KMD Brands Limited (KMD) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us for today's presentation of KMD Brands' Financial Results for the First Half of the 2025 financial year. My name is Michael Daly, and I'm the CEO of the group. I'm joined on the call by Ben Washington, our Interim Group Chief Financial Officer. We will be talking through the presentation lods on the NZX and ASX this morning. Unless otherwise specified, all financial numbers are in New Zealand dollars. Today, we'll begin with a summary of the key first-half results. We will then discuss the group's financials and Brands results. We'll conclude with a look at our focus areas, a trading update, and our outlook. I will begin with a summary of the key first-half results and an overview of our group on to Slide 4. While the profit result is not where we want it to be, we again demonstrated our ability to manage the controllables through challenging trading conditions. The gross margin was pretty resilient. Operating expenses were tightly controlled, and we reduced inventory and net working capital year-on-year. Sales were 0.5% above the first half of last year with an improving quarterly trend, especially in the direct-to-consumer channel for all 3 brands. Wholesale sales are taking longer to recover as wholesale accounts remain cautious on preseason commitments. Group online sales performance has been a highlight, with all 3 brands achieving double-digit sales growth year-on-year. We were able to hold the line on sales with resilience in gross margin. Gross margin decreased by 0.3% of sales year-on-year to 58.5% for the group despite increased promotional intensity for Kathmandu and clearance of inventory for Oboz. Operating expenses were actively managed while facing global cost pressure. We continue to invest in our brands, particularly Kathmandu's brand advertising, product innovation, and consumer experience. While we held the line on sales with improving trends, the combination of reasonably flat gross margin and global cost pressure meant the underlying EBITDA decreased to $3.9 million for the first half year. The group's net loss after tax was $20.7 million. On an underlying basis, excluding some restructuring costs plus leasing and Software-as-a-Service accounting impacts, the group's net loss was $16.1 million. In a challenging trading environment, net working capital efficiency is a key focus for the group. Pleasingly, net working capital ended $33.6 million lower than January last year with inventory reducing, a significant achievement. The group's balance sheet position is stable with $76.2 million of net debt, down $20 million from $96.2 million 1 year earlier, and with funding headroom of approximately $215 million. Moving to Slide 5. This provides a quick overview of the strengths of each of our brands. Each brand is iconic, authentic, and distinct, with highly credible and technical products and a loyal customer base. We know that now more than ever, strong brand identity is critical, and each of our brands has this. With category-leading products and strong customer bases, each brand is well-positioned for continued growth. On to Slide 6, a reminder of the global reach of our brands, an important consideration as macroeconomic conditions start to improve at different paces in key global markets. We operate over 300 owned stores, and our brands are sold in over 8,000 locations globally. Australasia is still our biggest market with over $600 million of annual sales, 80% of which is from Australia. North America generates $200 million of sales annually; Europe, $100 million; Asia, $45 million; and South America, $20 million, all on an annual basis. Moving to Slide 7 and reminding you of our strategic pillars. Our strategy remains unchanged. We continue to strengthen and grow our global brand presence. The Eddie Aikau Big Wave Invitational is Rip Curl's latest event partnership. The Eddie is an invite-only iconic Big Wave contest held in Hawaii. The event ran over the Christmas period this year with impressive streaming and social media brand exposure, especially in the key North American growth market. An exciting recent announcement is that Kathmandu is now the official apparel partner of the New Zealand team for at least the next 4 years, providing athlete apparel through the next cycle of the Winter Olympics, Commonwealth Games, Youth Olympics, and Summer Olympics. This partnership not only makes sense in terms of honoring the brand's New Zealand heritage but will also provide valuable brand exposure on the world stage. With our focus on elevating digital, we are pleased to see all 3 brands achieving double-digit sales growth year-on-year in the first half online. Group online sales performance has been a highlight, and the online channel remains a key growth priority for the group. In a challenging trading environment, net working capital efficiency is a key focus for the group, and a reduction in net working capital of $33.6 million year-on-year is a significant achievement. In terms of aligning global systems, both Oboz and the Rip Curl wetsuit factory in Thailand have been migrated to group ERP systems in the first half of this financial year. With respect to our best for people and planet initiatives, the best businesses create lasting value for people and the planet, and this belief is at the heart of everything we do at KMD Brands. We embrace responsible and sustainable business practices to deliver positive social, environmental, and financial impact. B Corp certification for our business in all 3 of our brands provides independent verification that we meet globally recognized high standards in these areas. Kathmandu's Seeker Activewear range is a recent example of our focus on innovative and sustainable materials development. The range uses carbon capture technology to capture carbon emissions from steel mills before they enter the atmosphere and uses them to make polyester fabric. I'll talk more about this later in the presentation. I will now hand over to Ben Washington to take you through the financials in detail.

