Kesko Oyj (KESKOB) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Dear all, warmly welcome virtually to Helsinki, and thank you for tuning in for Kesko's Q4 and full year 2024 Release Call. Today's headline is year-end turnaround quarter result up for the first time in 8 quarters. This is good news after 2 years of declining quarter results. Our agenda today is the following: Kesko's President and CEO, Jorma Rauhala, will first give the full year and Q4 presentation. We have here together with us, our Business Division presidents, Ari Akseli for Grocery Trade; Sami Kiiski for Building and Technical Trade; and Johanna Ali for Corporate; as well as CFO, Anu Hamalainen. After Jorma's presentation, it's time for questions both by phone and via chat function. All the materials can be found at our web page under kesko.fi under Investors site. My name is Hanna Jaakkola, responsible for IR at Kesko. I will be at your service after the presentation for your questions and discussions. But now, Jorma, the virtual stage is yours, please.

Thank you, Hanna. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome also on my behalf to this release call. I'm Jorma Rauhala, and I have now the pleasure to present Kesko's full year Q4 results. Yes, year-end turnaround, quarter result up for the first time in 8 quarters, is our headline and it highlights the change in the fourth quarter. Now I will give an overview of our business performance and open up elements behind the result. In the end, I'll present the guidance and outlook for 2025 and the dividend proposal to the Annual General Meeting. Year-end turnaround. Q4 quarter result up for the first time in the last 2 years highlights for the full year '24. Kesko's net sales increased and comparable operating profit decreased. Grocery Trade net sales increased, profit was slightly down. In Building and Technical trade, cycle was historically low. Net sales were up, thanks to the Davidsen acquisition. Comparable operating profit was down. In car trade, net sales and profit decreased, profitability was at a good level. There were a lot of changes in the management team last year. I started as President and CEO a year ago, and there were several changes in group management board. During 2024, Kesko expanded to Denmark by acquiring Davidsen and additional acquisition of Roslev, Tommergaarden, and CF Petersen & Son were announced. The Roslev acquisition was completed last week, and the company will be added to Kesko's speakers starting from the beginning of February '25. Once all the acquisitions are completed, Kesko's market share in Danish Billing and Home Improvement trade is set to rise to some 20%. After these acquisitions, Denmark will become the third largest Kesko's operating country after Finland and Norway. Dividend proposal to the Annual General Meeting is EUR 0.90 per share, dividend payout ratio will be 81%, slightly up from last year. Net sales for 2024 totaled over EUR 11.9 billion, and it decreased by 2.3% in comparable terms. Net sales increased in Grocery Trade and decreased in comparable terms in Building and Technical trade as well as in Car trade. Comparable operating profit for last year was EUR 650 million. It decreased by EUR 62 million, operating margin was 5.5%. Operating profit decreased in all divisions. Operating margin for Grocery trade was at a good level, 6.9%. And for Car trade, 5.7%. For Building and Technical trade operating margin was 3.9%, which is a good result in historically low cycle. Return on capital employed was 11.3%. Return on capital employed decreased compared to 2023 in all division as earnings declined. Financial position. Cash flow was almost flat year-on-year. Cash flow from operating activities was over EUR 1 billion. Capital expenditures totaled EUR 676 million. I'll open up investments on the next page. Interest-bearing net debt increased year-on-year as a result of investments in acquisitions. Grocery trade store-site network and logistics. Net debt-to-EBITDA was 1.1x, well below our maximum target of 2.5x. We continue to investments in growth and to main CapEx both the Davidsen acquisition, the construction of Onninen and K-Auto's shared logistics center in Hyvinkaa, Finland, and store site investments in Grocery trade. The store site investments include real estate acquisitions of K-Supermarket, Mankkaa property, Espoo as well as K-Citymarket, Salo's property. IT investments were EUR 18 million. But actually, the large amount of IT investments are a software type of SaaS investments and classified as OpEx instead of CapEx. We have a clear focus on improving our digital capabilities throughout the company. Other investments include Davidsen, logistics center Onnela as well as investments in the leasing car fleet. Expenses. Expenses were up due to Davidsen acquisition and real estate costs. We have succeeded well in focusing on cost efficiency. For example, excluding Davidsen, personnel expenses have increased only by 0.9% year-to-date despite significant wage increases. Fixed costs were EUR 2.76 billion and cost ratio was 17.4%. And now to Q4 results. As said, this was the first quarter result improvement in 8 quarters. Net sales in Q4 totaled over EUR 3 billion. It was up by 1.1% in comparable terms. The net sales grew in Grocery trade by 1.2% and Car