Kore Digital Limited (KDL-SM.NS) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good evening, everyone. I'm Yugandhara from AKMIL Strategic Advisors. It is a pleasure to welcome you all to the investor meet of Kore Digital Limited. Thank you for taking the time to join us today. Kore Digital Limited is a key player in Maharashtra's telecom infrastructures, specializing in a telecom tower poles and large-scale optical fiber network. From the management team, we are pleased to have with us Mr. Ravindra Doshi, Managing Director. With that, I now hand over the call to Mr. Ravindra Doshi. Over to you, sir. Thank you.

Welcome all the investors. And [indiscernible] our December investor concall. We straight away start with the questions, please. Coordinator has to take the calls. Questions please.

Yes, we will take the question. Mr. Vishal, sir, please go ahead and ask your question.

Hi, Mr. Doshi, just if you could help clarify, right? So firstly, congratulations on completing the milestone of 100 kilometers. And if you could just clarify to understand your first half revenue of INR 258 crores approximately. So where -- how much -- there are no milestone payments in that, right? So is it some of it is earthwork or majority is earthwork? And in the second half of the year, where will the revenue come from?

It is earthwork and network, both. Yes, there is no network revenue in this. Milestone revenue is not there. It still take some time because this time monsoon has extended. So we are 1.5 months late. So in case of December, we will get it in January sometime.

Okay. So long term, can you just clarify like majority will be -- is it lease income from renting the infrastructure or selling it? Or how does that?

Long term, we will get -- for first 15 years, we are getting the lease payment once we complete the project. And then it will be extended for another 10 years. So total 25 years visibility is there on this project.

So your revenue guidance, if you could give for FY '26 and '27, what you're looking at?

Sir, what is hurry? Let us finish this year? I'll give the guidance starting next year.

Yes. But you're looking to end the year at around INR 800 crores, you said in terms of top line?

No, this year, it won't reach INR 800 crores because we have lost 1.5 crucial months. We'll be a little less than that. But our operational profit is high. So only it is affecting our top line, not the PAT. PAT will be in same range, straight line. Almost straight line.

May I ask a question? Hi, this is Imran.

Yes, sir. Please go ahead.

Sir, I'll continue with the last participant's last question. You said it will remain a straight line. What does it mean?

Straight line means we are having an exponential -- this thing. Our PAT will continue growing like whatever is current. A little bit downtrend in top line because of excessive rents.

So last year, about INR 30 crores we did on a INR 350 crores, so about 10%. So it will also be 10% similar or?

It is within the range. It is 9% to 10%. It is not exact...

9% to 10% of let's say, INR 600 or whatever, INR 700, INR 800 crore?

Whatever we reach.

And sir, the question that I have -- the next question is on the Samruddhi Highway. So you recently, I think, mentioned in one press release that you have already connected Thane to Amane. Is it correct?

That is true.

So this will bring revenues in how much time?

This will be -- before March, we get -- we'll register the revenue.

So you'll get the revenue before March?

Imran, what happens, there is some small, small, small patches are still not complete. Until the entire road is fully operational, putting network is also not possible. But by this month end or maybe 15 January, we will get the full connectivity and things. So it takes another 1 or 2 months for inspection and all those things and then revenue starts.

And sir, one question that I keep struggling with. So if I go to, let's say, Amane or between -- anywhere between Amane to Thane or for that matter, even on the Samruddhi Highway, I get proper network on my phone, whether it is Jio or Airtel.

If you are looking at the signal bar, on your mobile, you will see. You try to communicate, you will not get. There was a question in Mumbai, this one -- Nagpur winter session regarding poor connectivity and data problem connecting the data on Samruddhi Highway. There was a big question. So that is there. See, telecom companies are also now smart. They immediately don't want to pump in the capital because 700 kilometers RF coverage is very expensive. So they are also waiting. Let traffic increase.

But sir, that will happen on its own pace, right? And we, as a company, I think we also have to pay yearly some money to MSRDC for the right of way. So I'm just thinking from a business point of view, right, when we put, let's say, INR 100 crores to make that.

That is right, Imran. You will have to look into the fine prints of the contract. We do not have to pay right of way for next 2 years as a moratorium. Because really, we don't know whether these companies will take the entire network in 1 month, 2 months, 4 months, 6 months. So we also make such provisions that estimates and things don't go wrong.

Right. And sir, what do you think -- I mean [Foreign Language] how long will it take us to make profits in cash because [Foreign Language].

As long as we keep growing and this growth rate is there, I don't expect to have that. But at this rate of growth, having both the things are a little bit of, what should I say, over expectations.

