KEFI Gold and Copper Plc (KEFI) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the KEFI Gold and Copper Plc Investor Update. [Operator Instructions] Before we begin, I would like to submit the following poll. And if you could give that your kind attention, I'm sure the company would be most grateful. And I'd now like to hand over to Executive Chairman, Harry Anagnostaras-Adams. Good afternoon, sir.

Good afternoon, and thank you, everyone, for joining. The format today is that myself and my chief colleagues will make a brief update presentation, and then we'll open the floor to questions. There are quite a few that have come through already. And we'll answer those and any that come through subsequently, we'll try to get through as well. And as the introducer said, if we don't get through questions that we can answer during the webinar, we'll post answers subsequently on the website. Without any further due, the photo on the screen is that of the Tulu Kapi deposit, that's the hill the deposit is inside. Our exploration camp is on that hill. When we arrived in Tulu Kapi as a company 8 years ago, a very, very quiet serine district. It still is. It always has been. But the country itself has been through some turmoil that I'm sure you read the media reports about last year when it peaked. It went from in travel advisory or travel rating language. It went from an almost completely green country, if you like, low risk to red country last year when there was internal warfare in the north of the country, not actually in the country, but nevertheless, in the country. And now coincidentally with this webinar over the last few days, I gathered a lot of advisers and some important ones have turned much of the country back green again, including this area. So the country has settled down, which is why a couple of months ago, the financing syndicate for the Tulu Kapi project resolved to get the closing procedures back in motion again, having allowed the country to settle down before mobilizing hundreds of people and hundreds of millions of dollars. That's a conventional disclaimer about forward-looking statements. Now the reason I've put up this introductory -- introduction of the directors and then of the senior executives is because on this occasion, I'm introducing to the webinar a couple of senior executives that we've really formed the trio, if you like, on the front line, the 3 of us. And I apologize if you can't see us tonight, but we're all in different countries and in the culprit of being in a location in an add-back location where the uploading of internet signal is very poor. And that would -- it would destroy the effectiveness of this webinar if we were using video communication. So I had to dial in via my phone whilst the others are on the internet. So I hope it all works okay, and I apologize that the video is not working as we speak. And now going back to the Board of Directors, there's 2 executives and 2 nonexecutive directors, myself and the Finance Director and the executives. The 2 nonexecutives, one, Mark Tyler, former Head of Resource Lending and one of the larger African banks. So quite-- if you like, quite at the forefront of banking for this sector and project financing for mining specifically, and Rich Robinson, who ran large organizations of the gold space, including the Gold Field's gold group in South Africa. There are a couple of other nonexecutives retired or resigned over the last year, and that's created space for directors we expect to appoint as nonexecutives as some large institutional shareholders come onto the register. And we thought it was the right thing to leave those spaces vacant, if you like, to allow that as parties to have a say and who gets nominated and appointed so that everyone feels duly represented. The executives, the senior executives in the company are myself and the Finance Director, plus 3, Eddy, who will speak shortly about Ethiopia. I'll let him introduce himself, but for good order, we've presented in summary CV here. And Brian, who will speak about Saudi Arabia. It's sort of amazing to see those country activities from our side specifically. And have some wider roles in the company, but that's -- 95% time is over seeing those 2 country activities from our viewpoint. And Norman, who overseas and mentors the project development, project construction side. Norman's a world-renowned plants oversee are really construction oversee, particularly for the mining and heavy industry infrastructure sectors, and we're fortunate to have him to mentor and oversee that side of things for the company. We'll keep this moving. I'll hand to Eddy now. And if you don't mind, just introducing a little bit about who you are and your background, but then just giving a bit of a snapshot of how you see things in Ethiopia as summarized in the slide and anything you care to add and if then you would mind handing it to Brian to do likewise for Saudi Arabia. Thanks, Eddy.