Thanks, Michael. I'll now take you through the group profit and loss for the first half of FY '25. Our statutory results include the adoption of IFRS 16. For comparability, the impact of IFRS 16 has been excluded from our underlying results, as well as the amortization of Rip Curl and Oboz customer relationships and one-off restructuring costs. Total group sales for the first half were 0.5% above last year with an improving sales trend through the second quarter. Statutory EBITDA of $52.7 million for the first half of the year. On an underlying like-for-like basis, first-half EBITDA was $3.9 million, a decrease from $15.1 million last year. Cost of living pressures and geopolitical issues have had a prolonged impact on consumer sentiment globally. These factors contributed to a challenging global environment for our brands, particularly in wholesale for Rip Curl and Oboz. Our brands have responded with increased promotional intensity in the direct-to-consumer channel. Second quarter DTC sales grew year-on-year for all 3 brands, underpinned by improving Black Friday and Christmas trade and strong online sales growth. Most encouragingly, Kathmandu's quarterly sales results have now shown an improved trend for each of the last 5 quarters. Wholesale accounts remain cautious on preseason commitments in a challenging market. Forward orders and in-season buying from key accounts support an improving wholesale trend through 2025. Gross margin decreased 30 basis points below last year to 58.5%, remaining resilient despite increased promotional intensity in a challenging market over the Christmas trading period, plus specific clearance inventory for Oboz. Operating expense control, while faced with global pressures, has been a real focus for each of our brands. The group's operating expenses finished plus 4.2% higher than last year, while operating an additional 4 stores year-on-year. Within this, we continue to support brand development, in particular, Kathmandu's advertising, product innovation, and customer experience. Drawing your attention to Slide 10, we'll now look more closely at the group sales history. As you can see from the sales chart, just how strong the first half of FY '23 sales results were with all 3 brands and channels rebounding post-pandemic. While cost-of-living pressures are impacting consumer sentiment globally, the pace of recovery will vary in each of our key regions. By region, Australia made up 54% of total group sales and was the only key global region to achieve positive sales growth in the first half of the year. North America accounted for almost 20% of first half sales with Europe a further 8%. By channel, direct-to-consumer made up almost 75% of the first half sales, showing improved trends through the second quarter. Wholesale sales made up 26% of the first half sales. This channel is slower to recover. By brand, Rip Curl accounted for nearly 60% of the first half sales with improving sales year-on-year through the key Southern Hemisphere summer trading period. Now, moving to Slide 11. Rip Curl and Kathmandu achieved positive sales year-on-year in the second quarter, with Oboz improving the sales trend. For Rip Curl, the direct-to-consumer retail sales and online channels led the improving sales trend with strong sales growth across Australia as well as Europe and South America, supported by strategic new store openings. As previously mentioned, wholesale sales remain subdued. Kathmandu sales have continued to improve for each of the last 5 quarters, now showing growth year-on-year in the most recent months. In Q1 FY '25, Kathmandu was cycling specific clearance activity in August last year. If we exclude the month of August, Kathmandu sales grew 6.6% year-on-year across September and October. This was then followed by 6.9% sales growth year-on-year in the second quarter, which includes the key Black Friday and Christmas trading periods. Oboz diversified sales channels, achieving strong online sales growth in the second quarter with promotional activity driving increased traffic and transactions, particularly around Black Friday. Wholesale sales have remained subdued in the North American outdoor market. In FY '25, lower preseason orders have been partially offset by improved in-season buying from key accounts. As Michael mentioned, online sales have been a highlight. All 3 brands have achieved double-digit sales growth through online sites and marketplaces. Our omnichannel offering provides customers with the choice of in-store or online shopping. Our brands have worked hard to improve the customer experience and online journey and, as a result, have improved the conversion of traffic to transactions. Here are the key highlights from each brand. Rip Curl delivered a record $21.1 million in online sales for the first half, an increase of nearly 14% year-on-year. Online now comprises 11.5% of direct-to-consumer sales. Kathmandu delivered $20.8 million online, growing more than 26% year-on-year. Online is now 13.4% of direct-to-consumer sales. And Oboz delivered a record $5.5 million of online sales, a 32.8% increase year-on-year, with a particularly successful Black Friday Christmas promotional period. The online channel remains a key growth priority for the group. Moving to our balance sheet. We continue to remain in a strong balance sheet position with low net debt, significant funding headroom, and improving inventory levels. In a challenging trading environment, net working capital efficiency has been a key focus. Pleasingly, net working capital ended $33.6 million lower than January last year, with inventory continuing to moderate down. This is a significant achievement in a challenging market. Most importantly, inventory continues to moderate back towards historical levels with further moderation expected. At the 31st of January, inventory was nearly $10 million below January last year despite unfavorable currency impacts and more goods in transit than last year. At the 31st of January 2025, the group had a net debt position of $76.2 million, down $20 million from $96.2 million a year earlier. The group is targeting net debt below $50 million at the end of the year. Looking further ahead, our long-term leverage target remains less than 0.5x net debt to EBITDA. The group continues to have strong support from its banking syndicate. We took preemptive action to amend the January 2025 