Kiavi Funding Inc. ($FIGR)

Welcome to the Figure Technology Solutions Investor Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] lastly, today's call is being recorded. I would now like to turn the call over to Bryan Michaleski, Head of Investor Relations.

Good morning, and thank you for joining us on short notice. My name is Bryan Michaleski, Head of Investor Relations here at Figure. Joining me on today's call are Mike Cagney, Executive Chairman and Co-Founder of Figure; Michael Tannenbaum, our Chief Executive Officer; and Macrina Kgil, our Chief Financial Officer. Before we begin, I'd like to briefly note that today's call may contain forward-looking statements. These statements include, but are not limited to, discussions about the anticipated benefits of the proposed transaction between Figure, Kiavi and Sixth Street, any financial and operational outcomes associated with that transaction as well as the timing of the transaction's completion. Any statement made today that is not historical facts should be considered a forward-looking statement. We highlight that forward-looking statements involve substantial risks and uncertainties and a number of factors, many of which are beyond the company's control, can cause actual results, events or circumstances to differ materially from those described. We are not undertaking any obligation to update these statements based on new information or future events, except as required by law. This call is being broadcast live and is available on site on our Investor Relations website, where a recording will be available later today. Additionally, we have posted a press release and supplemental presentation regarding the transaction on our Investor Relations page. Following the conclusion of the prepared remarks, we will open the line for questions. We ask that you limit yourself to one question and one follow-up during that Q&A period. And with that, I'll turn the call over to Michael Tannenbaum. Michael, please go ahead.

Thank you, Bryan. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us on short notice. Today, I'm excited to announce Figure's acquisition of Kiavi. Our mission has always been to build the future of the capital markets on blockchain rails. Today's announcement accelerates that goal by bringing adjacent important asset class into Figure's ecosystem. Kiavi's leading investor mortgage technology has proliferated in a backdrop of the aging U.S. housing infrastructure and a well-known housing affordability crisis. Its technology unlocks the financing that fuels the rebuilding and refurbishment of the American housing stock. By putting Kiavi's engine on blockchain rails, we supercharge its growth, driving capital markets efficiencies that propel its success. The transaction is a pull halt on our trajectory to bring more assets on to blockchain, and its impact is relevant across 5 core areas we've continued to emphasize: scale, first lien, AI, growth and financial impact. The first, scale. Kiavi adds $7 billion of volume across its leading products in residential transition loans and debt service coverage ratio loans, DSCR, both products that Figure has been offering through its marketplace and both in the fast-growing investor mortgage space. Residential transition loans, sometimes called fix and flip, are short term, often less than a year, but are relatively high rate and backed by a house, which makes them a natural fit for democratized prime, bridging financing before these loans are ultimately sold permanently through Figure Connect. We expect this transaction to add between $100 million to $200 million of democratized prime volume monthly, which is a step function change in the volume of diverse, high-quality assets borrowing in that platform. Blockchain-native assets are central to Figure's mission. To move Kiavi's loans to blockchain, we'll modify the origination technology to be compatible with our digital asset registry technology, DART, and therefore, we will track both the liens at the county level as well as prevent the eNotes from being double sold or pledged, one of the biggest differentiators of our capital marketplace. The scalability of DART is a competitive moat for Figure and based on our conversations with Kiavi's leadership, we expect their loans to be blockchain-native at close. Second, we've been highly focused on expanding our first lien business given it's a 25x larger opportunity than the second lien space that Figure dominates. We declared 2026 the year of the first lien and Figure has grown from 10% to 20% first lien in the past year, while doubling volume. The addition of Kiavi only accelerates that progress. Pro forma for the transaction at year-end '27, we expect Figure's total consumer loan marketplace volume to be 40% first lien. Third, on AI and technology, Figure has entered this transaction with long-time partner, Sixth Street, who will be buying the loans on Kiavi's balance sheet, while Figure assumes its technology, customer base and employee base. Sixth Street will originate Kiavi's residential transition loans, finance them on democratized Prime and then sell them via Figure Connect. Figure uses an AI-driven feature called Adapter to impose uniformity to disparate originator data schemes across all asset types in Figure Connect and democratized Prime, saving partners months' worth of time and resources when onboarding. Adapter now offers the technical capability to be performed agent to agent with Sixth Street expected to be the first originator to use this new agent-to-agent capability. Relatedly, on technology, it's important to highlight that Kiavi has invested over the last 13 years in an industry-leading post-renovation valuation model that predicts a home value after construction and improvements. This underlies Kiavi's market leadership position as the capital markets recognize the value of this model and reward Kiavi loans for it, allowing the platform to offer more attractive rates and loan offers with a flywheel effect. We'll use this technology to improve our HELOC product and its ability to estimate home equity. This also relates to how this acquisition will turbocharge growth. On growth specifically, Figure plans to take Kiavi's valuable technology, which is primarily marketed direct to borrowers and offer to our embedded base of 380 partners while preserving the relationships with Kiavi's strong base of professional customers that have propelled its own rapid growth. We have already started growing our investor mortgage business with around 10 partners having originated either of these 2 loan types. And we know Kiavi's market-leading technology will bolster this marketplace. Lastly, on financials. I want to highlight how this acquisition underscores our frequent emphasis on high margins, representing an incredibly compelling transaction and an exceptional allocation of our strong capital position. We have repeatedly communicated our focus on building a higher-margin capital-efficient business. Kiavi is a net income profitable company and a Rule of 40 company. With this acquisition, we are reconfirming our medium-term 60% margin guidance. Moreover, we see a less than 4-year unlevered payback period and believe the post-synergy contribution will be both accretive to EBITDA and earnings per share, furthering our commitment to financial discipline and compelling growth. Now Mike Cagney is going to share some remarks about how this connects to our broader vision before Macrina closes it out with the financial impact. Before I leave you, I want to say that we are excited to welcome the Kiavi's employees, partners and customers to our ecosystem. Kiavi is a profitable, fast-growing market leader and has done so much right, and we're thrilled to be partnering with them for the future.

