Kamux Oyj (KAMUX) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello. Welcome to Kamux's Quarter 1 Results Presentation. We shall first have Tapio Pajuharju, our CEO, presenting the results and thereafter, we shall take a Q&A session. And to begin with, we'll take questions from the teleconference line and then continue via the chat and with the audience here at the studio. Thank you. Go ahead, Tapio, please.

Welcome on board. I think the headline tells lot about it. Not one of our strongest quarters and I think I will share on the journey what has happened and where we are heading and just bear with me. All in all, I think we'll have a look on the first quarter; then we'll have a look on the market position; then look at the network development; then we'll go through country by country, what we've been doing, how we've been implementing strategy; then we'll have a look on the financials and then we'll have a look on the long-term targets and the way forward. So all in all, top line took a small dent. On the other hand, both the gross profit and adjusted operating profit took a bigger dent and that's mainly because of the margin delivered by the cars and I will have a more detailed analysis on that one. Then integrated services actually behind the scenes, even though with the drop in volume, delivered rather good and solid performance. Then the cash flow when we've been able to sell not so well-fitting cars converting that into cash. We are ready for the season to come with a strong cash pool on that respect. Then on the customer level and I think that's the front where we've been doing good and we're actually at par with the long-term target on the NPS 60. We have variances country by country: Finland ahead of the game, Sweden slightly behind and Germany very close to the par on that respect. Then I think it's on the marketplace and I think most of you have been following what is happening in the market. The 3 markets where we operate, all been bit soft. There is development on the number of pieces sold. That's mainly driven by the consumer-to-consumer sales especially in Finland and Sweden, Germany is bit more even. And then the organized car dealers have been having flat with the exception of some of the dealers doing good job on the entry-level price points and even going below their normal average price point on that respect. Finland: Kamux remains to be #1 on the marketplace and doing solid job on the sales. On the other hand, we've been having difficulties on the entry-level combustion engine cars, which have been now doing extremely well and then having difficulties of obtaining those and those you need to obtain as a trade-in or then buy from the local market. Those are not the ones you can import from Europe or Sweden in that respect. Sweden: we've been going down and I think the volume drop is bigger than our store count has gone down roughly 26% and we are now on the Top 8 position in the Swedish marketplace. The ones who've been following the Swedish marketplace, there are actually quite a lot of changes on the top players, the way they perform. The ones who have access to used cars because of they sell new cars or they have a leasing pool, those have been doing good. The ones who need to be sourcing the cars from the market have been suffering and have been changing the focus on the older cars and the higher mileage cars in that respect. Germany: we are such a small player that we've not been impacted by the market. It's mainly on our own game and I will share a bit more in detail how we've been playing the game in Germany. So the pillars tell it all; bit of a dent on the top line, but a big dent on the profitability mainly driven by the margin delivered by the cars. Then looking ahead on the marketplace, we are going towards the season so we have Q2, which is traditionally strong and then the Q3, really strong. Then I think our issue started to happen on the fall of '24. We started to address those already on the last quarter and that's why the Q4 numbers were already not where we aim to be and this is bit of a reflection and transition from the Q4 to Q1 going forward. Number of cars sold, I think we've been trying to get the Finland on the lower average price. We've been doing good step, but not big enough step on that respect and we got a bit of a hit on the number of cars. Then on the actual net sales, not so big hit. Germany roughly the same as Sweden, we got hit both on the volume as well as on the value on that respect. Adjacent services actually doing rather good; very solid performance on the Kamux Plus, solid performance on the finance penetration and as you have seen, there have been a lot of interest offers both on the used cars as well as especially on the new cars. We've been not participating on that one. We've been maintaining solid grip on the financing, took a bit of an initial hit on the financing in Finland, but gradually getting the penetration good and also improving our earnings potential with both of the products we have on board. Showroom network we have been adjusting in Finland. Mantsala has been closed. We are building up the new showroom in Jyvaskyla to be opened in the later fall will be what is mega size, but for our size in the central part of Finland, will be the largest used car store in central part of Finland. And then by the end of this week, we are closing a very small shop in Savonlinna and transferring the business to adjacent stores over there. I think that news was opened earlier today. Sweden, we are going through the assessment of the store network. We have a number of stores which are not making the benchmark as we speak. We have program to improve them. If they do good, then we continue; if not, we need to consider exiting and closing. And then at the same token, we know that we are not having enough presence on the Greater Stockholm area and still northern part of Sweden is not ideal for us. And northern part is good for the sourcing market and as well as doing business for a certain type of vehicles, which we have in our offering. Germany, rather static. We are now opening beginning of July in Schwerin. Schwerin is the first one on the ex-eastern part of Germany. It's northeast from Hamburg. We found a location which is on a very good location; high traffic next to hypermarkets, next