covenant measurement point and fully complied with all covenants during the period. On Slide 14, you can see that the January inventory balances are moderating back towards historical levels. In recent years, we've held inventory as wholesale accounts work to reduce their own inventory balances. We also took strategic investments in wetsuits and insulation inventory as we navigated challenging global conditions. Inventory composition continues to improve, and inventory balances are moderating back towards historical levels. On Slide 15, you can see on the chart that there was a historical reduction between January and July for both net working capital and net debt. January net working capital balances are typically higher as incoming inventory is shipped before Chinese New Year to support both Kathmandu's upcoming autumn and winter seasons and Rip Curl's Northern Hemisphere summer season. The inventory investment ahead of key trading periods for the second half results in typically higher net debt in January each year. As a result of our operating performance and challenging market conditions, the directors have not declared an interim dividend. The group dividend policy remains unchanged, with a target payout ratio of 50% to 70% of the underlying net profit after tax. Moving on to the brands. Each brand continues to operate in a challenging global market. In this environment, our brands have worked hard to control gross margins, operating costs, and working capital. Rip Curl's total sales were pretty flat, up 0.1% year-on-year for the first half. Difficult trading conditions in the broader server industry are reflected in this result and have recently led to significant changes in the competitive landscape in North America. Store closures by key competitors may cause short-term headwinds as inventory is divested in the North American market. As I showed you earlier, the sales trend has improved from minus 6.7% year-on-year during Q1 to plus 6.5% year-on-year in Q2. The direct-to-consumer channel performed comparatively well, with sales up 4.1% year-on-year for the half. We saw strong sales growth in the key Australasian summer and Christmas trading period and stronger results in Europe and South America, supported by store openings. As we mentioned earlier, online sales growth was a highlight, growing 13.9% year-on-year to $21.1 million. The wholesale channel remains subdued in a challenging market. While wholesale sales were down 7.9% year-on-year for the half, forward orders indicate an improving wholesale trend through 2025. Rip Curl's gross margin remained resilient, increasing 20 basis points year-on-year in the first half. The channel and product mix helped to offset the impact of increased promotional intensity in a tough trading environment. Operating expenses continue to be tightly managed, off facing global cost pressures and operating 8 additional stores year-on-year. Earlier this week, Ashley Reid was announced as the new Rip Curl CEO. Ashley brings 2 decades of global experience in the sportswear industry, most recently from his time as the Vice President and General Manager of Knight Pacific. He will join us in the coming months based in the Rip Curl head office in Torquay and will report directly to Brent Scrimshaw and sit on the KMD Brands global executive team. Moving to Slide 19. Kathmandu sales have increased 3% year-on-year for the first half, improving from a 2.7% decline year-on-year during Q1 to 6.9% growth year-on-year in Q2. Sales in Kathmandu's largest market, Australia, increased 3.8% year-on-year for the first half, supported by enhanced in-store execution and new products. While New Zealand sales were down 2% year-on-year for the entire half, there was strong sales growth during the key Christmas trading period. As I mentioned earlier, Kathmandu New Zealand, in particular, was a specific clearance activity in August last year. If we exclude the month of August, the New Zealand sales increased 4.8% year-on-year for the remaining 5 months of the half. The Kathmandu online digital team last year implemented a series of continuous improvements, including redesign of the eCommerce mega menu, search engine optimization, and new payment methods, all of which contributed to improved conversion and, ultimately, online sales growth of 26.6% year-on-year. Kathmandu's gross margin decreased 40 basis points year-on-year with increased promotional intensity in a competitive trading environment. Operating expenses for the first half include $3 million of incremental year-on-year spending to refresh and bring more brand advertising investment into the first half, increase product newness and innovation, and improve the customer experience. Finally, finishing up with Oboz. Total sales continued to be impacted by wholesale caution, decreasing 6.3% year-on-year. Oboz continued to benefit from our commitment to diversified sales channels with strong online sales growth. Online sales increased by 32.8% to a record $5 million for the first half, growing strongly over the Black Friday and Christmas promotions and reinforcing the opportunity for the brand. Wholesale sales were 10.6% lower year-on-year. As mentioned earlier, wholesale accounts remain cautious on preseason commitments, but we have seen recent improvement to in-season buying from key accounts. Forward orders also support an improving trend through 2025. The gross margin decreased by 570 basis points as the specific clearance of end-of-line life inventory contributed to a lower gross margin result year-on-year. The Oboz team has worked hard to return the inventories to historical levels despite the recent challenges in the North American Outdoor footwear market. It's important to note that gross margins on core styles and new launches remain in line with historical margins. Operating expenses were tightly controlled year-on-year as the North American footwear market recovers from its cyclical inventory reduction and discounting phase. We expect to leverage the operating expense investment for sustainable growth. To finish, I'd like to point out that the Kathmandu segment includes sales of Oboz products through the Kathmandu, Australia, and New Zealand store network at full vertical gross margins. These sales grew from $2.2 million in the first half of last year to $3.4 million in the first half of this year. I'll now hand you back to Michael.