Thanks, Michael. I want to take a moment here to touch on what's really compelling about this opportunity and how it makes up a natural extension of what we spent the past 8 years building. In HELOC, we proved you could take a consumer credit product, standardize the origination process, put the asset on blockchain rails and create a better capital markets outcome. Kiavi's RTL and DSCR loans are a natural extension of that. The residential real estate-backed assets with real institutional demand. And Kiavi has built the best platform in the market. The team understands the borrower. They understand the value of creating a homogenous asset, and they've built a similar business to Figure, technology first, capital markets oriented and focused on solving hard infrastructure problems instead of just the front end. That matters to us. We're not just acquiring the volume, we're bringing in a platform and team that are as ambitious as we are. And the benefits here of bringing this into figure are simple and obvious. Kiavi fits perfectly into our core focus today, growing our originator ecosystem for asset origination, democratized prime for financing those assets in whole loan and security form and the Figure Connect marketplace to trade them. Like HELOC, we're taking an asset that already works and moving it on to rails where it should work even better. Our partner, Sixth Street has already signed up to finance the RTL loans on democratized prime, where they'll benefit from lower friction, reduced legal expenses and deep pools of liquidity. Then Figure Connect becomes the other side of the equation. Once those loans are seasoned or ready for long-term placement, Connect gives us the marketplace to distribute them as loans or securities into permanent capital. So you get the full life cycle, originate through Kiavi's technology, finance currently through -- or efficiently through democratized Prime and place the asset through Figure Connect. So for us, Kiavi is not just more volume, it's the right volume. It deepens the originator ecosystem, Figure Connect and democratized Prime with a diversified, financeable first lien-oriented asset class. It adds collateral that should attract capital and accelerates what we've been saying all along, which is that the future of private credit is not going to be a spreadsheet sent to a warehouse bank for every 5 days. It's going to be assets originated, financed and traded on chain with capital competing to lend in real time. With that, I'll turn it over to Macrina to share how the numbers behind the transaction are just as compelling as the strategy underpinning it.