No, no, I don't think in that way, sir. My question is, we are a very small company, right? And some people also have doubts, [Foreign Language] all those things. So I was wondering if you could take a break maybe in 1 or 2 years and actually put some cash on the balance sheet and maybe give 1% or 2% dividend also. Why not give dividend so that people know that.

This year, I'm thinking of dividend. And your suggestion is really good. I appreciate once I finish Samruddhi Highway project, I will put cash. My promise.

Yes. So maybe break for a year...

Completing this big project, it can be a small break, 3 to 6 months. At that time, you will see cash.

Right, right.

Sir, hidden this thing is not the fiber network. Our hidden this thing is RF network. That is when this 5G coverage will be given on the entire Samruddhi Highway, that will start making big cash for us.

No, no, I know. I have done some calculations. So that is what I was wondering of, if we take a break because we are already in this year, crossing INR 500 crore top line. That's a massive top line for a very small company.

That is how it works. We are working at a breakneck, very high speed. So I will need a break. I will do it sometime in '26, '27. So this time, it is money for me to complete the network as fast as possible.

Right. And sir, on the defense side, do we have any progress there? Or it is like governments typically.

Sir, things are work in progress. I'm very positively hopeful that I'll give you really good news before March.

Right. And last call, I think you were mentioning about setting up a facility to manufacture defense parts. So are you still considering?

It is under process.

So it will be delayed by about 3, 4, maybe 6 months, right?

No, no, sir. What technology we use, infrastructure development and things will not take that long. The most important thing is our all prototype has to be accepted. They are in various stages. Naval one is about to be accepted and Air Force is under development. So maybe another 2 months. See, what has happened, there is a change in government policy. So we will be getting actually development order. In place of a real order for 500 pieces, they will give us development order for 20, 30, 50 pieces like that. And that will -- we will be able to realize in before March. What we are doing is really exciting. Once it comes, -- you will also be excited. Yes, good work is being done in India.

Right. No, I understand. I understand the concept. I have looked at it, wonderful concept. Nobody is doing it. That's very good. I don't have more questions. If anybody wants to ask, please feel free. Otherwise, maybe I'll just take -- get some clarifications. Maybe I'll continue with the clarification that I...

No, there are questions. Amit is typing some questions.

[Foreign Language] Questions.

Sir, a question from Mr. Chandrashekar Ravuri. Why we don't have a credit coverage on our company?

What is that?

I think it is credit rating, yes.

Yes, Credit rating is very expensive. So when it is required, we will take. Getting CRISIL or other ratings, that is what I am understanding, but it is very, very expensive. So once the right opportunity is there, we will definitely take it.

Okay. Update on the defense projects talk and progress.

I think I've already covered while talking to Imran.

Can we have a reputable auditor for auditing to improve credibility of company?

I'll take it up in next AGM. Because changing the auditor in midway is not suggestable. So we will do it, but at least external auditor or something to address whatever concern is raised here, yes.

Mr. Rahul is asking, will second half revenue at least be higher than first half revenue?

My suggestion is it is better that we look at the end of year. Quarterly -- see, we are in infrastructure and actually comparing quarterly is a little -- I would say, it is a little premature. Infrastructure companies cannot work on a quarterly basis. We are giving the results for satisfaction of our investors, but that is not practical. You will get whatever is targeted, whatever is achievable in the March. Second quarter is always very low for our line of business because almost this year, full 6 months, there is no working. So whatever is overflow of billing and things, that is only done in second quarter. Third quarter and fourth quarter is always much higher. This is -- you can see the trend in the last 2 years and before that also. I think I have answered this.

Sir, how early can we expect receivable to come? Are we still on a track to get INR 700 crores to INR 800 crores as promised?

I think I have already spoken on the time line while talking to Mr. Imran. So let us not repeat it -- have a repeated question.

Update on the new project win in Kore telecom business?

Kore telecom business, we are having the largest order going on. It will look into it after we are -- at least we have crossed the 50% of the project time line. Getting a new order now is not going to help anywhere because our entire strength is involved in Samruddhi Highway project. But the moment we cross 50% threshold, we will definitely go for it, a new project.

Mr. Sanjay is saying, sir, please update on bids of pipeline project. When can we expect a new project apart from Samruddhi?

Apart from Samruddhi, we have already tied up with Adani Total Gas and other things. So hopefully, we will have in a couple of months -- next couple of months, we will be getting some additional orders. This is for gas pipeline, but it is the same work.

Any comment on the fall in shares price and low confidence among investors?