Thanks, Ben. We're moving on now to the focus areas and the outlook. On Slide 22, I'll now touch on Kathmandu's progress against the focus areas that we have highlighted in the past. This slide summarizes the immediate focus areas of the Kathmandu team led by CEO Megan Welch, with the aim of exceeding the expectations of outdoor enthusiasts and ultimately returning the brand to sustainable sales and profit growth. As Ben discussed, Kathmandu invested an incremental $3 million year-on-year to bring more brand advertising investment into the first half, increase product newness and innovation, and improve the consumer experience. As these brand foundations have been put in place, we have seen Kathmandu sales trends improve through each of the last 5 quarters. In terms of product, progress is being made to diversify categories, reducing Kathmandu's reliance on outerwear by addressing customers' year-round needs. This season's introduction of activewear for the Outdoors provided balance to the range while remaining true to the brand's leadership across hiking and adventure travel. Our team continued to lead in the use of innovative materials, technology, and sustainability.  Kathmandu's refreshed brand campaign is resonating with consumers, boosting key brand health metrics in Kathmandu's largest market, Australia. We expect this to have a positive impact on building key long-term brand associations. As I mentioned earlier, Kathmandu is now the official apparel partner of the New Zealand team, providing athletes with training and village kits and uniforms for opening, closing, and podium ceremonies at next year's Winter Olympics in Milano Cortina, the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow, and the Olympic Games in Los Angeles. This partnership not only reinforces the brand's connection to its New Zealand roots but also provides an opportunity for significant brand exposure on the world stage.  In terms of consumers, Kathmandu continues to deliver progress on the overall goal to exceed the expectations of outdoor enthusiasts by delivering a premium brand and product experience in-store and online. Improvements have been made to visual merchandising. For example, fixtures and fittings have been removed to open up sight lines, elevate the brand, and showcase product stories in the store. The online team has implemented continuous improvements, including a redesign of the eCommerce mega menu, search engine optimization, and new payment methods. All of these have contributed to improvements in conversion and customer experience online, with more to come. A new digital platform with a refined design aesthetic is under development and will be launched this year. Kathmandu is also finalizing a store of the future design concept, which will start to roll out in the initial locations this calendar year.  On Slide 23, we highlight a sample of the latest innovations for our brands. Rip Curl has continued a rich history of championing surfing events with its latest partnership, the Eddie Aikau Big Wave Infotational. The Eddie is an iconic Big Wave contest held in Hawaii. The event goes ahead only when surf conditions are huge, and this year, it ran for just the 11th time in its 40-year history. Around 50,000 core fans and tourists watched the event live from the beach. In terms of reach, the event attracted 6.1 million streams and 13.6 million social media impressions. Half of the audience who consumed Eddie's content were new to Rip Curl.  Merchandise sales have also been strong, especially in the key North American growth market. Kathmandu continues to push the boundaries of sustainable product innovation with the latest Seeka Activewear range. Kathmandu is at the forefront of innovative sustainable materials technology, with this range combining 3 sustainable technologies: carbon capture, advanced recycling, and a bio-based anti-dor finish. Carbon capture is the term used to describe LanzaTech's innovative process, which captures carbon emissions from steel mills before they enter the atmosphere and uses them to make polyester fabric. The women's Seeka 4-inch shorts won Kathmandu's second ISPO award in 2024, following the win for the Featherflight carry-on earlier in the year.  Finally, to Oboz, building on the commercial success of the fast and light Cadabatic and Cadaback win styles, Oboz has launched the new Cadabatic LT, Oboz's lightest and most breathable collection to date. The Cadabatic LT, for the first time, uses GorTex's invisible fit waterproof and breathable technology. Initial digital and sales metrics for this new style are encouraging, continuing momentum in the fast and light category and lessening reliance on Oboz's core rugged category. And finally, as we hit Slide 24, I want to summarize our focus areas, take you through a brief trading update, and also our outlook.  Our concise focus areas are as follows: First and most importantly, stabilize sales and return to growth. We want to grow gross margin. We want to continue to simplify our business. We also want to continue to reduce working capital and use our inventory investments efficiently. Finally, improving profitability and returning to dividends is a key focus. I have a brief update on our trading performance for the start of the second half, noting that this is a seasonally nonsignificant trading period for both brands, and the Tropical Cyclone Alfred has impacted Queensland and Northern New South Wales stores for both brands with approximately 100 lost trading days.  With that in mind, direct-to-consumer sales, including online for the first 7 full weeks to the 16th of March, are Kathmandu plus 5.2% year-on-year, noting that gross margin is under pressure due to increased promotional intensity and a competitive trading environment. Rip Curl's global direct-to-consumer sales for owned stores and websites are approximately plus 0.7% above last year. The gross margin for Rip Curl remains resilient. As we have noted earlier in the presentation, wholesale accounts remain cautious on preseason commitments in a challenging market. Forward orders and in-season buying from key accounts support an improving wholesale trend through 2025.  Gross margin is under pressure in the short term for all brands in a highly competitive global market. Our teams remain focused on growing gross margin in the medium term as markets improve. We continue to monitor the impact of geopolitical uncertainty on consumer confidence and supply chains. Global monetary policy settings have been easing, but the return of consumer confidence will take time. In the meantime, our teams remain focused on delivering positive sales growth, improving profitability, maximizing cash flows, and reducing inventory. We believe that with our portfolio of iconic global outdoor brands and leadership in sustainability, we remain a unique investment proposition and well-placed for the future.  And finally, following the announcement of my resignation in October, next week is my last week with KMD Brands. I will spend the next few days meeting with investors and handing over to the new group CEO, Brent Scrimshaw. Brent brings a great deal of experience to the role, given his time at Nike. He knows what consumers want from global brands, and I have every confidence in the future success of this great company under his leadership. It's been a privilege to lead KMD Brands for the last 4 years and many more at Rip Curl. Thank you to the Board for the opportunity to my team for your partnership and all KMD employees for your ongoing dedication. Okay. Time for questions now. This now concludes the formal part of today's presentation. I want to thank you all for taking the time to join us on this call. And I would now like to open the call for questions.