to other stores; and we're going to be one of the only games in town on the used cars. And what we have learned on the eastern part of Germany, you can obtain a very good adjacent service penetration over there and we already have team members in the team who are running the show over there and they've been part of the design work. So we should be having a good opening phase in Germany. Finland, we have a bit of a mixed bag. We have extremely well-performing stores with a steady and static look on the offering, then we have the other part as well. Where we've not been doing a good job is the fit with the market. Towards end of last year we were beefing up our EVs, our hybrids and the, I would call, higher offering above EUR 30,000. That has been difficult for us. Not the top end, but in the mid-price point and that's where we've been having lot of issues, how to get that sold in the manner we would like to do and that's why we got the hit on the profitability and the margins. We have good grip on most of the things what we have seen. January, February, really difficult and really challenging; March starting to creep in with a solid margin improvement both on the sales and the margin. And I think going forward, we now have found the remedy how to tackle that. We have also change of the leadership. We have a new captain for team Finland. Joni Tuominen started on April 16 as an interim CEO for Finland and taken over the position from Jani. Joni has been with us as a COO for Finland since beginning of the year. Prior to Kamux, he's been working with Rapala and Fiskars and has brought in lot of good tools how to take the business forward. Sweden, we've been having a difficulty of getting the activity level high with the new team. We've been closing 6 showrooms. Now we are at 17; half of the stores in a good shape with good management, half of the stores still learning how to do the business and how to make it work. We're also having bit of a lack of cars per store in Sweden. Sourcing has been challenged over there. Now we are getting grip on the sourcing. We have a good offering. The ones who've been following the Swedish marketplace can also see what is happening on the local offering. Now it's improving towards the summer season. Offers are there and the export of the cars from Sweden for Europe and for Finland has been more difficult. So hence, the local market is now easy to handle for the local. On the other hand, the export cars what we've been importing both to Finland and to Germany is not equally optimal with the stronger krona over there. Johan is beefing up the organization. We have simplified and made the sales organization and the sourcing organization more direct. We have a new team member as the Sales Director for Sweden, started beginning of last month. And then at the same time, you may remember, we bought Webcars, the sourcing organization from Sweden. So we have integrated Kamux Sweden and Webcars sourcing. So we share the same tools, same platform, same market. And at the same time, we have the team; Finland, Sweden team up in [ Ullebori ] so they belong to the same pool and they organize the Swedish sourcing in that respect. So a good move, very good ammunition and good tools and good potential going forward. Germany, I think the same issue with the long day stock, which we've been gradually addressing and getting it on the right size, right offering. We are so close of making black numbers. Now we are missing 20 to 30 cars a month to make it work. Then I think on the adjusted EBIT; last year, you may remember, we changed the way how to report the financial gains on the finance we sell as a third party. That way, we have a bit of a different policy how to book them for this year. But I feel rather good about the team in Germany and the ones who look at the offering we have. It has been changed. It's truly differentiated and now delivering a good metal margin, also good traction in the marketplace. So I think we are in a good shape in Germany in that respect. The marketplace, I think you've been following what is happening with the marketplace. The car industry has not been easy to do. Business has been going, but the profitability of the industry has not been strong like it used to be in the past. Gradually coming back and finding ways how to deliver margin and how to beef up the adjacent products to help on the lost margin in that respect. What have we been doing? And I think basic things, but we need to do the basic things right and we are back to basics in most of the things. The first one is more data-driven pricing; do it fast, do it roughly right and not to try to do a mega deal on that respect both for the sourcing and both for the selling. And I think when we have the right price for the right car, we can sell it very fast with a good margin. On the other hand, we should not go for off offering and focus on the core offering and that's where we have had bit of an issue on how to manage the offering, how to be early enough on the right track. And now we have data in place, we have system in place and we have people who are addressing it. There is a transition how to make it happen. Now we are going through the transition. We're having a better grip on the offering. And I think going forward, we have both the data telling from the history our own market data and then the instinct what is happening in the marketplace better in the game in order to manage the inventory going forward. We operate with our own ERP. KMS may be most likely one of the best ERPs in the car industry. On the other hand, if you operate that with multiple ways, not easy to manage. We've been limiting the way to how to use KMS. We've been introducing new controls and new policies and system says no to many things what it says yes in the past and we have a better grip and control on the business going forward. Inventory management, we have a new more centralized way of addressing the inventory. When looking at the history, most of our stores have been good in the inventory management, but not all. And for the rest of the stores, the system will help them to manage the inventory better; acting faster both on the physical product how to display that, but also on the pricing and also on the location of the inventory and that's where we are working