Kelly Partners Group Holdings Limited (KPG.AX) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

November 24, 2025

ASX AU Industrials Professional Services shareholder_meeting 66 min

Earnings Call Speaker Segments

Brett Kelly

executive
#1

[Technical Difficulty] 2025 AGM for Kelly Partners Group Holdings Limited. I am Brett Kelly, Founder and CEO of KPG. It is now 9:02 a.m. Sydney time, and there being a quorum present, I declare the meeting open for business. I confirm that the meeting has been properly constituted. The company considers it appropriate to hold the 2025 AGM as a virtual meeting in a manner that is consistent with the Corporations Act 2001 and the company's constitution. In opening the 2025 AGM, I would like to introduce the Board of Kelly Partners Group Holdings Limited and other individuals who are in attendance: Mr. Stephen Rouvray, Non-Executive Director; Mr. Ryan Macnamee, Non-Executive Director; Mr. Paul Kuchta, Executive Director; Ms. Ada Poon, Executive Director; Mr. Kenneth Ko, CFO; Mr. Jeshan Velupillai, Partner of BDO; Mr. Ron van Driel, Director of BDO; and Mr. Tim Aman, Partner of BDO. There are no apologies for today's meeting. Being a virtual meeting, I would like to thank you for joining us via the Zoom webinar platform. You will see at the bottom of your screens that the Zoom webinar contains a Q&A function. The function can be used to submit questions or comments. When you submit a question or comment, please start with which resolution it relates to so that it can be addressed at the appropriate time. Questions which relate to the general business of the company will be collated and addressed after the close of the formal business of the meeting. The agenda for today's meeting will be as follows: Kenneth Ko and myself will provide a corporate presentation update, after which we'll proceed to the formal matters to be considered at today's AGM with opportunity for questions relating to the formal business. And finally, there will be an opportunity for questions and discussions, including on the corporate presentation. Well, great to see everybody, and we have prepared a very quick update presentation that we are pleased to share with you this morning. The business continues to prosecute its mission, values and vision, its strategy and in a clear and settled structure with much vigor and energy, and I'm incredibly humbled by and pleased with our teams across all offices for their massive efforts in moving forward clients and making a positive impact in their communities. The business again this year has grown its revenue by 25%, as you can see on that front slide, which is consistent with an average revenue CAGR of approximately 30% over the 19-year history of the firm since 2006. We're very pleased that the free cash flow per share and the return on invested capital continues to be very strong and in line with our long-standing approach to what we're doing. To Slide 2, we shared with you for clarity why we exist, which is to help our people, private business owners and the communities we work in be better off. Be better off means healthier, wealthier and wiser. Our values, we want the best for others. We do what we say, and we work as one team looking for the best way to do what we do. In terms of vision, we want to be the first choice employer for great talented people in the industry and we want to be the first choice firm that founders who've built tremendous firms think of when they're thinking about the succession and the future of their business. For our clients, we want to be their first choice accountant to business owners -- to private business owners in any market within which we operate. In terms of our strategy, we've shared consistently that in Australia, we're looking to be a top 10 firm, and the 2024 results will be out soon enough -- or 2025 results will be out soon enough in The Australian Financial Review that will indicate that we are close to or may well have achieved that target. We are not looking to pursue size for its own benefit or for its own sake, and we never have. What we are seeking to do is continue to grow the opportunities within the business for our best people, and it's that motivation that drives us to continue to grow the firm. In terms of globally, we want to see our Partner-Owner-Driver system working across the U.S., U.K. and Ireland to deliver outcomes for young professionals and all professionals that want to be better off in those markets. And we are making some great progress towards that end as we speak. The advantages that the business really operates from is business -- our group business model, our Partner-Owner-Driver system and our central progress team. This is all a system that's been refined in a critical activity network over nearly 20 years. And I'm very pleased to see the growing strength and self-reinforcing in a flywheel sense of those advantages. Our structure is worth understanding. Any business may have a strategy to do things. But unless it's got a structure to capture those efforts, it really is not going to be as effective as it otherwise would be. I'm often asked anywhere we go, what's the difference between our Partner-Owner-Driver model and a traditional roll-up. I think we explained that very well in this slide, and I'll leave that to people to consider. In the middle of that is our progress pyramid, which is the way that we think through the core operations of an accounting group or accounting firm, local firm. In terms of locations, we have 35 businesses located across Australia, the United States, Philippines, Hong Kong, India, U.K. and Ireland. And to think that our small 4-person team started in June 2006 has been able to continue to grow in this way to a team of 700 people across these locations is gratifying, but we haven't finished yet and we're not easily satisfied souls. So, we're very excited about where we are and what lies ahead. On the next slide, we're emphasizing that we're becoming a leading partnership platform. It's not hard to be a leader in an exercise other people aren't pursuing. It's one thing to be a platform. It's another thing to be a platform that seeks to develop partnerships. We think the lost art of relationship building and partnership building is really where we're strong, and we know that our Partner-Owner-Driver model is particularly unique in aligning the interest of all stakeholders right through our organization. In terms of team members, office locations, partnerships, our Great Place to Work score, all of these good numbers, ultimately, they are numbers that we should feel very pleased with. But what I'm most pleased with is the quality of our people that drive these results. Specifically for our shareholders today, there's now 25,000 active client groups with 95% tax and accounting that's recurring income streams with strong 4.7%. We're targeting 5% organic growth. Our historic average growth rate is 4.7%, and a very strong NPS. For shareholders, there's been 29.8% revenue growth per annum since 2007. Current return on equity at 30.5%, a strong 5-year average. Cash conversion is nearly 100% at 99.8%, and more than 1,000% TSR since IPO. On Page 7, for your reading pleasure when you get a moment is KPG in 10 seconds. I think, again, lots of good information. On Slide 8, what we're emphasizing is that the business is a business system that has a flywheel and knows how to grow. It's doubled -- the business has doubled 6 times in a row on average every 3 years. And it's not a straight line, although we've used a straight line there. That's what's available in