The entire market is down. What can I do? Sentiment is bad all across the board. Nothing can be done.

Can we have your other top management, CEO, CFO, COO as well in con calls?

Next March onwards, you will see. CEO is getting married. So he's very busy right now.

How are we going to raise funds for defense CapEx?

We have our own sources. And definitely, if required, I will approach my investors. So for SME sector, there is a very, very robust government support. So about INR 100 crores, we get through guarantees and other supports are also there. And when it is possible, once we are able to perform well, we will definitely approach our investors for retiring the government debts. Government means bank debt.

Do we see a possible write-off in our receivables?

Write-off is not there, nothing. Whatever write-off was there, it was already done a small one in last year. And this year, we will not have any write-offs.

What is our total employee cost on an annual basis for the company, including on and off payrolls?

We see off payrolls are our sub-contractors, and that is actually taken in construction cost. It is not computed separately. On payroll cost will be almost stable.

Mr. Venkat is asking, KDL has recently informed about completion of Stage 1 of Samruddhi Mahamarg OFC network. In what way it is expected to contribute to top line and bottom line in Q4 and part of Q3?

Q3, there will be nothing. Q4, there will be positive cash inflow, but time line is very short for us. So let us see what is realized. But Q1 next year, definitely, you will see a very good cash flow from this completed work because by that time, we will cross shielding. And this is the main track needed by each and every telecom company and other Internet companies and data centers and all. So there is a definite possibility in having a better heavy inflow in first quarter because this year, we have lost almost 2 months.

Question from Mr. Sanjeev. When do you expect Samruddhi project to complete, sir? How much remaining revenue do you expect from Samruddhi till completion?

Sir, we are at 0 in revenue. So whatever comes, it will be done, it will take somewhere around -- next year, December to '27 April to complete the project.

Mr. Ravi Chand is asking what is the cost of preparing samples for defense? And what would be the margin once we get project in that domain?

We are working on it. Preparation of sample is covered under development order. So we get paid for entire cost. So that is the margins. At present, it will be a little hazardous to guess. But I'll say as per our standard business, margins are far better because it is a complete total deep tech. Until now, we are the only single solution provider in India for what we are doing.

Question from Mr. Mukund. What was the reason of resignation of the independent director?

They wanted to resign, so they have resigned. They have not discussed with me in person, so I really don't know. For that, I think if you ask to CS, he'll be able to -- please write a mail to him.

Mr. Ashish Kumar is asking, there was a large increase in receivables at end of September. When can these receivables be expected to be released?

Before March.

Rajesh Jain is asking, 2 to 3 years down the line, you see future growth from telecom or defense?

See, defense will be the sector we will have a much, much higher growth. Telecom will remain steady. Unless 6G or something is rolled out and then there is a massive requirement, only then. But defense, there is an endless requirement. It is up to us how we perform and how we grow.

[Operator Instructions] Okay. There are some other questions in the chat box.

I see one question from Mr. Vishal. Yes, See, major revenue from Samruddhi Highway will be from the rental of ports, which will provide coverage, 5G coverage to entire highway. It is a monthly revenue, and it is really very, very big figure is also there.

Yes, Mr. Tushar, please go ahead and ask your question. Tushar, sir, please unmute yourself.

Or at least type it.

Sir, are we still on track to get INR 600 crores to INR 700 crores revenue as was promised in the last con call?

We are on the track, but you can expect top line a little lower, but profit will be same. Profit will be on the same track.

So we can expect the same operating margin of 15% to 16%?

We are having 9% PAT. That will be there. Yes. I see one question from Mr. Vivek. Yes, what we are doing, Mr. Vivek, we develop full density metal parts of various steels and high-temperature nickel alloys, titanium alloys and cobalt alloys. And these parts are used in different applications, like steel parts are normally used as a breechblock of guns. So we have already successfully delivered some breechblock. They are under testing, and we are expecting order for breechblocks. Breechblock is something where we are -- we have the firing pit. If you are aware of a gun this thing, firing -- breechblock is what holds the firing pit. So entire pressure of blast of any round, it comes on the breechblock, be it a pistol, be it a rifle, be it a gun. So we have done it for on e170 mm gun, which is actually about 30 years old. But we have lots of those guns and then parts are not available. So we are doing that. Similarly, for other weapons of Navy and some parts of Air Force, some engine parts are there, some non-engine parts are there. On open platform, I'm really sorry, I won't be able to name the things. But if anyone is interested, they can come and visit our office or they can visit the workshop at IIT Powai. We will be able to show because we are under nondisclosure, I cannot speak about the parts, but you can see physically. Sir, the same team is working. I saw a question. I'm sorry, I did not notice the name. Same team is working because 3D printing and metal 3D printing is handled by same team, CEO, Mr. Chaitanya, then we have another one, Mr. Jaina and a few other engineers. They are handling it. Mr. Ashish Gupta is handling marketing and coordination with all these departments. So that is there. We have a fairly big team. At this stage, adding manpower is not suggestable because all our machines are 100% automated. [Foreign Language] please hold the question.

