Kilburn Engineering Limited ($522101)

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Kilburn Engineering Limited Q4 FY '26 and FY '26 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Navin Agrawal, Head, Institutional Equities at SKP Securities Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. It's my pleasure to welcome you to this financial results conference call on behalf of Kilburn Engineering and SKP Securities. We have with us Mr. Ranjit Lala, Managing Director; Mr. Amritanshu Khaitan, Director; Mr. Sachin Vijayakar, Chief Financial Officer; Mr. K. Vijaysanker Kartha, Managing Director, M.E. Energy Private Limited; and Mr. Amol Monga, Whole-Time Director, Monga Strayfield Limited. We'll have the opening remarks from Mr. Ranjit Lala, followed by a Q&A session. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Lala.

Yes. Thank you, Navin. Good afternoon, everybody. We welcome you all to the Q4 2026 and the financial year 2026 earnings call and updates on the company and its subsidiaries. Kilburn and its subsidiaries continue to deliver yet another consistent quarterly performance and for the year 2026. A brief of Q4 and the financial year results are as follows: Kilburn had a top line of INR 134 crores for the quarter Q4 with an operating EBITDA of 25.1%. For the financial year, the top line was INR 448 crores with EBITDA of 25.9%. On a consol basis, we achieved a top line of INR 189 crores and EBITDA of 22.95% for Q4 and INR 629 crores with EBITDA of 25.13% for the whole year. At the group level, we ended Q4 with an order backlog of INR 467 crores. We continue to have a strong inquiry pipeline of INR 4,000 crores-plus at a consol level across various sectors. And for the coming year, for the current financial year, we are targeting an order intake of around INR 800 crores to INR 1,000 crores at group level. We have set a growth target of 20% to 25% on top line over last year, which would result in a revenue of around INR 750 crores to INR 800 crores. We hope to continue EBITDA margins of 20%-plus. Furthermore, the expansion of the Kilburn factory at Saravali and Phase 2 expansion of M.E. Energy at Pune are both expected to be completed by end of Q2. Whilst we have set aspirations both in terms of numbers and on completion of expansion plans, the risk due to geopolitical challenges continue, which do impact the order intake timeliness. We have witnessed a shift by a quarter in closing some of our major orders the orders which were expected to close in Q4 last year are now expected to close in the next 2 to 3 months. However, overall, we we are very positive about the overall business scenario. With this, I would hand over back to Navin. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] First question is from the line of from [indiscernible] Financial Advisory.

Yes. Congrats on on good set of numbers. So my first question is that for this financial year, if you look, our trade receivables have almost gone up by INR 100 crores and if you look at a stand-alone basis, our revenue increased by INR 113 crores and have gone up by almost INR 100 crores, so which is also like leading to a negative cash flow. And also our cash flow in went from INR 9 crores to INR 17 crores. So going ahead, how do we see from operations like when the cash flow will be positive?

See, this cash flow -- negative cash flow is on a result of an increase in our debtors level. Because in the last quarter, we have nearly INR 130 crores of actual dispatches have happened against only INR 50 crores to INR 60 crores in the previous year. So this particular -- this debtors realizations will start flowing in from June. So this will definitely bring down the -- reduce the debtors and increase our cash flow. But on a consol basis, you will see we have a positive cash flow from operations.

Okay. And the next question is related to the working capital days. So in this FY '26, our working capital days went from INR 169 crores to INR 180 crores So what will be the trend going ahead? Like will the working capital base reduced or will it be at these levels always?

It will reduce, but not drastically because at this time also, it is high because as I told you, it is because of the debtors, increase in the debtors. Number of these debtors are increased because of the last movement dispatches, heavy dispatches during the last 2 months of the year.

[indiscernible]

Yes, yes.

And sir, 1 last question. This -- if you talk about this sort of past few quarters, our cost -- material costs have been increasing quarter-on-quarter, so any comment on that?

That depends on the type of order jobs we execute. So it depends on the particular equipment we are manufactured and material of construction use in that. So keep on varying. But overall, mix, we try to maintain the EBITDA margins based on all the orders we're executing.