Yes. Thanks, Harry. Well, as you've heard, my name is Eddy Solbrandt. I started off in the mining industry in 1986 where I was engaged in optimizing drag lines on a coal mine in the Bowen Basin in Northern Queensland in Australia. Since then, I started a successful consultancy that was largely focused on mining and have worked for large and small mining companies all around the world. I've also been a company director in places like Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, U.K. and Thailand. And I joined KEFI as an adviser several years ago now, 2018 and have come on since the beginning of this year, full time to assist Harry to work with Brian on moving both projects forward. So perhaps if I start chronologically, the point in the middle of the PowerPoint in front of you, was the June meeting of the Tulu Kapi finance syndicate in Cape Town. This was a very, very important meeting because all financial stakeholders were present either in the room and there were about 25 or so of them in the room and another 8 or 12 people online. It was also significant and so far as State Minister for Mining [ Million ] was present with his policy adviser, Dr. Eyob. And it gave the minister an opportunity to meet and listen to the various syndicate members, listen to their concerns, but also to see how they were supporting the project. The minister also listened carefully, reaffirmed Ethiopia's commitment to the mining industry as one of their pillars of economic growth. It was one of those rare opportunities where you get ministers, contractors, financiers and other advisers to be in a room together and have wide range in conversations around the funding requirements of the project budgets, inflation condition -- and conditions precedent. And as a side of the commitment a few weeks later, most members of this group that were required to assign the Umbrella Agreement and some important conditions precedent came out of the meeting, none the least of which was the need for security, and I'll touch on that a little bit later. And that both lending banks have the same rights and protections within Ethiopia. Now this latter condition present it was quite an important one. And very quickly, the Prime Ministry itself got behind and supported this and has approved it. And the documentation for this is now in its final stages of completion, and that paves the way for project finance, a large hurdle that was cleared. The fact that it was completed so very quickly show support form the Ethiopian government for this project, and it certainly would not have been possible without support from the Prime Ministry, support from the National Bank of Ethiopia, support from Ministry of Finance and none the least the support from the Ministry of Mining, which leads me to talk about the cost endorsement and the Ministry of Mines. Now there's a process that we follow that was laid down by the National Bank of Ethiopia, whereby any costs incurred on behalf of Tulu Kapi needs to be ordered and endorsed by the Ministry of Mines. Now for various reasons, is this-- this first run has taken quite some time to complete, but the Ministry of Mines auditors have confirmed that the equivalent of USD 80 million has been spent on Tulu Kapi until the end of 2020. Now this forms part of our equity contribution, and this equity contribution has been endorsed by the Ministry of Mines and registered with the [ NBA ]. This is an ongoing process. We'll be going through this several times now. So we're going to get good at it mutually. But we're going through this audit endorsement process again for a further $5 million up until the end of 2021. Project launch. We've been working very closely with Constellis global security consultancy and another global consultant called SLR who specialized in ESG to ensure that our plans for proceeding in accordance with the project timetable is sound, robust and to make sure that we stay on the right track and give advice when we need it. Constellis in their capacity as security adviser, regularly review our security systems and processes and have made recommendations on how to derisk activities in and on the mine license area as well as in respect of logistics from the port to the mine license area. Now as everybody is aware, there have been quite some security challenges in Ethiopia in the last 12 months. And as Harry mentioned a little earlier on, the country is returning to normality. There are still some difficult pockets. And as far as we need to work in or travel through those areas, we've designed very robust fit for purpose policies, processes and procedures, which we've road tested in order to navigate our way through those areas safely. As a further commitment to our safety there, we've asked Constellis to constantly audit not only the systems, the processes and procedures we have in place, but also our compliance to them. And to also to ensure that these are live documents that they're constantly being improved and updated as we learn. As far as SLRs role in this project, it's the -- as I mentioned earlier, the ESG adviser but they'll be also leading the relocation and compensation part of -- a resettlement part of our work, which is not insubstantial. There -- one of their first steps other than looking through our plans and working with us on planning this has been to lead and conduct a series of relocation, resettlement, workshops in the middle of September with Tulu Kapi stuff. We've got various regional and local government representatives joining us in those and as well as other stakeholders such as the roads authority and the electricity company, EEP. As far as EEP goes, we're working very closely with EEP around this as well. They're supplying the electricity to the site from the town called Gimbi, and we're mutually resolving overlapping problems that we have, any potential obstacles and planning to get electricity up and running according to schedule. So that all of us made our respective milestones. In short, I'd say we've engaged very effectively with all of these stakeholders and are collaborating with them daily. We have our -- one of our key people, leading relationships up there at the moment from South Africa. He's up in Gimbi in our regional office working with the zone administrators on the very matter of relocation. And further on project, we've now received updated numbers from our 2 main contractors. And there are a significant portion of our costs going forward. We've started evaluating these documents in detail, and they are quite comprehensive. There's a lot of technical detail in them, which we're coming through, and we hope to have those reviews sort of finalized in the coming weeks. So in summary, I can say that the TKGM team in Ethiopia is moving ahead persistently, systematically, consistently with a safety-focused can-do attitude. So having said that, I'll pass over to Brian to talk about Saudi. Thank you very much.