How confident are we to get the final note from defense? When can we expect the expansion plan in a place for the defense order? That is any rough estimate of a month?

Mostly, we will have positive results and production by this year, March. After that, infrastructure will take 2 to 3 months because we -- what we are doing, we do not need a huge, massive infrastructure. This -- to understand this, if you visit manufacturing facility, you will know. I think Dr. Khan has visited.

Tushar Karla is asking, sir, can we get expansion in other states in a long term?

Mr. Pratik is asking 70 mm is a small gun, which was used for shooting down the drones. This is manufactured by Bofors, the other Bofors -- small Bofors guns. It is an automatic gun. I don't have pictures. Otherwise, I will show you. of the gun. So they are mostly mounted on ships and they are mounted on shore. [indiscernible] is the common name you know it.

The technology that we are working on in defense, is it used to other parts of the world? Can you give some references?

General Electric, Bofors, then this other one, Lockheed Martin, many. You will find all our examples with the [indiscernible] the gun, everything on Internet. It is not difficult. You write metal printed parts for aircraft, you will get it.

Question is from Mr. Tushar.

[indiscernible] Otherwise, it is used.

Can we get expansion in other states in long term?

Sorry?

Can we get expansion in other states in long term?

States? For Telecom?

Yes.

We are planning. I'll have to ramp up my team and other things, offices. So we have opened one office in Delhi. And from Delhi, we will cover Rajasthan, Haryana, UP. Yes, it is in pipeline.

Mr. Ashish Kumar is asking, will manufacturing of defense will be under subsidiaries? I was just looking that Kore additive manufacturing is not a subsidiary.

It is not a subsidiary, it will not be. That is a company specializing in biotech, which is a completely different field. So that will not be part.

Imran sir, having some queries. Imran sir, unmute yourself and ask your question.

Sir, what all businesses do we have as of now under Kore Digital's umbrella? It is defense part and some other parts as well, right?

Let me define it clearly. See, there are -- defense is one. Defense is for the full density metal 3D printing. That is what is specialization in defense. For that, there is a complete process, scanning and all those things. So that is there. Other than that, there is a specific operation of installing the pipes. That is one part. Then there is a specific operation of leasing out the thing. And there is a part of working other than telecom. So accordingly, we have made our subsidiaries.

Right. So sir, in the pipe laying arm, which is, I think, a separate company. So it will first, let's say, lay the ducts for the Samruddhi Highway, all 700 kilometers. And then it will build to whom the leasing company?

It will build to leasing company, yes.

Okay. Okay. And then it will...

It is like that. Once network is done, the physical labor part and things are done, it is given, given to the infrastructure company, which handles it and maintenance. That infrastructure company, along with the main company leases out the thing because main company is the one which is earning turnover. So it qualifies for all the big tenders and other things. The main company is used for bidding and getting the tenders. These companies are used for execution at various stages.

And sir, why there is a need for 2 separate companies. One is laying the ducts, doing the work and the other one is completely just focusing on leasing. Why not one company which is…

Leasing involves maintenance. So it is a daily work. While construction is at a particular site, just once it is done, team will keep moving, while maintenance team is permanently posted for years. So there is a difference and then there are labor issues and there are local issues and so many things are there. So this is the most convenient way we do.

And right. And sir, when the infra company, which is digging, laying the duct, doing the work, let's say, for Samruddhi, you have spent about INR 100 crores or INR 150 crores for the duct laying part. How does it gets it back or it remains in loss? How does it work?

No, no. Whatever is the cost, cost is already reimbursed.

So who reimburse it? Because you will not get in the first year, right? You will get it in the coming years?

We are having separate financial arrangements for all the subsidiaries, which is not impacting our parent company. Current company is not providing money for anything, okay? Current company is getting the permission and those things are my expenses. These companies are separate. Their finances are separate. So we don't feed them as a parent company.

And again, I'm confused a bit here. So the company...

For that, you can come over and have a tea and discuss, no issues. Because others -- we are boring others.

No, right. And sir, just coming back to the Samruddhi Highway project. Can you, for simplicity, tell us what all it involves. [Foreign Language] for 1.5 meters.