If I can add, if you see material cost could go up also due to the steel prices now going up. But as we have mentioned in the past, normally, we book our material immediately once we get the order. So you may see absolute material costs going up, but then that will also result in the prices of our product going up and thereby the turnover increasing. So as long our overall EBITDA margins remain at the guided range of 22%, 23%, we are very comfortable in the current scenario.

Just 1 more point to add to -- this, Vijay Kartha here, is that as we are moving to EPC jobs, a lot of turnover comes from site execution work like services. So there -- that also impacts the material cost. So on a mix basis, is what you see. Overall, the effect is made the same and we maintain the EBITDA.

Okay. Okay. sir, going ahead in 1 or 2 quarters, will that trade receivables like reduce or be at the same level? If you could share some insight on that?

No, they will reduce because as I told you the end of the year included some large orders like the Moroccan order, is nearly 50% to 60% receivable in the next 2 to 3 months. So as that amount is received, this will definitely come down.

Okay. Okay. And sir, 1 order of was on hold. So has it been delivered or...

[indiscernible] can you speak a little louder, please?

Yes. One order of Granules India was on hold, so has it been delivered or is it still in the pipeline?

It is still at the same level, status quo.

Next question is from the line of [indiscernible] Advisors.

First of all, congratulations for a good set of numbers. My first question was actually with respect to these numbers, one thing which I couldn't understand was that in the last year, operating leverage does not seem to have played out. So could you just explain to me why that is so? And can we look forward to operating leverage kind of playing out in the subsequent year? That was my first question.

Can you kindly repeat your question?

I think, Ranjit, I will take that. I think you're asking about operating leverage, right?

Right. That's right. Yes.

So operating leverage and economies of scale has already played out. The company, if you see, the last 3, 4 years have grown from INR 100 crores to INR 200 crores revenue company now to INR 600 crores. Now that leverage is already playing out and you see our employee cost as a share of total revenue coming down, you'll see that the growth is coming through different segments, including our subsidiaries. But also, it's also to do with product mix. So there are times when you have certain jobs which are higher margin, there are times when there are certain job being executed, which are slightly lower margin. So economies of scale has already been achieved by the company, the leverage has already been achieved, and that's why we are stable at 25-odd percent EBITDA margin. It's not that from 25%, we can jump to 30% or 35%. That will not happen because we are also building the company for the future, there's investments being made in people, in talent, in infrastructure, which is to take this company to a INR 1,000 crore level in 2 years' time. For example, in this year, we've taken a write-off of INR 2 crores, INR 3 crores in our operating expenses for breaking the building -- the office building where our factory was where the new bay will come up. So all these also come into expenses.

Yes. I was wondering as to why has PAT growth not been as fast as revenue growth. That are there some exceptional items are the ones that you mentioned or exceptional tax base, et cetera...

Because last year, we were not on full tax. We are on full tax from this year carryforward lasers earlier.

So my second part of the question is that can we look forward to these things kind of smoothing out in the next year and therefore, operating leverage playing out more fully on the course of the next 12 months?

So what I'm trying to explain to you is that we are already enjoying operating leverage. As we are being able to maintain a 25% EBITDA margin and grow the company at a 20%, 25% rate this year, which is the organic part, then the Monga Strayfield acquisition brought in the inorganic path. So we have already enjoyed this operating leverage. And if the company continues to grow, net of investments, we should be able to maintain a profitable growth going forward. But obviously, this will depend also on the product mix and the type of orders we receive.

My second question was relating to the Westasian crisis, the Iranian crisis. Are there any implications now from the demand side? And secondly, from the cost side on the supply chain side. Could you just elaborate on...

Yes. So regarding the order pipeline, we do have 2, 3 orders, which Mr. Lala also mentioned, which was supposed to be finalized by March but we expect that to be finalized now in the next 2, 3 months. This got delayed due to the current Middle East crisis. Beyond that, in Monga Strayfield, Amol is on the line a lot of equipments were ready for dispatch, which could not be dispatched again due to this problem which has happened globally. That impacted our revenue a bit in Q4 for the subsidiary, which hopefully will also get mitigated by second quarter of this year. Regarding cost inflation, I think, as we mentioned in the past, you will have cost inflation, whether due to the war or otherwise with metal prices going up. And as a company, we follow the policy of booking our material as and when we book our orders, so that helps us protect our margins. Amol, if you want to highlight the impact of the West Asia crisis on our dispatches in Q4, if you can just give some highlights on that?