Thanks, Eddy, and good afternoon, everybody. Thank you for taking the time out to attend and listen in to this webinar. I'm talking to you from our office in Taif, which is in the western part of Saudi Arabia. It's about to hour drive from Jeddah to get to Taif. The reason I like Taif is that it's about a mile above sea level. So while the temperature in Jeddah today is 40 degrees. It's a cool 30 degrees in Taif. Just in terms of by way of introduction, I joined with Eddy. I joined Harry in 2018, and I spent a year really helping to get things going in Ethiopia. And then at the end of 2018, Harry asked me if I would come across and take on the Saudi Arabian joint venture. And at that stage, I must be quite honest and say, I knew very little about the country. So it's been a real journey for me. We arrived here really in January 2018 and had a team of 5 people. And I think that within 3 months, I was beginning to bang on the KEFI management door and saying, this is where the future of KEFI Minerals is. This is a stunning country from a geological point of view, the resource in the western part of the country has really not been tapped, and we have a first foot advantage in this country, which is without peer. We now have the biggest exploration team in Saudi Arabia. And I can tell you that the last 3.5 years have been pretty well full on. So we started with 5 people. Today, we have 70 and projection is by the end of the year, we will probably exceed 100%. And by the latter part of next year, we will have 500 people in the organization. So you can imagine that my challenges are not only on the technical side, but also in really building and hardwiring an organization. Very briefly, what we have today is 2 gold projects and an extensive exploration portfolio. We talk very briefly about the Jibal Qutman project. Jibal Qutman was really first foot on the golden and minerals radar in 2012. We did 3 years of exploration drilling before they changed the Mining Act. And at that stage, from a strategic and tactical point of view, exploration was closed down, and our joint venture partner ARTAR submitted a mining license application. Unfortunately, the ground is held by the government department or 1 of the ministries and it's taken us 5 years of positive engagement between the Ministry of Industry and Mines and that particular ministry for us to be able to get access on to that property. That internal debate was really went right up to the Royal Court and the Royal Court has come down in favor of allowing us to reengage and restart the Jibal Qutman process. In the interim period, Jibal Qutman well, originally, when we did the original PFS, the gold price is hovering around about $1,300 or $1,200 an ounce. Today, at $1,700 an ounce. This project looks vastly different. And on that basis, we took the original PFS document and we commissioned back a podium to start the DFS, and I'm happy to say that, that remains on track, although we're still having some challenges regarding access on to site, but those are rapidly being cleared away. We then -- we'll work through that. And probably I need to take one step back in this one and say, as regards our licensing situation, because there was this long hiatus between the awarding by us submitting the mining license application. And this -- where we are today, what has happened is that they launched the new Mining Act and they also upgraded and changed the environmental regulations. So in discussion with the Ministry of Mineral Resources, it was agreed that we would -- we agreed that we would, first of all, acquire an exploration license, allowing us to get back into the area. And once the exploration license had been cleared, then we would then start with the mining license application. During the exploration license phase, we will restart our exploration programs and we will also then start our environmental and social assessment, which will then need to get cleared by the ministry. That has been fully supported by the Ministry of Mineral Resources and the Minister -- Vice Minister himself has as one of the high priority projects in Saudi Arabia. Just to give you a perspective, Jibal Qutman will be the third largest gold mine in Saudi Arabia and the first new gold mine in the next year. And what we talk about the future of Jibal Qutman is those exploration licenses, we will have 3 of them covering an area of 270 square kilometers. The original 0.5 million ounce reserve that we are hoping to define in our DFS stage will obviously -- was based on an area of 23 square kilometers. So I'll leave you to do your calculations of how much -- what the potential is of our 230 -- or 270 square kilometers of exploration. So that's the Jibal Qutman project. It's a simple project. It's pretty much a gold -- straight gold plant, like a podium build, on average, one of these a year, we -- there are obviously always challenges with these things, but they will go ahead. Hawiah is a much more complex beast, but it's a much bigger beast. And we discovered this in 2019 and in the end of 2019, we declared a resource of 19 million tonnes. A year later, we had expanded that to 25 million tonnes. And I can assure you that this year, we have continued in that trajectory, and we will be completing our new MRE in the latter part of 2022. And I can assure you, as of today, it won't be 25 million tonnes. What we've then done is really started the PEA in 2019. We did our further work in moving the resource from an inferred to indicated category in 2021. And we have now commissioned our PFS. The PFS is on track. It should be delivered in December this year, as they say, in