opened a store close to the Belgium and Dutch border in Düren [indiscernible]. And at the end of the year, we opened a store in Hameln, which is North Rhine-Westphalia so that we are now, as I said, a bit more spread. Kamux grew relatively fast over the last year. Last year, sorry, in 2022 due to some external impact, war, corona crisis, lack of supply, which was the main driver. We did not grow. And now for this year and for the future, it's all about profitability. What we did last year, we focused on implementing processes to make this business scalable. It doesn't make sense to open stores in such a big country like Germany, if you do not have processes that you can replicate and that will help you to scale the business. How are we going to achieve our profitability or profitability targets? First of all, sounds very obvious, by volume. As I said, we have worked on the processes last year and are still working on them, are improving them. So now we will, by organic growth, achieve higher volumes. One thing we also did, we moved back a little bit from the more expensive cars to somehow cheaper cars, more in the direction of the cars that our colleagues in Finland and Sweden are selling. And that will help us as the market there shows higher margins and much higher volume than the sectors that we were acting in before. One focus area for us in Germany is to the Kamux -- everybody in Finland knows Kamux. In Sweden, it's also relatively well known. In Germany, we are not yet well known. In the northern part of Germany, Hamburg area, yes, but in the rest of the country, not so much. So that's something we need to work on. We also need to work on our add-on sales on other products, financing and I cannot say guarantees because we do not sell guarantees in Germany, that's legally not correct. We sell repair cost insurances. That's practically the same thing, legally, it's a different thing. Therefore, it's quite important to be precise. Something else we are doing at the moment, we will be starting to sell leasing contracts from April in Germany in -- starting with 3 stores as a pilot. That's specifically of interest for small businesses, independent companies. They have a tax advantage of leasing in Germany. So far, we haven't done this. Now we can also attract those companies, those customer groups that will also help us to move the business forward in 2 senses. First of all, we attract new customer groups. We can sell more cars and we can sell this additional service as well. Showroom network, what I already mentioned at the beginning, after last year, we were focused mainly on Hamburg and parts of Schleswig-Holstein. We have relocated one store there in Heide. We are relocating another one this month in close to Hamburg. We have opened 2 new stores last year, and we are going to open another one in the Southwestern part of Germany in 2 weeks' time. What we have also done, and that's quite important for us. We talked about processes earlier. We have these hub partnerships. So the 2 hubs, Juha already mentioned them in Duren and in close to Hamburg [indiscernible] Street, where we process our cars. The aim was and it works quite well to, first of all, speed up process. And secondly, also to increase the quality of our cars that we sell to our customers. And of course, as everything we do, we do it for our customers. We want to sell better quality, but we also want to monetize this better quality and that's the idea behind these processes. And there was a question earlier about stock days. Maybe I can -- to show you that we are relatively efficient here. Two weeks ago, the numbers for 2023 were published by the Deutsche Automobile Treuhand, DAT. The average stock days in Germany for used cars in the network is roughly 100 days. And we, today, in Kamux, Germany, we had 39-point something. So we have quite some efficient processes in the meantime. And we will continue these operations where we open new stores, of course. We will benefit from the economies of scale that we are having there. Yes, one other point that also my colleagues already mentioned, the centrally-driven fair pricing. As Jani mentioned it in his presentation, it's exactly the same in Germany. We want to be fair when we buy cars from customers, C2B which is at the moment, a smaller scale compared to the other markets. Our -- the majority of our sourcing really comes from the fleet set. We are buying manufacturers, leasing companies and others. So there's room for improvement. Therefore, fair pricing is very important for us to get more cars. And on the other side, when we sell cars, we also want to show our customers that we have the best quality for the best price. We talked about this already, the saw network you can -- on the map, you can see that the strong focus on Northern Germany, 2 stores opened already. The next one will also be in Southwestern part of Germany. And later on, we will move into Eastern Germany. Why are we doing