PowerPoint. But really, the business grows and then it consolidates and it grows again and it consolidates, but there's a rhythm to the growth of the business that can only exist in the presence of a business system. And so it's exciting to see where that goes from here. On Slide 9, we've shown the progress over 5-year periods. We early on showed people a start-up phase, a foundation, a build phase and an accelerant. We're really at the end of that 5 years come June 2025 of that acceleration phase, and we're pushing into this next 5 years. Now, we haven't shared this slide before on Slide 5, and I emphasize that these are estimates, they are projections, they're not a forecast or guidance, but there's a logical continuation of the growth of the business over the last 19 years, what will be 20 years in June. If we can continue to operate within the system that we've developed and with the rhythm that that our flywheel has been pushing forward at, then certainly, what I look forward to seeing happen is a continuing compounding of that growth. This slide is really as much for our teams internally and all our stakeholders to understand that if we just continue to prosecute the argument in a gentle but vigorous energetic way that we believe that we can build a global organization for Australian private business owners that want to go somewhere that we aspire to. And to be the type of business that we want to be, we're looking to grow to this type of size, which, if it is size that is giving great opportunities to our best people, then it's a legitimate activity to pursue. So, unless we continue to prosecute our clear mission and values, then I'm very excited about what I think Kelly Partners can become, which is Australia's global accounting firm. Now again, the best place to compete is a place where no one else is playing. There is no other Australian firm that's been grown since inception that can lay claim or seeks to lay claim to being a global business. We are populated in an industry in Australia with firms that carry the labels of foreign-owned firms. And so as somebody born in Australia, passionate about Australia and its future, I'm excited that our teams are building really key and core infrastructure for the future of Australia, our kids and their kids. Australia needs a global accounting firm. It needs a global bank, and it needs a global law firm. We can't do anything about those other 2 things, but we can play where we play, and that is to build a global Australian accounting firm and that's pretty exciting. Anywhere I look in the U.S., there are Australians leading all sorts of institutions and organizations across every industry. That's the same in all parts of the world. And so I'm excited to see Kelly Partners take its place amongst those people that are pursuing things that I think really are in the national interest. On Page 11, performance, again, a bunch of numbers, revenue growth, EBITDA growth, successful programmatic acquisition strategy. You'll hear me, I get embarrassed talking about our own good stuff, but try to just quietly keep banging away doing it. But you can see that we have a programmatic acquisition strategy and more than a strategy, we have nearly 20 years of consistently delivering based on our systematic approach in that space. Strong return on equity, strong return on invested capital and really great cash conversion, which speaks to the discipline and energy of our people. In terms of performance, it is a secret goal of mine to have a compounded annual gain in book value of 35% for 20 years. We're at 35.4% after 19 years, and I'm confident that we'll get to June next year at more than 35%. The reason I think that's interesting is, if you imagine that we over the next 20 years on a per annum basis, and the business will become a significant and institutionalized organization. Now, I have no intention of doing half as well. I'm hoping we can do even better. But the efforts continue, and they continue in exactly the same ethos and practices they have since inception, which makes me confident that we can do okay over time. On the next slide, Kenny has whipped up the adjusted book value versus KPG, ASX and ASX 300. This is kind of worth a read. But most importantly, you'll see the amount of shares we bought back, the valuations at which we bought them back and how well we've done from that exercise. What we're trying to show here is that we've grown the business with $18 million of external/internal capital. In U.S. dollars, it's, say, $12 million. That's a microscopic amount of capital, and it shows a lot about the discipline with which that capital has been deployed and the effectiveness of our system to get a return on capital. On Page 14, you'll note that since the IPO where we had, I think, 45,400 shares, the total share count has decreased since the IPO, while we've grown revenue by 4.5x. And that isn't always apparent to people, but what I think is worth understanding. In terms of capital allocation, we shared this slide to demonstrate that we understand what capital allocation is and how to do it. and do it effectively. And we think that it's a scorecard for our shareholders to really understand and think through. You'll see us that consistent with this understanding over the long term. What I would say is in 4b, where we've made an occasional large acquisition and we've defined that as over $5 million in revenue, that number now is probably much larger than $5 million and you will see us do more of these larger acquisitions, not because we seek to, but we are being approached by more and more larger firms, which is interesting in and of itself. On Slide 16, it just demonstrates this consistent pattern of programmatic acquisition. The value of those firms over that period of time, not only have we increased the number of deals we're doing on average each year, but the size of those deals is also -- dollar value of those deals is also increasing. On 17, 28% of our firms now qualify, that 7 out of our 25 firms as top 100 firms in their own right. The #100 firm in Australia is AUD 7 million last year. Recently, we updated our annual brand study. We wanted to demonstrate the brand impact in Australia, how strong the brand is at this point. We are some 38 years on average, younger than our top 20 competitor firms, but our brand is very materially stronger with our target client base, which is really helping the business in every sense. On Slide 20, as our return on invested capital remains very strong, from '21, we continue to make additional investments now. I am asked from time to time, hey, Brett, how much more are you going to invest beyond the 9%? We're really leaning into using our internal capital to grow the business. It's the cheapest form of capital and the returns on making additional acquisitions and growing the business are our highest source of return. We have more than $300 million of potential partnership opportunities in our lead database currently. And we are doing everything we can to grow our team and to deploy our internal capital to take full advantage of the position that we find ourselves in. We're not squeamish on that at all. You've seen over time, it's grown and we've squeezed it back. But we are in a very, very large global market where we are very advantaged, and we are looking to take full advantage of our position at this time. So, I'm going to hand over now to our Chief Financial Officer, Kenneth Ko, who's been doing a great job running around Australia and the world, helping us move the business forward. Over to you, Kenny, to share the financials.