Yes. Hello, this is Amol. Just to add to the crisis had an impact in terms of logistics, namely, where a bunch of our orders which are slated for the U.S. where starting with the gas availability crisis, it slowed our ability to produce the required products at the usual pace, where we had to make arrangements for alternative fuels when industrial gas was not easily available. So that had an impact on the time line.

And we got over that and we got the product ready, international shipping routes are now quite blocked and it takes a long -- much longer time to arrange shipping from Mumbai Seaport to other parts of the world. While business hasn't stopped, it has definitely increased the lead times for arranging containers and for organizing so we've had situations over last to 3 months where we had to store a lot of goods, it's waiting for the logistic teams to be able to organize that response. So that impact has been there. Not in terms of ability to produce but more an ability to book the order and send it out to the

Next question is from the line of [ Sagar Shah ] from [ Spark Capital Advisors ].

First of all, congratulations to the entire team of Kilburn for another great set of numbers, actually. So now, sir, my first question was related to our -- I wanted some outlook related to our inquiry pipeline. We have a closing order book of around INR 467 crores. But what is the required pipeline in these kind of circumstances right now? So means, we have some exposure to the Middle East, so basically, how is the -- first of all, you used to disclose on the investor presentation that you have around INR 3,000 crores worth of inquiry pipeline, INR 4,000 crores worth of inquiry pipeline. So I wanted to understand what is the inquiry pipeline and how is the demand outlook and then have some data-keeping questions.

Right. So we still have a good inquiry pipeline for INR 4,000-odd crores, and it is quite diversified. Like we have inquiries from the fertilizer vertical, some from the nuclear, then sludge processing, petrochemicals, offshore gas vapor recovery units. So we have a very diversified pipeline. As I mentioned, we are targeting an order intake of around INR 800 crores to INR 1,000 crore in the current financial year. And I would expect that the way discussions are on with the customers, by end of quarter 2, we should have closed at least half of these orders, let's say INR 450 crores to INR 500 crores. So that's what keeps us confident. We also have a few inquiries from abroad, a couple of them from the Middle East and some from the Far East. We are just waiting for the right time to arrive and when we can close them.

Okay. Sure, sir. So...

what Ranjit mentioned was a lot to do with Kilburn. If you look at our subsidiaries, M.E. Energy has seen a lot of strong inquiries from the ferrous alloy sector and the steel sector. And in Monga Strayfield, we are seeing inquiries coming in from defrosting as well as textile and food processing. So we are catering to a multi-facet industries. So as and when these inquiries fortify it should add to the order book. And for M.E. Energy, the other critical sector is cement, which is what they are working on for hopefully in the kicking in in the cement space as well. So as they get more established in the sector, the inquiry pipeline automatically gets increased.

Okay. Fine, sir. So basically related to that question, if we split your existing capacities right from Kilburn on Saravali plant, than your plant, then your M.E. Energy Phase I, Phase II is your CapEx is yet to commence and Monga Strayfield. So individually, can you sum up that, if you clock around INR 800 crores to INR 1,000 crores of revenue that we are targeting? So can we without even any CapEx requirements, are we in a position to grow revenues with these existing capacity, sir?

Sir, we have already announced certain CapEx program, which is under implementation. We believe this will be completed by September-October of this year. With that, MX program being completed, our capacities will be adequate to cater the growth which the company has planned by FY '28.

Okay. Okay. Fine, sir. So now at this time, sir, you haven't -- a few set of questions were related to data-keeping questions. This time, you haven't disclosed the order inflow. I wanted individually based on Kilburn, Monga and M.E. Energy, actually. You have an order flow of around...

We are not giving that breakup because we have mentioned in the past as well that there are many orders which get booked in Monga, in M.E. Energy or Kilburn, but the plans of each companies are being utilized. So we are giving up a consolidated order booking. We don't want to encourage a breakup of the order book.

Okay.

