Krishna Institute of Medical Sciences Limited (KIMS) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the KIMS Hospitals Q1 FY '27 Earnings Conference Call, hosted by IIFL Capital Services Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I will now hand the conference over to Mr. Rahul Jeewani from IIFL Capital Services Limited for opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, Rahul.

Yes. Thanks, Ryan. Hi. Good morning, everyone. This is Rahul from IIFL Capital. I welcome you all to the first quarter earnings conference call of KIMS Hospitals, being hosted by IIFL. From KIMS, we have with us today, Dr. Bhaskar Rao Bollineni, Founder and Managing Director; Dr. Abhinay Bollineni, Executive Director and CEO; Mr. Sachin Salvi, CFO; Dr. Nitish Shetty, CEO for KIMS Bangalore cluster; and Mr. Sreenath Reddy, Director of Business Strategy. Over to you, sir, for your opening comments.

Good morning, and a hearty welcome to all of you from KIMS. The breeze of Independence Day is already growing as the nation is getting ready to celebrate its 80th Independence Day. Let me convey the Independence Day greetings to all of you in advance. Without keeping you waiting, I will straight come to financial and operational results quarter 1, 2026-2027. I'm happy that the growth trajectory continued unabated, and we delivered strong financial and operational results for the quarter. We crossed the INR 1,000 crore mark of revenue in Q3 '25-'26, and the same tempo has continued with gust in the current year. Q1 FY '27 updates. Total revenue of INR 1,196 crores, a growth of 36.1% year-on-year and 10.3% on quarter-on-quarter basis. EBITDA of INR 240 crores, a growth of 20.1% on year-on-year and 10.9% on quarter-on-quarter basis. EBITDA margin at 20.1% versus 20.27% (sic) [ 22.7% ] in quarter 1, financial year '26, and 19.9% in quarter 4, financial year '26. PAT at INR 37 crores in quarter 1 '27 against INR 85 crores and INR 33 crores in Q1 FY '26 and Q4 FY '26, respectively. Consolidated EPS for FY '26 (sic) [ FY '27 ] of INR 1.04, a degrowth of 2.3% on quarter-on-quarter basis. Cash and cash equivalents includes cash, bank balance, deposits with maturity less than 12 months and investment in mutual funds at INR 505 crores as on 30th June 2026. Quarter 1 '27 financial highlights consolidated. Consolidated revenue from operations of INR 1,180 crores, a growth of 35.3% on year-on-year and 9.8% on quarter-on- quarter basis. Consolidated EBITDA pre-Ind AS of INR 222 crores. There is a growth of 14.6% year-on-year and 12.9% on quarter-on-quarter basis. Consolidated EBITDA pre-Ind AS and excluding other income of INR 206 crores, a growth of 10.2% on year-on-year and a growth of 10% on quarter-on-quarter basis. Operational highlights consolidated quarter 1 financial year '27 updates. Average revenue per operating bed grew by 9.7% and 0.1% on year-on-year and quarter-on- quarter basis, respectively. Average revenue per patient grew by 6.8% on year-on-year and a decline of 3.8% on quarter-on- basis. IP volumes, 72,493, grew by 26.6% year-on-year and 14% on quarter-on-quarter basis. The annual growth is 15.4%, that is over the financial year 2025. OP volumes, 658,617, grew by 28.5% year-on-year and 8% on quarter-on-quarter basis. The annual growth is 25.4%, that is over the financial year 2025. Thus both IP and OP volumes registered impressive growth. We have other developments. I want to apprise you of the 2 significant financial initiatives we have undertaken, a qualified institutional placement and a preferential allotment to promoters. The QIP successfully raised INR 1,500 crores and has oversubscribed, demonstrating the deep trust and confidence of institutional investors in the vision of our company. In line with our commitment to financial prudence, INR 1,100 crores of these proceeds have already been utilized to reduce our debt. Furthermore, the preferential allotment to promoters stands at INR 600 crores. Under this arrangement, 25% of the amount is to be infused initially and the balance to be brought in within 18 months. The significant allotment underscores promoters' strong commitment and a long-term faith in the company's stable future. Together, these 2 strategic initiatives will substantially strengthen our balance sheet and provide us with the necessary financial leverage to explore new growth opportunities. I am happy to state that we have recently opened 2 units in Kerala -- 1 unit in Kerala at Palakkad, taking our present strength to 3 units in the state. There is a good potential, and we are confident of good results. I'm happy that all the new units are doing well on expected lines. At Mahadevapura, Bangalore, operated at breakeven less than 7 months, and we are EBITDA positive. At Electronic City, Bangalore, we'll expect breakeven in next 1 or 2 quarters. It has been started a little bit later than Mahadevapura. Both the units are doing very well. We are very, very happy that the entire Bangalore cluster is exponentially doing well. It is gladdening that very complex surgeries, including lung transplants, are taking place in the newly opened centers, which speaks about clinical expertise and infrastructure at these centers. I would like to brief about some exceptional professional accomplishments. Dr. Raghu Ram, our renowned breast care expert, has achieved his third Guinness World Records title in a short span of 15 months. The latest Guinness World Record title was awarded under a newly created category, recognizing innovation in artificial intelligence-enabled holographic health education. The initiative demonstrates the transformative potential of artificial intelligence and immersive communication in advancing public health awareness. Last month, Dr. Raghu Ram addressed 3 distinguished institutions in U.K. We inaugurated a fully dedicated sports ortho clinic at our Seethammadhara, Vizag unit, which is the first of its kind in the state of Andhra Pradesh. Dr. Meda, Head of our Vascular -- Endovascular Surgery department was invited as a faculty at the prestigious SVS Vascular Annual Meeting 2026, held in Boston, USA, the world's premier gathering of vascular surgery leaders. Dr. Meda presented the world's first surgical technique, no shunt, no hypothermia, no bypass, a novel technique for open repair of Type III and Type IV thoracoabdominal aortic aneurysms. This technique is pioneered in the first time in the world, represents a landmark advancement in complex aortic surgery. We are proud to share what is believed to be the first robotic implantation of the new Perceval Plus sutureless aortic valve, not only in India, but Asia Pacific region, by KIMS Nagpur. The procedure was successfully performed by Dr. Saurabh Varshney, using the Da Vinci robotic platform, marking another step forward in the evolution of robotic cardiac surgery. Thus, I have apprised you about latest developments. The overall picture is promising and optimistic. And I am sure we'll be able to achieve the projections in the forthcoming quarters with a continued emphasis on quality care and growth orientation. And you all know that last quarter, we have been -- inaugurated the new facility of Kondapur, and we are now doing a 50% growth within a quarter. I would now conclude saying that we must pioneer the future of health today to secure the very health of our future, tomorrow. Thank you. Rahul?