Kenneth Ko

executive
#2

Thanks, Brett. Just going through these slides, which were presented in the FY '25 results presentation. So, I'll really quickly just flip through them. And any shareholders can also refer to the results call for a more detailed version of these slides. So, these are the financial highlights for the FY '25 results. As Brett indicated, our revenue of $135 million for the year increased 24.5% on the prior year. Our margins of the operating business at 28.3%, and our underlying NPATA for the parent at $9.1 million, representing a 13% increase on the prior year. In terms of income statement, as I've covered before, I just wanted to highlight there that our Australian businesses are generating operating EBITDA margins of 30.8% and those other items I've covered previously. This slide is very good in presenting the different EBITDA margins of the different cohorts in the established and growth and subscale accounting businesses as well as our other complementary businesses and our global businesses, which are -- we obviously just recently have partnered with those businesses in those global markets and are working with them to improve the margins of those businesses. In terms of our balance sheet, very strong. And again, our lockup is maintained at 58 days with a very low amount of WIP days of 7.7 as of 30th of June 2025.

Brett Kelly

executive
#3

Kenny?

Kenneth Ko

executive
#4

Yes?

Brett Kelly

executive
#5

Kenny, just on that, just to add some color, we're seeing in the U.S. market, competitor groups are geared on a net debt to underlying EBITDA at 4.5 to 6.5x. So the business is very conservatively positioned from a balance sheet debt perspective. But we could do quite a lot more to dramatically grow the business from here. There's a lot of balance sheet firepower versus our peers.

Kenneth Ko

executive
#6

Yes. Thanks, Brett. That's right. And as Brett said, our net debt to underlying EBITDA as of 30th of June was 1.42x, which increased slightly on the prior year due to the debt we used to complete the in-year acquisitions. As Brett indicated, strong return of equity measures there for the group of 38.8% and 31.9% for the parent. And that's that. The debt and equity liquidity slide shows as at 30th of June 2025, we still hold significant headroom in terms of our debt facilities as well as cash on balance sheet. And on the right there, there's a table showing the movement of the debt across the period and primarily, again, relates to us taking debt out to complete the 6 acquisitions that we completed during the year. In terms of cash flow, cash flow increased by 23.3%. Our free cash flow increased 7.2% because of an increase in the scheduled debt reductions. As I previously indicated, we're paying debt down at a 5-year period from drawdown. So the debt repayment increased as we put on debt, but we like the accelerated debt repayments and keeps us disciplined in managing our cash flows. And our cash flow conversion for the period 2025 is 99.8% and consistent with our 85% to 100% conversion ratio. And the last slide here is the parent and NCI waterfall, just showing the proportion of the NCI and parent net profit before tax and how it reconciles to the parent net profit after tax in the financials. And I'll leave everyone to look at that. That's it for me, Brett. You're on mute, Brett. I think it might be the resolution slide, slides next.