[Operator Instructions] And your first question is from the line of Guy Hooper from Jarden.

If I can just maybe clarify firstly, the gross margin short-term pressure comment. Can you just give us a sense of whether or not that's further pressure from what you've delivered today or just sort of remaining under pressure?

Look, it varies by Brands, Guy. As we've noted, the margin for Rip Curl has been relevantly resilient. That said, we are seeing ongoing liquidations in that market. But it'd be fair to say that Kathmandu faces more of that pressure, given the environment it operates in. Kathmandu is operating, obviously, predominantly in Australian and New Zealand malls. Rip Curl is predominantly operating in more tourist locations, beach locations where discounting and promotional activity is not as prevalent. So certainly, as we saw in the first half, we expect that the Kathmandu brand will be under more margin pressure than, for example, the Rip Curl brand. And we're also well aware that it is a very tough trading environment at the moment, and we are coming into Kathmandu's peak trading season, which I imagine is going to be quite promotional by a lot of brands, given some of the numbers we're seeing across the board. So yes, we expect to see softness and declines in gross margins for Kathmandu in the second half. What they end up being will depend on how the promotional activity goes. Our inventory is looking reasonably good. But that said, we've got to compete with the market to make sure we maintain market share, and we will do that as needed. And given where the broader economic environment is across Australia and New Zealand and what we're seeing in the market to date, we expect to see margins continue to be under pressure. And I think we're seeing most retailers in this part of the world say the same things.

I mean, you mentioned the liquidations there. Do you want to give us a sense of what or how you see those for the brand, both the short-term impacts, but then maybe touch on some of the medium-term impacts for how that leaves Ripfield's position?

Look, you certainly heard me say before, Guy, that the change in ownership and structure arrangements for our competitors across the market for Surf will, we think, create some good medium to long-term opportunities, but it does see some short-term headwinds, particularly as we see changes in partners across those brands, different distribution strategies. And certainly, when we see the need for some of those exiting licensees to liquidate product, it does put a lot of pressure on the market in terms of price, both in terms of online activity and in-store activity. So, I think Liberated Brands' liquidation or Chapter 11, I should say, is widely documented, and what they have been doing in the market recently is widely documented. And we're still trading through that. And that does put some pressure on Rip Curl in terms of driving sales growth in that broader environment. But yes, it's part of the market at the moment, and we'll get through it in the short term, but we continue to think it creates good opportunities in the medium to long term.