diligently. Very pragmatic hands-on grip on the inventory management and more central support than in the past. Then on the strategy, no changes on this one. The left hand side, we seem to be doing rather okay. On the other hand on the right hand side, we still have things where we need to improve. Some of these stores do excellently, but not all and we need to help everyone to perform, everyone to follow the good learnings and the good process we have in Kamux. And that's where we have work to do and we are addressing that going forward. And we call it [ One Kamux ] fast lane and that's where we have a very systematic process and monitoring of it and it's been doing good going forward. Then on the team, as you see, I'm here alone today. Jukka has started on the iLOQ and Enel Sintonen is joining us 1st of August. Very happy to have Enel joining us. In between, it's not visible for the audience, but we have Mikko Kettunen, very experienced helping hand for the interim period and very happy to have him supporting us during the transition. Joni Tuominen has assumed the role for captain of Finland. Johan is onboarding and doing a good job in Sweden. Joanna Clark is joining us as a Chief People Officer day after tomorrow so the 15th. Then Juha Kalliokoski is back in the operational role and I'm very happy for Juha being on board. We were looking for this type of a talent on the marketplace. Juha took the, I would say, big step and helping us on the operational mode. And together with the team, we've been seeing what can be done, how it can be done and we are on a good track. Jarkko Lehtismaki on top of the digital and IT work has been on the sourcing side and also developing the KMS going forward. And then for the data and the car flow, Altti been helping us. And I think on the S&OP that goes hand in with the logistics and especially now when you need to import more of the cars, the time to market is of essence and we still have lot of days we can cut from the logistic work on that one. And I think we have now good track and good monitoring and actually it doesn't cost a lot. When you make the capital cost in the equation, faster is also much better on the margin and the profitability. Even if you pay maybe EUR 10 or EUR 20 more per car; when you get it fast, you are much better off on that one. On the financials, let's have a look on that one. As said, sales volume took a small dent; on the other hand, profitability both for the gross profit and the adjusted profit, a big hit and it's mainly because of the active inventory management. We've done that in order to have an offering suitable for the market going forward and then at the same time, organizing funds for the offering. Now we have good cash flow, which will enable us to buy the cars needed for the future. On the comparison, I think if you would have a deeper look. Yes, on the cost level, we are okay. On the people related and the store related, on the car related, we still are above our target position and gradually coming in and landing towards second half and end of second half on the target on the car related cost. And then what we have on the One Kamux is coming on top of that. Net working capital is doing good and we've been going down on the inventory. And now I think the average price, we try to get the number of cars up, but the average price should go down in order to match better with the market demand. And especially this is now applicable for combustion engine, i.e., small petrol cars, diesel cars and everything in between. And I think in the past we cut the chain on a certain price point, which was maybe too high. Now we continue until a lower price point and that's also very good for the profitability and actually the relative profitability is improving when we do that. This is just an illustration on the incremental cash generated and I think that's in a way coming to the need and in order to make the offering even more attractive going for the Q2 and Q4. Dividend, I think that is unchanged and then subject to Board approval later in the year and now we're going to be paying the proposed dividend on this one. And we will have the AGM actually next week on May 22 close to airport in Helsinki. So the ones who are in the vicinity, feel free to come on board. Please have a look on the pre-election and then also how to participate on that. That's available on our website so please have a look. Then I think our long-term targets are unchanged. We're aiming for the 100,000 cars. We still have lot of work to do on that one. And then EUR 1.5 billion revenue. Adjusted EBIT margin we have a long way to go, but I think we have tools and actions in place to improve that substantially going forward. On the NPS, we are actually today at par with the plan even though we have differences market by market. So on average, we are on that one. eNPS is improving. I think some of you'll be wondering about the turnover of our people. It's now steady and going forward and I think we are in a good grip on that one as well. Outlook, we remain on the same outlook. We understand with the start of the year on the first period has not been good and actually making it more complicated. But looking at the seasonality, looking at what is happening on our game, how the margin improvement, how the selection improvement is coming into play; I feel rather confident that that can be done. But I think it's in a way clear that with a very soft and bad results from the Q1, the complexity is higher and also the risk factor is slightly up in that respect. Then just a repetition on this one. And I think going forward, we need to change the game. We need to make the company profitable, get Finland back to profits, improve Germany and help them to grow the needed 20, 30 cars on the volume and then make Sweden on the black numbers. And I think that's where we have a crossroad and we need to step on the gas with the ones who are performing and then consider what to do with the ones who are in a difficult position, whether to help them or whether then to gradually consider closing some of the stores. So now I think it's time for questions and comments so please feel free. And I think we have the chat function available and then we have the telecommunication line and then we have the live audience in the studio. Please go ahead.