Brett Kelly

executive
#7

Great. Thank you, Ken. I really like this photo. It was from our shareholder briefing in Omaha 2 years ago, I think, now. And it's a fun photo at fun times. Now moving on to -- I think I now hand over to Steve Rouvray, our Non-Executive Director, to move to the formal business as set out in the notice of meeting.

Stephen Rouvray

executive
#8

Thanks, Brett, and good morning, everyone. The notice of meeting was distributed to all registered members on the 24th of October 2025 and is to be taken as read. Voting on all resolutions will be conducted by poll. For the purposes of the poll, I appoint Nigel Bulling of Computershare Investor Services for the company's share register, who have examined and prepared the summaries of proxy forms received to act as returning officer and to conduct the poll. Shareholders in attendance via Zoom that have already submitted a vote by proxy should note that your votes will already be counted towards the poll. You do not need to lodge another vote unless you wish to change your proxy instructions. Shareholders in attendance that have not submitted a vote by proxy and wish to vote on the resolutions being put to the meeting today can do so by following the instructions provided in the letter to shareholders. On your screen, there are instructions for how to log into Computershare's online voting portal. Please note that the online voting portal is now open and will remain open until the poll is declared closed. If you are eligible to vote at this meeting, a vote icon will appear on the voting platform. Selecting this icon will bring up a list of resolutions and present you with voting options. To cast your vote, simply select one of the options. There is no need to press a submit or enter button as the vote is automatically recorded. Your votes must be submitted prior to the poll being closed for them to count. All undirected proxies or open votes that have nominated the Chair of the meeting as their proxy will be cast in favor of each resolution in the Notice of Annual General Meeting. Your Board strongly recommends that you vote in favor of all resolutions. Are there any questions on the voting process? Okay. I don't think there are any questions. So, proxies have been inspected and all those validly lodged have been accepted. We will now proceed to the resolutions set out in the Notice of Annual General Meeting. The first item of business is to receive the company's annual financial report for the year ended 30 June, 2025. The financial report and the reports of the Directors and the Auditors are now laid before the meeting. There will be no vote on this item and is a discussion item only. The company's auditor for the 2025 financial year is BDO, represented by Jeshan Velupillai and Tim Aman of BDO, and they are present to take questions relevant to the conduct of the audit and the preparation and content of the internal auditor's report. So, I'll ask if there are any questions or comments on the financial report or reports of the Directors and Auditors or any questions or comments on the management of the company or any questions relevant to the conduct of the audit and the preparation and content of the auditor's report to be put to the Auditor? I don't believe we have any questions in relation to those things at present. So, we will move to Resolution 1, the adoption of the remuneration report. Resolution 1 is as follows: to consider and if thought fit, to pass, with or without amendment, Resolution 1, adoption of the remuneration report as an ordinary resolution: that for the purposes of Section 250R(2) of the Corporations Act and for all other purposes, approval is given for the adoption of the remuneration report as contained in the company's annual financial report for the financial year ended 30 June, 2025. If you wish to discuss this resolution, please submit your questions via the Q&A. The proxies received in relation to this resolution are shown on the screen. And I now put the motion to vote. Shareholders can vote via the Computershare online portal. I don't think we have any questions in relation to that. So, I will just hand back to Brett to put Resolution 2 to the meeting. Brett, could you put Resolution 2 to the meeting, please?

Brett Kelly

executive
#9

Yes. I'm just trying to see it. There it is. To consider and if thought fit, to pass, with or without amendment the following resolution as an ordinary resolution: that for the purposes of clause 13.3 of the constitution and for all other purposes, Mr. Stephen Rouvray be reelected as a Director of the company.

Stephen Rouvray

executive
#10

Brett, if you could just put the resolution to a vote then.

Brett Kelly

executive
#11

I've got the long script. Shareholders in attendance that have not submitted a vote by proxy, have you done all of that already, Steve?

Stephen Rouvray

executive
#12

Yes. Now, we're on Resolution 2.

Brett Kelly

executive
#13

Not that clear on my script, my friends, but I'll put that Resolution 2 to a vote.

Stephen Rouvray

executive
#14

Are there any questions for the Q&A?

Brett Kelly

executive
#15

I don't believe.

Unknown Attendee

attendee
#16

No question on this resolution?