Because you have to treat these 100% subsidiaries like individual factories as well at times when if Monga Strayfield -- if M.E. Energy gets an order, but Kilburn needs to execute it in the Ambernath plant, we will do that.

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of [indiscernible] Advisors.

So I just wanted to check about your growth guidance. Obviously, there was a very strong growth in '26 because there was also inorganic growth included. Now when I'm looking at your earnings slide you've guided for 25% to 30% from FY '27 onwards. And I remember from the previous discussions also with the guidance was in the range of 25% to 30%, which you are now lowered to 20% to 25%. So is there any specific reason why you've turned the little cautious of the growth? That's one. The second question I have is that in terms of whatever warrant conversions, et cetera, were there, how much more dilution is remaining to be done? Is there more warrant conversion, which will happen in '27?

So we have always maintained a 20% to 25% growth strategy going forward for the next 2 years. And with that, our aim is to reach INR 1,000 crores by FY '28. We stick to that guidance. We have not changed that guidance in the current quarter, firstly. Second, the point you mentioned about warrant conversion, all warrant conversions have happened. There's no further dilution expected. All the fundraise has happened. The money is coming to the company, and it's being utilized for growth prospects of the company. So there's no more dilution.

Okay. So if you look at your Slide 32 in the same presentation, the investor presentation, you've given CARG 25% to 30%.

This is a presentation which has just been uploaded today?

Yes. Yes. Yes.

I think typo error by the IR team would have made it. Our guidance is 20% to 25%, which is also there in our press release, which was released yesterday. This is a typo error.

Okay. All right. And I know that you've been guiding that margins will be 20%-plus. Now that's a little worrying when we're currently looking at margins of 25%, right, EBITDA margin. And because if you grow about 20% to 25% and your margin slips to 20% we really looking at...

Look again, we are not guiding for 20%. We are saying 20%-plus. We have also mentioned we are looking at maintaining margins of 22%, 23% in all our commentary. It is not possible for us to predict whether we will be at 25% or 23% because you'll appreciate that any for any engineering company enjoying 20%-plus when I say 20%-plus, you look at it from 20% to 25%, this range, it is a very high margin, which the company has been able to deliver we wanted to see that buffer that we are guiding 20%-plus, but we've also mentioned that we are looking at maintaining our margins, which are there today, which is the 22%, 23%. And what happens is quarter-on-quarter, you will have variances. Like for example, the current quarter, we've had very high turnover and we've had a margin of 22%, 23%. So we can be questioned by you all that why is it that the economies of scale are not showing. But in the same quarter, we have high costs, which have come in, like the freight cost of dispatches for our large Moroccan order came in quarter 4. So again, for a project-led business, where our execution happens over 6 months to 12 months, it is not strategically fair to compare 1 quarter margin or the second quarter margin if look at an annualized trend because you will have some variances which will happen quarter-on-quarter.

Okay. Then if you look at -- if I'm looking below the EBITDA margin, has the depreciation now is it going to pick out at about let's say 116 for this 16.6 for the year...

I mean your depreciation is INR 14 crores, INR 15 crores, it may go up by another few crores as our new CapEx plans are done, but not very significant.

Okay. And in also should get more -- you should move what are you expected to move in line with turnover or it should go less than turnover?

The finance cost, I would think we should remain stable because if you're able to grow the business by another INR 150 crores, INR 200 crores and keep finance costs similar, automatically, you're actually improving your overall working capital.

Right. So for finance costs to remain stable in a growing top line scenario means you will try to bring your working capital base down?

Correct. Which Mr. Sachin mentioned earlier in the call that we have large dispatches which have happened. So payments in those dispatches should come in between June and September.

Right. No, I meant more like the average working capital through the year. I'm not talking about...

So average working capital, if you see is actually not very high. Now if you compare us to last year, our interest costs have remained more or less similar, but the turnover 50% so if you see the cash flow is better from that point of view. It is only...

But you've also...

Part of that has only gone into working capital. Most of it went into payment from Monga Strayfield.

Okay, okay. So that means that your start looking at below the EBITDA, you could see higher growth of PBT as compared to EBITDA because your depreciation should not grow at 20%, 25%...