trade by 9.7%, but decrease in Building and Technical trade in comparable terms by 1.7%. In Q4, comparable operating profit was at EUR 170.8 million and operating margin was 5.6%. Comparable operating profit increased in Car trade and decreased in Grocery trade and Building and Technical trade. Now to the Grocery trade. In Q4, stable performance. Highlights in Grocery trade in Q4. Net sales grew and operating margin was at a good level. K-Group Grocery sales were up by 1.6%. Kespro's net sales were up by 2.5% and the growth exceeded again to market growth and Kespro gained market share. K-Citymarket non-food sales were down by 1%. Online grocery sales grew by 7.6%, thanks to fast deliveries. Total grocery market growth in Finland was approximately 2.8%. We increased investments in price in line with our strategy. Market share declined, slowed down towards the year-end. Christmas sales were especially good in the K-Citymarket chains, which won over market share in the hypermarket category in December. General grocery price inflation in Finland was approximately 0.9% according to the Statistics of Finland. Customer flows continue to grow, thanks to campaigns, but average purchase decreased. In our Grocery trade strategy, we have 3 main topics: price, quality and store network. Firstly, to Price Program. Price Program was introduced in stores in line with our strategy. Price Program rolled out in January this year, weaker prices of some 1,200 products in K-Group grocery stores. Kesko and K-retailers together are investing into this long-term program nearly EUR 50 million during 2025. Also, our suppliers participate, but their contribution is not included in this EUR 50 million investment. We will continue executing the program throughout the year and upcoming measures are included in the EUR 50 million investment. Prices were cut on some 1,000 branded everyday products and some 200 popular Pirkka private label products. Price reductions on branded products were average to 4% to 6% and up to 15% to 20% in some cases. And price reductions on Pirkka products were on average 9% to 12%. Operating margin target for grocery trade in '24-'26 strategy period is clearly above 6%, despite investments in price and store network. And then to another strategic focus area. There is an increased focus on quality. K-Group is and will be the quality leader in Finnish grocery markets. Our unique retailer business model enables the constant development of store-specific business ideas and the quality. Store-specific business ideas are created by using customer data based on customer profiles of local residents and customer purchasing behavior. This information is used when creating matching selections and services for the stores catchment area. Digitally-assisted services enable increasingly personalized and individual customer experience. Increasingly relevant personal offers are very important. The K-Ruoka app is the most popular in Finland, and it has some 800,000 weekly users, the number of users is up by 38% in '24. As the media and advertising environment is changing rapidly, the importance of K-Ruoka app is growing, and we are in an excellent position in this change. All selections are wide. We have a large variety from brand products to high-quality private labels and also the most affordable price fighters. This gives a clear competitive advantage. There is also a lot of further potential in store specific business ideas. Currently, execution of store-specific business ideas differs between stores. Kesko is supporting the K-retailers by digital systems and services in executing their store specific business ideas. We're also strengthening our store site network as planned. Investments in the store network continued. The impact will become visible especially towards the end of Kesko's 2024-2026 strategy period. Kesko invests on average EUR 200 million to EUR 250 million annually in store updates and new stores. In 2024, we renewed 44 stores and opened 15 new stores. K-Citymarket Vuosaari in Helsinki was opened in November last year. In '25, we will renew 48 stores and open 15 new stores, including a new K-Citymarket in Lempaala Ideapark near Tampere, and K-Citymarket Paavola replacing an existing outdated store in Lahti. In 2026 and 2027, new K-Citymarkets in Haapaniemi, Kuopio and Kivisto, Vantaa; and a new K-Citymarket replacing existing outdated store in Porvoo will be opened. New K-Citymarket stores are also planned for Ritaportti, Oulu '27, and is Espoon Keskus Espoo in '28. In the picture, you can see a virtual photo of K-Citymarket Kivisto not too far from the Helsinki-Vantaa Airport. This is a brand new and growing residential area without any other competing hypermarkets. Building and technical trade in Q4 result in line with expectations. Building and technical trade highlights in Q4. If we look at the construction market in general, the construction cycle is still weak, but we saw sales development, improvement in all our operating countries towards the year-end compared to the beginning of the year. In Denmark and Poland, sales improved clearly. In Finland, sales development of K-Rauta and Onninen were at Q3 level. In Norway, Byggmakker sales development improved and Onninen's was almost flat on Q3. In Sweden, sales development was impacted by the