Thank you, Mike. Let me start with an overview of the transaction and what it means for Figure's future earnings profile. Figure is purchasing Kiavi as a joint strategic acquisition with Sixth Street Partners. The transaction is 100% cash consideration and Figure's portion is $538 million. Sixth Street will be purchasing RTL assets together with the right to originate these loans at close and will be our first partner using democratized Prime and Figure Connect with these loans. Figure is purchasing the technology, data, intellectual property, employees and the existing customer relationships. While Figure has sufficient cash on its balance sheet to fully fund this transaction, maintaining a strong liquidity position remains a key priority. Accordingly, in connection with the acquisition, we intend to launch an approximately $600 million unsecured debt financing in the coming months. Importantly, we expect to remain conservatively capitalized following the transaction with pro forma corporate leverage below 2x at closing. We believe this financing optimizes our capital structure, preserves significant balance sheet flexibility and positions us to remain net cash positive on a pro forma basis while maintaining ample liquidity to support ongoing operations and future strategic initiatives. In addition, the debt structure includes call provisions that provide us with meaningful financial flexibility. As we continue to generate strong free cash flow, we will have the ability to opportunistically delever and further strengthen the balance sheet over time. We did not consider stock as a form of consideration given where we see the valuation of our stock at this time. From a financial perspective, this transaction is accretive to our scale and financial profile, as Michael shared in his prepared remarks. In 2025, Kiavi did over $250 million of revenue and over $100 million of EBITDA. In our diligence and discussions, we noted that Kiavi was among the rare private fintech companies with fast revenue growth and high margins, comfortably above the Rule of 40 metric, which reflects its market leadership position. As a platform, Kiavi has continued to grow market share given its differentiated data and post-renovation value technology. Borrowers receive more attractive rates and loan-to-value ratios given the strong investor support for the AI-powered valuation technology. This flywheel means that historically, Kiavi has had the lowest losses but also the most attractive offers, and it is why the company has been so successful in the capital markets. This virtuous cycle dynamic is a natural fit in Figure's ecosystem. The transaction is immediately accretive to EBITDA post close with strong EPS accretion for full year '27. The company already had strong margins, which will be enhanced due to the capital-light structure we anticipate post close as well as cost synergies expected to be realized in the transaction. Furthermore, we see an unlevered free cash flow payback period of less than 4 years, which gives us confidence that this transaction is highly valuable for shareholders. Figure has been committed to growing EBITDA margin, maintaining a capital-light business model and increasing operating leverage in our quarters post IPO. This transaction redoubles on those commitments, and we maintain our medium-term adjusted EBITDA margin target of 60%. And with that, we will now open up the queue for questions. Operator, please go ahead.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question today will come from Dan Dolev with Mizuho.

Congrats on this really, really good acquisition. We had a question about why are you so excited about the RTL space? And why do you think this is the time now to bolster your presence there?

Thanks, Dan. Appreciate that. For us, I think this transaction comes down to -- it's a platform that we've been following for a long time. As Mike mentioned in his prepared remarks, this is a company we've known. We have mutual investors. We've known this company. I actually had dinner with the CEO, Arvind, back in January 2025. So this has been very much a transaction in a space we've been following. As you also know, we have started to originate residential transition loans ourselves. And so we know what that market looks like and what it takes to be successful there. And for us, we see a really big opportunity with Kiavi to supercharge growth and maintain that high-margin profile that we have, especially by partnering with Sixth Street. So for us, it's been a space we know. We believe in kind of try before you buy, and it's not an acquisition for acquisition's sake. And for us, having been in the space tracking this company, we're excited about what it can do to our growth and also to do so in a way with our partner, Sixth Street that allows us to build out that marketplace. It's a really nice fit and extension into our core focus.

And our next question comes from James Yaro with Goldman Sachs.

Congrats on the deal. Could you talk a little bit about the revenue synergies with the core business from this acquisition that you foresee, I guess, on either the origination side or the buyer side, I know -- I think you touched a little bit on the latter of which -- the latter already, Michael, but just if you could expand on both.

Definitely. Thanks, James. So on the originator side, this is an asset class that many of our partners, the 380 do, but they don't use Kiavi. Kiavi is the market leader in this space with the largest market share and the post-renovation technology that allows them to be really competitive and offer both lower rates and also better offers to customers, and we saw that in the space. But what we want to do is similar to what we did in the home equity space, open that technology up to our partner base and leverage those partnerships to supercharge growth. On the investor side of the marketplace, we are using our partnership with Sixth Street, in particular, to build out that marketplace and be sure that we have the investor support for this asset. And so of course, it would have been a simpler transaction to do it bilaterally versus having a tri-party transaction, but it was very important to us to build out that capital-light marketplace day 1. And we know that there's a lot of investor demand for the space, but having Sixth Street there in the beginning is going to really help us build the marketplace and supercharge the growth as we add this product to those 380 partners.

That's very clear. As my follow-up, you've conducted your growth organically mostly thus far. Should we view this transaction as representing a shift in the way that you will allocate capital going forward with an increased focus on inorganic growth? Or was this just an opportunity you couldn't miss out on?