Saudi Arabia, In sha'Allah. And at that stage, we will then start considering whether we move through to a mining license application, and we would then obviously hope to commission our definitive feasibility study in 2024. We're not in a terrible rush with Hawiah and for obvious reasons. First of all, we want to construct the Jibal Qutman project. We will then have a full project team on site, and that project team will then move across to commence construction on the Hawiah. So really, our timing is everything on this front. We will then hopefully within the next 2 or 3 years, have 2 major producing mines. The Hawiah projects will be probably second to the Jibal side, based metal mine, the second largest base metal operation in Saudi. So if you sum those 2 up, my kind of back of the cigarette packets estimation at the moment is that we will be producing in the region of 200,000 gold equivalent ounces. Obviously, that would comprise about 18,000 tonnes of copper, about 12,000 tonnes of zinc in concentrate a year, plus 50,000 to 70,000 ounces of gold from our 2 projects. That's not the end of the story. And I'm really blessed with an excellent exploration team. As I say, we've got 3 teams now working in the country. And our exploration manager has been given the task that he has to deliver me another 2 projects within the next 5 years. So we hope that by the time we finished with Hawiah that we will have our third project up and running. But that -- the endowment in this country is such that I have no doubt in my mind that there will be another mine in our doorstep. And closing off, I'll make one comment is that this is not -- our journey has not been made possible or has been made possible by the support of our Saudi partner, ARTAR. They are fully, fully committed. And if there's a message that I would offer to KEFI shareholders is that ARTAR have the intention to build a genuine mining company in Saudi Arabia and the challenge for KEFI shareholders is to be able to keep the stake that we have in this company as it grows into the future. I think I've said enough, Harry, so I'll leave the rest to you.

Thanks, Brian and Eddy. Okay. In the same sort of spirit of condense, a corporate update onto this one slide, and then I'll finish off with a couple of other summary slides. So today, we have 3 development projects at slightly different stages to the KEFI all those start already, Jibal Qutman perhaps start in the middle of next year and Hawiah a long behind that by a couple of years. Between the 3 of them in 2 countries, both of which have turned on for us, both of which were in a sense, retarding us adversely until last year. But now both of them have made large strides to either settle down their internal affairs as in Ethiopia or to overhaul their regulations as in Saudi Arabia. And those are pushing us very hard to get going. So whereas 18 months ago, we were in a sense of 1 project company in 1 country, which was in a bit of turmoil. We're now a 3-project company in 2 countries that have quite settled and very supportive. The risk profile of that is unparalleled within the history of this company. And obviously, there were times when in a fronting market when things happen outside our control that can very seriously impacted us to a good or the bad. And to be in 2 countries now is a level of diversity on the one hand, but there's also quite a lot of synergy on the other hand, between the fact that there's this natural pipeline now coming through, starting with one and growing to 3 projects, which between them will be the best part of 0.5 million ounces gold equivalent a year. So this company is going into a very challenging but very potentially rewarding transformation into a development and production house, although in the binoculars, if you like, of the global gold industry into a mid-cap producer. Now in preparation for what's about to happen in Ethiopia, we made a raising earlier in the year, derisked the balance sheet by repaying all our abilities and we sit with some cash in the bank and undrawn advanced facilities at our disposal. Our resource base has grown enormously. Over the last couple of years for reasons that Brian essentially referred to for Saudi Arabia. And our market cap is very low given the sort of ratings that companies that are on the go and development would normally retain in the stock market. So as I express it that as we derisk our development progress, and the stock market trader who sets the price at the margin can see that indeed 3 projects or at least the first one is starting to come on stream. What would normally happen is that the natural derisking that's taken place and is being observed, we see those numbers escalate as the market cap moves with it. Well, our development plan is -- was laid out in the annual report. There's no fundamental change since they report only a couple of months ago. I think one of the frustrations of the company, clearly, but it's also one of the strengths of the company, if I can explain what I mean by that is that if we want to run at our own pace, then we would raise all the money from our shareholders and spend all the money at our shareholders behest. But obviously, that's not what we're doing here. The vast majority of the capital that's going to be allocated to these projects for development is actually being project financed. And albeit that a lot of it is being project equity financed and equity financed up into the PLC. The fact is that KEFI shareholders today are putting up very negligible part of the total budget for development. And that -- what comes with that is the frustration and frankly, the