Brett Kelly

executive
#17

No.

Stephen Rouvray

executive
#18

Okay. We'll move on to the Resolution 3 then. Resolution 3 is as follows: to consider and if thought fit, to pass, with or without amendment Resolution 3, the reelection of Mr. Paul Kuchta as Director as an ordinary resolution: that for the purpose of Clause 13.3 of the Constitution and for all other purposes, Mr. Paul Kuchta be reelected a Director of the company. If you wish to discuss this resolution, please submit your questions via Q&A.

Unknown Attendee

attendee
#19

Steve, we do have a question from a shareholder on this resolution.

Stephen Rouvray

executive
#20

Okay. Yes, I did see that. Sorry, which -- okay. Yes.

Unknown Attendee

attendee
#21

It's the fourth question.

Stephen Rouvray

executive
#22

Yes, I've got it now. It's from [ Stephen Mayne ]. Thank you for disclosing the proxy position to the ASX along with the formal addresses. The only minor protest vote was 7.6% against the reelection of Paul Kuchta. Do you know what caused this and why some shareholders voted against it? Is it an independence question? Did any of the proxy advisors issue a report ahead of this AGM, given that we are now capitalized at around $400 million and are attracting more institutional investors to the register? Brett?

Brett Kelly

executive
#23

No, we don't. We have no insight into any of the voting. We have virtually no institutional shareholders, and we don't have any proxy advisors issuing a report. We find the voting, if you look back over the last 7 years to various resolutions, completely mysterious. We wouldn't be able to know who voted for what, let alone why. But we do take the point that the business is growing and it may attract more institutional investors to the register and they may advise us or others may advise us as to how they vote. But as for now, we have no insight into that. Yes, that's about it. I also saw another question. Do we want to share that question around Resolution 4? No, I'd just come to that after the next resolution.

Unknown Attendee

attendee
#24

Right. We can come to that when we put the Resolution 3 to motion first.

Brett Kelly

executive
#25

Perfect.

Stephen Rouvray

executive
#26

Right. Thanks, Brett. The proxies received to this resolution are listed on the screen. I now put this motion to vote. Shareholders can vote via the Computershare online portal. Right. We'll move on to Resolution 4, which is as follows: to consider and if thought fit, to pass, with or without amendment, Resolution 4, ratification of prior issue of placement shares under Listing Rule 7.4 as an ordinary resolution: that for the purposes of ASX Listing Rule 7.4 and for all other purposes, shareholders ratify the issue of 374,957 shares on the terms and conditions set out in the explanatory statement. If you wish to discuss this resolution, please submit your questions via Q&A. So, there is a question there, Brett, if you would like to address that.

Brett Kelly

executive
#27

The shareholder asked a question, why are you bothering to refresh the 15% placement capacity for such a small amount of shares? Please don't bring back similar resolutions in future years as it sends a message that you're planning a big selective placement when pro rata raisings are the fairest way to raise capital. What is our history in terms of doing selective placements? And do we always follow them up with a share purchase plan for retail investor to participate on the same terms? Any thoughts on that, Ken?

Kenneth Ko

executive
#28

We have not raised any capital since our IPO other than the most recent one we did in June, which was an internal capital raise with our partners for $4 million. We have refreshed that 15% placement capacity to allow us the maximum flexibility to pursue such raisings if we wish. It doesn't mean that we will or we won't. And that's why we've refreshed the 50% placement capacity.

Brett Kelly

executive
#29

That makes sense. Just for clarity for that shareholder, if they're not aware of the history, we've raised $4 million since the IPO in 2017, and that was a placement to equity partners or firms that have joined us in the last sort of 7 years that hadn't had a chance or couldn't get a decent sizing on market. But I think that any examination of the way that opportunities have been made available to all investors would make any shareholder very pleased with the conduct of the business.

Stephen Rouvray

executive
#30

Okay. Thanks, Brett. The proxies received on the resolution are shown on the screen. I now put this motion to a vote. Shareholders can vote via the Computershare online portal. Now that concludes the resolutions to be voted today. As noted, we are conducting a poll on all 4 resolutions using Computershare's online voting portal. Can all shareholders please now ensure that they have submitted their votes. I will allow another minute before the poll is closed. If you have any questions in relation to the submission of online votes, please send them through right now.

Brett Kelly

executive
#31

Should we move to the Q&A, Steve?