Yes. And the plan was to take the questions first from the teleconference line. Let's see if there are any. And it looks like we have no questions.

[Operator Instructions]

We do have a couple of questions coming from the teleconference. Let's begin with Joonas, I believe.

The next question comes from Joonas Hayha from OP.

Joonas Hayha from OP. So a couple of questions. Firstly, regarding the sourcing side, I get that the sourcing market is quite tight. But can you elaborate little bit further what seems to be the problem in sourcing and I mean specifically in your own operations as I would imagine a large player in a fragmented market should be able to utilize sourcing from abroad. So you mentioned that you can't really import cheaper gasoline cars from abroad. But can you elaborate a little bit this side of the question?

Starting with Finland, the largest market of our portfolio. When having a look on the car prices, the new cars and the used cars, they tend to follow to a certain extent. New car prices have gone up quite a bit, used cars following the trend except in Finland. That's why the import is a bit more difficult and you need to do handpicking on the importing. But still our main source for the cars is trade-ins and I think clearly more than 50% of the cars we sell are trade-in cars and we've been able to increase and will be able to increase the share of the trade-in cars. That's the number one. And then to source the right cars which are going to be then imported to Finland, that's where you need to do really diligent work to find the right candidate to deliver margin today, tomorrow and day after tomorrow. And that's where we went more on the EVs and more on the hybrid and too expensive cars and that's what is lesson learned. Now we know what to look, how to look and I think we have a better grip on that one. It will not happen overnight and I think there is a transition already happening on the Q1. It will take a bit more time and then we're in a good shape. Market is the same for everyone and I think we have learned a bit late how to do that. But now when we have learned, I feel rather confident we will find a good solution on that one.

Okay. And then in the previous call, I think you mentioned that you've made some changes to the incentives within the purchasing team. So have you or do you see the need to further adjust the incentives or are the changes adequate to improve your game going forward?

I think it's never final and I think we always keep on fine-tuning and finding better ways. And I think even as we speak, we have some fine-tunings in the plan, but I think nothing major in that respect.

Okay. And finally, you mentioned that car market started to improve towards the end of the quarter. What was the driver for that? And can you comment on your inventory going into Q2? Is that more reflective of demand or how should we look at it?

I think the corrective actions were visible already on Q4, continued strongly on the Q1 and going into the peak season, we should have a much better grip on the offering. The volume of the cars, the number of pieces available, that's still something we need to increase and we are working on that.

The next question comes from Pia Rosqvist-Heinsalmi from Carnegie Investment Bank.

It's Pia from DNB Carnegie. So I start with a question regarding your guidance, you stick to your guidance. Can you please add any more color to what makes you so confident that you can reach the '25 guidance given the weak start of the year. So any more color on the measures you have taken, which you particularly now expect to support the earnings?

I think the first one is the seasonality. We are going into the peak season and then on top of that, I think what we have learned on the Q4 will not be repeated this year. At the same token, I think the first signs and the indication is that the metal margins are improving and also the grip on the adjacent services is improving. I think still, as said, it's not going to be walk in the park with such a soft and not so good start. The bar is higher. But I think based on the analysis we have done, it's doable.

All right. Then if I continue with the Swedish network, you say the assessment on the network is still ongoing. So I think you shortly referred to how large part of the network is under review. I'm sorry, I missed that. And is there kind of any mental deadline on your commitments to the Swedish market? So Sweden has been struggling and how long do you plan to I mean still give it leeway to improve?

We have set our own mental deadline, but that's not something we're going to be publishing. We have a new team addressing that and I think during the peak season, we'll make the call.

All right. And then 2 more questions. I'd like to understand the recent changes or the acquisitions you made with the Webcars acquisitions and then your cooperation with Secto Automotive. So first of all, given your ambition to maybe drive down the ASP somewhat, what impact does this have for your cooperation with Secto Automotive?