[Operator Instructions] We take the first question from the line of Sucrit D. Patil from Eyesight Fintrade Private Limited.

I've two 2 questions. My first question to Dr. Abhinay is, beyond the regular outlook, I just want to understand what are the top 2 to 3 execution priorities you are focusing on in the next few quarters. And alongside that, what do you see as the biggest risk in patient demand shift or competitive pressures? And how are you preparing to manage them, while strengthening KIMS' position in the hospitality and health care delivery space? That's my first question. I'll ask my second question after this.

Yes. I think this financial year, a lot of focus is on the new Kondapur hospital, which just got commissioned in last month. The first month has been very promising. We grew by almost 40% in less than a month. So yes, I think a lot of focus on Kondapur; Thrissur, which we are going to commission in the next 3 to 4 months; and obviously, to neutralize EBITDA in most of our hospitals we commissioned in last year.

My second question to Mr. Sachin is, from a financial point of view, what key risks or challenges do you anticipate in the coming quarters? And what specific measures are being taken to manage margins, cash flow and balance sheet strength, especially in areas like cost pressures, receivables or regulatory compliance?

So, as far as the risks are concerned, some of the measures we have already taken care of. We have already launched a QIPO. And using the QIPO proceeds, we have repaid the secured loans. So we have enough leverage to fund the expansion or fund the growth. So, that risk factor has been completely taken care of. As far as the receivable are concerned, yes, the government receivables were the challenge, but we have seen a positive trend in that front. The government receivables are coming on time to a certain extent. So, that risk, to a certain extent, is negative. Loss funding got reduced a bit in last quarter. For the new units, the ramp-up is very important. It all depends upon how quickly we ramp up in the newer units to mitigate the risks which are associated with the financial strength of the company.

We take the next question from the line of [ Sandhya ] from Unicorn Assets.