Stephen Rouvray

executive
#32

Yes. I don't believe that we have any questions. So I declare the poll closed and formally charge Nigel Bulling as a returning officer to count the votes for the poll. The results of the poll will be announced to the ASX and displayed on the company's website once they're available. We'll move to other business. Is there any other business that can lawfully brought forward, bearing in mind that once we close the formal meeting, there will be a chance for people to ask questions relating to the company and its business. If there's no further questions, I'd like to thank all shareholders for their attendance today, and we'll now end the formal part of the meeting. I declare the formal meeting closed. As advised earlier, the results of the poll will be announced to the ASX once they are available. We will now ask if there are any other general questions that shareholders would like to ask. If you wish to raise a question or make a comment, please submit your questions via the Q&A. I think we have one question from a shareholder that has been lodged prior, Brett, and I'll address it to you, which -- with the recent share price volatility, has the company bought back any shares? And if so, at what price?

Brett Kelly

executive
#33

So the company hasn't bought back any shares recently. We are quite constrained currently with the capital that we have available to take on the opportunities to bring firms into the group that want to join us. So our first and best use of our very limited capital is to buy into firms and partner with them where that opportunity exists. And we are frankly overwhelmed with opportunity at the moment. So we haven't undertaken any buybacks. If we were to do that, these are the sorts of -- the company is trading at a share price today, that if we had excess capital, we would certainly be buying our shares back, and we would do that with a great deal of enthusiasm in that large scale. But unfortunately, we're not in a position to do both at the moment. And so that's an opportunity for someone else.

Stephen Rouvray

executive
#34

Thanks, Brett. There are some other questions in the Q&A there.

Brett Kelly

executive
#35

Yes, I can take those. So there's a question, best practice governance is to have an independent Non-Executive Chair. Have we given this consideration in order to improve our governance ratings and attract more institutional shareholders to the register. Also because Brett Kelly is Executive Chair, it is not good practice for him to use the exemption from election for CEOs under Australian law. Has Brett ever been elected to this Board? And will he agree to subject himself for election at the 2026 AGM? Have I ever been elected to this Board? No. And will I subject myself to election in 2026 AGM? No. Best practice Non-Executive Chair, it is true. At IPO, we were told we must have an independent Non-Executive Chair. But we chose to ignore that, and I expect to continue to do that. Attract more institutional shareholders. Well, we frankly think institutional shareholders have not taken up the opportunity that KPG presented to their clients. We've, I think, performed well and given an excellent return to our high-quality shareholders. And whether those shareholders are individuals, family offices, institutions, we're happy to provide an excellent return to whoever is interested in availing themselves of that. There was another question from the same shareholder, which was how many full-time equivalent staff do we currently have? Approximately 700. And is this likely to fall over the coming 12 months with the rapid rollout of AI? Definitely not. It is -- over the last decade, there's been about a 50% decrease in the number of people studying accounting. It is very, very difficult to find high-quality people who have started accounting and want to be accountants in public practice. So the supply of accountants is very, very restricted and has been for many years now. And so we would hire every high-quality person we could, frankly, get our hands on. Are we rapidly rolling out AI? Yes, we are. Right across the business, we have 5 people internally as software developers, and we are strongly and very energetically bringing technology to bear across every part of our client-facing businesses as well as our internal services operations. I would struggle to think that an organization of our nature could be more energetic in that pursuit while doing it in a way that's profitable. Another question here. Can you please speak to the rationale behind the shared services acquisition in terms of how it fits the core strategic intent and what benefits it offers the incumbent business and whether this type of operation will continue to be an acquisition focus? So the recent organization Workpod that joined us in the Philippines. The Philippines is a great hub for high-quality talented people that can work in Kelly Partners businesses globally as well as in client businesses. There's about 1,150 people within that business at the moment. We think that we can grow that number over the next 5 years to 10,000 people and that, that business has tremendous opportunity to help us grow our core business at Kelly Partners and also to assist our clients and is another thing that we can do for clients and others will struggle to do. In and of itself, the terms that we have invested at and the nature of that partnership on a 51-49 Partner-Owner-Driver style model, we're very confident we'll add a huge amount of value to the Group. On that earlier question