this? Southwestern part of Germany is an area with very high card density and a very high used car demand. People need cars to go to work there. In Eastern Germany, it's mainly lack of public transportation. So also there, there is a huge demand for cars, and that's where we think we should be and where we should act. And by the way, especially Southwestern part of Germany, the competition is relatively weak or not existing. In a sense, there is no big used car brands. It's different in Eastern Germany, but in the area where we are expanding at the moment, we find -- I wouldn't say greenfield, but there is enough room for us. What we have also done already, what I mentioned, we have upgraded our showroom in Hamburg. We relocated one store, are relocating another one and are working on some of the existing stores as well. Building up scale. What is important for us, selection of cars. We heard about sourcing earlier. Sourcing is key and in used car business, it starts and it ends with sourcing. If you buy the wrong cars for the wrong price, you will never get profitable. So that's, yes, why we really needs to continue to focus on. And I think we are doing quite a good job there already, can be improved, but it's okay. Third-party processing of cars, as I said, the quality of what we are offering our customers today is much better than what we have offered 2 years ago or 1.5 years ago. And the time we need and that was our biggest fear that the process would slow down, because we have to transport the cars to those hubs, then they get prepared and then they get transported to the stores. In the past, cars got transported directly to the stores, cleaned, repaired in the store and they were ready for sale. But as I mentioned earlier, that's not a problem at all. The processing times are really good and recently, we also gained some days because of the transportation times, which were a problem during the -- at the beginning of the Ukraine war, that has normalized again. What we are doing now, in April, we will be starting with independent third-party inspection reports as a pilot in 3 stores in Hameln, in Duren, and the new store that we are going to open. Why independents? It's not a Kamux report. It's from an independent assessment company [indiscernible]. Germans needs certificates. They love it. That will help us to gain trust. We will be very transparent with those reports and the customer can really get a good impression on the real condition of the car. And there was a question earlier, if we sell those reports, and I know rightly said, no, no, we do not sell them. It's -- on the other side, it's also not free of charge, of course. The business case here is very easy. The cost for such a report at the moment are between EUR 65 and EUR 75 that we pay, but we are expecting that we will be able to charge between EUR 200 and EUR 300 and for the more expensive cars, even a bit more with having such a report. And I mean that's, from my point of view, a pretty straightforward business case in our business. I mentioned already the integration -- integrated services, we are increasing or inventing something new to leasing, which we didn't have until now. We are professionalizing our tire sales. That was something we have done aside. Now we are doing it in a more professional way. And again, sourcing, our main topic, we have now, since last year, been able to purchase cars directly from manufacturers. That's something we will expand further. We have contracts also with leasing companies where we can source cars from which will secure that we have enough volume to really, yes, be able to grow as fast and as much as we want. Our strength, our USPs in Germany, again, sourcing, we can offer really favorable prices to our customers. Why we have the professional sourcing. We have different sources. So we also have a huge variety of cars, and we have quite strict cost management. And as I said, 2 or 3 times already our processes are in pretty good shape in the moment -- at the moment. Then easiness is also quite important. Not sure how familiar you guys are with Germany but when we talk about digitalization, Germany is not really, yes, advanced, let's put it like this. So we can really do contracts, yes, digital for car and for financing. And really in Germany, it's something special. You might think, okay, fine, but we've been approached by many potential partners who cannot offer digital contracting banks. And that's something we won't do because our customers are in the meantime, used to this, yes, modern way of buying and selling cars. And last but not least, what we already mentioned earlier, our international capabilities. We can sell cars or our colleagues in Sweden and Finland can sell cars from our stock. And we at the same time, we have access to stock in those markets. And that's something that not many players in Germany to have. So that's also not a USP that we can offer. And that's it from my side.