A couple of questions. First, on the Kerala units, how would you attribute the cost increase we have seen in Kerala units? Going forward, what could be the steady state that we expect from those? Second one would be on the overall clusters. So we have seen quite a few clusters having a significant jump in the ARPOB, but ARPP is decently grown, not like an abrupt jump. So, that explains that ALOS has reduced in those clusters in particular, that has given us quite a good ARPOB jump. So should we see this as steady state? Or is it a quarterly phenomenon due to a mix of certain kind of surgeries or procedures that we do in Q1 favorably and not in the seasonal kind of a thing?

I think Kerala cluster is still in its growth phase. We just added one hospital last quarter. We have another hospital that we'll commission towards the end of this year. So I think right now, we are looking at single-digit EBITDA margins. Maybe through the year, it will continue similarly. But next financial year, we should move to mid-teens kind of a number. And it should stabilize at around 20%, 22% EBITDA margin over the next 2 to 3 years as far as Kerala is concerned. And as far as the ARPOB, we are not seeing significant change on a quarter-on-quarter basis. Whatever numbers we reported in Q4 -- Q1 are very similar. I think that trend will continue to be similar as we ramp up over the next 1 year.

Yes. So just to confirm that we are focusing particularly on decreasing the ALOS and therefore, ARPOB will [indiscernible]. ARPP is the right metrics, right?

I would suggest to look at ARPP because that's a more stronger indicator. ARPOB could be changing because of seasonal case mix. In that particular quarter, 1 or 2 things could change. But the right indicator should be ARPP.

Sure. Makes sense. And how are we seeing demand other than the seasonal factors for the newer units, say, in Kerala or -- of course, you highlighted that Kondapur had a quite good growth. Other than that, how are we seeing the overall demand in the existing units, which are like kind of mature now?

Overall, the demand is quite strong. We are pretty confident about the ramp-up. In fact, things are still going very strong in our favor, in the right direction in most of the clusters. We don't see -- we've had some glitches in terms of insurance empanelments and stuff. But I don't see any challenge in the ramp-up of the hospitals that we've already commissioned. Most of them....

No, my question was more on the existing ones. So how are you seeing the demand in the existing facilities, which are kind of mature now?

We are seeing good demand. There's been good growth in both -- like if you look at Telangana and Andhra, which is our mature cluster, if you look at the year-on-year growth, the revenue growth and EBITDA growth in Telangana and Andhra have been quite strong.

That would -- like there's no number to track like for what would be the growth in the existing versus the new. Therefore why I was asking this question in particular because Telangana would have included -- the numbers overall would have been due to the new volume ramp-up as well, right?

Telangana does not include the new unit. Telangana -- Kondapur commissioned in July. So it does not reflect...

[Operator Instructions] We take the next question from the line of Damayanti Kerai from HSBC.

My first question is on your CapEx strategy. So after expanding significantly in the last 3, 3.5 years, should we assume you are broadly done with your expansion plan and focus from here on will be on improving the profitability metrics? Or do you think there are still some markets or some pockets within the existing market where you can increase your presence further? I just want to understand management's thought there.

Like we mentioned earlier, our priority today is to ensure that all the hospitals that we commissioned turn EBITDA positive and reach a single-digit -- high-single-digit or low-double-digit kind of an EBITDA margin. And once we are confident that the trajectory is sorted, the growth will continue to happen over the next 2, 3 years, then we have enough opportunities in the core markets, which is Telangana, Andhra, Maharashtra, Karnataka, Kerala, which we will continue to pursue after that. So I think our priority is very clear. Next 8 months or next 3 quarters, we will first focus on stabilizing the current hospitals that we commissioned. And maybe next year, we will come up with more greenfield opportunities. But in the core geographies -- we are seeing enough opportunity in the core geographies. We don't look at -- we're not looking at opening up any new geographies.

So more room for greenfield within the existing market itself. That's how you are...

Correct.

My second question is on your Telangana cluster, which is your biggest and most mature cluster. So if we leave apart this new addition of Kondapur unit and when we look at the occupancy, the range has been broadly stayed at, say, 50%, 52% range. So can you explain why occupancy are hovering in that range? And should we assume you can really move it to a much higher level?

I think -- so there is one mistake in this is the number of beds in Secunderabad, we have demolished the old facility, which used to have 250 beds. Right now, the bed capacity shows those beds also. But right now, we have not operationalized those beds. But when the new facility gets ready by end of next year and when we operationalize, then the ramp-up will continue to happen. As far as Telangana is concerned, we don't see any reason why we can't ramp up to 70% in spite of the new Kondapur hospital and the new Secunderabad hospital over the next 3 to 4 years. Next time -- in the next investor presentation, we'll keep a note on which are the beds that are not functional at this point in time because of the renovation and rehabilitation.