And just one last one for me. I mean, the wholesale channel has been tough for a while. You mentioned the caution from the buyer's side. Can you just give us a little bit of color around whether or not that's still inventory in the channel that continues to be wound down? And to what extent are you just seeing general caution as well around consumer pressures in the international markets?

Obviously, some fairly disruptive times at the moment with particularly potential trade wars and so forth. So, I think with all of that uncertainty and not knowing what duties or tariffs are going to be, it does create an ongoing uncertainty, I think, in anyone's mind. So, that's certainly the broader context.  As we look at our forward orders, we've closed off the first season for the 2026 financial year. So, these are shipments that will occur in the first half of 2026. And probably for the first time in a long time, we're seeing some positivity in those numbers, particularly across specialty retail in all markets.  So honestly, the wholesale order book for that sort of first half looks as good as it has for the last 2 years. So from that point of view, it does give us some encouragement that we have seen the worst of the inventory cycle. We're also seeing a little bit of uplift in at-once ordering in season across the board, generally across most territories.  So again, that gives us confidence that the market has cycled through the inventory. That said, there still remains a very cautious outlook, given the broader economic and geopolitical situation.

And your next question comes from the line of Bianca Fledderus of UBS Investment Bank.

So, firstly, just following up on Guy's question. But for the Kathmandu brand, could you provide any guidance around what you're expecting for gross profit margins for that brand in the second half at all?

Hi, Bianca. Yes, no, we're not going to give outlooks for gross margin. It's really hard to anticipate what's happening in this market in terms of promotional activity. As I said before, we're trading in malls across Australia and New Zealand. It's tough out there. It's been tougher in New Zealand than it has been in Australia. Over the last year or 2. And yes, it's really hard to know what that outlook is going to be, and what we do know is that we have to be competitive in the market. And if the market gets more competitive in price, we will have to play that game. If it eases off, then we'll ease off as well. So, we're in a relatively good inventory position. So, we don't have the need to be aggressively discounting, but we do need to ensure that we maintain our market share. And if we do need to be more promotional, we will be. So, it does make it hard to give any sort of definitive outlook.  What we have said is that we do think that margins will be softer for Kathmandu as they have in the first half. We expect them to be softer in the second half. The relativity of that softness will just depend on the trading conditions we see over the next couple of months, particularly noting that obviously we've got some very big trading periods to come for the Australia and New Zealand winter.

And then in terms of, I guess, Macpac being one of your key competitors, I guess there was a period where it looks like they were taking some market share, and now some of the data suggests that you might be taking back some of that market share. Is that what you're seeing? Or could you comment on that a little bit?

Look, we try to focus on our own backyard and focus on what we need to focus on. And for that, as I said before, every season, we get the chance to front the market again and show great products. And that's what we can do. And we're really encouraged that each quarter under Megan's leadership, we're seeing better trading results each quarter. And that's our aim moving forward.  And if we can continue to do that, we think that we'll look to shore up or, if not gain, our market share, and that's our focus. So every season, every quarter, just showing up again and making sure we're better than the quarter past. We've done a good job of that to date, and hopefully, we can continue that in the future.

And then lastly, just on your comments you made before around billable Quick closing stores in the U.S. So in their press release, they mentioned the likes of Shin impacting their U.S. operations. Could you just comment on to what extent that's impacting you? In particular for  Rip Curls U.S., I guess?

Look, I think no specific comment with respect to that brand. I think that what we're seeing in the market is ongoing changes in consumer behaviors, whether that's more people buying stuff through TikTok and TikTok influencers or whether that's stuff people buying stuff on Temu or Amazon or whatever the case may be. I think what relates to us is just ensuring that we continue to have great products.  You would have heard us reference a number of times, product innovation, good sustainable fabrics, technologies and most importantly, products that are truly designed for the user, for the Outdoors and for surfing. If we continue to do that well and continue to execute on, we shouldn't have any problems relative to other competitors, particularly those that are selling volume at a price.  So that's our focus, and that's why we've made some investments. We're encouraged by our more recent quarterly trends and the continued improvement in our sales trends. And yes, we're hopeful for the future, particularly as we see some more resilience in the consumer, hopefully, with some relief on monetary policy.

[Operator Instructions] And your next question is from the line of Paul Koraua from Forsyth Barr.

Maybe just a few from me. If we start on the outlook. Now, I understand that the 7-week trading period is pretty nonsignificant. But if we think about positive sales growth but margins under pressure, is there any guidance, or is there any color you can give us about sort of what's happened with gross profit or gross profit dollars through the first 7 weeks?

Yes, reasonably.

Are we still run rating positively?