closure of K-Rauta stores. Overall, Q4 net sales were in line with our expectation as well as comparable operating profit. Comparable operating profit for Finland, Denmark and Poland exceeded our expectations, but fell short in Sweden and Norway. Full year '24 operating margin of 3.9% is a good result in a historically weak cycle. It's good to bear in mind that our long-term target in this business is 6% to 8% operating margin and the target is very valid as the cycle turns. In Norway, Kesko made EUR 40 million goodwill write-down for Byggmakker due to weaker than anticipated profit development in '24, a weak cycle in Norwegian construction and Norwegian high interest rates. This write-down does not impact the comparable figures. Credit risk is well under control even in this harsh market, write-downs of overdue trade receivables totaled EUR 2.4 million. Share of result from Kesko Senukai was EUR 10.1 million. In this picture, we can see K-Rauta's and Onninen's sales development in Finland since 2019. We saw this picture twice already. And here, you can see the Q4 development too. K-Rauta is the market leader in Building and Home Improvement business in Finland and Onninen in technical trade. Both have nearly 50% market share, so this picture describes the Finnish building and home improvement market well. In the graph, we can see that sales development was pretty much in line with Q3 development. Last quarter, I highlighted that the growth rate was not expected to continue as a straight line. For the current year, '25, we will have 1 trading day less in January. But I can say that if we draw the line further, the development has improved. In January, K-Rauta was clearly about the zero level driven especially by good B2B sales. Onninen is at the zero level taking into account 1 less trading day. Byggmakker sales development. Norway is our second largest operating country and Byggmakker is among the largest players in the market. After several quarters of weak development in 2024, the year-end and sales development has been improving, and we can see the sales returning. The year ended just marginally below the zero level. For the current year '25, January sales are always impacted by the holiday season, but we can see that the end of the month sales development was improving in January. If we look at the other countries, last quarter, strong sales development in Denmark, Poland and Baltic countries has continued also in January. As we have been saying for some time, that we estimate that the construction cycle will turn in 2025. We will see low comparable figures in the first half. We expect the construction activity to grow in the second half, which will support our performance. And then to car trade in Q4. Highlights for the Car trade Q4. Market demand for new cars remain muted. Q4 first registration of passenger cars and vans were minus 3% in the market. At the same time, the first registration of brands represented by Kesko grew by 10%. Net sales and comparable operating profit grew clearly despite a challenging market. New car sales increased, in particular due to good sales of Volkswagen models such as ID.4 and ID.7. Used car sales increased, and market share grew significantly. In Service business sales continued to grow. In Sports Trade net sales declined and comparable operating profit increased in Q4. Q4 market share declined, but full year 2024 market share grew clearly. Our business portfolio in Car Trade is balanced, 47% of K-Auto sales were new cars, 32% used cars and 21% services. And then outlook and guidance. Profit guidance for 2025. Kesko Group profit guidance is given for the year '25 in comparison with the year 2024. Kesko's operating environment is estimated to improve in 2025, but still remains somewhat challenging. Kesko's comparable operating profit is estimated to improve in 2025. Kesko estimates that its comparable operating profit in 2025 will amount to EUR 640 million to EUR 740 million. The profit guidance is based on an estimate of gradually improving economic cycle in all Kesko operating countries. Key uncertainties impacting Kesko's outlook developments in consumer confidence, investment appetites, as well as geopolitical crises and tensions. And then outlook for 2025. In Grocery trade, B2C trade and the foodservice market are estimated to remain stable. In 2025, the comparable operating margin for the Grocery Trade division is estimated to stay clearly above 6% despite the investments in price and the store site network in accordance with Kesko's strategy for '24-'26. In Building and Technical trade, the cycle is expected to improve in 2025 from the historically low levels. Profitability in the Building and Technical trade division is estimated to improve on 2024. In Car trade, the market for new cars is expected to stay at the low level. Demand for used cars and services is estimated to remain good. Profitability for the Car trade division is estimated to remain at a good level in 2025 despite weak demand for new cars. Dividend proposal. Board of Directors is proposing a dividend of EUR 0.90 per share to the Annual General Meeting. It is proposed to be paid again in 4 installments. This proposed dividend represents 81% of the comparable EPS. Well, this was my presentation. I guess it's time for questions now.