I think we continue as in the past and I think on the markets where we offer the Secto cars, they are right to the market. But we need to keep our own interest on that one and I think we've been doing a good cooperation with them and the cars suit our needs well. Some of the extreme higher-priced cars, they don't fit to us and we have a way how to address those. And then with Webcars, I'm very happy that we integrated the sourcing teams of Kamux Sweden, Webcars and then the team in Finland, who is doing link purchases from Sweden. So we have all under the same radar. We don't compete on the very same car and we have everything organized under 1 roof and 1 management in that respect.

Then let's take a couple of questions from the audience here before we continue. Maria, please?

Maria Wikstrom from SEB. I'd like to start with Sweden. I think you have listed some 700 to 800 cars in Sweden and you have some 17 dealerships, which means that you have average about just 50 cars per dealership, which seems a very low number especially as you have this big facility in Gothenburg. So what do you plan to do I mean in Sweden?

We are increasing the number of cars and allocating the cars where the performance is solid and good and gradually, the number of cars is going up. As we speak, we'll also be working with partners who can help us providing cars and we'll hear some of the results rather soon.

And then I want to touch upon the performance like month by month. I think you have communicated it before. So if you look at Q1, were the months equal to each other or were there differences in performance across months if we talk about now sales trends as well as metal margins?

Sales trend, yes, gradually improving from January to March. Then on the metal margin, January, February, very, very difficult and then March coming back closer to normal and gradual recovering. But I think that's in a way normal when you address active inventory management and then you get a gradual change on the offering. So that's coming to help on the margins.

And then my final question relating to metal margins, which are significantly below I mean the levels that you reached in 2019, if I think that would be like a normalized level. But I'm thinking that, I mean if the competition has increased so much in the -- and now maybe we talk about now Finland, your biggest market. The competition has increased so much that the 2019 levels are no longer reachable.

I have not done the comparison on 2019. But what I think has changed is some of the valuations of the EVs where the trend is different than on the normal combustion engine cars and that's hitting everyone on the marketplace. And lately, some of the hybrid is following roughly the same trend and that's impacting on the valuation of the inventory and that's why the speed is important.

And maybe finally, as now you have brought back Mr. Kalliokoski. So what has been his things that he has done now the first month he's been back with the company. So where does he think that, I mean, the Finnish business finds again its profitability that it has had in the past?

I think he's been doing excellent and good cooperation with the team and when we have the One Kamux in all of the 4 boxes, but especially on the KMS monitoring, controlling and improving the 1 way of operating the KMS; his skill set and his experience has been extremely valuable.

Okay. Then Rauli, please go ahead.

Yes. Rauli from Inderes. Coming back to your kind of inventory position, I think it was quite unusual seasonal development in Q1 that you actually went quite a bit down in inventories and created cash flow and you also had a big chunk of cash in the balance sheet in there. It was also quite unusual. So how have you been building up the inventory now towards the season? Have you done already some kind of major moves in April or is that still to come?

Major moves maybe not the right word, but strong moves and gradually increasing the number of the cars, but not repeating the same mistake with the average price. So that's why we try to keep a good grip on the average price.

Okay. And you have now a couple of quarters at least kind of mentioned the very tight sourcing market and now I guess you are aiming to go into the lower price segment, which has been the toughest for you in the past. So how have you now done it basically in the spring? Have you been able to kind of somehow improve your own efficiency or are you accepting lower metal margins or what's happening there?

Accepting lower metal margins, not. But then we calculate a theoretical margin when we make the deal, that more we have taken down. At the same token, we've been tightening the ship that the discounts do stick and you cannot go beyond the agreed discount levels. And then the way we do business trade-ins, we try to do better and faster deals on the trade-ins and at the same time, we've been beefing up our consumer purchasing team to be active and to be available 24/7 and acting on the leads and the tips we get on the marketplace.

Okay. That's clear. And then still on this topic, are you worried that you might not have enough inventory for the season given you are clearly now later in the year building up the inventory than usual?

I think it's challenging. But I think at least we have the ammunition. We're not going to be buying early for the needs which don't exist. So at least we are more timely on the needs so we know exactly what is happening with the marketplace. And I think the risk with the EVs, hybrids and all of that, we don't have that in that respect.

Great. And then just 1 detailed question on the OpEx level in Finland, was there anything unusual in Q1 or should this be basically the typical level going forward?