Okay. So the actual occupancy would have been higher than what is shown in the presentation, right? And then, you plan to take it to, say, 70% or so in the next few years?

Correct. 70% is doable in spite of the new Kondapur hospital that we've commissioned. Next 3 to 4 years, we will get there.

Okay. And my next question, after paying off this INR 1,100 crores of debt, should we assume a considerable reduction in the interest expense on your books from second quarter onwards?

Surely. So we have completed the QIPO process only at the end of the quarter. At around 24 June, we have received the proceeds into our current account. And using that proceeds, to a certain extent, we have reduced our debt on 27th or 28th June. So the interest cost reduction has not come in the last quarter. You will see that reduction in this quarter and henceforth.

Okay. And my last question is, Sachin, if you can update us on the empanelment status for all the new units in terms of which are remaining and where you have completed the empanelment with the key insurers?

I think we've made good progress from the last call that we had. We have had traction on some of the insurance companies, some of the key insurance companies. There are now a few empanelments left for both -- for the 4 assets, which is largely Thane, Nashik and 2 of the Bangalore assets. I would say, we have now empaneled with 50% of the insurance companies. The remaining 50% is what we are pursuing, which we are now seeing a positive direction. Earlier, we were curious in which direction things are going and we didn't have definitive time lines. But now, I think we have more definitive time lines on when this will be completed. Most of these empanelments, at least the big ones, the key ones will be done by end of August, mid-September.

Okay. So by, say, this fiscal year-end, majority of things should be in place from empanelment perspective. Okay.

We take the next question from the line of Karan Vora from Goldman Sachs.

The first one is with respect to Telangana cluster. So just trying to get a sense on what were the losses of new Kondapur unit? And like how did we maintain kind of such strong margins, which is kind of almost flattish Y-o-Y despite adding like 450 operational beds, if I'm looking at it correctly? And the old facility of Kondapur, have we also shut that, or that is yet to be shut?

So there are very marginal losses in the numbers that I reported in Q1. There are some preoperative costs that we started incurring to the tune of INR 2 crores a month for Kondapur -- INR 1.5 crores, INR 2 crores a month. But July, which was the first full month of Kondapur being operational, the ramp-up has been quite strong. So we are not anticipating much losses. We were usually doing around INR 32 crores, INR 33 crores in Kondapur. July alone, we did INR 45 crores, and more doctors are yet to join. So the traction has been quite strong. We don't anticipate losses like we had indicated earlier. But -- and the old hospital is still operational. It will take us another 6 months before we shut down. So, that could be the drag. Only the rental costs and some operating costs of the old hospitals will be some drag.

Okay. Got it. The second question is with respect to Bangalore ARPOBs. So I think if I'm not mistaken, we had kind of originally guided for like INR 70,000, INR 75,000 ARPOBs, but like we have seen like INR 90,000-plus ARPOBs for 2 quarters. So is that the correct base we should be looking at? And what has changed versus our expectations before we originally started the hospitals versus what is happening on ground?

Sreenath, do you want to take...

Yes. So the ARPOB would go down slightly lower because the empanelments and other things are yet to happen. So therefore, it may not remain at these levels, but it will not go down to the initial level of INR 75,000. So it could be anywhere between -- somewhere -- we are expecting it to be anywhere around INR 85,000, around that number -- INR 80,000 to INR 85,0000. Once we -- all the empanelments are done and more corporates are empaneled, then it should go down to those levels. Your second -- what was the second question? Yes, your second question was, what was different compared to what we had anticipated initially. So there is nothing much different even though initially, we expected around INR 75,000. But the thing is that as we place such a strategy, we placed ourselves as more of a coronary quaternary care hospital, doing very complex kind of procedures, very niche kind of procedures, so these are giving us better numbers both in terms of the ARPP, as well as the ARPOB. And that is the only reason as to why the ARPOB was higher at Bangalore. But it will get stabilized -- as more and more all kinds of cases -- case mix -- all kinds of case mixes happen, it will get more stabilized to around the INR 85,000 number.

Also, if you look at the ARPP, it is very similar to Telangana because the ALOS is lower, the ARPOB looks inflated. But like Sreenath said, INR 85,000 -- INR 80,000 is what you should model as ARPOB for that case.

[Operator Instructions] We take the next question from the line of Rahul Jeewani from IIFL Capital Services Limited.