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] because see, we have announced this project in 2024, [Foreign Language] so 3 years would have been gone. So I am just thinking [Foreign Language] because [Foreign Language] these pictures and videos [Foreign Language] there are machine which is digging basically, right? [Foreign Language] you have been only able to connect Thane in the last, I don't know how many...

Sir, you need to read the reports properly and updates. Stage 1 is not Amane and Thane. Thane and Amane is not part of Samruddhi Highway at all. Okay? That is in Thane and Kalyan Dombivali Corporation area. Amane to Igatpuri is the Stage 1.

Right.

Don't confuse it.

So Amane to Igatpuri is now done? [Foreign Language]?

It is done. Now it is being finished. We have to install the [indiscernible].

Both the sides are done, right, from and to?

No, only one.

Only one side. And what about the other side?

Other side will be taken later on.

And sir, so this is a very interesting thing that has come out. Now my question is, [Foreign Language] why would we put on the other side also?

Because it is asked by telecom companies.

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language]

There is some concept in telecom called the Ring. [Foreign Language] If there is only single fiber, which is running between Mumbai and Nagpur and for some reason, it gets cut, then entire route will be down. So there is a second line, parallel. So by any incident or anything, if one thing gets damaged, the other one will keep working. And that is why we do not have frequent breakdown in communication because Ring Protocol is always implemented everywhere, wherever possible. So this is to make a Ring.

[Foreign Language], about 28 kilometers. How many ducts we would be leasing there?

At least 4.

At least 4. All the major telecom companies, [Foreign Language]. And the rates must be higher there because [Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language]?

[Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language] This is common sense. [Foreign Language] Their cost is high. But there again, permissions and things are different. [Foreign Language]. In many of the cases, [Foreign Language]. Will you do it for them? [Foreign Language] NLD always long term.

You're saying something? Sorry. Operator, you're saying something? You are on mute.

Yes, sir. Sir, there are some questions in the chat box.

I'll go mute. Thank you.

Mr. Tushar is asking. Sir, are we planning to -- planning main board listing in future? As I check, all criteria are already fulfilled to mainboard listing from SME?

Definitely, yes. Once our time is there, because that will be -- we will complete 3 years in next year, June. And as soon as possible, we will check to the main board.

Okay. Question from Mr. Rajesh Jain. Since the technology is already developed and in use in other parts of the world, what is the reason that Indian defense has still not started using this technology?

We are very conservative and we are getting spares. Since last 3, 4 years only, we are not getting the spare because Russia is involved in war. So now it is a dire need, so the sector is opening up.

Okay. Mr. Alkesh is asking, at share prices are falling continuously, can we expect management to pump in the cash with buying at open market and boost the confidence of existing investors?

I'll take that call as and when I feel comfortable.

Question from Mr. Hari Krishnan. From the BTS poles for sale, how many telecom companies we can expect for the revenue as a rent? About 4,000 holes, how much revenue we can expect in a total each year?

This poles depends on the requirement of network. Network requirement is being worked upon right now. So this question will be answered next year December. I'll be able to give the exact number of poles. Revenue is expected somewhere around 12,000 to 16,000 per month. Our estimated number of poles is about 4,000. 16,000 per month. I saw one more question, qualification of my team, all our engineers.

Sir, as we have covered most of the questions, so we will go ahead and conclude today's call. Thank you, everyone.

Sorry, I'll just ask one thing. Sir, on this connected part, Thane to this thing, Amane, are you putting BTS polls here as well?

Right now, I don't have any requirement from any of the telecom company. As and when requirement comes -- see, it is a completely different jurisdiction. Response and things will differ. Here, we are already having permission. I can talk with the confidence I have this much. I have to take fresh permission.

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] So be positive.

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] that is the thing which is essential to connect to Samruddhi.

[Foreign Language]. I mean, I am confused here.

This is the open area. Everyone can take permission. There, we do not have monopoly. On Samruddhi Highway, we have monopoly.

[Foreign Language]. Thank you.

[Foreign Language] there were 3 corporations involved and many things there. [Foreign Language] hazard a guess. Whenever something comes on proper paper order, then only I can reveal.

Thank you, Imran sir. Thank you Ravindra sir. Thank you participants for joining this call.

[Foreign Language]

Thanks for arranging the call. this is very helpful. Thank you so much, AKMIL team.

Thank you.

Right. Thanks a lot.

Thank you very much everyone for participating in the call. Thank you Ravindra sir.

Okay. [Foreign Language] see you soon.

Bye-bye. See you. See you.