You're right. And the other point, just to -- for the larger community here in the call, a lot of our other income is actually operating other income, which does get discounted by investors because a lot -- because all our export orders have exchange gain also which comes in, and that comes in, in other income, but it's actually operating income. So you have to take the operating income -- the other income as part of the EBITDA. About 18% of it is part of the EBITDA.

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of [ Bhavya Nahar ] from [ Mohra ] Investment Managers.

I wanted to ask, when do you expect the execution of the new pier orders, any visibility out there?

We have 2 orders which are related to that vertical. And typically, these orders move quite slow. That's a fact. So currently, I expect then that it would take another year plus for the complete execution.

Okay. And so do we think that our current order with is sufficient hence for like growth in the coming quarters or [indiscernible]

As we've mentioned in our press release also, we have an opening order book, plus we are expecting a lot of orders to get concluded in the next 2, 3 months. So with that, we are confident of achieving the guided figures which we have indicated.

Okay. And on M.E. Energy, how far are we on getting orders for the waste in the cement sector? Is it something which is already like happening, discussions are ongoing or not reached that stage yet?

So on M.E. Energy, Mr. Kartha can highlight, we are not focused only on the cement sector. We are looking at large orders for waste recovery, boiler systems in steel, in ferrous alloy. Cement is a sector where our breakthrough has been more for the hot air gas generators, where we We've got our first inquiry for recovery boiler system in cement, but that is still very early stage. But our success, I believe will be more in the ferrous alloy and sectors, where also there is a very large requirement of these systems. Vijay, if you can expand on it, please?

Yes. As Amritanshu just mentioned, we have our sight very clearly on moving into getting orders on power plants for the cement plant. So we have an inquiry, but it is very early stage, but inquiries on and the second is just around the corner. So -- and as you know, this project will take time. And we have already moved into civil industry with hot air generators with the nonconventional fuels and very successfully, and there inquires as well. And parallelly, there's a huge growth on the far role and sell industry. As you know, we already are executing in 2 large value orders. And we expect to add a couple of other sooner than later, I mean, probably this or next quarter. And I think more success and more at least financial year from [Technical Difficulty]

Sir, sorry to interrupt, we are not getting your audio.

Yes. I mentioned that for the early part of this financial year, maybe first 8, 9 months, we'll have more larger value orders from industries or steel industry rather than cement industry success will be to end of the about maybe next year.

Next question is from the line of [indiscernible] from Nuvama Wealth Management.

My question is on the competitive landscape for the equipment [indiscernible] nuclear power plants. So how is the same shaping up? And how many approved vendors are there were NPC and how much time will it take us to a release qualification and approvals?

So typically, we face competition from engineering. So one of the major competitors, yes? How long it is for the approval of the old process, Kilburn has supplied components and systems in the past for the nuclear business. So we were already qualified, and we didn't have to go through this qualification again as such. In terms of landscape, definitely, there are opportunities coming up. But what is visible to us is another 2 or 3 projects, okay? One is in and the other 1 -- the 2 projects on which we are working very closely. Of course, we are not directly bidding, it is through an

Got it, sir. And sir, in a typical 800-megawatt nuclear project, what is the rupee amount of a product supply?

I would not know.

Next question is from the line of [indiscernible] from Sequent Investments.

I have 2 questions, and pardon me if my question might be repetitive. One, why has our gross margins declined in quarter 4 and is it due to product mix or is it due to increasing input cost? And my second question would be that given our revenue target of almost INR 800 crores for FY '27, our opening order book seems quite tepid. So our products are quite complicated and we have a long gestation period. So do we still -- are we still confident that we can achieve this kind of top line in FY '27?

So let me answer the second question first. Well, we have to set a target for ourselves, and we have always set high aspirations, let me put it that way. In the past also, I think when we have spoken about these numbers, whether we are growing at 30%, 35%, 50%-or-so, I think by and large, we have been able to reach those numbers. And to achieve this target of INR 750 crores to INR 800 crores, the growth that we are talking about of 20% to 25% CAGR, we are working on the order intake. I do agree with you that today the opening order is on the lower side compared to last year. But as I said, we -- some of the orders have got delayed by a quarter. Once they are increased, we should be able to achieve. In case there's any deviation on I'm sure by next quarter, we will report back. On the...