Thank you, Jorma, for the presentation. So yes, like you said, time for questions now. We will first turn to conference call line, but you can also ask questions through the chat function, and I read them as they come. But conference call, please.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Maria Wikstrom.

Yes. This is Maria Wikstrom from SEB. I have a few questions. And first, I wanted to touch the guidance range that was given out today, the EUR 640 million to EUR 740 million, given that -- putting into a context that you did EUR 650 million in 2024. So I kind of wanted to have a more color how did you come up with the low end of the range, given that you have stated earlier that you will defend the absolute EBIT in the Grocery trade and you see the Building and Technical trade cycle to turn in 2025, and you are facing easy comparables in the first half. So why you are actually seeing that [ 2% ] decline in absolute EBIT in the low end of the guidance range?

Okay. Thank you, Maria. I think that now even several years, we have started the year so that we have gave quite a wide range, EUR 100 million. And it was also this year. Of course, this range, of course, we are not targeting the low end of the range. So we are very confident what we have said that our profitability will improve this year.

What will add into your EBIT this year will be the 3 Danish acquisitions, of which, I mean, one, you have already completed. So can you please give a little bit of color for the remaining 2? And what will be roughly at about an expected EBIT that you expect these to add and you have included in your full year guidance?

Those targets from Denmark, I think they are not including now the figures. And of course, Roslev was now closed 1st of April. We include our figures, but we don't know yet when the rest Tommergaarden and Petersen will be closed. So it's too early to say any estimates about those effects.

And just to double check, I mean, the range that you've given doesn't include any assumption of closure of the remaining 2 of the Danish acquisitions? So you haven't calculated this additional EBIT in your guidance range?

That's true. They are not including.

And then my final question is on the relatively large extraordinary items reported in '24. Can you a little bit give a color, I mean what made you to do the write-downs in the Norwegian business at the end of the year?

Yes. Maybe this one is that I can start, and maybe Sami, you can continue about Byggmakker and Norway. All in all, I think the construction market is and has been very challenging in Norway. We are not the only player which has had some problems there. But of course, there are some -- something to improve in our own performance especially, I would say, this interest rate, if Europe for 12 months is something like 2.35% now. But in Norway, interest rate is something like 4.5%, and it has an impact to both what comes to this write-down and also what comes to markets. So those 3 elements, weak markets, our own performance and this interest rate. Maybe, Sami, you can continue a little bit about Byggmakker and now, let's say, even kind of a longer history, what we have made those acquisitions since 2018 and all what happens with COVID time and things like that.