I think nothing unusual. It's more of a normal.

Okay. Then we move to next question from the audience. Jussi, please.

Jussi Koskinen. First question about the competitive advantages. Does Kamux miss some competitive advantage that other players in industry is having?

Maybe we don't miss, but have we been exploiting the European sourcing the way we could. We have not done that in an ideal way. And the same even with the intercompany trading and allocation of the cars. We are not at our best and that's why we have now the improved S&OP process, including the sourcing and the allocation of the cars. And even the grip we did with the Webcars; integrating all of that, making it easier, making it more simplified, how to do and what to do. And I think going forward and not only Kamux, but the Finnish car dealership and the industry needs to be importing cars. As long as the new car sales are not picking up, we have a big demand and there is a gap on the cars. So European marketplace grip is important. We've been beefing our game in the sourcing and I think we are better off than we used to be in the past in that respect.

Okay. Then second one, in recent years there has been lots of failures with Kamux. So has it been bad luck or what has been the reason if I look 4, 5 years back?

I cannot comment all of that, but I think it's like in the sports. If you are well trained and you know how to play and what to play, you have still maybe bad luck, but you have a higher probability of success in that respect. And I think that's why we have the One Kamux and you can only play it in 1 way. If 1 is playing ice hockey and the other one is playing floor ball, it's not the same. We need to everyone be on the same sport, same rules, the same way and then you can be highly successful.

Then a question related to this increased consumer-to-consumer sales. Has there happening something special in the industry why people are purchasing less from shops and more from consumer-to-consumer?

I think it's more of the consumer confidence and the ability to spend. I think the volume is on the -- I don't have the exact data on that one, but they are in the thousands and it's not more than 3. So the sweet spot is on a very, very low price point. And those are usually not available on the dealerships with some exceptions.

Then we have a number of questions via the chat. You already addressed to some extent the guidance and why being confident. But maybe further on that is that what are the factors supporting adjusted EBIT during the rest of the year?

Very basic. We need to have the metal margin improvement the way we've been seeing that. Then the adjacent services where we also have a traction that they are going gradually better and especially on the finance, Kamux Plus and some of the insurance. And then at the same time when we have good grip on that, then we need to step on the gas and get the volumes.

Okay. And have you seen any improvement in the market in early Q2, for example changes in availability of cars or less aggressive offers?

I think the offers from the car industry has been gradually going down if you monitor what happened at the year-end and the early months of '25 on the new cars. Same applies for the used cars with the exception of some of the interest offers, which I don't know how to make it economical, but that's what is happening, but gradually going towards normal.

Okay. You mentioned active inventory management. Can you quantify how big the impact from active inventory management was on adjusted EBIT?

That's something we have not published. But as you can see on the average margin, it had an impact.

Okay. There's also a question in terms of if your view concerning the Swedish operations profitability or the profitability of Swedish operations has permanently changed.

I think Sweden is part of our strategy, it's part of the concept and it has not changed. But having said that, we need to find a way how to make it profitable and we need to do it rather fast.

Okay. On the same topic, I think if there's anything to add in terms of the logical arguments for continuing to be in the Sweden. So it's because it's a valuable part of the -- not valuable at the moment, but an important part of the business where we think that we can make it adding value also.

The stores which are well performing is an indication that it can be done. And the market as such has been available for us and when we get our own game in good shape, should be an integral part of the concept. If not, then we need to do something else.

Very good. Can you explain what has changed in your sourcing strategy? What are the actions you are taking? Is the problem in your pricing models or rather in the selection of the makes that you are selling? Also, what is your outlook strategy on rebates?

Rebates, easy one to answer. We have our sturdy concept and we stick to that and we have tightened the grip on the rebates big time. Initially may also have had a bit of an impact on the volume, but now we have learned how to do that. Then on the sourcing and if I take a bit of a longer perspective not only for the Q1, quite a big change and I think we are clearly more granular on what to buy, how to buy and also on the speed and logistics. Then we're also very stringent what not to buy in that respect. And someone asked about the compensation model for the sourcing team. In the past used to be volume-based and I think it cannot be volume-based. That's in a way very clear. Then on top of the selection and metal margin, it's also the time when to produce that. So type of a GM ROI also for the sourcing even up to the individual sourcing people is in the playbook.

Okay. Very good. I have at the moment no further questions via the chat. What about the audience? Have you come up with anything further?

Very good. Thank you. Thank you. Wish you a good day.

Thank you.

Bye now.