responsibility and obligation to properly manage as a good fiduciary syndicate and have responsibility of all syndicate members and do it properly and carefully for everyone's protection. I'm not making excuses. I'm just stating the reality that KEFI is not just managing on behalf of KEFI shareholders. KEFI is managing syndicates on behalf of partners and contractors and some of those partners are amongst the most powerful richest families in the world or a government. So our duties are indeed very serious. Anyhow, the most important next step for us is the closing of the Tulu Kapi funding package, which I know is probably prominent to many shareholders' minds, and it's certainly the most important next priority for the company. And it's fair to say that Jibal Qutman and Hawiah would be financed in a similar way. But in a sense, it should be more straightforward because the majority owner is certainly not reliant on outsider or stock markets for capital, it's our only capital. But also the country doesn't rely on banks from outside the country to deliver a project finance because there's no shortage of capital inside Saudi Arabia. So all the capital for the Saudi projects will by and large be sourced from inside Saudi Arabia, whereas nearly all the capital for the Ethiopian project is being sourced from outside the Ethiopia. I'll keep moving. This is just a graphic illustration of the 3 projects in the sequence. And I won't dwell on the presentation, but it's just giving a schematic representation that there's the 3 of them move through their time lines. And you can already see that there's some synergies in the way we straddle other 2. And you've got expertise being shared within the company. What we're doing is building a -- based on today's resources -- this is based on -- today's resources has published in 2021, nearly 500,000 ounce producer of gold equivalents, mainly gold, but a bit of copper as well. Now I have no doubt that what Brian said has absolutely spot on. And there's no way that between 2022, '23, '24 or '25, we're not going to keep getting resources. So that just under 500,000 ounce production projection based on 2021 resources will obviously be a different number and we'll grow as we got our resources as we work through our agendas over the next few years. And replacing steps for the Tulu Kapi project, which is the nub of the short-term critical milestone for the company. First thing to say is that between February and July, the country settled down sufficiently for us to meet as a syndicate and make a decision to remobilize for closing. We were preparing for it previously and we suspended because of what happened last year in Ethiopia. And although it was very frustrating and I'm not making excuses, but I would have to say that it's a good thing. We didn't start last year from the point of view of protecting people and property to be in construction in the middle of resettling families. Whilst the civil war break out, it will be hundreds of kilometers away, would not have been a very comfortable position to be in. And as it's come to pass, those episodes of Ethiopia have passed recently learned a lot from them, from things that happened to us as a company as well. We are a stronger company for it. I may say so and we're all better informed, prepared and ready for going forward now. So in August, what did we do, we circulated the penultimate structure and model. But if banks approved to proceed on essentially the same terms, as Eddy said, a bit of ironing out to go, but it seems to be happening. The Constellis security report essentially said that their plans and systems and policies and behaviors are fit for purpose. And we have to upgrade, obviously, as we proceed. We received our lead contract as final pricing and terms. Over the last 10 days, we've got the final one. And so we've rolled up our sleeves and the teams are crawling all over and deep diving into it with our contractors to unpick anything we're not comfortable with or needs explanation and then to make sure we assemble in the right format that we're comfortable with and our banks will be comfortable with, then we're going to seek board approvals. September will be the result of the final terms and pricing with these contractors agreed the final consequential structure with syndicates simply that's our lead financers between them putting up $200 million of the package in debt and sub debt and equity, approving the final structure for all the boards. And there are about a dozen entities involved in this. We'll sort of add up all the different components of the syndicates and finalize all the documentation for a financial close by the end of October. And following that would a stage disbursement schedule equity flows first. And then the sub debt and then the debt and the debt wouldn't be needed probably through the second half of 2023 just based on the disbursement schedule. Small consolation for not being able to see, so I apologize again, but that's the photo of the 3 people who have been talking to you tonight. And I thank you for your attention. Now we've taken 40 minutes for the introductions and the presentation. And what I'd like to do now is to move straight into the Q&A. And there are a whole list of questions that were submitted as of yesterday, which we've provided to us, which I can guide through and my colleague, John Leach to say some of them. And then if time permits, I'll gave the -- that just lodged during the talking. And I'll try to keep it to about an hour, not to overstay our welcome, but anything we don't answer we will go through and assemble for the Q&A on our website.