Yes. Thank you, Jorma. Yes, good question. Jorma already elaborated pretty well -- or very well with the 3 points. But Byggmakker, of course, when we -- a little bit about the history, 2018, we acquired since 2018, 3 or so companies there. And of course, then the COVID came, and there was a big boom in construction markets overall. And of course, our business also was very healthy also during that time, and we made some EUR 70 million annual results, for example, in Norway during that time. And of course, then when the COVID passed and of course, also the market a little bit calmed down and then went to minus. We had some issues to -- as I think everybody in the market to lower our cost levels, OpEx compared to the market. And also, I believe our integration after these acquisitions were a little bit not probably done because of the so busy years during the COVID. But these are where the main reasons to say so. And of course, the market and interest rates like Jorma said, and also our own cost level has been the main reason for write-down. But I would say also that, yes, that we have fixed many of these issues now, and we are looking forward, of course, 2025 in good market as well.

Yes, definitely the situation is much better now. But Anu, you have something to add.

Yes. Thank you for the question. What I would like to also emphasize here is that this write-down was only 19% of the total goodwill and trademark. So we're not really talking about sort of -- this is not to me at least very dramatic. What happened really is that these 3 elements that were mentioned here, the weaker profit development in Byggmakker and then weaker cycle in Norwegian construction as well as the high interest rates, which have not been going down. So those 3 elements are now at the same time. So let's put it like that, that if the interest rates in Norway go down, would have gone down as the Euribor has, we wouldn't be in this situation. So I would say that this is no drama, only 19% of the total goodwill. So no big issue to me at least.

Yes. I have one more, which is relating the trends in the Grocery trade, given that, I mean, you now lowered the prices of, was it, 1,200 products. And I think you commented the January trends for the Building and Technical trade, so have you seen this impacting your traffic in your stores, as you know, I mean, seeing yourself more price competitive?

Okay, Ari, I think you can take this one.

Yes. Thank you for excellent question. This is -- we can be planned this action to be a long-term strategic operation. So actually, we are aiming to increase the average shopping baskets, because we already have been improving the customer flow in the stores and it's pretty much what we have been expect at current situation. We can see that customers buy these items, which has been decreased by prices. And it will take time that the whole mindset of the customers will move. But currently, it's like we have been expecting.

Thank you. I have no for other questions.

Thank you, Maria. Any further questions on first call line?

The next question comes from Magnus Raman from Kepler Cheuvreux.

Yes, can I come back to the extraordinary items, mean the goodwill impairment of Byggmakker is obviously a noncash item. Could you help us how much in total or approximately of these EUR 50 million are noncash?

Of the Q4 -- was it the Q4 EUR 50 million write-offs is cash?

Yes. Yes. How much of the total extraordinary of the EUR 50 million...

Yes. Well, if we take from EUR 50 million to EUR 40 million away, and then on top of that, what we have there is this K-Rauta closedowns in Sweden. And then also the nest of K-Rauta down. So I would say that I don't have the exact amount, but I would say that less than EUR 10 million, because out of EUR 50 million EUR 40 million is goodwill. So that is not impacting on cash flow.

Great. That's helpful. And then on the investments here, there are clearly stated in size in total, but when you say you're sharing this with the retailers. Can you help us understand is it sort of roughly a 50-50 stake here or something else?

Thank you for excellent question. Total amount is EUR 50 million, and we are not sharing how it's divided between the store owners and retailers and Kesko Group. But we are sure about the EUR 50 million investment is enough for this year.

Right. Okay. Because I'm thinking you now delivered a 6.9% margin in the Grocery business for the full year '24. And you stated you will -- margins should remain above 6%. And if I would assume a 50-50 split, I calculate sort of 40 bps, i.e. 0.4 percentage points negative margin impact, all else equal from these investments, some -- and you have talked about, of course, the hopes of this also rendering traction on sales and thereby rendering also to sort of a counter there on the margin on the positive side. So I'm just thinking about this guidance to remain about 6% feels a bit cautious. Should we -- is this your best guess or is it a very cautious guidance?