So we are ready for questions to Martin. Pia, please go ahead.

Thank you. So I hear it loud and clear that you are expanding steadily in Germany. So choosing the location is, of course, key. So how do you manage the risk? I mean, in expansion, choosing the right location and deciding upon the correct size of the showroom. So it's not too small, not too large. How do you do -- and how are your plans looking like?

When we look at locations, we have, at the moment, if you want, that might sound a bit cynical, but we have the advantage that a lot of dealerships are closing down in Germany. The franchise dealers, many of them stop business because of manufacturers changing their model. They are moving to an agency model. And that gives us the opportunity to take over quite good locations, and that's what we are looking for, to be honest, these kind of stores. Then, of course, we do an analysis of population density, population age, used car density or car density demand, we check the situation of public transportation and a few other factors. And then we take a decision, we do business case calculations and our Board of Directors then approve or doesn't approve, whatever, our business case. So that's the way we do. We try to be as data-driven as possible and not just say, I like the trees around the store or whatever. So...

There's a question directly linked to this from the webcast. Why don't you go south, for example, Munich? Big population, a lot of used cars to buy.

First of all, we go south, as you can see, logistic-wise, it makes sense to not go from Hamburg next step to Munich. Because Then you do not have anything in between, and the distances are quite big. At the moment, we can -- with the 2 hubs, we can serve both -- all the stores. So the distances are under control. That's quite important. Second answer, especially to Munich, I don't think that Munich is the best location to open a used car business, to be very honest. When you look at the percentage of new cars sold and used cars sold, in the Munich area, particularly, then there are other regions which are favorable.

So is Munich a sourcing market then?

Well, it depends. I mean, the sourcing market, the way we do sourcing is we source cars from fleets, leasing companies manufacturers, and we sourcing from them. So yes, there is a manufacturer in Munich. And yes, there is also a leasing company in Munich, from that regard, yes, but the remarketing is going on in other parts of Germany.

Okay. Very good.

If I can continue, you talked about the lease, about buying from leasing companies and from manufacturers. So how does that work with your strategy towards lower price points.

Yes, we have -- I mean, we have leasing companies. The cars that we are interested in are mainly of the age of between 2 and 5 years. We have certain relatively strict regulations, accident-free limits with the mileage. So we try not to buy cars with more than 100,000 kilometers. That's -- and then we have also a list of vehicles which we do not buy. So because the risk for us is too big. The price that we are aiming for, the average sales price that we are aiming for at the moment is between EUR 18,000 and EUR 19,000. So from that regard, cars between 3 and 5 years, very often match in that area. And yes, especially of the non-premium brands, including Volkswagen, we very often have cars that fit in there, plus the smaller models from BMW, Mercedes and Audi as well.

Okay. Let's take one more question from the webcast and then the rest of the questions, we leave till the end of the presentation. What is the main reason for not being profitable in Germany? And why -- what is the way to get profitable?

Yes. So the main reason why we have not been profitable is we had no processes in Germany. We were running 7 or 8 independent stores and we did not benefit from the economies of scale. And the answer how to get profitable is increase the volume and lift the processes that we have invented.

Very good. Thank you, Martin. Now we are going to move forward with the financials, and I welcome Jukka Havia.