Just to add, we are guiding for a range of 20% to 25%. So that gives us a range of INR 750 crores to INR 800 crores for the current fiscal. We have already indicated that we expect the second half of the year to carry a lot more of the weight of execution, assuming that a lot of orders will be finalized in the next 30 to 60 days.

Fair, sir. That's helpful. And on my first question?

As regards gross margin, definitely, as Mr. earlier said is on product mix. Also, the type of order we are exhibiting. Now this quarter, orders which have a component of some contract outside subcontract that was involved. So that is the reason. So it depends on order to order and type of equipment we are manufacturing.

Right. But for a full year perspective, 22 to 23 margins is something that is sustainable for us, right?

That is correct.

Next question is from the line of [ Sanjay Shah ], individual investor.

Okay. I just wanted to get a sense, beyond the next 1 year or 2 years for which you've given a guidance, how company and how does the management think about the company, let's say, 4 to 5 years' time in terms of size or complexity, in terms of contribution from domestic, market [indiscernible] just wanted to see how you think about the company in 4 or 5 years' time in terms of size and in terms of complexity of the that you do or in terms of the international to the domestic mix or in terms of exposure to different sectors?

So if I can take that question, Ranjit. Kilburn 4 years ago was the INR 100-crore revenue company, making INR 10 crores of EBITDA. From there, we have scaled up to INR 650-odd crores this year with an EBITDA of INR 160 crores. The EBITDA of INR 160 crores is higher than what the revenue of this company was 4 years ago. So we do not believe in looking at 5-year plans and 10-year plans and working on those kind of numbers because I think you can limit yourself in growth sitting where you are today. As a strategy, we are very focused on achieving road map goal for the next 2 years. We believe we're able to achieve what we've set out for the next 2 years, a lot of opportunity would come with the scale of the company increasing the market cap increasing, cash flow increasing, there can be opportunities to grow the company more rapidly. So it's more prudent for us to focus over the next 2 years and then see where we can take the company from there.

Understood. sectors that you're exposed to changing or the domestic to international mix changing very significantly?

We believe exports will play a critical role going into the future, and we think 30% to 40% of our revenue can come from exports.

Got it. And 1 last question, if I may. In terms of exports, when you say, are there any particular markets that you would be more excited about?

It is spread across continents. I think there's business opportunities which are there in the U.S., in Europe, in Far East, Korea, Africa. So -- I mean, we're not bound by any 1 particular geography.

Next question is from the line of [indiscernible] Capital.

Sir, it's [indiscernible] but my question has already been answered.

Next question is from the line of [indiscernible] Nirmal Bang.

Sir, a couple of questions. What is that...

[ Ravinder ], can you speak...

Okay. So A couple of questions regarding you mentioned that -- we have based some orders in '26 in Q4, can you please quantify that order? What is the order we have missed?

We've not missed orders. We have just mentioned that certain orders getting finalized have got shifted into Q1 of this year in Q2, we expect things to get finalized in the next 2, 3 months.

So can you please quantify that I'm just asking that.

As we mentioned, we are looking at booking between INR 500 crores to INR 600 crores of orders by September. So part of this would have come in before March, it's now going to come in, in the current financial year.

Okay. Okay. So whether we face any because the order finalizing execution delivers there because in FY '26 in Q4 of this year?

We've had some dispatch related delays in Monga Strayfield, which was mentioned earlier in the call due to logistics of the Middle East war.

Okay. Okay. And sir, the working capital actually increased substantially in this year. So can you please tell me or give some color on this, how the -- which are the sectors we faced a delay in payments in FY '26? So that -- and how do we expect these sectors to be in FY '27?

So working capital, if you see our interest cost has remained more or less stable. So our absolute borrowing has actually been stable. There have been dispatches, which have happened, as we've mentioned in the last -- in this quarter, the money will be realized from the customers in the next 3, 4 months. So we believe that the working capital cycle will again normalize as collections come in.

And the payment terms there is no delay as such.

Okay. I'm just getting some color which are the sectors are taking some sort of stress in terms of payments. That is not my whole...

We are not facing any stress for any sector. Most of our dealings are in the private sector, we are not facing any payment delays from them.