Magnus, we are saying that it's clearly above 6%...

It's clearly above [ 6% ] and its a good level. Always these activities are partly covered with a better efficiency and cutting of the cost and also operational leverage from the sales growth.

Okay. Clear. That's good -- clearly there. All right. Okay. I just had one final here. You talked about the strong end to the Car Trade business and then driven by -- you mentioned the ID.4 sales. Was it some sort of state incentive program that is tied at the year-end or something like that triggered sales? Or can we sort of -- should we expect the continuation of this positive EV sales development into the new year?

Johanna, you can take this one.

Yes. Thanks for the question. Yes, this, of course, in the Car trade, there's always some kind of campaigns going on, but nothing special in the end of the year. So we estimate sales to continue about at the same level.

All right. Thank you very much.

The next question comes from Miika from DNB Markets.

It's Miika from DNB. My first question would be, can you a little bit give more color on how your year has started in Building and Technical trade, especially I'm interested in whether you have seen any boring impacts or setbacks in Finland's outlook, given there have been some news of a real estate fund closures, et cetera. And in overall, do you see the year developing without any major regional differences in the big picture or has something changed?

Okay. Building and Technical trade this year, it has started, I would say, very much as we expected earlier. So when it comes to Finland and especially K-Rauta and B2B sales and January, I would say, quite pleased when the sales figures were clearly positive somewhere between 5% and 10%, and also Onninen also missing 1 sales day, but kind of flat level. So quite positive in Finland. Clearly, Denmark, Poland and Baltic has been even more positive what we thought. Denmark, we can see that now there is a clear sales increase and also in Poland. And Norway and Sweden, for example, but Euro construct has gave them latest forecast. They decreased a little bit that sales kind of market growth. But no any negative surprises. I'm quite pleased. January has started as we waited and expected. So it's -- and all in all, I would say that, that is the first half of the year. It's clear that those comparable figures are quite weak. And because of that, I'm very positive that the sales will increase and also profit will increase. And then the second half of the year, I believe that there, the market will be also more active on second half. But no surprises, let's say, so even some positive signs.

Okay. And then if we assume sort of a 5% organic growth assumption for that -- for the full years, what would be the incremental margin for that growth?

Well, Miika, we have given the guidance, EUR 640 million, EUR 740 million. So maybe we can refer -- and you can make your own estimates. We are not giving division-specific guidances.

Okay. That's clear. And then if you can comment a little bit how is your organic CapEx into 2025? And then is there any M&A firepower that you can think of?

Yes. So maybe, Anu, you can continue with what comes to CapEx this year. Of course, it's clear that we will complete this Onnela project that it is one, and of course, then we know those 3 targets in Denmark, those we will and of course, store site investments in grocery, especially those EUR 200 million, EUR 250 million. So those are the main CapEx what we will have this year. But Anu, would you like to...

Yes. A couple of words. So we are talking about approximately EUR 450 million CapEx this year or 2025 without the acquisitions and real estate arrangements. So these 3 Danish acquisitions are not included in this. And -- but -- and neither are these kind of real estate arrangements, what Jorma was talking earlier about '24 when we talked about the 2 or 1 Supermarket and 1 Citymarket arrangement. So -- but in general, coming back to Onnela, what we have mentioned also earlier is that our Onnela real estate will be like -- we will put less money there than what we expected earlier, which was EUR 300 million. So we are going to build it with a cheaper...

And then Miika asked about the firepower for additional M&A. So we commented that we had, of course, clearly below 2.5x net debt-to-EBITDA target. So would you like to give a number or -- well we said last June, EUR 1 billion...

Yes, I would say EUR 1 billion.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Rob Joyce from BNP Paribas Exane.

Firstly, just a couple on the grocery, just so if you can help us what kind of competitive response have you seen from your price investments in grocery and are you anticipating any more in the guidance for 2025? And as you sit here today, do these prices cuts look like that your '25 enough? Or do you think there could be more to do in 2026? So that's grocery. And then the second one is just on capital returns. To follow on the last point on the firepower, if there -- if the acquisitions, if you don't come across these acquisitions, would you think about returning capital to investors in the way of special dividends or buybacks?