Good afternoon. So we are closing -- we are close to be at the final stretches of the afternoon. And what I'm going to do, I'm going to tell you how we're going to drive the performance, so that's now linked to what Tapio already mentioned, the financial and nonfinancial long-term targets and give you a little bit more perspective on those. And if you look at now, what we have done, we have set the targets, which we published this morning for the long term. And like Tapio noted, we haven't explicitly defined the time frame. It's long term. We're going to do the strategy actions that have been discussed earlier today in Sweden, in Finland, in Germany, and in sourcing in [ INS ] marketing area, and they're going to then drive us towards these targets. So we have set the aim and target, and we think these are doable we think and we believe we can do this organically. And then if needed and if the opportunities arise, now we have an additional option to utilize M&A as well, either to accelerate the development, speed it up or alternatively, to add something on our offering. Of the targets, the first one is linked to the volume. So in total as a group, we aim to sell 100,000 cars per year. So that's the annual target. Secondly, as far as the value of the sales is concerned, our aim to be at EUR 1.5 billion in the long term. Thirdly, and that is important, the growth which we aim to do shall be profitable. And how we're going to measure profitability is as a relative, which is a percentage of that revenue. So the adjusted EBIT margin target set at 4%. So that is the financial set of targets. Before going on to the nonfinancials, referring to what was asked earlier in the audience, of course, even if we don't have any explicit targets on the balance sheet or the capital, capital management, net working capital management, where inventory is one part of it is, of course, very important. It's important for us, both to make that growth happen, but we think there are a lot of opportunities to be better. And it's not only the inventory, it's not only what you had just said about the sourcing, it's all the other part, it's the receivables management, it's also the payables management, it's always a cash conversion cycle as a total. Then we also have now explicitly stated that for the whole group, each one of us, customers are in the epicenter, whether they are consumers, whether they are businesses, we will measure on a frequent basis, the feedback, listen to that, and we want to improve our performance. So the NPS, Net Promoter Score, the target is 60. And what is really important is the employees. Like Tapio stated in the beginning, this is all about the people, all about us. And the employee NPS, we want to improve as well. And the target has been at 40. And now looking at how we have been developing and starting from the financial performance and these targets we set, we have been growing, of course, over the last few years, and now maybe for the last couple of years, the growth stalled based on some external macroeconomic and other sort of impacts. But our thinking is, well, if you look at the left-hand side, you see the sold cars from 2018, and we reached 68,000 cars last year, we are aiming to go up by about 50%. The revenue in euros for the total group, EUR 1 billion, we just made it last year. There's also about 50% uplift. And we think, organically doable, and then if and when needed, the M&A can add something on top of that. And then finally, what is really important going forward is profitability. So the adjusted EBIT margin that has been dropping over the last few years, we want to return to the back to the levels where we were. So the 4% line, which you can see, which we actually have reached a few years back 2018, 2019, 2020, is going to be the target where we're going to be back there. So in that sense, is nothing extraordinary. On the other hand, lots of things to do. And how are we going to do that? First of all, is to increase the scale, utilize the scale, which is the top line. Secondly, be much more effective. It's about the productivity, it's about the efficiency, it's about the cost control. And all of that should drive towards the same direction, applies to all the market applies to all the functions. Then looking at the nonfinancial targets, the NPS is already at the high level, okay? 50 plus 50 is actually a high number. So most of our customers are happy. They are satisfied, but we think building the trust, having the new concepts that Aino talked about, being much more proactive, we think we can drive it forward. And that should then also correlate positively to the financial targets, both short term and long term. And then finally, the employees, having employee satisfaction, having the employee well-being, we think is going to be a positive driver as well. The frequency of getting the information is a little bit different. On the employee side, we're going to do it twice a year. So we're going to have a pulse survey in the summertime. We're going to have a more extensive survey end of the year, so it's twice a year, whereas for the customer side, we got to get it in all the time. So much more data points, large sample, higher frequency. So they're a little bit different. And the eNPS we have already covered and had from 2021, whereas information for the customers, the NPS is a little bit younger. So we have only had the information for a shorter time. On the other hand, I think this is something that if we nail this one, it's really going to have a positive impact on the financials as well. And now the other thing which we decided and what's going to be kept intact kept as it was is the dividend policy. That's more, of course, from the owner's perspective, but we have had and we will have going forward, a dividend policy that states that we're going to pay out at least 25% of the net profit we make in any single financial year. So at least 25%. And if you look at what we have done, including the latest proposal that's going to be decided in a few weeks' time, 18th of April at the AGM, we have actually paid a little bit more. So the payout ratio you see on the right-hand side, that's the dotted line. So it has been fluctuating from about 42% to 70%. And we think this dividend policy that we have is actually quite stable, and it's going to be doable and it's going to be feasible for the company to execute the strategy. And now if Tapio would be willing and able to join, we would like to do the conclusion, concluding remarks jointly.

So I hope you've been enjoying what you've been hearing, and I think at least you've been very active with the questions, and you can still continue with the questions that we try to entertain. But I think it's been evident that profitable growth and underlining the profitability. And then on top of the organic growth, we may operate on the M&A toolbox either on an acquisition or partnering or alliance in that respect. And then the customer and personnel is really in the epicenter of being successful in this business. And especially the customer thing, we go back on the starting phase of Kamux where Kamux was really for the customers and Juha, the founders were helping the company to grow. So we will do that in all of the 3 markets and going forward. Then on the international scope, I think the economies of scale both in our sourcing. And then on top of the direct sourcing for the cars and the vehicles we sell, I think Juha opened the door a bit about the indirect as well. And I think that's where we have room to improve and do better and increase our profitability and productivity in that respect. And then I think our balance sheet is strong. So we are ready to move ahead. For sure, if there will be a very sizable M&A opportunity we could not maybe potentially act, but I think we have firepower for the normal ones we see in our long list at least going forward.