about AI, it's still very difficult to get high-quality people. And so our view is that the future is a global workforce and whether they're located in the Philippines, the U.S., Australia, we're just looking for people that share our values and have the skills and energy to want to be part of what we're doing, and we're very, very excited about that opportunity. Will it continue to be an acquisition focus? That organization was a client of the firm. And so we knew the principles and we knew the numbers and we knew the values and mentality of the people involved. And when they brought that opportunity to us to ask us to get involved, we were very, very excited about that. The same shareholders ask, can you speak to the people, capital opportunities, deal flow and broader resources that are required to reach $500 million of run rate by 2031? We need to grow our team and our internal team, in particular, in the M&A space. So in the partnership space, we do need help in that area. We've recently appointed and looked to appoint another senior person in the people team in the legal M&A space and in the IT space around data and AI. But yes, it will take a growing services team to build that business. Today, we've got about 42 people in the team. If the business is 3x the size, I'd expect we'll have 3x as many people in the internal team. On capital, we are looking at the moment to close a large debt capital raising on terms that we think are very, very favorable to the Group. And we continue to pursue that with energy to try and bring that to a conclusion. And when it is finalized, we'll be able to share more details. We would be open to raising equity capital at the right price on the right terms, but not urgent and not critical. It is our view that along the -- in the same way that Constellation Capital or Constellation Software is used, these debentures and bond style long-term debt arrangements that the nature of the businesses that we are partners in is best suited to long-term, long-dated debt facilities. And I think we can attract the right debt capital at the right price to facilitate that. In terms of opportunities and deal flow, I mentioned earlier, there's more than AUD 300 million of revenue in the pipeline, and we are not -- we're moderately active in terms of building that deal flow. We could do a lot more to be a lot more active, and we could close a lot more situations. If we thought that the organization itself could handle it and integrate in an intelligent way more than 25% annual growth, we don't want to see years where we do dramatic levels of growth that we don't very professionally integrate. So we're here for a long time, not a short time, and we want to see a compound situation for a very long time from here. I think the final part of that was the broader resources that are required. Well, we all need to get more intelligent and more thoughtful and to know more about what we're doing, which we work on every day. And hopefully, by 2031, we'll be a bit more of all of those things that with good health and continued blessing, okay. What is the impact of AI likely to be on KPG? How are you positioning yourself? We think AI is essentially, I think, as Steve Jobs describe the computer as a bicycle for the mind. AI will be like a bicycle for accountants. It is fantastic technology that is helping us enormously. There's 82 things that an accountant should do as a minimum for a private business owning complex family group. And our study demonstrates that on average, an accountant in Sydney does about 8 of those things. So accountants do about 10% of really what the client would want. And that means that there's a huge amount of additional service that clients would take on happily. If they were offered it, and AI is going to allow us to do that. I'm very excited about the technology and feel very good about how well positioned we are. Frankly, smaller businesses, I don't know how they would equip themselves or equip or equip themselves with the AI situation. It takes real organization of your software stack and your team, your software stack, how your data goes in such that you can get it out and then some real thinking about how to actually use these tools in an intelligent way, not to just make things faster, but to actually create value and an economically positive impact on the business for firms doing under $10 million. I don't know how they're going to deal with it. And certainly, what's coming through our deal pipeline is firms saying, we think that looking at these types of issues with you together is going to be much easier and much better, and we're going to be much better resourced than if we try to handle this ourselves. If they go and join very large mega organizations, they're worried, they just get swamped and they're not going to create value. So I feel like we're very nicely placed to deal with AI in the context of the firms that we're experts in, firms $2 million to $10 million, increasingly $5 million to $15 million. And I think, ultimately, it's going to push a lot of people towards the group, which is cool. A lot of talk about group EBITDA being 30%, but relevant EBITDA for the shareholder group is close to 7%, if businesses [ change ] a shareholder profit of 8%. [indiscernible] 51%, the large discrepancy. Am I missing something? Yes, Benjamin, you probably are. And if you e-mail our CFO, Kenneth Ko, he'll give you a detailed explanation of what you're missing and can take you through those numbers. Kenny, if you've got a screen that you want to share?