Okay. Okay. Okay. And sir, you mentioned that you are expecting INR 800 crores of order inflow in this year. So can you please give us any currently sector-wise breakup? And also if the subsidiary-wise breakup, we can give that would helpful.

We are not -- sir, we cannot give such detailed breakup. It is a dynamic industry where we are serving over 10, 12 industries. We have INR 4,000-crore pipeline. Depends on which orders materialize, we believe we should be able to book INR 800 crores to INR 1,000 crores of orders. The main sectors everyone knows is nuclear, steel, oil and gas, petrochem. So it's a range of -- fertilizer. So there are all of them. There's not 1 sector.

Okay. sector a little bit in a positive in terms of growth this year. So that's why I'm asking.

As we mentioned, we are positive on multiple sectors. I think the only sector where we are seeing relatively low CapEx is soda ash which is 1 out of our 14, 15 factors we are catering to.

Okay. Okay. Lastly, the CapEx for this year?

It remains the same what we've been guiding for the last 2, 3 calls, which is around INR 40-odd crores.

Okay. Okay. It is largely in the -- across the subsidiaries in standalone entity.

Correct.

Next question is from the line of [ Sagar Shah ] from [indiscernible] Advisors.

Now sir -- now my first suggestion to you, sir, will be that you please disclose the investor presentation a little early so that we can have a glance through in a little more detail actually to just dispose 10 minutes before the call actually. So that is my -- just my first suggestion to you. Now sir, my overall, I have around 2 questions, actually. Now you already alluded to the change in the EBITDA margin actually that was just -- I can see this as well just because of the gross margin, actually, that is why EBITDA margins looked diluted in this quarter. But for the overall picture, when we see, overall in FY '27 and FY '28, something like as the steel prices have normalized now now, do we see the EBITDA margins again clawing back to around 23%, 25% considering we are such a has the auto pipeline, considering the -- you have an easy pass-through of the cost also? That is my first question.

Again, I've raised this earlier in the call, please add the other income into the EBITDA margins because a large part of the other income is operating in nature because you had large export orders, we've gained foreign currency in those orders, which actually is part of revenue. So if you see our margin even in this quarter has been relatively stable at about 23-odd percent, and if you take at a consolidated level also, you are looking at the full year being 25%.

One more point which I want to add is, you mentioned about pass-through in the cost. Our cost -- not pass through, okay? We mitigate all the risks we are placing orders on time. And there can be some surprises from time to time, which we have also said in the past, which may impact the bottom line at times, okay? So we don't have a pass-through. And on the EBITDA margins, we have always said that, yes, particularly, I've been saying it's 20-plus because -- yes, I have been extra cautious. Normally, we are targeting 20% to 23%. But we're expecting that every year, we would be in the range of 25% or something, I think that may not be possible. But be assured that we are always working on maximizing the important clients.

Yes, certainly, sir. And just these EBITDA margins that you're clocking are one of the best in the industry by no means, actually. But my second question, when you are guiding for INR 750 crores to INR 800 crores of order intake for this year and that...

Order intake is INR 800 crores to INR 1,000 crores, I said.

Okay, okay. So INR 800 crores to INR 1,000 crores for the year. So when we talk of such healthy order intake, so actually, you already guided that which sectors actually are you targeting. But what kind of product profile actually that we are getting orders for, that you can say and highlight, is it for [indiscernible]

So we are talking about the fertilizer vertical where we need a lot of dryers, then we talk about offshore gas wafer recovery units, they have for wafer recovery from the raw gas. Then we talk about petrochemicals, we talk about the VSPs and the FPDs. And then we talk about sludge processing. We're talking about panel dryers. So each of these verticals has a requirement for different kind of dryers or a combination of these. Apart from this, we also supply the balance of plant, which goes with these buyers.

and then you have the waste recovery system for any energy, which is ferrous alloys as well as the steel space. And then you have the hot air gas generators for cement, which M.E. Energy provides. And then your have the RF drag and sheet metal fabrication for Monga.

Yes. And in the past also, the Monga Strayfield products were more entrenched into textiles. And now we have very worked on getting inquiries from reprocessing from pulses from many other verticals we have been developing products. So that's an ongoing process.