And I think if I sort of try to figure out where we are heading, and it's quite clear, we're still going to be a growth company. We're going to be aiming to be profitable, much more profitable on the relative perspective. And I think we have a lot of things to utilize better. So the platform, the engine we have, which is the Kamux engine, we're going to tune it up. So we're going to get more out of the capacity, which we already have built.

So we have the green heart, and we have worth the trust. Thank you. Now I think it's time to entertain questions.

Thank you. On the financial targets, I would like to ask about the profitability target, which you actually raised a bit even though your profitability has been clearly below both the old and the new target for a few years. So what kind of led you into the target of 4%?

I think having a look on the past, I think as an individual country, Finland, we've been there and even beyond. And then we have a grip on the way how to operate in Germany, get the Sweden in place and deliver profitability and all adding up, I think that's something which is really doable.

And then maybe to add, Rauli, on your question is, of course, there are already in the marketplace, some other players that are at that level or above...

Or even above.

Exactly. So we think there are ways some means of making it happen. And I think we just with the existing capacity, with the existing engine, doing smart moves like I think Juha's smart logistics, as one example of just being a little bit more successful in turning around businesses in Sweden or Germany. Maybe we have good practices in certain parts of the companies. We haven't utilized elsewhere. Just by doing some pragmatic actions, we do believe we can improve the profitability of the.[indiscernible]. So that's why.

Good. And can you share anything about the contribution from individual countries to the sales or profitability targets?

No. Like I said, we have set the targets for the whole group. And like Tapio stated, there are plans to execute, and we're going to follow that up on a monthly, quarterly, annual basis. So we have it, but we're not going to publish it.

It's Pia again. Regarding your strategy. So how -- now you have published your strategy for '24 to '26, and then you have the long-term target. So how do we as outsiders know, if you are successful during your strategy period. So what are you satisfied with? What kind of levels are you satisfied with when we talk about sales and profitability?

I think those details and exact targets we have not disclosed. But on the strategy journey the road maps we have done for each individual market, I think we will come back and share where we've been good at. And if we've been not good at, we'll share that as well.

Okay. And then still on this road map. So are there any specific step changes we should be aware of? Or is this a gradual journey towards the 4% margin target?

It's more of a gradual journey in all of the 3 markets. Having said that, it's very fundamentally important that we break even in Sweden and Germany as fast as we can.

Thank you. Then maybe a question on the demand situation now in all your markets? How does the market look like? And then do the strikes in Finland, have you seen any impact on your sales?

Maybe the strikes, this is what to tackle with, our transportation and our smart supply chain has been maneuvering extremely well. And we have not felt any major issues on the strikes. And even if we have partners who are repairing and fixing the cars, I think everything has been running rather smooth as we speak. Then in terms of the market, I think the statistics from Finland are available. And I think Kamux has been continuing to be strong on the Finnish marketplace. Sweden, I think we've been roughly, let me now think very carefully, we've been following the market with the exception that the [indiscernible] is doing extremely strains good things, and they have taken a quantum leap on their growth. We've been following quite honestly with the rest of the market. And then I think in Germany, we've been improving the game as we speak.

Then another question regarding your group costs. The group costs, they have been on a -- yes, not improvement, but on a growth path during the last year. So last year, I think you were at EUR 9 million. How should we look at the group costs, which are not allocated to other countries?

Well, couple of things to note. One is, of course, that Jarkko is here, you're going to have a chat with him as we [indiscernible]. Of course, we have invested to some extent into the digital development, which is cost as well. It's part of it. We have the management, all of us, most of us are sitting here. Of course, some of the guys are running their sort of segments, the countries, but most of us are sitting in the HQ. But like you sort of see and what you have -- what we have been telling you guys is that we're going to utilize now, scale better. We're going to have some of the more centralized processes. So in a way, hopefully, that will then bear fruit going forward. So whatever we have as the total sort of central cost shall be positive for the businesses as well going forward. That's my thinking. And then, of course, being a public listed company, there is some cost, which is just because of the fact that we are publicly listed, which we have to have, which might not have direct impact on the businesses, but that's part of the legacy.