Sir, if we look at, let's say, the ramp-up trajectory at your 4 new hospitals, which is Nashik, Thane and the 2 Bangalore ones, Nashik achieved EBITDA breakeven this quarter. Mahadevapura and Bangalore have also seen, let's say, substantial decline in losses. But somehow, the Thane trajectory seems to have flattened out. So Thane's EBITDA losses essentially have been flat for past 3 quarters now. So can you talk about in terms of where the ramp-up at Thane has been slightly below versus some of the other newer hospitals?

So there is nothing significantly alarming, Rahul, as far as Thane is concerned. So traditionally, for Maharashtra, at least for our experience in Nashik, Nagpur and Sangli, first quarter is usually a weak quarter, number one. And because of the empanelment delay for the last 4, 5 months, we've not been able to see much growth. But in the month of May, we got our GIPSA empanelment, and 2 more empanelments happened in June. So if you actually look at July, Thane did INR 21 crores in revenue and 10% EBITDA margin. And the August trajectory also is similar as far as the revenue. So I think that Q1 -- suboptimal Q1, we've seen that traditionally in Maharashtra. But July has been a promising month. The same trajectory is continuing in August also.

Okay. Sure, Dr. Abhinay. So then, for this quarter, which is the second quarter, you would expect Thane as well to achieve breakeven on a quarterly basis?

0:11:40 As far as June is concerned, it's 10% margin. Sorry? It's July, right. If the August, September trajectory continues similarly, then it should be a healthy EBITDA margin.

Sure, Dr. Abhinay. You said July, Thane did around INR 21 crores of monthly revenue.

Correct. Versus Q1, if you look at the average, it's around INR 16 crores, against which it did INR 21 crores in July.

Sure, Dr. Abhinay. And then, in terms of, let's say, the 2 Bangalore hospitals as well, given the traction seen at Mahadevapura, so Mahadevapura should likely achieve breakeven in 2Q and Electronic City in third quarter. Would that be a fair assumption?

Mahadevapura already achieved breakeven, Rahul. Even in July, for example, it has done INR 20 crores revenue. So Mahadevapura has now stabilized. It's almost 0 or slightly positive EBITDA margin. Electronic City is where the drag is, which, like we had indicated earlier, towards the end of the year, that also should become 0. Overall, as a cluster, we are aiming for Bangalore cluster to be 0 EBITDA for the full year with no losses. Yes, we need [indiscernible] losses also.

Sure, Dr. Abhinay. And can you talk about -- the way you indicated margins for Kerala as mid-single digit for this year, ramping up to 20%, 22% over next 3, 4 years -- about the Bangalore and the Maharashtra cluster as well in terms of how do you see the margin trajectory in '27 and then over the next 2- to 3-year period. Bangalore, you talked about the neutral margins for the year.

I think both clusters, we should look at a healthy 20% growth on a year-year basis, Rahul. Our key is to first stabilize and make sure that there's no drag in any of these assets. After that, it should -- as long as it's growing at a good 15%, 20%, I think we are happy on the growth of the hospitals.

Okay. And Sachin, can you call out the debt number post this INR 1,100 crore repayment which we have done?

So, as of 31st of March '26, at the start of the financial year, the debt position was INR 3,250 crores, which has reduced to INR 2,570 crores as on 30th June. In fact, it had reduced further by about INR 100 crores in the first week of July because, as I said, we have received the proceeds in the last week of June, and we couldn't pay off some of the loans which we have promised to pay as per the objective in the first week. We could -- able to retire those debts only in the first week of July. So the debt position as of now would be somewhere around INR 2,400 crores.

We take the next question from the line of Kunal from Axis Capital.

Sir, first question is on the Kondapur unit. So I just want to understand the revenue potential from this. This has been a fairly lucrative unit for you, INR 350 crores-plus revenue, INR 100 crores-plus EBITDA. And just wondering if you're making such a big hospital over a year, just want to kind of understand how do you see this unit in the next 3 to 4 years?

Yes. It seems the full potential of the hospital will be around INR 100 crore revenue per month, which is around INR 1,200 crore in revenue. And we should be able to get to that number over the next 4, 5 years.

And what drives this number? Because, I mean, if I were to just have a casual look, I mean, there are a lot of other hospitals also in the area. So, I mean, INR 100 crores, I mean, this might even become the biggest unit or the second biggest unit. So just wondering what's driving this confidence?

You're asking why is that happening?

Yes, sir.