Okay. And is it safe to assume, sir, that in FY '28, post the CapEx that we'll be doing, when it will be commissioned in Q2 and Q3 FY '27, we'll have even larger capacity to pay orders in case of M.E. as well as Kilburn, and we can expect even more order intake actually in FY '28, is it safe to assume?

Well, I think order intake and execution are 2 different aspects of business. With the current expansion, we will definitely be able to do INR 800 crores comfortably with both these expansions. On the order intake side, there are many other factors like you saw a little bit of delay in order intake because of the geopolitical situation. I think we should give these 2 things separately. If you talk about in either situation, yes, we would like to take in orders of INR 1,000 crores and execute the same thing in 1 year.

Okay. Fine, sir. That's my point.

[indiscernible] are in place, and we have to respect all those dynamics.

Yes, sure, sir. I'll maybe connect you post the results.

Sure.

Next question is from the line of [indiscernible] from Spark PMS.

I just want to just clear on the margin front. So the EBITDA margin guidance that you are guiding for FY '27 would be 22% to 23% this is including the other income side?

That's right.

Next question is from the line of [indiscernible] Ventures.

Yes. So actually, with regards to the order, which was not being executed or it has been diluted. So is my understanding correct that there are around 2, 3 orders that was supposed to be executed on Q4, but now it has been linked to Q1?

Are you referring to the Granules order?

Yes, sir.

Sorry, I mean can you repeat your question, please?

Yes. What I'm trying to say that because of the current Iran issue, in the call, you said that there was some delay in the order execution or rather...

Order intake. There was a delay in the order intake.

No, there has been delay in order intake at overall level, and there has been some execution delay in 1 of our subsidiaries, which is Monga Strayfield that will get evened out by set the first half of this year.

We expect that to be evened out by first half of this year.

Okay. Okay. Okay. And one thing I just wanted to understand, I'm sorry, it's a very basic question. But what I'm trying to understand is that Monga Strayfield business is not so much similar to M.E. and Kilburn, right, if I'm not mistaken?

Monga Strayfield business is similar to Kilburn from the point of view that the product they make is for drying solutions, though the type of product they make is very different to what Kilburn makes.

Okay. So per se, like is it possible to give Monga's order book?

We do not disclose separate order books, but typically, Monga Strayfield had a short order cycle where they normally deliver in 3 months' time, their equipment. So it's more like a running business.

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Abhijit Mitra from Aionios Alpha.

Just if you can share the average ticket size of orders that you're expecting when you are guiding for INR 800 crores to INR 1,000 crores of order inflows in FY '27?

Yes, I'll answer that. So it can -- I will exclude the key dryers, which are typically in the range of INR 40 lakhs to INR 50 lakhs, so I'll exclude them. But anything between INR 2 crores to INR 5 crores for the smaller machines, we have some inquiries for around INR 40-odd crores and even a project of INR 100-plus crores. So that's the kind of range.

And in M.E. Energy, we are even quoting for jobs which are over INR 300 crores.

Next follow-up question is from the line of [indiscernible] from Nirman Bang.

Sir, regarding Monga Strayfield, is it possible to give a bifurcation, what is the revenue from the sheet metal and dryer side?

Amol, can you take that?

See, we do not generally give a breakup of our subsidiary revenue, but if you take from a range point of view, RF dryers would be about 50%, sheet metal would be 50%.

[Operator Instructions] As there are no further questions, I'll now hand the conference over to Mr. Ranjit Lala for closing comments.

Yes. Thank you. First of all, thanks to all of you for participating in this call. I would like to just summarize that many of you have some concerns, I understand, that's what I would guess from this call. Well, geopolitical situations will always pose some kind of a risk, but I can assure you that we are very much on top of it. We are trying to work on closing as many orders as possible. And overall, as a team, we are very positive. I'm sure when -- as and when there are some developments or any changes happening, we will keep all of you posted. And I look forward to getting in touch with all of you in the next quarter. Meanwhile, all of you also requested or welcome to visit our factory and meet us one-on-one, and we can take questions. That's all from my side. Thank you so much.

Thank you very much. On behalf of SKP Securities Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.