I'll let Mike add as well. But from my perspective, I think we're very disciplined about where we want to spend our time and our capital. We were pretty open at the time of our IPO that one of the advantages of going public is a transaction like this, and we saw that very much in our conversations with the company. I think people were excited about our access to capital, our scale. However, we are very disciplined. We've probably seen over 30, 40 transactions since going public or right before then. And this one really stood out, as I said, it was something we've tracked for a long time, and it's also something that's very much aligned with our core focus and a company that we feel we really know how to operate and enhance. Mike?

Yes. Just to build on that, I think we have a focus that -- we like to be the market leader in whatever we do. And there's a lot of opportunities that are shown our way of the #2, #3, #4 in an industry that's notoriously subscale, and we haven't moved on those. And in this situation, we get the market leader in the RTL and DSCR space. And we think we can make that model even better with what we have on the blockchain infrastructure and technology, the Sixth Street partnership and the combination of the human capital. So it was somewhat unique in that it really checked all the boxes for us. We don't see a lot of those, but we certainly have the ability when we do see those to lean in and execute.

Our next question comes from Ryan Tomasello with KBW.

You mentioned, I think, that Kiavi will initially bring over $7 billion of annual volume to Connect. So I guess first question would be, is all of that $7 billion of originations being done through Sixth Street? And what will be the approximate take rate on that volume for Figure? And then overall, Macrina, if you can just help us walk through sizing the EBITDA and EPS contribution from that initial volume uplift, just given I would assume Kiavi's financials from last year are somewhat relevant as you kind of transition the business model.

Sure. So the $7 billion or so of volume that we do anticipate from this deal, we expect this to come through democratized Prime and also Figure Connect. This is how we think about it. This is really what we are looking at historical information to be coming on board for '26 and '27 is our base foundation and assumption for this. In terms of take rate, I do want to mention there's 2 types of loans that are coming over as part of this deal. There's DSCR and also RTL. DSCR, we view similar to our first lien HELOC. And so the take rate would be similar to where Figure is today. It's how we think about it. RTL loans is shorter duration and will have a lower take rate. However, I do want to add to that, that RTL borrowers are recurring on Kiavi's platform, and we do expect the revenue volume to continue post merger. What that means is these are shorter-term recurring customers that come back to the platform. And so we think that's going to be additive to our overall revenue contribution margin and adjusted EBITDA, which is why we think we're going to be quite strong in terms of the medium-term goal of 60% adjusted EBITDA margin. But I do want to make sure you do hear from us. And we do expect a high contribution margin coming out of these types of loans that we add is how we think about it. In terms of EBITDA and EPS, there's going to be some transaction-related fees. And so we do think the EPS benefit will come through in 2027 rather than in 2026. In terms of adjusted EBITDA, because we're going to be capital-light, the interest income and interest expense elements would start to dissipate as Kiavi onboards onto our platform. But in return, we really think that the ecosystem fees and the volume that's generated on Connect is going to be immediately accretive to what we do as a company.

Great. And then for the volume that will be sold through Figure Connect, how confident are you that there's enough liquidity with the investors in that marketplace to absorb a significant uptick in this new RTL product? And will that require any effort with Figures securitization shelf to add residential transition loans to that program, assuming that the shelf will also be used as part of the Connect marketplace for RTL?

Two benefits to the transaction here. One is that Sixth Street has committed to buying a large portion of the assets that Kiavi originates for a period of time that extends over a year. So as I mentioned earlier, it was very purposeful to kind of -- if you think about how we build out marketplaces in the past, we usually secure one side of that and then focus on the other. And so here, we believe the funding side is spoken for and our focus will be on supercharging growth. Also, Kiavi has a market-leading securitization shelf, which we will be inheriting. And that is a big part of the bigger Connect and capital markets approach that we're taking to this asset class.

And our next question will come from Rob Wildhack with Autonomous Research.

I wanted to ask about the $200 billion TAM that you cited. Could you break that apart a bit? I'm wondering who are kind of the legacy originators? Is it mostly from banks or nonbanks? Any growth or how much that has grown in the past few years? And is there any number or overlap between like the $200 billion there and an annual home equity or mortgage origination number? Any color you could add there would be really helpful.