Fairly neutral, to be honest, Paul. It might be a slight gain. But as I said, I wouldn't read too much into that. It's not a seasonally important time for us. February is, I believe, our lowest month of trade for the whole year.  And to be honest, I never really like referencing trends for that time of year because a very positive trend or a very negative trend can be reversed in 1 or 2 weeks in a more statistically relevant season. So, to be honest, yes, I wouldn't read too much into what we're seeing at the moment. I'm more interested in what happens when we start comping some of the bigger Easter numbers and we see the broader results of March or April, as most retailers refer to it.

I understand that. So maybe if we move to Kathmandu then, if you look at that quarterly sales chart, the momentum has been pretty strong in a positive direction. I guess what I'm trying to understand is how much of that Q1 and Q2 sales is comping from a pretty easy period through '24. And how much of it is some of the work that you guys have been doing to improve the store network? What is the sense within the business from those changes?

Look, it's really hard to judge, obviously. It's almost impossible to know exactly where good momentum is coming from. I mean the way we see it, we're encouraged by a number of data points that we see, whether that be some of our external brand metrics from researching the market, from our online performance, which has been really strong to just some of the results we're seeing, particularly for some of our top stores.  So we look at a range of data points. But as I mentioned earlier, our key focus is, quite honestly, just turning up every quarter and being better and just continuing that strong momentum. We know we're going to get it from a number of different areas, and Megan and the team are doing a really great job of ensuring we put a slide in the deck about our focus on product, our focus on brand, our focus on consumer experience, and execution. They're all key areas of focus. They're all key areas of investment, and they're all key areas that are going to help draw strong momentum.  So I'm not sure I've specifically answered your question, but yes, that's our focus. To be honest, it's just that quarterly seasonal improvement. And we're happy with the trend. Of course, we would like it to be better, but we still closed the half at an operating loss for Kathmandu. If you compare to where we were 2 years ago, we still got a lot of work to do. So, we certainly think the job has still got to be done, but we're encouraged that we are starting to build some momentum, and Megan and the team are doing a good job of that, and I'm sure they'll continue to do that in the future.

Maybe just another one. A lot of the medium-term and longer-term targets weren't specifically referenced in this result. Is there anything to read into that? Or are those still sort of active in the background?

Absolutely. Obviously, it's a half-year release. So, we're not diving too much into deeper strategic updates and so forth. At the same time, some of those targets were set in a very different market. They were set largely by me 4 years ago when I took on the role. And as we know, economic times have considerably changed since then. So obviously, Brent started a couple of days ago, and I'm sure over the coming days and weeks and months, he'll review the strategy and work with the team and make the refinements necessary. And I'm sure sometime during 2025, we're certainly due for an Investor Day. And with that will be a broader strategic update, and we'll reconfirm the goals that still remain relevant, and we'll make changes where we think we need to make changes given the change in the broader economic and market conditions.

And maybe just the last one from me. There was commentary around the impact of the cyclone in Queensland and Northern New South Wales, 100 lost trading days. We get that to be a pretty minor impact on sales if we work it out. Is that a fair commentary that it's maybe $0.5 million of lost sales?

Look, it was something we've mentioned just so people don't jump to conclusions that it was either nothing or a couple of hundred days. But yes, look, statistically, it's not a major call-out from us. Unfortunately, with the days that we're seeing in climate change at the moment, you just never know what you're going to face. So, we thought it relevant, but it's certainly nothing that we're calling out that's had a material impact on our results.

Currently, there are no further questions on the phone. So, I would like to hand it back to management to continue.

We have received a few questions online. The first question is from Kieran Carling. You have commented that short-term gross margin pressure is expected across all brands. Can you help us understand why Kathmandu and Rip Curl's gross margins are coming under pressure now, having been fairly resilient through 1H '25?

I think I've largely answered that with the earlier question. Just to restate, Rip Curl's margins have been quite resilient in the first half. We expect them to probably hold up a little bit better than, say, the Kathmandu brand for the reasons I outlined before, given where they're trading, but there is still a little bit of pressure there. That said, we don't expect to see a major dilution in the Rip Curl margin. We haven't seen it in recent years and don't necessarily expect it to be too significant as we move forward. As I mentioned earlier, Kathmandu is in a very different situation. It's operating in malls and environments in Australia and New Zealand, which is very promotional. And we've seen a lot of Australia and New Zealand retailers come out and disclose margin pressure.  As we said in the first half, Kathmandu has experienced margin pressure. We don't know what the next 6 months has in store for us. What we do know is that we expect a fairly aggressive promotional cycle through our peak trade. Therefore, we do expect that there will be some continued margin pressure for Kathmandu, given the broader trading conditions and where it operates. So yes, I think it's a little bit of a continuation of what we've seen in the first half, where Rip Curl being a little bit more resilient than Kathmandu, and we expect Oboz will improve on the back. It won't have the same level of clearance it had in the first half.