All right, the first question, what's the planned date for signing definitive agreements and first draw down till the KEFI sign definitive agreements? The answer is to sign the definitive agreements at the end of October. You normally have some weeks or a month of executing all the various settlement documentations and registrations in various departments and so on, and that's going to be quite democratic in Ethiopia. Syndicate members will then provide funds into the equity funds into escrow accounts for their lawyers to check satisfaction of condition precedent. There's a large multinational with a local subsidiary that's subscribing convertible equity and ratable into KEFI and subscribing down in Ethiopia and have a special permission from the government to convert it to KEFI. It's a good deal for them because they get to repatriate some of their accumulated result -- returns by investing into KEFI and it's a good deal for us because they converted at the very well 3 years, hence, it's not dilutive at today's prices. So got sort of an unusual transaction, but all done with the blessing of the authorities because it suits both the country and the private parties involved. Institutional investors, we really do want the -- to give the market the opportunities as I just -- what we've done when we signed these agreements because there are large [indiscernible] borrowings outstanding and the share price in the market trades at 2.4p or more, they have -- those what else have to be exercised at 1.6p. And that brings a significant amount of last brick-and-mortar type of capital to the project. But obviously, we don't control the markets and the people I'm talking to on this call are into the controllable market that we are. And then, of course, sub debt and debt follows the equity fees. Given the fast tracking of Saudi Arabia, would it not be worth divesting a small part of Ethiopia and return some to shareholders by way of a special dividend? I mean we're happy to consider anything that's reasonable in due cost, but let's get it financed and build and worry about cutting up our supports and we've actually achieved something and get the show on the road. What steps need to be undertaken to receive the Ethiopian exploration license back in KEFI's hands? It's discernible for anyone in the public by going into the government website, and I know various shareholders have done this. I can see that licenses that we deployed for were granted to -- or were purportedly granted to a Hong Kong Shelf Company owned by British Virgin Island Shelf Company, which is a bit strange. But what I can say is that we have reserved our rights, we will act on it. I just speak publicly as the tactics and that sort of thing is not really appropriate. But let's -- first things first, let's get the mine in development and then sort out those issues later. But the other thing I would say is that without -- in any way just missing the relevance of retaining access to satellite prospects around to the KEFI. Clearly, by having been a bit stymied in Ethiopia, over the last few years, I think when I hear in Brian's voice, the reality that we certainly [ polished ] our time. We got on and achieve things in Saudi Arabia through Brian and his team there that we shall take note of. We certainly consider on twilling our funds and crying in our suit over Ethiopia. Whilst we were tenacious and we protected the people and the assets, we have put some serious exploration runs on the board in Saudi Arabia, where we could run. And we will do it in Ethiopia, but first things first. How will KEFI be reimbursed for financing 2 TKGM alone? In inceptions, cash flow reduction of liability, how much is currently outstanding? I think the -- there's a misunderstanding there. We haven't been financing TKGM to get money back from the project finance syndicates. We've been financing Tulu Kapi to develop to the Tulu Kapi. And that's why we're getting 70% ownership to Tulu Kapi there because we finance this and because of the mix of shareholdings going in now. So I'm sorry, if anything we've said is learn to [ new ] body, but we're certainly not -- we're not asking for the syndicate to pay us back our $80 million or anything. Other than small intercompany accounts, there's no sort of passage and money back from the subsidiaries at this stage. Why did an Umbrella Agreement suddenly become required? It had never been mentioned in previous dispatches. Is it legally binding? Are there penalties for anyone wishing to pull out? Basically, the Umbrella Agreement was offered up by this syndicate to demonstrate to the Ministry of Mines, they're all very serious and actually in good faith. Clearly, the ministry is under a lot of pressure and is applying a lot of pressure to us. And we thought that it was the right thing to do for everyone to demonstrate a test to and sign what the plan is and that they're likely in good