Sure. So in general, this is a nonbank market. And it's a market that also, which I think is a really important dynamic, has a fair amount of nonconsumption at least for loans, meaning that a lot of the transactions are actually not financed, fix and flip transactions. And so one of the big upsides to the transaction is that currently, home loan transaction activity is relatively muted. And if that were to change, there would be significant upside, although we have not modeled any upside to that activity in our projections or in the 4-year unlevered payback that we shared less than 4 years. The TAM is largely mom-and-pop-ish investors that use the financing to do loans in a fix and flip style. And then often, those loans are actually refinanced into DSCR loans. So in a way, you can double dip. And if you do the residential transition loan well, you have the right to get the DSCR loan, and we see that as a huge part of the opportunity here. Another related point that I'd make, Rob, is that we have the purchase technology with Kiavi. So one of the things that we don't have and one of the reasons why we're excited about the TAM is that today, Figure does not have a product that focuses on purchase loans, whereas Kiavi does have that technology. So we see that as another expansion into the $200 billion TAM that we mentioned.

And then just on their $250 million in revenue that was cited, can you talk a little bit about how that's split by revenue line? It sounds like they have some loans. So I guess how much of the $250 million is interest income? -- how much comes from gain on sale and how much comes from maybe like a figure equivalent ecosystem or tech fee? Just trying to get a sense of where the legacy Kiavi model earns its revenue.

I can start and have Macrina share more details. But the -- one of the advantages of the way that we've structured this transaction is that the legacy approach, as Macrina was mentioning, won't be the way that the financials present when the company comes to Figure because we've been very specific to start the marketplace model day 1. So you'll see in some ways, a reduction, as Macrina mentioned, of interest income and interest expense, but then more of those ecosystem fees that you see in the figure P&L because we're starting the marketplace day 1, but I'll let you add, Macrina.

That's right, Michael. And so even if the the geography of where the P&L lands at the end of the day, Rob, how we think about it is because of the benefit of ecosystem fees that are coming through with less expenses that are coming through, it's ultimately going to be more beneficial in terms of adjusted EBITDA margin. We do think we can capture quite some take rate and revenue coming through from the $7 billion of volume that I talked about earlier. And then in our model, as Michael alluded to, we're not really thinking about or adding to the 4-year payback in terms of additional synergies that may come from our partners is how we think about it. And so day 1, you'll see some of the interest income and interest expense coming from DSCR because we are adding that to our portfolio, but the vast majority is coming from the RTL portfolio, which is going to be additive to ecosystem.

[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from Patrick Moley with Piper Sandler.

Quick one for me. So on the $35 million of cost synergies that you said you expect to receive or generate in 24 months, how much of that is coming from technology consolidation versus headcount, et cetera? And then could you maybe just talk a little bit more about what the technology uplift is going to look like? I know you talked about you're going to have to modify the origination technology. So any color on kind of the time line there and maybe some initial upfront investments that might be required? Anything there would be helpful.

Okay. I can start on the technology side and then have Macrina cover more details on the synergies if that works. From a technology perspective, I shared in my prepared remarks that we're going to be putting these loans on DART. And what that will do is we'll start to ensure we get the benefits of reduction in post-closing costs as well as the reduction in fraud, which is actually the way -- the #1 way investors have lost money in the capital markets in the past couple of years. And so we see that ultimately, day 1, this is going to be a tokenized marketplace that starts to benefit not only from this reduction in fraud, but also the third-party diligence costs that we often cite, right? Today, the loan file review costs that Kiavi incurs are significant. And in general, we see about a 3x Kiavi cost to originate versus Figure today, and we do expect a lot of the technology changes that we bring, which are mainly capital markets oriented and reduce a lot of the friction in loan sales to be a big part of that reduction, and that's included in that $35 million. I'll let Macrina share more details about the makeup of that though.

Sure. So Patrick, you're very familiar with who we are as a company and where our cost to originate loans come from. And we have been very upfront about the fact that origination and processing costs on Figure's expenses are variable costs. And as we continue to adopt AI as part of our process, we have been able to show that year-over-year, our cost per loan has been coming down, and it's already below $1,000 -- and when we look at Kiavi, we also saw that benefit of the technology that we could improve as part of adding it to our blockchain rails in addition to some of the additional AI processes that we can add as part of the synergies. And so we will be continuing to optimize on processes and vendor costs and using technology primarily similar to the figure model going forward. And that's where we expect a lot of the $35 million to come from.

Our next question comes from Kyle Peterson with Needham.

I wanted to start off on the growth rates that has. I know the revenue model and such is going to change post close, but obviously, a good kind of growth rate and scale there. But I want to see if you guys could add any insights on what the gating factors of their growth have been. Obviously, you guys are growing quite a bit faster. So I just want to see if there's some potential upside if some of these gates are lifted, whether it's tech or funding or scale or kind of any thoughts there would be super helpful.