I think there are a lot of clinical programs that we've not been able to add in Kondapur over the last few years because of space constraints. We're solving for that. A lot of new clinical leaders who wanted to join us but we didn't have space, they are joining. So for example, we had no oncology at all in Kondapur. We have not started transplant even now, even in spite of the new hospital. So there's a lot of opportunity to add a lot of new clinical programs and doctors, and we're pretty confident that it will scale up to that number in spite of KIMS having other assets in that geography.

Right. And sir, just comparing, let's say, Mahadevapura trajectory to Thane, Mahadevapura, I believe, started after Thane. It is doing higher revenue run rate versus Thane and has, I think, broken even faster. So what would you attribute the main difference to? Is it because of delay in empanelment in Thane? Or it's just that there are more beds over there and -- or just a bigger success story? Why would this happen?

One key difference between Maharashtra and South is, I think, the South ideology of full-time practice is a lot more easier to get aligned with doctors. As far as Maharashtra -- not just Thane, Nashik or Nagpur in the past, doctors are not fully aligned to having a full-time practice. So it takes time for us to convince them. So they first join us a part-time model. Then they slowly continue to contribute more time in the hospital, and then over a period of time, come to full time. So if you look at Nagpur, when we first acquired, it took us 18 months, 24 months before we could stabilize that unit because initially, those doctors are not fully aligned in terms of having a full-time practice model. But once they get comfort, they see the hospital going in the right direction, all promises are kept, then the traction is quite good. If you look at Nagpur, in the month of July, we've done the highest -- we've done INR 50 crores revenue just from the Nagpur facility. So likewise, Thane has a lot of potential. Maharashtra in such -- in general has a lot of potential. But we are aware that it will be a little slow when compared to any other hospital in South because in South, it's easier to get clinical talent. Talent is available -- number one, talent is available. Number two, ability to attract talent also becomes easier because they are already practicing in other corporate hospitals. And it's easier for them to shift to another hospital versus in Maharashtra, they have to shut their own hospital or their nursing home or their clinic. So that decision to shut their own setup and move to a corporate hospital for long-term growth takes a little time for alignment. But otherwise, potential, I think, is quite strong in Maharashtra, but it will always be a slow growth till the market matures.

Sure. That's helpful. Just one more clarification on one of the points you made on Telangana beds. So operational beds have gone up around 450 on a quarter-on-quarter basis. But occupied beds are like flattish quarter-on-quarter. So what explains this discrepancy?

So that Kondapur beds, in the last 10 days of Q1 is when we've added beds. Those are the 450 incremental beds.

Okay. So that's the reason that there's no increase in occupied beds.

Correct.

We take the next question from the line of Saurabh Kumar from Scientific Investing.

Am I audible, sir?

Yes, you're audible.

Yes. My question is on the capacity utilization. Currently, we are around 50%. And earlier, when we were at 60%-plus utilization, we are clocking 28%-plus EBITDA margin. If you can give some guideline, when do you see us hitting 55%, 60% kind of utilization again? And historically, sir, whenever we have crossed 60%, we have come up with a lot of new beds. And somehow, we have never crossed -- correct me if my memory is wrong, we have never been able to cross 65%. So is that the peak kind of capacity utilization in the hospital business? Because I see some of the smaller hospitals doing 65% to 70% utilization also. So if you can give a color, with a 3- to 5-year framework, how we will be hitting the higher capacity utilization?

Actually, in the bed capacity, the 2,669 beds, if you remove the 450 beds of Kondapur -- 500 beds of Kondapur that just got added and if you remove 200 beds in Secunderabad, which are under renovation, and look at the occupied beds as a percentage of the remaining beds, it is already at 65% kind of occupancy. We'll share that working after the call with you, Saurabh.

Okay, sir. Okay. And sir, the other question is, I think you have guided for 4% to 5% ARPOB growth rate. But historically, we have done much better number like 15%, 16%. Of course, that has to be with also the geographical mix of how hospital has evolved. But even this quarter, we have done a better ARPOB number. So -- and usually, the inflationary ARPOB growth rate is around 6%, 7%. So should we expect 6%, 7% kind of inflationary ARPOB growth rate going forward? Or this is too aggressive?

I think it's too aggressive. 4% to 5% is a good number. Saurabh, we just did the math on the bed capacity. So if you remove the 200 beds in Secunderabad under renovation and new construction and the Kondapur beds, the current cluster is a t 61% occupancy.

Okay. And how do you see, sir, this panning out in -- let's say, by FY '28-end and by FY '30-end?