So the first one, Ari, about the price program.

Yes, competitive response, what have competitors done after our program started?

Competition in the Finnish grocery market has been very tough during the recent years, and it continues to be that. But at the same time, at the end of the year, we made more price investment during the quarter 4, especially in December, and it seems that they work it very well, especially in the hypermarket segment. But we are a long-term player in the market, and we will continue this price program during this year and if needed, during the coming years. But at the same time, we differentiate our operation as much as possible from the other players in the market, and we are the quality leader in the market. So when the consumer actual buying power is increasing in Finland, we think that this will work in the future. And we have been able to increase the customer flow in our stores. And we can see that these activities that we started in the beginning of the January seems to work very well, especially if you look about the items, its prices has been discounted, customers buy them now more, and that's what we expected. So we are sure that we can keep the profit level nearly above 6% during this program.

Second one, was it something about firepower?

It was about the firepower, would we consider returning capital back to investors or pay a special dividend or something if we don't find any M&A targets. That was a question.

Well, I would say no comments on that.

Okay. Is it within sort of realms of your capital allocation policy? Do you go -- you look at the acquisition first then returns? Or how do you think about it? Maybe help us that way?

I think it's first the CapEx and well, let's see. It's also depending on the situation, our cash flow in general and profit and so on.

And we have a dividend policy of paying 60% to 100% of comparable EPS as a dividend.

And what comes to acquisition, we are strictly following our strategy about that and any Building and Technical trade and especially those are possible targets, let's say, especially in Sweden. Now we are doing those in Denmark now. And in Norway, we made this '23 [indiscernible], but especially in Sweden, but we are following our strategy on that one.

Thank you. There are no more questions from the conference call line. And I have a couple of questions here on the chat function, but we have basically answered the majority. There was a question about in Grocery trade. If price actions started at 100% in January, at what rate were actions in Q4? So what type of actions did we do in price program? You also talked about that? Would you like to say something?

Like I mentioned earlier, at the end of the year, more pricing investments were made than year before. But if you think about that level, it was reasonable and as we calculated, we made especially campaign investment to the end of the year. For a city market example, we have [indiscernible] campaign through the end of the year, which was new, you didn't do it before. So -- and if you think about the investment of the EUR 50 million, it's pretty much divided between the year, so it's a total investment of the year, combined Kesko and the K retailers.

Yes. And that EUR 50 million is '25, that wasn't used in Q4.

Yes.

Very good. And we discussed that price matter already. Any further questions? Conference call line seems to be silent already, so I will turn to Jorma as to kind of wrap it up. There's one question. Let's take that.

The next question comes from [indiscernible].

I have only one question maybe regarding the Car trade. So Finnish, I don't know, if authority or some organization, Auto all is expecting some 10% growth in new cars sales this year. So do you see it as a reasonable target in your new car business?

Okay. Johanna, please.

Thanks, [ Arthur ]. Yes, let's say that way, that we say in the guiding that we estimate new car market to remain quite weak. So not maybe taking exact comment on that estimate, but we estimate it to be weak. However, we believe that in our portfolio, there is nice models or the model setup or the product portfolio is already really good and there will be new models launch still this year. So we see it quite positive in our product portfolio.

Thank you, [ Arthur ], for the question. And thank you, everybody, for the good questions and good discussion. And if you have anything else on your mind, please don't hesitate calling me or texting me or whatever. But back to the wrap-up question for Jorma. How do you see the current year? And what are your thoughts now that the 2025 has begun?

Okay. Yes. Now we have 1 month already. So thank you all for your questions and discussion. And the year started as we expected. I'm positive and confident about the current year, although there are certainly national and global risks. I see the market situation in all 3 regions better this year compared to last year. So thank you all, and have a nice day.

Thank you. Have a nice day.