It's a great question, and it's a perfect fit to why we think our platform supercharges their growth. If you speak to the Kiavi leadership, you'd hear an interest for them in expanding the partner channel, expanding the broker channel, which is exactly the area that we excel in. And that's been a big part of their focus and where we think we know that almost besides Kiavi, almost all of the origination that happens in that market is through the broker channel or third parties. And so we're kind of taking the market leader in the space and bringing that technology to all these other parties, which is the exact thing we did in home equity. So for us, it's a very natural transition, and we have these relationships. On the DSCR side, that's also been an extremely fast-growing area. And there's a big opportunity to recapture more of the RTL business with the DSCR. And when you turn over the economics to the originators like we've done in Figure Connect, as we've seen, we supercharge growth because people are incented to do more. So there's a big tie-in there. And then lastly, Kiavi also has some new business that's been growing really rapidly in kind of infill construction, which just gets to the broader investor-oriented loan space, which has just been a really fast-growing area. As I mentioned in my prepared remarks, there's kind of a structural demand for housing and a huge opportunity as people age and as the housing infrastructure ages. So this is a really fast-growing space, and we think by linking our partnership model and our existing partnership base with it, we will supercharge to growth.

Got it. That's really helpful. And then maybe a follow-up. Obviously, they're fairly seasoned in the capital markets as well. So I just want to see if you guys had any color in terms of whether it's overlap in kind of capital markets investors that's already there or -- are there some potential new investors that -- credit investors that they have that could be good kind of cross-pollination candidates for other assets on the Figure platform? Any color there, potential cross benefits to you guys would be really helpful on that side.

Absolutely. They will bring in new investors to the marketplace. As we mentioned earlier in the Q&A, they have their own securitization shelf that has a lot of investor support. And then you have Sixth Street as a clear crossover between the existing Figure investor loan investors as well as their investors. Sixth Street is already an investor in Kiavi's assets. So it was a really nice bridge. And we know that there's, in general, a lot of investor demand for these loans because they are backed by a house, which is very similar to the figure marketplace. They are relatively high rate and they're relatively short term. which also connects to democratized Prime, as we shared because as we talked about, loans often are financed on democratized Prime and then they are sold permanently on Figure Connect. So this really is a perfect fit. And as Mike was kind of sharing as we thought about capital allocation, there really wasn't an opportunity that fits so perfectly that we've seen in, call it, the last 24 months.

Our next question will come from Randy Binner with Texas Capital.

Apologies if I missed this, but have you broken out the RTL versus DSCR size or components of the Kiavi platform? I'm just -- I'm thinking of it more from just like a modeling perspective for some of the answers before, but is there -- it seems like they're heavier on RTL, but have you broken out that percentage breakdown of their book?

We haven't put it in the deck, but I'm happy to address it here on the call, Randy. It's about 85% plus RTL volume. The rest really comes from DSCR and a very small piece on construction, but we are really looking primarily on the RTL and DSCR side.

Okay. And then just a follow-up on the -- just the net gain on sale component of their book that I heard the answer before that -- I think I heard that their DSCR product will have more of that as RTL transitions to Connect. Is that kind of breaking out that percentage-wise in the model? Is that the right way to think of how the net gain on sale line would increase for Figure?

I didn't quite catch your point...

I was surely worried. I'm kind of doing this real time. I guess what I'm trying to get to is how we should think about increasing the net gain on sale line item for Figure relative to this and weighting that kind of like 80-20, weighting that with just more with the DSCR component than the RTL component.

Got it. Got it. Okay. So we really think about the benefit of this transaction as being capital-light -- interest income and interest expense will not be showing up on Figure's P&L in relation to RTL. The primary revenue line that you're going to see is really going to be from ecosystem fees, which is representative of what we do on Figure Connect and democratized Prime. From a DSCR perspective, to the extent that Figure is the primary originator, in the future, we do expect to add on additional partners. So this will also move to Figure Connect as well. For the portion that stays with Figure, we do anticipate some level of interest income and interest expense in line with the ratios that I mentioned before. And also, there's going to be some gain on sale, as you mentioned, but it's not going to be a huge add to where we are at Figure today because the volume that's coming on from DSCR is smaller as part of the overall deal.

At this time, there are no further questions in queue. This concludes today's Figure Technology Solutions Investor Conference Call. Please disconnect your line at this time, and have a wonderful day.