faith and what the conditions are and they're all very clearly spelled out. And I must add some of the conditions are there to be fulfilled by the government, not just by the private sector. This is the first mine to be developed for decades in the country. And many rules and policies have been overhauled to allow this to happen. And there's still some consents and some approvals and signatures to go, and they all need to be in place for the investment to flow. There is no penalty for people to pull out only that they've wasted their time and money. I have yet to find a bank who will be penalized for not proceeding with alone, but happy to try it on [indiscernible]. Next, question is, in the annual results, it said that the [ EDF ] Ministry has allowed until eighth of August, previously stated eighth of July, previously stated previous dates, for project financing and launch commitments to be achieved. How could you have misread the situation so badly? The one thing I would say is the license is in good standing until 2035 and it's renewable for another 20 years. And I perfectly understand, the company perfectly respects pressure being applied on it, but it will only go so fast as it is safe. And so fast, it's conditions that are normal and satisfied, and that's all we can physically do and the company has demonstrated its resilience, and it has a good license and it will defend its good license. And I think the ministry has demonstrated its support of what we're doing. Next question is, when do you think TKGM will receive first money from an entity other than KEFI and who will be depositing it? The government spent about half of that $20 million commitment already. I'm not sure exactly how much, but I know the -- most of the electrical equipment for the power connection is in country now, haven't been fabricated elsewhere. The next big funds to flow are those that I mentioned earlier, the equity funds, which will flow after definitive agreements are signed. And I've answer it a bit earlier, but the equity first and the debt would come last next year. Next one, are you planning another placing before October? There are no planning to do that. I think I said earlier -- I mentioned earlier that we raised capital early in the year. We derisked the balance sheet, put cash in the bank, some of which is still there, and we've not drawn down any advances like we've done over some years now from very supportive shareholders who were there to provide working capital advances if we need them to reach a milestone like this closing that's coming up. Do we have -- do we still have the license for sort KEFI? I think we've answered that. If the mining license for Jibal Qutman received today, how soon would KEFI's share of the financing being required? Brian, if you're still online, do you want to answer that? How soon would we need to put the development funds in for Jibal Qutman if we got the mining license today?

Thanks, Harry. Just -- it's not a simple question because really, we're in a process now with the Ministry of Mines here. So as I said earlier, we're going to be issued with the exploration licenses, and there are just 1 or 2 administrative steps that we are still needing to care on that. And then we will start really mobilizing. And that really begins this process of us starting the construction at Jibal Qutman because one of the first things we're going to do is actually established a permanent camp on site. So those things will have to be funded by the shareholders in the early stage and things that we put up by the early infrastructure, bear in mind that this site is 40 kilometers from the main road. And so we will actually need to put in road links. We need to put in communication towers. We will need to put an account for people. And those are all part of the project, which the shareholders will be funding. During that process, we have been assured that -- by the ministry, that we will have the full support and we're move into the mining license application. And really, the only thing that's outstanding on the mining license application, quite frankly, is the environmental permitting, which has changed. So they're not there to judge whether this is a good project or not. It's just they're there to judge whether we've thought through all of the sites. And for them, the most important thing are the social and environmental considerations. We know how do we support the community, what's their value in the community, bearing in mind that we will be creating around about 400 jobs at that mine alone. So those are the issues. And it's not that simple for us to say we will get a mining license then we'll start funding. The shareholders will really be starting to fund the moment our exploration license is given. So I know that's not an easy answer to give, but that's the reality of it. This is work in progress rather than something about discrete steps.