But I think when seeing how we operate on certain rather standard procedures, mainly in the back office area and related documentation, I think we can streamline and upgrade our game quite a bit on all that respect. I don't have a number in mind I would do on the...

Pia, can we take one more question, and then we take some questions from the web and perhaps there are others also in the audience. Okay. Mathias, did you have a question?

Actually, I have 3. Should I wait for...

Okay. Go. Well, I'm counting.

Yes. So the first one is a question that I think I asked too many Chief Financial Officers, the definition of adjusted. Without giving a definition, what does that mean? Is it, can you say what will be in adjusted and what will be not?

Yes. If you look at -- of course, it's company by company, it's different. But the basic idea is that if there are one-off items like restructuring-related costs, that is -- they -- typically taken out. It, of course, might be an income as well, if you get an insurance compensation. So something that is one-off that is not recurring, consistent going forward. That's the idea. In case of Kamux, I think they have been quite small marginal. I think going forward, they should be not too extensive either.

Store openings?

Store opening...

Just like refurbishing showrooms, opening up...

The refurbishing we have done is put into the normal results. So nope, nope.

Okay. Great. And then one question is, well, ambitious financial target, 4%, glad to hear that, seems to be really doable. But one thing that is interesting compared to like 2020 and 2021, maybe '19, was this -- when you finance -- to my understanding, you have a large financing need for like 3, 4 months during the summer when you stock up in spring and then you sell off a lot of cars during summer months, if I'm not wrong, and then you have the cash inflow. So my understanding is that you kind of issued term notes for a short period of time to finance this. So comparing interest rates 2019 to now going from 0% or close to 0% to today, like 4%, 5%. That's a big difference compared to the target margin of 4%. So what can you say about this? Has this financing environment change? And can you say anything about the financing level right now? Thinking about '24?

Yes, 2 comments. So first of all, of course, any interest cost is below EBIT, okay? It's going to have an impact on the earnings per share, but it's below EBIT. So in a way, it doesn't affect the adjusted EBIT margin. Unless the financing would be a bottleneck, and we wouldn't be able to finance it. But I think more fundamentally, we do have a seasonality. And of course, the net working capital changes. So part of the efficiency productivity is going to be, how can we not only change the level but hopefully reduce the volatility and the variation fluctuation as well. But the financing what we do, we do have commercial papers, short-term financing on the market directly, and then we do have bank facilities which utilize to get it done.

Maybe then, we take one question here from the web. And this is actually for Aino. So I know if you please join us here.

We'll do it jointly.

Yes. The question goes on Trustpilot the average review for Kamux [ dot S ] is 2.1 out of 5 on about 500 reviews. The better competitors have 4.2 and 4.4 out of 5.0 on a couple of thousand reviews, respectively. What do you think that Kamux, why do you think Kamux has ended up here? And does it matter? And if yes, what will you do to improve that score?

I think this is already stating time before Aino. And I think we have not paid any attention to Trustpilot, I'm not using it, and that's the outcome when you don't pay attention and don't use it. Now I think, I don't know as of when have we started using Trustpilots.

Yes. We have trust the launch, a cooperation and partnership with Trustpilot so that we are able to systematically collect all the reviews from customers so that it will actually give a proper picture of the experience when engaging with Kamux. So the current rating does not give a full picture and it's a skewed picture. We have been working in the group level with Google Reviews which have been the main partner in Sweden, and there we have the rating of 4 out of 5.

So we'll climb up as fast as we can. That will be the normal.

Yes.

Thank you. Okay. a bit about Sweden. There was a question about the time lines for Kamux -- what kind of time lines Kamux has for launching leasing offering in Sweden and other similar plans in other markets.

I think, Andy, you answered already.

You answered. No, I think we will do it as fast as we can. And then I think there was a question earlier on the value as well. It's just one of the options we have in the toolbox, and we have no exclusive with them. We are very happy to work with them, but I think we can also test the waters on our own if we need it. So...

Okay. Very good. You mentioned earlier about using artificial intelligence to gain edge in the business. So particularly in what type of areas of the business could AI be most useful.