Can you give us a read on where wholesale inventory levels are currently sitting for Rip Curl and Oboz with your key partners, both in Australia and North America? To answer that question, do you have any data to suggest whether your wholesale brands are underperforming or outperforming other apparel brands through the channel?

As I mentioned earlier, in terms of the wholesale inventory look, I never want to say we've seen the worst of it, but I feel like we've cycled through the worst of it in terms of stockpiled inventory across the broader Australian and North American market. We have confidence in that because we are starting to see some positivity in forward orders, as I mentioned earlier, for the first half of the 2026 year, which is the first time we've seen that in a good 18 to 20 months. We're also seeing increased activity in at-once orders. So, a couple of those points together give us some good confidence that the worst of the wholesale inventory has been cycled through. In terms of market share, it is always hard to get market share data. What I will say is that Rip Curl has remained flat in a very challenging environment with some of our key competitors having solvency issues, which sort of indicates to us that we're certainly not losing ground. And indeed, if anything, we could be taking some market share. Obviously, we'd like to see some growth in that. But obviously, with the challenging wholesale markets, it's harder to post positives. But as we've referenced in the materials, our D2C, particularly our online trade, has been strong for Rip Curl. Likewise, our Oboz D2C trade has been very strong, with over 30% growth. We think that they are a much better indicator of market strength and brand strength. And with them both being positive in this market, we certainly take that as a win relative to what we're seeing with some of our other competitors or direct competitors, those 2 brands.

Based on your trading update, it looks like sales growth in Kathmandu and Rip Curl have decelerated from the second quarter. How much of this was Cyclone Averaged, and how much of this was a challenging consumer? Have you noticed changes in consumer sentiment this calendar year due to heightened macro global uncertainty?

Look, as a reference back to my point earlier, I just would be very careful in using any trend of a 6-week period through February and early March, given it is our lowest trade period of the year and one that it's a change of seasons. From that point of view, I'm just always nervous because I've seen the trends go positive and negative from there. What's most important is what happens in this upcoming winter trade for Kathmandu. If the weather starts to get cold and winter kicks in, we're going to see some, what we think will be some, really good trade. But who knows what the weather has got in store for us. So from that point of view, yes, I mean, the numbers are what they are. I wouldn't be taking our 6-week trade as an indicator of what the next 3 months would be, though. So I'd be very careful there.

Next question from [indiscernible]. Your operating expenses continue to be elevated. Have you cut any costs and closed any underperforming stores, especially Kathmandu's, over the last 6 months? If you haven't, are you considering closing any stores?

Yes. We've closed a net of 4 stores, I believe. So yes, we're definitely, as every lease comes up, if we've got stores that are underperforming, we have no concerns in closing them. We don't believe in loss leaders in stores. We look at every store in an isolated case. And if it's not paying its way, we will close it. So yes, we have closed some stores during the period. In terms of cost-cutting efforts, yes, certainly in the first half, our expenses were up around 4%.  We anticipated we would be at around about inflation for this first half because we had some investments that we were strategically making in things like Kathmandu's product execution, Kathmandu's marketing execution, as well as some ongoing online and IT spend. So that is definitely fueling some expense growth, but to be honest, to pay for that, we're also making some ongoing changes in efficiencies. We've referenced simplifying our business and our focus. That's aimed at where we can get those efficiencies from IT upgrades and continuing to improve our cost base. We've still got some ongoing work to do. We've still got some ongoing efficiencies to realize, which we are, and that will continue to be a focus as we move forward.

Last question from [indiscernible]. I am appreciating the challenging trade environment, but others are sitting in the same boat and trading better. Do you understand why your competitors seem to attract more business than Kathmandu in difficult times? While I understand that a better trade environment would be good for everybody, is there may be something else that Kathmandu can do to change or become competitive again? What is your plan?

Yes. Look, as we've referenced, we get a chance every season, every quarter, to do better than the last quarter. And we've shown in the last 4 or 5 quarters, that's exactly what we've been doing. That's been our focus. Hard to reference any specific competitors. We just have to be better at what we do. So that's our focus. And continuing that positive sales momentum is where we are focused. Kathmandu remains a strong market leader in outdoor. We've got 160-plus stores. It's the most in the market. Some of our competitors are aggressively opening stores. We're not. So that will always translate to better top line performance than us. But it is what it is, and we've got to continue to be better, and that's our focus quarter by quarter, season by season.

Okay. No more questions. Great.

Thanks, everyone. That's the end of today's call. Thanks for your time, and that's all for today.