Kenneth Ko

executive
#36

I do. I do.

Brett Kelly

executive
#37

Do you want to take this shareholder, I can see his name here in this question.

Kenneth Ko

executive
#38

Yes, very quickly. So if we published these quality shareholders' letters on our kellypartnersgroup.com.au website. And approximately 1.5 years ago, we published Quality Shareholder Letter #13, how we think about earnings. Now within this shareholder letter, you will see the reconciliation essentially between for $1 of earnings, how that flows through our operating business into the parent entity and reconciles to that percentage of revenue that you're looking for. So I recommend you to have a look at this shareholder letter, which will give you an explanation on that question you asked.

Brett Kelly

executive
#39

Beautiful. Thank you, Ken. Do we have -- do you have share performance-based Constellation has for their employees and management. The answer is no, but we will do something about that. Also, are you planning on increasing the size of your acquisitions team apart from just you and Ken? And the answer to that is yes. We are planning to, in a significant way, grow the team in that space to take the load off Kenny and I and to dramatically increase the amount of work that we can do with the opportunities that are in that pipeline to try and better understand those opportunities and more swiftly bring them into the Group. Can you please speak to the geographic spread of acquisition opportunities, what this means for acquired investment to acquisition integration, shared services resources on a global basis? Yes, we are most advantaged in Australia, and we'll continue to focus on opportunities in Australia. That said, there are obviously huge opportunities in the U.S. We now have more than 8% of McDonald's franchised stores as clients in our U.S. firms. In fact, we've got more McDonald's stores than exist in Australia, which is really exciting. We're now at a core sites in the U.S. where the business has its own flywheel and can start to grow on itself and compound. We're larger in the U.S. today than we were when we IPO-ed the business in 2017. That said, we're more advantaged in Australia than we are in the U.S. We're into Ireland, and we're seeking to be in the U.K. We own 51% of Kudos Network, which has 60 firms in 48 countries, and we believe we're the preferred partner for many of those firms, one of which I met with this morning again, and we are just working through those 60 firms to see who wants to become a Kelly Partners firm. So as I've always said, I don't really care where a firm is located. If they share our values and we believe we can really help them, then I'm excited about that. We are working with our Australian team and our U.S. services team to do the integration and shared services on a global basis, and we'll continue to invest our 9% a little bit more to do that. But we don't expect that, that's too burdensome. We're building it up in those geographies in the way that we built up Australia, which is kind of a step at a time. Another question there. Is there a concentration risk on McDonald's? No, there's a narrow market entry strategy, which was to partner with firms where we had real expertise and they did too that was shared. And McDonald's is part of that. If McDonald's struggles to do well, McDonald's a pretty good business. That's a risk I'm prepared to take at this point. But again, the business will grow and that concentration like it has in Australia at different times where we've had a concentration will be mitigated over time. Just looking at the questions to see if there are any more. Is the U.S. listing still a priority? Under U.S. securities law, we can't say much about any intention or otherwise that we may have to list on the U.S. Exchange, be that New York or NASDAQ or in fact, in Canada. But it remains a priority to maximize the long-term value per share of our shareholders. And if we think that a listing in a different market would assist that priority and that clear objective, then we'll definitely pursue that. And like everything we do, we'll pursue it with a lot of gusto and effort having done the requisite diligence. So we continue to consider everything that would advantage shareholders on a per share value for the long term every day, and that's certainly one of those things that has been and continues to be considered. How you control for potential dilution of discipline when we have dedicated M&A staff along with the potential for more difficult integration is [ lower to earth ]? Yes, great question, Brendan. So we're not intending to allow M&A to be sort of distributed to numerous people to do deals that make no sense. If you look at the growth curve that we think is achievable and the historic growth rate of the Group, it implies a number of deals that we can certainly manage. If we wanted to grow 25% a year, 5% organic, 20% by acquisition on $150 million, that's $30 million -- $20 million of that is $30 million at $5 million deal at 6 deals, a little bit less it's 10 deals. These are not numbers that as a CEO and as a CFO, we can't and ensure that all of the elements that are critical to the successful application of our Partner-Owner-Driver model success are present to maximize the chance of success. So there shouldn't be anyone sitting there thinking, well, we're going to be doing 100 deals a year next year, and we're going to lose control, and we just won't be able to understand what we're doing to prosecute the sort of trajectory that we hope to deliver it's not a huge number. If we had $400 million of revenue today, and we wanted to grow 20% by acquisition, it would be $80 million. And at $5 million a deal, it would be 16 deals. And if it was a little bit less, it might be 20 deals, but I might have lost my hair and I might be getting older, but I can still manage to convince myself to get excited enough about what we're doing to look carefully at whether on 20 deals, the things that are essential are present. So I wouldn't be concerned about that at all. Now if deals get larger and materially larger, and we are being shown deals that are materially larger, some gigantic and some just a bit larger. So AUD 10 million, AUD 15 million, AUD 20 million. Yes, we -- they're not going to be done 5 steps removed from me or Ken or our Board or anyone else that's senior and significant in the business that has for a long time, looked at these deals. While I will publicly mention that Kenny and I work on these things, there's a bunch of our senior people, including our Board and our senior partners who've got involved and assist in these things for many years. So I'm confident that we've got the discipline and the smarts within the Group to do a good job of what we've been doing and some larger deals. Well, thank you, [ Brett ] and Kenny and Board have a fantastic Christmas and New Year. Cheers. Thank you. Now we might have exhausted everyone by droning on about our wonderful adventure at Kelly Partners. To all our quality shareholders, thank you for your long-term partnering in the business. We're excited to partner with our people, clients, communities and shareholders. And we're very excited to deliver day in and day out for all of you. I want to thank our team, our clients, our Board and our shareholders for another tremendous year. I've frankly never been more excited about the business, more pleased with the development of our people and more excited about the future. So thank you. And as I love to say, have a great day. I think in more formal speak, we should conclude the question part. Thank you for no further questions. I'd like to thank all shareholders and Happy Christmas. Thanks, again. Thank you, Board. Thank you, Kenny. Thank you, linesman. A good day was had by all. Thanks, Ada. Thanks, Ryan. Thanks, Steve.

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