I think, fairly many. I think we are having more of a -- we don't have lack of ideas where to use it. And I think we've been piloting and testing it. And in most of the cases we'll be using, we'll be very happy with the outcome. So multiple place where you can use it. And I think as we speak, we're going to see that in the visualizing the cars, we can do the content on the cars. We can do pricing. We -- it's multiple things. And I think if you would ask Jarkko this question, we're going to be here, still 7:00. So...

Okay. Let's not do that. Let's not do that. Okay. There's a couple of financial questions here. In terms of x number of profit going towards dividends, then where will the remaining profit go?

So if we don't share -- if we don't pay all of the 100% out of net profit, it stays on the balance sheet, so it goes into equity. So it increases equity on the balance sheet. And of course, if there's a cash implication stays as cash to be used, of course.

Okay. At 4% margin, what kind of rose does that imply?

Of course, it depends on how much capital we employ. But if you look at -- it depends what is then the top line. But assuming we're going to make EUR 1.5 billion, assuming we're going to make 4% EBIT margin, it implies about EUR 60 million in absolute terms of EBIT. Then the capital, if you look at the total balance sheet is around EUR 200 million as we speak. Of course, it's not static. It's going to change, but let's assume it's going to be EUR 200 million to EUR 300 million. So then equity side is going to be 60 divided by that. So -- and it depends what's the capital, the different metrics, how -- what is the definition of the capital, but let me say it's in the double-digit region anyway, so I guess, 10% to 20%.

And the role of rose in decision-making?

I think in the long term, driving the value, I think it's important that the return on capital employed is good and it's better than what your weighted average cost of capital. So I think it's going to have an impact longer-term perspective for the value generation. And as I said, we haven't had and we don't now have a long-term target set for any return on capital metrics. But I think if you drive the profitability in the right direction and our efficient on the balance sheet, that should drive the return on capital up as well.

Very good. More maybe a comment saying that without any timely and local milestones, your goals are mostly in the air. Really hope that you reveal country-wise targets ASAP.

I think you can rest assured. We know exactly how the targets are. We've been doing in the road map on a country level and unfortunately, not in a position to share it and disclose it, but we'll follow on that one. Good rule of thumb is that make Sweden and Germany profitable and then Finland continue improving. That's unfortunately the level what we can share as of today, but further news to come.

Okay. One last chance or maybe 2 out of the audience if there's anything but...

We have heard a lot of new and small changes like it usually is in retail, a lot of details. So do you need a cultural change in Kamux to reach these new targets? And how do you ensure that your employees are incentivized and with you throughout the strategy period.

Excellent question. And I think we are in a process of trying to paint the unified picture how does good look like? And what are the prerequisites to be successful on a certain function of our retail chain. And I think some of the things take a bit of a longer time, but I think people when they see they realize that's the way you can also do. And by the way, by doing that, you can achieve better results. And as most of our people are paid for performance. I think they are very fast to learn.

If you pass it to [indiscernible], please?

You said in the beginning that the industry is quite fragmented. Do we know what's profitability industry on average?

Some of the average, we don't know, but we know who's been extremely good at what they can deliver. They can deliver up to double digit on the profitability, like one of our dear German colleagues is seeing, then some of the European family of companies is very difficult to say that real profitability. And that when they have cars and real estate or whatever mix, it's very difficult to say what is really the profitability of the car part. But I think we can do clearly better that we know.

And do we see any trends on that, let's say, used car companies profitability trend. Is it going up, down or being flat?

I think what we have seen and success defined by growth and profitability. The big ones have been able to grow the smaller ones, if you are specialized, you can do very good profitability, maybe not growing. And the ones who will be fully online, they've been really struggling and even profitability has been hampered quite badly.

We have one more Final question from the back, correct? No. Okay. Very good. Then thank you all for very good questions.

Excellent. Thanks a lot.

Thank you. We wish you all the best.

Thank you to the team. And the obligatory disclaimer at the end of the event. And then thank you, and have a nice trip home.

And by the way, still the opportunity for store checking is valid, and I think we're going to be living in, say, 5 minutes. Thank you. Thanks. Have a great day.